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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Michael Gove looks as though he has his eye on Theresa’s job

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Meeks,

    Knowing me, Knowing EU,
    this time we're through

    Breaking up is never easy, I know
    but I have to go

    [I do, so I'm off now].
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,438
    edited April 2018
    We almost had a King Louis back in 1216. If it had not been for William Marshall and the death of King John....
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    edited April 2018
    A case can be made for ABBA as *the* soundtrack to the European Union.

    Voulez-vous
    Chiquitita
    Mamma-Mia!

    Plus Waterloo, of course, which commemorates the end of the Napoleonic Era and the rise of the Age of Nationalism which was to resolve, though the carnage of war, into today’s Union.

    Fernando, too, is the Remainer’s anthem:

    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though we never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029

    A case can be made for ABBA as *the* soundtrack to the European Union.

    Not while Kraftwerk exists. They actually have a track titled Europa Endlos. It’s enough to make JRM soil his hessian underpants.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited April 2018
    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
    Presidents Trump and Macron act more regally than the Queen!
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    Especially since his own great great great grandfather was Prince Louis of Battenberg, a German prince and First Sea Lord for the UK in the run up to WW1
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Louis_of_Battenberg
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    edited April 2018
    marke09 said:


    Mike Smithson
    @MSmithsonPB
    23m23 minutes ago

    Who do you think is mainly responsible for the difficulties faced by "Windrush generation" immigrants? YouGov Apr 25 '18

    Theresa May 22%
    Amber Rudd 3%
    Home Office officials 25%
    Last LAB govt 13%
    None 3%
    DK 33%

    Theresa May got an undeserved hospital pass. The silver lining is that as the problem won't go away and is now getting attention, they will have to tackle some of the root problems of our Kafka-esque by design immigration system
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    For those who reckon that Gove is unpopular with the public its worth bearing in mind he co-led a campaign that very unexpectedly won a majority of the public's backing. No mean feat.

    They were voting to restore sovereignty and end free movement not to make Gove PM and Boris provided the charisma, Gove the brains behind the scenes
    Gove has always struck me as a Keith Joseph type figure behind a more charismatic front man/woman.
    In his case Boris
    ... with a dagger in the Newsroom.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
    I trust you kept these sentiments to yourself when you made the oath of allegiance...
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    The Tories should just have a broad leadership contest over a long time period with lots of debates and let the best person win. Brown, Miliband and May all show the danger of keeping it to a handful of more senior recognised figures. The biggest talents are of the next generation: Stewart, Tugendhat, Mercer, Mordaunt and Raab. Give them a chance to shine and award it to the one who most fulfils their promise.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
    The man that abolished the republic to bring in the Second Empire? He is as much of a disgrace to republicanism as his uncle.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368

    So a new ABBA album & Mamma Mia 2 out on the next few months and Liverpool on course to win the champions league, 2018 might be the best year ever.

    Hadn't seen about the new Abba album. Is it all 4 of them with new songs?
    It is all four of them.

    https://twitter.com/jrawson/status/989830946793967616
    Wow!
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    RoyalBlue said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
    I trust you kept these sentiments to yourself when you made the oath of allegiance...
    probably kept the shilling (or tenner by then) also.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited April 2018
    I always think of the US pre-wall street opening program on CNBC https://www.cnbc.com/squawk-box-us/ whenever Squawk/skwawk box is mentioned. I was wondering for ages what people were on about and how a US market news show seemed to be the source of much left wing copy.

    CA I always take on first glance to be refferring to the state (95% of the time it is now Cambridge Analytica), and AWS for the Amazon widgetmybob rather than 'All women shortlist' are another couple that annoy me slightly.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    I would rather go back into the European Union than be forced to hear ABBA's head-drilling pop eurotrash for months on end. Can we agree a deal?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    I'm looking forward to the day when Prince Louis gets given the title Duke of Vuitton
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Alot of boroughs count Friday in London, but here are the key ones (Well for my betting slips at any rate)

    Wandsworth 03:00
    Barnet 04:00
    Sutton 05:00
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Hmm. The French trying to claim they own the royal 'Louis' after they guillotined the specific royal and axed the institution as a whole is a mound of merde.

