I think that UKIP starting with a clean slate for MEPs each time is a good thing. It is important to avoid the sinecure element of being an MEP. A turnover of 30-40% each time keeps them hungry, and the job fresh. A weakness of the list system of PR is that if you don't aim for a churn, second, and especially third term MEPs start coasting.
That is a really good effort David. Impressive, especially given the way they have treated you. This party is becoming a bit of a joke I am afraid. Sorry.
It is a real shame Bloom was daft enough to make the 'sluts' comment. It really was a stupid thing to say whither he meant it or not.
If all he had done today was whack Crick with a manifesto and rightly put him in his place I think this evening could be have been very different both for him and for UKIP. Certainly I think the reaction of most people would have been similar to that on here which from almost every corner was one of enjoying a pompous journalist put in his place.
Unfortunately what is done is done and Bloom has shot himself and his party in the foot once too often.
Still wish Nuttall or Congdon were leader though.
I watched Prof Congdon's speech earlier. He was covering some important stuff, but he's not got much in way of presentation skills. Mr Farage is a much better front man in my opinion.
I wasn't thinking that in an ideal world UKIP should dump Farage completely. He has (usually) a superb way of dealing with the press and political opponents. But I don't think his presence as leader is a good thing. Far better he if he would have not stood again at the last leadership election and had developed a Boris type role whilst allowing rather more level heads to take up the reigns of running the party. As it is he so dominates that when he does slip up (as everyone does once in a while) it is as if the whole party has come a cropper with him.
People who were inclined to vote for UKIP wont be bothered at all by today.
It may encourage some people who aren't usually interested in politics to vote for them.
Those who vote for the big three parties will be telling each other how bad it is for UKIP and congratulating each other on how prescient they were in forecasting its demise, but this only reinforces how out of touch they are with the man on the street.
I would have thought most working class people would see todays footage and think Bloom was a character and Crick was a prat.
The issue is more the UKIP reaction rather than the problems. It's always been on the cards that UKIP would get more of a grilling as their vote share grew and it's been pretty clear that UKIP have quite a few skeletons in the wardrobe.
If they tough it out and get better oirganised they can come back but Farage was looking a bit headless chicken, and he has only himself to blame as he sets the tone when he does his cheeky chappy routine and looks surprised when other try to out Farage him. For UKIP it;s time to grow up or head back to the nursery.
I agree AB. The big story today was not Bloom doing his usual idiocies - and in fact potentially doing some good with the imaginative way he reacted to Crick - but the reaction of Farage. As I said earlier he was probably right to dump Bloom after the 'sluts' comment but there was no need to make such a public spectacle of it and do it so badly.
Surprisingly poor judgement from someone who is normally so good at the public side of the job.
It's part of the problem of only having one front man he gets stretched, tired and pressurised. From the bits I saw of Nutall I was quietly impressed as he seemed human, he should be given more of the load.
I doubt this is the killer blow the press claim since it's Friday, the weekend's here and soon enough there will be another EU eruption. But it does show up the UKIP weaknesses and as I noted earlier I wouldn't be confident they could carry a referendum on the current party set up.
The people most offended by UKIP today will be those who would never have voted for them anyway.
Yes. People who were looking for an excuse to be offended by UKIP.
A story becomes a scandal if the public want it to be a scandal. If the public don't want it to be a scandal, it won't be, whatever the talking heads say.
For UKIP supporters, I think negative UKIP coverage is just noise.
With the whip suspended from Godfrey Bloom, UKIP have now lost 38% of the MEPs they had elected in 2009. (That would be like the Conservatives having lost 118 MPs!) UKIP came second in the 2009 elections. They are now fourth in MEP numbers, 3 seats behind the LibDems.
To lose one MEP may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose five looks like carelessness.
Not agreed. 40% churn for MEPs seems about right. It is the sort of job where you'll do most of what you're ever going in your first term. Some will still be working in their second term. but the third term is for unhealthy free-wheeling, except the few who get proper jobs out there. (Are any 'proper jobs'?)
