Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Although I'm very much with Clegg, Paddy and Ming on this I agree with you Corporeal that Cameron will in the long run not lose out too much from this episode. Miliband couldn't resist grabbing the headlines for the sake of the short term discomforting of the government and my opinion of him has dropped markedly as a result.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
Agreed. Obama has decided to follow Cameron's lead by seeking authorisation from Congress. This apparent delay in the US timetable may yet prove very lucky for David Cameron both politically and diplomatically, as well as very tricky and uncomfortable for Ed Miliband who has just publicly cut himself adrift from both the Government and American positions. Yet again, Miliband and his spinners have rushed into sticking two fingers up at the Americans and our special relationship yesterday for a bit of domestic party point scoring. And crucially before Obama announced his intentions, Miliband must be sitting with his face in his hands at his utter weakness and stupidity.
Christopher Meyer @SirSocks So, Obama takes the Cameron path. Fine speech, but high stakes gamble. How much influenced by the Westminster vote? Quite a lot, I'd say.
Obama speaking well - not sure his words will make comfortable reading for Labour.
He has folded same as wobbly Dave , two muppets shown up for what they are , blowhards.
Dave didn't wobble - the only wobbled was Miliband faced with up to 7 shadow cabinet resignations.
Felix, Dave is useless , he could not run a bath never mind win a vote. The man's incompetence is breathtaking to watch, he is a donkey of the first order and has surrounded himself with his chums who are of the same ilk. This is what happens when people are put in positions of power due to birth and patronage rather than talent.
Now that Obama is putting Syrian action to a vote in Congress, and given US public opinion is hardly gung-ho for war either (a poll yesterday had 50% opposed) and given too House Speaker Boehner is very sceptical, there must be at least a chance the House of Representatives could join the House of Commons in voting no
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
In Obama's speech I noted the words 'the UK our closest ally' and Cameron mentioned by name. We can can read the runes all we like but this is not going to be good for miliband in the long term. I doubt he will even be allowed to chase obama around the white house kitchen but is more likely to be thrown on the next Obama / Dave BBQ!
"WOMEN’S Institute members cannot give away a knitted village they spent the best part of a year painstakingly crafting for sick kids – because it is deemed a ‘health and safety’ risk.
Their impressive miniature creation – which boasts intircate houses, trees, animals, a church and even a duckpond and a beekeeper – was made with the intention of it being gifted to a children’s hospice or hospital to comfort poorly youngsters.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
In Obama's speech I noted the words 'the UK our closest ally' and Cameron mentioned by name. We can can read the runes all we like but this is not going to be good for miliband in the long term. I doubt he will even be allowed to chase obama around the white house kitchen but is more likely to be thrown on the next Obama / Dave BBQ!
Be a change not to have an ars* licker in charge then
In Obama's speech I noted the words 'the UK our closest ally' and Cameron mentioned by name. We can can read the runes all we like but this is not going to be good for miliband in the long term. I doubt he will even be allowed to chase obama around the white house kitchen but is more likely to be thrown on the next Obama / Dave BBQ!
Poor Dave he'll be cold shouldered and not invited round for a chat with Obama and Hilary - Dave Miliband that is.
Imagine you emigrate to the States to escape your back-stabbing shit kid brother and he screws it up for you from 3,000 miles away.
In Obama's speech I noted the words 'the UK our closest ally' and Cameron mentioned by name. We can can read the runes all we like but this is not going to be good for miliband in the long term. I doubt he will even be allowed to chase obama around the white house kitchen but is more likely to be thrown on the next Obama / Dave BBQ!
The only hope for Miliband now is to hide himself in a cubicle of the White House loos and hope to communicate with the President by glory hole.
Obama speaking well - not sure his words will make comfortable reading for Labour.
He has folded same as wobbly Dave , two muppets shown up for what they are , blowhards.
Dave didn't wobble - the only wobbled was Miliband faced with up to 7 shadow cabinet resignations.
Felix, Dave is useless , he could not run a bath never mind win a vote. The man's incompetence is breathtaking to watch, he is a donkey of the first order and has surrounded himself with his chums who are of the same ilk. This is what happens when people are put in positions of power due to birth and patronage rather than talent.
