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  • Scott_P said:
    What's going on here? We were given the distinct impression that the DUP were 'on board'. Who's jumped the gun? Someone high up in government or just a low-grade minion more keen than capable?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:
    Ha ha ha ! What about the views of the Northern Irish people. Do they not count ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Like a fine wine.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
    one could see that about the EU
    Today's events prove that Brexit is sailing majestically on whilst the EU teeters on the brink of chaos.

    I don't think.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
    No,hard brexit here we come.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,233
    Oh dear. Theresa about to be ripped a new one. When will the daft woman resign. Thank God for the DUP.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,399
    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,233
    edited December 2017
    Dupe
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    The plot twists and turns every minute.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    with the betrayal of Brexit going on today in Brussels I can see 48 signatures to the 1922 committee after tonights 4pm Tory MP meeting. JRM on the ballot to deliver Real Brexit
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    This is high drama. Who's going to blink first, May or the DUP?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:
    Norway, Switzerland, Turkey : any will be better than Brexit as we have been told.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    kjohnw said:

    with the betrayal of Brexit going on today in Brussels I can see 48 signatures to the 1922 committee after tonights 4pm Tory MP meeting. JRM on the ballot to deliver Real Brexit

    Comedy time.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,335
    edited December 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    The plot twists and turns every minute.
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: BREAK; Senior govt source tells me it still “too close to call” re Ireland border but draft wording in and govt “quietly confident it will be resolved” by close of play. Told #DUP on board

    Thread header in tatters already :D ?
    I could be a bounder and mention this by you :lol:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397
    dr_spyn said:
    Simple solution. We all stay in the SM+CU (or even better the EU). No-one diverges fromn anyone else. Bit tricky to sort out over lunch however.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617


    Pulpstar said:

    The plot twists and turns every minute.
    I could be a bounder and mention this by you :lol:
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: BREAK; Senior govt source tells me it still “too close to call” re Ireland border but draft wording in and govt “quietly confident it will be resolved” by close of play. Told #DUP on board

    Thread header in tatters already :D ?
    Oh you cad !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:
    Maybe May is doing her service to the nation and then go. She has realised Brexit will be a disaster.
  • PhyloPhylo Posts: 2
    I'm running out of popcorn already.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    surbiton said:

    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.

    Mundell's entire statement on whether Scotland should get the same deal is "No".

    So that's that then.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    kjohnw said:

    with the betrayal of Brexit going on today in Brussels I can see 48 signatures to the 1922 committee after tonights 4pm Tory MP meeting. JRM on the ballot to deliver Real Brexit

    Bannon Brexit, if reports of JRM's schmoozing are correct.
  • So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?

    (1) Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
    (2) No exclusive ECJ role for EU citizens in the UK
    (3) Brexit bill of c.£40-£50bn over 40 years, rather than €100bn
    (4) That a Canada-deal would be offered in principle
    (5) NI is not formally staying part of the single market/customs union
    (6) A transition deal of around 2 years

    But, I'd agree the negotiating advantage has been about 75/25 in favour of the EU, so far.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/937699877143941120

    Hello, Arlene? Theresa here. Hello. Hello. Hello...
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    FF43 said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Simple solution. We all stay in the SM+CU (or even better the EU). No-one diverges fromn anyone else. Bit tricky to sort out over lunch however.
    Not so simple we voted to end FOM and take back control of our laws, and strike our own trade deals, not of which is possible in SM and CU. remaining in EU in all but name, this will not be acceptable to voters
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Alistair said:

    surbiton said:

    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.

    Mundell's entire statement on whether Scotland should get the same deal is "No".

    So that's that then.
    Her Majesty's Gov't most loyal Scot :)
  • DanSmith said:

    This is high drama. Who's going to blink first, May or the DUP?

    What odds are you offering me on Theresa May?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
    No,hard brexit here we come.
    You have got the comma in the wrong place. This is how it should be:

    No hard Brexit, here we come!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,233
    edited December 2017

    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?

    Davis has been negotiating with his hands tied. It's been another Cameron negotiation, and for much the same reason. May is as comitted to a non-Brexit Brexit as much as Cameron was comitted to us staying in on unchanged terms.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    DanSmith said:

    This is high drama. Who's going to blink first, May or the DUP?

