It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.
We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.
I've often wondered if Lammy didn't do that on purpose. I can't think what he might have been trying to achieve but surely nobody could be that thick in real life?
In fairness, I can well imagine even an experienced politician having something of a brain freeze with the music and the black chair. Good on him for having a go.
Oh dear. Harris showing his ignorance. The Abwehr under Canaris spent almost the whole war undermining Hitler, helping Jews escape to neutral countries (Canaris appointed dozens of known Jewish officers and diplomats as spies to neutral countries where they promptly disappeared) and doing everything it could to make sure the Nazis lost. So much so that many of their members were eventually arrested and executed.
They also dropped a series of ill-equipped spies into England with dodgy accents and even dodgier tweeds, which is I think is the not too obscure point.
Apparently there is a pause due to a reception at no 10
which shows a government fit for the future, doesn't it, Big G?
Lot fitter than Corbyn's labour
Weak, weak, weak. Your argument essentially boils down to "we are shit, but not as shit as the other lot hypothetically would be, were they in government, which they are not."
Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?
A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
True, of course, and the trains from Cardiff arn not as good as they could be.
Cardiff is impossible to reach from North Wales and is in many was detached from us. We can get to London quicker and have much more in common with Liverpool and Manchester
The most penetrating analysis to date on the BBC website on the reshuffle is currently from Larry the cat. He's gone inside, apparently. This might be it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-42602570
It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.
We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.
Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
If we ever get a normal person as a politician we will no doubt find out.
Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?
A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.
We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.
Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
No idea. It sounds like the worst life in the world to me.
Can someone explain to me what the point of this 'reshuffle' was exactly? A couple of complete nobodies appointed to party roles, and entirely cosmetic departmental rebrand, and all of the big offices of state left untouched. A squib of the dampest order – one only the trio of true believers – Lotta, Morty and G-Man – could love.
Clearly the point of it is to give people like you the opportunity to rubbish it, irrespective of what it actually comprised.
So far it's a minor reshuffle, unsurprisingly given the circumstances, but it seems sensible enough. It's not like one of Blair's idiotic games of musical chairs which moved ministers around just at the point where there might be some small risk that they'd be about to master their briefs.
Then someone, be it the govt's PR, or marketing, or communications directors are at fault.
If it is not a Reshuffle fair enough, in which case expectations should have been managed down ("the right team in place but that's not to say we won't be welcoming new blood...") or it should have been all done by midday and they could move on.
As it is, they allowed the build up of expectations, and then have dashed those expectations (of new blood, of a change, of clearing out the Augean stables, of whatever...) with a hugely underwhelming teeny tiny change dragged out over two days.
So far...
A full on Night of the Long Knives would have been fun, but TM is not NLK material. Knowing how she works, I'd say she planned something major (possibly on the unofficial advice which I bet she is still getting from Fiona and beardy), everyone from the 3 great officers of state to the downing street cat told her over the weekend that if she moved them she was dead meat, and she is now going through the motions but not actually doing anything.
As was predicted over the weekend.
That said, I don't think she could have avoided this one, which looks to have been prompted by James Brokenshire's lung. Hard to replace him - which couldn't be delayed - and not sort out the gap left by Green's departure. And if you replace two office-holders then it's become a reshuffle and you have to resolve other hanging issues, such as the CCHQ posts (which do look a decent set of appointments).
Even so, the error was in allowing the story to leak out well before the changes were made.
Given the current headlines ("chaos reigns" etc), the thread header prediction was just about spot on. (Though it might have also included 'few will notice'.)
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
True, of course, and the trains from Cardiff arn not as good as they could be.
Cardiff is impossible to reach from North Wales and is in many was detached from us. We can get to London quicker and have much more in common with Liverpool and Manchester
We discussed the other day. Difficult to very difficult bit not totally impossible, even from Caernafon. Not too bad from Wrexham, though!
With anyone else, I'd suggest that Jeremy Hunt would only be kept waiting if he had something really nice to wait for. But with Theresa May's personnel skills, that suggestion is not safe to make.