Although I'm firm on no intervention in Syria, it seems that Putin has Obo by the short hairs and a naturally hesitant and indecisive president has succumbed to Russian blackmail. This will weaken the US and Assad will be laughing in his bunker, leaving Americas arab allies scratching their collective head.
For Israel the question - if there ever was one - is answered: Israel can only rely on itself.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Obama speaking well - not sure his words will make comfortable reading for Labour.
He has folded same as wobbly Dave , two muppets shown up for what they are , blowhards.
Dave didn't wobble - the only wobbled was Miliband faced with up to 7 shadow cabinet resignations.
Felix, Dave is useless , he could not run a bath never mind win a vote. The man's incompetence is breathtaking to watch, he is a donkey of the first order and has surrounded himself with his chums who are of the same ilk. This is what happens when people are put in positions of power due to birth and patronage rather than talent.
Oh dear - envy is such an unpleasant trait.
LOL, I would set my sights higher than podgy Dave the chinless wonder if I was to envy anyone.
Ha! Looks like Obama is trying to find a way to have his hands tied as well now. For the points made umpteen times, intervention looks like a seriously bad option, very few are up for another 5-7 year mission in the ME.
It probably also means the UN report is not ironclad so he can't pre-empt it and get the missile campaign started in advance of its release.
As the UNSG's spokesman said the UN team which has just left Syria has no mandate from the UN to allocate blame for the atrocity. It will only attempt to verify that a chemical attack has been made through witness statements and chemical analysis of biological and environmental samples. It will be able to verify the chemicals used because as MSF said some neurotoxins were definitely used. Your comment about a report being not ironclad is meaningless.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Mr. Brooke
You missed the event of the year.
Manchester U defeating Brasenose College, Oxfotd on University Challenge.
Grandiose assured us it was a tactical concession.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Do you understand Obama wouldn't have done this without the events at Westminster?
Clueless.
You're arguing that Miliband has determined US Foreign Policy are you? Or that Camerons inability to get Justine Greening and some bloke out of a cupboard has done.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
I'd have settled for the fur malc ! The female was off limits for obvious reasons and the male had had visitor overload and was just refusing to do anything, so the Zoo gave him the day off. In the event we just made it a longer day round Edinburgh. I hadn't been there for years so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
Quite staggering. The british political leader most heavily lampooned as weak by the press since Michael Foot has just had the most tangible effect on US domestic politics since 1945.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Mr. Brooke
You missed the event of the year.
Manchester U defeating Brasenose College, Oxfotd on University Challenge.
Grandiose assured us it was a tactical concession.
An event which was repeated in the HoC - not a good week for the Oxonians Mr Pole.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
I'd have settled for the fur malc ! The female was off limits for obvious reasons and the male had had visitor overload and was just refusing to do anything, so the Zoo gave him the day off. In the event we just made it a longer day round Edinburgh. I hadn't been there for years so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
AveryLP Kerry was always pro-French and has French ancestry, had he been president in 2004 he would have been the most Francophile president since independence, Obama has no such ties and clearly was attempting to reassure the UK in his speech
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Do you understand Obama wouldn't have done this without the events at Westminster?
Clueless.
You're arguing that Miliband has determined US Foreign Policy are you? Or that Camerons inability to get Justine Greening and some bloke out of a cupboard has done.
Which is it?
ROFL
tim Miliband hasn't any policies of his own so HTF could he have any influence on the US policy on dogging let alone foreign policy ?
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
I'd have settled for the fur malc ! The female was off limits for obvious reasons and the male had had visitor overload and was just refusing to do anything, so the Zoo gave him the day off. In the event we just made it a longer day round Edinburgh. I hadn't been there for years so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
The Pandas are a real money spinner
Yup so closing it off will cost them, but they'll make it back if there are 4 pandas this time next year.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
I'd have settled for the fur malc ! The female was off limits for obvious reasons and the male had had visitor overload and was just refusing to do anything, so the Zoo gave him the day off. In the event we just made it a longer day round Edinburgh. I hadn't been there for years so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
It's a lot nicer now that all those tiresome festival people have gone for another year.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Alan, LOL , same here , when I went to see them they were snoring away in their beds , you could just see a bit of black fur.
I'd have settled for the fur malc ! The female was off limits for obvious reasons and the male had had visitor overload and was just refusing to do anything, so the Zoo gave him the day off. In the event we just made it a longer day round Edinburgh. I hadn't been there for years so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
It's a lot nicer now that all those tiresome festival people have gone for another year.
