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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Telegraph front page that has been making the political we

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Telegraph front page that has been making the political weather all day

So the Daily Mail is now calling round our constituencies & local parties asking how we represent our constituents – of course not interested when response is supportive & entirely missing the point that we were all elected or re-elected just 5 months ago #AntiBullyingWeek pic.twitter.com/dOtxsHDHJ0

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  • Options
    There is an amusing irony in seeing those who were serial rebels or "bastards" now demanding loyalty and party discipline. While those who formerly took the party line are now the rebels.

    Kind of like what has happened with Labour. Discipline only matters to many people when it is going the way you want it to apparently.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Second.
  • Options
    tim80tim80 Posts: 99
    Some have spent 18 months insinuating that 'Brexiteers' are thick, racist, etc., so forgive my lack of sympathy for crocodile tears over a couple of newspaper front pages.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Irregular verbs time again

    I am a principled individual
    You are defying the will of the people
    We are standing up for our beliefs
    They are bullies
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
  • Options
    daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    edited November 2017
    Labelling MPs as "Brexit mutineers" is much less inflammatory than referring to them as "saboteurs" (as the Mayfly did), who should be "crushed" (in the DM's opinion).
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
  • Options
    Tim80: As a "remoaner" I've never subscribed to the view that all brexiteers are thick and racist, ...but only some of them. Moreover probably enough to sway the original vote. If brexiteers are getting twitchy about this view, then that's their own fault. They needed to be aware of "fellow travellers" on their journey. I am annoyed about brexiteers assumption that anyone who raises worries or warnings are immediately branded as traitors.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    There is an amusing irony in seeing those who were serial rebels or "bastards" now demanding loyalty and party discipline. While those who formerly took the party line are now the rebels.

    Kind of like what has happened with Labour. Discipline only matters to many people when it is going the way you want it to apparently.

    Absolutely. Soubry is not to everyones taste, nor Wollaston, but they are Tories to all but those who follow the "No true Tory wants a soft Brexit" shibboleth.
  • Options
    It was a silly proposal anyway - completely pointless, and the Torygraph of old would have rightly railed against such a governmental abuse of statute. I can only assume there's a bit of panic here, with the Leave movement creating 'Reds under the beds' to distract from its own misgivings.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    And me and stopped my subscription. Whichever way you look at it it is counter productive and divisive.

    I may not agree with Anna but she has a right to her opinion, though I would not expect her to see the government fall, not least as she is in a marginal leave voting seat
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    The Telegraph now reminds me of the Daily Express when I was young; sadly it was our family paper.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    I think it's a shoddy front page.

    But, going back to my theme of people having it much worse in the recent past, Conservative and Unionist politicians were getting a much rougher time in the 70's 80's and 90's and getting less sympathy.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    There is an amusing irony in seeing those who were serial rebels or "bastards" now demanding loyalty and party discipline. While those who formerly took the party line are now the rebels.

    Kind of like what has happened with Labour. Discipline only matters to many people when it is going the way you want it to apparently.

    Absolutely. Soubry is not to everyones taste, nor Wollaston, but they are Tories to all but those who follow the "No true Tory wants a soft Brexit" shibboleth.
    I have very little time for Wollaston I'm afraid. Not for one moment was she ever in favour of Leave. Our own Richard Tyndall firmly criticised the use of the £350m figure but that wouldn't mean he decided "actually, I think we should stay."
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    FPT:
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I don't think that follows, because if you zoom in on the top decile it is itself a spectrum. 74 drinks a week looks a lot but its less than 2 bottles of wine a day, and there are a lot of people by whose standards that is almost teetotal. So there are people in the decile drinking less than 74 drinks a week, and the most price-sensitive of that subset are highly likely to be susceptible to pricing pressure to the extent of moderating (even if only slightly) their intake.

    The problem with this is the people most likely to be price sensitive are the people who can take it or leave it, the people who aren't problem drinkers in the first place.

    One can assume two different demand-vs-price graphs for problem vs non problem drinkers, the first being highly elastic while the second being highly inelastic.

    In other words the only people this stupid nannying law will have any impact on are poor people who like a drink now and again but can take it leave it, who will be deprived an occasional pleasure. The seriously addicted will do what addicts always do - find a way to pay for their addiction. And the rich will carry on regardless. So what is the point of this law?
    I am not an advocate of the law, as I suspect price elasticity for alcoholics is limited.

    Its effects will probably be at the margin, on those shifting into problem behavior.

    Perhaps the most interesting effect will be if brewers and vinters return to the strengths sold decades ago, with beer and cider at 3-4% and wine around 9- 10%, compared to currently being about 50% stronger than that.

