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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The commentators blaming TMay for the Windrush affair are righ

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  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    18m18 minutes ago

    "What did you do about the bombing of Syria, Philip May?"
    "I made a bomb."

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986194134624022528
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Yesterdays debate on Syria was led, proposed and summed up by Labour MP Alison McGovern.

    She did an excellent job, was confident, and had cross party support - just let down by Labour MP abstentions at the vote.

    I suggest Alison McGovern as a future Labour leader once/if their Left Wing is tamed.

    Err, didn't she abstain herself, and criticise the SNP for voting for her motion? They're not called the Labstainers for nothing.
    Facing both ways at once is surely a necessary competence for any future leader?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    TOPPING said:

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group, with $1.7tn AUM, is the second largest shareholder in thousands of companies. And the largest shareholder likely in thousands more, and the third largest shareholder in...

    What are you saying Lockheed Martin's ethical crime is?
    And if all you were interested in was making a quick buck, I can think of a lot of better ways in which you could adjust government policy to assist the share price.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    If Donald trump withdraws his support from action against Syria or Russia, she will be more exposed than a nude swimmer as the tide goes out.
    Methinks that is your political prejudice which of course you are entitled to
    If her record is a predictor of the future, ...............
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2018
    This is a rather unconventional way to address the Chairman of the Commons Culture Committee:

    https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/986157077843365888

    (and it should be 'Arron and me').
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    If Donald trump withdraws his support from action against Syria or Russia, she will be more exposed than a nude swimmer as the tide goes out.
    She did not take instructions from Trump !
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Mr. City, I think the UK's migration bureaucracy is more likely to be institutionally incompetent than racist. I remember reading here of terrible and obviously stupid mistakes made regarding Americans who had every right to work here yet, upon a quick holiday back home, returned to Blighty only to find their status under question.

    I agree Morris , that was my impression .
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    When did any UK party last win over 50% of the votes at a general election - what, itcould be argued, is necessary to claim a mandate?
    Baldwin in 1931 got 55% and that was the last time a party got over 50%.

    Though Eden and Macmillan came close in 1955 and 1959 with 49%
    Labour in ’51 got 48.8% Tories 48% including Ulster Unionists and National Liberals. Although some UU’s were unopposed.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/

    As an aside, that site is hosted on Amazon. I doubt there is a single American government, state government or dog warden web site hosted by a Scottish provider. That's how America supports its own companies and turns them into world-beaters. Scotland and Britain, not so much.
    Yeah, but we are going to be buccaneering free traders. No protection here.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    TOPPING said:

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group, with $1.7tn AUM, is the second largest shareholder in thousands of companies. And the largest shareholder likely in thousands more, and the third largest shareholder in...

    What are you saying Lockheed Martin's ethical crime is?
    And if all you were interested in was making a quick buck, I can think of a lot of better ways in which you could adjust government policy to assist the share price.
    That link is a bit far-fetched but follows news of Jeremy Hunt's investment in rising house prices. It might be time for another look at the conflict-of-interest rules affecting ministers and their families, and for greater use of blind trusts. Now, if only we knew who Theresa May has backed as next minister to leave the cabinet.
  • This is a rather unconventional way to address the Chairman of the Commons Culture Committee:

    https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/986157077843365888

    (and it should be 'Arron and me').

    #Rattled
  • 190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Tyson, if you're suggesting I was upset by your post I can reassure you that that was, and is, not the case.

    I read something similar some years ago, namely that certain conditions could be helpful for the species as a whole. Psychopaths as leaders, manic-depressives as artists and so on.

    Not that there aren't potentially enormous downsides for both individuals and wider society, of course. Psychopaths are fantastic leaders, but can also be somewhat murderous.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    Mr. City, I think the UK's migration bureaucracy is more likely to be institutionally incompetent than racist. I remember reading here of terrible and obviously stupid mistakes made regarding Americans who had every right to work here yet, upon a quick holiday back home, returned to Blighty only to find their status under question.

