No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
Can you help explain this paradox, as it has confounded me for days.
To me it’s clear the EU side have no intention of getting a mutually beneficial deal. Their playbook is to run down the clock and present a massively one-sided deal at the last minute - with the alternative being a crash-out with planes grounded etc. That’s why the offer now is important, because it gives us time to prepare for no-deal if it becomes obvious that’s where we’re headed.
Which is why, wearing my negotaiators hat, I have been saying for a while that HMG needs to make the EU a take it or leave offer. A reasonable sum - say £40bn - with a clear list of what we get for our money. We could take our time, tell the EU that the next series of meetings are off, we will let them have our document in, say, March. Use the time to nail as much of the specifics as we can think of.
Then present it and say to the EU - your call. £40 bn - or no pounds, no pennies and WTO. You tell us which you want. If it is no money, then we will of course spend the next year sitting down with the EU - or your members, one on one - making sure that the planes can still fly etc. But our business needs to have time to plan for whichever outcome, and frankly, your tactic of a last minute, very expensive and one-sided deal ain't going to work for us.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
To retain support of Remainers, Jezza doesn't have to be a Remainer. He just has to be slightly more of a Remainer than May and the Eurosceptics that hold her captive.
Exactly. It would be tactically daft of Labour to adopt the Lib Dem 100% remain position at the moment, though it may become sensible later if and when a hard Brexit looms. And if it does become sensible then Corbyn has the political space to adopt it.
For most Labour supporters the EU is not the defining issue that it is for many Tories - they are not too bothered about it either way and are quite happy for the Party to keep its options open and watch the Tories implode.
IF - big IF - we have a take-it-or-leave-it offer to the EU - and they leave it, so we head for WTO Hard Brexit, Labour still has to answer the question "so how much would you have paid?" Which easily gets twisted by the meida as "Labour would have caved to EU blackmail - whatever the cost".
Not exactly helpful.
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitness for purpose. It will be very easy to make the case that they were not interested in "reparations", merely trying to hamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
To me it’s clear the EU side have no intention of getting a mutually beneficial deal. Their playbook is to run down the clock and present a massively one-sided deal at the last minute - with the alternative being a crash-out with planes grounded etc. That’s why the offer now is important, because it gives us time to prepare for no-deal if it becomes obvious that’s where we’re headed.
Why should the EU not want a mutually beneficial deal? We obviously won't get a deal as good as the one we had but it is not to their advantage to 'punish' us. Which side would an unbiased person think is behaving childishly at the moment?
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
Good news, someone in the open source community has a solution for you: a batch file converter plugin for Libre Office. https://sourceforge.net/projects/bulkconvertulo/ I can’t vouch for it, and don’t have a laptop to hand to try it, but no harm in giving it a go as long as you have backups.
There’s also a document converter wizard in LO, but not sure what formats it works in.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
Can you help explain this paradox, as it has confounded me for days.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
Can you help explain this paradox, as it has confounded me for days.
Trade deal so no hard border between A and D either. Now let's get on with trade talks and make.ot happen.
PS the issue is only trade not migration. For migration there's is already a border between A and D but not B and C. Common Travel Area as opposed to Schengen.
To retain support of Remainers, Jezza doesn't have to be a Remainer. He just has to be slightly more of a Remainer than May and the Eurosceptics that hold her captive.
Exactly. It would be tactically daft of Labour to adopt the Lib Dem 100% remain position at the moment, though it may become sensible later if and when a hard Brexit looms. And if it does become sensible then Corbyn has the political space to adopt it.
For most Labour supporters the EU is not the defining issue that it is for many Tories - they are not too bothered about it either way and are quite happy for the Party to keep its options open and watch the Tories implode.
IF - big IF - we have a take-it-or-leave-it offer to the EU - and they leave it, so we head for WTO Hard Brexit, Labour still has to answer the question "so how much would you have paid?" Which easily gets twisted by the meida as "Labour would have caved to EU blackmail - whatever the cost".
Not exactly helpful.