Next year you must make a point of meeting Roger :-)
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Do you understand Obama wouldn't have done this without the events at Westminster?
Clueless.
You're arguing that Miliband has determined US Foreign Policy are you? Or that Camerons inability to get Justine Greening and some bloke out of a cupboard has done.
Which is it?
Both of them - by accident.
It's all a bit like that film by the the "thick of it" people.
Obama speaking well - not sure his words will make comfortable reading for Labour.
He has folded same as wobbly Dave , two muppets shown up for what they are , blowhards.
Dave didn't wobble - the only wobbler was Miliband faced with up to 7 shadow cabinet resignations.
He did not wobble he collapsed he could have gone for another vote after the US had presented their case if he wanted to.
None of the 3 UK leaders were against intervention until after the first vote.
I must be a bit tired tonight so apologies but I'm not entirely clear what you mean.
The PM is a leader of a coalition goverment with a large majority, if he believes the case he can put it forward again.
He had no need to say that was the end of it after he lost the vote on Wednesday.
Are you suggesting he should have ignored the will of parliament - sounds like the EU approach to referenda results they don't like. Cameron is not perfect but I believe he is honourable and a democrat.
I think there are so many on here that are turning into Dan Hodges, obviously not as quick as him, as he only took him 40 minutes to turn the Cameron vote into a brilliant result for his hero and and absolute disaster for Miliband, and the PB Hodges have taken a few days, but it is getting just as bad.
I think the clear and obvious main outcome UK-politics wise from the shenanigans this week is that my bet on Yvette replacing Janus Miliband now looks even better value...
but then again I might have base reasons for that....
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Obama having lost his "fall guy - Cameron" now wants House of Rep.to take responsibility. He'll probably pop a few missiles, threaten more, feel good, and the situation won't change.
Benedict Brogan@benedictbrogan4m Not convinced public is impressed by Parl/Cong playing politics with int'l responsibilities. Keener sense of nat'l obligations than pols
Isabel Hardman@IsabelHardman35m Obama move will highlight the honourable miscalculation that Cameron made this week… and perhaps the political calculation by Miliband.
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges38m What's Ed Miliband's response to that.
Alanbrooke said Next year you must make a point of meeting Roger :-)
Hmm...They always say that you belong in Edinburgh when you can walk down the Royal Mile in August and no one even offers you a leaflet. I managed it many times this year.
I am actually quite jealous of the meetings in Dirty DIcks. A meeting of those on PB north of the border would be very welcome.
Obama wins either way. To those who favour bombing Syria [ unlike me ], he stands on the high moral ground. If he loses, he allowed democracy to decide.
More importantly he is effectively reducing US Presidential power to wage war. After all, the constitution says only Congress can wage war. However, successive Presidents have effectively ignored this. Just like in the UK, no future President or Prime Minister can go to a foreign adventure without democratic consent. Is that a bad thing ? That is what the founding fathers had proposed.
Twitter Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft 1h Cameron can emerge stronger (and Miliband weaker) after this week's drama. Time will tell if Cameron has learnt the lessons.
I think there are so many on here that are turning into Dan Hodges, obviously not as quick as him, as he only took him 40 minutes to turn the Cameron vote into a brilliant result for his hero and and absolute disaster for Miliband, and the PB Hodges have taken a few days, but it is getting just as bad.
It's not all 'black and white' on PB. Many posters of the right and the left are considering the good points of the other side.
While I think Miliband has got rid of the 'weak' label and on some measures performed well this week, it's the long term which is going to be more important. A leader of the opposition has got to be strategic, it may well be that Ed is, but it strikes me that both Ed and Dave to a certain extent thought short term this week.
It's important when a leader makes a verbal commitment for it to be followed through. Many agreements are bartered face to face rather than relying on written treaties; there just isn't the time to get things done otherwise. Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly.
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Twitter Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft 1h Cameron can emerge stronger (and Miliband weaker) after this week's drama. Time will tell if Cameron has learnt the lessons.
The Tories must be seriously spinning if they have to rely Lord A to come to his assistance.
Ed Miliband's day just got worse. Like Gordon Brown, he never learns that cheap short term party political tactics can end up having far longer term damaging consequences for those that engage in them.