    Well the British government have given the EU everything they want,who do you think ;-)
  • Scott_P said:
    Barnier won't move on to the profiteroles until May is judged to have made adequate progress on the salmon
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?

    (1) Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
    (2) No exclusive ECJ role for EU citizens in the UK
    (3) Brexit bill of c.£40-£50bn over 40 years, rather than €100bn
    (4) That a Canada-deal would be offered in principle
    (5) NI is not formally staying part of the single market/customs union
    (6) A transition deal of around 2 years

    But, I'd agree the negotiating advantage has been about 75/25 in favour of the EU, so far.
    Be serious, you don't really believe that.

    For instance, at the start of this process, Davis was saying that there was no need for a transition deal and any transition would only happen if the EU wanted one and asked the UK nicely.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories
  • Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    I reckon Mrs May tried to sabotage Brexit by appointing David Davis as Brexit Secretary and Boris as Foreign Secretary.
  • JonathanD said:

    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?

    (1) Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
    (2) No exclusive ECJ role for EU citizens in the UK
    (3) Brexit bill of c.£40-£50bn over 40 years, rather than €100bn
    (4) That a Canada-deal would be offered in principle
    (5) NI is not formally staying part of the single market/customs union
    (6) A transition deal of around 2 years

    But, I'd agree the negotiating advantage has been about 75/25 in favour of the EU, so far.
    Be serious, you don't really believe that.

    For instance, at the start of this process, Davis was saying that there was no need for a transition deal and any transition would only happen if the EU wanted one and asked the UK nicely.
    I think it's fair to say David Davis has been on a journey as well.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    Both have the immense advantage of having decided what they want. The Tories are clueless on that front and as a result could be outwitted by a paper bag.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,932
    Isn't it rather analogous to our joining the ERM... ?
    We were committed not to diverge from a particular exchange rate... until we weren't.
  • Phylo said:

    I'm running out of popcorn already.

    Only just getting up to speed on all this.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/937696227386380288
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    welshowl said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyNewsBreak: DUP leader Arlene Foster says her party will "not accept any form of regulatory divergence" in Ireland after Brexit and the Irish government is "clearly seeking to unilaterally change the Belfast agreement"

    Hmm. That's rather put the kibosh on it. Is this just rhetoric or will Theresa and DD be instructed to go back and try again?
    Or you can square that by our being in a sort of EEA as the UK, ie there’s “no regulatory divergence” on trade between UK and NI or NI and ROI/EU, but UK presumably would be able to sign trade deals still (though having to take into account no divergence from EU regulations eg agriculture), and one assumes reassert meaningful limits on immigration.

    We would’ve swapped 12.5% say in the rule setting of the Single Market for the ability to do limited but better trade deals outside of Europe (plus no FOM? - except between U.K. and ROI of course which has existed pre EU) And we would’ve left the political structures of the EU. Sort of Norway minus???

    Wouldn’t be a bad position at all.

    Doubtless more cash heading to NI one way and another too to be a tad cynical.
    Sounds a completely rubbish arrangement to me. It sacrifices influence where it matters for almost nothing.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397
    edited December 2017
    kjohnw said:

    with the betrayal of Brexit going on today in Brussels I can see 48 signatures to the 1922 committee after tonights 4pm Tory MP meeting. JRM on the ballot to deliver Real Brexit

    I can see those signatures too. JRM delivering "Real Brexit", I am not so sure of. I suspect the Conservative Party is not collectively ready yet to drink the cyanide-laced kool-aid
  • Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    Both have the immense advantage of having decided what they want. The Tories are clueless on that front and as a result could be outwitted by a paper bag.
    Hard to disagree with that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617

    Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    I reckon Mrs May tried to sabotage Brexit by appointing David Davis as Brexit Secretary and Boris as Foreign Secretary.
    The 'senior source' must have been Davis, or Johnson, or ,,,, Mogg !
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?

    (1) Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
    (2) No exclusive ECJ role for EU citizens in the UK
    (3) Brexit bill of c.£40-£50bn over 40 years, rather than €100bn
    (4) That a Canada-deal would be offered in principle
    (5) NI is not formally staying part of the single market/customs union
    (6) A transition deal of around 2 years

    But, I'd agree the negotiating advantage has been about 75/25 in favour of the EU, so far.
    You are wasting your breath. The hardliners on both the Remain and Leave sides have agendas to push and will declare any reasonable compromise as a car crash. If we maintain trade links in 2021 while ending the EU courts' jurisdiction in the UK and controlling immigration, then it will be a success for most Leavers. It is just the government are still negotiating so it suits them to be seen to have given a lot. Meanwhile the insatiable opposition to Brexit shout their heads off.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:
    Is Brexit about to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions?
    No,hard brexit here we come.
    You have got the comma in the wrong place. This is how it should be:

    No hard Brexit, here we come!
    Ok brexit then,glad you on-board surby ;-)
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Phylo said:

    I'm running out of popcorn already.