FPT: Mr Miliband has now said the change would be paid for by scrapping a tax break for hedge funds and the Treasury's new shares-for-rights scheme
Hang-on - I thought the Labour line was that the Treasury's shares-for-rights scheme was a complete damp squib and take-up would be risible - so how can there be any savings from scrapping it?
Nobody's doing it for enterprise reasons. It's a handy tax loophole for those who can manipulate these things though.
With the whip suspended from Godfrey Bloom, UKIP have now lost 38% of the MEPs they had elected in 2009. (That would be like the Conservatives having lost 118 MPs!) UKIP came second in the 2009 elections. They are now fourth in MEP numbers, 3 seats behind the LibDems.
To lose one MEP may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose five looks like carelessness.
Not agreed. 40% churn for MEPs seems about right. It is the sort of job where you'll do most of what you're ever going in your first term. Some will still be working in their second term. but the third term is for unhealthy free-wheeling, except the few who get proper jobs out there. (Are any 'proper jobs'?)
Er they don't appear to do anything David. A few jibes at Barroso and van Rompuy, but they don't vote, they don't influence and they don't change legislation our way. Drunken arguments in Strassburg restaurants seems to be their lot.
We're all still waiting for Tim's reactions to the Macbride revelations and Dame tess's assertion that Miliband knew all about it. It's a real puzzle his silence on such a big political story affecting his chums.
Not agreed. 40% churn for MEPs seems about right. It is the sort of job where you'll do most of what you're ever going in your first term. Some will still be working in their second term. but the third term is for unhealthy free-wheeling, except the few who get proper jobs out there. (Are any 'proper jobs'?)
Well, the BNP has managed to lose 50% of its MEPs so far, but that hardly seems like a target to aim for. Most parties don't show anything near this churn. No Labour, LibDem, SNP, PC or Green MEP has defected. One Conservative has.
Vote UKIP, get... well, you just don't know, do you? May end up a Tory, or an independent, or anything.
It is a real shame Bloom was daft enough to make the 'sluts' comment. It really was a stupid thing to say whither he meant it or not.
If all he had done today was whack Crick with a manifesto and rightly put him in his place I think this evening could be have been very different both for him and for UKIP. Certainly I think the reaction of most people would have been similar to that on here which from almost every corner was one of enjoying a pompous journalist put in his place.
Unfortunately what is done is done and Bloom has shot himself and his party in the foot once too often.
Still wish Nuttall or Congdon were leader though.
I watched Prof Congdon's speech earlier. He was covering some important stuff, but he's not got much in way of presentation skills. Mr Farage is a much better front man in my opinion.
I wasn't thinking that in an ideal world UKIP should dump Farage completely. He has (usually) a superb way of dealing with the press and political opponents. But I don't think his presence as leader is a good thing. Far better he if he would have not stood again at the last leadership election and had developed a Boris type role whilst allowing rather more level heads to take up the reigns of running the party. As it is he so dominates that when he does slip up (as everyone does once in a while) it is as if the whole party has come a cropper with him.
@AndyJS They would say that wouldn't they. Great spot. Pure unadultered bullshit from the UK's favourite public service broadcasters, as for Bloom he is a bloody fool, almost in the same class as the media who get worked up about slutgate.
It is a real shame Bloom was daft enough to make the 'sluts' comment. It really was a stupid thing to say whither he meant it or not.
If all he had done today was whack Crick with a manifesto and rightly put him in his place I think this evening could be have been very different both for him and for UKIP. Certainly I think the reaction of most people would have been similar to that on here which from almost every corner was one of enjoying a pompous journalist put in his place.
Unfortunately what is done is done and Bloom has shot himself and his party in the foot once too often.
Still wish Nuttall or Congdon were leader though.
I watched Prof Congdon's speech earlier. He was covering some important stuff, but he's not got much in way of presentation skills. Mr Farage is a much better front man in my opinion.
I wasn't thinking that in an ideal world UKIP should dump Farage completely. He has (usually) a superb way of dealing with the press and political opponents. But I don't think his presence as leader is a good thing. Far better he if he would have not stood again at the last leadership election and had developed a Boris type role whilst allowing rather more level heads to take up the reigns of running the party. As it is he so dominates that when he does slip up (as everyone does once in a while) it is as if the whole party has come a cropper with him.
