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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sunday Morning Polling Round Up

SystemSystem Posts: 12,360
edited September 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sunday Morning Polling Round Up

There were three polls released overnight, The YouGov for the Sunday Times, an Opinium poll for the Observer, and a Wisdom Index Poll for the Sunday Telegraph (which asks what voters think each party will get at the next General Election)

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Time to note :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister
  • How do you see it playing out Jack?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Comes to something when it takes an old-un to kick off proceedings first thing on a Sunday morning.

    Wakey, wakey PB youngsters .... we've got an "Ed is Crap" thread to muster !!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JackW said:

    Time to note :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister

    Has he announced the date for his post Syria, post Union climb down, relaunch yet?

    It's been a couple of weeks since the last one...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2013

    How do you see it playing out Jack?

    My dear PfP are you trying to induce me to leak the contents of my ARSE before the Tuesday morning deadline ??

    However glancing into my Sunday morning tealeaves indicates a slow decline for Ed slipping to the low thirties before he gets the full on campaign treatment and contends with Gordon for another spectacularly awful election night.

    The more enticing question will be, might Cameron eek out a small majority or retain his present comfortable Coalition position ??

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    JackW said:


    The more enticing question will be, might Cameron eek out a small majority or retain his present comfortable Coalition position ??

    Let's see

    No boundary changes
    Falling living standards
    Useless fops/chumocracy
    Toxic brand
    Strong, decisive LotO

    Tory majority nailed on!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2013
    JackW said:

    Time to note :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister

    Are you saying that our future Prime Minister will never be Prime Minister ? Doesn't make sense, does it ?
  • firstlight40firstlight40 Posts: 69
    edited September 2013
    The unite climb down will haunt Ed; If I were a journalist the question "How were the original witnesses persuaded to change their testimony?" is the one I'd want to answer leading to either:
    a) They should be ejected for providing false witness and bringing the party into disrepute, with an investigation into who (if anyone) was behind them
    b) Were they offered anything to retract their testimony, my guess is an autographed picture of Ed would not have been enough ?
    or
    c) were the witnesses threatened or intimidated in any way?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BTW .... did PBers spot Peter Bone playing the clarinet at the Proms last night ??

    Quite a fellow - Former England football manager one day, Conservative fruit loop another, husband to the inestimable Mrs Bone every day and now first rate wind blower last night !!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    @JackW

    You'll be trying to expunge the prediction of 5 UKIP MP's from the memory banks as well.

    I expunge nothing you hugely "moderated" spamalot nincompoop.

    The last three UKIP projections were 3,2,2.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    surbiton said:

    JackW said:

    Time to note :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister

    Are you saying that our future Prime Minister will never be Prime Minister ? Doesn't make sense, does it ?
    Since when did sense and Ed make happy Prime Ministerial bedfellows ??

  • It seems like the linkers have forgotten to put us in touch with one of their favourite Ed haters today:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ditching-union-funds-is-ed-milibands-sound-investment-8803354.html

    Looks like John Rentoul gets it.
  • The unite climb down will haunt Ed; If I were a journalist the question "How were the original witnesses persuaded to change their testimony?" is the one I'd want to answer leading to either:
    a) They should be ejected for providing false witness and bringing the party into disrepute, with an investigation into who (if anyone) was behind them
    b) Were they offered anything to retract their testimony, my guess is an autographed picture of Ed would not have been enough ?
    or
    c) were the witnesses threatened or intimidated in any way?

    Indeed. c) is the most worrying option, and one I find hard to discount.

    Still, it's a good thing Ed's shining the light of openness onto the whole affair, isn't it?
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    tim said:

    The reality meets Camerons dribblings about how personal his priorities are

    http://www.standard.co.uk/panewsfeeds/ae-at-breaking-point-nhs-chiefs-8803581.html

    Evening Standard ‏@standardnews
    A&E at breaking point: NHS chiefs http://bit.ly/16ao4nn


    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 3h
    90% Of Nurses Say A&E Patients Put In Danger http://news.sky.com/story/1138708/90-percent-of-nurses-say-a-and-e-patients-put-in-danger


    A million more A&E visits than three years ago strangely coinciding with cuts to council services and the chaotic 111 roll out.

    Lol - service providers in 'we want more money shocker!.'
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    felix said:

    tim said:

    The reality meets Camerons dribblings about how personal his priorities are

    http://www.standard.co.uk/panewsfeeds/ae-at-breaking-point-nhs-chiefs-8803581.html

    Evening Standard ‏@standardnews
    A&E at breaking point: NHS chiefs http://bit.ly/16ao4nn


    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 3h
    90% Of Nurses Say A&E Patients Put In Danger http://news.sky.com/story/1138708/90-percent-of-nurses-say-a-and-e-patients-put-in-danger


    A million more A&E visits than three years ago strangely coinciding with cuts to council services and the chaotic 111 roll out.

