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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on the dramatic events in Harare

Dr Julia Gallagher, Senior Lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Royal Holloway, University of London, said:

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

Heh

TheScreamingEagles

Poor Grace Mugabe

dr_spyn

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

felix

fpt
Labour and Tories both on 41% in latest Guardian/ICM poll

And here are the latest ICM state-of-the-party polling figures.

Labour: 41% (down 1 from Guardian/ICM three weeks ago)

Conservatives: 41% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (no change)

Ukip: 4% (up 1)

Greens: 2% (no change)

Guardian

Luckyguy1983

I don't think anyone will be sad to see Mugabe go, but the new guy doesn't sound much better.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/930757409194348544

Luckyguy1983

Super drawing by Marf.

dr_spyn

Was surprised to see that Corbyn still hasn't managed to pull ahead in latest You Gov poll, after 2 Cabinet Ministers leave a weak Prime Minister's government, wall to wall headlines & a BBC helicopter chase.

https://twitter.com/AndrewSparrow/status/930752043823910912

HHemmelig

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Anorak

The excellent news that the bonkers Mugabe has been removed is somewhat tempered by his proposed replacement managing to be worse. Somehow.

dr_spyn

Military kleptocracy, government of, by and for thieves.

Luckyguy1983

HHemmelig said:

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Not really news to me. Let's hope May is ousted and someone who actually believes in leaving (not Boris) replaces her.

Jonathan

Can we send Boris to mediate?

AlsoIndigo

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

CarlottaVance

TheScreamingEagles said:

Poor Grace Mugabe

Wonder who wrote these:

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/927467531266338816

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/927877484573585408

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/930692461701353475

And whether they were all written by the same person.....

Essexit

Luckyguy1983 said:

I don't think anyone will be sad to see Mugabe go, but the new guy doesn't sound much better.

I tweeted earlier that military dictatorship would still be a step up from Mugabe.

One has to eat one's words sometimes.

AlsoIndigo

FPT:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May has excellent judgment, never doubted her

ttps://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/930749069416427520

Not if there are more than 48 of them I would suggest.

TheScreamingEagles

Being generous, like is the only way to save/bookmark something on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/930757946614730752

TOPPING

HHemmelig said:

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

It seems that as anecdotally recorded by PB contributors, several sectors (financial services, steel, vehicles, foodstuffs) are all thinking: nah.

What an extraordinary position for a grown-up country to be in.

CarlottaVance

HHemmelig said:

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Thanks. Either it is as you suggest and the UK government is working on the mother of all climb-downs....or Brussels still doesn't believe it and we're heading for a train wreck of heroic proportions......

Ishmael_Z

CarlottaVance said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Poor Grace Mugabe

Wonder who wrote these:

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/927467531266338816

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/927877484573585408

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/930692461701353475

And whether they were all written by the same person.....

"There is n COUP in Zimbabwe"... where n is an integer equal to or greater than 1, presumably?

TheScreamingEagles

CarlottaVance said:

HHemmelig said:

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Thanks. Either it is as you suggest and the UK government is working on the mother of all climb-downs....or Brussels still doesn't believe it and we're heading for a train wreck of heroic proportions......

The latter. From our trade bodies, they say our EU allies cannot comprehend that a country/government would willingly do the damage of a hard/WTO Brexit

Richard_Nabavi

I suspect this isn't a coup against Mugabe, but is part of the jostling for power after he departs this earth (which can't be far away, given his age).

CarlottaVance

Oh well.....at least the murderous kleptocratic tyrant 'Uncle Bob' got an airport named after him.....6 days ago:

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/928578054993203200

Sandpit

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Or alternatively, the EU side have put no effort into preparing for the trade talks, because of the expectation we’ll back down and remain either in the EU, or at least the single market and customs union.

Yet another reminder of why we voted to leave in the first place. There’s not going to be a trade deal, so we might as well admit it now that we’ll be leaving without one and work hard for the next 18 months to mitigate the problems that situation will cause.

Anorak

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/930757409194348544

I'd vote for a moderate Labour Party (anything right of Miliband) over the current Tories.
And I'm sure there are nominal Labour supporters who would vote for an unashamedly Cameroon Tory Party over current Labour.