As I said earlier, at the last leadership election I voted for Tim Congdon who has made such an excellent economic case for the UK leaving the EU. Like some others I have also been impressed with Paul Nuttall but would need to see more of him to make up my mind for sure.
Not agreed. 40% churn for MEPs seems about right. It is the sort of job where you'll do most of what you're ever going in your first term. Some will still be working in their second term. but the third term is for unhealthy free-wheeling, except the few who get proper jobs out there. (Are any 'proper jobs'?)
Well, the BNP has managed to lose 50% of its MEPs so far, but that hardly seems like a target to aim for. Most parties don't show anything near this churn. No Labour, LibDem, SNP, PC or Green MEP has defected. One Conservative has.
Vote UKIP, get... well, you just don't know, do you? May end up a Tory, or an independent, or anything.
Two Conservatives actually. Edward McMillan Scott to the Lib Dems and Roger Helmer to UKIP
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Edit and maybe the tories being the largest party after the Euros as well.
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Well if it doesn't lead to a swingback it will at least stop any more vote switching.
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Well if it doesn't lead to a swingback it will at least stop any more vote switching.
UKIP are sitting about 11 with Yougov. A couple of percent going back to the tories, even temporarily, just might be enough at the moment.
Of course when Ed's abolition of the bedroom tax gets its proper attention all that will change.
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Well if it doesn't lead to a swingback it will at least stop any more vote switching.
UKIP are sitting about 11 with Yougov. A couple of percent going back to the tories, even temporarily, just might be enough at the moment.
Of course when Ed's abolition of the bedroom tax gets its proper attention all that will change.
I doubt it. The Cons need to be 6 ish points ahead. The main issue is the one NPXMP refers to of the Labour vote sitting above 35%. Until that drops you're still looking at a Labour govt or largest party. Cameron's problem remains he has to get more votes and he has no attractive platform for voters outside his southern heartlands.
If notorious dafty Gogsie Broon is the greatest man that Mr McBride has ever met then he really needs to get out a bit more.
McBride confesses that he was ‘sucked in like a concubine at a Roman orgy’ to the ‘dark’ world of politics, which he says encourages ‘vanity, duplicity, greed, hypocrisy and cruelty’.
And don’t forget, the impartial civil servant was handpicked by Gordon Brown for his ‘abilities’. I’m sure the adoration was mutual, they were the worst kind of kindred spirits.
Sucked in like a concubine at a Gordon Brown orgy? Fetch the sick bucket.
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Well if it doesn't lead to a swingback it will at least stop any more vote switching.
UKIP are sitting about 11 with Yougov. A couple of percent going back to the tories, even temporarily, just might be enough at the moment.
Of course when Ed's abolition of the bedroom tax gets its proper attention all that will change.
I doubt it. The Cons need to be 6 ish points ahead. The main issue is the one NPXMP refers to of the Labour vote sitting above 35%. Until that drops you're still looking at a Labour govt or largest party. Cameron's problem remains he has to get more votes and he has no attractive platform for voters outside his southern heartlands.
Sorry, I meant for the yougov lead bet. I agree that the tories have got a long way to go yet even to be the largest party. The Lib Dem conference and micro bounce was unhelpful in that regard.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
The media really are obsessed with publishing photos of Farage looking like a braying horse, aren't they. If they're trying to discredit him in this way I think it's probably not going to have any effect.
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Well if it doesn't lead to a swingback it will at least stop any more voteswitching.
UKIP are sitting about 11 with Yougov. A couple of percent going back to the tories, even temporarily, just might be enough at the moment.
Of course when Ed's abolition of the bedroom tax gets its proper attention all that will change.
I doubt it. The Cons need to be 6 ish points ahead. The main issue is the one NPXMP refers to of the Labour vote sitting above 35%. Until that drops you're still looking at a Labour govt or largest party. Cameron's problem remains he has to get more votes and he has no attractive platform for voters outside his southern heartlands.
Sorry, I meant for the yougov lead bet. I agree that the tories have got a long way to go yet even to be the largest party. The Lib Dem conference and micro bounce was unhelpful in that regard.