"This suggests that those who tried to certify the special relationship dead probably need a refresher course in vital signs as it clearly isn’t headed for the mortuary, rather an acute unit (and Fraser explained why that assessment was wrong this morning). Perhaps it shows that Obama is aware of the trouble the US caused Cameron in initially setting out a tight timetable for strikes. But it also suggests he was impressed by the way the Prime Minister respected democracy in this country, even when that democratic process stung him.
But the President is not recalling Congress, which is not due back until 9 September. This gives him the time to roll the pitch in a way Cameron did not by rushing into recalling Parliament. So his move highlights an honourable miscalculation: Cameron was acting with the best intentions (even if you believe they were the wrong ones and that intervention will not help) but on a poor calculation. But perhaps his honourable miscalculation now looks a little more laudable than the political calculation of the Labour party."
Obama speaking well - not sure his words will make comfortable reading for Labour.
He has folded same as wobbly Dave , two muppets shown up for what they are , blowhards.
Dave didn't wobble - the only wobbler was Miliband faced with up to 7 shadow cabinet resignations.
He did not wobble he collapsed he could have gone for another vote after the US had presented their case if he wanted to.
None of the 3 UK leaders were against intervention until after the first vote.
I must be a bit tired tonight so apologies but I'm not entirely clear what you mean.
The PM is a leader of a coalition goverment with a large majority, if he believes the case he can put it forward again.
He had no need to say that was the end of it after he lost the vote on Wednesday.
Are you suggesting he should have ignored the will of parliament - sounds like the EU approach to referenda results they don't like. Cameron is not perfect but I believe he is honourable and a democrat.
It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case.
Many on here believe Kerry and Obama have presented a stronger case. It is hard to understand this special relationship, in why they were not working together to win the vote on Wednesday, if it was so crucial for democracy and the rule of international law.
What a bizarre decision by Obama...He`s a real chicken!Unlike Cameron he has the powers yet decides to go to Congress thereby avoiding responsibility for his actions!
Military force not "time sensitive" and Obama will seek congressional approval.
So what the hell was the Polzeath Porpoise doing half-recalling Parliament?
Strangely, you seem to be incapable of grasping the concepts of cause and effect. Miliband's stupid actions meant Cameron couldn't deliver what they had agreed. This has placed Obama on a sticky wicket.
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
Well at least they will suffer a few hundred less missiles now that these two blowhards have been shown up for what they are
malc, just back from a week in the Borders \ Northumberland excellent weater and really lovely scenery. Reminds me why I don't want Scotland to become a foreign country ;-)
Alan , Glad to hear you had a good time. We will never be foreigners. Have to say given the incompetence in Westminster last week who would seriously want them running the country and deciding your families future.
I missed all that, I was too busy getting pissed off at Edinburgh Zoo where the sodding pandas went on strike the day I was booked to see them. Bloody communists ! :-)
Funnily enough fitalass Mrs Brooke has now moved the North of Scotland much higher up the agenda, she really enjoyed the scenery and the journey up to Scotland wasn't bad as we threw in lots of stops ( York on the way up Harrogate on the way down ). So if I can just find a way round the midges .... ;-)
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of blindsided fanatics making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
If there's a battle going on inside the US administration then the decision helped the non-intervention side.
Ed Miliband's day just got worse. Like Gordon Brown, he never learns that cheap short term party political tactics can end up having far longer term damaging consequences for those that engage in them.
"This suggests that those who tried to certify the special relationship dead probably need a refresher course in vital signs as it clearly isn’t headed for the mortuary, rather an acute unit (and Fraser explained why that assessment was wrong this morning). Perhaps it shows that Obama is aware of the trouble the US caused Cameron in initially setting out a tight timetable for strikes. But it also suggests he was impressed by the way the Prime Minister respected democracy in this country, even when that democratic process stung him.
But the President is not recalling Congress, which is not due back until 9 September. This gives him the time to roll the pitch in a way Cameron did not by rushing into recalling Parliament. So his move highlights an honourable miscalculation: Cameron was acting with the best intentions (even if you believe they were the wrong ones and that intervention will not help) but on a poor calculation. But perhaps his honourable miscalculation now looks a little more laudable than the political calculation of the Labour party."
And, how did Miliband's dat get worse ? It is because of Cameron's defeat that this decision was taken by Obama. "Just in case" is the decisive policy !
"Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly."...so who's word do we take on this "apparently"? Dan Hodges and other right wing bloggers?
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Quite unfair - If Cameron had said we'll be back next week to vote again - you'd have been the first in the queue to condemn him. He lost the vote and accepted the result - that's democracy.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of blindsided fanatics making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
It's just the people who get elections wrong. They convinced themselves that everything was good news for Cameron before the last election and then got confused when all their expectations were blown apart when the results came in
Which planet are these people on?How the hell is Obama seeking prior approval from Congress supposed to be bad news for Miliband?
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Quite unfair - If Cameron had said we'll be back next week to vote again - you'd have been the first in the queue to condemn him. He lost the vote and accepted the result - that's democracy.
"He lost the vote" - You are so off message....he actually won, have you not read the article and the posts below. Get with it....Cameron was the winner and Miliband the loser.
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Tim,
I can only conclude that as well, he wanted to rush it all through parliament to a timetable he must have been aware off.
Obviously that timetable was not as paramount as he thought , as we can see from the whitehouse this evening. This special relationship has been a spectacular balls up this week in presenting its case in some sort of rational order.
"Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly."...so who's word do we take on this "apparently"? Dan Hodge s and other right wing bloggers?
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
Do Labour supporters never quote Toynbee , the New Statesman or the Guardian??
"Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly."...so who's word do we take on this "apparently"? Dan Hodge s and other right wing bloggers?
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
Do Labour supporters never quote Toynbee , the New Statesman or the Guardian??
I don't know about the others but I don't, it kills your argument as you are only posting people who everyone knows what they are going to say. Whatever next, is one of them going to quote a Hodges tribute to Cameron.......oh, wait there
"But the President is not recalling Congress, which is not due back until 9 September. This gives him the time to roll the pitch in a way Cameron did not by rushing into recalling Parliament."
Precisely. Dave wanted the Action PM headlines, Obama is not making such a crass mistake.
Obama is playing for time.
The G20 in St Petersburg is on the 5-6 September so Congress returning on the 9 September is perfect timing to apply maximum pressure on Russia to come up with a last minute compromise agreement.
Hitting Syria before the G20 would blow the meeting up as well as Syrian military assets.
Of course, if Assad repeats his use of CW in the interim he can expect an immediate strike now it has Presidential authorisation.
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Quite unfair - If Cameron had said we'll be back next week to vote again - you'd have been the first in the queue to condemn him. He lost the vote and accepted the result - that's democracy.
"He lost the vote" - You are so off message....he actually won, have you not read the article and the posts below. Get with it....Cameron was the winner and Miliband the loser.
I'm not a member of a political party and it's you who seem worried that supporters of Cameron's position are posting as such. I stated earlier he is not perfect and has made mistakes this week but to play with an old quotation ' a week is a very short time in politics' - let's see how this plays out.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
Obama is teaching Dave how to do things properly. He wins both ways.
There was an NBC poll out on Friday showing that 79% of the US public thought that Obama should not launch missiles without Congress' approval. In addition, he has received letters from both the GOP and the Democratic congressional caucuses demanding that he both inform them of the strategy behind missile attacks and seek their consent. Those events, coupled with the events in Westminster, are what has forced Obama to go the Congressional route, not his sense of propriety.
"One of the destroyed vessels—the U.S. Liberty ship John Harvey—had been carrying a secret cargo of 2,000 M47A1 mustard gas bombs, each holding 60–70 lb (27–32 kg) of the agent."
"Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly."...so who's word do we take on this "apparently"? Dan Hodge s and other right wing bloggers?
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
Do Labour supporters never quote Toynbee , the New Statesman or the Guardian??
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Quite unfair - If Cameron had said we'll be back next week to vote again - you'd have been the first in the queue to condemn him. He lost the vote and accepted the result - that's democracy.
The vote came before the evidence For Cameron to claim that took the issue off the table no matter what evidence is shown was a bizarre decision.
If only he'd known the numbers on his own side he could've just pulled the vote or supported Labours amendment, instead he tied his hands.
Bullshit, tim.
The same evidence announced by Kerry in his speech yesterday was made available to Ed Miliband on the Tuesday before the vote. Miliband would also have been given access to additional classified information and any British intelligence not shared with the US (if any).