    The name has republican credentials too. The president of the Second Republic was Louis Napoleon as memorably depicted by Marx in the 18th Brumaire. Anyway, fuck the royal family, it’s time for a republic of our own.
    Presidents Trump and Macron act more regally than the Queen!
    I haven’t heard Macron shout “Off with his head!”.
    Trump on the other hand.......
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    New Kipper leader talking nonsense:

    "we are confident we can retain our seats and also win a few more in some unusual places like Rochdale"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43920556
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    New Kipper leader talking nonsense:

    "we are confident we can retain our seats and also win a few more in some unusual places like Rochdale"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43920556

    I had the option of voting UKIP in my ward. Given that it must be close to the most Remainian ward in the entire country, that did strike me as a curious use of limited manpower.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
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    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.

    Liam Fox’s incompetence saves us all.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Leaving aside the content, that is so abysmally written that it's virtually unreadable. I'm reminded of why I hardly ever look at the BBC website any more. They seem to have made a conscious decision to write in randomly-ordered staccato half-sentences.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    A case can be made for ABBA as *the* soundtrack to the European Union.

    Voulez-vous
    Chiquitita
    Mamma-Mia!

    Plus Waterloo, of course, which commemorates the end of the Napoleonic Era and the rise of the Age of Nationalism which was to resolve, though the carnage of war, into today’s Union.

    Fernando, too, is the Remainer’s anthem:

    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though we never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando

    The SPINNER takes it all!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,138

    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.
    It gives a whole new meaning to taking English leave. We announce loudly at 8pm that we're off, and then we're still there at 5 in the morning.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    On topic - Gove reminds me of Keith Joseph - intellectual heft, sans presentation skills - who is Gove's Maggie? Hunt?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    New Kipper leader talking nonsense:

    "we are confident we can retain our seats and also win a few more in some unusual places like Rochdale"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43920556

    I had the option of voting UKIP in my ward. Given that it must be close to the most Remainian ward in the entire country, that did strike me as a curious use of limited manpower.
    Don't have ward-level data, but Lambeth was 78.6% remain, followed by Hackney (78.5), Haringey (75.6), The City (75.3) and Islington (75.2).
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913
    #ABBA :open_mouth:
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,138

    On topic - Gove reminds me of Keith Joseph - intellectual heft, sans presentation skills - who is Gove's Maggie? Hunt?

    image
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    On topic - Gove reminds me of Keith Joseph - intellectual heft, sans presentation skills - who is Gove's Maggie? Hunt?

    image
    Yes. we know you lost to a bus. Says more about you than the bus, surely?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited April 2018
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548

    A case can be made for ABBA as *the* soundtrack to the European Union.

    Voulez-vous
    Chiquitita
    Mamma-Mia!

    Plus Waterloo, of course, which commemorates the end of the Napoleonic Era and the rise of the Age of Nationalism which was to resolve, though the carnage of war, into today’s Union.

    Fernando, too, is the Remainer’s anthem:

    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though we never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando

    The SPINNER takes it all!
    Gimme gimme gimme.....a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies ...after midnight.....on March 31st 2019?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.

    Liam Fox’s incompetence saves us all.
    We'll call it the "Bustoms Union". (With apologies to Monty Python's "North Minehead By-Election".)
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,323

    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.

    Liam Fox’s incompetence saves us all.
    I'm beginning to think Theresa is a very clever arch-Remainer. She appointed Liam on purpose, knowing he'd mess it up. So without any hint of trade deals, the Brexit Ultras are neutered, having to either suck up the EU Customs Union and vassal statehood or endorse economic collapse. They're screwed.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.