Ah I see where you're coming from. Well in that case it's been a good week for Cameron. If the LDs pull a few points back off labour post Conference and McBride and the Cons pull a couple of points back from UKIP when the dust settles Lab\Con will be at parity consistently.
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
I understand this, I understand that people who were born into humble beginnings and worked hard, like their parents told them to do were wrong, and 'queer', as labelled by people at school. I understand that people like us should give up everything to help those less fortunate, and do with less (since we spend all the time at work, there's no need for luxuries like TVs in every room, and time to spend on games).
I understand this, I understand that people who were born into humble beginnings and worked hard, like their parents told them to do were wrong, and 'queer', as labelled by people at school. I understand that people like us should give up everything to help those less fortunate, and do with less (since we spend all the time at work, there's no need for luxuries like TVs in every room, and time to spend on games).
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
I understand this, I understand that people who were born into humble beginnings and worked hard, like their parents told them to do were wrong, and 'queer', as labelled by people at school. I understand that people like us should give up everything to help those less fortunate, and do with less (since we spend all the time at work, there's no need for luxuries like TVs in every room, and time to spend on games).
How do I explain this to the children?
In reply to your bedroom tax question. I would like to be able to explain to the kids why we should do with less, when I'm away at work all the time, and other people who do less have more than us. I try to explain the concept of fairness, e.g. if we have a bit less, and you don't see me then we're all equal, but they don't get it, and neither do I.
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
A family with two young kids in a three bedroomed house are defined as having a spare room, I don't think you've been following this have you
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
Without ever wanting to be defending Damian McBride but arent we in danger of getting a bit prissy here. John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis ... I cant see them as innocent victims of a nasty game they didnt want to play.
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
1 million people in receipt of housing benefit are in low paid jobs. I imagine quite a few have arduous jobs. The policy has been costed and the savings the government claimed for the bedroom tax have been overinflated.
I understand this, I understand that people who were born into humble beginnings and worked hard, like their parents told them to do were wrong, and 'queer', as labelled by people at school. I understand that people like us should give up everything to help those less fortunate, and do with less (since we spend all the time at work, there's no need for luxuries like TVs in every room, and time to spend on games).
How do I explain this to the children?
In reply to your bedroom tax question. I would like to be able to explain to the kids why we should do with less, when I'm away at work all the time, and other people who do less have more than us. I try to explain the concept of fairness, e.g. if we have a bit less, and you don't see me then we're all equal, but they don't get it, and neither do I.
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
A family with two young kids in a three bedroomed house are defined as having a spare room, I don't think you've been following this have you
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
Without ever wanting to be defending Damian McBride but arent we in danger of getting a bit prissy here. John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis ... I cant see them as innocent victims of a nasty game they didnt want to play.
1 million people in receipt of housing benefit are in low paid jobs. I imagine quite a few have arduous jobs. The policy has been costed and the savings the government claimed for the bedroom tax have been overinflated.
Sounds like a polite way of saying 'tough, you have to pay the tax, other people will get the benefit.'
Of course, as a politician, it wouldn't be framed that way, but I understand.
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
Without ever wanting to be defending Damian McBride but arent we in danger of getting a bit prissy here. John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis ... I cant see them as innocent victims of a nasty game they didnt want to play.
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
Without ever wanting to be defending Damian McBride but arent we in danger of getting a bit prissy here. John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis ... I cant see them as innocent victims of a nasty game they didnt want to play.
** cough** red rag ** cough **
I was talking specifically about the quote about questions in relation to "malicious briefing" against Brown's rivals.
Saturday's Daily Mail contains 6 pages of coverage of @DPMcBride's memoirs - here's a flavour #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/il0jnH1qvO nicksutton
Saturday's Daily Mail contains 6 pages of coverage of @DPMcBride's memoirs - here's a flavour #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/il0jnH1qvO nicksutton
I understand this, I understand that people who were born into humble beginnings and worked hard, like their parents told them to do were wrong, and 'queer', as labelled by people at school. I understand that people like us should give up everything to help those less fortunate, and do with less (since we spend all the time at work, there's no need for luxuries like TVs in every room, and time to spend on games).
How do I explain this to the children?
