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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Facts and fantasies about public ownership. Don Brind looks at

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  • Yup, is the issues I've flagged up on here.

    If they could stop all the money going to the head of the household, then we're cooking on gas.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914

    The problem is less the ownership structure and more the pressures on management and workforce. Nationalised industries did badly in Britain in the 1970s because they were more geared towards the interests of the producer than towards the interests of the nation, the consumer or the customer.

    It is entirely conceivable to have nationalised industries that are focused, more usefully, on other interests. I am, however, sceptical whether Mr Corbyn is the man to find a different path from the one walked in the 1970s.

    +1
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,144

    The problem is less the ownership structure and more the pressures on management and workforce. Nationalised industries did badly in Britain in the 1970s because they were more geared towards the interests of the producer than towards the interests of the nation, the consumer or the customer.

    It is entirely conceivable to have nationalised industries that are focused, more usefully, on other interests. I am, however, sceptical whether Mr Corbyn is the man to find a different path from the one walked in the 1970s.

    What I do wonder is whether present-day expectations would force nationalised industries down a different path.

    I also wonder where Brexit would come in the priorities of a Labour government taking office under the terms of the FTPA. They wouldn't be looking at the usual 5 year term.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,138

    Yup, is the issues I've flagged up on here.

    If they could stop all the money going to the head of the household, then we're cooking on gas.
    If they are worried about people claiming more than they are entitled to they should spend more on reclaiming it back when people get off benefits, that or modify how much they receive in future months to make up the amount owed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Hopkins, indeed, that seems rather common sense.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397
    Scott_P said:
    David Davis is the only Leave leader to have engaged with Brexit and it seems to have broken him. I regret that. Credit to him for trying.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    nielh said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Chameleon said:

    In other news RPI is now at 3.9%, making the interest on student loans 6.9%! A student in the last year of their course will accrue 3,500 odd pounds of interest alone this year... and people wonder why the couple of hundred quid that generous Phil gave us a few weeks ago didn't have much effect.

    The proposed raising of the income threshold when student 9% marginal tax becomes payable is a massive improvement.
    The interest rate on student loans doesn't actually matter these days unless you're pulling ~ 90k on graduation..
    My teacher grandchildren are paying back their loans. Two/three years out of Uni. And no way are they on £90k. 27 or so.
    I think it becomes a significant problem if you hit £41k, which is not unrealistic if you are 10 years in to your career in the public sector (although many will not).

    Even on the lower rate, say you had borrowed £55k over three years, your loan would be increasing by about £181 per month just in interest payments at the beginning of the repayment term. So, in reality, if you are a public sector worker you will never really reduce the debt burden, it just acts as an additional tax.

    Vote Corbyn, take back control.

    How much does a primary head/deputy earn? Grandson’a primary school teacher.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416
  • justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Singapore the state also spends just 14% of gdp compared to 42% in the UK and taxes just 17% of gdp compared to 36% in the UK.

    It is also not the case that all European rail is fully nationalised, even Sweden has some private rail companies, though I accept UK public opinion favours rail renationalisation at the moment

    But where is rail renationalisation in the list of priorities? How many of those who commute by car for example want umpteen billions spent on the trains versus the NHS? Where Corbyn's Labour is utterly exposed is in believing they can have all of these things.
    Railtrack collapsed and has already been replaced by Network Rail . I think the intention is to return the services to the public sector as existing franchises expire. Not much cost involved there.
    And much of the issues across the country these days in terms of poor service is due to the publically owned Network Rail not the private companies.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

    Is that the same OECD that said joining the ERM was a good idea?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,138
    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416
    Bloody experts!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    TOPPING said:

    How much nastier does TMay want the Cons to be seen as?
    Their self-built bomb, aka UC, just keeps ticking away.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

    Is that the same OECD that said joining the ERM was a good idea?

    Do we know they were wrong? The Germans have an economy we can only drool over
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

    Is that the same OECD that said joining the ERM was a good idea?

    Do we know they were wrong? The Germans have an economy we can only drool over

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,138
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

    Is that the same OECD that said joining the ERM was a good idea?

