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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Review : November 17th 2017

Kirkley on Waveney (Lab defence) Result: Con 217 (28% +7% on last time), Lab 374 (48% +12% on last time), Lib Dem 84 (11% no candidate last time), UKIP 78 (10% -10% on last time), Green 30 (4% -5% on last time) (No Independent candidate this time -15%) Labour HOLD with a majority of 157 (20%) on a swing of 2.5% from Con to Lab

Read the full story here

JosiasJessop

Thirst.

Conservatives not doing as badly as might be feared...

FrancisUrquhart

Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

Sigh....

kyf_100

FrancisUrquhart said:

Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

Sigh....

Can people sold a pup ask for their money back? I would.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

williamglenn

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

So... Apple or Android?

daodao

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

kyf_100

williamglenn said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

So... Apple or Android?

Still disappointed Google's Nexus 6 didn't look anything like Sean Young...

FrancisUrquhart

williamglenn said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

So... Apple or Android?

I was more thinking...Radiohead the most overrated live act....yea or nay.

Sean_F

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Wrong way around.

MTimT

Excellent piece by Jonathan Turley in The Hill on the Franken and Moore cases, and the very limited powers of Congress to handle them appropriately. I particularly liked this line:

"a congressional ethics investigation ... is the equivalent to volunteering to be chased by a wild pack of golden retriever puppies. They are likely to catch you but hardly likely to devour you."

His views on Moore's right to serve should he be elected are also interesting.

http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/360922-roy-moore-and-al-franken-are-why-congress-needs-new-ethics-rules

OldKingCole

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Could be a disaster for the EMA, and consequently for public health across the EU. And Britain.
None (or almost none) of the staff want to go there.

It’s the old story isn’t it. Disaster; never mind, we’ve got blue passports!

RobD

williamglenn said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

So... Apple or Android?

Pineapple or no pineapple?

RobD

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Surely the border hinges on what trade deal is made? It’s absurd to think they are utterly separate matters.

daodao

Sean_F said:

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Wrong way around.

I don't understand your comment.

Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.

partypoliticalorphan

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

I saw the planned home for the EMA in Milan last week when I was there. Just around the corner from the Duomo. I suspect the EMA staff won't be so pleased if Bratislava gets the nod in the carve up.

RobD

daodao said:

Sean_F said:

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Wrong way around.

I don't understand your comment.

Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.

Clarity will come when we find out what the future trading relationship will be.

kle4

Whaplode and Holbeach St. John’s the clear winner in that list, though honourable mentions for Staining and Weeton and Red Hall and Lingfield

Pulpstar

DVLA Thursday, ESA Friday.
What screw up will Saturday bring ?

Big_G_NorthWales

daodao said:

Sean_F said:

daodao said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/931613130882469888

Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.

Wrong way around.

I don't understand your comment.

Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.

The DUP on Sky this evening rejected the Irish PM's ascertions and will not agree to staying in the single market or customs union. Also they accused the EU of using Ireland

As I have said the universal media broadside tonight on how we have to bow to the EU demands will harden the Brexit vote in favour and no matter the consequences.

The EU and those in the UK working with them need to realise the Country will reject their lack of negotiation as we rapidly head to the majority in the UK backing a hard Brexit no matter the mutual chaos caused

FF43

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

RobD

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

FrancisUrquhart

Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

Richard_Tyndall

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

Richard_Tyndall

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

daodao

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).

tlg86

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

Agreed. I doubt, however, that Republic would want them.

Philip_Thompson

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

You've misread that 4% in 2013 poll. That is NOT what it says.

Richard_Tyndall

daodao said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).

As I said both countries should just say no.

RobD

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

You've misread that 4% in 2013 poll. That is NOT what it says.

Oh dear....

FF43

RobD said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.

Big_G_NorthWales

Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

Big_G_NorthWales

Richard_Tyndall said:

daodao said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).

As I said both countries should just say no.

The DUP rejected the idiotic idea of the Irish sea border comprehensively tonight on Sky news

RobD

FF43 said:

RobD said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.

