This is derived from the lead given from the top, in accordance with a policy that the relevant minister (one Theresa May) was entirely happy with and entirely happy to back up rhetorically. Trying to claim it's some kind of low level bureaucratic bungle just won't wash.
Theresa May was and is not 'happy' with it. Quite the opposite, she's as horrified as all of us are that people here perfectly legally have been affected, and her government is acting fast to do something about it.
The reaction of most Leave voters has fundamentally been "how sad, oh well, never mind". If it wasn't, there would have been resignations by now. There is no real pressure on the government despite the fact that huge hardship and shocking administration is the direct responsibility of ministerial decisions.
And you miss the point. You can't pick and mix your xenophobia, whip it up when it suits you (as it suited you two years ago) then profess to be shocked at the consequences.
Alastair, was it xenophobia when my English mother lost her British nationality in 1942, and therefore had to report to the police weekly as an alien, because she had married my father?
Given your surname, the story of how your parents met (Didn't realise it was during the war) sounds like a fascinating story to be told.
My father was a student at Birmingham University, and met my mother at a dance. The relationship was not exactly encouraged by my mother's very Catholic family (!), but much to my grandmother's horror, they got married. My father then had to go back to Iran, so my mother didn't see him for a couple of years, then suddenly he reappeared having wangled a job with the BBC Listening Service.
Wasn’t Iran’s loyalty to the Allies ‘questionable' in the early part of WWII?
This is derived from the lead given from the top, in accordance with a policy that the relevant minister (one Theresa May) was entirely happy with and entirely happy to back up rhetorically. Trying to claim it's some kind of low level bureaucratic bungle just won't wash.
Theresa May was and is not 'happy' with it. Quite the opposite, she's as horrified as all of us are that people here perfectly legally have been affected, and her government is acting fast to do something about it.
She's been found out. You often see contrition in such circumstances. Few will be fooled.
No, says May. The decision was taken in 2009 under a Labour government.
Ahem. As I said yesterday was likely.
Yep. I thought this was likely the way the Guardian article was written. Very weaselly-worded, made to be literally correct, but also misleading: specified when the decision was implemented, but not when it was taken.
The reaction of most Leave voters has fundamentally been "how sad, oh well, never mind". If it wasn't, there would have been resignations by now. There is no real pressure on the government despite the fact that huge hardship and shocking administration is the direct responsibility of ministerial decisions.
And you miss the point. You can't pick and mix your xenophobia, whip it up when it suits you (as it suited you two years ago) then profess to be shocked at the consequences.
Alastair, was it xenophobia when my English mother lost her British nationality in 1942, and therefore had to report to the police weekly as an alien, because she had married my father?
Given your surname, the story of how your parents met (Didn't realise it was during the war) sounds like a fascinating story to be told.
My father was a student at Birmingham University, and met my mother at a dance. The relationship was not exactly encouraged by my mother's very Catholic family (!), but much to my grandmother's horror, they got married. My father then had to go back to Iran, so my mother didn't see him for a couple of years, then suddenly he reappeared having wangled a job with the BBC Listening Service.
Wasn’t Iran’s loyalty to the Allies ‘questionable' in the early part of WWII?
Well, it was, but she wasn't being treated as an enemy alien, just as an alien of a neutral country.
My uncle had an even more extraordinary story; he was also a student in the war, but in Brussels. He met and married a Belgian girl, bought a car, and they then drove the entire way to Tehran across war-torn Europe - about 4,000 miles.
Corbyn attacked May on the decision to destroy landing cards in 2010. But the decision to do so was taken in 2009.
Quick narrative shift - blame Blairite Brown. What a bastard....
Quick narrative shift on pb as well -- yesterday this decision would have been taken by a local manager without ministerial input but now we know it was 2009...
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
Corbyn attacked May on the decision to destroy landing cards in 2010. But the decision to do so was taken in 2009.
Quick narrative shift - blame Blairite Brown. What a bastard....
