This thread is now approximately 4 hours old. In that time the EU has, on average sold us £2.7m more than we have sold them (£5bn a month/31/24).
Or to put it another way the entire annual GDP per head of 77 Britons has been spent to keep citizens of the EU in their jobs. I am sure the thank you cards are in the post as they go to work this Monday morning, work that might not exist if it was not for their right to trade freely with the UK.
Many economists will tell you that trade benefits the buyer, who has something s/he would otherwise not have access to at that price. The seller can always find another customer.
Trade benefits buyers and sellers as long as it is voluntary.
Edit - on average/overall etc. Obviously it's possible to make a bad trade.
If May does stand down and Green is not able to succeed her for whatever reason, who becomes acting PM?
She would stay PM until a new one is elected, she would just step down as Tory leader until a new leader and hence a new PM, is elected
That would take us over the cliff edge though, wouldn't it, as May would be a complete lame duck with a one way ticket out of power. There would be at least a two or three month inter-regnum, which would take us to the spring of 2018. On that basis, it seems inconceivable that she will go until there is more certainty in the negotiations with the EU27.
This thread is now approximately 4 hours old. In that time the EU has, on average sold us £2.7m more than we have sold them (£5bn a month/31/24).
Or to put it another way the entire annual GDP per head of 77 Britons has been spent to keep citizens of the EU in their jobs. I am sure the thank you cards are in the post as they go to work this Monday morning, work that might not exist if it was not for their right to trade freely with the UK.
Many economists will tell you that trade benefits the buyer, who has something s/he would otherwise not have access to at that price. The seller can always find another customer.
Always ? Is that as in always-in-every-case ? Working in manufacturing must be piss-easy then. I had no idea.
It was an argument made by an economist a few months back when the subject was again in the news that I am remembering. It goes back to the case made for free trade by Adam Smith and Ricardo - essentially that trade allows a country to access more efficient/economic production of the good from elsewhere in the world - quotes from the aforementioned, respectively:
“If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry, employed in a way in which we have some advantage.”
“Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole.”
I am not an expert, but it does appear that the theory rests upon a country having some other activity that is competitive to redeploy the resources toward.
The key takeaway from the article as I remember it was that the points being made by some leavers about trade were overly simplistic.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
“If there are places where the role of the court will make it better or easier for us to have the right relationship in the future I would be open to that.”
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
This thread is now approximately 4 hours old. In that time the EU has, on average sold us £2.7m more than we have sold them (£5bn a month/31/24).
Or to put it another way the entire annual GDP per head of 77 Britons has been spent to keep citizens of the EU in their jobs. I am sure the thank you cards are in the post as they go to work this Monday morning, work that might not exist if it was not for their right to trade freely with the UK.
Many economists will tell you that trade benefits the buyer, who has something s/he would otherwise not have access to at that price. The seller can always find another customer.
Always ? Is that as in always-in-every-case ? Working in manufacturing must be piss-easy then. I had no idea.
It was an argument made by an economist a few months back when the subject was again in the news that I am remembering. It goes back to the case made for free trade by Adam Smith and Ricardo - essentially that trade allows a country to access more efficient/economic production of the good from elsewhere in the world - quotes from the aforementioned, respectively:
“If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry, employed in a way in which we have some advantage.”
“Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole.”
I am not an expert, but it does appear that the theory rests upon a country having some other activity that is competitive to redeploy the resources toward.
The key takeaway from the article as I remember it was that the points being made by some leavers about trade were overly simplistic.
Actually the theory of comparative advantage is even stronger in that even if one country is better than another country at producing all goods, it will still be beneficial for them to trade.
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
Thank you. It was suggested last night that in my recovery period I should aim for 20,000 posts rather than the modest 10,000 but that will depend whether Brexit etc are resolved by the end of this month
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
-----
@Cyclefree: My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
This thread is now approximately 4 hours old. In that time the EU has, on average sold us £2.7m more than we have sold them (£5bn a month/31/24).
Or to put it another way the entire annual GDP per head of 77 Britons has been spent to keep citizens of the EU in their jobs. I am sure the thank you cards are in the post as they go to work this Monday morning, work that might not exist if it was not for their right to trade freely with the UK.
It hasn’t been established that Green “lied”. Quick claimed porn had been on “Green’s” computer. It was an “office” computer and the police say it’s impossible to tell who accessed it. If they didn’t tell Green about it, how is he supposed to know about it?