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitness for purpose. It will be very easy to make the case that they were not interested in "reparations", merely trying to hamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
We'll see. But if it comes to grounded flights, queues at Dover and shortages of essential goods then I very much doubt that any government could ride it out.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
There will be a year between "no deal" and leaving to organise all of these administration problems. One imagines some kind of certification programme and equivalency status will be agreed in fairly short order.
Trade deal so no hard border between A and D either. Now let's get on with trade talks and make.ot happen.
PS the issue is only trade not migration. For migration there's is already a border between A and D but not B and C. Common Travel Area as opposed to Schengen.
If we want a trade deal that eliminates the need for a hard border between A and D, that means staying in the customs union.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
Can you help explain this paradox, as it has confounded me for days.
There is already a "hard" border between C and D for personal travel. There are two issues here, personal travel and a customs border. For the former there is already a hard border between the UK/IRE and the rest of the EU. For the latter one would need to be created between B and C.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
Those halcyon days when the terms of departure were going to be agreed in an afternoon over a cup of Earl Grey and a chocolate hobnob are far behind us.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
We're taking back control of our borders, except our only physical border with a foreign country.
To retain support of Remainers, Jezza doesn't have to be a Remainer. He just has to be slightly more of a Remainer than May and the Eurosceptics that hold her captive.
For most Labour supporters the EU is not the defining issue that it is for many Tories - they are not too bothered about it either way and are quite happy for the Party to keep its options open and watch the Tories implode.
IF - big IF - we have a take-it-or-leave-it offer to the EU - and they leave it, so we head for WTO Hard Brexit, Labour still has to answer the question "so how much would you have paid?" Which easily gets twisted by the meida as "Labour would have caved to EU blackmail - whatever the cost".
Not exactly helpful.
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitness for purpose. It will be very easy to make the case that they were not interested in "reparations", merely trying to hamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
We'll see. But if it comes to grounded flights, queues at Dover and shortages of essential goods then I very much doubt that any government could ride it out.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
Willie Walsh not concerned
Essentially the CAA performs all the functions of the EASA in the UK under delegated authority (and performed them all on its own prior to the EASA being founded).
There is a paperwork exercise that needs to be completed but if the EU refused to allow the CAA to steps up to being a member of Open Skies then that would be an active decision by the EU to be hostile. The US had made clear they will immediately sign Open Skies agreement with the UK on current terms
Just wait until Brexit turns into a full blown economic disaster, Leavers are going to get this in kind with interest.
It'll be like after The Netherlands were liberated in 1944, the women that slept with the Germans were stripped and had their heads shaved.
I REALLY look forward to your lot putting the boot ruby slipper into those who voted Leave. After all, you have assured us for many months that they are brutish, knuckle-dragging vicious neanderthals....
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitness for purpose. It will be very easy to make the case that they were not interested in "reparations", merely trying to hamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
We'll see. But if it comes to grounded flights, queues at Dover and shortages of essential goods then I very much doubt that any government could ride it out.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
We went through this one a few weeks back. Yes, all UK registered planes, airlines and certified professionals (pilots, maintainance, dispatchers, ATC) come under and are regulated by EASA. If we leave the EU with no deal then it is said that EASA rules lapse automatically, so no planes can land or take off from the UK and no British registered planes can fly nor professionals with British licences will be allowed to work worldwide.
The workaround is for Parliament to legislate the EASA powers back to the UK CAA - as they used to be - and apply for recognition to ICAO, the UN quango that oversees aviation internationally.
A different issue are the Single European Sky and Open Skies agreements, by which EU commercial airlines are allowed to operate in any EU country, and regulate flights between the EU and North America respectively. These come under the trade talks.
Just wait until Brexit turns into a full blown economic disaster, Leavers are going to get this in kind with interest.
It'll be like after The Netherlands were liberated in 1944, the women that slept with the Germans were stripped and had their heads shaved.
I REALLY look forward to your lot putting the boot ruby slipper into those who voted Leave. After all, you have assured us for many months that they are brutish, knuckle-dragging vicious neanderthals....
#AnotherBrexitBloodbath
It won't be the Remainers doing it, it'll be the people conned into voting for Leave, they'll want a reckoning for those that sold them a pup.