    Do we know they were wrong? The Germans have an economy we can only drool over
    Clearly our period of ERM membership was a roaring success
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,138

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Oh, absolutely, I wouldn't recommend anyone posts names here.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,375
    Just add Hillary for a game of Snog, Marry, Avoid.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,110
    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    David Davis is the only Leave leader to have engaged with Brexit and it seems to have broken him. I regret that. Credit to him for trying.
    Nope. He gave himself the job which suggested he had prepared for it and would have a plan to execute. He had not thought about it more than he thought he would like the job and evidently has no plan.
  • calum said:
    Johnny Mercer showing sound judgment once again.
    By rejecting a Cameron/Osborne policy? Agreed.
    It was ruined by IDS.
    No it was ruined by Osborne.
  • TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    David Davis is the only Leave leader to have engaged with Brexit and it seems to have broken him. I regret that. Credit to him for trying.
    Nope. He gave himself the job which suggested he had prepared for it and would have a plan to execute. He had not thought about it more than he thought he would like the job and evidently has no plan.
    This tweet needs to be shared more often, he's a pound shop Sion Simon

    https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/735770073822961664
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I see Fraser Nelson is still clinging to this line that 'No Deal' is just some kind of glorified negotiating tactic.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/10/amber-rudd-says-that-a-no-deal-brexit-is-unthinkable-shes-very-wrong/

    I think he's just trying to convince himself. Cliff-edge Brexit is now the prevailing desire within the Leave movement. In fact, it's amazing how the quickly and seamlessly the Ultras have seized the agenda. The Softies have barely put up a fight.

    ....and in further good news the OECD have just said that reversing Brexit would boost the economy. So good news for the many if not the Tory fruitcakes

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

    Is that the same OECD that said joining the ERM was a good idea?

    Do we know they were wrong? The Germans have an economy we can only drool over
    Er yes we know they were wrong. It was called Black Wednesday.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017
    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
  • TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    David Davis is the only Leave leader to have engaged with Brexit and it seems to have broken him. I regret that. Credit to him for trying.
    Nope. He gave himself the job which suggested he had prepared for it and would have a plan to execute. He had not thought about it more than he thought he would like the job and evidently has no plan.
    This tweet needs to be shared more often, he's a pound shop Sion Simon

    https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/735770073822961664
    I feel a twinge of sympathy for DD. Regardless of his other failures - losing the Tory leadership contest, the civil-liberties crusade that never was - he'll be remembered as the greater Brexit negotiator who only managed to delivery WTO terms. A sad and humiliating legacy for him, though he won't be alone.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited October 2017

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    Indeed - Kez is spot on

    https://twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/920228805310107648
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    Nearly evening all :)

    I hope OGH's turn at Westminster went well.

    I would have liked to comment on the previous so I will.

    My experience of betting (on horses not politics) is there is often a herd instinct. I once attended Lingfield for a routine Polytrack meeting and didn't look at the form or buy a racecard. I simply followed the money all afternoon - if a horse was backed in a race at whatever the price, I backed it.

    I made money - not a lot and less than if I had taken the best prices about the supported horses but money was made. So much then for form analysis, paddock inspection and the like - simply follow what the shrewdies are doing and clean up.

    Information is king and knowing it before everyone else makes you top dog. We all gasp at tweets showing "fascinating" or "surprising" poll numbers in advance (expectations not always delivered) but to close out that position or go in further is based on instinct or if you're really lucky, prior knowledge.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,822
    Perhaps May should try hand gestures.
    https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/920297918850007040
  • eekeek Posts: 28,778
    interpretative dance anyone...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited October 2017
    eek said:

    interpretative dance anyone...
    TMay is, of course, effing useless. But I do feel she was dealt a bum-hand by Cameron, who did absolutely no contingency planning for what was a distinctly possible outcome of the referendum he called, and then just walked away when it didn't go his way. He should be getting a hell of a lot more flack for all this than he is currently getting.
  • TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    David Davis is the only Leave leader to have engaged with Brexit and it seems to have broken him. I regret that. Credit to him for trying.
    Nope. He gave himself the job which suggested he had prepared for it and would have a plan to execute. He had not thought about it more than he thought he would like the job and evidently has no plan.
    This tweet needs to be shared more often, he's a pound shop Sion Simon

    https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/735770073822961664
    I feel a twinge of sympathy for DD. Regardless of his other failures - losing the Tory leadership contest, the civil-liberties crusade that never was - he'll be remembered as the greater Brexit negotiator who only managed to delivery WTO terms. A sad and humiliating legacy for him, though he won't be alone.
    No sympathy, he's a preening twat, has always been a preening twat, and always will be a preening twat.