Miliband has absolutely no grounds on which to claim there was insufficient evidence.
His mind wasn't on the evidence though. It was on domestic political gain and averting shadow cabinet resignations.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
HAHAHAHA - Another one...Fraser Nelson....are we going for the full house.....has anyone got anything from any of the Sun journo's? Surely a quote from that independent columnist Trevor Kavanagh explaining how David Cameron is now in the strongest political shape of his life must be forthcoming.
The world's strongmen are being ostentatiously democratic.
First Cameron goes to Parliament, then Putin's suggests a G20 discussion and then Obama goes to Congress. Hollande will look dictatorial if he doesn't follow suit. And China has been a bit quiet. But apart from that, these are all good precedents as far as I'm concerned.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
HAHAHAHA - Another one...Fraser Nelson....are we going for the full house.....has anyone got anything from any of the Sun journo's? Surely a quote from that independent columnist Trevor Kavanagh explaining how David Cameron is now in the strongest political shape of his life must be forthcoming.
Oh yeah,the Sun editorial this morning savaged Miliband as `the real villain`.They are desperate for Dave to win a second term but unfortunately he keeps f...... up.
"Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly."...so who's word do we take on this "apparently"? Dan Hodge s and other right wing bloggers?
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
Do Labour supporters never quote Toynbee , the New Statesman or the Guardian??
Occasionally. But not as pathologically as the lower league PB Tories repetitvely post the same Dan Hodges piece over and over again. 8 times on one thread for the same piece last week I think, and always the least able posters.
Oooh I think you're telling porkies there - I lurk more than I post and when it comes to repetitive posting I think you're right up there. But I have no problem with it on either side.
"One of the destroyed vessels—the U.S. Liberty ship John Harvey—had been carrying a secret cargo of 2,000 M47A1 mustard gas bombs, each holding 60–70 lb (27–32 kg) of the agent."
Weird thing. Apparently the Germans bombing a supply ship they didn't know was full of mustard gas bombs led to the discovery of chemotherapy.
Also, it's been apparent since early August that the ~6pt lead has solidified but not moved on. Cameron would be pleased to keep it that way from Syria.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
HAHAHAHA - Another one...Fraser Nelson....are we going for the full house.....has anyone got anything from any of the Sun journo's? Surely a quote from that independent columnist Trevor Kavanagh explaining how David Cameron is now in the strongest political shape of his life must be forthcoming.
I think you may be new to this game - Nelson is a Conservative but he has been often highly critical of Cameron.
"It was an option not to make such an instant reaction to the result. He then could have waited until the US presented its case."
That was a bizarre decision made in a fit of pique.
Quite unfair - If Cameron had said we'll be back next week to vote again - you'd have been the first in the queue to condemn him. He lost the vote and accepted the result - that's democracy.
The vote came before the evidence For Cameron to claim that took the issue off the table no matter what evidence is shown was a bizarre decision.
If only he'd known the numbers on his own side he could've just pulled the vote or supported Labours amendment, instead he tied his hands.
"The vote came before the evidence". MSF have said that neurotoxins were used. The UN inspectors have no mandate to allocate blame for the use of the toxins. The intelligence points to the Assad regime as responsible. The inspectors' report will make no difference to the current conclusions as to the factual use of CW and culpability.
Survation @Survation 11m Survation for The Mail on Sunday - Voting Intention (Change since August 4th) CON 29% (+1) LAB 37% (+1) UKIP 17% (-1) LD 11% (NC) AP 7% (NC)
All the summer hysteria from the PB Tories and no movement.
Labours percentage yet again within the Fort Knox style bracket. The rest is just noise.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
HAHAHAHA - Another one...Fraser Nelson....are we going for the full house.....has anyone got anything from any of the Sun journo's? Surely a quote from that independent columnist Trevor Kavanagh explaining how David Cameron is now in the strongest political shape of his life must be forthcoming.
Oh yeah,the Sun editorial this morning savaged Miliband as `the real villain`.They are desperate for Dave to win a second term but unfortunately he keeps f...... up.
Benedict Brogan@benedictbrogan4m Not convinced public is impressed by Parl/Cong playing politics with int'l responsibilities. Keener sense of nat'l obligations than pols
What planet is Brogan on? The public are massively opposed to intervention as shown by all the polls.