    Only just getting up to speed on all this.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/937696227386380288
    Can somebody take Alexander Kerensky outside and end this farce?

    Give us a Brexiteer in 10 Downing Street. Now.
  • DanSmith said:

    This is high drama. Who's going to blink first, May or the DUP?

    What would the DUP gain by backing down? Nothing.
    What would they lose by backing down? Credibility with their supporters and some seats if the Tory boundary review goes through.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    Both have the immense advantage of having decided what they want. The Tories are clueless on that front and as a result could be outwitted by a paper bag.
    Hard to disagree with that.
    Wasn't it pointed out months ago that the DUP are the best negotiators in the business?

    Perhaps she should have put one of them in charge of Brexit?
  • Calm down dears. It's politically necessary that:

    - The Irish government are seen to have 'won' something
    - The DUP are seen to have ensured that the Irish government haven't won anything
    - The EU27 are seen to have driven a hard bargain
    - The UK government is seen to have displeased the hardline Brexiteers
    - The talks move on the actual substance of the future relationship
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Scott_P said:
    That includes losing billions upon billions of revenue every year after 2022, does it? Or maybe it is just another Remain journalist looking for a clickbait headline to confirm the prejudices of his readers.
  • Can I expect an apology from all of those who criticised me for doing this thread?

    Can I?

    I am a political seer, especially when it comes to Theresa May (and her screwing things up)
  • Alistair said:

    surbiton said:

    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.

    Mundell's entire statement on whether Scotland should get the same deal is "No".

    So that's that then.
    Has Ruth lost her twitter login details or the phone numbers of her many media contacts? Apparently she's the one supposed to be cutting a special deal for Scotland. We need leadership at this difficult time.

    https://twitter.com/naughtiej/status/937665203273003009
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    Elliot said:

    Scott_P said:
    That includes losing billions upon billions of revenue every year after 2022, does it? Or maybe it is just another Remain journalist looking for a clickbait headline to confirm the prejudices of his readers.
    Do you think the EU is going to offer a 'deep and special partnership' with no ongoing financial contributions?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397

    DanSmith said:

    This is high drama. Who's going to blink first, May or the DUP?

    What would the DUP gain by backing down? Nothing.
    What would they lose by backing down? Credibility with their supporters and some seats if the Tory boundary review goes through.
    Would Labour support a cross party agreement on Article 50 phase 1 with "SM+ CU for the time being", or whatever their current wording is? Would the government accept it in the absence of DUP support? How would Tory Hard Leavers react?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617

    Can I expect an apology from all of those who criticised me for doing this thread?

    Can I?

    I am a political seer, especially when it comes to Theresa May (and her screwing things up)
    Looks like you were right, and I Beth Rigby was wrong :)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    So, Theresa May entered the most difficult negotiations in recent British history entirely dependent on the votes of a party whose entire identity was founded on very loudly saying "NO".

    Who could have foreseen that might go badly?
  • tim80tim80 Posts: 99

    So what exactly have the EU conceded to Mr Davis over 18 months of negotiations?


    1. That there would be no discussions in Ph1 other than money, NI and citizens. In fact, discussions have been far wider including WTO schedules, nuclear cooperation and emissions trading scheme
    2. That a transition would only be discussed in Ph3, after future arrangements agreed in Ph 2. Now the plan is to discuss transition in parallel or possible before (you may remember that previously the EU used an analogy about not being able to build a bridge until one knew the destination)
    3. That all negotiations would be via formal rounds, with press confeeences at the end and published papers etc. This system has rightly collapsed, in favour of regular but behind the scenes negotiations
    4. That TMay would not be able to negotiate, only Davis. Again, rightly collapsed, as we see today
    5. That the ECJ would have to oversee citizen rights (the exact extent of the EU’s climb down here is not yet known)
    6. That the U.K. had to come up with solutions for NI and the EU would not (always a silly one, but a change from it nevertheless)

    In addition, looking ahead to the FTA, we now hear little from the EU about ‘no cherry picking’ or ‘a pa carts menus’. These were very much the mantra in the first 6-12 months post ref, but now the EU is gearing itself up for CETA plus.