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
Deciding not to levy customs duties has nothing to do with "not controlling your borders".
Just wait until Brexit turns into a full blown economic disaster, Leavers are going to get this in kind with interest.
It'll be like after The Netherlands were liberated in 1944, the women that slept with the Germans were stripped and had their heads shaved.
I REALLY look forward to your lot putting the boot ruby slipper into those who voted Leave. After all, you have assured us for many months that they are brutish, knuckle-dragging vicious neanderthals....
#AnotherBrexitBloodbath
It won't be the Remainers doing it, it'll be the people conned into voting for Leave, they'll want a reckoning for those that sold them a pup.
Of course it will....
We've already had a reckoning - for those who tried to sell us the pup of "renegotiation".
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
Pay your grand kids to do it?
Could try that, I suppose. Not entirely sure it would work!
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitness for purpose. It will be very easy to make the case that they were not interested in "reparations", merely trying to hamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
We'll see. But if it comes to grounded flights, queues at Dover and shortages of essential goods then I very much doubt that any government could ride it out.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
We went through this one a few weeks back. Yes, all UK registered planes, airlines and certified professionals (pilots, maintainance, dispatchers, ATC) come under and are regulated by EASA. If we leave the EU with no deal then it is said that EASA rules lapse automatically, so no planes can land or take off from the UK and no British registered planes can fly nor professionals with British licences will be allowed to work worldwide.
The workaround is for Parliament to legislate the EASA powers back to the UK CAA - as they used to be - and apply for recognition to ICAO, the UN quango that oversees aviation internationally.
A different issue are the Single European Sky and Open Skies agreements, by which EU commercial airlines are allowed to operate in any EU country, and regulate flights between the EU and North America respectively. These come under the trade talks.
(Apologies for all the jargon and abbreviations)
So if we are not stuffed by falling out of EASA we will certainly be stuffed by having nothing to replace the open skies agreement if the trade talks don't come up trumps.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
Having the freedom to choose how to control them.
Voting Leave to take back control of our borders means not taking control of our one physical border?
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Yes, same as if we choose an electronic system with random checks in the area. It’s the EU that want the border back in place, and they’re trying as hard as they can to make it look like our problem.
Can you help explain this paradox, as it has confounded me for days.
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Yes, he wants people taking a director salary in his department actually around to be consulted and doing some work for it, rather than just turning up for one meeting a fortnight as non-execs.
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
You can't really make an offer like that in that way - you'd need to know what the regulatory structure of the trade deal would look like before that would be possible.
I suppose you could say that " We will pledge £50Bn so long as we enter framework negotiations into a trade deal which passes the WTO standard for FTAs, and also includes access to financial markets".
If not, then we will pay only that which is legally liable (2 years membership to end of 2021).
No. No deal Brexit will be agreed early next year which still leaves a year to sort out the administration.
How do you 'administer' the introduction of a hard border in Northern Ireland?
Ireland and the UK are both in the CTA. Neither are a member of Schengen. There is and has always been a hard border between both nations and the continent. If I travel from Dublin to Paris I have to go through the same checks as I would when travelling from London.
The new border would be a customs border, not for personal travel. It's still an issue, but there aren't going to be passport controls unless Ireland unilaterally decides to leave the CTA and join Schengen.
If we choose not to levy any duties then the border is up to the EU and Ireland.
Nice spot of control reclamation, there - it's up to a furriner as to whether our country has border controls or not.
The point is that it benefits UK consumers and at the same time passes the buck to the EU on the Irish border which they are so solicitous about.
What else is sovereignty about if not controlling your borders?
Having the freedom to choose how to control them.
Voting Leave to take back control of our borders means not taking control of our one physical border?
Strictly speaking there are at least three:
1) Norn Iron / Republic of Ireland 2) Gibraltar / Spain 3) Cypriot bases / Cyprus
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
What is with all the dachshunds being used in advertising lately? (See bottom of page) Is some senior ad exec making a killing out of what some perceive as a ‘ cute’ dog that he owns? Or is it just a fashion thing?