    A beer or a bottle of wine could remain an affordable pleasure if it was weaker.
    A very good point. I'm quite fond of Sam Smiths pubs because you can get a pint of Alpine Lager (2.8%) and drink four or five and have a good night out with your friends and not get blotto. Because of the low alcohol content there is also less tax on it so it is very cheap (around £2 a pint the last time I went in). I wish more pubs did the same.

    When did Smiths do that?! It used to be 4ish at the Theee Goats Head in Ox!
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuardianHeather: Brexit rebel Dominic Grieve to be reappointed to Intelligence and Security Committee despite being thorn in the government’s side.
  • Options
    FPT:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yep.

    A growing minority of young people are losing faith in capitalism altogether, which makes sense when you consider that most of them are being directly rinsed by a capitalist on a monthly basis. Combine that with stagnating wages, increasingly insecure employment terms and the looming threat of climate apocalypse, and can you blame anyone for wanting large-scale change?
    I don't want to be rude, but most people growing up from about 1950 to about 1990 had things rougher.
    A big problem with the rise of social media, it has the totally skewed expectations and what is perceived as the “norm”.
    Yes, having secure employment and wanting affordable rents and housing is a prosperous and unreasonable demand. Damn those millennials....if they didn’t have social media they would be totes fine with insecure employment, rising rents and the difficulty of buying a property.

    The data seems to suggest that millennials today are in a much worse position than previous generations at the same stage, far from previous generations ‘having it worse.’

    https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/916309501615267840

    Attitudes like this by older generations is why this is happening:

    https://twitter.com/jameskanag/status/877862748549398528
  • Options
    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    tlg86 said:

    There is an amusing irony in seeing those who were serial rebels or "bastards" now demanding loyalty and party discipline. While those who formerly took the party line are now the rebels.

    Kind of like what has happened with Labour. Discipline only matters to many people when it is going the way you want it to apparently.

    Absolutely. Soubry is not to everyones taste, nor Wollaston, but they are Tories to all but those who follow the "No true Tory wants a soft Brexit" shibboleth.
    I have very little time for Wollaston I'm afraid. Not for one moment was she ever in favour of Leave. Our own Richard Tyndall firmly criticised the use of the £350m figure but that wouldn't mean he decided "actually, I think we should stay."
    Imagine what the Tory party would look like without the likes of Wollaston, Allen, Clarke and co. enabling them to look at least half way human?
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Tim80: As a "remoaner" I've never subscribed to the view that all brexiteers are thick and racist, ...but only some of them. Moreover probably enough to sway the original vote. If brexiteers are getting twitchy about this view, then that's their own fault. They needed to be aware of "fellow travellers" on their journey. I am annoyed about brexiteers assumption that anyone who raises worries or warnings are immediately branded as traitors.

    A cack-handed attempt to smear by association. Why on earth are people to be held liable for the views of other people who vote the same way as they do?
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    There is an amusing irony in seeing those who were serial rebels or "bastards" now demanding loyalty and party discipline. While those who formerly took the party line are now the rebels.

    Kind of like what has happened with Labour. Discipline only matters to many people when it is going the way you want it to apparently.

    Absolutely. Soubry is not to everyones taste, nor Wollaston, but they are Tories to all but those who follow the "No true Tory wants a soft Brexit" shibboleth.
    The 15 are pre-Thatcher Tories ('wets').

    A few more Tories within the govt privately hold such views, I suspect, e.g. Stewart. They are muzzled by collective responsibility.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    The Telegraph now reminds me of the Daily Express when I was young; sadly it was our family paper.

    Ours too, along with, unexpectedly, the Daily Mirror. My grandmother was a conservative of the antediluvian kind, but she loved the Mirror's general knowledge crossword.

    Giles' cartoons were the Express' saving grace for me.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    edited November 2017
    Closest EU Bill vote so far (earlier, just before 7pm) was:

    299 to 311, Govt Majority 12

    Reason closer than yesterday was no Lab MPs voted with Govt.

    Wouldn't necessarily imply Lab leavers won't vote with Govt on future votes - this vote was on environmental and employment rights etc.

    Govt had:

    Con - 302 (inc whip withdrawn)
    DUP - 9

    Con max = 318 - 2 Speakers - 2 tellers = 314. So on face of it 12 Con MPs didn't back Govt - of which one (Clarke) voted with Lab.

    However I suspect there is another twist. David Hanson (Lab) was chairing the Committee and did not vote. He is generally very loyal so presumably didn't vote as Chairman. Also note that David Amess who was Chairing yesterday didn't vote (in this Division). Suggests Chairmen don't vote (whether or not actually in the Chair) - not sure how many there are.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Tim80: As a "remoaner" I've never subscribed to the view that all brexiteers are thick and racist, ...but only some of them. Moreover probably enough to sway the original vote. If brexiteers are getting twitchy about this view, then that's their own fault. They needed to be aware of "fellow travellers" on their journey. I am annoyed about brexiteers assumption that anyone who raises worries or warnings are immediately branded as traitors.