A couple of points higher than 2006, so not all that unusual.

Casino_Royale

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

williamglenn

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

Casino_Royale

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

I wonder how EIRE will enjoy the EU dictating its corporation tax rates once Brexit is over.

RoyalBlue

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. We are not 'taking' them out; the country of which they are part has decided to leave. I know you are hoping that the union breaks just to be proved right, but it's not going to happen.

daodao

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

Exactly.

Casino_Royale

FF43 said:

RobD said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.

I don't think polling on Irish reunification is informative until after Brexit has taken place.

Right now, i suspect a subset of it is a proxy for that fight.

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland

viewcode

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

So... Apple or Android?

Pineapple or no pineapple?

Star Trek: Discovery versus The Orville...

Big_G_NorthWales

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

williamglenn

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland

Until Arlene Foster says something I would ignore the "my dad's bigger than your dad" style interventions from their MPs.

viewcode

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

daodao said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).

As I said both countries should just say no.

The DUP rejected the idiotic idea of the Irish sea border comprehensively tonight on Sky news

Good. Let us hope this bloody stupid stupid stupid GB/NI hard border idea dies like a shithouse rat. In great pain. On acid. Twice.

I may not have expressed that intensely enough.

Philip_Thompson

FPT:

SouthamObserver said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Sean_F said:

This is all a catch 22. We can't work out a solution to the Irish Border question, until we know what our trading relationship with the EU will be.

The options don't depend on the precise detail but on the broad category of relationship we want. In the single market and customs union, there no border problem either between Ireland and NI, or NI and GB.

Except that the single market and customs union have already been ruled out.

In the single market and customs union but out of the EU is the worst of all worlds, we would have no right to do trade deals, or change domestic rules to suit us and would be required to adopt all EU laws without any say in writing them. Why would anyone in their sane mind want that?

So, time to come up with a practical proposal for how the Irish border would work under the trade deal that we want. Of course, the problem is that the government does not know what trade deal it wants.

It'd be very presumptive for us at this stage to say "this will be our trade deal, therefore this is the Irish solution". The EU might just have a thing or two to say about what they will or will not give us as part of the trade deal therefore we need to negotiate the trade deal with the EU.

viewcode

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

Perhaps if the UK government were willing to put such a concept in writing...?

AndyJS

FrancisUrquhart said:

Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

Sigh....

Ridiculous.

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland

Until Arlene Foster says something I would ignore the "my dad's bigger than your dad" style interventions from their MPs.

I really worry for your sanity - you are an obsessive oblivious to anything that may disturb your vision of the perfect and wonderful EU that everyone has to worship with deference and respect

Philip_Thompson

daodao said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.

I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).

What country is this "GB" of which you speak? There is no WTO nation called GB, there is one called the United Kingdom (UK) and any trade deal we sign will be ratified at the WTO between the EU and UK.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/united_kingdom_e.htm

viewcode

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Richard_Tyndall

viewcode said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

Perhaps if the UK government were willing to put such a concept in writing...?

It would be good if they would. Remember I agree with the Remainers and most of the Leavers as well in my scorn for how badly the Government appears to have handled Brexit so far and have no faith at all that they will make the right decisions on anything.

dixiedean

FrancisUrquhart said:

Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

He has?
Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...

Richard_Tyndall

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.

This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.

Nope. Your previous EU will be the only entity trying to reignite the Troubles by insisting on a hard border when every signatory to the Good Friday Agreement is saying they do not want it and will not enforce it.

daodao

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

What offer? The Maybot and the 3 Brexiteer ministers appear to be at sixes and sevens and can't even be consistent with themselves, yet alone with one another. By contrast, senior EU officials and key EU27 national leaders are singing from the same hymn sheet. The UK has a nightmare government at present, in office but not in power.

Big_G_NorthWales

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Tykejohnno

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

He has?
Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...

Or even Everton ;-)

Big_G_NorthWales

daodao said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

What offer? The Maybot and the 3 Brexiteer ministers appear to be at sixes and sevens and can't even be consistent with themselves, yet alone with one another. By contrast, senior EU officials and key EU27 national leaders are singing from the same hymn sheet. The UK has a nightmare government at present, in office but not in power.

