A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
Mr. Elliot, unlikely. I could see Soubry jumping ship, but Labour defectors tend to be rare. Not to mention, since the election they've been far more obedient to the dear leader (with a few honourable exceptions).
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
I wonder if the Remainers could found a new party, merging with the Lib Dems to do so? Umunna would be a credible PM candidate.
That would be deja vu all over again - except without Roy Jenkins as prospective PM. No the only way that would work is if those leaving Labour and the Tories to form the new party were big enough to form the official opposition (or even the government) - and then advocate/introduce PR.
Caroline Lucas reportedly granted an Urgent Question into the conduct of the Speaker’s Office with regard to sexual harrasment at 15:30 - an hour from now.
Are there any urgent questions planned to be tabled today on Telford? Seems only the trials of middle class women in London and Brighton are of concern to many of our politicians?
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
There's also this... Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."
Let's see how Ferrari do.
Adrian Newey used to live in our village.
I sat next to him at one village dinner/dance and over the evening he said less than the above sentence.
That's because she is approaching this from the Daoist angle: The Way that can be named is not the true Way.
I'm a huge fan of May's version of 'Schrodinger's Brexit'. I mean, who really wants to know what's going to happen next year? I suggest that only pedants and dreary tradespeople care. Uncertainty is bracing and builds character.
Does that mean that Brexit is both dead and alive at the same time?
Mr. Evershed, it amuses me that people cite the SDP but not UKIP or En Marche. Both are more recent, and whilst UKIP was rubbish at Westminster it had great success in its primary aim.
Besides, a new party should have a shedload of Labour MPs on board.
Good afternoon, Miss JGP.
Mr. Cooke, careful, old bean. You might be accused of being culturally insensitive.
Deltapoll sounds like something I'd quietly pick up in the pharmacy! Good luck though, it sounds an ambitious and expensive venture, but both comments about picking up the emotional aspect of political decision-making and the variation sound sensible.
One question about the emotional side - I've heard it said that 1 in 6 voters make up their minds in the polling station. I've never really believed this. So can I ask - have any posters here ever done that? My only example is that I was going to spoil my ballot for the police commissioner (went to vote for the council) but ending up voting loyally as well there, on a whim.
I usually make up my mind in the polling booth. Sometimes I surprise myself.
There's also this... Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."
Let's see how Ferrari do.
Adrian Newey used to live in our village.
I sat next to him at one village dinner/dance and over the evening he said less than the above sentence.
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
Mr. Evershed, it amuses me that people cite the SDP but not UKIP or En Marche. Both are more recent, and whilst UKIP was rubbish at Westminster it had great success in its primary aim.
Besides, a new party should have a shedload of Labour MPs on board.
Good afternoon, Miss JGP.
Mr. Cooke, careful, old bean. You might be accused of being culturally insensitive.
That's okay. I don't think I've ever been in danger of being accused of being sensitive in any sphere.
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
There's also this... Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."
Let's see how Ferrari do.
Adrian Newey used to live in our village.
I sat next to him at one village dinner/dance and over the evening he said less than the above sentence.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
She might not have actually had cancer, I don't know. Not that I disagree.
There's also this... Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."
Let's see how Ferrari do.
Adrian Newey used to live in our village.
I sat next to him at one village dinner/dance and over the evening he said less than the above sentence.
That’s why every Adrian Newey has a Christian Horner to front the operation. F1 is one of those rare industries where both personality types command similar salaries.
Mr. B, pah. My books have far more murdering. And cock jokes.
Now you're engaging in whataboutery and false comparison, Mr.D. I would, of course, advocate purchasing both. Should one have a sufficiently broad spread of interests...
I see the teenager who chucked acid in a load of people’s faces only got 10 years. Although an adult now if he had been it would have been 22 years.
Given this crime is mostly teenagers in gangs doing it to those their are trying to rob or other gang members, not sure 10 years (out in less than 5) is a massive deterrent.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
All of it. Extraordinary. As you say is this the 70s with Benny Hill on loop? Where do these people come from?
Wouldn't it be so much more to the point if somebody investigated just why the generation that voted to Join in the first place changed their minds?
Good afternoon, everybody. (Not long joined the thread and still chasing through the comments.)
We voted to join the Common Market not a political union.