    The fact he's a hypocrite as well too.

    Going to European courts to stop the government, introducing a de facto ID cards for EU citizens post Brexit, and opposing same sex marriage isn't the sign of a civil libertarian, the opposite in fact.
  • eek said:

    interpretative dance anyone...
    I'm quite happy to teach Mrs May my dance moves.
  • Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    Failing?

    We haven't invaded a foreign country under it. Beats Blair's term by a mile because of that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763

    Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    It will be a totally different unpredictable type of armageddon?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    Failing?

    We haven't invaded a foreign country under it. Beats Blair's term by a mile because of that.
    That was bad news for Iraq, but it didn't in the end cause lasting damage to the economic livelihoods of the people of this country.
  • Jonathan said:

    Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    It will be a totally different unpredictable type of armageddon?
    It'll be worse.

    Remember when Dr Fox said getting a deal with the EU would be the easiest thing in the world.
  • You know what, I think we should give Mrs May some credit.

    She put Boris, DD, and Liam Fox in key Brexit roles and let the fuck up.

    That's great karma.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    eek said:

    interpretative dance anyone...
    TMay is, of course, effing useless. But I do feel she was dealt a bum-hand by Cameron, who did absolutely no contingency planning for what was a distinctly possible outcome of the referendum he called, and then just walked away when it didn't go his way. He should be getting a hell of a lot more flack for all this than he is currently getting.
    I couldn't agree more. In particular, the "Cameron was so much better than May" schtick doesn't really go anywhere, because May is Cameron's legacy. The worse she sucks, the worse he looks.

    Also, giving Work & Pensions to IDS is looking to have been a major unforced error.
  • Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    I'm undecided whether we're just being softened up for the inevitable failure, or cliff-edge Brexit was the secret plan all along. I'm hoping the former, as the latter would indicate the most egregious example of political cynicism I've ever encountered.
  • Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    I'm undecided whether we're just being softened up for the inevitable failure, or cliff-edge Brexit was the secret plan all along. I'm hoping the former, as the latter would indicate the most egregious example of political cynicism I've ever encountered.
    The referendum campaign all makes sense if you think Boris et al weren't expecting to win, but solely focused on the next Tory leadership contest.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    Failing?

    We haven't invaded a foreign country under it. Beats Blair's term by a mile because of that.
    That was bad news for Iraq, but it didn't in the end cause lasting damage to the economic livelihoods of the people of this country.
    Some people feel more strongly about dead brownies than about wages-stagnating-in-real-terms whities. Bizarre, but there it is.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    calum said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    Indeed - Kez is spot on

    https://twitter.com/kezdugdale/status/920228805310107648
    The point that she's missing with Weinstein is that his relationships with young starlets were for the most part transactional. He pays them in kind with parts in his movies.

    It's in no way reasonable but little different from Mrs Trump who clearly wasn't seduced by Donald's good looks or any number of middle aged men who travel to Thailand and have sex with young Thai girls with the promise of a fee.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    Failing?

    We haven't invaded a foreign country under it. Beats Blair's term by a mile because of that.
    That was bad news for Iraq, but it didn't in the end cause lasting damage to the economic livelihoods of the people of this country.
    Some people feel more strongly about dead brownies than about wages-stagnating-in-real-terms whities. Bizarre, but there it is.
    Yup.

    Clement Attlee should be regarded as a national disgrace for his role in the partition of India.

    But he set up the NHS so people love him.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    I'm undecided whether we're just being softened up for the inevitable failure, or cliff-edge Brexit was the secret plan all along. I'm hoping the former, as the latter would indicate the most egregious example of political cynicism I've ever encountered.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" is an exceptionally sound principle.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268
    This is a fascinating article on vehicle emissions:

    https://tinyurl.com/y8cj3jzw

    I have a 2010 diesel Corsa and suspect it's probably better than most modern diesels.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Z, indeed, the Battle of Arausio springs to mind.

    The Romans were facing a tribe, the Cimbri, to whom they'd lost a number of major battles in recent history. They were also massively outnumbered. Yet, despite that, the two co-leaders of the army loathed one another so much they didn't co-ordinate tactics at all.

    The loss of the Roman army was pretty much total.