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
It was always going to be a humiliating experience that would unleash anger. That's the nature of what the UK voted for.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
It was always going to be a humiliating experience that would unleash anger. That's the nature of what the UK voted for.
And the UK will be all the better to rid itself of the idiotic EU
He worked 2 days a month, Gove demanded 3 days a week.
Gove on the ball here
Err 2 days a week is what NEDs do, 3 days a week is the sort of job a full time Director does.
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
Er - when did Gove ever have the power to award peerages or knighthoods?
Nominate them.
The list of who can nominate is extensive. And it doesn't mean it happens. Stilll have to be signed off by someoone who might just as easily say "get the fuck out of here...." Unless of course, the nomination was entirely justified.
If it looks like "hard Brexit" is a serious possibility there will be a major economic and political crisis, the government will collapse and Corbyn could well be left picking up the pieces.
If the EU negotiators walk away from £40 billion, then very serious questions need to be asked about their fitnesshamstring us as a comptitor in coming decades. In that situation, Govt. could ride the storm with considerable public support.
We'll see. But if it comes to grounded flights, queues at Dover and shortages of essential goods then I very much doubt that any government could ride it out.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
We went through this one a few weeks back. Yes, all UK registered planes, airlines and certified professionals (pilots, maintainance, dispatchers, ATC) come under and are regulated by EASA. If we leave the EU with no deal then it is said that EASA rules lapse automatically, so no planes can land or take off from the UK and no British registered planes can fly nor professionals with British licences will be allowed to work worldwide.
The workaround is for Parliament to legislate the EASA powers back to the UK CAA - as they used to be - and apply for recognition to ICAO, the UN quango that oversees aviation internationally.
A different issue are the Single European Sky and Open Skies agreements, by which EU commercial airlines are allowed to operate in any EU country, and regulate flights between the EU and North America respectively. These come under the trade talks.
(Apologies for all the jargon and abbreviations)
So if we are not stuffed by falling out of EASA we will certainly be stuffed by having nothing to replace the open skies agreement if the trade talks don't come up trumps.
Walsh said US would sign 1 minute after midnight
US carriers are stuffed if they can't fly into London
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
It was always going to be a humiliating experience that would unleash anger. That's the nature of what the UK voted for.
Indeed it is. And there will be a lot more of both before this is over.
Do you really believe that flights are going to grounded? That the EU will somehow cut UK airlines off from EU airspace and cut their own airlines off from UK airspace?
Well that is what people in the industry say. I understand that EASA safety certificates won't be valid for UK registered planes after Brexit and without safety certificates they cannot be insured and so cannot fly. So not all flights will be grounded - just UK registered planes. Maybe there is someone here with knowledge of the detail who can confirm, or not, that this is the position?
We went through this one a few weeks back. Yes, all UK registered planes, airlines and certified professionals (pilots, maintainance, dispatchers, ATC) come under and are regulated by EASA. If we leave the EU with no deal then it is said that EASA rules lapse automatically, so no planes can land or take off from the UK and no British registered planes can fly nor professionals with British licences will be allowed to work worldwide.
The workaround is for Parliament to legislate the EASA powers back to the UK CAA - as they used to be - and apply for recognition to ICAO, the UN quango that oversees aviation internationally.
A different issue are the Single European Sky and Open Skies agreements, by which EU commercial airlines are allowed to operate in any EU country, and regulate flights between the EU and North America respectively. These come under the trade talks.
(Apologies for all the jargon and abbreviations)
So if we are not stuffed by falling out of EASA we will certainly be stuffed by having nothing to replace the open skies agreement if the trade talks don't come up trumps.
What we’d like to be is associate members of EASA, like Switzerland. If that’s not available from the EU then we need to go down the CAA > ICAO route to avoid planes being grounded, which obviously takes time to organise. It’s a great example of needing to make a decision quickly about the scope of a deal or no deal.
The open skies agreement with the US isn’t a problem, they’ve already said they’ll sign an extension of the existing agreement, and that doesn’t need the EU involved.