We never voted to join the Common Market, Parliament did. There was a referendum on whether or not to leave it, in 1975. Voters then voted to stay. It was also Parliament that approved the Common Market's changes to a more political union now known as the EU.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
All of it. Extraordinary. As you say is this the 70s with Benny Hill on loop? Where do these people come from?
Karl Turner is, IIRC, the guy who got over-excited about the woman who was taking drugs to her Egyptian husband.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
I see the teenager who chucked acid in a load of people’s faces only got 10 years. Although an adult now if he had been it would have been 22 years.
Given this crime is mostly teenagers in gangs doing it to those their are trying to rob or other gang members, not sure 10 years (out in less than 5) is a massive deterrent.
An acid attack that permenantly disfigured someone should be a life sentence for GBH.
The thugs on bikes need to be put on notice that the police will take them out with cars or guns.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
She might not have actually had cancer, I don't know. Not that I disagree.
She either had it, or had had to make the agonisingly difficult decision to have the mastectomy as a precaution (because she had a precancerous condition or carried BRCA 1 or 2). If the latter it certainly doesn't make the remark any less dreadful - arguably more so, because it stirs doubts as to whether the op was actually necessary.
A shadow minister has been accused of “slapping” the buttocks of a female party member and making offensive sexual remarks about her.
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
The slap on the arse is bad and unacceptable, but WTF about her breasts given he clearly knew what had happened to her. Even in the 70s when men used to snack the arse of their secretary more regularly would have the common decency not to make those kind of comments about somebody who had cancer.
Wouldn't it be so much more to the point if somebody investigated just why the generation that voted to Join in the first place changed their minds?
Good afternoon, everybody. (Not long joined the thread and still chasing through the comments.)
We voted to join the Common Market not a political union.
We never voted to join the Common Market, Parliament did. There was a referendum on whether or not to leave it, in 1975. Voters then voted to stay. It was also Parliament that approved the Common Market's changes to a more political union now known as the EU.
I stand corrected.
We voted to remain in a Common Market - we did not vote to join a political union.
That's how people could vote to Remain in 1975 and vote to Leave in 2017.
Mr. Rentool, well, quite. Comparing media coverage of knee-touching (where the 'victim' really didn't care) in Westminster and a rape gang in Newcastle proves you're right.
Still, thanks goodness Southern and Pettibone have been barred entry to the UK. The nation feels safe again.
I just did some rough but spooky maths.
Population of Rotherham: 250,000 Number of victims in Rotherham: 1500
= 0.6% of population
Population of Telford: 170,000 Number of victims in Telford: 1000
= 0.58% of the population - essentially the same. Spooky, no?
If this 0.6% rule applies across UK, it implies 390,000 victims, nationwide.
Of course it won't apply across the UK, there are far too many variables, in demography and time, but it gives a sense of the scale. There could easily be 50,000 victims nationwide. Maybe 100,000
It is the greatest scandal in modern British history and we refuse to properly address it, and indeed it is continuing. It's just horrific.
Except that the former was over a decade and a half, and (according to the Mirror) the latter over four decades.
That's why I said it won't apply. The identical percentage stats are just an eerie coincidence.
But they do point to the nationwide scale. It's so atrocious it's beyond credibiity, yet it happened.
And now I have to stop being gobsmacked with horror, and do some work. Later.
It would imply that about one in every eighty women were victims. That's horrific.
Both the girl-friends I discussed this with back in the 50’s reported significant ‘abusive’ experiences. However, one was in France and the other Germany.
Can’t remember discussing the subject with any other girl-friends, but my relationship with both those young ladies was ‘significant’; indeed I married the second.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
Wouldn't it be so much more to the point if somebody investigated just why the generation that voted to Join in the first place changed their minds?
Good afternoon, everybody. (Not long joined the thread and still chasing through the comments.)
We voted to join the Common Market not a political union.
We never voted to join the Common Market, Parliament did. There was a referendum on whether or not to leave it, in 1975. Voters then voted to stay. It was also Parliament that approved the Common Market's changes to a more political union now known as the EU.
I stand corrected.
We voted to remain in a Common Market - we did not vote to join a political union.