    Lol - service providers in 'we want more money shocker!.'
    Patients in `We are ill.We don`t want to wait more than 4 hours to be treated` shocker!

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    I don't know where the "housing bubble" is happening (other than some posh parts of London). In my experience, prices have been static for ages.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,375

    I am really beginning to feel sorry for Ed now. It's not his fault that he's a square peg in a round hole. We expect PMs to be leaders, and even when they're wrong, they gain something for decisiveness.

    Churchill and Kennedy had loads of faults but they knew their own mind. Ed may well be cerebral, and happy to discuss the competing factors before making a decision. He may even be decisive in his own household. "No, Justine, I'll definitely have my eggs fried today." He may even get most of the calls correct (eventually). But none of that matters enough.

    "It's not fair"?

    But life isn't always fair.
  • Sean_F said:

    I don't know where the "housing bubble" is happening (other than some posh parts of London). In my experience, prices have been static for ages.

    They are certainly on the up in our part of the world. We keep getting estate agent letters through the door telling us about growing demand and asking us whether we want to sell. Six months ago these were unknown.

  • tim said:

    It seems like the linkers have forgotten to put us in touch with one of their favourite Ed haters today:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ditching-union-funds-is-ed-milibands-sound-investment-8803354.html

    Looks like John Rentoul gets it.


    "This week, Miliband will go to the Trades Union Congress in Bournemouth to restate his case in front of the very officials whose power is threatened by his reform. He will face down the ugly threat to cut off Labour funding made last week by Paul Kenny, general secretary of the GMB. I don't know if Kenny was doing it on purpose, as part of a morality play designed to make Miliband's case, but his performance as a mafioso could not have done so more effectively."

    Can't be true, did you not follow the PB Tory tweet-spam-spasm yesterday?

    But they so want it to be true, bless them. At some stage soon we'll get the BBC attacks. Just you wait.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Paul kenny sticking the boot in to Ed on BBC.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    Soaraway Labour ...up up and away into the political stratosphere ..do they have enough fuel on board?
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
  • Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    They may win it in September 2014.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    But my dear old fruit the election is not today and if a few point lead mid-term with some pollsters gives you comfort then you need some psephological psychiatric help .... and soon !!

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JPonpolitics: Pienaar's Politics is back today at our new time of 10am, coming live from the TUC Congress in Bournemouth. My main guest is Len McCluskey
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    edited September 2013

    Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    He was quite clear in the interview, ( summarising ) he accused party grandees and office based advisors who have no idea about real life and representing ordinary people. He seemed quite passionate about it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    tim said:
    A fair summary of the position. In particular I'm sceptical of historical comparisons as the sample is so small - comparing 2015 with year XXXX is like predicting the Scottish results based on a poll subsample, with all kinds of diofferent factors in play. I do think this year's conferences are going to be important, though.

  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705

    Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    Because people don't join parties en masse any more?
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    edited September 2013
    philiph said:

    Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    Because people don't join parties en masse any more?
    Kenny was laughing. he pointed out (rightly) that the GMB has more members than Lab\Con\LD put together but he now has political advisors trying to tell him how to run an organisation with mass membership.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,105
    The battle lines are being drawn. The Tories think they can dent Labours built in lead by destroying the credibility of Ed personally. Labour will continue to attack the Tories as the party for the rich.

    They've both had reasonable success and both have a lot of mileage left in them. The Tories should worry that their dislike factor is 55 against Labour's 44 and Labour should worry that improving Ed's image will cost money. Something they're going to be short of after their spat with the unions.

    The good news is that it shouldn't be too difficult. Think 'Not Flash Just Gordon. He's still an open book and relatively unknown.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    tim said:

    fpt

    The next time fitalass plays the victim,someone repost this brilliant example of troubled passive aggressive hypocrisy.

    Addressed to My Burning Ears.

    "fitalass said:
    Well I don't regard you as a honorary gentleman on PB, and certainly not a particularly clever PB honorary right wing troller. So as a result, I simple skim over your posts as I regard them and your opinion a parody of the current position that Ed Miliband finds himself in. But I await your latest cowardly attempt at ungraciously extricating yourself from any praise from another poster here, but whereby you manage to really insult the person who was being trolled as a result. "

    Magnificent.

    fitalass was having a grouchy evening, both with this remarkable assault on the cerebral centre-right MBE and an odd pot-shot at EiT.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Of course I do which is why telling me you're at 44 seats looks plain silly. I also realise that today's poll is also part of polling trend which has seen the gap narrow. And as has been pointed out 2 years from an election a poll is meaningless it's the trend that counts. We're still heading for a Hung Parlt. imo.
  • woger.. very funny..can you come back and tell us aother one later.
    Start with "Eds credibilty"
  • tim said:

    It seems like the linkers have forgotten to put us in touch with one of their favourite Ed haters today:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ditching-union-funds-is-ed-milibands-sound-investment-8803354.html

    Looks like John Rentoul gets it.