Domestically the open skies agreement isn’t quite as big of a deal as is being made out in some quarters. It means in practice that British airline EasyJet will need an EU subsidiary to operate non-UK flights inside the EU (eg Paris to Rome), which they’ve set up already. Irish airline Ryanair will vice-versa need a British subsidiary to operate London-Edinburgh flights. It doesn’t affect BA or KLM for example.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Isn't it astonishing that other countries might also be motivated by non-economic considerations?
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
Totally O/t, but there are all sorts of people here. I’m the Secretary of an Older Peoples organisation and I’ve got a memory stick with a lopad of old Microsoft documents on it. I’m told that there’s a danger of these becoming unreadable. “Zat so, and if so is there any means of converting them to (say) pdf in bulk or is it a tedious.one by one job.
Download a program called Libre Office, it’s free any will open just about anything, back to old MS Works files. You can open the files and save them in more modern MS Office formats or as PDFs. Will look up bulk copying and get back to you, but yes it should be possible.
Mr Sandpit, thank you. I can, of course, convert them all to pdf, but it’s a one at a time job, slightly, but only slightly, more interesting that watching paint dry.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Isn't it astonishing that other countries might also be motivated by non-economic considerations?
Not at all, Ive always said Germany will put its own interest first
Varadkars idiocy is letting himself be used to push Germany's agenda, just as things up north are returning to normal
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
It was always going to be a humiliating experience that would unleash anger. That's the nature of what the UK voted for.
Indeed it is. And there will be a lot more of both before this is over.
Yes, it is very troubling.
The EU had absolutely no obligation to offer us anything, it was completely free to demand what it liked - just as we were. But we left them, they didn't leave us, and we did so without any prior plan of what leaving might entail.
I can well believe that many who voted for Brexit are now furious that they are being offered something very different from what they had in mind. Blaming the EU won't help, and is all too predictable.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
It might well be a loser, but they say the same about Brexit.
To me it’s clear the EU side have no intention of getting a mutually beneficial deal. Their playbook is to run down the clock and present a massively one-sided deal at the last minute - with the alternative being a crash-out with planes grounded etc. That’s why the offer now is important, because it gives us time to prepare for no-deal if it becomes obvious that’s where we’re headed.
Yes and No. We rejected our favourable deal with the EU in last year's referendum. Everything else is massively less favourable. But once we accept that, there's a deal to be done. Better than nothing but worse than what we had is a big negotiating space. I am confident that we will end up with something that is a lot better than nothing and a lot worse than what we had before. It is firmly in our interests to agree to that.
Thing is, we are nowhere near accepting Brexit as a downgrade. We will get there eventually but there will be days and days and weeks and months of relentlessly dreary Brexit news to come. Remainers and Leavers are going through their different versions of Kuebler-Ross and are stuck in anger and denial, before moving on to acceptance.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Isn't it astonishing that other countries might also be motivated by non-economic considerations?
Not at all, Ive always said Germany will put its own interest first
Varadkars idiocy is letting himself be used to push Germany's agenda, just as things up north are returning to normal
Yes, he should be putting pressure on the EU side to make sure a deal gets done that doesn’t need a border. Instead he’s doing the EU’s bidding to the UK with knobs on, and is more likely to scupper a chance of a good deal than create one.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
"Give us a good deal, or we'll descend into fascism!"
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
The Irish believe - not without reason - that they have been bullied and humiliated by the British for generations.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
The Irish believe - not without reason - that they have been bullied and humiliated by the British for generations.
It's payback time.
We did loan them rather a lot of money in 2010. Does payback time include that?
I think we should make a simple & generous final offer:
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods. What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
The media phone ins are dominated by voters anger at the EU's demands and TM will receive huge backing for walking away if they continue to prevent trade talks.
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
It was always going to be a humiliating experience that would unleash anger. That's the nature of what the UK voted for.
Indeed it is. And there will be a lot more of both before this is over.
Yes, it is very troubling.
The EU had absolutely no obligation to offer us anything, it was completely free to demand what it liked - just as we were. But we left them, they didn't leave us, and we did so without any prior plan of what leaving might entail.