It was a political union from the beginning. The only question is what form that political union took and evolved into.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
We were taught to keep our hands to ourselves and not to make personal remarks. This was at primary school ffs. When I entered the workforce (as a student) in the mid 70s, casual sexism and harrassment was so common as to be unremarkable; the pats, the stroking, the leering and so on. In my world it died out in the 80s, along with smoking and drink/driving. Maybe I was just living in a bubble.
Mr. Jessop, it's not mostly white men committing gang rape. As for wolf-whistling, that's a hundred miles away from sexual assault. I also absolutely disagree with your 'benefit of the doubt' comment. All people are innocent until proving guilty, presuming guilt is the perverse legal perspective of puritans and Cardassians.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
We were taught to keep our hands to ourselves and not to make personal remarks. This was at primary school ffs. When I entered the workforce (as a student) in the mid 70s, casual sexism and harrassment was so common as to be unremarkable; the pats, the stroking, the leering and so on. In my world it died out in the 80s, along with smoking and drink/driving. Maybe I was just living in a bubble.
I would say, Mr M, that it was the same in my world.
I didn't know this...Old Brian Leveson led the prosecution case in Doddie's tax evasion trial.
Dodd was also revealed to have very little money in his bank account, having £336,000 in cash stashed in suitcases in his attic. When asked by the judge, "What does a hundred thousand pounds in a suitcase feel like?", Dodd made his now famous reply, "The notes are very light, M'Lord
Mr. Jessop, it's not mostly white men committing gang rape. As for wolf-whistling, that's a hundred miles away from sexual assault. I also absolutely disagree with your 'benefit of the doubt' comment. All people are innocent until proving guilty, presuming guilt is the perverse legal perspective of puritans and Cardassians.
It's got the same root cause
"That girl is not of my religion, so she is less worthy and I can do what I want to her." "That naughty boy is less faithful than me, so I can abuse him." "That waitress earns less than me, and so I can touch her up."
It's men treating women as less than them. In the case of Muslim gangs, it's treating them as lesser because they're often not of the same religion, or some other stupid excuse. In the case of priests, because they had the power and the boys or girls did not. In the case of the Presidents Club, because they had money and the waitresses did not.
Yes, the scale is different. But it all adds up to an utterly rotten atmosphere for women in many places. And that's what we're seeing a reaction to.
58% of British voters thinking the EU is handling Brexit badly should be a wake up for the Soubrys and Umunnas of the world. I presume they don't think the EU is being too soft.
British voters think the EU is handling Brexit badly for the EU or for the UK? You might want to be part of an organisation that drives a hard bargain for its members.
On topic, always good to have additional sources of information and analysis. I wish Deltapoll success.
Mr. Jessop, the scale is not merely different, the behaviour is so wildly different as to not even be comparable. For example, the waitresses chose to be at the President's Club. The victims at Rotherham often went to the police and were ignored or even handed back to their abusers.
The most serious cases must be addressed with the utmost urgency. Instead we get everything wrapped together and more media and political attention focused on a journalist's knee than on a Newcastle rape gang. Because when the perpetrators are white men, the media and political class is very comfortable going after them. But when they're Pakistani Muslims, it's a bit more uncomfortable.
I'm not saying low level stuff like touching or even really obnoxious comments don't matter. But when you've got cancer and a slight headache, you prioritise the cancer.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
What a bizarre post. If you want to excoriate yourself for committing atrocities in your heart (or in real life, for that matter) go ahead, perhaps in a more appropriate forum, but leave other white men to speak for themselves, perhaps? Most people don't have to be "taught in school" not to pat bottoms or wolf whistle. Your reaction to the President's Club thing was one great mansplanation of how your judgment was better than that of the women who decided to take the job, and of the female FT reporter who covered the story, and of the GOSH trustees who are now happy to take the money, and now it turns out that you've got the moral drop on all white men, as well as all women. Also, check out Rotherham and Telford before going all in on the "mostly white men" theory.
It really must have been the way that he told them.
It was - my wife and I met him after a function we attended and he was charming and just good company. He also had a good voice and tears and happiness were enormous hits.