    "This week, Miliband will go to the Trades Union Congress in Bournemouth to restate his case in front of the very officials whose power is threatened by his reform. He will face down the ugly threat to cut off Labour funding made last week by Paul Kenny, general secretary of the GMB. I don't know if Kenny was doing it on purpose, as part of a morality play designed to make Miliband's case, but his performance as a mafioso could not have done so more effectively."

    Can't be true, did you not follow the PB Tory tweet-spam-spasm yesterday?

    But they so want it to be true, bless them. At some stage soon we'll get the BBC attacks. Just you wait.

    Why is the decision the GMB made to give Labour less funding an 'ugly threat'?

    Labour have no automatic rights to funding - after all, many unions are not affiliated with the party. If Labour has chosen to bring in rules which the GMB dislikes, then the GMB is perfectly free to take its ball home.

    As for the TUC speech: Miliband flip-flopped on Syria. He flip-flopped on Falkirk. Will the TUC make it three out of three in a fortnight?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Nope.

    Presently Labour are on track for a range of 28% - 32%.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Roger said:

    The battle lines are being drawn. The Tories think they can dent Labours built in lead by destroying the credibility of Ed personally. Labour will continue to attack the Tories as the party for the rich.

    They've both had reasonable success and both have a lot of mileage left in them. The Tories should worry that their dislike factor is 55 against Labour's 44 and Labour should worry that improving Ed's image will cost money. Something they're going to be short of after their spat with the unions.

    The good news is that it shouldn't be too difficult. Think 'Not Flash Just Gordon. He's still an open book and relatively unknown.

    3 years in situ mean he's not an open book Roger, his lack of policies and positioning mean the vacuum he created has been filled for him he's Dwayne Dibbley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6vU_Urxgbg
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    A gentle rise in house prices is not a bubble.Shrp rises have been an inner London phenomenon. The rise in bond yields is a positive sign of normality returning to interest rates, 3% being low by historical standards.

    The rise in Bond yields has the effect of greatly reducing the deficit of defined benefit pensions schemes, and also should increase annuity rates for those on defined contribution schemes. It is good news for pensioners and savers.

    It also shows that there are other sources competing for spare capital, such as companies bidding for investment.

    The consequent rise in interest rates will help savers and prevent the rise in house prices getting out of control.

    The organisation that will suffer the most is the exchequer, which will find itself paying more to borrow. This means that there can be no relaxation of austerity over the next parliament, and certainly not a Balls spending spree.

    It is good news.



    l
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.


  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Alas, if I wanted to comment on various aspects of Cameron's judgement, I would have to do it on a site that is not hosted in the UK.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Nope.

    Presently Labour are on track for a range of 28% - 32%.

    So Given, even by your own reckoning, Labour are on track to do better than 2010, where is that Tory majority going too come from? Eastleigh?
  • Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    He was quite clear in the interview, ( summarising ) he accused party grandees and office based advisors who have no idea about real life and representing ordinary people. He seemed quite passionate about it.

    I bet he is. His hotline into the Labour leadership is going to go, as is his ability to apportion votes on behalf of his members.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Alas, if I wanted to comment on various aspects of Cameron's judgement, I would have to do it on a site that is not hosted in the UK.

    Oh go on, be a devil.

    Just trim a tad. You'll feel much better for it !!

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Bekka not!
    JackW said:

    Alas, if I wanted to comment on various aspects of Cameron's judgement, I would have to do it on a site that is not hosted in the UK.

    Oh go on, be a devil.

    Just trim a tad. You'll feel much better for it !!

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,375
    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jonathan said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.

    Indeed it's all going so swimmingly well for Ed :

    1. Economy improving steadily.
    2. Poll lead falling steadily
    3. Funding falling steadily
    4. Personal ratings falling steadily

    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you go !!

    1.Housing bubble getting bigger.
    2.Gilt rates going up steadily at high of 3%
    3.A&E crisis looming.
    4.Senior Lib Dem to quit because of Clegg`s policies.

    We can all pick and choose.
    Hhhhmmm

    I'd rather pick and choose mine than yours and any serious pundit would !!

    Today`s Youguv results translate into a Labour majority of 44.
    If position is reversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Nope.