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
Is this available on catch-up TV?
When the Mail write a paragraph like that they usually have the decency to provide pictures.
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
@matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
Is this available on catch-up TV?
Exile to the sidebar of the Daily Mail for you.......
Tories should not be trying to joke about anyone given the state of them, time they concentrated on the day job and stopped playing at toilet attendants.
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
Not a good day for those hoping for big promotions for outside chances. The timidity of the reshuffle makes you wonder why she is carrying it out at all.
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
The bizarre combination of black to show how serious they were and why their views should be listened to with the gratuitous exposure of so much flesh suggests that Hollywood may yet have some way to go.
Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?
A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
+1
DUP are scum! Utter, utter scum...
Just shows how low the Tories have fallen!
Yet the DUP are still infinitely better than some of those the Labour leadership hang out with which just shows how low Labour have fallen.
Besides which it was the electorate and not the Tories that made the deal with the DUP necessary. The electorate gave the Tories a majority in Great Britain and the DUP a majority in Northern Ireland.
@matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
@SamCoatesTimes: Social care portfolio moved from DCLG to Department for Health - Jeremy Hunt remains in job of the new combined role
If true, Bingo! That was the recommendation which our local Conservative branch made a few months ago in response to a Conservative Policy Forum consultation. Basically we said 'forget all the proposals you've asked us about, and do this instead.'
@matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
What has that got to do with this? Non sequitur.
You wouldn't say that if you lived in Wales and needed urgent health care as I did
@matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
Any more money though? Otherwise his post is even more difficult
Not a good day for those hoping for big promotions for outside chances. The timidity of the reshuffle makes you wonder why she is carrying it out at all.
We have had 2 departments renamed. What more do you want?
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
Is this available on catch-up TV?
When the Mail write a paragraph like that they usually have the decency to provide pictures.
Helpfully, the Mail is full of pictures of young ladies with no underwear wearing some hideous black dresses. It looks like they're all at a Convention of Widowed Tarts.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Agreed. It requires a complete reorganisation right down to local hospital level. But this is a good and necessary step towards achieving that.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
I suspect it means that May's ambitions for an Alzheimer's tax are not yet dead but if the focus is properly on ensuring that those needing social care are moved out of hospital beds faster that will be a good thing.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
@christopherhope: NEW Rt Hon Greg Clark MP remains Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. Why is it taking so long to confirm that no one is moving? #CabinetShuffle
@tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
It's worse than that. At the moment there is an active disincentive to local councils to help the NHS get elderly people out of hospitals, since that immediately hits their budgets even if it saves more overall. It's a barmy structure.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
@JGForsyth: Renaming 1 department might be sensible, but renaming 2 begins to make it look like you think you can take care of the difficult bit in the title
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
You are assuming that everything has been thought through!
@tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.
@tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.
On the optics/politics side, she has also missed a trick.
She should have had a press conference, scheduled or impromptu, with Hunt at her side and made an announcement that henceforth she would be adding social care to health..etc, etc...
Instead, the announcement is all but overshadowed by the stasis of the non-reshuffle.
Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.
Probably the most important announcement of the day.
Agreed and one that will unite the party.
Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
It'll unite the country I think. Next step is to take seriously the all-party letter from 90 MPs asking for some points to be accepted after 70 years of the NHS and to move on from that. This doc. attempts to decipher facts from fiction
According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.
Good to see Wales being recognised
Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
Can't agree on a personal level with your statements, particularly in terms of the health service in Wales which from my own experience is very different from yours. The service provided has improved substantially over the last 6 years.
My Mother died in 2011 in the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, mid scandal. The service she received was negligent and her last day on this earth was truly shocking and a moral disgrace.
My 86 year old Father has been in the same hospital since a car accident on 11th October. The quality of service has been exceptional! The clinical care has been faultless and the management at ward level has been highly professional. True, some of the staff couldn't care less, but these people are in the minority and generally agency nurses.