He did a lot of good charity work and was a great friend of a lady in our Village who was a prodigious charity fund raiser
We were taught to keep our hands to ourselves and not to make personal remarks. This was at primary school ffs. When I entered the workforce (as a student) in the mid 70s, casual sexism and harrassment was so common as to be unremarkable; the pats, the stroking, the leering and so on. In my world it died out in the 80s, along with smoking and drink/driving. Maybe I was just living in a bubble.
Yet as we're hearing, it's still going on. Both at the very top of society to the very bottom (no pun intended). Talk to young women about their experiences. It may be less common than it was, but it's still going on.
For me, Ross Noble...but mileage may vary from night to night as most of his show is unscripted and relies on the audience willing to play along. Last time I saw him, a couple of people were really comfortable interacting with him and had some quite witty banter.
Mr. Jessop, worth noting that a few years ago a report into such things (unwanted sexual advances in Westminster) found that most of those on the receiving end were male.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
What a bizarre post. If you want to excoriate yourself for committing atrocities in your heart (or in real life, for that matter) go ahead, perhaps in a more appropriate forum, but leave other white men to speak for themselves, perhaps? Most people don't have to be "taught in school" not to pat bottoms or wolf whistle. Your reaction to the President's Club thing was one great mansplanation of how your judgment was better than that of the women who decided to take the job, and of the female FT reporter who covered the story, and of the GOSH trustees who are now happy to take the money, and now it turns out that you've got the moral drop on all white men, as well as all women. Also, check out Rotherham and Telford before going all in on the "mostly white men" theory.
The only thing bizarre is your reaction. Oh, and your lack of paragraphs.
You repeatedly misunderstand my reaction to the Presidents Club, I'm guessing for your own reasons.
But to make it clear: I'm not saying I'm more moral than anybody else; I'm trying to make people understand why we're in the mess we're in.
And again, I've not got a 'mostly white men' theory; you need to actually read my post, which is about abuse of all types in general.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
What a bizarre post. If you want to excoriate yourself for committing atrocities in your heart (or in real life, for that matter) go ahead, perhaps in a more appropriate forum, but leave other white men to speak for themselves, perhaps? Most people don't have to be "taught in school" not to pat bottoms or wolf whistle. Your reaction to the President's Club thing was one great mansplanation of how your judgment was better than that of the women who decided to take the job, and of the female FT reporter who covered the story, and of the GOSH trustees who are now happy to take the money, and now it turns out that you've got the moral drop on all white men, as well as all women. Also, check out Rotherham and Telford before going all in on the "mostly white men" theory.
The only thing bizarre is your reaction. Oh, and your lack of paragraphs.
You repeatedly misunderstand my reaction to the Presidents Club, I'm guessing for your own reasons.
But to make it clear: I'm not saying I'm more moral than anybody else; I'm trying to make people understand why we're in the mess we're in.
And again, I've not got a 'mostly white men' theory; you need to actually read my post, which is about abuse of all types in general.
"it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser". in general. LOL.
For me, Ross Noble...but mileage may vary from night to night as most of his show is unscripted and relies on the audience willing to play along. Last time I saw him, a couple of people were really comfortable interacting with him and had some quite witty banter.
He had fun with a former colleague of mine when he discovered he'd fallen off the bridge over the River Kwai.....
Mr. Jessop, worth noting that a few years ago a report into such things (unwanted sexual advances in Westminster) found that most of those on the receiving end were male.
Indeed, and I've always made it clear that abuse can happen in all ways between genders: male-female, female-male, male-male, female-female etc, etc.
But in the case of workplace abuse (as at Westminster), the 'lesser' idea will still fit.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
I don't accept the doctrine of male collective guilt.
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
Please don't say Asian. Nothing to do with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians or Atheists.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
I don't accept the doctrine of male collective guilt.
I don't want to, but sadly that's the situation we've ended up in. 'Our' (male) attitudes to those 'lesser' than ourselves, and especially women, has been poor for too long, even whilst 'we've' known such behaviour is wrong.
It's a pisser, because most men aren't like that. But as abuses in parliament, Presidents Club and elsewhere show, it occurs from the bottom to the very top of society.
Too many men have been getting away with absolutely shitty behaviour towards women personally and directly, and too many others have been turning a blind eye or excusing it.
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
Please don't say Asian. Nothing to do with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians or Atheists.