I did not know they had no personal log in requirements to their office computers.Was that the situation back then ? Seems very lackadaisical if so.
On a point of fact, Commons computers do require a personal login. That doesn't mean that owners of Commons IDs don't lend them, though they shouldn't, and of course MPs's staff have their own IDs. It would be unusual for staff to use the MP's computer, even with their own ID, but I suppose they might. It's all a bit nebulous, frankly, and I think only Green's ferocious reaction has given it any legs at all. I don't think this should lead to any consequences.
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Yes I agree. However, in 1973 they were dragging me out of bed the next day and it was very uncomfortable. They persisted despite my protestations for days but the irony was that a doctor in the next door bed refused to be cajooled ( as he was a doctor and knew best) only for him to suffer a deep vein thrombosis.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
-----
@Cyclefree: My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
If May does stand down and Green is not able to succeed her for whatever reason, who becomes acting PM?
She would stay PM until a new one is elected, she would just step down as Tory leader until a new leader and hence a new PM, is elected
That would take us over the cliff edge though, wouldn't it, as May would be a complete lame duck with a one way ticket out of power. There would be at least a two or three month inter-regnum, which would take us to the spring of 2018. On that basis, it seems inconceivable that she will go until there is more certainty in the negotiations with the EU27.
Probably but the scenario was based on her only staying PM for the 3 months or so of a Tory leadership election
None the less, it cannot fairly be claimed, if one looks back at the story of the negotiation to date, that the Government has been driven off its negotiating fundamentals: leaving the EU by the end of March, 2019; quitting the jurisdiction of the ECJ; taking back control of our borders; ending Single Market membership, and ending Customs Union membership (currently the subject of another push by the EU27 and Commission over the Irish border). Furthermore, our media is not set up to probe the differences and divisions among our negotiating partners, which are no less real for not being adequately covered. Certainly, there are aspects of the strategy that should have been handled more deftly, such as the future of EU nationals in Britain, but its essence remains intact – however much a small minority of Conservative MPs, and others, might wish it to be otherwise.
' “If there are places where the role of the court will make it better or easier for us to have the right relationship in the future I would be open to that.”
Makes sense to me. '
I've read it several times and still not quite sure what he's saying. Is it ...
(a) If they find in our favour, we will accept it. (b) if they find against us, we will accept it, and do what they want so as to gain goodwill.
How is that different to saying we will accept the decisions of a foreign court?
Mr G, Best wishes. Hopefully, you'll soon be back doing backward somersaults.
“If there are places where the role of the court will make it better or easier for us to have the right relationship in the future I would be open to that.”
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Damian Green appeared to drop his claim that there was never any porn on his seized computers yesterday and instead reiterated that police had never told him about the discovery.
Mr Green, the first secretary of state, said a week ago that allegations that there was pornography on a computer seized from his office nine years ago were false and completely untrue.
However, since Sir Paul Stephenson, the Metropolitan Police commissioner between 2009 and 2011, revealed at the weekend that he had also been told about the claims, Mr Green has not repeated his original denial.
In a public sector office , you would be toast for having porn on your own work computer accessed and logged in by yourself.However this is not a normal public sector workplace.Hard to understand why Damian Green was so adamant there was no such material on there.Surely he should have said not to his knowledge.
If they were saying it was "his" computer, he should be able to confirm it was not "his" porn....
I'd hope we can all agree that politicised coppers with a grudge should expect a greater degree of scrutiny - and skepticism - than what they say being judged on a balance of probabilities.
If I were in Green's position, I'd be massively pissed off. A raid occurred, aimed at an MP, in the Palace of Westminster. The background to that raid stinks, frankly. The copper undertaking the raid later gets discredited, has to leave the Force over another matter, and then embarks on a grudge against a political party. The party of that MP. For which he later has to apologise.
Then, years later, we learn something was allegedly found in that raid (something which would not be criminal, but would be politically embarrassing). And the MP was not told about it. But it then comes out at a time when it appears his dismaissal is trying to be engineered, as part of an unrelated press campaign (aka a witch-hunt) about sexual harrassment by MPs.
I'm not sure massively pissed off covers how I'd feel.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
' “If there are places where the role of the court will make it better or easier for us to have the right relationship in the future I would be open to that.”
Makes sense to me. '
I've read it several times and still not quite sure what he's saying. Is it ...