Quick narrative shift on pb as well -- yesterday this decision would have been taken by a local manager without ministerial input but now we know it was 2009...
It must have been known in no 10 yesterday and they let the narrative develop from labour knowing TM would torpedo him at PMQs
Corbyn attacked May on the decision to destroy landing cards in 2010. But the decision to do so was taken in 2009.
Quick narrative shift - blame Blairite Brown. What a bastard....
Quick narrative shift on pb as well -- yesterday this decision would have been taken by a local manager without ministerial input but now we know it was 2009...
Nah, it will still be a functionary in the Home Office, saving a few quid in storage costs each year.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
Corbyn attacked May on the decision to destroy landing cards in 2010. But the decision to do so was taken in 2009.
Quick narrative shift - blame Blairite Brown. What a bastard....
Quick narrative shift on pb as well -- yesterday this decision would have been taken by a local manager without ministerial input but now we know it was 2009...
Yesterday the cards were irrelevant & the Guardian was arguing they were vital Now the government will say they are vital and the Guardian, er, ...
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
So why the fuck couldn't he say that to the massed ranks of MPs yeterday, rather than giving the impression of a Trappist monk eating a wasps nest?
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
It's taken him 18 hours to concoct a form a words that is as mealy mouthed as humanly possible.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
Corbyn attacked May on the decision to destroy landing cards in 2010. But the decision to do so was taken in 2009.
Quick narrative shift - blame Blairite Brown. What a bastard....
Quick narrative shift on pb as well -- yesterday this decision would have been taken by a local manager without ministerial input but now we know it was 2009...
It must have been known in no 10 yesterday and they let the narrative develop from labour knowing TM would torpedo him at PMQs
Laugh, I nearly died. He deserves all he gets after yesterday's shame.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
Mr. Eagles, astounding to see some sort of tactical thinking from the Government.
As an aside, the recent LindyBeige video on Trasimene suggested it's the only time in history a whole army [I'd guess he rules out dinky ones] has ambushed the whole army of the enemy.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
It will be interesting to see BBC and Sky explaining it was labour who ordered the destruction of the landing cards as they were 100 % accusing TM personally for it and that she had questions to answer
2009? Well, that's down to that class traitor. Brown, and whatever pseudo-Tory was Home secretary under his right-wing regime. Uncle Jezz would never have allowed it.
Like the situation with Uncle Joe Stalin, any bad things done are down to Farmer Jones and his capitalist lackeys.
Corbyn is not really anti Semitic, though some of his supporters maybe and May did not intemtionally try and stop Windrush migrants staying in the country, though she should perhaps have paid closer attention to ensuring the records and legal exemptions were kept that proved that.
However politically in brute terms the Jewish vote is solidly Tory and the Afro-Caribbean vote solidly Labour so I doubt it will impact much on the next general election
In his actions and inactions, and in who he's prepared to voluntarily align with politically, Corbyn is passively antisemitic and is leading a party which on his watch has developed what looks very like institutional anti-jewish racism. It's obviously not the intense racism of, say, the National Front, but in the extent to which Jews are treated differently, both within and without, and in the party's failure to adequately recognise or address that problem, it's racism all the same.
The risks for Labour are two-fold:
(1) It feeds into a perception about Corbyn’s judgment, about whom he sides with and his willingness or otherwise to call out his friends, supporters and ideological soulmates, highlighted by his reaction to the Skripal poisoning and the Syrian chemical attack.
(2) If there is a terrorist attack on Jews and the degrees of separation from/similarity of language used by the perpetrators to some of the examples heard in the House of Commons last night. See what John Mann said - and good for him - about where this sort of language can lead. If Labour’s toleration of or blind eye turning to it becomes part of the background to or context of such a terrorist attack then it could be very dangerous for them.
I hope to God nothing like this does happen but who would bet against it given what has happened in recent years.
Both of these issues feed into the security question. But difficult to tell now how salient such an issue might be in four years time.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
As before, he distances the Labour Party from the problem.....