    There may be others - eg money - but lack of published detail so far.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,932
    edited December 2017

    Can I expect an apology from all of those who criticised me for doing this thread?

    Can I?

    I am a political seer, especially when it comes to Theresa May (and her screwing things up)
    I merely cricticised your somewhat clumsy wording; the thread itself is not at all ridiculous.

    I am nonetheless rather attached to the idea of a Regulatory Alignment Mechanism ... which we can subsequently crash out of under Chancellor McDonnell/Gove*.

    *delete to taste.
  • tim80 said:

    Oops. More nonsense from TSE. Looks like his twitter excitement a little premature

    Ahem, I said AHEM
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited December 2017

    Alistair said:

    surbiton said:

    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.

    Mundell's entire statement on whether Scotland should get the same deal is "No".

    So that's that then.
    Has Ruth lost her twitter login details or the phone numbers of her many media contacts? Apparently she's the one supposed to be cutting a special deal for Scotland. We need leadership at this difficult time.

    https://twitter.com/naughtiej/status/937665203273003009
    Makes no sense. What land border does Scotland share with the EU? The lesson of NI and Ireland is that countries sharing a land border should have the same regulatory regime. For the island of Great Britain, that means Wales, Scotland and England should all be in the same single market.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484

    I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out girfuy.

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/937670964816556033

    I'd been undecided till now, but if Nigel Farage is crying betrayal, this has to be a reasonable deal.
    Who gives a toss what Farage thinks! Not UKIP leader, not an MP and now revealed as a man who recycles anti-Semitic tropes, allies himself with German Fascists and sees nothing wrong with retweeting Britain First propaganda.......

    The less regard we give him, the better as far as I’m concerned.
  • Say the DUP thing fell apart, would the LibDems support the government in return for a second referendum?
  • Scott_P said:
    He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    However, Sadiq Khan should be getting his request in on this front PDQ.
  • What qualifies as "regulatory divergence"?

    For example, NI and Eire already operate two different currencies, NI has a distinct legal identity, whilst sharing the UK's regulatory systems, but shares similar rules on abortion with Eire, and the north/south council already co-ordinates areas of co-operation (such as agriculture, education and health) and has a distinct railway gauge separate from the UK mainland.

    Fudge is already a reality, and arguably has been for almost 100 years.
  • Say the DUP thing fell apart, would the LibDems support the government in return for a second referendum?

    Top trolling! :-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @KevDoyle_Indo: I'm told An Taoiseach can't make his statement yet because he's waiting on a phonecall from Donald Tusk. But Tusk can't phone Varadkar because he waiting to hear from Jean Claude Juncker. #Brexit They need a WhatsApps group!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820

    Say the DUP thing fell apart, would the LibDems support the government in return for a second referendum?

    They should make an unsolicited C&S offer on that basis. No need to worry about retoxification as they're still flatlining, and we're heading towards a second referendum anyway so they would be able to take the credit for it.
  • Wow. Entertainment doesn't cover today.

    Theresa May the Omnishambles

    https://youtu.be/6pOqqyFH7cU
  • Pulpstar said:

    Both the DUP and the EU seem to be running rings round the Tories

    Both have the immense advantage of having decided what they want. The Tories are clueless on that front and as a result could be outwitted by a paper bag.
    Hard to disagree with that.
    Wasn't it pointed out months ago that the DUP are the best negotiators in the business?

    Perhaps she should have put one of them in charge of Brexit?
    Probably the Brexiteers greatest allies.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240

    He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
  • What qualifies as "regulatory divergence"?

    For example, NI and Eire already operate two different currencies, NI has a distinct legal identity, whilst sharing the UK's regulatory systems, but shares similar rules on abortion with Eire, and the north/south council already co-ordinates areas of co-operation (such as agriculture, education and health) and has a distinct railway gauge separate from the UK mainland.

    Fudge is already a reality, and arguably has been for almost 100 years.

    I suspect it'll be like the Full Faith and Credit Clause in America

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Faith_and_Credit_Clause
  • tim80tim80 Posts: 99

    tim80 said:

    Oops. More nonsense from TSE. Looks like his twitter excitement a little premature

    Ahem, I said AHEM
    Ahem what?