(a) If they find in our favour, we will accept it. (b) if they find against us, we will accept it, and do what they want so as to gain goodwill.
How is that different to saying we will accept the decisions of a foreign court?
Mr G, Best wishes. Hopefully, you'll soon be back doing backward somersaults.
A bit like Labour when it comes to the EU.
Thanks for your wishes. The one and only time I did a backward somersault was when George Best scored in extra time in the 1968 European cup final and I forgot I was sitting in a rocking chair !!
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
-----
@Cyclefree: My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Yes I agree. However, in 1973 they were dragging me out of bed the next day and it was very uncomfortable. They persisted despite my protestations for days but the irony was that a doctor in the next door bed refused to be cajooled ( as he was a doctor and knew best) only for him to suffer a deep vein thrombosis.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
There's a deal here. No Corbyn for no Brexit. But that would be too clever by half.
The Labour membership and the UK electorate would also have to agree
The Tories would lose their UKIP faction and gain sensible people like me., some of whom come from Labour. They would need to keep their vote numbers stable while reducing Labour ones more. It's numerically feasible, although things will never be as tidy as that.
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Yes I agree. However, in 1973 they were dragging me out of bed the next day and it was very uncomfortable. They persisted despite my protestations for days but the irony was that a doctor in the next door bed refused to be cajooled ( as he was a doctor and knew best) only for him to suffer a deep vein thrombosis.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
Good luck from me too MrG
Thank you - sure there will still be plenty to post on
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
-----
@Cyclefree: My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
+10 000 !
+1
Get well soon Big-G. I hope it all goes smoothly
Thanks Beverley - hope the Irish border problem is resolved to everyone's benefit
Surely it depends on who the new leader is and how well they get on.
For example, will the DUP and JRM hit it off?
I'd have thought that the DUP would love JRM. His views are pretty similar to theirs on most things, it seems, except as they relate to the body of Christ during mass.
I saw him the other day being interviewed. He is very good at answering questions and in critiquing what the "other side" has to say. Where I think he might fall down heavily is in expressing his own views. He is an uncompromising right winger and would struggle to hide that or wrap it up in the kind of language that would not scare away a lot of voters.
Unless the DUP have mellowed a lot, then I have no doubt that to them, JRM is a papist, a soldier of Rome and not to be trusted.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
Damian Green appeared to drop his claim that there was never any porn on his seized computers yesterday and instead reiterated that police had never told him about the discovery.
Mr Green, the first secretary of state, said a week ago that allegations that there was pornography on a computer seized from his office nine years ago were false and completely untrue.
However, since Sir Paul Stephenson, the Metropolitan Police commissioner between 2009 and 2011, revealed at the weekend that he had also been told about the claims, Mr Green has not repeated his original denial.
In a public sector office , you would be toast for having porn on your own work computer accessed and logged in by yourself.However this is not a normal public sector workplace.Hard to understand why Damian Green was so adamant there was no such material on there.Surely he should have said not to his knowledge.
If they were saying it was "his" computer, he should be able to confirm it was not "his" porn....
I'd hope we can all agree that politicised coppers with a grudge should expect a greater degree of scrutiny - and skepticism - than what they say being judged on a balance of probabilities.
If I were in Green's position, I'd be massively pissed off. A raid occurred, aimed at an MP, in the Palace of Westminster. The background to that raid stinks, frankly. The copper undertaking the raid later gets discredited, has to leave the Force over another matter, and then embarks on a grudge against a political party. The party of that MP. For which he later has to apologise.
Then, years later, we learn something was allegedly found in that raid (something which would not be criminal, but would be politically embarrassing). And the MP was not told about it. But it then comes out at a time when it appears his dismaissal is trying to be engineered, as part of an unrelated press campaign (aka a witch-hunt) about sexual harrassment by MPs.
I'm not sure massively pissed off covers how I'd feel.
And when Green does not repeat his denial verbatim the newspaper flogging it’s very lame horse leaps on this as “backing off”......
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Last night I expressed the hope that I may be able to pen my 10,000 post following my bi lateral hernia surgery two weeks today.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
-----
@Cyclefree: My very best wishes to you. I hope all goes well, the recovery is speedy and you are back here commenting asap.
+10 000 !