    That is my point......I defy anyone trying to run a bureaucracy beset by cuts and staff turnover whilst continually managing policy changes underpinned by an IT system that is always playing catch up and hardly fit for purpose in the first place, whilst contracting out and fragmenting service delivery.....


    When will the penny drop that we cannot continually cut our public services and hope that they deliver......
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    This is a rather unconventional way to address the Chairman of the Commons Culture Committee:

    https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/986157077843365888

    (and it should be 'Arron and me').

    The report doesn't seem to have gone down well with Leavers, that's true. Most of them are trying to ignore it.

    It would be nice if one or two might acknowledge that it is highly supportive of what I have said on the odd occasion. But I won't hold out too much hope.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    Talking of CA / Facebook, this is fascinating video of how Facebook advertising works.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM1IM2QUYjk
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    TOPPING said:

    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    What was the unintended consequence here? Surely the law, the manifesto and not least the Prime Minister's slow reaction all suggest that deporting these people was indeed the intention and the only unintended bit was the political damage.
    Naughty.

    The intention was to ensure that people who had no right to live here could not receive the benefits of citizenship. Fair enough.

    The unintended consequence was that proving the right to live here turned out to be problematic for a subset of people with a right to live here which, it seems, no one foresaw.
    If we changed the legal system so that in criminal trials the onus of evidence was on the defence to prove innocence, I don't think it would be fair to call the subsequent increase in false convictions an "unintended consequence".
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    Yorkcity said:

    Is the present Home Office , institutionally racist ?

    Well there's plenty of evidence that Theresa May has questions to answer. If Jeremy Corbyn had sent vans round telling immigrants to 'GO HOME' all the Guidoistas would be apoplectic. I just think that in the Tory Party and right wing circles in general racism is endemic which is why as a distraction they've pounced on these overblown charges against Corbyn.
  • 190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!

    Where else have they found traces apart from the door handle?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Thank god for that. It would mean financial interests could commission private polls while the great, unwashed voting public are kept in the dark.
  • TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JonathanD said:

    .

    Barnesian said:

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
    Probably in combination with some of that nasty dihydrogen monoxide.
    A solution of dihydrogen monoxide and sodium chloride makes people vomit if they accidentally swallow it
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!

    That is Salisbury off my day trip list.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Thank god for that. It would mean financial interests could commission private polls while the great, unwashed voting public are kept in the dark.
    The problem with opinion polls is not that they are unreliable but that far too many people think they are much more reliable than they are (or can be). The solution is therefore one of education, not proscription.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Yorkcity said:

    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    If Donald trump withdraws his support from action against Syria or Russia, she will be more exposed than a nude swimmer as the tide goes out.
    She did not take instructions from Trump !
    You are right, the Holy Spirit entered her while she was hill walking in Wales.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited April 2018
    TOPPING said:

    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    What was the unintended consequence here? Surely the law, the manifesto and not least the Prime Minister's slow reaction all suggest that deporting these people was indeed the intention and the only unintended bit was the political damage.
    Naughty.

    The intention was to ensure that people who had no right to live here could not receive the benefits of citizenship. Fair enough.

    The unintended consequence was that proving the right to live here turned out to be problematic for a subset of people with a right to live here which, it seems, no one foresaw.
    I don't think that was unintended. It was a purposeful decision to increase the burden of proof for anyone wishing to live in the UK. This applies to all of us. If you can't prove that you have the right to live here the government will prevent you from having a home, a job, healthcare, etc.

    No papers, no life.

    It's a massive change in the balance of power between the government and British citizens. We should never have allowed it to happen.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    edited April 2018

    Thank god for that. It would mean financial interests could commission private polls while the great, unwashed voting public are kept in the dark.
    The problem with opinion polls is not that they are unreliable but that far too many people think they are much more reliable than they are (or can be). The solution is therefore one of education, not proscription.
    Make political gambling compulsory
  • 190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!

    Where else have they found traces apart from the door handle?
    Not sure but seems quite widespread.