Not on recent evidence - poor showing by labour last night even losing a seat to the conservatives

Sean_F

FF43 said:

RobD said:

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion

It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.

Currently, depending how the question is asked, 19-33% wish to join the Irish Republic, 55-64% wish to remain in the UK.

daodao

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

williamglenn

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening.

DExEU's 'track and trace' idea was listened to by industry with incredulity, before being dismissed by Davis as merely 'blue-sky thinking'.

Big_G_NorthWales

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

Well if you are excluding internet access from your argument you must be a real dinosaur

And assume the vehicles will grind to a halt on these bridges if they are unable to access the internet

RobD

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

I wonder how many businesses that import/export to/from the UK don't have access to the internet?

viewcode

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.

Tykejohnno

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening.

DExEU's 'track and trace' idea was listened to by industry with incredulity, before being dismissed by Davis as merely 'blue-sky thinking'.

Most of your posts are liistened to in 'incredulity'

dixiedean

Tykejohnno said:

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

He has?
Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...

Or even Everton ;-)

Touche. However, our problems pale into insignificance compared to the shambles at SAFC.

Ishmael_Z

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

The sort of claim you don't even have to google to know it is wrong.

And if you do google,

"You can pay
• online at www.merseyflow.co.uk (24 hours a day, 7 days a week)
• by phone on 01928 878 878 (available 8am-8pm Monday-Friday and 9am-6pm Saturday,
Sunday and bank holidays)
• at merseyflow’s walk-in centre at Howard Court, Manor Park, Runcorn, WA7 1SJ between
8am-8pm Monday-Friday and 9am-6pm Saturday, Sunday and bank holidays
• at one of 10,000 Payzone outlets across the UK"

Benpointer

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.

Big_G_NorthWales

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.

I agree with you

Big_G_NorthWales

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.

I agree with you

Though a transistion deal will help

tlg86

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

RobD

Fact-checkers out in force today, I see

Big_G_NorthWales

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.

Probably - though I am no expert on the subject

Philip_Thompson

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.

Big_G_NorthWales

Philip_Thompson said:

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.

Yes I needed one to visit my son and his wife in Vancouver earlier this year and I did it on line at home in seconds

Ishmael_Z

tlg86 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

It would if he was reading geology. Does Europe predate Gondwana? Pangaia? Protolaurasia?

Philip_Thompson

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Philip_Thompson said:

daodao said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

viewcode said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

One hopes that the rot has stopped.

PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way

Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help...

Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily

Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.

Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.

Yes I needed one to visit my son and his wife in Vancouver earlier this year and I did it on line at home in seconds

Indeed its not difficult to do just like most eForms that are becoming universal for government business including national frontiers now. daodao is acting like we're still painting on caves rather than in the 21st century.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

Benpointer

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.

Probably - though I am no expert on the subject

Well it's quite a few years since I was flying but IIRC outside controlled airspace Visual Flight Rules apply - it's down to the pilots not Air Traffic Control. Someone with up to date knowledge will correct me if I am wrong.

RobD

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

AndyJS

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

prh47bridge

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I wish them good luck with that one. The rebate is deducted at source, before we send the money to the EU.

MarkHopkins

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

Anyway... "Telegraph".

viewcode

Ishmael_Z said:

tlg86 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

It would if he was reading geology. Does Europe predate Gondwana? Pangaia? Protolaurasia?

If I was asked, and without googling, I'd say Australia. It's not as geologically active as the others and it has no great mountains nor (currently) active volcanos. That speaks to senescence not adolescence.

HYUFD

tlg86 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

Since when was the EU equivalent to the continent of Europe?

Though much of what he says is quite sensible '“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism anymore because they’re fucking ‘right on’.
“Personally, I don’t think we should have left the [European] Union because I feel right at the time of it happening, we turned our back on the French, who were going through some dark terror shit.
“But it’s happened now. It was a legal vote. Fucking get it done and let’s move on.”