    Liam Fox’s incompetence saves us all.
    I'm beginning to think Theresa is a very clever arch-Remainer. She appointed Liam on purpose, knowing he'd mess it up. So without any hint of trade deals, the Brexit Ultras are neutered, having to either suck up the EU Customs Union and vassal statehood or endorse economic collapse. They're screwed.
    The longer nothing happens, the longer we don't make our position clear, the more likely the status quo will persist. I don't think even the brex-o-loons would force her to resign if the only available or possible option by that time was to stay in the CU and perhaps even the SM.

    As I mentioned yesterday, Peter Lilley at a conference said that an FTA with the EU is less likely than people think. So if there is not one, would JRM really force a change of leadership when a substantial number of Cons MPs are remainers and the entire Lab party would surely vote for CU/SM if it meant a possible shot at defeating the govt?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited April 2018
    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,138

    On topic - Gove reminds me of Keith Joseph - intellectual heft, sans presentation skills - who is Gove's Maggie? Hunt?

    image
    Yes. we know you lost to a bus. Says more about you than the bus, surely?
    I was suggesting Gove's Maggie could be Penny Mordaunt.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    I hope one of the new ABBA songs is called 'Trafalgar'. Waterloo needs a sequel.

    Yebbut Trafalgar happened ten years before Waterloo.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    New Kipper leader talking nonsense:

    "we are confident we can retain our seats and also win a few more in some unusual places like Rochdale"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43920556

    I had the option of voting UKIP in my ward. Given that it must be close to the most Remainian ward in the entire country, that did strike me as a curious use of limited manpower.
    Don't have ward-level data, but Lambeth was 78.6% remain, followed by Hackney (78.5), Haringey (75.6), The City (75.3) and Islington (75.2).
    Forgot Foyle in NI was 78.3% Remain.
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    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?
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    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Ooh, Amber lied to Parliament?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    On topic - Gove reminds me of Keith Joseph - intellectual heft, sans presentation skills - who is Gove's Maggie? Hunt?

    Amber Rudd. A Rudd/Gove ticket was mooted in the Standard, which presumably has good links to the party.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,323
    Wow. Is this a smoking gun?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/27/amber-rudd-was-told-about-migrant-removal-targets-leak-reveals

    Presumably it was leaked by Theresa's people - throw Amber to the wolves but leave Theresa unsullied.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    It was known Trump was meeting Angela Merkel next, if that is the question.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Is there no respect for anything marked 'private' in the civil service ?
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,800

    Wow. Is this a smoking gun?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/27/amber-rudd-was-told-about-migrant-removal-targets-leak-reveals

    Presumably it was leaked by Theresa's people - throw Amber to the wolves but leave Theresa unsullied.

    What do you think?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    I hope one of the new ABBA songs is called 'Trafalgar'. Waterloo needs a sequel.

    Yebbut Trafalgar happened ten years before Waterloo.
    "Mers-el-Kebir"?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    rpjs said:

    I hope one of the new ABBA songs is called 'Trafalgar'. Waterloo needs a sequel.

    Yebbut Trafalgar happened ten years before Waterloo.
    "Mers-el-Kebir"?
    Balaclava was the same century at least.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Gove has pissed off too many people to become Tory Leader.

    Has he...?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913
    This has to be the end of Amber now!
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Will the Home Office be Rudd-erless?

    Annoyingly, I decided against backing Ricciardo to be top 3 in FP2 on the basis that Ferrari were sandbagging. Humbug!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    New Kipper leader talking nonsense:

    "we are confident we can retain our seats and also win a few more in some unusual places like Rochdale"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43920556

    I had the option of voting UKIP in my ward. Given that it must be close to the most Remainian ward in the entire country, that did strike me as a curious use of limited manpower.
    Don't have ward-level data, but Lambeth was 78.6% remain, followed by Hackney (78.5), Haringey (75.6), The City (75.3) and Islington (75.2).
    There must be some wards where the Remain percentage reached 90%, perhaps Oval, Clerkenwell, Muswell Hill, Brixton Hill?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    I did call Rudd a bungler a few days ago.