    It must raise questions over compensation to businesses for serious loss of trade
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I wonder if Jeremy will be meeting with them and charming them and opining that Charles should not be head of the Commonwealth.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    This is a rather unconventional way to address the Chairman of the Commons Culture Committee:

    https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/986157077843365888

    (and it should be 'Arron and me').

    The report doesn't seem to have gone down well with Leavers, that's true. Most of them are trying to ignore it.

    It would be nice if one or two might acknowledge that it is highly supportive of what I have said on the odd occasion. But I won't hold out too much hope.
    It would be great if you admit the double standards you employ on here,while you call most leavers xenophobic, you have a second home in one of the racists countries in Europe.

    Do we have a point ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Hats off to their analysts then.

    Or are you suggesting that "he had a quiet word" and got her to bomb Syria to pump his share portfolio? (And if he had that much influence, one might just idly muse why he didn't tell her calling an election last year was a damn fool notion....)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    I notice that Shami Chakrabarti has said that the recommendations made in her (not at all white-wash of) report in antisemitism still haven't been implemented.

    A bit like Trump and sanctions against Russia.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited April 2018

    Thank god for that. It would mean financial interests could commission private polls while the great, unwashed voting public are kept in the dark.
    The problem with opinion polls is not that they are unreliable but that far too many people think they are much more reliable than they are (or can be). The solution is therefore one of education, not proscription.
    HuffPost was the only media outlet that reported opinion polling properly in the lead up to the GE2017 (imo). You can clearly see an undecided line swinging to Labour as the campaign goes on.

    Far too many media organisations are far too interested in pumping up THEIR LATEST poll as if it was gospel truth.
    The polling assumptions to essentially add a fair bit to the Tory vote were also fighting the last war.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TOPPING said:

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group, with $1.7tn AUM, is the second largest shareholder in thousands of companies. And the largest shareholder likely in thousands more, and the third largest shareholder in...

    What are you saying Lockheed Martin's ethical crime is?
    Perhaps Caesar's wife should not work for Lockheed Martin.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    This is a rather unconventional way to address the Chairman of the Commons Culture Committee:

    https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/986157077843365888

    (and it should be 'Arron and me').

    The report doesn't seem to have gone down well with Leavers, that's true. Most of them are trying to ignore it.

    It would be nice if one or two might acknowledge that it is highly supportive of what I have said on the odd occasion. But I won't hold out too much hope.
    It would be great if you admit the double standards you employ on here,while you call most leavers xenophobic, you have a second home in one of the racists countries in Europe.

    Do we have a point ?
    The ethical position of one London pensions lawyer is irrelevant when considering the problems caused by the country having voted for a Leave campaign that was driven by xenophobic lies. You can assume what you like about me since I do not court your approval and I am comfortable with my own choices.

    Now, back to the profound damage that the xenophobic lies that you happily fell in behind during the Leave campaign have done to the country.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    To be fair, if we’re thinking of AT, while he needs the treatment ‘soon’ it sould well be that it may not be a question of ‘now like now’. I had radiotherapy for Prostate Cancer last year; it was suggested early in May, I was a bit doubtful, and had a holiday booked so the consultant told me to think about and in any event it could be done after my return, which it was.
    First indications are that it’s worked, but second follow-up appointment is next month!
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    On the radio, a man who has been here for decades and caring for his cancer-stricken, elderly mother has been told to leave or face being banged up in a detention centre despite Dominic Grieve and David Lammy trying to resolve the situation. The bloke is leaving tomorrow rather than be arrested.
  • 190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!

    Where else have they found traces apart from the door handle?
    Not sure but seems quite widespread.

    It must raise questions over compensation to businesses for serious loss of trade
    I wasn't expecting you to specifically know, it was more a general question.

