Bored with-not of BTW-Trump threads.I have down as a personality disorder which is dissociative by which I mean he thinks he is starring as President in his own reality TV show.This is not classified as "mental illness"under UK mental health legislation but his sociopathy makes him dangerous as well as his DPD.It is his complete inability to empathise with any other human and his apparent lack of any moral conscience that makes him a big risk.This may be referred to as pyschopathy but,in any case,to get to the bottom of Trump's problem you will require at least 3 forensic psychs to agree,1 of which would be in his pay. So,all in all my assessment of Trump's mental health,means he should probably be closely monitored at all times by mental health specialists or else in a secure environment with his movements restricted. Trump will last though.He knows how to play for time and has to actually do something with dire consequences before we can act which could be too late for us all.All one can do is support the resistance movement in the USA and hope,as an elderly lady said to me at the bus-stop "someone need to put a bullet in his brains".
Oh goody, looks like UKIP are going to give us more entertainment.
UKIP's demise is excellent news for the Tories and makes Corbyn's job of becoming PM more difficult
I'd have thought it may be more difficult to predict - surely Tories have regained a lot of the former Tory UKIPers, Labour's position may be unclear but Corbyn is pretty Brexity, and in any case those remaining with UKIP at present might include a sizable number determined not to vote for one of the big two under any circumstances.
I was meaning no return to higher level of UKIP support .........
Sad to watch now. Farage should've stayed on with a view to disbanding the party on Brexit day.
If Farage does launch a new party it will be very interesting to see how he positions it. In fact probably the most important question in British politics over the next couple of weeks.
I think Farage is damaged goods politically since he aligned himself with Trump.
Trump in the UK is political death for anyone associated with him.
We have had Thatcher morphing into Hague in the past in political advertising, fast forward to the future and Trump morphing into Farage is the obvious interpretation of any new political project involving Farage.
As if he wasn't already going to win, Russia ramping up the Putin glorification apparently.
Putin cast as national saviour ahead of Russia election
Its core argument was that the state is the sacred centre of Russian life, the subject of periodic catastrophes throughout history, before each time being rescued and revived in new glory by divine intervention.
After the October Revolution destroyed the Russian Empire, the conduit for this miracle was Joseph Stalin, who created a new, glorious Red Empire, according to Prokhanov. That mythology glosses over Stalin's gross human rights abuses.
After the next perceived disaster - the collapse of the Soviet Union - the saviour was Vladimir Putin, Prokhanov argues, adding that the result is the latest Russian golden age - the "Fifth Empire
Bored with-not of BTW-Trump threads.I have down as a personality disorder which is dissociative by which I mean he thinks he is starring as President in his own reality TV show.This is not classified as "mental illness"under UK mental health legislation but his sociopathy makes him dangerous as well as his DPD.It is his complete inability to empathise with any other human and his apparent lack of any moral conscience that makes him a big risk.This may be referred to as pyschopathy but,in any case,to get to the bottom of Trump's problem you will require at least 3 forensic psychs to agree,1 of which would be in his pay. So,all in all my assessment of Trump's mental health,means he should probably be closely monitored at all times by mental health specialists or else in a secure environment with his movements restricted. Trump will last though.He knows how to play for time and has to actually do something with dire consequences before we can act which could be too late for us all.All one can do is support the resistance movement in the USA and hope,as an elderly lady said to me at the bus-stop "someone need to put a bullet in his brains".
Well, yes, but the other day you thought that penis envy was something males suffer from in Freudian psychology, and you diagnosed it in Trump from the fact that he has very small hands (I am not making that up). Have you changed your mind about any of that?
Setting off a med media scramble to get the scoop.... Rumoured current WH staffer.... and I guess if you look only at those who have been around for a while and not been sacked, that might narrow the field a bit... allegedly.
You might Hope so
We shouldn't listen to the word of some hick reporter.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Betting thoughts on UKIP: I doubt Farage will stand (the prize just isn't worth it) and UKIP's membership is now pretty small so any contest would be massively unpredictable. Probably just lay the favourites if anyone is shorter than 4/1 on Betfair (other than Farage, just in case he does run he'd surely win).