    All this gives the appearance that you breathlessly overreact to tweets whilst all of us are actually in the dark as to the facts of the situation.

    What’s more, the heading “the DUP will bring down Mrs May’s Government” is either very poorly worded, or a declaration that is not yet supported by known facts.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out girfuy.

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/937670964816556033

    I'd been undecided till now, but if Nigel Farage is crying betrayal, this has to be a reasonable deal.
    Who gives a toss what Farage thinks! Not UKIP leader, not an MP and now revealed as a man who recycles anti-Semitic tropes, allies himself with German Fascists and sees nothing wrong with retweeting Britain First propaganda.......

    The less regard we give him, the better as far as I’m concerned.
    Some will say he was always like this, but he seems to have got worse and worse over the last three years.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The UK is going to be the first country to sign up to the full conditions of EU membership, and pay the full fee, without actually being a member and having a vote.

    Awesome!!!
  • JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    surbiton said:

    It was always coming that the DUP will be thrown under the bus. But I have to say this is the most logical outcome, if reports are true.

    We must not forget that the people of NI voted to stay in the EU, i.e. in the Single Market and the Customs Union.

    Scotland should be given the same opportunity. Scotland will have a case.

    Mundell's entire statement on whether Scotland should get the same deal is "No".

    So that's that then.
    Has Ruth lost her twitter login details or the phone numbers of her many media contacts? Apparently she's the one supposed to be cutting a special deal for Scotland. We need leadership at this difficult time.

    https://twitter.com/naughtiej/status/937665203273003009
    Makes no sense. What land border does Scotland share with the EU? The lesson of NI and Ireland is that countries sharing a land border should have the same regulatory regime. For the island of Great Britain, that means Wales, Scotland and England should all be in the same single market.
    Ruth has had so many positions on EU membership, single market, FoM etc that I've given up trying to work out whether if she actually has a principled, consistent view. However Jim Naughtie seems to think she does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    The day the music died?
  • Scott_P said:

    @thatginamiller: Could someone wake up the politicians and tell them there are only 2 solutions to Brexit and NI border issue - stay in the Single Market & Customs Union or #Remain.


    Or Ireland rejoins the UK
  • Scott_P said:

    @KevDoyle_Indo: I'm told An Taoiseach can't make his statement yet because he's waiting on a phonecall from Donald Tusk. But Tusk can't phone Varadkar because he waiting to hear from Jean Claude Juncker. #Brexit They need a WhatsApps group!

    That's quite revealing: they all take their order from Juncker.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820

    Cyclefree said:

    I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out girfuy.

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/937670964816556033

    I'd been undecided till now, but if Nigel Farage is crying betrayal, this has to be a reasonable deal.
    Who gives a toss what Farage thinks! Not UKIP leader, not an MP and now revealed as a man who recycles anti-Semitic tropes, allies himself with German Fascists and sees nothing wrong with retweeting Britain First propaganda.......

    The less regard we give him, the better as far as I’m concerned.
    Some will say he was always like this, but he seems to have got worse and worse over the last three years.
    It's happened to many people. Michael Howard didn't used to threaten war on Spain.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484

    If the DUP are going to try and torpedo the deal it is time for the Lib Dems and Labour to support the government to ensure we have a decent Brexit deal.

    we want Jezza
    If labour sniff the chance of a GE they'll not be proping up the government. Screw brexit and a deal.
    And if they become the government, what then? The Irish border issue will still be there, with even less time to resolve it.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out girfuy.

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/937670964816556033

    I'd been undecided till now, but if Nigel Farage is crying betrayal, this has to be a reasonable deal.
    Who gives a toss what Farage thinks! Not UKIP leader, not an MP and now revealed as a man who recycles anti-Semitic tropes, allies himself with German Fascists and sees nothing wrong with retweeting Britain First propaganda.......

    The less regard we give him, the better as far as I’m concerned.
    There's some former Kippers on here who will accuse you of smearing Farage by accusing him of recycling anti-Semitic tropes.
  • Scott_P said:

    The UK is going to be the first country to sign up to the full conditions of EU membership, and pay the full fee, without actually being a member and having a vote.

    Awesome!!!

    That's exactly the EU's objective. Juncker: "Brexit cannot be a success."