I've not watched the debates but Diane Abbott remarkably! seems to have become the main target for windrush criticism across the interwebs. Quite how she's managed that I'm really not sure.
How have Labour done it ? On Syria, the Windrush and race relations they seem to have slipped up on all three despite initially being in the lead on two out of three.
There is the distinct sense on this board that after many months on the back foot the multitudes of Tories have finally found a chink in the Messiah's armour. I can only see a chimera. Anti Semitism doesn't resonate because people don't believe the left are racist. Had it been the Tories facing these accusations whether true or imagined it would have made a difference.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
This matter has legs depending on how the question of EU citizens’ rights are handled.
Both my parents came to this country rather than being born here. After their deaths when I was sorting their papers I found nothing which would have told me when they first came into the country let alone the legal basis for their continued residence. I can well imagine how frightening it must be for elderly people from the West Indies suddenly being asked to produce documents they don’t have under pain of deportation.
If a similarly heartless and incompetent approach is adopted to EU citizens, then this could affect a large number of people.
If it is not to be a continuing sore, the government needs to:-
1. get a grip on the Windrush issue; 2. sort it; 3. pay generous compensation quickly to anyone affected; 4. review the rules for the future and change where appropriate after proper consultation; and 5. reach an agreement on the future of EU citizens which does not lead to similar problems in future.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
There is the distinct sense on this board that after many months on the back foot the multitudes of Tories have finally found a chink in the Messiah's armour. I can only see a chimera. Anti Semitism doesn't resonate because people don't believe the left are racist. Had it been the Tories facing these accusations whether true or imagined it would have made a difference.
Last night the Independant published their poll that the labour party were now considered a racist part y by 61% of the public only just ahead of UKIP
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
This is the scum who Labour have allowed into their ranks on a £3 trip.
Are these the Tory "scum" who paid £3 to become members to vote for Corbyn because they thought it would harm the Labour party?
I suspect that some of the abuse of Jewish Labour MPs on social media are from Tories pretending to be Labour members in order to increase damage. Why do I think that? Track record. It's the Tory way.
The Windrush issue will be soon forgotten (except amongst the Guardian-reading classes, of course) for the very simple reason that people will see it for what it is: a straightforward, old-fashioned Home Office cock-up, and one which luckily can be very rapidly fixed....
Perhaps.
But it, and the fairly scandalous state of immigration appeals, are the result of May's direct lead. Her illiberality on immigration and lack of concern for the results of uncompromising policies is fairly clear, as is demonstrated by the link I posted earlier this morning:
I think most taxpayers would support the idea that they shouldn't be paying for the education of children who shouldn't be here in the first place...
I would have thought such Mailesque rhetoric beneath you, Richard.
If the Windrush case has not demonstrated that undocumented is not equivalent to "shouldn't be here", then have not the tens of thousands of immigration appeals, a very large percentage of which have been won by the appellants (after delays averaging a year) ?
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
This matter has legs depending on how the question of EU citizens’ rights are handled.
Both my parents came to this country rather than being born here. After their deaths when I was sorting their papers I found nothing which would have told me when they first came into the country let alone the legal basis for their continued residence. I can well imagine how frightening it must be for elderly people from the West Indies suddenly being asked to produce documents they don’t have under pain of deportation.
If a similarly heartless and incompetent approach is adopted to EU citizens, then this could affect a large number of people.
If it is not to be a continuing sore, the government needs to:-
1. get a grip on the Windrush issue; 2. sort it; 3. pay generous compensation quickly to anyone affected; 4. review the rules for the future and change where appropriate after proper consultation; and 5. reach an agreement on the future of EU citizens which does not lead to similar problems in future.
The government has already taken the major steps to resolving the EU position, namely that all but the most recent migrants (or particularly transient people) will have the right to citizenship. The other half of that coin is to ensure they actually get the documents to show it. The campaign starts tomorrow (since many are already entitled to citizenship).