    If they have found it elsewhere, have these areas been cordoned off etc?
    If they're going to need nearly 200 people to clear this up, I would have expected large chunks of Salisbury to be sealed off by now.
    Also seems a bit strange that only 3 people have been affected by it.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    To be fair, if we’re thinking of AT, while he needs the treatment ‘soon’ it sould well be that it may not be a question of ‘now like now’. I had radiotherapy for Prostate Cancer last year; it was suggested early in May, I was a bit doubtful, and had a holiday booked so the consultant told me to think about and in any event it could be done after my return, which it was.
    First indications are that it’s worked, but second follow-up appointment is next month!
    Wow, puts all our squabbles in perspective. Good luck!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    tyson said:

    @Topping


    I'm trying to say that there is an evolutionary reason for many of our mental health conditions. So for the autistic spectrum....you have high achieving, very intelligent brains who would be diagnosed with some kind of asbergers syndrome. People like Zuckerberg, Gates....certainly most of the high achievers in science, technology are asbergery.

    Once human beings collectivised, there was a role for psychopaths as they were drawn to leadership.

    Similarly, ADHD and creativity are linked together. Stephen Fry has learned to embrace his bi-polar disorder because of the creativity it inspires in him during his high moments.

    Morris Dancer took my post a little personally. As he rightly points out mental health conditions are labelled and stigmatised. This is of course wrong...... these very same mental health conditions are part of our genetic makeup and have been responsible for the development and evolution of the human race.

    And this is drawn from your doctoral thesis on the issue is it?

    The link between insanity and art (the mad artist) is a well-worn and worn out trope.

    What you might mean is that there are complex reasons for all types of behaviour and character traits which defy lay or medical assessments of causation.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    To be fair, if we’re thinking of AT, while he needs the treatment ‘soon’ it sould well be that it may not be a question of ‘now like now’. I had radiotherapy for Prostate Cancer last year; it was suggested early in May, I was a bit doubtful, and had a holiday booked so the consultant told me to think about and in any event it could be done after my return, which it was.
    First indications are that it’s worked, but second follow-up appointment is next month!
    Good luck!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:
    the LOL about that is that she made the admission in response to Brendan O'Hara having a go at her:

    "Brittany Kaiser, former director of program development at the under-fire consultancy, made the admission under questioning from SNP MP Brendan O'Hara.

    She told MPs on a Westminster committee: “I do know that we have been in pitches and negotiations with UK parties in the past, such as the SNP.”

    The revelation – which appeared to visibly surprise Mr O'Hara – comes amid widespread outcry over the company’s alleged misuse of social media data."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    I think we can expect 'anonymous sources' letting us know that Theresa was in tears at the plight of some of the Windrush children.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Pubgoer, there might only be tiny quantities about, so risk is low, but the potential impact high.

    Mr. Me, the Windrush situation is absolutely despicable. As you indicate, it sounds like a wretched, foolish and entirely unnecessary change.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    I wasn't expecting you to specifically know, it was more a general question.

    If they have found it elsewhere, have these areas been cordoned off etc?
    If they're going to need nearly 200 people to clear this up, I would have expected large chunks of Salisbury to be sealed off by now.
    Also seems a bit strange that only 3 people have been affected by it.

    Not really, they are likely being extra careful. It's better to be very thorough than to miss a bit.

    IIRC the Polonium 210 exposed something like 30,000 people on the aircraft that it was taken on before they were withdrawn.

  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    So May has ber best day as PM since the election yesterday, her position is completely secure, Corbyn is ridiculed in Parliament by loads of his own MPs and we have a thread on how May's position is under threat.!
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Hats off to their analysts then.

    Or are you suggesting that "he had a quiet word" and got her to bomb Syria to pump his share portfolio? (And if he had that much influence, one might just idly muse why he didn't tell her calling an election last year was a damn fool notion....)
    I thought the official story was that he had a quiet word with her while they were out walking in Wales, and he was fully behind her calling the general election, despite all her promises that she would keep going until the end of the Parliament.
  • On the radio, a man who has been here for decades and caring for his cancer-stricken, elderly mother has been told to leave or face being banged up in a detention centre despite Dominic Grieve and David Lammy trying to resolve the situation. The bloke is leaving tomorrow rather than be arrested.

    He will not be deported tomorrow now
  • Charles said:

    JonathanD said:

    .