    She appears to have misled parliament.
    She has to go now.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Shadsy has Amber 2/1 fav; Jeremy Hunt of the undeclared property empire is 16/1.
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    fitalass said:

    Gove has pissed off too many people to become Tory Leader.

    Has he...?
    Yes. Ben Wallace wanted to cut off Gove’s penis and when Dave goes hunting he names his targets after Gove.

    I could list a few more and I’ve not even mentioned Boris.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    GIN1138 said:

    This has to be the end of Amber now!

    But it’s Friday. Plenty of time for positive spin on her behalf before Monday. However, I admit it could easily work the other way.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Prince Louis (did they think about how the tabloids will abbreviate that name?) -- what was the story around the presumed insider who stuck £5,000 on Arthur?
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    Prince Louis (did they think about how the tabloids will abbreviate that name?) -- what was the story around the presumed insider who stuck £5,000 on Arthur?

    http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-27/has-the-royal-familys-it-department-given-the-royal-baby-name-away/
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Shadsy also goes 2/1 against Trump and Kim for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    fitalass said:

    Gove has pissed off too many people to become Tory Leader.

    Has he...?
    Yes. Ben Wallace wanted to cut off Gove’s penis and when Dave goes hunting he names his targets after Gove.

    I could list a few more and I’ve not even mentioned Boris.
    There are questions as to whether Gove's methods would readily transfer from ministerial office to No 10. i could see it going either way and it'd be a bit of a shot in the dark. On the other hand, he clearly has a vision of what he wants society to look like and could develop plans to put that in place. MPs will like having a leader who wants to lead for the sake of doing something rather than being something. People will forgive being pissed off by someone if there was some kind of worthwhile cause behind it.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited April 2018

    Shadsy also goes 2/1 against Trump and Kim for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    I like his almost 6-4 (29-20) with boost for Wandsworth/Westminster Tory control.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    GIN1138 said:

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
    I really don't think cabinet ministers read every word of every 6-page memo which passes through their department.

    The 2/1 is a fantastic bet... for Shadsy.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    rpjs said:

    I hope one of the new ABBA songs is called 'Trafalgar'. Waterloo needs a sequel.

    Yebbut Trafalgar happened ten years before Waterloo.
    "Mers-el-Kebir"?
    Balaclava was the same century at least.
    Stalingrad scans.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

    Surely if you accuse one of your own party's MPs of conspiring with the right wing press, you need to provide evidence to support that charge, or else you will be accused of bringing the party into disrepute.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

    You seem quite obsessed with the colour of Marc Wadsworth's skin.

    Would it be OK if he were a white 'anti racist campaigner', or it were the reputation of an innocent white man at stake?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    OMG PB is about to become an ABBA lyric dance off.

    I've been dreaming of this for years.

    My whole world is falling, going crazy
    There is no escaping now, I'm cracking up...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913

    GIN1138 said:

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
    I really don't think cabinet ministers read every word of every 6-page memo which passes through their department.

    "We were gobsmacked by what she said, and that she stuck to her guns,” a Home Office source told the Guardian. “It is inconceivable that Amber Rudd did not know about the targets.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/27/amber-rudd-was-told-about-migrant-removal-targets-leak-reveals
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    edited April 2018

    GIN1138 said:

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
    I really don't think cabinet ministers read every word of every 6-page memo which passes through their department...
    You would think when they're about to give evidence to a select committee, they might just check a few pertinent facts ?

    Or should have her evidence have been: "I've remained deliberately ignorant about the administration of deportations" ?

    (Though, to be fair, you are PB's foremost Tory exponent of defending the indefensible in a reasonable manner...)
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Amber Rudd makes far too convenient a scapegoat and this gives far too convenient a pretext. The impulse for Theresa May to withdraw love and support must be super-strong right now.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    edited April 2018
    Mr. B, do you think you're a banana tree?