The electorate is frozen by the current polarisation* of the main parties, with moderates/floaters on both sides afraid to vote for a minor party for fear of it letting their particular bête noire get into power**.

*frozen, polarisation, geddit?
**or into meaningful power in the Tory case.

Sandpit

On topic, great cartoon from Marf, I’m not too sure that many people will be sad about the end of Robert Mugabe.

CarlottaVance

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

HHemmelig said:

From previous thread

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Thanks. Either it is as you suggest and the UK government is working on the mother of all climb-downs....or Brussels still doesn't believe it and we're heading for a train wreck of heroic proportions......

The latter. From our trade bodies, they say our EU allies cannot comprehend that a country/government would willingly do the damage of a hard/WTO Brexit

That's foolish from their point of view - because all the 'Trade Deals' the EU has include access to the UK - a non-trivial market - without the UK all their trade deals have problems - some of which may be easier to resolve than others. Incompetence on one side of the channel, insouciance on the other will not lead to a happy ending - for either side....

AlastairMeeks

TheScreamingEagles said:

Being generous, like is the only way to save/bookmark something on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/930757946614730752

I'm quite prepared to give Michael Gove the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Besides, the fervent niceness of Leavers towards their critical Remain colleagues is in no way a tacit admission of weakness and in no way reflects the desperate need to keep them onside in future Parliamentary votes.

Uncrushed saboteurs are always the most dangerous type.

Anorak

Keith Barron dead. I never understood why Duty Free was as popular as it was.

FF43

HHemmelig said:

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

William has a very logical position that if everything other than full membership of the EU will at least be compromised and mediocre (which it will be) then the rational thing is what will happen. I suspect we will end up with the mediocre but William's argument is a good one.

rkrkrk

Very interesting article from Martin Wolff on tech firms and the challenges they pose to the global economy and global regulation.

https://www.ft.com/content/45092c5c-c872-11e7-aa33-c63fdc9b8c6c

Sandpit

Vince Cable’s back in the news. He says he doesn’t regret having Lord Rennard campaign with him at the election.
https://order-order.com/2017/11/15/cable-dont-regret-rennard-campaign/

Big_G_NorthWales

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

logical_song

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

AlastairMeeks

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

I believe the good Doctor is referring to a former President of Zimbabwe whose downfall was very in tune with the zeitgeist of late 2017.

AlsoIndigo

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

I think the air fare might make it a little less economical We actually do have a few Waitrose items here now as they have partnered with the upmarket supermarket chain found in the better off cities, supposedly Tesco have arrived partnering someone else local, but I haven't seen it yet.

FF43

Anorak said:

Keith Barron dead. I never understood why Duty Free was as popular as it was.

I heard an interview with the former British Consul in Malaga (?) He had to deal with this woman whose husband had dropped dead on holiday, ship his corpse home and so on. He was nonplussed when the woman asked if she could get her husband's duty free allowance as his body would be on the flight.

AlsoIndigo

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

Sandpit

rkrkrk said:

Very interesting article from Martin Wolff on tech firms and the challenges they pose to the global economy and global regulation.

https://www.ft.com/content/45092c5c-c872-11e7-aa33-c63fdc9b8c6c

The world’s trading system was set up to deal with goods and can’t really deal with intangibles, it’s causing real problems as companies can base themselves wherever they like and sell internationally with little regulatory oversight.

Brexit is a huge opportunity for Britain on several fronts. We can lobby for reforms from the WTO with our seat back, outside the EU single market we will find it easier to force companies trading in the UK to register in the UK, and there’s also an opportunity to attract more companies to the UK with an internationally competitive corporate tax regime.

logical_song

AlastairMeeks said:

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

I believe the good Doctor is referring to a former President of Zimbabwe whose downfall was very in tune with the zeitgeist of late 2017.

Ah Canaan Banana, great name.

TheScreamingEagles

AlastairMeeks said:

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

I believe the good Doctor is referring to a former President of Zimbabwe whose downfall was very in tune with the zeitgeist of late 2017.

One of my favourite newspaper headlines

'Man says he was sodomised by Banana'

foxinsoxuk

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

In view of Britains obesity epidemic, and world diabetes day yesterday, I think best to leave the Lurpack on the shelf.