    A cack-handed attempt to smear by association. Why on earth are people to be held liable for the views of other people who vote the same way as they do?
    Sauce for the goose. PB Tories make accusations of guilt by association too when people suggest voting Labour.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I don't think that follows, because if you zoom in on the top decile it is itself a spectrum. 74 drinks a week looks a lot but its less than 2 bottles of wine a day, and there are a lot of people by whose standards that is almost teetotal. So there are people in the decile drinking less than 74 drinks a week, and the most price-sensitive of that subset are highly likely to be susceptible to pricing pressure to the extent of moderating (even if only slightly) their intake.

    The problem with this is the people most likely to be price sensitive are the people who can take it or leave it, the people who aren't problem drinkers in the first place.

    One can assume two different demand-vs-price graphs for problem vs non problem drinkers, the first being highly elastic while the second being highly inelastic.

    In other words the only people this stupid nannying law will have any impact on are poor people who like a drink now and again but can take it leave it, who will be deprived an occasional pleasure. The seriously addicted will do what addicts always do - find a way to pay for their addiction. And the rich will carry on regardless. So what is the point of this law?
    I am not an advocate of the law, as I suspect price elasticity for alcoholics is limited.

    Its effects will probably be at the margin, on those shifting into problem behavior.

    Perhaps the most interesting effect will be if brewers and vinters return to the strengths sold decades ago, with beer and cider at 3-4% and wine around 9- 10%, compared to currently being about 50% stronger than that.

    A beer or a bottle of wine could remain an affordable pleasure if it was weaker.
    A very good point. I'm quite fond of Sam Smiths pubs because you can get a pint of Alpine Lager (2.8%) and drink four or five and have a good night out with your friends and not get blotto. Because of the low alcohol content there is also less tax on it so it is very cheap (around £2 a pint the last time I went in). I wish more pubs did the same.

    When did Smiths do that?! It used to be 4ish at the Theee Goats Head in Ox!
    It's lager though. Can't be seen drinking that in UK; only fit for very hot weather.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @GuardianHeather: Brexit rebel Dominic Grieve to be reappointed to Intelligence and Security Committee despite being thorn in the government’s side.

    Good appointment and mature thinking
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    Very tasteless comment, considering Jo Cox's fate.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    Because he means it. This is, after all, an MP who has expressed approval of terrorism against fellow citizens.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I don't think that follows, because if you zoom in on the top decile it is itself a spectrum. 74 drinks a week looks a lot but its less than 2 bottles of wine a day, and there are a lot of people by whose standards that is almost teetotal. So there are people in the decile drinking less than 74 drinks a week, and the most price-sensitive of that subset are highly likely to be susceptible to pricing pressure to the extent of moderating (even if only slightly) their intake.

    The problem with this is the people most likely to be price sensitive are the people who can take it or leave it, the people who aren't problem drinkers in the first place.

    One can assume two different demand-vs-price graphs for problem vs non problem drinkers, the first being highly elastic while the second being highly inelastic.

    In other words the only people this stupid nannying law will have any impact on are poor people who like a drink now and again but can take it leave it, who will be deprived an occasional pleasure. The seriously addicted will do what addicts always do - find a way to pay for their addiction. And the rich will carry on regardless. So what is the point of this law?
    I am not an advocate of the law, as I suspect price elasticity for alcoholics is limited.

    Its effects will probably be at the margin, on those shifting into problem behavior.

    Perhaps the most interesting effect will be if brewers and vinters return to the strengths sold decades ago, with beer and cider at 3-4% and wine around 9- 10%, compared to currently being about 50% stronger than that.

    A beer or a bottle of wine could remain an affordable pleasure if it was weaker.
    A very good point. I'm quite fond of Sam Smiths pubs because you can get a pint of Alpine Lager (2.8%) and drink four or five and have a good night out with your friends and not get blotto. Because of the low alcohol content there is also less tax on it so it is very cheap (around £2 a pint the last time I went in). I wish more pubs did the same.

    When did Smiths do that?! It used to be 4ish at the Theee Goats Head in Ox!
    It's lager though. Can't be seen drinking that in UK; only fit for very hot weather.
    Agreed. How about Adnams Sole Star, now only 0.9% abv?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I don't think that follows, because if you zoom in on the top decile it is itself a spectrum. 74 drinks a week looks a lot but its less than 2 bottles of wine a day, and there are a lot of people by whose standards that is almost teetotal. So there are people in the decile drinking less than 74 drinks a week, and the most price-sensitive of that subset are highly likely to be susceptible to pricing pressure to the extent of moderating (even if only slightly) their intake.