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Meeks, indeed, although May is about as decisive as a cabbage.

    Still, her over-the-top sacking of Osborne does indicate she is (was?) capable of such.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913
    When TSE does a thread header on who is going to replace Ms. Rudd can he get "Winner Takes It All" into the title? :D
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2018
    Nigelb said:

    (Though, to be fair, you are PB's foremost Tory exponent of defending the indefensible in a reasonable manner...)

    Actually I also defended Labour ministers under the Brown government. I very strongly dislike accusations of lying or dishonesty which are not well-founded.

    Edit: In this particular case, it's certainly awkward for Amber Rudd. But 2/1 is much too short.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058

    GIN1138 said:

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
    I really don't think cabinet ministers read every word of every 6-page memo which passes through their department.

    The 2/1 is a fantastic bet... for Shadsy.
    One or other of her or Brandon Lewis surely read it. I know Lewis has moved on, but could be that he’s leaving her hanging. Surely, surely one of her senior officials could/should have had a quick word before she dug as deep as she has.
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    Nigelb said:
    I think she is now in a very precarious position and resigning may well be her only option.

    In this event it gives TM an opportunity to bring someone new into cabinet.

    Overall I think Amber has been poor anyway, maybe not enough attention to detail or so much attention to security and policing matters that immigration fell between the stools
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited April 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Latest story suggests rudd could be out I reckon... What are her odds?

    I did tip her at 33/1.
    Now 2/1, which is probably about right in current circumstances. I'm not sure Labour has the ability to hit the back of the net despite only having the keeper to beat.
    This memo has to be the end. Either

    1. She's lied to Parliament.

    2. She didn't even bother to read the memo for her own department.

    Either way you'd think she's got to be toast.
    I really don't think cabinet ministers read every word of every 6-page memo which passes through their department.

    "We were gobsmacked by what she said, and that she stuck to her guns,” a Home Office source told the Guardian. “It is inconceivable that Amber Rudd did not know about the targets.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/27/amber-rudd-was-told-about-migrant-removal-targets-leak-reveals
    You are Home Secretary. You have been shown something, your civil servants have discussed it with you.

    With all this incontrovertibly so, you then go out and lie to Parliament. Is that really rational?

    There is bound to be some far more cock-up rather than conspiracy explanation of this.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

    You seem quite obsessed with the colour of Marc Wadsworth's skin.

    Would it be OK if he were a white 'anti racist campaigner', or it were the reputation of an innocent white man at stake?
    I wonder if there would have been such a baying lynch mob at hands were it not such an impressive black anti racism campaigner. Just as we can question Marc because his incident upset Ruth who is Jewish we can question the actions of those acting against Marc who is Black.

    There is no victim hierarchy, we cannot condemn someone black for the sake of someone Jewish or sacrifice someone Jewish for the sake of someone Black. If people seem to be targeting someone Jewish questions should be asked as they rightly have done in the Labour party. That doesn't mean we can take our eye of the ball though, if people are ganging up on and smearing a black anti racist campaigner then questions have to be asked as well.

    It is all well and good being extra woke about the racism that suits your political agenda but it is important to equally apply that to racism which doesn't.

    @Sean_F

    If simply bringing the party into disrepute is the charge then quite frankly Labour could kick out plenty of the anti Corbyn Labour members as well, I suspect we won't be seeing that happening though. Also he said working not conspiring.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913
    edited April 2018



    Overall I think Amber has been poor anyway, maybe not enough attention to detail or so much attention to security and policing matters that immigration fell between the stools

    I think Amber has a LOT of allies - Remember how Cameron and Osborne sent her out to nail Boris in the referendum debate + How she stood in for Theresa in the leaders debates last year (while Mrs May cowered behind the settee)

    However enough is enough. She's got to go.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    ...
    It is all well and good being extra woke about the racism that suits your political agenda but it is important to equally apply that to racism which doesn't.
    ....