Try oatmeal for breakfast made with water instead for breakfast instead

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

I believe the good Doctor is referring to a former President of Zimbabwe whose downfall was very in tune with the zeitgeist of late 2017.

One of my favourite newspaper headlines

'Man says he was sodomised by Banana'

I thought the headline was "Twelve Men sodomised by Banana."

FF43

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/YLZANUPF1/status/930692461701353475

"Gallant and peaceful aplomb" is such an elegant euphemism for "coup" !

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

logical_song said:

dr_spyn said:

If that's not a coup, I'm a Banana.

Good cartoon.

'Pipe' surely.

I believe the good Doctor is referring to a former President of Zimbabwe whose downfall was very in tune with the zeitgeist of late 2017.

One of my favourite newspaper headlines

'Man says he was sodomised by Banana'

I thought the headline was "Twelve Men sodomised by Banana."

That too.

SandyRentool

Is it time for #JeSuisMugabe ?

So why didn't they overthrow him a couple of decades ago?

TheScreamingEagles

Future Tory leader Tom Tugendhat up first at PMQs

Sean_F

SandyRentool said:

Is it time for #JeSuisMugabe ?

So why didn't they overthrow him a couple of decades ago?

Mnangangwa expected to succeed Mugabe. Then, once he was sacked as Vice President last week, his supporters in the army decided to act.

Big_G_NorthWales

foxinsoxuk said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

In view of Britains obesity epidemic, and world diabetes day yesterday, I think best to leave the Lurpack on the shelf.

Try oatmeal for breakfast made with water instead for breakfast instead

Porridge for breakfast then

david_herdson

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

AlsoIndigo

foxinsoxuk said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

In view of Britains obesity epidemic, and world diabetes day yesterday, I think best to leave the Lurpack on the shelf.

Try oatmeal for breakfast made with water instead for breakfast instead

Sounds like the old joke.

Patient: Doctor Doctor I want to live to 140!
Doctor: Well don't drink, don't smoke, dont eat rich foods and don't have sex.
Patient: Will that make me live to 140 ?
Doctor: No, but it will certainly feel like it.

IanB2

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

The one that put Catherine the Great in power, perhaps? And the one that overthrew Ceausescu. And the RPF during the Rwanda genocide.

rottenborough

TheScreamingEagles said:

Future Tory leader Tom Tugendhat up first at PMQs

Mixed up debt and deficit before correcting himself.

HYUFD

It all went wrong for Mugabe after he met Nicholas Soames last month, ironically Soames visit foretold the end of his presidency

Nigelb

IanB2 said:

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

The one that put Catherine the Great in power, perhaps? And the one that overthrew Ceausescu.

And, despite the manifest failings of the current regime, Rwanda.

In Zimbabwe's case, it just seems to be one shit deposing another....

rottenborough

Jezza on about police and firefighter numbers.

david_herdson

HHemmelig said:

anothernick said:

TOPPING said:

Nah.

Many people were on the fence previously, mainly as a function of not giving too much of a fuck about it.

Which is why a reversal of the process, if and when it happens, will not cause the sky to fall in or threaten the future of democracy - most people do not feel strongly about the issue either way. I work in a non-political environment and it hardly ever comes up in office conversation. At board level people are very worried but everyone else is much more interested in Strictly. Brexit has not impacted. Yet.

I had a meeting with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Though about a dry and mostly unrelated issue (future framework for assessing dumping of steel), it was with officials from the trade directorate who are therefore probably quite clued up about what's going on in Brexit talks. The overwhelming sense I got was that there's no expectation of Brexit happening in any meaningful sense. If not a total reversal then they may be expecting some kind of Brexit in name only. Much as William Glenn is ridiculed on here, it suggests he may be correct that the government in private is preparing for the mother of all back tracks.

Or alternatively, that the EU is deeply deluded about where British politics is. May could not sell backing out of Brexit without leaving her party and doing a deal with those on the other side of the House, as I said at the weekend.

FF43

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

Suggestion, given your interest in British history: the Glorious Revolution of 1688? More recently the 1974 Carnation Revolution in Portugal that ushered in democracy for that country. But rare.

TOPPING

Good line not Labour enough...