True or very largely true. If you strip those out of 3.3% the figure is likely to become even more alarming. In fact it is likely to be shocking.
Mr. Elliot, an astute point. A generation (mostly, but not entirely, white and female) is being taught the authorities don't give a shit if they're repeatedly abused. It's vital that the mainstream actually address this rather than colluding, covering up and focusing on knee-touching in Westminster. Otherwise I fear we could see a massive shift to the far right.
It's not that a generation is being taught that authorities don't give a shit about them; it's just that they've learnt that other people (mostly white men) routinely treat them as lesser. This shows itself in a whole spectrum of ways, from full-scale rape to wolf-whistling and pats on the bottom.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
I don't accept the doctrine of male collective guilt.
I don't want to, but sadly that's the situation we've ended up in. 'Our' (male) attitudes to those 'lesser' than ourselves, and especially women, has been poor for too long, even whilst 'we've' known such behaviour is wrong.
It's a pisser, because most men aren't like that. But as abuses in parliament, Presidents Club and elsewhere show, it occurs from the bottom to the very top of society.
Too many men have been getting away with absolutely shitty behaviour towards women personally and directly, and too many others have been turning a blind eye or excusing it.
That's like saying that because child abuse has been widespread for decades, any adults who are accused of child abuse have lost the right to the presumption of innocence. So, then charlatans like "Nick" get taken seriously.
Some men behave badly towards women and children Some women behave badly towards men and children. Judge people as individuals, rather than deeming them collectively to be oppressors or victims.
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
Please don't say Asian. Nothing to do with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians or Atheists.
Asia is a bloody huge place. If you say "asian" in the US, people expect you to mean./.. Chinese
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
Please don't say Asian. Nothing to do with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians or Atheists.
True or very largely true. If you strip those out of 3.3% the figure is likely to become even more alarming. In fact it is likely to be shocking.
The majority of the world's population lives in Asia - over 4 billion people. 'Asian' is therefore hardly a particularly targeted description is it? South Asian might be more targeted?
You might as well therefore say Europeans poisoned the ex Russian spy. Because using the term Russian might be considered insensitive? Cos Russians are mostly Europeans aren they - although if they were from Siberia we could call their agents Asian too?
According to Wiki Telford has 3.3% Asian population. In a town of 170k that amounts to 5,610. If the national average applies 54% of those are female making the men 2,580, including children. An average of 16.6% of the population are under 16. I suspect for the Asian community with higher than average families that may be on the low side. That reduces the number of adult Asian men, including pensioners of course, to 2,152.
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
Please don't say Asian. Nothing to do with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians or Atheists.
True or very largely true. If you strip those out of 3.3% the figure is likely to become even more alarming. In fact it is likely to be shocking.
The majority of the world's population lives in Asia - over 4 billion people. 'Asian' is therefore hardly a particularly targeted description is it? South Asian might be more targeted?
Wiki doesn't have the stats for that but that is really what we are looking for. I have not been able to find them on the Telford and Wrekin website either.
That's like saying that because child abuse has been widespread for decades, any adults who are accused of child abuse have lost the right to the presumption of innocence. So, then charlatans like "Nick" get taken seriously.
Some men behave badly towards women and children Some women behave badly towards men and children. Judge people as individuals, rather than deeming them collectively to be oppressors or victims.
No it isn't, because thankfully child abuse isn't as widespread.
I talk to a lot of women: friends and mothers of other kids. If you carefully broach the topic, it's amazing how many have suffered minor abuse of various sorts, in the workplace and in public. Most of it is minor, but it all adds up if it happens frequently.
One lady, intelligent and highly-educated, in a good job, said she has to actively avoid being alone with a certain manager, who is known to be a bit dodgy. The management do nothing about it. Since the company is fairly well known in the industry, they're playing with fire.
That's like saying that because child abuse has been widespread for decades, any adults who are accused of child abuse have lost the right to the presumption of innocence. So, then charlatans like "Nick" get taken seriously.
Some men behave badly towards women and children Some women behave badly towards men and children. Judge people as individuals, rather than deeming them collectively to be oppressors or victims.
No it isn't, because thankfully child abuse isn't as widespread.
I talk to a lot of women: friends and mothers of other kids. If you carefully broach the topic, it's amazing how many have suffered minor abuse of various sorts, in the workplace and in public. Most of it is minor, but it all adds up if it happens frequently.