    You hit the nail on the head there. That is precisely the criticism of Jeremy Corbyn and his circle.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    SAVE AMBER :(
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Sean_F said:

    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

    Surely if you accuse one of your own party's MPs of conspiring with the right wing press, you need to provide evidence to support that charge, or else you will be accused of bringing the party into disrepute.
    That seems the reason he has been expelled not anti - semitism , is that correct.?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,913
    edited April 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    SAVE AMBER :(

    #SaveAmber ? :D
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited April 2018
    GIN1138 said:



    Overall I think Amber has been poor anyway, maybe not enough attention to detail or so much attention to security and policing matters that immigration fell between the stools

    I think Amber has a LOT of allies - Remember how Cameron and Osborne sent her out to nail Boris in the referendum debate + How she stood in for Theresa in the leaders debates last years (while Mrs May cowered behind the settee)

    However enough is enough. She's got to go.
    Nope. She's got to explain the situation.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I'm going to complain to Labour.

    Marc Wadsworth was a campaigner for justice in the Stephen Lawrence case. This man has been fighting against racism for years and now the right wing media get to imply he is some kind of racist when nobody on here who watched the video evidence would say he was anti-semitic in this case.

    Absolutely disgusting, those MPs targetting this black anti racist campaigner for purely political reasons should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    People were complaining about Len's piece the other day, where he pointed out that there was anti semites in Labour that need to be kicked out but that there were also those using anti semitism to smear Corbyn and his supporters.

    Well here you go, proof of exactly what he was saying. A great victory for the right wing media and Corbyn sceptic MPs who cares that it came at the cost of the reputation of an innocent black man.

    Well done to Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson for standing up for him. I am absolutely disgusted by the treatment of this man, it is about time people started to stand up to these bullies.

    There is of course nothing remotely amusing to the outside observer in the sight of a once great party so riven with internal strife and discord.

    Please copy us in on any correspondence with the National Constitutional Committee.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    edited April 2018

    Nigelb said:

    (Though, to be fair, you are PB's foremost Tory exponent of defending the indefensible in a reasonable manner...)

    Actually I also defended Labour ministers under the Brown government. I very strongly dislike accusations of lying or dishonesty which are not well-founded.

    Edit: In this particular case, it's certainly awkward for Amber Rudd. But 2/1 is much too short.
    The charge is misleading Parliament. If inadvertent, it simply confirms that she was incapable of properly running her department.

    I take no great joy in it, as it's quite clear that the architect of the policy was May, but the claim that she is the ideal person to clear up the mess doesn't really square with her obvious ignorance of how immigration enforcement was actually working.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Brexit: Customs union plan brewing in Whitehall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43925282

    Could be a blinder by the Cons. In all the Windrush furore no one really noticed Rudd's customs union comments.
    We’re leaving the customs union.

    But we’ll rejoin a customs union.

    Classic British fudge.

    Liam Fox’s incompetence saves us all.
    I'm beginning to think Theresa is a very clever arch-Remainer. She appointed Liam on purpose, knowing he'd mess it up. So without any hint of trade deals, the Brexit Ultras are neutered, having to either suck up the EU Customs Union and vassal statehood or endorse economic collapse. They're screwed.
    The longer nothing happens, the longer we don't make our position clear, the more likely the status quo will persist. I don't think even the brex-o-loons would force her to resign if the only available or possible option by that time was to stay in the CU and perhaps even the SM.

    As I mentioned yesterday, Peter Lilley at a conference said that an FTA with the EU is less likely than people think. So if there is not one, would JRM really force a change of leadership when a substantial number of Cons MPs are remainers and the entire Lab party would surely vote for CU/SM if it meant a possible shot at defeating the govt?
    you sound like Liam Fox
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Nigelb said:

    The charge is misleading Parliament. If inadvertent, it simply confirms that she was incapable of properly running her department.

    The convention is that she needs to put the record straight at the first opportunity.
This discussion has been closed.