    As an aside, one of the chaps, Quintus Servilis Caepio, is also reputed to have made the largest theft in history. The billions of pounds worth of gold he nicked has never been found.

    And with that, I must be off.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Don't worry Liam Fox says it will be alright

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/920335444235169792

    I'm undecided whether we're just being softened up for the inevitable failure, or cliff-edge Brexit was the secret plan all along. I'm hoping the former, as the latter would indicate the most egregious example of political cynicism I've ever encountered.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" is an exceptionally sound principle.
    Quite so. Most people are not vindictive, they are just inadequate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,633
    tlg86 said:

    This is a fascinating article on vehicle emissions:

    https://tinyurl.com/y8cj3jzw

    I have a 2010 diesel Corsa and suspect it's probably better than most modern diesels.

    09 Peugeot 207 here. 74k of which about 61 are mine :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    4.5 years from now.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,822

    You know what, I think we should give Mrs May some credit.

    She put Boris, DD, and Liam Fox in key Brexit roles and let the fuck up.

    That's great karma.

    It does feel as though there’s been a mood change and they are becoming figures of derision across the spectrum.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    4.5 years from now.
    It will need the DUP or a few by elections!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    tlg86 said:

    This is a fascinating article on vehicle emissions:

    https://tinyurl.com/y8cj3jzw

    I have a 2010 diesel Corsa and suspect it's probably better than most modern diesels.

    That was a truly fascinating and informative article. Thank you.

    It gives me another reason to run my old faithful with 150,000 exactly on the clock for another couple of years too!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    I disagree. I think the author's puns are awful. I say he is an ass who has reached Bottom.

    My coat's on the hook by the door if anyone wants to pass it!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is a fascinating article on vehicle emissions:

    https://tinyurl.com/y8cj3jzw

    I have a 2010 diesel Corsa and suspect it's probably better than most modern diesels.

    That was a truly fascinating and informative article. Thank you.

    It gives me another reason to run my old faithful with 150,000 exactly on the clock for another couple of years too!
    It was a deeply annoying article; one where the author wanted a certain conclusion and was (shock, horror) surprised when he didn't get the one he wanted. A lot of waffle for very few facts.

    (A bit like my posts, then ... )
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
    I haven't witnessed it, and have mentored a number of female junior doctors through a number of personal and professional difficulties, none of whom have raised it.

    I ha ve my office arranged so that whoever I am meeting is closer to the door, and try to keep such meetings within work hours, so that there are others in the office suite.

  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Nothing wrong with public ownership or any of the policies associated with old mainsream Labour -the Labour of Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan.
    But there is something very very very wrong with Corbyn and mcDonnell who are hard left Marxists trying to re-invent themselves into the mainstream.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
    I haven't witnessed it, and have mentored a number of female junior doctors through a number of personal and professional difficulties, none of whom have raised it.

    I ha ve my office arranged so that whoever I am meeting is closer to the door, and try to keep such meetings within work hours, so that there are others in the office suite.
    You are very wise to organise your meetings in such a manner. But if you have not noticed abuses, perhaps it is time to ask whether your eyes have been fully open. Because in organisations as big as a hospital, it *will* happen.

    Workplace romances are a difficult area to navigate, and the maps should be annotated with 'there be dragons', in every sense. ;) Then there are those few sick doctors and nurses who prey on patients ...

    If you have any authority over another person, you need to be really careful about how you start a personal relationship with that person.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880

    Mr. Z, indeed, the Battle of Arausio springs to mind.

    The Romans were facing a tribe, the Cimbri, to whom they'd lost a number of major battles in recent history. They were also massively outnumbered. Yet, despite that, the two co-leaders of the army loathed one another so much they didn't co-ordinate tactics at all.

    The loss of the Roman army was pretty much total.

    As an aside, one of the chaps, Quintus Servilis Caepio, is also reputed to have made the largest theft in history. The billions of pounds worth of gold he nicked has never been found.

    And with that, I must be off.

    Did he take the gold to what is now Nigeria? I wonder!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is a fascinating article on vehicle emissions:

    https://tinyurl.com/y8cj3jzw

    I have a 2010 diesel Corsa and suspect it's probably better than most modern diesels.

    That was a truly fascinating and informative article. Thank you.

    It gives me another reason to run my old faithful with 150,000 exactly on the clock for another couple of years too!
    It was a deeply annoying article; one where the author wanted a certain conclusion and was (shock, horror) surprised when he didn't get the one he wanted. A lot of waffle for very few facts.