    Presently Labour are on track for a range of 28% - 32%.

    So Given, even by your own reckoning, Labour are on track to do better than 2010, where is that Tory majority going too come from? Eastleigh?
    28% is worse than 2010.

    Personally I think a small Conservative majority is much less likely than another Conservative led Coalition. I also believe differential turnout will adversely effect Labour in the marginals.

    Eastleigh will be a LibDem hold.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756

    Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    He was quite clear in the interview, ( summarising ) he accused party grandees and office based advisors who have no idea about real life and representing ordinary people. He seemed quite passionate about it.

    I bet he is. His hotline into the Labour leadership is going to go, as is his ability to apportion votes on behalf of his members.

    looking at the balance of power I'd rather suspect it's the other way around. On the non-political level I hope the split goes ahead since I think TUs should be there to represent their members rather than dabble in politics, they'll do a better job if they're not politically affiliated.
  • Paul kenny : "This idea has been dusted down from the drawer of a schoolboy project"

    "Nobody's rushing to join the Labour Party".

    Maybe Paul should ask himself why!

    He was quite clear in the interview, ( summarising ) he accused party grandees and office based advisors who have no idea about real life and representing ordinary people. He seemed quite passionate about it.

    I bet he is. His hotline into the Labour leadership is going to go, as is his ability to apportion votes on behalf of his members.

    looking at the balance of power I'd rather suspect it's the other way around. On the non-political level I hope the split goes ahead since I think TUs should be there to represent their members rather than dabble in politics, they'll do a better job if they're not politically affiliated.

    It'll be better for Labour and the unions.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    1) So now its only the potential of a bubble?
    2) Gilt rates are predicted to rise by the OBR, and are factored in to the forecasts that they make. Rising rates won't come as a surprise -- falling or static ones will. See here for instance (p 93):

    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/December-2012-Economic-and-fiscal-outlook23423423.pdf
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Why don`t you read foxinsox`s post first?

  • CD13 said:

    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.

    If Ed backs down he is irrevocably f***ed. There is no other possibility. And if Labour does not back him the party is f***ed. The stakes are that big.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,105
    @Alanbrooke

    "3 years in situ mean he's not an open book Roger, his lack of policies and positioning mean the vacuum he created has been filled for him he's Dwayne Dibbley"

    Cast your mind back to the early days of Godon PM. Everyone thought they knew him after ten years as chancellor then some very smart marketing coincided with a couple of confected crises and suddenly a bumbling buffoon became 'Chance' the gardiner. Ed could yet become popular in a way Hague IDS Kinnock and Howard never could

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    1) So now its only the potential of a bubble?
    2) Gilt rates are predicted to rise by the OBR, and are factored in to the forecasts that they make. Rising rates won't come as a surprise -- falling or static ones will. See here for instance (p 93):

    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/December-2012-Economic-and-fiscal-outlook23423423.pdf
    PB poster engages in hyperbole.Shock!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,756
    Roger said:

    @Alanbrooke

    "3 years in situ mean he's not an open book Roger, his lack of policies and positioning mean the vacuum he created has been filled for him he's Dwayne Dibbley"

    Cast your mind back to the early days of Godon PM. Everyone thought they knew him after ten years as chancellor then some very smart marketing coincided with a couple of confected crises and suddenly a bumbling buffoon became 'Chance' the gardiner. Ed could yet become popular in a way Hague IDS Kinnock and Howard never could

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/

    Roger as an ad man I'm surprised at you. The first of rule of marketing is advertising can't make up for a useless product. If Ed had just hit the streets the advertising and image could help for a period of time until the truth caught up. But he's been around for three years and mostly with bad press, he's the political equivalent of Ratners. All you can do is let things run their course and start afresh with someone new.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    Interest rates certainly should head back to normal levels, given fairly strong economic growth.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Labour should hide Ed Miliband - for about 20 months.

    He's Steve McLaren in the umbrella phase.
  • JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

  • OFFS! Do people come here because they have reading-difficulties? Are their few remaining brain-cells so frazzled that they don't comprehend what is posted?

    MBE is right-wing: GFY! I'm "right-wing" but hold one of the most liberal (Millsian) positions on here. MBE should be bookmarked as another instance of Yellow Submarine; a thoughtful centrist who is self-derprecating. The fact that Sven does not undertand this shows the lack of quality that our "senior" politicains possess....
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    Roger said:

    @Alanbrooke

    "3 years in situ mean he's not an open book Roger, his lack of policies and positioning mean the vacuum he created has been filled for him he's Dwayne Dibbley"

    Cast your mind back to the early days of Godon PM. Everyone thought they knew him after ten years as chancellor then some very smart marketing coincided with a couple of confected crises and suddenly a bumbling buffoon became 'Chance' the gardiner. Ed could yet become popular in a way Hague IDS Kinnock and Howard never could

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/

    All very well, but Gordon had gravitas upon which to build. Ed has????
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Why don`t you read foxinsox`s post first?