I suspect there is more to the Carl Sargeant issue than meets the eye, but I do hope his son wins the seat in The Welsh Assembly.
@tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.
How can he "refuse" to budge?
His personal reassurance to all the Japanese companies that the UK government will keep frictionless trading with the EU? If Clark goes, bye-bye Nissan, Honda and Toyota.
I love the way journalists make up stories about some minister being moved and then when it doesn't happen make up another story about the minister refusing to budge.
Especially when the minister is Greg Clark, whose political clout in a hypothetical refusal to budge would be approximately the square root of zero.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
Wanna guess?
I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for a cut.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
It's worse than that. At the moment there is an active disincentive to local councils to help the NHS get elderly people out of hospitals, since that immediately hits their budgets even if it saves more overall. It's a barmy structure.
Spot on. Bringing responsibility for both within the same budget would deliver plenty of efficiencies just by cutting out exactly those sort of politics, never mind those that would come from working together.
I must say we really are quite blessed with our leaders.
We have Corbyn who couldn't find anyone to fill places in his reshuffle and took 3 weeks to complete it. And May who manages to move no-one at all and takes almost as long.
There must be something in the air to give us such a splendid choice.
Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
Wanna guess?
I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for a cut.
Yeah, don't borrow the money you think you might save!
@elashton: In HoC, Sarah Wollaston says Toby Young should be asked to resign. "The kind of person who would tweet comments to a woman that talk about masturbating over images of refugees, I'm afraid it just does cross a line."
On the optics/politics side, she has also missed a trick.
She should have had a press conference, scheduled or impromptu, with Hunt at her side and made an announcement that henceforth she would be adding social care to health..etc, etc...
Instead, the announcement is all but overshadowed by the stasis of the non-reshuffle.
Good point. She is useless at this politics lark...
Comments
Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-42602570
DUP are scum! Utter, utter scum...
Just shows how low the Tories have fallen!
(Though it might have also included 'few will notice'.)
Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
And it is. Boring, that is.
Besides which it was the electorate and not the Tories that made the deal with the DUP necessary. The electorate gave the Tories a majority in Great Britain and the DUP a majority in Northern Ireland.
This whole day has been a farce.
I shall be very sorry when we all have to be driven round in milk floats.
Probably the most important announcement of the day.
Helpfully, the Mail is full of pictures of young ladies with no underwear wearing some hideous black dresses. It looks like they're all at a Convention of Widowed Tarts.
Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
Surely Grayling must be a shoo-in for that role?
She should have had a press conference, scheduled or impromptu, with Hunt at her side and made an announcement that henceforth she would be adding social care to health..etc, etc...
Instead, the announcement is all but overshadowed by the stasis of the non-reshuffle.
https://fullfact.org/health/has-nhs-been-judged-best-healthcare-system-world/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_content
My Mother died in 2011 in the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, mid scandal. The service she received was negligent and her last day on this earth was truly shocking and a moral disgrace.
My 86 year old Father has been in the same hospital since a car accident on 11th October. The quality of service has been exceptional! The clinical care has been faultless and the management at ward level has been highly professional. True, some of the staff couldn't care less, but these people are in the minority and generally agency nurses.
I suspect there is more to the Carl Sargeant issue than meets the eye, but I do hope his son wins the seat in The Welsh Assembly.
Especially when the minister is Greg Clark, whose political clout in a hypothetical refusal to budge would be approximately the square root of zero.
Let's hope that this is the beginning of a grown up debate seeking consensus and taking this most important of subjects out of party politics
We have Corbyn who couldn't find anyone to fill places in his reshuffle and took 3 weeks to complete it. And May who manages to move no-one at all and takes almost as long.
There must be something in the air to give us such a splendid choice.
@elashton: In HoC, Sarah Wollaston says Toby Young should be asked to resign. "The kind of person who would tweet comments to a woman that talk about masturbating over images of refugees, I'm afraid it just does cross a line."