    The problem with this is the people most likely to be price sensitive are the people who can take it or leave it, the people who aren't problem drinkers in the first place.

    One can assume two different demand-vs-price graphs for problem vs non problem drinkers, the first being highly elastic while the second being highly inelastic.

    In other words the only people this stupid nannying law will have any impact on are poor people who like a drink now and again but can take it leave it, who will be deprived an occasional pleasure. The seriously addicted will do what addicts always do - find a way to pay for their addiction. And the rich will carry on regardless. So what is the point of this law?
    I am not an advocate of the law, as I suspect price elasticity for alcoholics is limited.

    Its effects will probably be at the margin, on those shifting into problem behavior.

    Perhaps the most interesting effect will be if brewers and vinters return to the strengths sold decades ago, with beer and cider at 3-4% and wine around 9- 10%, compared to currently being about 50% stronger than that.

    A beer or a bottle of wine could remain an affordable pleasure if it was weaker.
    A very good point. I'm quite fond of Sam Smiths pubs because you can get a pint of Alpine Lager (2.8%) and drink four or five and have a good night out with your friends and not get blotto. Because of the low alcohol content there is also less tax on it so it is very cheap (around £2 a pint the last time I went in). I wish more pubs did the same.

    When did Smiths do that?! It used to be 4ish at the Theee Goats Head in Ox!
    It's lager though. Can't be seen drinking that in UK; only fit for very hot weather.
    I am rather partial to Banks's Mild, for a lower strength pint of British heritage.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,466
    What an awful looking group of individuals. Bitterness taking its toll I suppose.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    What an awful looking group of individuals. Bitterness taking its toll I suppose.

    In what way do they look worse than any random group of MPs would?
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    What an awful looking group of individuals. Bitterness taking its toll I suppose.

    Jeez - is that the best you can do?

    Idiot!
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Telegraph lost it years ago. Sad.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
    File it with Abbott for leader!

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
    You could still win. US state polling is tough
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    edited November 2017
    Further analysis of EU Bill vote:

    Total vote = 610

    Max = 650 - 7 SF - 4 Speakers - 4 tellers = 635.

    So 25 missing.

    Per earlier post (9.31pm below): 12 Con missing. Also 1 DUP missing.

    So 12 opposition MPs also missing. Some may be deliberate abstentions (ie Lab leavers) but implies opposition is struggling to get full turnout.

    NB. Includes Chairmen (ie Hanson, Amess) but they will cancel out.

  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
    Just as in other contexts references to death by poisonous gas would be loaded relative to death by other methods.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:
    The New European has turned into a surprisingly readable paper. I must pick up a copy :)
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
    You may be underestimating the voters of Alabama.
  • Options
    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    MikeL said:

    Further analysis of EU Bill vote:

    Total vote = 610

    Max = 650 - 7 SF - 4 Speakers - 4 tellers = 635.

    So 25 missing.

    Per earlier post (9.31pm below): 12 Con missing. Also 1 DUP missing.

    So 12 opposition MPs also missing. Some may be deliberate abstentions (ie Lab leavers) but implies opposition is struggling to get full turnout.

    NB. Includes Chairmen (ie Hanson, Amess) but they will cancel out.

    There'll be at least some paring going on due to illness/other commitments.
  • Options
    Looking at that front page, 8 of those are solicitors/barristers, including a few QCs and one former Attorney General of England & Wales and one former Sol-Gen too.

    They have sound judgment based on their professions.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
    You could still win. US state polling is tough
    Melania has tipped it now.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
    Just as in other contexts references to death by poisonous gas would be loaded relative to death by other methods.
    Is decapitation fine and dandy?

    or stabbing in the back? When this is going on?

    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/updates-sentencing-baby-faced-killer-773399

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    Rhubarb said:

    MikeL said:

    Further analysis of EU Bill vote:

    Total vote = 610

    Max = 650 - 7 SF - 4 Speakers - 4 tellers = 635.

    So 25 missing.

    Per earlier post (9.31pm below): 12 Con missing. Also 1 DUP missing.

    So 12 opposition MPs also missing. Some may be deliberate abstentions (ie Lab leavers) but implies opposition is struggling to get full turnout.

    NB. Includes Chairmen (ie Hanson, Amess) but they will cancel out.

    There'll be at least some paring going on due to illness/other commitments.
    Wasn't there a view just after the election that Labour weren't going to support pairing arrangements?
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    Scott_P said:
    The New European has turned into a surprisingly readable paper. I must pick up a copy :)
    Add 1 to their 20,000 then
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: Government majority dropping in EU Withdrawal Bill votes: 20, 20, 21 yesterday and 16, 12 so far this evening.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2017
    Apparently they do 20k per issue. Interestingly while newspapers are dying, specialist magazines that have survived seem to be doing quite well. The Speccy is up to its highest circulation in its history I believe, 100k per week.

