It was interesting listening to Ken Clarke talk about Thatcher's mythology - both left wing and right wing. Reminds me of the recent narrative about government "cuts" (which might be slowly changing), where the left would cry doom and gloom about slashing and burning, and Osborne would go along with it because he was trying to convince party supporters and the markets. Whereas the reality is that the cuts so far are almost non-existent.
When the current PM calls himself the heir to Blair, I think her influence may be overstated. Looking forward to a proper assessment when the right comes out of mourning.
Yes that should be fun. The big question is will the Left ever get over her ? Setting aside the traditional left-wing jibe that righties all want to be Thatcher which is little more than wishful thinking, I'd say the Right has moved on more than the Left. This is partly because Thatcher won most of the arguments so it's easier and partly bar a few ultras the right is less embedded in past battles. Since the 80s the Left has struggled to come up with a set of relevant and coherent ideas, the latest flunk "fairness" is usually tested to destruction in Primary Schools by kids aged 6.
" Since the 80s the Left has struggled to come up with a set of relevant and coherent ideas"
Yup. Being defined by what you hate or claim to hate is a very negative viewpoint - EdM doesn't have a narrative, neither did Gordon - Tony had the Third Way which was basically Social Democracy xd with Toryism, a Herman Kohl sort of politics born from Clinton.
Given her destruction of the eleven plus and grammar schools she defined a lot of people
Oh dear, you forgot to mention milk.
Really you left wing chappies need to move on a bit, trying to refight yesterday's battles tomorrow isn't good for you. The situation on the ground has changed. Try being relevant, start with having the occasional policy.
‘I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.’ Margaret Thatcher.
" Since the 80s the Left has struggled to come up with a set of relevant and coherent ideas"
Yup. Being defined by what you hate or claim to hate is a very negative viewpoint - EdM doesn't have a narrative, neither did Gordon - Tony had the Third Way which was basically Social Democracy xd with Toryism, a Herman Kohl sort of politics born from Clinton.
Labour's like the History Channel, the past is always present. Maybe they should merge with the DUP.
I think one of the aspects of Thatcher overlooked in her obits is her training as a scientist - vs the PPE grads of today. As a scientist she was used to theories being overthrown by better data - hence (as colleagues have been testifying) her love of argument - what mattered to her was what was right, rather than who was right - in contrast to the corporatist consensus which preceded her. Of course she'd never admit she'd changed her mind - but change her mind she did.
As Charles Moore observed on Newsnight last night, on Thatcher 'the clever people were wrong while the stupid people were right."
Livingstone's spoken the most sense on the Thatcher legacy imo. I'd be willing to debate that view, but on here discussion is closed down before it even starts.
(Plus, I'm off oop north...).
To cheer some up in these hard times, this made me laugh:
Livingstone's spoken the most sense on the Thatcher legacy imo. I'd be willing to debate that view, but on here discussion is closed down before it even starts.
(Plus, I'm off oop north...).
To cheer some up in these hard times, this made me laugh:
One of my favourite moments was when 364 economists wrote to the newspapers claiming Thatcher and Howe were getting it wrong on the economy. Of course it turned out the experts were wrong.
RT @LibertyscottUK: (1/3) I'm curious as to why so much of post-coal mining Britain remains in victim mode 30 years later, compared to eastern europe...
This struck me as really odd the other day when we were discussing fracking - and earthquakes so inconsequential that they'd not wake you up.
Mining is a dangerous, horrible job whatever way you look at it. It's not noble - its an awful way to earn a living, why is it treated as some totem by the Left? I'd rather work at Nissan myself.
RT @KulganofCrydee: @JimDavisOnAir As for closing the pits, Lady Thatcher closed 22 pits, but Labour's Harold Wilson closed 93.
Is this correct?
Probably. Blair helped kill off the rest of UK mining and no lefty bats an eyelid. I suspect the reason MT is blamed is because she defeated the shock troops of the Union movement. After the miners lost, the Left - especailly the hard left, lost the ability to bring the country to a standstill. Observe current PCS action and see if you notice.
One of my favourite moments was when 364 economists wrote to the newspapers claiming Thatcher and Howe were getting it wrong on the economy. Of course it turned out the experts were wrong.
In 1981, Mervyn King (current Bank of England Governor) was one of the 364 economists who signed a letter to The Times condemning Geoffrey Howe's 1981 Budget!
Interesting YouGov today illustrating the problems on both sides. A highlighted by Financier, the secondaries show a marked rightward shift: more anti-Europe, much less hostile to Government economic policies. This may be a sampling thing (we've seen them fluctuate before) or it may be real, which would be worrying for Labour. But the voting intention is exactly the same as usual - Lab 40, Con 30, LD and UKIP 12. So even in a sample that is relatively benign about the Government, the Conservatives are still making no progress whatever. Their main problem remains that 40% of voters seem implacably hostile, and that's enough under FPTP.
Too early to see a Thatcher impact - if there is one, it'll be tomorrow.
Comments
you have some degree of acuity about these things.
What are your thoughts? About what she did...her legacy..etc..?
Like Chairman Mao? Three errors for every seven achievements?
What were her most and least successful policices?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02530/090413-MATT-web_2530798a.jpg
Higher rate income tax reduced from 83% to 40%
Interesting. More granular than I might have expected.
Thx
" Since the 80s the Left has struggled to come up with a set of relevant and coherent ideas"
Yup. Being defined by what you hate or claim to hate is a very negative viewpoint - EdM doesn't have a narrative, neither did Gordon - Tony had the Third Way which was basically Social Democracy xd with Toryism, a Herman Kohl sort of politics born from Clinton.
Really you left wing chappies need to move on a bit, trying to refight yesterday's battles tomorrow isn't good for you. The situation on the ground has changed. Try being relevant, start with having the occasional policy.
‘I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.’ Margaret Thatcher.
As Charles Moore observed on Newsnight last night, on Thatcher 'the clever people were wrong while the stupid people were right."
(Plus, I'm off oop north...).
To cheer some up in these hard times, this made me laugh:
http://reasonsmysoniscrying.tumblr.com/
As did this:
http://loldaddy.com/pics/6754
"Looking for the new moon tomorrow to mark reversal" ?! Is that a metaphor or is astrology really relied upon for market predictions...
I'm pretty sure the workers of Wearside would rather be working in Nissan than down a mine.....
Is this correct?
This struck me as really odd the other day when we were discussing fracking - and earthquakes so inconsequential that they'd not wake you up.
Mining is a dangerous, horrible job whatever way you look at it. It's not noble - its an awful way to earn a living, why is it treated as some totem by the Left? I'd rather work at Nissan myself.
https://twitter.com/cocker/status/321495295613628416/photo/1
Too early to see a Thatcher impact - if there is one, it'll be tomorrow.