Doubt there's any liquidity though.
EDIT: Turns out there isn't even a market yet. Consider this my guess in advance then.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
Setting off a med media scramble to get the scoop.... Rumoured current WH staffer.... and I guess if you look only at those who have been around for a while and not been sacked, that might narrow the field a bit... allegedly.
You might Hope so
We shouldn't listen to the word of some hick reporter.
There’s more than one... it should be Hicks
I Hope you are joking.
If a female staffer has to resign over allegations of an affair, will Trump's position be Hopeless?
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
Ouch. What a horrible story.
And earlier today we find that Labour are offering different ticket prices to black and white delegates (which is surely illegal)?
Do these people really not have any self-awareness?
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
"Publishers have been cowed into silence"
That's the real problem, right there. If you give in to the mob once, you will be forever at their mercy.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
And if the current generation on mature reflection has changed its mind and wants to stay in, why shouldn't it? You seem rightly worried about Leavers' inability to convert sceptics.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
And if the current generation on mature reflection has changed its mind and wants to stay in, why shouldn't it? You seem rightly worried about Leavers' inability to convert sceptics.
The 'mature reflection' at the moment is that the majority think the decision should be respected.
Mr. T, not surprised. It's alarming, but the world the mad now happily reside in. There was a protest today by the Cenotaph with banners side by side proclaiming "No to racism" and "No country for old white men".
Reading lists without whites/men have been wibbled about on Twitter, and a week or two ago the BBC advertised a trainee position for non-whites.
It's poisonous, and it's only going to get worse. The Labour Party is one wellspring for this kinder, gentler politics, when they decided to follow a man who describes anti-Semites and homophobic murderers as 'friends'.
Cultural appropriation and micro-aggressions are just tools of control and censorship, little different to a 14th century nun following you around, ringing a bell and crying "Shame!".
Remainer predicts opportunity to overturn Brexit. Let’s file this under wishful thinking.
As a fairly ardent Remainer, I think it's pretty clear that Lord Kerr is a brilliant legal mind and equally clear that he's not much for political insight. That's not surprising or meant to disparage - expertise doesn't normally translate across different areas, but he'd do well to follow David Beckham's example and stick (at least when in public) to what he's good at.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
And if the current generation on mature reflection has changed its mind and wants to stay in, why shouldn't it? You seem rightly worried about Leavers' inability to convert sceptics.
The 'mature reflection' at the moment is that the majority think the decision should be respected.
I don't think there is currently any ground for a second referendum. But your pant-wetting at the very idea is indicative of a just fear that Leave have failed to convince.
Mr. T, not surprised. It's alarming, but the world the mad now happily reside in. There was a protest today by the Cenotaph with banners side by side proclaiming "No to racism" and "No country for old white men".
Reading lists without whites/men have been wibbled about on Twitter, and a week or two ago the BBC advertised a trainee position for non-whites.
It's poisonous, and it's only going to get worse. The Labour Party is one wellspring for this kinder, gentler politics, when they decided to follow a man who describes anti-Semites and homophobic murderers as 'friends'.
Cultural appropriation and micro-aggressions are just tools of control and censorship, little different to a 14th century nun following you around, ringing a bell and crying "Shame!".
They are fools. Trump shows what happens when you arouse the sleeping giant that is majoritarian identity politics.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
"Publishers have been cowed into silence"
That's the real problem, right there. If you give in to the mob once, you will be forever at their mercy.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
Hold on, what if the present population have decided that Leave won in 2016 on utter lies and a deluded fantasy? As the Immigration that will continue not from Europe but India, Pakistan and African nations? What about the absence of £350 Million a week for the Health service? We have witnessed the inability of Boris and his fellow ministers to deliver a "having our cake and eating it Brexit?".
A possibility does arrive that Boris may decide that after a period of negotiation the terms of Brexit are not as good as being a member of the EU and so the UK will remain.