I can well believe that many who voted for Brexit are now furious that they are being offered something very different from what they had in mind. Blaming the EU won't help, and is all too predictable.
Blaming the EU will not help remainers wish to stay and will propel us out on WTO terms with the backing of the electorate who neither understand or care about the economics
If this happens it will be brutal in the EU for allowing it to happen and Barnier hope of succeeding Junckers will be over
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
He's got a union and he's gonna use it.
Unless there is a good agreement, I wonder how much logistical use the EU is to the Republic? There may be many practicalities that no longer create advantage. That wasn't anyone's intention, in fact probably quite the opposite, but that's why I originally went for an EEA solution because the customs issue is less is not the absolute breaker that people are making out.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
The Irish believe - not without reason - that they have been bullied and humiliated by the British for generations.
It's payback time.
they've been bullied and humiliated by the Germans in 2008
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
"Give us a good deal, or we'll descend into fascism!"
you may have missed how european voting trends are going
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
"Give us a good deal, or we'll descend into fascism!"
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Isn't it astonishing that other countries might also be motivated by non-economic considerations?
Not at all, Ive always said Germany will put its own interest first
Varadkars idiocy is letting himself be used to push Germany's agenda, just as things up north are returning to normal
Yes, he should be putting pressure on the EU side to make sure a deal gets done that doesn’t need a border. Instead he’s doing the EU’s bidding to the UK with knobs on, and is more likely to scupper a chance of a good deal than create one.
volunteering to be a pawn in someone elses game is just plain daft
Blaming the EU will not help remainers wish to stay and will propel us out on WTO terms with the backing of the electorate who neither understand or care about the economics
Telling voters "it's not the economy, stupid" as you threaten their livelihoods isn't a good pitch to the electorate.
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Like us, Ireland are putting politics ahead of economics.
theyre on a loser with that one
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
It might well be a loser, but they say the same about Brexit.
They’ve concluded Brexit is the biggest loser.
well if it is, then theyre top of the casualty list
Just been looking at some voter data for Germany, I think the Union will lose 5 points and AfD will gain 3 points and FDP 2 points. I also think the SPD will lose 2 points and the Greens will gain 2 points.
My final scores look like this:
CDU/CSU 28 SPD 18.5 AfD 15.5 FDP 13 Left 10 Green 10
That's going to make any coalition very, very tough to form, we might even be looking at the Union+Green+Left to make the numbers work. AfD has made Germany ungovernable IMO, at least with Merkel in charge.
Blaming the EU will not help remainers wish to stay and will propel us out on WTO terms with the backing of the electorate who neither understand or care about the economics
Telling voters "it's not the economy, stupid" as you threaten their livelihoods isn't a good pitch to the electorate.
They aren't, the government are offering large payments to the EU for a FTA while also ending free movement and leaving the single market
Guarantee us no hard border, or we'll give you a hard border.
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
Not really. Ireland are doing a credible impression of a government that has decided that no deal is for them better than a bad deal, the logic of which was set out in this piece:
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
fecking mad
Varadkar has lost the plot
Isn't it astonishing that other countries might also be motivated by non-economic considerations?
Not at all, Ive always said Germany will put its own interest first
Varadkars idiocy is letting himself be used to push Germany's agenda, just as things up north are returning to normal
Yes, he should be putting pressure on the EU side to make sure a deal gets done that doesn’t need a border. Instead he’s doing the EU’s bidding to the UK with knobs on, and is more likely to scupper a chance of a good deal than create one.
Ultimately, the Northern Ireland issue will be settled in Northern Ireland. The border is a HUGE problem. The UK government was lulled into complacency by their suggestion that as it's a tricky problem with no obvious solutions, they would just waffle a bit and move on. Basically Brexit is forcing the issue of what Northern Ireland wants to become. I wouldn't assume it's a return to hard borders and Unionists in Stormont ruling the roost, with possible subsequent violence. It is just as likely, and I would suggest a more positive outcome, if a majority of Northern Irish decide their destiny is in sharing their island with their southern neighbours and will look for a de facto integration - without necessarily replacing the Union flag with the Tricolour on Belfast City Hall.