    Barnesian said:

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
    Probably in combination with some of that nasty dihydrogen monoxide.
    A solution of dihydrogen monoxide and sodium chloride makes people vomit if they accidentally swallow it
    What's even worse is if you mix dihydrogen monoxide with certain biological components and distil the result you end up with a highly potent agent that has significant neurological effects. An independent Scotland would have access to some of the World's largest stores of this, with the ability to deploy it within 45 minutes.
  • TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    To be fair, if we’re thinking of AT, while he needs the treatment ‘soon’ it sould well be that it may not be a question of ‘now like now’. I had radiotherapy for Prostate Cancer last year; it was suggested early in May, I was a bit doubtful, and had a holiday booked so the consultant told me to think about and in any event it could be done after my return, which it was.
    First indications are that it’s worked, but second follow-up appointment is next month!
    All the best for your follow up
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited April 2018
    currystar said:

    So May has ber best day as PM since the election yesterday, her position is completely secure, Corbyn is ridiculed in Parliament by loads of his own MPs and we have a thread on how May's position is under threat.!

    Neither is under any threat I believe.

    Next leader out most likely Strong and Cable, methinks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    One interesting side effect of the Cohen case is that it potentially removes a certain amount of the cover provided for Trump by Fox...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-might-survive-firing-rosenstein-or-even-mueller-the-reason-fox-news/2018/04/13/f388aa9c-3e78-11e8-974f-aacd97698cef_story.html
  • 190 military personnel to assist with clean up of the liquid agent in parts of Salisbury and could take upto Christmas !!!!!!!!!

    Where else have they found traces apart from the door handle?
    Not sure but seems quite widespread.

    It must raise questions over compensation to businesses for serious loss of trade
    I wasn't expecting you to specifically know, it was more a general question.

    If they have found it elsewhere, have these areas been cordoned off etc?
    If they're going to need nearly 200 people to clear this up, I would have expected large chunks of Salisbury to be sealed off by now.
    Also seems a bit strange that only 3 people have been affected by it.

    Sky and BBC both reporting that the liquid form of the nerve agent does not degrade and 190+ military are going to assist in decontaminating various areas and it may well take to Christmas. They do say there is low risk to the public
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    Charles said:

    JonathanD said:

    .

    Barnesian said:

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
    Probably in combination with some of that nasty dihydrogen monoxide.
    A solution of dihydrogen monoxide and sodium chloride makes people vomit if they accidentally swallow it
    What's even worse is if you mix dihydrogen monoxide with certain biological components and distil the result you end up with a highly potent agent that has significant neurological effects. An independent Scotland would have access to some of the World's largest stores of this, with the ability to deploy it within 45 minutes.
    45 minutes? I salute your adherence to delayed gratification.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Corbyn requested a spurious debate last night, and is now whipping his MPs to vote against it today.

    Still, will keep the anti-semitism debate off the news at least
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    When did any UK party last win over 50% of the votes at a general election - what, itcould be argued, is necessary to claim a mandate?
    Baldwin in 1931 got 55% and that was the last time a party got over 50%.

    Though Eden and Macmillan came close in 1955 and 1959 with 49%
    Labour in ’51 got 48.8% Tories 48% including Ulster Unionists and National Liberals. Although some UU’s were unopposed.
    It helped that the minor parties did not score highly at that time, though the collapse of the LD and UKIP vote now means both the Tories and Labour can get over 40% in the same election
  • Charles said:

    JonathanD said:

    .

    Barnesian said:

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
    Probably in combination with some of that nasty dihydrogen monoxide.
    A solution of dihydrogen monoxide and sodium chloride makes people vomit if they accidentally swallow it
    What's even worse is if you mix dihydrogen monoxide with certain biological components and distil the result you end up with a highly potent agent that has significant neurological effects. An independent Scotland would have access to some of the World's largest stores of this, with the ability to deploy it within 45 minutes.
    45 minutes? I salute your adherence to delayed gratification.
    It takes that long to get home from the office
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    Read it all!

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Hats off to their analysts then.