You might not like it and don't vote in future elections if you feel that way but all politicians will always let you down in the end whether you are left, right or centre.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
Witch hunts eventually collapse under the weight of their own absurdity.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
And if the current generation on mature reflection has changed its mind and wants to stay in, why shouldn't it? You seem rightly worried about Leavers' inability to convert sceptics.
The 'mature reflection' at the moment is that the majority think the decision should be respected.
I don't think there is currently any ground for a second referendum. But your pant-wetting at the very idea is indicative of a just fear that Leave have failed to convince.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
Ouch. What a horrible story.
And earlier today we find that Labour are offering different ticket prices to black and white delegates (which is surely illegal)?
Do these people really not have any self-awareness?
I can’t see how it isn’t illegal to offer different event ticket prices to blacks and whites. The question is will any of the membership dare to call them out by reporting it?
Mr. Blue, less likely to happen here. British identity has been more effectively diminished by a combination of non-English devolution and overblown praise for multiculturalism, thought English nationalism could yet rise.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
I would write under an assumed name in those circumstances, many fine authors in the past have used this conduit and given your friends acrimonious relations with her peer group. I suspect it would be the correct path to follow, indeed she might increase sales under a new name.
How is having a referendum a breakdown in democracy? The British constitution is not written down or a codified constitution, so anything including Brexit can change.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
Hold on, what if the present population have decided that Leave won in 2016 on utter lies and a deluded fantasy? As the Immigration that will continue not from Europe but India, Pakistan and African nations? What about the absence of £350 Million a week for the Health service? We have witnessed the inability of Boris and his fellow ministers to deliver a "having our cake and eating it Brexit?".
A possibility does arrive that Boris may decide that after a period of negotiation the terms of Brexit are not as good as being a member of the EU and so the UK will remain.
You might not like it and don't vote in future elections if you feel that way but all politicians will always let you down in the end whether you are left, right or centre.
This wasn't just a regular election with politicians going back on the manifestos. This was a watershed moment in British politics that brought in huge numbers of people to vote that didn't bother normally. Politicians turning around saying: 'nah, doesn't seem possible after all' would have a huge negative impact, and would really rub people noses in it.
Do you want the rise of the hard-right as a real political force? That's one possibility.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
Ouch. What a horrible story.
And earlier today we find that Labour are offering different ticket prices to black and white delegates (which is surely illegal)?
Do these people really not have any self-awareness?
I can’t see how it isn’t illegal to offer different event ticket prices to blacks and whites. The question is will any of the membership dare to call them out by reporting it?
Anyone could report them, it doesn't have to be a member or anyone who might want to buy a ticket, for example if I saw a sign in a shop window saying 'No Blacks' I could report them, I don't have to be a customer of the shop or black myself.
I don't think there is currently any ground for a second referendum. But your pant-wetting at the very idea is indicative of a just fear that Leave have failed to convince.
We have had 18 months of pant-wetting by Remain because they have already failed to convince. Hence the best-of-three strategy from the damp-gussets.....
I can only see a second referendum taking place under the following scenario. Boris goes out of his was to push for an ultra-hard Brexit and scupper whatever deal Theresa eventually gets. Theresa then calls a second referendum as a kind of 'who governs Brexit' device, secretly hoping for a Remain win as that will destroy the Boris magic and leave him a broken failure. Theresa will then go on and on.
As a fairly ardent Remainer, I think it's pretty clear that Lord Kerr is a brilliant legal mind ... [snip]
But not, apparently, sufficiently brilliant to be able to draft a paragraph which makes it clear whether a notice can be withdrawn during the notice period.
I can only see a second referendum taking place under the following scenario. Boris goes out of his was to push for an ultra-hard Brexit and scupper whatever deal Theresa eventually gets. Theresa then calls a second referendum as a kind of 'who governs Brexit' device, secretly hoping for a Remain win as that will destroy the Boris magic and leave him a broken failure. Theresa will then go on and on.
Can she simply 'call' a second referendum? I think it would require an act of Parliament.