    I did, however there's the difference between informed comment and fact.

    Fact - Interest rates have not increased and accorded to the BoE will not do so for some time yet !!

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that you are not properly allowing for the incumbency factor, which favoured Labour in 2010, but will favour Tory in 2015. Raw national percentages matter, but are not the whole story. Motivation to vote for Labour may fall very much further if there is nothing worth voting for, as seems to be the case at present. NPXMP should be worried.

    Labour conference is going to be interesting. If there is to be a putsch it has to be very soon, or there has to be a bite on the bullet and acceptance of Ed Milibands policies (and some attempt to put these into comprehensible form)

    The LDs should not cosy too much up to Labour. Drowning people clutching each other is not a good idea. There should be discussion in the LDs about how they would work a coalition again if Tories are largest party in 2015, which certainly looks possible.
    Jonathan said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.


    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you
    If position is oreversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Nope.

    Presently Labour are on track for a range of 28% - 32%.

    So Given, even by your own reckoning, Labour are on track to do better than 2010, where is that Tory majority going too come from? Eastleigh?
  • Roger said:

    @Alanbrooke

    "3 years in situ mean he's not an open book Roger, his lack of policies and positioning mean the vacuum he created has been filled for him he's Dwayne Dibbley"

    Cast your mind back to the early days of Godon PM. Everyone thought they knew him after ten years as chancellor then some very smart marketing coincided with a couple of confected crises and suddenly a bumbling buffoon became 'Chance' the gardiner. Ed could yet become popular in a way Hague IDS Kinnock and Howard never could

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/

    It is much easier to lose a reputation than to gain it. Brown had a reputation as a cast-iron chancellor; his bumbling of the election-that-never-was, the party's infighting, and the economic crash destroyed that.

    Ed Miliband does not even have a positive reputation to begin with. How does he rebuilt it now? What possible mechanism can he use to recover?
  • CD13 said:

    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.

    If Ed backs down he is irrevocably f***ed. There is no other possibility. And if Labour does not back him the party is f***ed. The stakes are that big.

    The other thing about this is that if the unions tried to engineer a replacement for Ed who didn't do this stuff, the replacement would be irrevocably f**cked. Likewise a leadership challenge that wasn't really driven by the unions but made it look like that was what was happening. So pretty much all the alternatives the unions have to giving Ed what he wants make things worse for them.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Hoping Monza's an exciting and profitable race.

    Mr. Jessop, you're wrong about E. Miliband. He does have a reputation. Admtitedly, it's for being a two-faced backstabber, and agreeing with French presidents and Russian foreign policy, but it's there.
  • I think that you are not properly allowing for the incumbency factor, which favoured Labour in 2010, but will favour Tory in 2015. Raw national percentages matter, but are not the whole story. Motivation to vote for Labour may fall very much further if there is nothing worth voting for, as seems to be the case at present. NPXMP should be worried.

    Labour conference is going to be interesting. If there is to be a putsch it has to be very soon, or there has to be a bite on the bullet and acceptance of Ed Milibands policies (and some attempt to put these into comprehensible form)

    The LDs should not cosy too much up to Labour. Drowning people clutching each other is not a good idea. There should be discussion in the LDs about how they would work a coalition again if Tories are largest party in 2015, which certainly looks possible.


    Jonathan said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    While there is a lot of noise about Ed and the unions,Labour hast just made the first gain of 2015.Another 67 to go.


    Steady as you go Ed, steady as you
    If position is oreversed(C-38,L-34),then Con short by 13.(Source:Graphic Swingometer,UKPR)

    Tories have a mountain to climb and they lost the next election in January 2013.

    The mountain has got smaller. Six months ago you were telling us Ed had a majority between 80 and 100.
    You do realise that Today`s Youguv was particularly favourable to the Conservatives

    Tories couldn`t get a majority with Labour on 29% and they`ll certainly be higher than that next time.I think we can all agree on that.
    Nope.

    Presently Labour are on track for a range of 28% - 32%.

    So Given, even by your own reckoning, Labour are on track to do better than 2010, where is that Tory majority going too come from? Eastleigh?
    As discussed yesterday, in moving rightwards to lure back UKIPers the Tories may well be providing the left of centre demographic with all the motivation necessary to go to the polls.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,281
    Looks like there is still one Cameroon in Oceania
    He has also vowed to reduce the foreign aid budget by A$4.5bn ($4bn; £2.6bn).