    Or are you suggesting that "he had a quiet word" and got her to bomb Syria to pump his share portfolio? (And if he had that much influence, one might just idly muse why he didn't tell her calling an election last year was a damn fool notion....)
    I am sure it is a happy coincidence.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Chris Williamson on Daily Politics if anyone’s interested in hearing his theories. He was on from 12:40 to 12:50.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    currystar said:

    So May has ber best day as PM since the election yesterday, her position is completely secure, Corbyn is ridiculed in Parliament by loads of his own MPs and we have a thread on how May's position is under threat.!

    The best day has come and gone.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986209890761920517

    Corbyn really is the ultimate sixth form common room revolutionary isn't he?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited April 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Chris Williamson on Daily Politics if anyone’s interested in hearing his theories. He was on from 12:40 to 12:50.

    BBC, PressTV or RT?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    On the radio, a man who has been here for decades and caring for his cancer-stricken, elderly mother has been told to leave or face being banged up in a detention centre despite Dominic Grieve and David Lammy trying to resolve the situation. The bloke is leaving tomorrow rather than be arrested.

    He will not be deported tomorrow now
    He is self-deporting to avoid being detained and having to undergo the humiliation of being taken to a plane in handcuffs.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
  • On the radio, a man who has been here for decades and caring for his cancer-stricken, elderly mother has been told to leave or face being banged up in a detention centre despite Dominic Grieve and David Lammy trying to resolve the situation. The bloke is leaving tomorrow rather than be arrested.

    He will not be deported tomorrow now
    He is self-deporting to avoid being detained and having to undergo the humiliation of being taken to a plane in handcuffs.
    Well he should cancel his flight and report to the new task force.

    I have been as angry as anyone over this issue but if he self deports now he is taking an entirely unnecessary step
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Jezza starting off much better today.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
  • Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    I would think that Amber Rudd will have serious questions to answer from TM as to why she has not dealt with it
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/

    As an aside, that site is hosted on Amazon. I doubt there is a single American government, state government or dog warden web site hosted by a Scottish provider. That's how America supports its own companies and turns them into world-beaters. Scotland and Britain, not so much.
    Are there any Scottish providers that have the sort of tech offered by the likes of AWS? To be perfectly honest, you have to have a really good reason not to use them these days when it comes to web services.
    If the Scottish government and Scottish councils had supported their own providers, there might be. That's what I'm getting at: the Americans look after their own and make long term gains. We do not.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited April 2018
    Deleted
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    Read it all!

    And for the second time today, I note that others are drawing the same conclusion that I have for some time:

    "there is no escaping the simple truth. The treatment of the Windrush generation was not a mistake or an oversight by an unwieldy bureaucracy.

    It results from a deliberate act of policy. It was Mrs May, as Home Secretary, who pursued a relentless drive to make life in Britain impossible for those who, her department believed, were here illegally — all in pursuit of an arbitrary and elusive target of reducing net migration to below 100,000.

    ...

    Then the Brexiteers harnessed age-old hostility to immigrants to win majority support for their minority concerns about Parliamentary sovereignty.
    ...

    Now Britain is reaping what it sowed."

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    Read it all!

    And for the second time today, I note that others are drawing the same conclusion that I have for some time:

    "there is no escaping the simple truth. The treatment of the Windrush generation was not a mistake or an oversight by an unwieldy bureaucracy.

    It results from a deliberate act of policy. It was Mrs May, as Home Secretary, who pursued a relentless drive to make life in Britain impossible for those who, her department believed, were here illegally — all in pursuit of an arbitrary and elusive target of reducing net migration to below 100,000.

    ...

    Then the Brexiteers harnessed age-old hostility to immigrants to win majority support for their minority concerns about Parliamentary sovereignty.
    ...

    Now Britain is reaping what it sowed."

    I'm trying to recall who was the Chancellor of the Exchequer when the relevant legislation was introduced.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    I would think that Amber Rudd will have serious questions to answer from TM as to why she has not dealt with it
    "It was recklessly irresponsible of you not to reverse my policies!"
  • Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
    I reckon it is tears.