I can only see a second referendum taking place under the following scenario. Boris goes out of his was to push for an ultra-hard Brexit and scupper whatever deal Theresa eventually gets. Theresa then calls a second referendum as a kind of 'who governs Brexit' device, secretly hoping for a Remain win as that will destroy the Boris magic and leave him a broken failure. Theresa will then go on and on.
Can she simply 'call' a second referendum? I think it would require an act of Parliament.
I think you'd easily get a majority for it in both houses and the legislation could be fast tracked as long as they don't try to mess around with the franchise.
I don't think there is currently any ground for a second referendum. But your pant-wetting at the very idea is indicative of a just fear that Leave have failed to convince.
We have had 18 months of pant-wetting by Remain because they have already failed to convince. Hence the best-of-three strategy from the damp-gussets.....
They failed to realise that the time for convincing was before we all voted on the subject 18 months ago.
I have a very good female friend born in the Caribbean, mixed race, mainly white. She has written fine novels about growing up in the Caribbean, she is very virtuously leftwing (naively so perhaps), she has told me to my face "you are my only Tory friend", y'know, coz Tories = evil. I tried hard not to slap her, and succeeded.
We remain friends because she is usually great fun: generous, thoughtful, sensitive, witty, insightful, smart, a good person and a good companion.
Well, now she is reaping what she sowed. Trendy black Caribbean writers (mostly men) have recently and successively turned on her and denounced her and said she, as a mixed race, mainly white Caribbean, simply is not allowed to write about black characters, people, experience, the Caribbean in general, any more. Finito. Career over.
They have accused her of cultural appropriation, white privilege, outright racism, literary colonialism, the works. Publishers have been cowed into silence, she is now basically unpublishable, she is close to suicide I think.
That is the modern British left, and the Left in America, Germany, Sweden, etc. Identity politics is like some virus sending them ever closer to insanity.
I thank the Lord I was born an evil rightwinger and that I am daily spared the vicious internecine horror of being a good lefty, as it is now experienced.
Witch hunts eventually collapse under the weight of their own absurdity.
Yes, as Maoism collapsed, as ISIS collapsed, as the Khmer Rouge collapsed (and they all specialised in this particular lefty-fascist holier-than-thou viciousness). And of course the French Revolution devoured, famously, its own children, in its eerie bid for purity. Robespierre himself ended up guillotined, after spending the night in the cell which once held Marie Antoinette,
The problem is an AWFUL lot of witches can get burned before sanity is restored.
May doesn't want one and has said we won't have one.
Corbyn doesn't want one and has said we won't have one.
Unless Vince Cable becomes PM by the Autumn I really don't see how we will have one? Cos parliament has to agree it and the government has to propose it,
Channel 4’s terrible week continues - they have pulled tonights Despatches.
“”Peter Lilley, a Cabinet minister in John Major's government, said he will report Channel 4 to Ofcom over what he described as a "tawdry attempt at entrapment" and the programme's refusal to release a transcript to allow him answer its claims.”
Ah, it's like the good old days when the Jacobites used to raise their glasses and toast the King referendum across the water.
Still, I suppose people want to cling to a glimmer of hope that Jeremy isn't really anti-EU and somehow the parliamentary arithmetic for another referendum can be made to work. Magical thinking in my view, but *shrug* let's see.
No, you actually said voting was not democratic. I was giving you some help...
You seem to be claiming that the referendum was not democratic. We voted on that before. Voting again to get "the right answer" doesn't meet your criteria for democracy.
No, you actually said voting was not democratic. I was giving you some help...
You seem to be claiming that the referendum was not democratic. We voted on that before. Voting again to get "the right answer" doesn't meet your criteria for democracy.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
There is a difference between campaigning for something you believe in and demanding that the same question be asked over and over until you get a result you like.
But that would be Democracy - electing far right politicians (I would NOT welcome it). It is unlikely to happen anyway as first past the post tends to 'strangle at birth' new political movements. UKIP only prospered under PR.