    But New Zealand Prime Minister John Key warned the cuts would strain small Pacific island nations, a major beneficiary of Australian aid.

    "These are countries that need a lot of support and help, so if there is less money coming their way, they'll obviously feel that over time," he said.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24005687
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    edited September 2013

    A gentle rise in house prices is not a bubble.Shrp rises have been an inner London phenomenon. The rise in bond yields is a positive sign of normality returning to interest rates, 3% being low by historical standards.

    The rise in Bond yields has the effect of greatly reducing the deficit of defined benefit pensions schemes, and also should increase annuity rates for those on defined contribution schemes. It is good news for pensioners and savers.

    It also shows that there are other sources competing for spare capital, such as companies bidding for investment.

    The consequent rise in interest rates will help savers and prevent the rise in house prices getting out of control.

    The organisation that will suffer the most is the exchequer, which will find itself paying more to borrow. This means that there can be no relaxation of austerity over the next parliament, and certainly not a Balls spending spree.

    It is good news.





    Mr Sox, I think that is an excellent summary of the situation.

    Gilt rates are also being pushed higher by developing countries withdrawing capital to protect their currencies. As this will reduce the proportion of our gilts held abroad this is also ulitmately good news.

    The idea that it is ok for governments to borrow at rates of about 1% when inflation is nearer 3% is truly nuts and dangerous. What sort of politician could resist? Even someone with the vision of George might be tempted to slow down the cut in borrowing and increase infrastructure spending. And he has.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    edited September 2013
    Wildly O/T: I have a new Blackberry and uncharacteristically rerad the package leaflet. It instructs me to carry it in a holster (provided) at all times in order to prevent harmful emissions with unspecified serious consequences. Normally I just carry it in my jacket or shirt pocket.

    This sounds tiresome - I can imagine grappling to get the thing out of its holster whenever someone rings. Is there some serious science behind this, or are they just covering themselves?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hoping Monza's an exciting and profitable race.

    Mr. Jessop, you're wrong about E. Miliband. He does have a reputation. Admtitedly, it's for being a two-faced backstabber, and agreeing with French presidents and Russian foreign policy, but it's there.

    Did you have a nibble at Nadal ??

  • CD13 said:

    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.

    If Ed backs down he is irrevocably f***ed. There is no other possibility. And if Labour does not back him the party is f***ed. The stakes are that big.

    The other thing about this is that if the unions tried to engineer a replacement for Ed who didn't do this stuff, the replacement would be irrevocably f**cked. Likewise a leadership challenge that wasn't really driven by the unions but made it look like that was what was happening. So pretty much all the alternatives the unions have to giving Ed what he wants make things worse for them.

    That just about sums it up. No wonder union leaders are furious. They lose whichever way you look at it. So once Labour reforms and the big union donations go, where will that leave the Tories and their reliance on big donations from a few folk in the City? There is a reason why despite the rhetoric about Labour being in the pay of the unions the Tories have done nothing about it for the last three years: it obscures their own dependencies.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I do not see signs of another propery bubble (apart perhaps from some parts of inner London such as Primrose Hill) I see a future of sta le house prices, being deflated by Inflation back to historic norms.

    Interest rates are currently disconnected from gilt yields, but are also disconnected from BoE rates at the retail level.

    These coming back to alignment are further signs of normalisation and recovery of the economy.

    I am not expecting short term rises in interest rates, but shortly after 2015, and planning my own finances on that basis.
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    1) So now its only the potential of a bubble?
    2) Gilt rates are predicted to rise by the OBR, and are factored in to the forecasts that they make. Rising rates won't come as a surprise -- falling or static ones will. See here for instance (p 93):

    http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/December-2012-Economic-and-fiscal-outlook23423423.pdf
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Wildly O/T: I have a new Blackberry and uncharacteristically rerad the package leaflet. It instructs me to carry it in a holster (provided) at all times in order to prevent harmful emissions with unspecified serious consequences. Normally I just carry it in my jacket or shirt pocket.

    This sounds tiresome - I can imagine grappling to get the thing out of its holster whenever someone rings. Is there some serious science behind this, or are they just covering themselves?

    You mean you don't carry your phone in your man-bag ?!?

  • Mr. W, I decided against it. I hope it comes off, of course, but I very rarely bet on anything beyond individual matches in tennis.
  • Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.

    If it's permanent we're all buggered. Relentlessly stagnating or falling standards of living will eventually lead to significant unrest, especially when the wealth of the minority at the top has never been more visible and, in many cases, more ostentatiously displayed. It's something that none of our political parties have begun to think about yet. But they need to.