In reply to your bedroom tax question. I would like to be able to explain to the kids why we should do with less, when I'm away at work all the time, and other people who do less have more than us. I try to explain the concept of fairness, e.g. if we have a bit less, and you don't see me then we're all equal, but they don't get it, and neither do I.
It's not just a saving in Housing Benefit payments.
"Some figures I have seen from Barnet Council suggest the impact of the policy in causing people to switch from welfare to work has already been very significant.
If only 10 per cent of the overall 660,000 households affected have someone who switches into work as a result of this change, then the savings for the taxpayer become much greater than the £540 million estimated. Housing Benefit averages around £75 a week, JSA is another £71.70 a week. If 66,000 people are off these benefits then the taxpayer saves another half billion or so. Then there is the tax revenue that is being paid as a result of them working.
It's early days. It's only Barnet. Perhaps the figure will end up being below 10 per cent nationally - I suspect it will be higher."
Interesting. After all this time one of the big boys comes out to play:
'Scottish independence: Call for pro-Union devolution plan'
The Shadow Foreign Secretary added: "As a Scottish Labour MP I welcome the response from both the Scottish Conservatives and Scottish Liberal Democrats supporting the idea of a National Convention that I set out back in March.
"And so I hope that such a National Convention could become a shared commitment - by those parties who believe that Scotland's better future lies within the United Kingdom.
"It would be both an expression of our patriotism and pride in Scotland, and a mechanism by which to translate our sense of possibility for post-2014 Scotland into practical policies."
In that context, Mr Alexander said he believed an agreed approach by the parties committed to the Union would be a "tangible answer" to the question of what happens if Scotland votes No to independence.
Earlier, he told the BBC's Good Morning Scotland programme: "If there is one certainty it is that after the issue of the independence question is resolved next September there will be discussions about how devolution can be improved.
Re: AfD: "Opinion polls have them at around 5 per cent, but pollsters say the total on Monday could be higher. Many who might vote for them will not say so, fearing the label of extremists."
Mr Balls insists that he had no knowledge of “three hideous smears” against John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis and claims that he resisted attempts by Mr Brown to undermine Alistair Darling, then Chancellor.
Asked if he was aware that Mr McBride was briefing against ministers, Mr Balls said: “No, I didn’t know. He was a law unto himself, it now seems.”
In his book the spin doctor details a close relationship with the Shadow Chancellor. He relates feeding Mr Balls documents damaging to the Conservatives and that Mr Brown asked him to deliver a message to his former protégé during the Labour leadership contest. For his part Mr Balls now all but disowns the man who masterminded the press operation as the Chancellor saw off rivals and finally won the keys to No 10.
He says that, during the time of the briefings to which Mr McBride has confessed, he had left Mr Brown’s immediate inner circle. “During that period did we meet? Almost never. I saw him sometimes in Downing Street. I would get advice but on a personal level at that time I was consumed by other things.”
Bloom is punk rocker. The Johnny Rotten of politics. And the British love a bit of counter-culture. Hilarious vignette and great to see the press getting a kicking. All good for Ukip in the end I think.
A simple solution to both "spare room subsidy" and housing shortage would be to allow tennants to let their spare bedroom, provided that they stayed in residence themselves.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
In the Scottish town in which I was born there are hardly any 1 bedroom flats. In a place where the cost of land is the square root of bugger all, it has been the policy for years to build 2/3 bedroom properties so that people did not have to move if they got married or their families grew in size.
The furore over Spare Room Subsidy/Bedroom Tax is a microcosm of all that is wrong with politics and political reporting.
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
The rules were changed so they can do precisely that.
Essentially they receive a reduced benefit, but in return can keep the rental income. Seems pretty sensible as an approach
Don't get to far ahead of your self scott me lad ;-)
As Ed Miliband prepares to open a party conference dedicated to highlighting the crisis in living standards, Labour faces mixed polling showing it is the party most blamed for the fall in living standards, but also the party deemed to have the best policies to tackle the crisis
A family with two young kids in a three bedroomed house are defined as having a spare room, I don't think you've been following this have you
I shared a bedroom with my brother until the age of about 10. Nothing wrong with that - my parents wanted a spare room that my Dad used as a home office.