    (A bit like my posts, then ... )
    That's probably fair, I should have said read the intro and then skip to the end. But I find the stuff about the tests being completely disconnected from reality very depressing.

    One stat I did like was the fuel efficiency of the 23 year-old Golf. I guess it compares well with modern petrol cars on the basis that cars have probably become heavier over the years.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
    I haven't witnessed it, and have mentored a number of female junior doctors through a number of personal and professional difficulties, none of whom have raised it.

    I ha ve my office arranged so that whoever I am meeting is closer to the door, and try to keep such meetings within work hours, so that there are others in the office suite.
    You are very wise to organise your meetings in such a manner. But if you have not noticed abuses, perhaps it is time to ask whether your eyes have been fully open. Because in organisations as big as a hospital, it *will* happen.

    Workplace romances are a difficult area to navigate, and the maps should be annotated with 'there be dragons', in every sense. ;) Then there are those few sick doctors and nurses who prey on patients ...

    If you have any authority over another person, you need to be really careful about how you start a personal relationship with that person.
    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
    I haven't witnessed it, and have mentored a number of female junior doctors through a number of personal and professional difficulties, none of whom have raised it.

    I ha ve my office arranged so that whoever I am meeting is closer to the door, and try to keep such meetings within work hours, so that there are others in the office suite.

    I suspect, indeed I'm reasonably sure that, as an elderly white bloke, I've been guilty, ever so many years ago, of what in today's terms would be called harassment. However, when I was working the NHS, I followed Dr Fox's rule. Although I knew people who didn't.
    And I knew people who set out to be paternalistic.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    When is someone going to put this failing government out of its misery?

    4.5 years from now.
    It will need the DUP or a few by elections!
    The DUP will be the key - Tory by-elections seem fairly rare, and while the Tories might hope to ditch May and get a new leader in who leads to a polling bump they can try to take advantage of, with Brexit at best being messy, that seems unlikely to me.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    Gay and Jewish? It's odds on he'd be a fascist or Nazi.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    nichomar said:

    Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first.

    You cannot assume a good employer will stay good forever, not without pressure from somewhere.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,138
    Just catching up with OGH's grilling at Parliament earlier today... some interesting questions.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    I think it’s safe to say we should not speculate, I think OGH enjoys having money.
    That is the real story of Weinstein.

    Sexual harrassment in the workplace is very common in many workplaces, particularly in areas relying on patronage and networking. Jounalism, Media and politics all come into this basket, as we Lib Dems know.

    As we Doctors say: There is a lot of it about!
    http://time.com/4337372/30-of-female-doctors-have-been-sexually-harassed/
    30 = 30%, and the text makes clear this is harassment by male colleagues, not patients.
    As we laymen say: Physician, heal thyself.
    That was in America, but as I said careers where patronage and networking make a difference are very vulnerable to this. I suspect Britain is not far different.

    I cannot say that I have been aware of sexual harrassment during my working life in Leicester Hospitals. It may just be that as a middle aged white bloke, I am not likely to be harrassed!

    I think the question for us middle-aged white blokes (assuming we're not guilty of harassment ourselves) is whether we've witnessed it, and if so, whether we've done anything about it.
    I haven't witnessed it, and have mentored a number of female junior doctors through a number of personal and professional difficulties, none of whom have raised it.

    I ha ve my office arranged so that whoever I am meeting is closer to the door, and try to keep such meetings within work hours, so that there are others in the office suite.
    You are very wise to organise your meetings in such a manner. But if you have not noticed abuses, perhaps it is time to ask whether your eyes have been fully open. Because in organisations as big as a hospital, it *will* happen.

    Workplace romances are a difficult area to navigate, and the maps should be annotated with 'there be dragons', in every sense. ;) Then there are those few sick doctors and nurses who prey on patients ...

    If you have any authority over another person, you need to be really careful about how you start a personal relationship with that person.
    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.
    Defintely harassment!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kle4 said:

    nichomar said:

    Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first.