Leave may have won the battle but I think they have lost the war. People voted for Leave for so many different reasons. The people I encountered on the day did so for these reasons: 1. Stop Immigration. 2. £350 for the NHS per week. 3. Bring back Manufacturing. Not one person I encountered mentioned parliamentary sovereignty, which is the only thing Brexit might bring back if they can even manage that. It was all a complete waste of time and caused by Cameron being too clever by half. You were sold a lie as a Leave supporter as I was as a Remain supporter. The cessation of mass immigration and the money for the NHS are the largest falsehoods I have witnessed in politics in my life time.
You talk about people walking away from democracy if Brexit is not implemented but what about those who voted to end Immigration and £350 Million for the NHS? You are only interested in democracy if the result you want is delivered. If another referendum is foisted on the UK (I hope it is not) and it reverses Brexit on a bigger turnout and larger number of votes. What do you have to say about that> It is undemocratic - I suppose?
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Maybe until Mr Junker had announced his grand plans for an EU military, an EU Treasury and a FTT payable to the EU directly, all of which we were promised wouldn’t happen before we voted in 2016.
There is a difference between campaigning for something you believe in and demanding that the same question be asked over and over until you get a result you like.
So you would campaign for changing without a vote?
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Maybe until Mr Junker had announced his grand plans for an EU military, an EU Treasury and a FTT payable to the EU directly, all of which we were promised wouldn’t happen before we voted in 2016.
You forgot to mention Turkey's accession to the EU!
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Presumably this is in the imaginary General Election we're going to have this year?
Nah maybe in the 2027 GE, if Brexit turns out to be a mistake in the eyes of the voters.
In that case, I agree. I still don't think any political party is going to make article 49 part of their manifesto any time soon, but in principle, sure. Equally, campaigning to either leave or join the EU is practically the national sport these days, we should probably award scouting badges.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
What percentage did parties advocating Brexit get?
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
I would like to know how democratic it is to offer two specific proposed benefits in a referendum and then not deliver on them. To turn around your proposition on political engagement: People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
But, she still won.
And parties that were committed to Remain fared poorly.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
But, she still won.
And parties that were committed to Remain fared poorly.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
I would like to know how democratic it is to offer two specific proposed benefits in a referendum and then not deliver on them. To turn around your proposition on political engagement: People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
Do you think that is acceptable?
Was it acceptable of Remain to campaign for a ‘status quo’ when many people in Europe are planning to deepen integration further? Some even want a United States of Europe by 2025...
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
What percentage did parties advocating Brexit get?
I voted for a party despite their policy on Brexit as did others I know did. You cannot lump voters into Box A or Box B like that. I also disliked both main party leaders. Neither main party achieved a majority and indeed it has been speculated in the last month or two that their is a majority in parliament for Remain or No Brexit. So that nullifies your argument.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
I would like to know how democratic it is to offer two specific proposed benefits in a referendum and then not deliver on them. To turn around your proposition on political engagement: People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
Do you think that is acceptable?
The level of net immigration has fallen since the Brexit vote took place, and by 2021 or thereabouts, expenditure on the NHS will be about £350 a week higher than in 2016.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
I’d file that under “ whataboutery”
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can rejoin without a referendum.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
Indeed and something the political class seems to have gone very quiet on was the failure of May in regards of parliamentary mandate to deliver Brexit. She went backwards when she asked for the peoples reiteration of the previous years result to be transferred from referendum into parliamentary representatives.
What percentage did parties advocating Brexit get?
I voted for a party despite their policy on Brexit as did others I know did. You cannot lump voters into Box A or Box B like that. I also disliked both main party leaders. Neither main party achieved a majority and indeed it has been speculated in the last month or two that their is a majority in parliament for Remain or No Brexit. So that nullifies your argument.
But, when it came to it, Parliament voted to trigger A50, and the Commons gave a Third Reading to the Withdrawal Bill.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
I would like to know how democratic it is to offer two specific proposed benefits in a referendum and then not deliver on them. To turn around your proposition on political engagement: People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
Do you think that is acceptable?
Was it acceptable of Remain to campaign for a ‘status quo’ when many people in Europe are planning to deepen integration further? Some even want a United States of Europe by 2025...