Don't get to far ahead of your self scott me lad ;-)
As Ed Miliband prepares to open a party conference dedicated to highlighting the crisis in living standards, Labour faces mixed polling showing it is the party most blamed for the fall in living standards, but also the party deemed to have the best policies to tackle the crisis
Don't get to far ahead of your self scott me lad ;-)
As Ed Miliband prepares to open a party conference dedicated to highlighting the crisis in living standards, Labour faces mixed polling showing it is the party most blamed for the fall in living standards, but also the party deemed to have the best policies to tackle the crisis
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
Without ever wanting to be defending Damian McBride but arent we in danger of getting a bit prissy here. John Reid, Charles Clarke and Ivan Lewis ... I cant see them as innocent victims of a nasty game they didnt want to play.
For all the crocodile tears, it was intra-Labour stuff. McBride vs Reid - Dog attacks dog !
Comments
david_kendrick1 said:
I think that UKIP starting with a clean slate for MEPs each time is a good thing. It is important to avoid the sinecure element of being an MEP. A turnover of 30-40% each time keeps them hungry, and the job fresh. A weakness of the list system of PR is that if you don't aim for a churn, second, and especially third term MEPs start coasting.
That is a really good effort David. Impressive, especially given the way they have treated you.
This party is becoming a bit of a joke I am afraid. Sorry.
From the bits I saw of Nutall I was quietly impressed as he seemed human, he should be given more of the load.
I doubt this is the killer blow the press claim since it's Friday, the weekend's here and soon enough there will be another EU eruption. But it does show up the UKIP weaknesses and as I noted earlier I wouldn't be confident they could carry a referendum on the current party set up.
A story becomes a scandal if the public want it to be a scandal. If the public don't want it to be a scandal, it won't be, whatever the talking heads say.
For UKIP supporters, I think negative UKIP coverage is just noise.
Not agreed. 40% churn for MEPs seems about right. It is the sort of job where you'll do most of what you're ever going in your first term. Some will still be working in their second term. but the third term is for unhealthy free-wheeling, except the few who get proper jobs out there. (Are any 'proper jobs'?)
Vote UKIP, get... well, you just don't know, do you? May end up a Tory, or an independent, or anything.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/did-ed-miliband-know-what-gordon-browns-spin-doctor-damian-mcbride-was-up-to-8830327.html
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/ed-miliband-damian-mcbride-smears-jowell
Come on tim whaddya say???
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10324527/Selfish-Godfrey-Blooms-sluts-slur-has-killed-Ukip-conference-says-Nigel-Farage.html
Also the party of the rabid attack dog and smearer too.
whats not to like?
Also the party of the rabid attack dog and smearer too.
whats not to like?
How long before an enterprising journalist works out how many spare bedrooms Labours' millionaire front bench have between them?
maybe they should ask Frank Dobson.
http://zmainvestments.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tombstone.jpg
It is of course inevitable that these things will not have nearly as big an effect on peoples' voting intentions as we tend to assume on here but have the odds on a tory yougov lead before the end of the year just changed?
Edit and maybe the tories being the largest party after the Euros as well.
Of course when Ed's abolition of the bedroom tax gets its proper attention all that will change.
A letter sent to the mayor's housing adviser by Westminster council warns that under Johnson's plans to set "affordable rent" levels on planned new social homes in the capital at 80% of market rates, households would have to earn £58,000 a year to afford a one-bedroom flat, and £109,000 a year for a three-bedroom house.
The letter, seen by the Guardian, warns that unless the council is given the power to set its own, much lower, rent levels low and middle income residents would no longer be able to afford to live in the area, threatening the diverse social mix of the borough.
John Prescott criticising Ed for not having any ideas. I mean, ouch. For a middle class intellectual can things get much worse?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/100237163/by-stripping-godfrey-bloom-of-the-whip-nigel-farage-shot-himself-in-the-foot/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-hails-new-political-force-ukip-while-gaffeprone-godfrey-bloom-delivers-a-fresh-political-farce-8830378.html
It is a policy that will help a lot of families and one that will financially penalise some families. It is not some great evil, or some plot by Tories to hurt the poor. It is a imperfect policy designed with good intention to fix an imperfect situation.