    I expect our Government to negotiate skilfully, not ineptly.
  • He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    You have to draw the line somewhere or you'll go into the pub for one pint and not leave until you've had 14. Carwyn Jones asked for Wales as a whole and Wales as a whole voted for Brexit so it can do one.

    Though I agree with you that Theresa May has started a game of constitutional striptease. Far naughtier than running through a wheatfield.
  • He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    You have to draw the line somewhere or you'll go into the pub for one pint and not leave until you've had 14. Carwyn Jones asked for Wales as a whole and Wales as a whole voted for Brexit so it can do one.

    Though I agree with you that Theresa May has started a game of constitutional striptease. Far naughtier than running through a wheatfield.
    Can you please not use the word striptrease and Theresa May in the same sentence.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    This is perhaps a more useful tweet that any others Ive seen in months.
  • He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    You have to draw the line somewhere or you'll go into the pub for one pint and not leave until you've had 14. Carwyn Jones asked for Wales as a whole and Wales as a whole voted for Brexit so it can do one.

    Though I agree with you that Theresa May has started a game of constitutional striptease. Far naughtier than running through a wheatfield.
    Can you please not use the word striptrease and Theresa May in the same sentence.
    I was thinking of using "constitutional striptease" in a thread header. Oh well.
  • He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    Fine, so long as I can opt-out of Corbyn coz I live in true-blue Hampshire.

    Otherwise this is people moaning that their own political views should override the social union of the nation state, which is arguably what got us to Brexit in the first place.
  • I'm not convinced it is all as bad as it appears.

    But I keeping saying Brexit won't happen.
  • He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    You have to draw the line somewhere or you'll go into the pub for one pint and not leave until you've had 14. Carwyn Jones asked for Wales as a whole and Wales as a whole voted for Brexit so it can do one.

    Though I agree with you that Theresa May has started a game of constitutional striptease. Far naughtier than running through a wheatfield.
    Can you please not use the word striptrease and Theresa May in the same sentence.
    I was thinking of using "constitutional striptease" in a thread header. Oh well.
    You can use it in that contest, however I get to choose the picture that graces that thread.
  • Scott_P said:

    @thatginamiller: Could someone wake up the politicians and tell them there are only 2 solutions to Brexit and NI border issue - stay in the Single Market & Customs Union or #Remain.


    Or Ireland rejoins the UK
    Yeh, right. There'll be no trouble whatsoever if that starts to be proposed.
  • I'm not convinced it is all as bad as it appears.

    But I keeping saying Brexit won't happen.

    Why do you (and others) keep saying that?

    Brexit is happening, and can only be overridden by a new GE and, most likely, a second referendum where the EU would offer worse terms than Dave's deal. Because it's in their DNA to punish splitters.

    We are committed.
  • Scott_P said:
    No, it exposes the weakness of the hand that our Remain-voting PM and most of her Cabinet think they've got, as opposed to the hand they actually hold. They're playing poker under the impression that aces rank low not high, and the EU knows it. It's utterly exasperating to watch.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    He can get stuffed. The Welsh voted for Brexit so they can suffer the consequences.

    Ceredigion and Gwynedd didn't, though. And hence the problem. Where do you draw the line?

    If Northern Ireland, why not Scotland? If Scotland, why not London? If London, why not Manchester? If Manchester, why not the Oxford/Cambridge belt?
    Fine, so long as I can opt-out of Corbyn coz I live in true-blue Hampshire.

    Otherwise this is people moaning that their own political views should override the social union of the nation state, which is arguably what got us to Brexit in the first place.
    Leave were quite happy to play with the social union of the nation during the referendum campaign and play one section off against another. Best not to complain now that its boomeranged.
  • Scott_P said:
    Surely it has to be Xi. He has cemented himself as the supreme leader of China to an unprecedented degree. But no sure I want to bet at 4/1.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    IanB2 said:

    The day the music died?

    The terms "wake up" and "smell the coffee" has come up. What happened to the £350m per week to the NHS ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820

    Scott_P said:
    No, it exposes the weakness of the hand that our Remain-voting PM and most of her Cabinet think they've got, as opposed to the hand they actually hold. They're playing poker under the impression that aces rank low not high, and the EU knows it. It's utterly exasperating to watch.
    How do you think the UK should be playing its hand?
This discussion has been closed.