+1
Get well soon Big-G. I hope it all goes smoothly
Thanks Beverley - hope the Irish border problem is resolved to everyone's benefit
It was suggested last night that in my recovery period I should aim for 20,000 posts rather than the modest 10,000 but that will depend whether Brexit etc are resolved by the end of this month
You could always stop at 9489 which is (approx) Pi ^ 8 and is only about 30 posts away
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Starmer struggling on Corbyn receiving money from Iran.
It does raise the issue as to when a possible PM has been paid money by a foreign power or it's state sponsored media.
Also has Corbyn been challenged on his connections with Iran and his meetings,
Seems as ever that Guido had info on this
If this had been Trump and RT, my god the likes of CNN and BBC would have gone into meltdown.
Corbyn should get the blame for her still being in an Iranian jail. Why has he not used his undoubted sway with Tehran? Is it because he would rather see her languish and Boris lose his job?
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Yes I agree. However, in 1973 they were dragging me out of bed the next day and it was very uncomfortable. They persisted despite my protestations for days but the irony was that a doctor in the next door bed refused to be cajooled ( as he was a doctor and knew best) only for him to suffer a deep vein thrombosis.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
Good luck from me too MrG
Thank you - sure there will still be plenty to post on
Best wishes Big G and look forward to your flood of posts during recovery.
Thank you - I did have a repair in 1973 but it is beginning to fail and also a problem on the other side. I do remember the 1973 op largely as I was in hospital for 10 days whereas in two weeks it is a day operation.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
The approach to hernia operations has changed dramatically since then. The traditional view that you need to rest up after such an operation has changed and now every attempt is (should be) made to get the patient physically active as soon as possible after the op. Being able to send people home early is a spin off benefit for the hospital, and the American private chain that pioneered the new approach made a lot of money out of it.
Yes I agree. However, in 1973 they were dragging me out of bed the next day and it was very uncomfortable. They persisted despite my protestations for days but the irony was that a doctor in the next door bed refused to be cajooled ( as he was a doctor and knew best) only for him to suffer a deep vein thrombosis.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
Good luck from me too MrG
Thank you - sure there will still be plenty to post on
Best wishes Big G and look forward to your flood of posts during recovery.
As Bloomberg noted, it’s virtually impossible for the UK to meet the EU’s latest demands on the Irish border, which was almost certainly the point.
The EU’s demands on Ireland in the memo are all but impossible for Britain, unless the whole U.K. stays in the customs union, which Prime Minister Theresa May has ruled out. Allowing Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union could mean putting a border between it and mainland Britain. That’s unthinkable for the U.K., and more so at a time when the Conservative government is propped up by the pro-U.K. Democratic Unionist Party from Northern Ireland. The DUP would quit before accepting a border in the Irish Sea.
“We recognize the solutions to the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland must respect the integrity of the EU single market and customs union,” Davis’s department said in response. “But they must also respect the integrity of the United Kingdom.”
Thanks so much. Hope TM starts getting some good luck for a change.
She is meeting European and UK business leaders in no 10 today and this must open a window of opportunity for her to persuade them to put equal pressure on the EU to resolve issues and move onto trade
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Which is also how we know that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are not forgeries. Numpty.
Is it also the case that 97% of porn scientists believe that there was pornography on the computer?
You're welcome to believe the more complicated explanations, but I do think that will usually make you numptier.
Yes, that works well for the Protocols, and the Dreyfus affair, does it not? And any case where there is a real possibility of fabrication of evidence. In the present case, the competing explanations are actually of the same order of complexity: Green put it there, or someone else put it there. Where are the additional entities in theory b?
"More importantly, the police have never suggested to me that improper material was found on my parliamentary computer, nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed.
"The allegations about the material and computer, now nine years old, are false, disreputable political smears from a discredited police officer acting in flagrant breach of his duty to keep the details of police investigations confidential, and amount to little more than an unscrupulous character assassination."
The Times running exactly what they ran yesterday in the Sunday Times.
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Which is also how we know that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are not forgeries. Numpty.
Is it also the case that 97% of porn scientists believe that there was pornography on the computer?
You're welcome to believe the more complicated explanations, but I do think that will usually make you numptier.
Yes, that works well for the Protocols, and the Dreyfus affair, does it not? And any case where there is a real possibility of fabrication of evidence. In the present case, the competing explanations are actually of the same order of complexity: Green put it there, or someone else put it there. Where are the additional entities in theory b?
Do you count yourself in that number? Remember all I posted was a link to an explanation of Occam's Razor. If you think that the simplest explanation is that the Police fitted up the Deputy PM then you are welcome to your opinion.