Big_G_NorthWales

Theresa on good form today

rottenborough

May seems to have got back some confidence.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/dmck52/status/930705139270340609

Luckyguy1983

foxinsoxuk said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlsoIndigo said:

FPT:

CarlottaVance said:

Rising demand and a decline in milk production has led to a doubling in the price of the dairy spread this year. French bakeries want to raise the price of pastries, brioches and croissants that are dependent on butter, while the chief executive of Arla, the company behind the Anchor and Lurpak dairy brands, last week warned UK consumers that there would not be enough butter at Christmas.

Bizarrely, living as I do 7000 miles or so away from France, this has been noticed here as well. There is an excellent French bakery about 200 yds from my house, run by an expat French chef who typically, and magnificently, refuses to compromise his standards and still imports his butter from France for the croissant, because it is the only one which gives him the quality he wants. Even with the doubling of the price of his butter, and the attendant price hike for the finished product I still pay about £1.20 for it, which although a substantial amount in the local economy, is probably less than I would pay in England!

Asda have lurpak on special offer so go and grab a bargain

In view of Britains obesity epidemic, and world diabetes day yesterday, I think best to leave the Lurpack on the shelf.

Try oatmeal for breakfast made with water instead for breakfast instead

Consumption of fat, especially relatively healthy fat like butter, has nothing to do with diabetes. Given that fat actually slows the rate of carbohydrate absorption, your watery porridge will spike your blood sugar more than if you melted a knob of butter in it.

rottenborough

Jezza now moved on to UC.

Mortimer

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Future Tory leader Tom Tugendhat up first at PMQs

Mixed up debt and deficit before correcting himself.

Oh dear.

He's ruined his chances with the membership, incidentally, by putting his head above t'parapet.

Big_G_NorthWales

Theresa has Corbyn on the ropes today

Ishmael_Z

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theresa on good form today

She sure as hell is - storming away.

HYUFD

felix said:

fpt
Labour and Tories both on 41% in latest Guardian/ICM poll

And here are the latest ICM state-of-the-party polling figures.

Labour: 41% (down 1 from Guardian/ICM three weeks ago)

Conservatives: 41% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (no change)

Ukip: 4% (up 1)

Greens: 2% (no change)

Guardian

On those numbers it would be Tories 304 and Labour 276 so Tories would still be largest party surprisingly despite their abysmal few weeks. Labour would likely need SNP +LD+PC+Green support to form a government and have a majority in Parliament

Sean_F

IanB2 said:

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

The one that put Catherine the Great in power, perhaps? And the one that overthrew Ceausescu. And the RPF during the Rwanda genocide.

Italy 1943 and Egypt, a couple of years ago. I'd view the RPF as a successful revolt, rather than a coup, though.

Scott_P

@JamesTapsfield: Corbyn back to his meandering worst at PMQs today

@bbclaurak: Now Corbyn onto food banks - this #pmqs is like his greatest hits

Big_G_NorthWales

Even demolishing him on the NHS - who would have thought it

Freggles

Excellent cartoon by Marf there

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/930769688644202496

FrancisUrquhart

Scott_P said:

@JamesTapsfield: Corbyn back to his meandering worst at PMQs today

@bbclaurak: Now Corbyn onto food banks - this #pmqs is like his greatest hits

Otherwise known as a Radiohead performance....the cult was love it while normal folk think wtf

david_herdson

IanB2 said:

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

The one that put Catherine the Great in power, perhaps? And the one that overthrew Ceausescu. And the RPF during the Rwanda genocide.

Catherine II was one I had on my list.I'm disallowing Romania though as that was a revolution, led by the people, rather than a coup (though it was enabled by the security forces siding with the people rather than the president). I'd not count Rwanda either, as the RPF cleared up a civil war rather than simply transferred power from one elite to another - though I'd agree that in terms of 'governments coming to power through violence', the RPF have done an unusually good job.

rottenborough

Jezza finally admits he is not PM.

TOPPING

rottenborough said:

Jezza now moved on to UC.

And he's flat on it and she's kicking his arse.

rottenborough

So, police numbers, UC, foodbanks, NHS, schools budget. All over the place.

rottenborough

Corbyn getting a shellacking here.

Big_G_NorthWales

Best TM performance for a long time. Seems rejuvenated

rottenborough

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Best TM performance for a long time. Seems rejuvenated

No leader challenge will happen this week now.