Just been looking at some voter data for Germany, I think the Union will lose 5 points and AfD will gain 3 points and FDP 2 points. I also think the SPD will lose 2 points and the Greens will gain 2 points.
My final scores look like this:
CDU/CSU 28 SPD 18.5 AfD 15.5 FDP 13 Left 10 Green 10
That's going to make any coalition very, very tough to form, we might even be looking at the Union+Green+Left to make the numbers work. AfD has made Germany ungovernable IMO, at least with Merkel in charge.
My understanding is that Die Linke (Left) are out and out communists, Corbyn would seem like a dangerous moderate - and that they are persona non grata to the mainstream parties as much as AfD on the right.
As you say, such a polarised landscape will make a viable coalition very difficult. However if it's what the people have voted for then so be it - if there is no-one who has the confidence to get even 30% of the vote then it's quite right there should be major compromises in government.
Comments
https://twitter.com/JeanneBartram/status/931940574529249280
This seems to firm up the probability that TM will deliver a take it or leave it offer in December
Then present it and say to the EU - your call. £40 bn - or no pounds, no pennies and WTO. You tell us which you want. If it is no money, then we will of course spend the next year sitting down with the EU - or your members, one on one - making sure that the planes can still fly etc. But our business needs to have time to plan for whichever outcome, and frankly, your tactic of a last minute, very expensive and one-sided deal ain't going to work for us.
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/932932244670476288
We obviously won't get a deal as good as the one we had but it is not to their advantage to 'punish' us.
Which side would an unbiased person think is behaving childishly at the moment?
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bulkconvertulo/
I can’t vouch for it, and don’t have a laptop to hand to try it, but no harm in giving it a go as long as you have backups.
There’s also a document converter wizard in LO, but not sure what formats it works in.
PS the issue is only trade not migration. For migration there's is already a border between A and D but not B and C. Common Travel Area as opposed to Schengen.
https://twitter.com/Econs4FreeTrade/status/932924703966220288
Those halcyon days when the terms of departure were going to be agreed in an afternoon over a cup of Earl Grey and a chocolate hobnob are far behind us.
Essentially the CAA performs all the functions of the EASA in the UK under delegated authority (and performed them all on its own prior to the EASA being founded).
There is a paperwork exercise that needs to be completed but if the EU refused to allow the CAA to steps up to being a member of Open Skies then that would be an active decision by the EU to be hostile. The US had made clear they will immediately sign Open Skies agreement with the UK on current terms
bootruby slipper into those who voted Leave. After all, you have assured us for many months that they are brutish, knuckle-dragging vicious neanderthals....#AnotherBrexitBloodbath
https://twitter.com/Alain_Tolhurst/status/932937728467103744
The workaround is for Parliament to legislate the EASA powers back to the UK CAA - as they used to be - and apply for recognition to ICAO, the UN quango that oversees aviation internationally.
A different issue are the Single European Sky and Open Skies agreements, by which EU commercial airlines are allowed to operate in any EU country, and regulate flights between the EU and North America respectively. These come under the trade talks.
(Apologies for all the jargon and abbreviations)
Gove on the ball here
Plus Gove does have form for this.
Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is facing a fresh row over his treatment of independent Whitehall directors after demanding that board members commit several days each week to their non-executive roles.
Sky News has learnt that Steve Holliday, the former National Grid chief executive who is one of Britain's leading businessmen, has decided to step down as the lead non-executive director of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) after Mr Gove issued his demands.
It is the latest such clash involving Mr Gove, who as Secretary of State for Education and then Justice was accused of packing the departments' boards with close associates who were subsequently handed peerages or knighthoods.
https://news.sky.com/story/gove-faces-criticism-as-defra-board-members-quit-over-demands-11136908
We've already had a reckoning - for those who tried to sell us the pup of "renegotiation".
£50 Billion and no tarriffs, duty or quotas on EU goods.
What the EU wishes to do on their side is entirely up to them.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/banking-and-finance/banking-union/european-deposit-insurance-scheme_en
CTA and no Schengen means there is a border between Eire&NI and the rest of the EU.