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
This matter has legs depending on how the question of EU citizens’ rights are handled.
Both my parents came to this country rather than being born here. After their deaths when I was sorting their papers I found nothing which would have told me when they first came into the country let alone the legal basis for their continued residence. I can well imagine how frightening it must be for elderly people from the West Indies suddenly being asked to produce documents they don’t have under pain of deportation.
If a similarly heartless and incompetent approach is adopted to EU citizens, then this could affect a large number of people.
If it is not to be a continuing sore, the government needs to:-
1. get a grip on the Windrush issue; 2. sort it; 3. pay generous compensation quickly to anyone affected; 4. review the rules for the future and change where appropriate after proper consultation; and 5. reach an agreement on the future of EU citizens which does not lead to similar problems in future.
Corbyn and heavy-calibre weaponry really don't mix, especially in the feet area....
Somebody in Labour thought Windrush was the whizzo-wheeze distraction from Syria/anti-semitism. But they were not playing the game six moves ahead....
I don’t think Windrush can be described as a distraction given how serious the story is. Although given how many on this site aren’t happy with the amount of coverage antisemitism has received it looks like they do believe the government’s problems on Windrush has limited the attention given to Labour.
"Barristers supposedly operate on the basis that you should never ask a question to which you don’t know the answer, and Corbyn did not seem to have prepared for what May told him about the landing cards. "
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
That question is definitely NOT about relative perception.
TGHOF asked about how many people know or even care about the issue. Given more than 80% of people gave a view I’d say it shows they do know about it and care.
Anti Semitism doesn't resonate because people don't believe the left are racist. Had it been the Tories facing these accusations whether true or imagined it would have made a difference.
Only stupid people think racism has a political alignment.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
That question is definitely NOT about relative perception.
TGHOF asked about how many people know or even care about the issue. Given more than 80% of people gave a view I’d say it shows they do know about it and care.
I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur.
We know for example that less than 20% of people recall even the most salient news, e.g. Salisbury or Syria, when asked to recall the world today.
And yet 95%+ of respondents would give a view if the question asked for how May was handling Salisbury or Syria.
I would have thought such Mailesque rhetoric beneath you, Richard.
If the Windrush case has not demonstrated that undocumented is not equivalent to "shouldn't be here", then have not the tens of thousands of immigration appeals, a very large percentage of which have been won by the appellants (after delays averaging a year) ?
The policy was Windrush on steroids.
I don't disagree with your main sentiment, the delays and bureaucracy are appalling.
As an aside I've never been very impressed by the argument that a large percentage of appeals are won, in any context. You'd always expect a large percentage of appeals to be won, given that only those with a good case are likely to appeal in the first place, unless it's extremely easy and cheap to appeal (which it isn't).
Edit: As often, Ms Cyclefree's clear thinking pins it all down perfectly.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
You’re assuming that he writes this stuff as opposed to his press office.
Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, shall we? Why couldn’t he have spoken up himself last night in front of and to his own MPs about the problems within the party he leads and what he was going to do about them? He was there; he can speak well; it is one of his great strengths. But he chose to remain silent.
There is, if you look, a distinction between what is said in official statements - which more or less say all the right things, though sometimes in a weaselly way - and what he himself says, where he tends to backtrack eg over Syria and the Skripals.
I simply don’t think he is willing to do what it takes because it would mean him challenging his own political ideology. He personally may be polite with Jews and not abuse them but he is too stupid or unwilling to realise that the ideology he supports provides a fertile breeding ground for anti-semtic abuse by others, some of them his most fervent supporters.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
That question is definitely NOT about relative perception.
TGHOF asked about how many people know or even care about the issue. Given more than 80% of people gave a view I’d say it shows they do know about it and care.
I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur.
We know for example that less than 20% of people recall even the most salient news, e.g. Salisbury or Syria, when asked to recall the world today.
And yet 95%+ of respondents would give a view if the question asked for how May was handling Salisbury or Syria.