Big_G_NorthWales

Incoming to Corbyn on tax havens

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/930772252060192768

Big_G_NorthWales

That was some finish

david_herdson

FF43 said:

david_herdson said:

How many armed coups have ever made things better? it must be a short list, certainly compared against those which didn't.

Suggestion, given your interest in British history: the Glorious Revolution of 1688? More recently the 1974 Carnation Revolution in Portugal that ushered in democracy for that country. But rare.

Suggesting the Glorious revolution is stretching the definition of a coup, given that it was an invasion followed by a sustained military campaign. But if it is allowed, despite that, then yes.

If we're looking at British/English examples, probably James I is a better case. He didn't have legal title and was never named heir but his consolidation of power (via Robert Cecil and others) on Elizabeth I's death was so effective that few ever noticed. The alternative would almost certainly have involved some, and quite possibly a great deal of, bloodshed.

TOPPING

Uh oh new soundbite alert:

(Cons building a country) fit for the future.

rottenborough

Maybot has had a full reboot.

TheScreamingEagles

This is a Cameronesque performance at PMQs by Mrs May.

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/930772522211135488

Ishmael_Z

The more you think about it, the more damaging to Corbyn is the revelation that he couldn't be arsed to forward a letter from Edith in Croydon after saying he would.

Big_G_NorthWales

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is a Cameronesque performance at PMQs by Mrs May.

Can you repeat that

TheScreamingEagles

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is a Cameronesque performance at PMQs by Mrs May.

Can you repeat that

Don't worry she'll screw up soon enough.

AndyJS

HYUFD said:

felix said:

fpt
Labour and Tories both on 41% in latest Guardian/ICM poll

And here are the latest ICM state-of-the-party polling figures.

Labour: 41% (down 1 from Guardian/ICM three weeks ago)

Conservatives: 41% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (no change)

Ukip: 4% (up 1)

Greens: 2% (no change)

Guardian

On those numbers it would be Tories 304 and Labour 276 so Tories would still be largest party surprisingly despite their abysmal few weeks. Labour would likely need SNP +LD+PC+Green support to form a government and have a majority in Parliament

New boundaries:

Con 290
Lab 251
LD 7
Green 1
SNP 32
PC 2

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=41&LAB=41&LIB=7&UKIP=4&Green=2&NewLAB=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017nb

Big_G_NorthWales

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is a Cameronesque performance at PMQs by Mrs May.

Can you repeat that

Don't worry she'll screw up soon enough.

Enjoy the moment

david_herdson

HYUFD said:

felix said:

fpt
Labour and Tories both on 41% in latest Guardian/ICM poll

And here are the latest ICM state-of-the-party polling figures.

Labour: 41% (down 1 from Guardian/ICM three weeks ago)

Conservatives: 41% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (no change)

Ukip: 4% (up 1)

Greens: 2% (no change)

Guardian

On those numbers it would be Tories 304 and Labour 276 so Tories would still be largest party surprisingly despite their abysmal few weeks. Labour would likely need SNP +LD+PC+Green support to form a government and have a majority in Parliament

SNP + LD should be enough, shouldn't it?

TheScreamingEagles

Can they do this retrospectively?

@SkyEnda: The issue of diplomatic protection for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is now being discussed by lawyers

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/930772712234070016?s=17

HYUFD

david_herdson said:

HYUFD said:

felix said:

fpt
Labour and Tories both on 41% in latest Guardian/ICM poll

And here are the latest ICM state-of-the-party polling figures.

Labour: 41% (down 1 from Guardian/ICM three weeks ago)

Conservatives: 41% (down 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (no change)

Ukip: 4% (up 1)

Greens: 2% (no change)

Guardian

On those numbers it would be Tories 304 and Labour 276 so Tories would still be largest party surprisingly despite their abysmal few weeks. Labour would likely need SNP +LD+PC+Green support to form a government and have a majority in Parliament

SNP + LD should be enough, shouldn't it?

No, that gets to 322, Labour need 326 for a majority

OchEye

Ishmael_Z said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theresa on good form today

She sure as hell is - storming away.

I suspect they've kept this week's edition of Private Eye away from her.....