    I find this quite bizarre. Specalist magazines are on the whole very expensive and these days what information do they provide that can't be found on the internet (often complete with an active community) for free.
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    edited November 2017

    Rhubarb said:

    MikeL said:

    Further analysis of EU Bill vote:

    Total vote = 610

    Max = 650 - 7 SF - 4 Speakers - 4 tellers = 635.

    So 25 missing.

    Per earlier post (9.31pm below): 12 Con missing. Also 1 DUP missing.

    So 12 opposition MPs also missing. Some may be deliberate abstentions (ie Lab leavers) but implies opposition is struggling to get full turnout.

    NB. Includes Chairmen (ie Hanson, Amess) but they will cancel out.

    There'll be at least some paring going on due to illness/other commitments.
    Wasn't there a view just after the election that Labour weren't going to support pairing arrangements?
    Wasn't that before the DUP deal when everything was going to be much closer?

    (As a bloke on a laptop along way from Westminster I may have missed something.)
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,466
    murali_s said:

    What an awful looking group of individuals. Bitterness taking its toll I suppose.

    Jeez - is that the best you can do?

    Idiot!
    Speaking of which...
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    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: Government majority dropping in EU Withdrawal Bill votes: 20, 20, 21 yesterday and 16, 12 so far this evening.

    Whips playing a blinder
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    Jonathan said:

    Telegraph lost it years ago. Sad.

    It really is a rubbish newspaper. This last weekend for the first time in years I got it as my free newspaper while at Waitrose. It weighed a ton. Once I'd thrown out all the advertising bumf and freebies etc I sat down to read it. Pah! Nothing to it - a quick skim was all that was needed. There was nothing to read, really read, in it at all. 10 mins later it was being scrunched up to make a fire.

    Why anyone would pay good money for it beats me.

    Mind you, I buy newspapers less and less these days. Never during the week and quite often I miss them out at the weekend as well.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Telegraph lost it years ago. Sad.

    It really is a rubbish newspaper. This last weekend for the first time in years I got it as my free newspaper while at Waitrose. It weighed a ton. Once I'd thrown out all the advertising bumf and freebies etc I sat down to read it. Pah! Nothing to it - a quick skim was all that was needed. There was nothing to read, really read, in it at all. 10 mins later it was being scrunched up to make a fire.

    Why anyone would pay good money for it beats me.

    Mind you, I buy newspapers less and less these days. Never during the week and quite often I miss them out at the weekend as well.
    The Telegraph has lost massive numbers of staff over the past 2 years. I am not sure a week goes by without Staines reporting some massive bust-up over at Telegraph Towers.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: Government majority dropping in EU Withdrawal Bill votes: 20, 20, 21 yesterday and 16, 12 so far this evening.

    Not sure that necessarily signifies anything unless the proposed amendments have been ordered in terms of perceived level of Tory internal opposition? We know some more difficult ones are coming up, and presumably they'll lose some at some point, but otherwise after 5 votes is it just coincidence? If the next majority is 20, will the report be 'government majority rebounds'?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,466
    Spectator is the only 'paper' I get.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Telegraph lost it years ago. Sad.

    It really is a rubbish newspaper. This last weekend for the first time in years I got it as my free newspaper while at Waitrose. It weighed a ton. Once I'd thrown out all the advertising bumf and freebies etc I sat down to read it. Pah! Nothing to it - a quick skim was all that was needed. There was nothing to read, really read, in it at all. 10 mins later it was being scrunched up to make a fire.

    Why anyone would pay good money for it beats me.

    Mind you, I buy newspapers less and less these days. Never during the week and quite often I miss them out at the weekend as well.
    Ended my subscription today after last nights headlines and I want to leave the EU
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
    Just as in other contexts references to death by poisonous gas would be loaded relative to death by other methods.
    Is decapitation fine and dandy?

    or stabbing in the back? When this is going on?

    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/updates-sentencing-baby-faced-killer-773399

    Jesus H Christ, have you been at the methadone? Did I say that any method of executing or murdering any human being was in any respect fine, good or acceptable? You asked a dumb question to which I politely gave you the correct answer. To run it by you again: in some contexts, reference to some particular methods is particularly unacceptable. Got it?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
    Just as in other contexts references to death by poisonous gas would be loaded relative to death by other methods.
    Is decapitation fine and dandy?

    or stabbing in the back? When this is going on?