The UK could opt out as it has done on the Euro and other policies. The EU could continue to integrate whether we are members or not. Indeed, if we stayed in and created alliances with Poland, Italy etc we might have led an impressive counter federal block.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
How exactly is another vote anti-democratic?
Show your working...
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
So if Remain had won in June 2016 you and your fellow Leavers would have stopped campaigning to leave the EU, sine die?
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
You didn't answer my question.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
I would like to know how democratic it is to offer two specific proposed benefits in a referendum and then not deliver on them. To turn around your proposition on political engagement: People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
Do you think that is acceptable?
The level of net immigration has fallen since the Brexit vote took place, and by 2021 or thereabouts, expenditure on the NHS will be about £350 a week higher than in 2016.
Yes, but instead of European Immigration we will be the recipient of migrants from places outside Europe. Personally, No immigrant worries me but I think a lot of Leave supporters are going to wonder what on earth has happened as the tide of immigration propelled by the need to offset an ageing population continues. The £350 Million on NHS spending was additionally spending on top of planned increases. Spending on the NHS was going to increase anyway - I have not seen in a budget delivered by Hammond any Brexit related spending in the NHS: Have you?
Comments
So,all in all my assessment of Trump's mental health,means he should probably be closely monitored at all times by mental health specialists or else in a secure environment with his movements restricted.
Trump will last though.He knows how to play for time and has to actually do something with dire consequences before we can act which could be too late for us all.All one can do is support the resistance movement in the USA and hope,as an elderly lady said to me at the bus-stop "someone need to put a bullet in his brains".
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/alex-salmond/lord-kerr-predicts-second-eu-referendum-in-autumn/
Trump in the UK is political death for anyone associated with him.
We have had Thatcher morphing into Hague in the past in political advertising, fast forward to the future and Trump morphing into Farage is the obvious interpretation of any new political project involving Farage.
And the breakdown of democracy by 2019?
Putin cast as national saviour ahead of Russia election
Its core argument was that the state is the sacred centre of Russian life, the subject of periodic catastrophes throughout history, before each time being rescued and revived in new glory by divine intervention.
After the October Revolution destroyed the Russian Empire, the conduit for this miracle was Joseph Stalin, who created a new, glorious Red Empire, according to Prokhanov. That mythology glosses over Stalin's gross human rights abuses.
After the next perceived disaster - the collapse of the Soviet Union - the saviour was Vladimir Putin, Prokhanov argues, adding that the result is the latest Russian golden age - the "Fifth Empire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42707957
Doubt there's any liquidity though.
EDIT: Turns out there isn't even a market yet. Consider this my guess in advance then.
Because the only reason for having a second referendum is those in power will hope to have scared enough people over the line and scrape a win. Then, of course, never ask the question again.
So the millions who voted Leave will be disenfranchised, as their vote could never mean anything.
The Brexit decision has been made, so we should leave. If a future generation wants to take us back in, then that is up to them.
And earlier today we find that Labour are offering different ticket prices to black and white delegates (which is surely illegal)?
Do these people really not have any self-awareness?
"Publishers have been cowed into silence"
That's the real problem, right there. If you give in to the mob once, you will be forever at their mercy.
(PS glad to hear Mrs BJO is a bit better. Had been wondering.)
The 'mature reflection' at the moment is that the majority think the decision should be respected.
Reading lists without whites/men have been wibbled about on Twitter, and a week or two ago the BBC advertised a trainee position for non-whites.
It's poisonous, and it's only going to get worse. The Labour Party is one wellspring for this kinder, gentler politics, when they decided to follow a man who describes anti-Semites and homophobic murderers as 'friends'.
Cultural appropriation and micro-aggressions are just tools of control and censorship, little different to a 14th century nun following you around, ringing a bell and crying "Shame!".
We have witnessed the inability of Boris and his fellow ministers to deliver a "having our cake and eating it Brexit?".
A possibility does arrive that Boris may decide that after a period of negotiation the terms of Brexit are not as good as being a member of the EU and so the UK will remain.