One lady, intelligent and highly-educated, in a good job, said she has to actively avoid being alone with a certain manager, who is known to be a bit dodgy. The management do nothing about it. Since the company is fairly well known in the industry, they're playing with fire.
I doubt if I have ever met a woman who has not at some point, encountered a flasher, or a groper. But, I don't think that says very much about us as a society. There will always be people whose behaviour is transgressive. We've been punishing crimes for centuries, but we still haven't eradicated crime.
Comments
Same for every Lab MP not a fan of Corbyn
"A witness told the Financial Times that those present were shocked to have seen Karl Turner, Labour’s transport spokesman, “slap” a woman’s backside as she walked through his constituency office in the summer of 2015.The witnesses have also alleged the MP for Hull East told the woman, who had had a double mastectomy, that she “shouldn’t have got rid of her real tits because they were great”.
https://www.ft.com/content/c2e5a5aa-22be-11e8-add1-0e8958b189ea
In any event, it seems likely that there will be calls for a further enquiry (and not before time):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-43371805
And a lot of them seem to be ignoring the Mirror scoop investigation on child sex abuse.
No the only way that would work is if those leaving Labour and the Tories to form the new party were big enough to form the official opposition (or even the government) - and then advocate/introduce PR.
It takes time for everyone else to catch up.
Good afternoon, everybody. (Not long joined the thread and still chasing through the comments.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita,_Sue_and_Bob_Too
For once I do think we have to be a bit more SeanT about this.
That's horrific.
Adrian Newey used to live in our village.
I sat next to him at one village dinner/dance and over the evening he said less than the above sentence.
Open the box - or take the money?
Besides, a new party should have a shedload of Labour MPs on board.
Good afternoon, Miss JGP.
Mr. Cooke, careful, old bean. You might be accused of being culturally insensitive.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Build-Car-Autobiography-Greatest/dp/000819680X
(Is he just a bit shy ?)
I don't think I've ever been in danger of being accused of being sensitive in any sphere.
(Thanks for the reminder to read his book).
I would, of course, advocate purchasing both. Should one have a sufficiently broad spread of interests...
And Sky are repeating it at every opportunity
Given this crime is mostly teenagers in gangs doing it to those their are trying to rob or other gang members, not sure 10 years (out in less than 5) is a massive deterrent.
There was a referendum on whether or not to leave it, in 1975. Voters then voted to stay.
It was also Parliament that approved the Common Market's changes to a more political union now known as the EU.
The thugs on bikes need to be put on notice that the police will take them out with cars or guns.
We voted to remain in a Common Market - we did not vote to join a political union.
That's how people could vote to Remain in 1975 and vote to Leave in 2017.
Can’t remember discussing the subject with any other girl-friends, but my relationship with both those young ladies was ‘significant’; indeed I married the second.
If we men treated women (and others) as equals, and not as lessers, then much of this sh*t wouldn't happen.
I was taught in school that you shouldn't wolf-whistle, shouldn't pat on bottoms, etc. We men have known this behaviour is wrong since the 1970s, and yet it still goes on. And it finally looks as though society may have had enough.
The problems of 'knee touching in Westminster' is a reaction to this; because we men have behaved so poorly, we have lost all rights to the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, but understandably.
As we saw on here with some posters' reaction to the Presidents Club; some sadly believe it's alright to treat women as lessers if you are rich and powerful.
"Ken Dodd died today"
"Did he?"
"No, Doddie."
Dodd was also revealed to have very little money in his bank account, having £336,000 in cash stashed in suitcases in his attic. When asked by the judge, "What does a hundred thousand pounds in a suitcase feel like?", Dodd made his now famous reply, "The notes are very light, M'Lord
"That girl is not of my religion, so she is less worthy and I can do what I want to her."
"That naughty boy is less faithful than me, so I can abuse him."
"That waitress earns less than me, and so I can touch her up."
It's men treating women as less than them. In the case of Muslim gangs, it's treating them as lesser because they're often not of the same religion, or some other stupid excuse. In the case of priests, because they had the power and the boys or girls did not. In the case of the Presidents Club, because they had money and the waitresses did not.