A customs border can be managed with pre notification, self decleration, trusted traveller and papers of origin.
I suppose you could say that " We will pledge £50Bn so long as we enter framework negotiations into a trade deal which passes the WTO standard for FTAs, and also includes access to financial markets".
If not, then we will pay only that which is legally liable (2 years membership to end of 2021).
1) Norn Iron / Republic of Ireland
2) Gibraltar / Spain
3) Cypriot bases / Cyprus
/pedant
Ireland is playing a dangerous game and quite frankly I would tell them that there will be no border but if they want one well that is up to them and the EU and they must do whatever they want on their side of the border
I think remainers need to be aware that there is impending fury coming down the road directed at the EU and an ever increasing support that we cannot leave soon enough
That's a bit like the threat made by the black sheriff in Blazing Saddles.
the "insider" report I read this morning said Merkel was all over the greens and trying to meet their aspirations while in effect ignoring the FDP.
The FDP thought whats the point and walked out
The contentious issues were
Limits to immigration
Environmental targets and their impact on industry
Tax cuts
1 day a week (4 days a month) is the normal requirement
"Man demands sex and threatens to cut off his cock if he doesn't get it."
http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2017/09/24/is-no-deal-better-than-a-bad-deal-irish-edition/
My suspicion is that they are bluffing, but it's credible enough. Brexit is disastrous enough for Ireland that an unmitigated version might not be viewed as the worst.
US carriers are stuffed if they can't fly into London
Varadkar has lost the plot
The open skies agreement with the US isn’t a problem, they’ve already said they’ll sign an extension of the existing agreement, and that doesn’t need the EU involved.
Domestically the open skies agreement isn’t quite as big of a deal as is being made out in some quarters. It means in practice that British airline EasyJet will need an EU subsidiary to operate non-UK flights inside the EU (eg Paris to Rome), which they’ve set up already. Irish airline Ryanair will vice-versa need a British subsidiary to operate London-Edinburgh flights. It doesn’t affect BA or KLM for example.
I sympathise having done it one by one before myself!
Most British voters voted Leave, it is diehard Remainers who would be seen as collaborators with the EU
Varadkars idiocy is letting himself be used to push Germany's agenda, just as things up north are returning to normal
The EU had absolutely no obligation to offer us anything, it was completely free to demand what it liked - just as we were. But we left them, they didn't leave us, and we did so without any prior plan of what leaving might entail.
I can well believe that many who voted for Brexit are now furious that they are being offered something very different from what they had in mind. Blaming the EU won't help, and is all too predictable.
it's like the Versailles treaty when all the small countries were encouraged by the French to start pushing the big ones around
twenty years later that didn't look so good
They’ve concluded Brexit is the biggest loser.
Thing is, we are nowhere near accepting Brexit as a downgrade. We will get there eventually but there will be days and days and weeks and months of relentlessly dreary Brexit news to come. Remainers and Leavers are going through their different versions of Kuebler-Ross and are stuck in anger and denial, before moving on to acceptance.
It's payback time.
If this happens it will be brutal in the EU for allowing it to happen and Barnier hope of succeeding Junckers will be over
when's payback due ?
Boris Johnson’s endorsement adds to Kenya election controversy.
UK foreign secretary is first international official to congratulate Kenyatta on his re-election
https://www.ft.com/content/89bf6606-ce83-11e7-b781-794ce08b24dc
- They think the referendum was the final word
- They think our democratic choices can impose obligations on other countries
It isn't, and they can't.
My final scores look like this:
CDU/CSU 28
SPD 18.5
AfD 15.5
FDP 13
Left 10
Green 10
That's going to make any coalition very, very tough to form, we might even be looking at the Union+Green+Left to make the numbers work. AfD has made Germany ungovernable IMO, at least with Merkel in charge.
As you say, such a polarised landscape will make a viable coalition very difficult. However if it's what the people have voted for then so be it - if there is no-one who has the confidence to get even 30% of the vote then it's quite right there should be major compromises in government.