    Tears of sadness that Mrs May is once again destroying all that hard work of Dave and George to detoxify the Tory Party.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Lordy, it looks like our white "kith and kin" are being effected by the May/Rudd immigration mess as well.

    James O'Brien
    ‏Verified account @mrjamesob
    2h2 hours ago

    Just taken a call from a woman who came here from Rhodesia, aged 2, in '62. Three years before independence. She's already lost her job due to her immigration status and being told by the Home Office that she's not British.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/986187232221556737
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
    I reckon it is tears.

    Tears of sadness that Mrs May is once again destroying all that hard work of Dave and George to detoxify the Tory Party.
    Yet the 42% she got was higher than they managed and the Tories are still on 40% with Survation.

    It was of course May who first recognised the Tories were sometimes called 'the nasty party'
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    On the radio, a man who has been here for decades and caring for his cancer-stricken, elderly mother has been told to leave or face being banged up in a detention centre despite Dominic Grieve and David Lammy trying to resolve the situation. The bloke is leaving tomorrow rather than be arrested.

    He will not be deported tomorrow now
    He is self-deporting to avoid being detained and having to undergo the humiliation of being taken to a plane in handcuffs.
    Well he should cancel his flight and report to the new task force.

    I have been as angry as anyone over this issue but if he self deports now he is taking an entirely unnecessary step
    I would imagine he would like that in writing from the shambolic Home Office.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    Read it all!

    And for the second time today, I note that others are drawing the same conclusion that I have for some time:

    "there is no escaping the simple truth. The treatment of the Windrush generation was not a mistake or an oversight by an unwieldy bureaucracy.

    It results from a deliberate act of policy. It was Mrs May, as Home Secretary, who pursued a relentless drive to make life in Britain impossible for those who, her department believed, were here illegally — all in pursuit of an arbitrary and elusive target of reducing net migration to below 100,000.

    ...

    Then the Brexiteers harnessed age-old hostility to immigrants to win majority support for their minority concerns about Parliamentary sovereignty.
    ...

    Now Britain is reaping what it sowed."

    It was Blair's failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 which imcreased the capacity of Leavers to exploit immigration concerns
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    TM on camera at meeting at no 10 with Caribbean leaders publically apologising and saying it will be resolved

    I'd love to see how she's going to retroactively give cancer treatment
    To be fair, if we’re thinking of AT, while he needs the treatment ‘soon’ it sould well be that it may not be a question of ‘now like now’. I had radiotherapy for Prostate Cancer last year; it was suggested early in May, I was a bit doubtful, and had a holiday booked so the consultant told me to think about and in any event it could be done after my return, which it was.
    First indications are that it’s worked, but second follow-up appointment is next month!
    All the best for your follow up
    Thank you. And Messrs Stereotomy and Palmer. I shall continue to get on with life and trust in my (once upon a time) colleagues in the NHS!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited April 2018

    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/

    As an aside, that site is hosted on Amazon. I doubt there is a single American government, state government or dog warden web site hosted by a Scottish provider. That's how America supports its own companies and turns them into world-beaters. Scotland and Britain, not so much.
    Are there any Scottish providers that have the sort of tech offered by the likes of AWS? To be perfectly honest, you have to have a really good reason not to use them these days when it comes to web services.
    If the Scottish government and Scottish councils had supported their own providers, there might be. That's what I'm getting at: the Americans look after their own and make long term gains. We do not.
    I highly doubt it. There is basically AWS and a couple of others and that it is outside of China. If it was easy to to develop something like AWS, there would be masses of other companies doing it, because it is such a massive money maker.

    It is a bit like saying, how come there isn't loads of companies as good as ARM in the world.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
    :lol:
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Kremlin Corbyn spouting his appeaser nonsense in House of Commons now. No visible dandruff today.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    Just seen a Facebook vid of Anne Coulter's criticisms of Trump. She is obviously ripped to shreds in the comments, but her points about him potentially losing the base (Or enough of it to lose the next election) are valid:

    1) He campaigned on non intervention. That is obviously out the window no matter your Syria stance.
    2) He campaigned to be strong and tough in facing world leaders. That lasted about a day with the Germany/NATO payments speech, he tends to go agree with whichever world leader he spoke to last.
    3) He campaigned to be respected rather than liked. It is clear being liked is far more important to him than being respected, again he tends to go agree with whoever he spoke to last.