And how the hell is Obama`s decision got anything to do with Miliband.PB gets worse everyday with a bunch of posters wearing blinders making the most bizarre comments ever,an example being the author of this thread who seems to think the glass is always half-full.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
HAHAHAHA - Another one...Fraser Nelson....are we going for the full house.....has anyone got anything from any of the Sun journo's? Surely a quote from that independent columnist Trevor Kavanagh explaining how David Cameron is now in the strongest political shape of his life must be forthcoming.
I think you may be new to this game - Nelson is a Conservative but he has been often highly critical of Cameron.
"Nelson is a Conservative", that's all that matters. So when people say "Ed's day just got worse" it should have read...."Yet another Conservative supporter thinks Cameron done well from Thursday night and has wrote an article/made a quote on Twitter about it".
Comments
The long-term consequences of all this have yet to be played out, and it is the Syrian people who will suffer.
The laughable thing about your keyboard-warrior antics is that you were the one asking for parliament to be recalled earlier in the week ...
BBC Propaganda @BBCPropaganda
RT @Ed_Miliband Hey, @Obama, why did you unfollow me?
So, Obama takes the Cameron path. Fine speech, but high stakes gamble. How much influenced by the Westminster vote? Quite a lot, I'd say.
Clueless.
"WOMEN’S Institute members cannot give away a knitted village they spent the best part of a year painstakingly crafting for sick kids – because it is deemed a ‘health and safety’ risk.
Their impressive miniature creation – which boasts intircate houses, trees, animals, a church and even a duckpond and a beekeeper – was made with the intention of it being gifted to a children’s hospice or hospital to comfort poorly youngsters.
But the 6ft by 4ft textile settlement, has been turned away because the soft materials it is made from cannot be sterilised. Around 30 members of Sidford WI, most of them grandmothers, chipped in to make the scene from wool and cardboard during the winter months..." http://www.sidmouthherald.co.uk/news/news/wi_can_t_give_away_knitted_village_due_to_health_and_safety_1_2360240
'Do you understand Obama wouldn't have done this without the events at Westminster?
Clueless or just dim Tim?
Imagine you emigrate to the States to escape your back-stabbing shit kid brother and he screws it up for you from 3,000 miles away.
For Israel the question - if there ever was one - is answered: Israel can only rely on itself.
None of the 3 UK leaders were against intervention until after the first vote.
You missed the event of the year.
Manchester U defeating Brasenose College, Oxfotd on University Challenge.
Grandiose assured us it was a tactical concession.
Cameron says he understands and supports Obama position on Syria. Unstated: unlike Miliband.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTBEKocCcAAR-D2.jpg:large
so it was nice to walk around and take in the sights.
put it forward again.
He had no need to say that was the end of it after he lost the vote on Wednesday.
tim Miliband hasn't any policies of his own so HTF could he have any influence on the US policy on dogging let alone foreign policy ?
Next year you must make a point of meeting Roger :-)
It's all a bit like that film by the the "thick of it" people.
but then again I might have base reasons for that....
Nick Robinson@bbcnickrobinson3m
Would @Ed_Miliband and @DAlexanderMP vote for military action in Syria if Congress supports, UN inspectors have reported, UNSC discussed?
Benedict Brogan@benedictbrogan4m
Not convinced public is impressed by Parl/Cong playing politics with int'l responsibilities. Keener sense of nat'l obligations than pols
Isabel Hardman@IsabelHardman35m
Obama move will highlight the honourable miscalculation that Cameron made this week… and perhaps the political calculation by Miliband.
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges38m
What's Ed Miliband's response to that.
What's Ed Miliband's response to that"
HAHAHAHA as I was saying.
Next year you must make a point of meeting Roger :-)
Hmm...They always say that you belong in Edinburgh when you can walk down the Royal Mile in August and no one even offers you a leaflet. I managed it many times this year.
I am actually quite jealous of the meetings in Dirty DIcks. A meeting of those on PB north of the border would be very welcome.
More importantly he is effectively reducing US Presidential power to wage war. After all, the constitution says only Congress can wage war. However, successive Presidents have effectively ignored this. Just like in the UK, no future President or Prime Minister can go to a foreign adventure without democratic consent. Is that a bad thing ? That is what the founding fathers had proposed.
Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft 1h
Cameron can emerge stronger (and Miliband weaker) after this week's drama. Time will tell if Cameron has learnt the lessons.