Labour know this. Conservatives know this. Lib Dems know this. Journalists know this.
Yet it's another classic case of the implications of the policy being lost in the polarising hoohah of politics. Tories evil, hurting the poor. Labour party of shirkers, loving benefits. Blah blah blah.
Amidst it all are families with disabled people in them, really struggling. And the irony is that every MP in parliament wants to help those people.
Not that you'd ever believe it if you follow politics.
ps - Ed Miliband will regret agreeing to restore the benefits. The Tories were being bashed by talk of 'bedroom taxes', without the policy being known by the public. Ed Miliband has now invited a backlash. He would've been better served letting the Tories be bashed with it till the election.
@SkyNews: INDEPENDENT FRONT PAGE: "Bedroom tax crisis: Labour commits to abolition" #skypapers http://t.co/1mKsB1VJ75
CDU/CSU: 39%
SPD: 26%
Green: 9%
Linke: 9%
FDP: 6%
AfD: 4%
Others: 7%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/unfortunate-bbc-moustache-for-nigel-farage-8829452.html
CDU/CSU: 39.50%
SPD: 26.71%
Green: 9.43%
Left: 8.79%
FDP: 5.43%
AfD: 3.86%
Others: 6.29%
CDU/CSU + FDP: 44.93%
SPD + Green + Left: 44.93%
AfD are averaging 4.3% with the 5 polls conducted during the last week.
No one needs to move, rooms used productively, someone else no longer homeless. Sorted. Next!
How do I explain this to the children?
Are you suggesting the homeless are paedophiles?
EDIT: Is this part of a coordinated briefing against Ed Balls in light of the McBride allegations?
Why did we tolerate this putrid nonsense?
New Labour achieved virtually nothing, but its toxic feuding left a stain on a great democracy
"There will be questions for the Eds Miliband and Balls, those Brownite consiglieri, about their knowledge of (and involvement in) the destruction, by malicious briefing, of their master’s rivals. "
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21586589-last-week-campaign-politicians-are-focusing-tactics-final-push
Of course, as a politician, it wouldn't be framed that way, but I understand.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
BBC banging on about Bloom Sluts and Farage losing it. No atrocities from Syria today.
"Some figures I have seen from Barnet Council suggest the impact of the policy in causing people to switch from welfare to work has already been very significant.
If only 10 per cent of the overall 660,000 households affected have someone who switches into work as a result of this change, then the savings for the taxpayer become much greater than the £540 million estimated. Housing Benefit averages around £75 a week, JSA is another £71.70 a week. If 66,000 people are off these benefits then the taxpayer saves another half billion or so. Then there is the tax revenue that is being paid as a result of them working.
It's early days. It's only Barnet. Perhaps the figure will end up being below 10 per cent nationally - I suspect it will be higher."
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/localgovernment/2013/09/spare-room-subsidy-cut-saving-for-more-than-thought-as-many-come-off-benefits-altogether.html
'Scottish independence: Call for pro-Union devolution plan'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10323684/Ukip-conference-Journalist-charged-with-assault-after-attack-at-young-Ukip-party.html
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/09/godfrey-bloom-hits-michael-crick-uses-word-sluts
Re: AfD: "Opinion polls have them at around 5 per cent, but pollsters say the total on Monday could be higher. Many who might vote for them will not say so, fearing the label of extremists."
Ed Balls was part of the gang, but didn't know about all the beastly stuff.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/conference/article3875267.ece
Labour: people on £60k aren't rich
https://twitter.com/benedictbrogan/status/381166250203676672/photo/1
@patrickwintour: Labour blamed for fall in living standards, poll finds http://t.co/ATQPlH05Jp
Essentially they receive a reduced benefit, but in return can keep the rental income. Seems pretty sensible as an approach
"Has UKIP lost the plot?"
"not a scene from a farce or a sitcom...but today's UKIP party conference..."
As Ed Miliband prepares to open a party conference dedicated to highlighting the crisis in living standards, Labour faces mixed polling showing it is the party most blamed for the fall in living standards, but also the party deemed to have the best policies to tackle the crisis
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/labour-fall-living-standards-poll
Great stuff from Reeves.
No one died !