    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/updates-sentencing-baby-faced-killer-773399

    Jesus H Christ, have you been at the methadone? Did I say that any method of executing or murdering any human being was in any respect fine, good or acceptable? You asked a dumb question to which I politely gave you the correct answer. To run it by you again: in some contexts, reference to some particular methods is particularly unacceptable. Got it?
    Dr. Fox has fallen in love with the hard left.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Tim80: As a "remoaner" I've never subscribed to the view that all brexiteers are thick and racist, ...but only some of them. Moreover probably enough to sway the original vote. If brexiteers are getting twitchy about this view, then that's their own fault. They needed to be aware of "fellow travellers" on their journey. I am annoyed about brexiteers assumption that anyone who raises worries or warnings are immediately branded as traitors.

    A cack-handed attempt to smear by association. Why on earth are people to be held liable for the views of other people who vote the same way as they do?
    Sauce for the goose. PB Tories make accusations of guilt by association too when people suggest voting Labour.
    That's because it is general political behaviour, not restricted to one set of partisans. Sometimes a side may be worse than the other when it comes to those general behaviours and that's a point worth arguing, but it's only when a side acts as though it alone has a virtue, or its opponents are the only ones with certain sins, that one must call foul.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    I think it's a shoddy front page.

    But, going back to my theme of people having it much worse in the recent past, Conservative and Unionist politicians were getting a much rougher time in the 70's 80's and 90's and getting less sympathy.
    It is counter productive to the extent that a minority government absolutely needs to stick together which is why some have spoken against it but the fact is that if we are to have a government at all at the moment people need to make their case internally but accept the majority decision. The road to anything else is the road to chaos.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    What an awful looking group of individuals. Bitterness taking its toll I suppose.

    ?? Looks like generally pretty decent photos to me.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2017

    twitter.com/notwokieleaks/status/930913624016736261

    I believe there is a word for that....cluster...cluster...cluster...something.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Detroit, now there's a city with an image problem. My immediate thought is of a city in serial decline, withered and bitter. I've no idea if that is fair (though I understand the city to have shrunk considerably from its heyday) but its generally not a good sign if that is the impression people get from what has to be mostly american media.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Enjoy the rats.
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    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Surely monthly collections are a public health hazard.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Telegraph lost it years ago. Sad.

    It really is a rubbish newspaper. This last weekend for the first time in years I got it as my free newspaper while at Waitrose. It weighed a ton. Once I'd thrown out all the advertising bumf and freebies etc I sat down to read it. Pah! Nothing to it - a quick skim was all that was needed. There was nothing to read, really read, in it at all. 10 mins later it was being scrunched up to make a fire.

    Why anyone would pay good money for it beats me.

    Mind you, I buy newspapers less and less these days. Never during the week and quite often I miss them out at the weekend as well.
    Its a rag.

    The only paper worth actually paying money for these days is the Guardian (and perhaps the Times at a stretch). And I say that as someone completely at odds with their political slant. But they still at least try to value journalistic standards unlike the Telegraph which has become the broadsheet Mail.
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    DavidL said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Enjoy the rats.
    We are good at recycling in the County and of course the weekly food waste and trolley block with plastic, cardboard, glass and paper will continue but many, especially families, will struggle and then the danger rises of fly tipping
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,956
    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I don't think that follows, because if you zoom in on the top decile it is itself a spectrum. 74 drinks a week looks a lot but its less than 2 bottles of wine a day, and there are a lot of people by whose standards that is almost teetotal. So there are people in the decile drinking less than 74 drinks a week, and the most price-sensitive of that subset are highly likely to be susceptible to pricing pressure to the extent of moderating (even if only slightly) their intake.

    The problem with this is the people most likely to be price sensitive are the people who can take it or leave it, the people who aren't problem drinkers in the first place.

    One can assume two different demand-vs-price graphs for problem vs non problem drinkers, the first being highly elastic while the second being highly inelastic.

    In other words the only people this stupid nannying law will have any impact on are poor people who like a drink now and again but can take it leave it, who will be deprived an occasional pleasure. The seriously addicted will do what addicts always do - find a way to pay for their addiction. And the rich will carry on regardless. So what is the point of this law?
    I am not an advocate of the law, as I suspect price elasticity for alcoholics is limited.

    Its effects will probably be at the margin, on those shifting into problem behavior.

    Perhaps the most interesting effect will be if brewers and vinters return to the strengths sold decades ago, with beer and cider at 3-4% and wine around 9- 10%, compared to currently being about 50% stronger than that.

    A beer or a bottle of wine could remain an affordable pleasure if it was weaker.
    A very good point. I'm quite fond of Sam Smiths pubs because you can get a pint of Alpine Lager (2.8%) and drink four or five and have a good night out with your friends and not get blotto. Because of the low alcohol content there is also less tax on it so it is very cheap (around £2 a pint the last time I went in). I wish more pubs did the same.