F1: missed this earlier, but Toro Rosso are on 53 points, Renault 49, and Haas 47. That's going to make the final race critical for those teams. Perhaps as much as tens of millions at stake for a few points.
Do you count yourself in that number? Remember all I posted was a link to an explanation of Occam's Razor. If you think that the simplest explanation is that the Police fitted up the Deputy PM then you are welcome to your opinion.
This needs to be seen not only in its own context, but also that of plebgate, where the police federation reps out-and out lied. This is not only a problem for politicians, it is a problem for the police themselves.
Thanks so much. Hope TM starts getting some good luck for a change.
She is meeting European and UK business leaders in no 10 today and this must open a window of opportunity for her to persuade them to put equal pressure on the EU to resolve issues and move onto trade
Sadly it looks increasingly like the EU doesn't want a deal. Barnier's latest demands/deadline is completely ridiculous and unreasonable.
Mr. L, Hillsborough is a fair point, stop and search less so. As stop and search has declined, crime has risen. Better for someone to be subject to a search than an acid or knife attack.
Thanks so much. Hope TM starts getting some good luck for a change.
She is meeting European and UK business leaders in no 10 today and this must open a window of opportunity for her to persuade them to put equal pressure on the EU to resolve issues and move onto trade
Your optimism regarding TMay is admirable but, I fear, sadly misplaced. I suspect when historians look back on this period they will view it as one of the most inept examples of government in our nation's history.
However, on a more positive note, we still have a world class health service and I wish you every good fortune with your op!
OGH discards the wild card - events, dear boy. And we have a lot of events at the moment.
Assume that another 8 Tory MPs enter adulthood and write their letters. The 22 declares a leadership contest, and within 24 hours it's abundantly clear that May doesn't have the support. At which point a motion of no confidence in Her Majesty's Government is presented to the house. We either have the spectacle of MPs saying on alternative days that they have no confidence in the leader of the Conservative Party then saying they have confidence in the Prime Minister.
Or the government loses the vote. For all that "because DUP" is used as the Tories firewall on here, they haven't had a penny yet, and Forster and her party have shown considerable political flexibility over the years as they see fit - they won't work with Corbyn apparently for 'supporting the IRA but were happy to work with the actual IRA and let a former brigade commander run schools...
So there is a clear scenario where in the midst of a leadership challenge the government loses a confidence vote. The FTPA then gives the Commons 14 days to pass a confidence vote in a government or an election is called. That could be fun...
I think that this is absolutely right: a change of leader might be enough to destabilise the situation and thus trigger an election.
However, it also needs to be said that the converse is not necessarily true: the lack of a change of leader doesn't means that the government stays (becomes?) 'strong and stable'. The kind of dear-boy-events you describe can also happen if there's not a leadership challenge. The government doesn't look exactly secure as it is: buffeted by Brexit, the PM's credibility shot to pieces, ministers going off-piste, and a minority government in the first place.
In the circumstances, I don't think we can be confident of any prediction. IMO the likelihood is that Theresa May staggers on from crisis to crisis, but the butterfly might flap its wings anytime.
Thanks so much. Hope TM starts getting some good luck for a change.
She is meeting European and UK business leaders in no 10 today and this must open a window of opportunity for her to persuade them to put equal pressure on the EU to resolve issues and move onto trade
Your optimism regarding TMay is admirable but, I fear, sadly misplaced. I suspect when historians look back on this period they will view it as one of the most inept examples of government in our nation's history.
However, on a more positive note, we still have a world class health service and I wish you every good fortune with your op!
I agree about historians likely view but it will almost certainly condemn all politicians on all sides to singularly fail to come together in the nations interest. I am sure history will be very unkind to TM but she has made some big mistakes and unless she is able to resolve Brexit she will not be able to recover her previous reputation
Mr. L, Hillsborough is a fair point, stop and search less so. As stop and search has declined, crime has risen. Better for someone to be subject to a search than an acid or knife attack.
Correlation doesn’t imply causation.
We’re at 2002 levels of stop and search but not 2002 levels of crime.
Perhaps but there is an argument for saying it would have been better for the Tories had Kinnock become PM in 1992
Possibly. I distinctly remember that the first thing Kinnock did after losing was to get a letter off to the Times criticising the Major government's ERM policy. He seems to have foreseen the problem that later wrecked the Tories' reputation for economic competence. I think it is entirely plausible that he would have avoided that pitfall.