I don’t agree. While Syria and Salisbury haven’t scored high for pollsters on what do people first recall, that’s not indicative as to whether people have noticed the story at all, as got pointed out to me on a debate on this recently. Unless you believe people don’t care about Salisbury or Syria of course, which given the boost in TMay’s ratings on the former indicates otherwise.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
That question is definitely NOT about relative perception.
TGHOF asked about how many people know or even care about the issue. Given more than 80% of people gave a view I’d say it shows they do know about it and care.
I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur.
We know for example that less than 20% of people recall even the most salient news, e.g. Salisbury or Syria, when asked to recall the world today.
And yet 95%+ of respondents would give a view if the question asked for how May was handling Salisbury or Syria.
I don’t agree. While Syria and Salisbury haven’t scored high for pollsters on what do people first recall, that’s not indicative as to whether people have noticed the story at all, as I got pointed out to me on a debate on this recently. Unless you believe people don’t care about Salisbury or Syria of course, which given the boost in TMay’s ratings on the former indicates otherwise.
OK, now I want you to think about all the reasons you vote for the party you vote for.
Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!
Jeremy Corbyn Verified account
@jeremycorbyn 54m54 minutes ago More I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.
In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.
I think, for the public, the apology works.
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
This is the scum who Labour have allowed into their ranks on a £3 trip.
Are these the Tory "scum" who paid £3 to become members to vote for Corbyn because they thought it would harm the Labour party?
I suspect that some of the abuse of Jewish Labour MPs on social media are from Tories pretending to be Labour members in order to increase damage. Why do I think that? Track record. It's the Tory way.
Any evidence for that last statement? Because it seems to fly in the face of the facts we do have and to be a nasty smear, to boot.
I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.
Look forward to the polling on how many voters particularly young voters even know or care what "Windrush" is.
That question is definitely NOT about relative perception.
TGHOF asked about how many people know or even care about the issue. Given more than 80% of people gave a view I’d say it shows they do know about it and care.
I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur.
We know for example that less than 20% of people recall even the most salient news, e.g. Salisbury or Syria, when asked to recall the world today.
And yet 95%+ of respondents would give a view if the question asked for how May was handling Salisbury or Syria.
I don’t agree. While Syria and Salisbury haven’t scored high for pollsters on what do people first recall, that’s not indicative as to whether people have noticed the story at all, as I got pointed out to me on a debate on this recently. Unless you believe people don’t care about Salisbury or Syria of course, which given the boost in TMay’s ratings on the former indicates otherwise.
OK, now I want you to think about all the reasons you vote for the party you vote for.
Where, on that list, is immigration?
Right now? 1. Cost of living (housing, et al) 2. Cuts to public service 3. Immigration 4. Brexit
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Somebody in Labour thought Windrush was the whizzo-wheeze distraction from Syria/anti-semitism. But they were not playing the game six moves ahead....
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/986555533535731712
Amazingly he has just secured Amber Rudd position
https://twitter.com/elashton/status/986562702041632768
He's garbage.
Yep. I thought this was likely the way the Guardian article was written. Very weaselly-worded, made to be literally correct, but also misleading: specified when the decision was implemented, but not when it was taken.
That is all.
He'd be like a less competent Lionel Hutz.
TM 10 - JC 0
My uncle had an even more extraordinary story; he was also a student in the war, but in Brussels. He met and married a Belgian girl, bought a car, and they then drove the entire way to Tehran across war-torn Europe - about 4,000 miles.
A clear win for Jezza.
Jeremy Corbyn
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@jeremycorbyn
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I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.
There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.
Bloody funny though!
Now the government will say they are vital and the Guardian, er, ...
a) True blue, capitalist, Tory
b) Socialist, keep the red flag flying, Labour.
Remarkably group a) seems to believe May has won, and group b) Corbyn !
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/986523610876665856
Maybe he doesn't prep as he is so brilliant at it?
But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5628845/Labour-MPs-suffer-wave-online-abuse-speaking-anti-Semitism.html
Dissent will not be tolerated.