Oh, and thanks also to those who repaired the problem yesterday.
While I think Miliband has got rid of the 'weak' label and on some measures performed well this week, it's the long term which is going to be more important. A leader of the opposition has got to be strategic, it may well be that Ed is, but it strikes me that both Ed and Dave to a certain extent thought short term this week.
It's important when a leader makes a verbal commitment for it to be followed through. Many agreements are bartered face to face rather than relying on written treaties; there just isn't the time to get things done otherwise. Many other leaders around the world will look at what happened with Ed's actions this week - apparently giving Dave a commitment to bring labour on side and see someone whose word cannot be trusted. Dave was a fool to believe him and not plan accordingly.
Isabel Hardman in the Coffee House Blog - Obama follows Cameron by seeking Congressional approval for Syria strike
"This suggests that those who tried to certify the special relationship dead probably need a refresher course in vital signs as it clearly isn’t headed for the mortuary, rather an acute unit (and Fraser explained why that assessment was wrong this morning). Perhaps it shows that Obama is aware of the trouble the US caused Cameron in initially setting out a tight timetable for strikes. But it also suggests he was impressed by the way the Prime Minister respected democracy in this country, even when that democratic process stung him.
But the President is not recalling Congress, which is not due back until 9 September. This gives him the time to roll the pitch in a way Cameron did not by rushing into recalling Parliament. So his move highlights an honourable miscalculation: Cameron was acting with the best intentions (even if you believe they were the wrong ones and that intervention will not help) but on a poor calculation. But perhaps his honourable miscalculation now looks a little more laudable than the political calculation of the Labour party."
He then could have waited until the US presented its case.
Many on here believe Kerry and Obama have presented a stronger case.
It is hard to understand this special relationship, in why they were not working together to win the vote on Wednesday, if it was so crucial for democracy and the rule of international law.
Just like the post below "Ed Milibands day got worse" and others posts below - They quote a reporter from The Spectator, Lord Ashcroft, Benedict Brogan, Dan Hodges etc. They might as well quote Grant Shapps, Peter Bone and Christopher Hope. Do they not realise they are all quoting right wingers?
The Tory spin machine must be really worried to be spinning so much.
Ed can always try a private member's bill if Cameron continues to shun him.
He would have to show a little remorse to get it through both Houses though.
I can only conclude that as well, he wanted to rush it all through parliament to a timetable he must have been aware off.
Obviously that timetable was not as paramount as he thought , as we can see from the whitehouse this evening.
This special relationship has been a spectacular balls up this week in presenting its case in some sort of rational order.
The G20 in St Petersburg is on the 5-6 September so Congress returning on the 9 September is perfect timing to apply maximum pressure on Russia to come up with a last minute compromise agreement.
Hitting Syria before the G20 would blow the meeting up as well as Syrian military assets.
Of course, if Assad repeats his use of CW in the interim he can expect an immediate strike now it has Presidential authorisation.
Fraser Nelson@frasernelson10m
Obama’s decision to recall Congress before a Syria strike pays David Cameron the highest compliment. My blog: http://specc.ie/1dwjNPL
Air raid on Bari 1943
"One of the destroyed vessels—the U.S. Liberty ship John Harvey—had been carrying a secret cargo of 2,000 M47A1 mustard gas bombs, each holding 60–70 lb (27–32 kg) of the agent."
The same evidence announced by Kerry in his speech yesterday was made available to Ed Miliband on the Tuesday before the vote. Miliband would also have been given access to additional classified information and any British intelligence not shared with the US (if any).
Miliband has absolutely no grounds on which to claim there was insufficient evidence.
His mind wasn't on the evidence though. It was on domestic political gain and averting shadow cabinet resignations.
First Cameron goes to Parliament, then Putin's suggests a G20 discussion and then Obama goes to Congress. Hollande will look dictatorial if he doesn't follow suit. And China has been a bit quiet. But apart from that, these are all good precedents as far as I'm concerned.
Oooh I think you're telling porkies there - I lurk more than I post and when it comes to repetitive posting I think you're right up there. But I have no problem with it on either side.
When was the fieldwork done?
Also, it's been apparent since early August that the ~6pt lead has solidified but not moved on. Cameron would be pleased to keep it that way from Syria.