  • Wildly O/T: I have a new Blackberry and uncharacteristically rerad the package leaflet. It instructs me to carry it in a holster (provided) at all times in order to prevent harmful emissions with unspecified serious consequences. Normally I just carry it in my jacket or shirt pocket.

    This sounds tiresome - I can imagine grappling to get the thing out of its holster whenever someone rings. Is there some serious science behind this, or are they just covering themselves?

    The latter, ignore. Just make sure you don't get it wet or feed it after midnight.
  • O/T ..Pleased about Japan and 2020 ..as predicted..
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, I decided against it. I hope it comes off, of course, but I very rarely bet on anything beyond individual matches in tennis.

    Tennis reflects my biggest sporting gambles by some margin.

    No messy draws, excellent coverage on the box and the depth of the mens game ensures some varied opportunities.

    I've gone heavy with Nadal from early in the American hard court season. His form has been fantastic and his US Open run has been no less impressive.

  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    CD13 said:

    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.

    If Ed backs down he is irrevocably f***ed. There is no other possibility. And if Labour does not back him the party is f***ed. The stakes are that big.

    The other thing about this is that if the unions tried to engineer a replacement for Ed who didn't do this stuff, the replacement would be irrevocably f**cked. Likewise a leadership challenge that wasn't really driven by the unions but made it look like that was what was happening. So pretty much all the alternatives the unions have to giving Ed what he wants make things worse for them.

    That just about sums it up. No wonder union leaders are furious. They lose whichever way you look at it. So once Labour reforms and the big union donations go, where will that leave the Tories and their reliance on big donations from a few folk in the City? There is a reason why despite the rhetoric about Labour being in the pay of the unions the Tories have done nothing about it for the last three years: it obscures their own dependencies.

    GoodOh. Also, there's the possibility as well that Ed may actually think it's the right thing to do, although I know that's maybe unexpected for a politician?
  • tim said:
    A fair summary of the position. In particular I'm sceptical of historical comparisons as the sample is so small - comparing 2015 with year XXXX is like predicting the Scottish results based on a poll subsample, with all kinds of diofferent factors in play. I do think this year's conferences are going to be important, though.

    I agree to a point.

    The compilers of that blog are just as guilty of projecting their own wishes when reading the chicken entrails. The compilers of that blog largely dismiss a 1% reduction in the gap between Labour and the Conservatives in a month. This followed a 0.5% reduction in the gap the previous month which they also dismissed. One wonders when they might start regarding the reduction as potentially significant.
  • Wildly O/T: I have a new Blackberry and uncharacteristically rerad the package leaflet. It instructs me to carry it in a holster (provided) at all times in order to prevent harmful emissions with unspecified serious consequences. Normally I just carry it in my jacket or shirt pocket.

    This sounds tiresome - I can imagine grappling to get the thing out of its holster whenever someone rings. Is there some serious science behind this, or are they just covering themselves?

    Sounds like CYA smallprint. There are various bands that it will emit on; 3G and/or 4G; Bluetooth, WiFi etc. None of these are currently known to have problems at the powers used on a mobile phone. However research is continuing, and this conclusion may change.

    The biggest certain effect is thermal heating of human tissue, although the powers used do not give much of an effect. Then there is the heat given off by the device itself; some mobiles do get somewhat warm with everything turned on.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health

    I'm guessing they've included the text to help negate any future potential claims; e.g. 'Well, we did say to use it in its holster'.

    Or there might be a technical reason why it's advised - RF is a weird little beastie at the best of times. Think of the iPhone 4's Grip of Death.

    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/iphone-4-death-grip
  • Mr. W, I pay it much less attention than F1 (and often forgot about it for weeks or months at a time!), but am doing slightly better than with F1. Bit odd, really.

    From what I've gathered Nadal is having a rather good comeback. Shame Federer appears on an increasingly steep decline, however.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2013
    I understand that USA median income has been static since the early seventies, despite incresing economic size. It is quite possible that ours will follow suit.

    In many ways this is the effect of globalisation, so while East Europe and Asia looks more like us economically we are trending the other way. The welfare state needs to adapt or die.

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.

    If it's permanent we're all buggered. Relentlessly stagnating or falling standards of living will eventually lead to significant unrest, especially when the wealth of the minority at the top has never been more visible and, in many cases, more ostentatiously displayed. It's something that none of our political parties have begun to think about yet. But they need to.

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,859

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.

    If it's permanent we're all buggered. Relentlessly stagnating or falling standards of living will eventually lead to significant unrest, especially when the wealth of the minority at the top has never been more visible and, in many cases, more ostentatiously displayed. It's something that none of our political parties have begun to think about yet. But they need to.