As an aside, the recent LindyBeige video on Trasimene suggested it's the only time in history a whole army [I'd guess he rules out dinky ones] has ambushed the whole army of the enemy.
Like the situation with Uncle Joe Stalin, any bad things done are down to Farmer Jones and his capitalist lackeys.
(1) It feeds into a perception about Corbyn’s judgment, about whom he sides with and his willingness or otherwise to call out his friends, supporters and ideological soulmates, highlighted by his reaction to the Skripal poisoning and the Syrian chemical attack.
(2) If there is a terrorist attack on Jews and the degrees of separation from/similarity of language used by the perpetrators to some of the examples heard in the House of Commons last night. See what John Mann said - and good for him - about where this sort of language can lead. If Labour’s toleration of or blind eye turning to it becomes part of the background to or context of such a terrorist attack then it could be very dangerous for them.
I hope to God nothing like this does happen but who would bet against it given what has happened in recent years.
Both of these issues feed into the security question. But difficult to tell now how salient such an issue might be in four years time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVq5-u7MH0
malcolmg will be along for the ritual stoning-by-turnip for even suggesting such a thing.
Quite how she's managed that I'm really not sure.
On Syria, the Windrush and race relations they seem to have slipped up on all three despite initially being in the lead on two out of three.
Both my parents came to this country rather than being born here. After their deaths when I was sorting their papers I found nothing which would have told me when they first came into the country let alone the legal basis for their continued residence. I can well imagine how frightening it must be for elderly people from the West Indies suddenly being asked to produce documents they don’t have under pain of deportation.
If a similarly heartless and incompetent approach is adopted to EU citizens, then this could affect a large number of people.
If it is not to be a continuing sore, the government needs to:-
1. get a grip on the Windrush issue;
2. sort it;
3. pay generous compensation quickly to anyone affected;
4. review the rules for the future and change where appropriate after proper consultation; and
5. reach an agreement on the future of EU citizens which does not lead to similar problems in future.
I suspect that some of the abuse of Jewish Labour MPs on social media are from Tories pretending to be Labour members in order to increase damage. Why do I think that? Track record. It's the Tory way.
If the Windrush case has not demonstrated that undocumented is not equivalent to "shouldn't be here", then have not the tens of thousands of immigration appeals, a very large percentage of which have been won by the appellants (after delays averaging a year) ?
The policy was Windrush on steroids.
well guite, Andrew Sparrow.
We know for example that less than 20% of people recall even the most salient news, e.g. Salisbury or Syria, when asked to recall the world today.
And yet 95%+ of respondents would give a view if the question asked for how May was handling Salisbury or Syria.
As an aside I've never been very impressed by the argument that a large percentage of appeals are won, in any context. You'd always expect a large percentage of appeals to be won, given that only those with a good case are likely to appeal in the first place, unless it's extremely easy and cheap to appeal (which it isn't).
Edit: As often, Ms Cyclefree's clear thinking pins it all down perfectly.
https://twitter.com/Troszczynski_FN/status/986572936713789440
Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, shall we? Why couldn’t he have spoken up himself last night in front of and to his own MPs about the problems within the party he leads and what he was going to do about them? He was there; he can speak well; it is one of his great strengths. But he chose to remain silent.
There is, if you look, a distinction between what is said in official statements - which more or less say all the right things, though sometimes in a weaselly way - and what he himself says, where he tends to backtrack eg over Syria and the Skripals.
I simply don’t think he is willing to do what it takes because it would mean him challenging his own political ideology. He personally may be polite with Jews and not abuse them but he is too stupid or unwilling to realise that the ideology he supports provides a fertile breeding ground for anti-semtic abuse by others, some of them his most fervent supporters.
https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/986304523743481856
Far right 23% and 6% far left 16.5%!
Where, on that list, is immigration?
1. Cost of living (housing, et al)
2. Cuts to public service
3. Immigration
4. Brexit