You might not like it and don't vote in future elections if you feel that way but all politicians will always let you down in the end whether you are left, right or centre.
No fear. Just disgust at the anti-democratic attitude shown by some.
Anyway, I have to be off.
This wasn't just a regular election with politicians going back on the manifestos. This was a watershed moment in British politics that brought in huge numbers of people to vote that didn't bother normally. Politicians turning around saying: 'nah, doesn't seem possible after all' would have a huge negative impact, and would really rub people noses in it.
Do you want the rise of the hard-right as a real political force? That's one possibility.
£120 Billion pound to get to London 30 minutes earlier.
If you need to get to London 30 minutes earlier to getting up earlier.
They don't make new MPs like Dennis Skinner anymore.
Show your working...
Corbyn doesn't want one and has said we won't have one.
Unless Vince Cable becomes PM by the Autumn I really don't see how we will have one? Cos parliament has to agree it and the government has to propose it,
1. Keep asking people to vote until they 'get it right' is not democratic.
2. QED.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/21/ex-tory-cabinet-minister-report-channel-4-ofcom-tawdry-cash/
“”Peter Lilley, a Cabinet minister in John Major's government, said he will report Channel 4 to Ofcom over what he described as a "tawdry attempt at entrapment" and the programme's refusal to release a transcript to allow him answer its claims.”
Try again...
Not what I said. Read it again.
Ah, it's like the good old days when the Jacobites used to raise their glasses and toast the King referendum across the water.
Still, I suppose people want to cling to a glimmer of hope that Jeremy isn't really anti-EU and somehow the parliamentary arithmetic for another referendum can be made to work. Magical thinking in my view, but *shrug* let's see.
Top trolling as always though Scott.
You seem to be claiming that the referendum was not democratic. We voted on that before. Voting again to get "the right answer" doesn't meet your criteria for democracy.
Nope, you are wrong again.
MarkHopkins 6 PM:
But that would be Democracy - electing far right politicians (I would NOT welcome it). It is unlikely to happen anyway as first past the post tends to 'strangle at birth' new political movements. UKIP only prospered under PR.
Leave may have won the battle but I think they have lost the war. People voted for Leave for so many different reasons.
The people I encountered on the day did so for these reasons:
1. Stop Immigration.
2. £350 for the NHS per week.
3. Bring back Manufacturing.
Not one person I encountered mentioned parliamentary sovereignty, which is the only thing Brexit might bring back if they can even manage that. It was all a complete waste of time and caused by Cameron being too clever by half. You were sold a lie as a Leave supporter as I was as a Remain supporter. The cessation of mass immigration and the money for the NHS are the largest falsehoods I have witnessed in politics in my life time.
You talk about people walking away from democracy if Brexit is not implemented but what about those who voted to end Immigration and £350 Million for the NHS? You are only interested in democracy if the result you want is delivered. If another referendum is foisted on the UK (I hope it is not) and it reverses Brexit on a bigger turnout and larger number of votes. What do you have to say about that> It is undemocratic - I suppose?
OK, that's democratic, apparently...
Remain can continue to campaign to Rejoin, but should not use their positions of authority to frustrate the decision of the referendum.
The gap between EU referendums has been set now at 40 years - clear your diaries for 2056.
We can infer from your silence that you are a hypocrite.
Something for you to aspire to. But you have a long climb.
If a party or parties fight on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU, and they win a majority in The House of Commons they have a mandate.
Sovereign Parliament and all that jazz.
It was an indirect answer which I assumed you were smart enough to infer. Oh well.
Yes Leave could have continued to campaign, just like Remain can today. That's completely different to finding excuses to re-run a vote before it's even enacted, just because you didn't like the result.
To turn around your proposition on political engagement:
People might STOP voting because Immigration is going to continue and the NHS does not get £350 Million a year.
Do you think that is acceptable?
And parties that were committed to Remain fared poorly.
https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/865855578454806529?lang=en
It’s fine for a Remainer to campaign to Rejoin, but not to set aside the result of the referendum
Anti-democratically.