    When did Smiths do that?! It used to be 4ish at the Theee Goats Head in Ox!
    Good question, I know they changed it a while back. A quick google tells me they changed it in 2011, when the duty on beers at or under 2.8% ABV was halved.

    Seems like a sane solution all round compared to minimum pricing - people get a choice, the government still gets tax revenue, as opposed to the minimum price going in the brewer's pocket...
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    No one with any sense or intelligence.
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    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Surely monthly collections are a public health hazard.
    The danger is that some will fly tip but food waste and recycling is collected weekly
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited November 2017

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Surely monthly collections are a public health hazard.
    Well I don't know - at what point would it become a health hazard? Is fortnightly the upper limit? Tri-weekly?

    When I've missed a collection and had to wait for the next one, in effect therefore 4-weekly, I cannot say I've noticed a problem other than the obvious that I was running out of space, but that need not be a definitive roadblock, depending on how much recycling or other waste collection there is. It does seem a long time though, it's asking a lot of people to not throw that much away, particularly when many authorities have smaller rubbish bins anyway now.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311

    DavidL said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Enjoy the rats.
    We are good at recycling in the County and of course the weekly food waste and trolley block with plastic, cardboard, glass and paper will continue but many, especially families, will struggle and then the danger rises of fly tipping
    We’ve got fortnightly bin collection and tbh we would not manage without the ability to offload rubbish on my mother in law who now lives alone.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,290
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Surely monthly collections are a public health hazard.
    Well I don't know - at what point would it become a health hazard? Is fortnightly the upper limit? Tri-weekly?

    When I've missed a collection and had to wait for the next one, in effect therefore 4-weekly, I cannot say I've noticed a problem other than the obvious that I was running out of space, but that need not be a definitive roadblock, depending on how much recycling or other waste collection there is. It does seem a long time though, it's asking a lot of people to not throw that much away, particularly when many authorities have smaller rubbish bins anyway now.
    It works where there is space for a wheelie bin outside where the refuse can be stored until collection. For properties without the space, small flats, bedsits and HMOs it doesn't really work, except where they come with a purpose designed refuse storage area.

    And TBF I am thinking more of fortnightly than monthly
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    58% of Americans support a FTA with the UK, 9% are opposed and 32% don't know.

    Trump voters are most supportive with 78% backing a FTA compared to 52% of Clinton voters.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/11/lord-ashcroft-what-american-voters-think-of-trump.html
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    Looking at that front page, 8 of those are solicitors/barristers, including a few QCs and one former Attorney General of England & Wales and one former Sol-Gen too.

    They have sound judgment based on their professions.

    No doubt you'd say the same about George Jeffreys.
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    kle4 said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Surely monthly collections are a public health hazard.
    Well I don't know - at what point would it become a health hazard? Is fortnightly the upper limit? Tri-weekly?

    When I've missed a collection and had to wait for the next one, in effect therefore 4-weekly, I cannot say I've noticed a problem other than the obvious that I was running out of space, but that need not be a definitive roadblock, depending on how much recycling or other waste collection there is. It does seem a long time though, it's asking a lot of people to not throw that much away, particularly when many authorities have smaller rubbish bins anyway now.
    Firstly, imagine on a monthly cycle you miss your collection....secondly, I would say there is a difference between one person missing the fortnightly cycle and effectively waiting a month and the whole population doing so.

    I would say fortnightly, with weekly recycling is the upper limit.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Enjoy the rats.
    We are good at recycling in the County and of course the weekly food waste and trolley block with plastic, cardboard, glass and paper will continue but many, especially families, will struggle and then the danger rises of fly tipping
    We’ve got fortnightly bin collection and tbh we would not manage without the ability to offload rubbish on my mother in law who now lives alone.
    And that is the problem
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,311

    No one with any sense or intelligence.
    Perhaps the lack of sense is most obvious amongst those who think the Telegraph front page some sort of threat to democracy but this front page witty or amusing.
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    DavidL said:

    No one with any sense or intelligence.
    Perhaps the lack of sense is most obvious amongst those who think the Telegraph front page some sort of threat to democracy but this front page witty or amusing.
    +1
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    The danger is that some will fly tip but food waste and recycling is collected weekly

    It's interesting how waste collection varies from authority to authority. In my area we have the ordinary bin collection weekly, recycling collection fortnightly and there is no separate food waste collection at all.