    I think the Democrats with the right candidate can definitely win the next election.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Lordy, it looks like our white "kith and kin" are being effected by the May/Rudd immigration mess as well.

    James O'Brien
    ‏Verified account @mrjamesob
    2h2 hours ago

    Just taken a call from a woman who came here from Rhodesia, aged 2, in '62. Three years before independence. She's already lost her job due to her immigration status and being told by the Home Office that she's not British.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/986187232221556737

    The only way stop this being political herpes for the foreseeable future is to announce some sort of immigration amnesty. Otherwise every deportation sob story is going to be on the news from now until the end of time or this government. Whichever comes first.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
    I reckon it is tears.

    Tears of sadness that Mrs May is once again destroying all that hard work of Dave and George to detoxify the Tory Party.
    But, cracking down on illegal immigration is as much Dave and George's handiwork as it is May's.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited April 2018
    I wonder he’s been smoking!

    There’s counter-factual and there’s counter-factual!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    I wonder he’s been smoking!

    There’s counter-factual and there’s counter-factual!
    Why would the Conservative Party want Farage to be its leader?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    edited April 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    Just seen a Facebook vid of Anne Coulter's criticisms of Trump. She is obviously ripped to shreds in the comments, but her points about him potentially losing the base (Or enough of it to lose the next election) are valid:

    1) He campaigned on non intervention. That is obviously out the window no matter your Syria stance.
    2) He campaigned to be strong and tough in facing world leaders. That lasted about a day with the Germany/NATO payments speech, he tends to go agree with whichever world leader he spoke to last.
    3) He campaigned to be respected rather than liked. It is clear being liked is far more important to him than being respected, again he tends to go agree with whoever he spoke to last.

    I think the Democrats with the right candidate can definitely win the next election.

    Trump campaigned as Pat Buchanan but may well end up as Bill Clinton, especially if the Democrats win control of Congress in November and move towards impeachment proceedings.

    Don't forget Trump was a Clinton Democrat in the 1990s and his opponent for the Reform Party nomination in 2000 was indeed Pat Buchanan
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sean_F said:

    I wonder he’s been smoking!

    There’s counter-factual and there’s counter-factual!
    Why would the Conservative Party want Farage to be its leader?
    "One of us."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Sean_F said:

    I wonder he’s been smoking!

    There’s counter-factual and there’s counter-factual!
    Why would the Conservative Party want Farage to be its leader?
    In what concievable universe?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2018

    [snip]

    "there is no escaping the simple truth. The treatment of the Windrush generation was not a mistake or an oversight by an unwieldy bureaucracy.

    It results from a deliberate act of policy. It was Mrs May, as Home Secretary, who pursued a relentless drive to make life in Britain impossible for those who, her department believed, were here illegally — all in pursuit of an arbitrary and elusive target of reducing net migration to below 100,000.
    [snip]

    Dear me, a humongous non-sequitur being quoted favourably by a distinguished lawyer!

    Since the Windrush generation are here perfectly legally, and always have been, it follows that it was a mistake or an oversight by an unwieldy bureaucracy, if the Home Office were as stated intending to make life in Britain impossible for those who were here illegally.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Evening Standard comment: Windrush children are victims of our politics

    I like this little snippet about TMay.

    Privately, Downing Street tells us she is “furious” that her chance to shine at the Commonwealth conference in London has been ruined.

    You have to work quite hard to make Theresa May the victim in this story.
    George Osborne's Evening Standard office floor must be soaking with tears of laughter.
    Tears, you reckon?
    I reckon it is tears.

    Tears of sadness that Mrs May is once again destroying all that hard work of Dave and George to detoxify the Tory Party.
    Time for someone to make a 'nasty party' speech... ?
  • The sooner John Bercow is replaced by Lindsay Hoyle the better.
This discussion has been closed.