Yes, the scale is different. But it all adds up to an utterly rotten atmosphere for women in many places. And that's what we're seeing a reaction to.
On topic, always good to have additional sources of information and analysis. I wish Deltapoll success.
It really must have been the way that he told them.
The most serious cases must be addressed with the utmost urgency. Instead we get everything wrapped together and more media and political attention focused on a journalist's knee than on a Newcastle rape gang. Because when the perpetrators are white men, the media and political class is very comfortable going after them. But when they're Pakistani Muslims, it's a bit more uncomfortable.
I'm not saying low level stuff like touching or even really obnoxious comments don't matter. But when you've got cancer and a slight headache, you prioritise the cancer.
He did a lot of good charity work and was a great friend of a lady in our Village who was a prodigious charity fund raiser
Yet it can change. A couple of decades ago the construction industry decided that wolf-whistling from workers on building sites was bad, so it was addressed as part of the Considerate Constructors scheme. Somewhat successfully, as it happened:
https://www.ccscheme.org.uk/scheme-applauds-wolf-whistling-ban/
http://www.ccscheme.org.uk/industry-image/indexphp/component/content/article/19-issue-25/374-no-whistling-at-work.html
It has to be clear that it is unacceptable amongst colleagues and peers. Instead, too many people just snigger and make excuses.
For me, Ross Noble...but mileage may vary from night to night as most of his show is unscripted and relies on the audience willing to play along. Last time I saw him, a couple of people were really comfortable interacting with him and had some quite witty banter.
You repeatedly misunderstand my reaction to the Presidents Club, I'm guessing for your own reasons.
But to make it clear: I'm not saying I'm more moral than anybody else; I'm trying to make people understand why we're in the mess we're in.
And again, I've not got a 'mostly white men' theory; you need to actually read my post, which is about abuse of all types in general.
But he has more misses than hits.
As I said this morning, even as a twelve year old, I thought his humour puerile - but dragged along to a live show, I was unable not to laugh.
But in the case of workplace abuse (as at Westminster), the 'lesser' idea will still fit.
we just need to learn from Bill and Ted :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yJFLvmjJY
Here are another two not on the list:
I always knew I would be a comedian, when I was born my Dad came to the hospital and asked 'is this a joke?'
I wanted to take my dog for obedience training - but he refused to go!
If there have indeed been 1,000 victims of Asian gangs over the last 40 years then it is deeply alarming to consider what proportion of that Asian, adult, male population may have had some involvement. It is very unlikely to be under 10%. It is equally concerning to consider whether the remainder really had no idea what was going on in their midst or simply looked the other way.
Of course it is true that society in general has not cared enough about these children. The failure to act by the authorities over that time is a disgrace and a national shame. But anyone who refuses to recognise that there is not a major problem with the cultural attitudes and behaviours of one of our minorities is simply not facing the facts.
It's a pisser, because most men aren't like that. But as abuses in parliament, Presidents Club and elsewhere show, it occurs from the bottom to the very top of society.
Too many men have been getting away with absolutely shitty behaviour towards women personally and directly, and too many others have been turning a blind eye or excusing it.
Some men behave badly towards women and children Some women behave badly towards men and children. Judge people as individuals, rather than deeming them collectively to be oppressors or victims.
You might as well therefore say Europeans poisoned the ex Russian spy. Because using the term Russian might be considered insensitive? Cos Russians are mostly Europeans aren they - although if they were from Siberia we could call their agents Asian too?
I talk to a lot of women: friends and mothers of other kids. If you carefully broach the topic, it's amazing how many have suffered minor abuse of various sorts, in the workplace and in public. Most of it is minor, but it all adds up if it happens frequently.
One lady, intelligent and highly-educated, in a good job, said she has to actively avoid being alone with a certain manager, who is known to be a bit dodgy. The management do nothing about it. Since the company is fairly well known in the industry, they're playing with fire.
http://www.telford.gov.uk/downloads/file/1503/2011_census_profile_telford_and_wrekin
Military grade nerve agent used and it is highly likely Russia was responsible
Liked this..
http://www.walesoncraic.com/bob-carolgees-hires-jamie-carragher/
http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/10/barcelona-cocaine-capital-europe-bristol-top-uk-7376219/