On 3 April 2016, members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard arrested her at the Imam Khomeini Airport as she and daughter were about to board a flight back to the UK. Her daughter's British passport was confiscated during the arrest, and the 3-year-old remains in Iran under the care of her maternal grandparents.
The exact reason for her arrest was initially unclear, though according to Amnesty International it is believed related to the 2014 imprisonment of several Iranian technology news website employees. Zaghari-Ratcliffe used to work for the BBC Media Action international charitable project, which is linked to a BBC training course offered to Iranian journalists, some of who were convicted for participating in the foreign training course in 2014.
On 10 September 2016, she was sentenced to five years in prison "for allegedly plotting to topple the Iranian regime."
I understand she has dual citizenship - UK and Iranian.
I also understand this complicates the situation in diplomatic terms
Boris is Boris has caught up with him and it has probably cost him any chance of leadership.
However, the issue is being used politically by remainers to get him removed as they see him as a threat to their campaign to stay in Europe
Naah. Most arguments are not really about what they are ostensibly about, but this one is. Boris is a c-nt and should be sacked, is the beginning and end of it, and I voted remain but have zero tolerance for any plan to scupper the referendum result.
It's all about getting people to talk about *when* we leave, not *if*.
Could be. But if the govt doesn't have the votes to pass it... that will be quite awkward for TM won't it? Or will it let her claim there really are saboteurs?
Comments
Edit - on average/overall etc.
Obviously it's possible to make a bad trade.
“If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry, employed in a way in which we have some advantage.”
“Under a system of perfectly free commerce, each country naturally devotes its capital and labour to such employments as are most beneficial to each. This pursuit of individual advantage is admirably connected with the universal good of the whole.”
I am not an expert, but it does appear that the theory rests upon a country having some other activity that is competitive to redeploy the resources toward.
The key takeaway from the article as I remember it was that the points being made by some leavers about trade were overly simplistic.
I just want to say I was so grateful to those of you who sent good wishes for my op and recovery.
This forum has a quality that is often overlooked by intense partisan debate but basically most posters are able to rise above and show great kindness.
I managed to catch up the posts from last night this morning and just want to say thank you to those I have not had the opportunity to do so.
Makes sense to me.
The main inconvenience is having 2 weeks plus without driving so some minor disruption for my odd occassion collecting my grandchildren from school
As I've said before, in theory I could send porn as an attachment to an e-mail to every Labour MP. Even if they deleted it, presumably Top Forensic Coppers could still, er, retrieve it from their recycle bin, open it - and lo, they have found porn on their computers.
Now, I'm not suggesting that a well dodgy cop could send such an e-mail for Top Forensic Coppers to find. And lo! they can say they found porn on a House of Commons computer in the office of a specific MP. But given events around that time, nothing much would surprise me.
Hamilton started the race, and he didn't finish on the podium. There's no justifiable reason for voiding the bet.
I intend being as active as possible but I cannot drive for between 2 and 4 weeks depending on medical approval so that means I may be able to add to my contributions to this forum
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/11/mays-eu-negotiating-position-has-been-more-consistent-than-some-claim-or-you-may-think.html
' “If there are places where the role of the court will make it better or easier for us to have the right relationship in the future I would be open to that.”
Makes sense to me. '
I've read it several times and still not quite sure what he's saying. Is it ...
(a) If they find in our favour, we will accept it.
(b) if they find against us, we will accept it, and do what they want so as to gain goodwill.
How is that different to saying we will accept the decisions of a foreign court?
Mr G, Best wishes. Hopefully, you'll soon be back doing backward somersaults.
A bit like Labour when it comes to the EU.
I'd hope we can all agree that politicised coppers with a grudge should expect a greater degree of scrutiny - and skepticism - than what they say being judged on a balance of probabilities.
If I were in Green's position, I'd be massively pissed off. A raid occurred, aimed at an MP, in the Palace of Westminster. The background to that raid stinks, frankly. The copper undertaking the raid later gets discredited, has to leave the Force over another matter, and then embarks on a grudge against a political party. The party of that MP. For which he later has to apologise.
Then, years later, we learn something was allegedly found in that raid (something which would not be criminal, but would be politically embarrassing). And the MP was not told about it. But it then comes out at a time when it appears his dismaissal is trying to be engineered, as part of an unrelated press campaign (aka a witch-hunt) about sexual harrassment by MPs.