    Absolutely agree. The increasing poverty of much of the population has been papered over by cheap credit, including latterly the disgrace of interest base rates that are totally detached from the real value of money. But these balls can only stay in the air for so long. Inequality of wealth is a huge threat to the stability of this country.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all. It seems the polls can be summed up by the Bland is Rubbish mantra. Really sad that technology got in the way of Andrew Marr interviewing Len McClusky. It was probably the only interview of any great importance this morning.

    Perchance the ICM Wisdom poll immediately post Tory conference will have a Tory lead.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.

    If it's permanent we're all buggered. Relentlessly stagnating or falling standards of living will eventually lead to significant unrest, especially when the wealth of the minority at the top has never been more visible and, in many cases, more ostentatiously displayed. It's something that none of our political parties have begun to think about yet. But they need to.

    That ties in with discussions about the next election. We could easily see GDP rise by 6% between Q3 2013, and Q2 2015, which would be well ahead of population growth over that period. But, will it result in wage rises for the average voter?

  • The latter, ignore. Just make sure you don't get it wet or feed it after midnight.

    :excellent....:
  • Perchance the ICM Wisdom poll immediately post Tory conference will have a Tory lead.

    Never underestimate the capacity of the Tories to snatch defeat from the jaw's of victory!

  • Toms said:

    CD13 said:

    A big decision coming up for Ed.

    He either ploughs on and tells the union leaders where to go, or he backs down.

    The first will produce short-term pain but long term gain. The second? Unthinkable, even Ed has to nail his colours to the mast now.

    If Ed backs down he is irrevocably f***ed. There is no other possibility. And if Labour does not back him the party is f***ed. The stakes are that big.

    The other thing about this is that if the unions tried to engineer a replacement for Ed who didn't do this stuff, the replacement would be irrevocably f**cked. Likewise a leadership challenge that wasn't really driven by the unions but made it look like that was what was happening. So pretty much all the alternatives the unions have to giving Ed what he wants make things worse for them.

    That just about sums it up. No wonder union leaders are furious. They lose whichever way you look at it. So once Labour reforms and the big union donations go, where will that leave the Tories and their reliance on big donations from a few folk in the City? There is a reason why despite the rhetoric about Labour being in the pay of the unions the Tories have done nothing about it for the last three years: it obscures their own dependencies.

    GoodOh. Also, there's the possibility as well that Ed may actually think it's the right thing to do, although I know that's maybe unexpected for a politician?

    I subscribe to the cock-up theory. Ed was bounced into it by the Tories, who may end up wishing they had kept quiet and left Falkirk to do whatever damage it was going to do. I have no doubt, though, that Ed now thinks it's the right thing to do. The simple fact is that it is.

  • Ed Miliband has to press on with his reforms. He has the rather difficult presentational problem now, however, that his pretext for introducing them has vanished.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I have no doubt, though, that Ed now thinks it's the right thing to do. The simple fact is that it is.

    If Labour ditches the union link, what will be the difference between them and the lib dems? Not that much, it seems to me.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    SMukesh said:

    @foxinsox

    `It is good news.`

    1)House prices are going up with only a mild increase in supply,so there`s the potential of a bubble.Rising interest rates could result in some mortgage-payers being unable to afford it raising worries that it will be a repeat of 2008.

    2)Rising gilts are a blow to the government`s deficit reduction policy.Their initial stated principle was to cull the deficit within this Parliament and they may not even achieve half of that.So it`s politically important.

    I must have missed the increase in interest rates.

    It's funny what you passes you by waiting for a policy from the Labour party !!

    Mortgages are generally paid over a 20 to 25 year period. If house prices are rising as average earnings are stagnating or falling it does not take a genius to work out what even a slight rise in interest rates could do. If they return to historical norms it could get very nasty indeed.

    IMO, the biggest long-term economic problem has been the fact that growth in output hasn't fed through into growth in median incomes since about 2000. I don't know if that's permanent, or just a blip.

    If it's permanent we're all buggered. Relentlessly stagnating or falling standards of living will eventually lead to significant unrest, especially when the wealth of the minority at the top has never been more visible and, in many cases, more ostentatiously displayed. It's something that none of our political parties have begun to think about yet. But they need to.

    That ties in with discussions about the next election. We could easily see GDP rise by 6% between Q3 2013, and Q2 2015, which would be well ahead of population growth over that period. But, will it result in wage rises for the average voter?

    Absolutely. Focusing on abstract numbers and proclaiming their upwards or downwards movement politically significant is a bit silly. What matters is voters' own experiences, perceptions and expectations. GDP rises or falls are neither here nor there: having more or less money in your pocket after bills have been paid is what counts.

This discussion has been closed.