Liam Gallagher also had plenty of common sense on Brexit too 'I love Europe. I guess the borders have got to be tightened but all that stuff about going ‘this is my country’, I don’t get that. 
“We all live under one sky. I certainly don’t sit there and go ‘this is my f***in’ England, stay out’, but I think we should definitely keep an eye on who’s coming in and out of the country”.
“That just makes common sense because you don’t want a load of loony c*** coming in. But good people should be allowed to move and groove wherever they want

Sean_F

AndyJS said:

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

Philip_Thompson

MarkHopkins said:

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

Anyway... "Telegraph".

Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.

Tykejohnno

HYUFD said:

tlg86 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

Since when was the EU equivalent to the continent of Europe?

Though much of what he says is quite sensible '“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism anymore because they’re fucking ‘right on’.
“Personally, I don’t think we should have left the [European] Union because I feel right at the time of it happening, we turned our back on the French, who were going through some dark terror shit.
“But it’s happened now. It was a legal vote. Fucking get it done and let’s move on.”

Liam Gallagher also had plenty of common sense on Brexit too 'I love Europe. I guess the borders have got to be tightened but all that stuff about going ‘this is my country’, I don’t get that. 
“We all live under one sky. I certainly don’t sit there and go ‘this is my f***in’ England, stay out’, but I think we should definitely keep an eye on who’s coming in and out of the country”.
“That just makes common sense because you don’t want a load of loony c*** coming in. But good people should be allowed to move and groove wherever they want

Thought you like it - lol

MarkHopkins

Sean_F said:

AndyJS said:

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

It's about power and control. If the left can say you are bad for doing X, and get support for it (either from the mob or your acquiescence), then they can control part of your life.

FrancisUrquhart

Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!

Big_G_NorthWales

Philip_Thompson said:

MarkHopkins said:

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

Anyway... "Telegraph".

Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.

They need to be given a take it or leave it offer and then we move on to adjust as necessary,.

This cannot go on

And I cancelled my Telegraph sub following that absurd front page

HYUFD

FF43 said:

Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

55% of Northern Irish want to remain in the UK on those figures, 34% to leave.

Over 45s back staying in the UK by a comfortable majority of 60% to 29% with 10% undecided, under 45s are split almost evenly 44% to remain in the UK, 46% to join the Republic of Ireland and 9% undecided, so I don't think you got your figures quite right there.
http://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTOct17TrackerPoll-GeneralReport.pdf

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

AndyJS said:

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

I think some of them are just looking for a hook onto which they can parade their anti-racism.

Casino_Royale

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

I am rapidly approaching the "go f*ck yourselves, then" stage.

Benpointer

FrancisUrquhart said:

Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!

Not had any issues at all with it myself - seemed as seemless as every other IOS update to me.

Casino_Royale

tlg86 said:

Tykejohnno said:

Noel Gallagher speaks to the ardent remainers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/noel-gallagher-brexit-remainers-get-over-liam-oasis-a8058766.html

“I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.”

That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!

Good job for Noel that wasn't on the ballot paper, then.

Charles

Philip_Thompson said:

MarkHopkins said:

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

Anyway... "Telegraph".

Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.

So presumably they are crediting us 36bn not 20bn for the next 2 years contributions?

Or does it only work when it is in the EU's favour?

Big_G_NorthWales

Casino_Royale said:

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/931641169997639681

I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

I am rapidly approaching the "go f*ck yourselves, then" stage.

I have been saying that all night and expect so is the Country

Casino_Royale

MarkHopkins said:

Sean_F said:

AndyJS said:

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

It's about power and control. If the left can say you are bad for doing X, and get support for it (either from the mob or your acquiescence), then they can control part of your life.

Some on the Left go further: your rights and life are forfeit if you're a Tory.

FrancisUrquhart

Benpointer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!

Not had any issues at all with it myself - seemed as seemless as every other IOS update to me.

The problems have been widely reported and hence why pretty much weekly updates since ios 11 was released.