I'm not sure massively pissed off covers how I'd feel.
Is it also the case that 97% of porn scientists believe that there was pornography on the computer?
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/nov/13/queensland-one-nation-leader-says-sorry-for-saying-girls-taught-to-use-dildos
It does raise the issue as to when a possible PM has been paid money by a foreign power or it's state sponsored media.
Also has Corbyn been challenged on his connections with Iran and his meetings,
Seems as ever that Guido had info on this
Like visiting Guido - so we don't have to!
You could always stop at 9489 which is (approx) Pi ^ 8 and is only about 30 posts away
(Tongue ever so slightly in cheek....)
The EU’s demands on Ireland in the memo are all but impossible for Britain, unless the whole U.K. stays in the customs union, which Prime Minister Theresa May has ruled out. Allowing Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union could mean putting a border between it and mainland Britain. That’s unthinkable for the U.K., and more so at a time when the Conservative government is propped up by the pro-U.K. Democratic Unionist Party from Northern Ireland. The DUP would quit before accepting a border in the Irish Sea.
“We recognize the solutions to the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland must respect the integrity of the EU single market and customs union,” Davis’s department said in response. “But they must also respect the integrity of the United Kingdom.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-10/eu-uses-sleazy-negotiating-tactics-extort-more-cash-brexit-talks
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/929690981019959297/photo/1
She is meeting European and UK business leaders in no 10 today and this must open a window of opportunity for her to persuade them to put equal pressure on the EU to resolve issues and move onto trade
morons on the internet don't know what Occam's Razor means.
http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171113/432861599332/puigdemont-posible-solucion-diferente-independencia-catalunya.html
Remember all I posted was a link to an explanation of Occam's Razor. If you think that the simplest explanation is that the Police fitted up the Deputy PM then you are welcome to your opinion.
https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/930016922804121600?s=17
He received £20,000 for appearing on Iranian state tv even after it had filmed and broadcast a torture victims confession
Agreed with a Press TV caller that Britains national broadcaster were 'Zionist liars'
Attended the regimes Al-Quds Day event calling for the 'destuction of Israel'
Claims Iran does not want nukes
And more.
He needs to answer these allegations
However, on a more positive note, we still have a world class health service and I wish you every good fortune with your op!
However, it also needs to be said that the converse is not necessarily true: the lack of a change of leader doesn't means that the government stays (becomes?) 'strong and stable'. The kind of dear-boy-events you describe can also happen if there's not a leadership challenge. The government doesn't look exactly secure as it is: buffeted by Brexit, the PM's credibility shot to pieces, ministers going off-piste, and a minority government in the first place.
In the circumstances, I don't think we can be confident of any prediction. IMO the likelihood is that Theresa May staggers on from crisis to crisis, but the butterfly might flap its wings anytime.
We’re at 2002 levels of stop and search but not 2002 levels of crime.
I think it's a dead cat.
It's all about getting people to talk about *when* we leave, not *if*.
I also understand this complicates the situation in diplomatic terms
Boris is Boris has caught up with him and it has probably cost him any chance of leadership.
However, the issue is being used politically by remainers to get him removed as they see him as a threat to their campaign to stay in Europe
On 3 April 2016, members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard arrested her at the Imam Khomeini Airport as she and daughter were about to board a flight back to the UK. Her daughter's British passport was confiscated during the arrest, and the 3-year-old remains in Iran under the care of her maternal grandparents.
The exact reason for her arrest was initially unclear, though according to Amnesty International it is believed related to the 2014 imprisonment of several Iranian technology news website employees. Zaghari-Ratcliffe used to work for the BBC Media Action international charitable project, which is linked to a BBC training course offered to Iranian journalists, some of who were convicted for participating in the foreign training course in 2014.
On 10 September 2016, she was sentenced to five years in prison "for allegedly plotting to topple the Iranian regime."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazanin_Zaghari-Ratcliffe
That Brexiteers will overlook his unsuitability for office because he supports the cause is telling
Former EDL leader Tommy Robinson attends far-right rally that called for a ‘Jew free’ Poland.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/former-edl-leader-tommy-robinson-attends-far-right-march-in-warsaw-where-demonstrators-called-for-a-jew-free-poland-1.447888
But if the govt doesn't have the votes to pass it... that will be quite awkward for TM won't it?
Or will it let her claim there really are saboteurs?