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    DavidL said:

    No one with any sense or intelligence.
    Perhaps the lack of sense is most obvious amongst those who think the Telegraph front page some sort of threat to democracy but this front page witty or amusing.
    Indeed. Doesn't stop the Telegraph being a rag these days though. Which is a shame as it was once a really good paper.
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    The Independent is another paper which has gone down in recent years (I think it’s only online now).
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    edited November 2017

    Looking at that front page, 8 of those are solicitors/barristers, including a few QCs and one former Attorney General of England & Wales and one former Sol-Gen too.

    They have sound judgment based on their professions.

    No doubt you'd say the same about George Jeffreys.
    Nope

    1) He was a Ramshagger Welsh

    2) He's been dead for over 300 years, it is never wise to judge historical figures to modern day standards.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    Animal welfare clause:

    295 - 313

    Govt majority up to 18!
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic but maybe of interest.

    My local authority ( Conwy) are about to approve 4 week bin collections and this after 5% rate increase for years

    Enjoy the rats.
    We are good at recycling in the County and of course the weekly food waste and trolley block with plastic, cardboard, glass and paper will continue but many, especially families, will struggle and then the danger rises of fly tipping
    We’ve got fortnightly bin collection and tbh we would not manage without the ability to offload rubbish on my mother in law who now lives alone.
    And that is the problem
    Speaking of bin collections, our council is Leeds. Last week the bin lorry literally ate our brown bin into which the recyclable garden waste is dumped. As understand it at least 3 other brown bins in our street suffered the same grisly fate. When my wife called the council to enquire when we could expect a new bin she was told that it would cost £16 because the bin crew had not reported it as a fault. When she asked if the council did not believe her she was told.....yes.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    Sorry, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people?

    People in the past have threatened to 'Jo Cox' Anna Soubry.

    So the answer is yes.

    Even hardcore Leavers like Steve Baker and Dominic Raab disavowed this Telegraph front page.
    shouldnt that be Esther McVey her ?
    That's why John McDonnell near the levers of powers scares me more than Corbyn.
    Lynching is like stabbing in the back, a metaphor.

    Not one that I would use, but why is killing with a rope getting you clutching your pearls, while killing with a knife in the back fine and dandy? Why is decapitation unremarkeable for that matter?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Web007rzSOI
    Just as in other contexts references to death by poisonous gas would be loaded relative to death by other methods.
    Is decapitation fine and dandy?

    or stabbing in the back? When this is going on?

    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/updates-sentencing-baby-faced-killer-773399

    Jesus H Christ, have you been at the methadone? Did I say that any method of executing or murdering any human being was in any respect fine, good or acceptable? You asked a dumb question to which I politely gave you the correct answer. To run it by you again: in some contexts, reference to some particular methods is particularly unacceptable. Got it?
    As I said, it is not a metaphor that I would use.

    Just that I dont make distinction between one form of violent murder than another. Nothing to do with being from the left/right.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    HYUFD said:

    58% of Americans support a FTA with the UK, 9% are opposed and 32% don't know.

    Trump voters are most supportive with 78% backing a FTA compared to 52% of Clinton voters.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/11/lord-ashcroft-what-american-voters-think-of-trump.html

    There is no realistic chance of an FTA with the US (anytime soon) because:

    1. They will impose the same ISDS structure that they have with NAFTA. This means that secret courts of two American and one non-America have the right to rule that British laws are incompatible with the FTA. For example, in Canada, this led to the Quebec government's law requiring GM products to be labelled being thrown out.

    2. No US FTA would be acceptable if it did not allow full access of US agricultural products to the UK. This means that you will have the choice between expensive British products (because they are made to UK food standards) against cheap US ones (made to US standards).

    3. The US, in all recent FTAs, requires that governments keep their intellectual property laws in lock step with the US. So, if the US changes the law on copyright length, we will be treaty bound to change ours.
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    Looking at that front page, 8 of those are solicitors/barristers, including a few QCs and one former Attorney General of England & Wales and one former Sol-Gen too.

    They have sound judgment based on their professions.

    No doubt you'd say the same about George Jeffreys.
    Nope

    1) He was a Ramshagger Welsh

    2) He's been dead for over 300 years, it is never wise to judge historical figures to modern day standards.
    So why do you persist in doing so with Dave and George?
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    The danger is that some will fly tip but food waste and recycling is collected weekly

    It's interesting how waste collection varies from authority to authority. In my area we have the ordinary bin collection weekly, recycling collection fortnightly and there is no separate food waste collection at all.

    We do have a weekly food waste collection together with a trolley block of three containers, one for paper, one for plastic, and one for cardboard and glass
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    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCJonSopel: And now @IvankaTrump weighs in on @MooreSenate saying “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I’ve yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts.”

    I might as well burn my bet slips on Roy Moore now.

    Can we all forget about Sunday's thread?
    You may be underestimating the voters of Alabama.
    Or overestimating them.
This discussion has been closed.