    You cannot assume a good employer will stay good forever, not without pressure from somewhere.
    That is true I worked for the best employer there was who has now changed dramatically
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914
    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
    Indeed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268

    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
    At times at the ONS it felt like you were weird if you weren't seeing/married to another member of staff!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
    Indeed.
    My view is unrealistic in the real world but the companies that grow prgressively balance staff, shareholders and profit. It is good business but there are greedy people in the world
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,723
    edited October 2017

    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
    This seems to be catching. My wife was a trainee geologist on my rig and I was her first supervisor. We married 3 years to the day after we met. As with JJ we told our bosses as soon as we became involved and after that were no longer allowed to work on the same rigs together which was fair enough. Though the company did try to make sure that , if we were willing to put in the extra time involved, they would try and keep our offshore rotations synchronised.

    At the same time I met my wife, another female geologist working for Shell had just married her long time partner. Even though their boss had known about their relationship, Shell's official policy was a complete ban on workplace relationships and so they tried to transfer then both to different parts of the world. Needless to say they both quit immediately and went to work for a more understanding company.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,633
    edited October 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
    At times at the ONS it felt like you were weird if you weren't seeing/married to another member of staff!
    No interstaff relationships at my work (So far as I know !), though there is alot of carry on (Yes it is both ways before anyone asks) between my subordinates and the workshop.
    I stay out of the 50 shades of mild steel ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
    At times at the ONS it felt like you were weird if you weren't seeing/married to another member of staff!
    I always think being married to someone at the same organisation is dangerous - I have known husband-and-wife combinations get redundancies on the same day from the same org. For this reason, soon after Mrs J started living with me, we moved to different companies. (or at least one of us did).
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
    Indeed.
    My view is unrealistic in the real world but the companies that grow prgressively balance staff, shareholders and profit. It is good business but there are greedy people in the world
    I think you are absolutely right. I am not sure I would legislate overly to force them to do so beyond what we have now but I do think educating companies as to the advantages of having a happy balance is a good way forward.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,633

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
    Indeed.
    My view is unrealistic in the real world but the companies that grow prgressively balance staff, shareholders and profit. It is good business but there are greedy people in the world
    I think you are absolutely right. I am not sure I would legislate overly to force them to do so beyond what we have now but I do think educating companies as to the advantages of having a happy balance is a good way forward.
    Recruitment and training is an absolute ballache. I try and make clear how much I value my team at the annual appraisal.
    But he sets the pay awards !
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    Samuel Plimsoll was a classic case of how MPs should not just tackle issues their constituents are concerned with. As MP for Derby, he was about as far from the sea as you can get (*), but he did his best work for advancing the cause of seamen.

    (*) Though the Vikings got as far as Repton ...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268

    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    As it happens, I married the woman I supervised.

    So did I. ;)

    When I started dating Mrs J, there was a certain 'dance' that we both went through. I was her project manager (not line manager), and we both were rather careful. The first thing we did after we got personal (ahem) was tell our respective bosses, even if no-one else in the company got to know about it for a year. My boss had a chat with Mrs J, and Mrs J's boss with me, to check that there was no dodgeiness. Since her boss was a strict Catholic, the conversation was rather hilarious. "Are your intentions honourable?"

    We need to allow people to form relationships at work (within reason - teachers and over-16 pupils being a case otherwise), whilst ensuring that abuse does not occur. That can be a very fine line.
    At times at the ONS it felt like you were weird if you weren't seeing/married to another member of staff!
    I always think being married to someone at the same organisation is dangerous - I have known husband-and-wife combinations get redundancies on the same day from the same org. For this reason, soon after Mrs J started living with me, we moved to different companies. (or at least one of us did).
    Yes, that's true. A friend of mine married his boss (she interviewed and gave him the job in the first place which I find amusing), and she left soon after they started seeing each other to go to another company.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    nichomar said:

    I have a problem in that i believe companies that work well, deliver and dont rip off customers, shareholders and workers should be the norm. Also a good employer doent need a union because they put their employies first. Whay has capitalism lost the sense of the common good so everyone benifits?

    I think you are confusing capitalism with something else. Check out the Chimney Sweep Acts, and why there are Plimsoll lines on ships.
    Understand the chimney sweep reference but not the plimsol line, is it related to slavery
    Plimsoll lines wee introduced after a Parliamentary campaign by Samuel Plimsoll because overloaded ships were sinking, consequently drowning sailors. The cargos were, of course, insured.
    The point being that unscrpulous employers put profit before safey
    Indeed.
    My view is unrealistic in the real world but the companies that grow prgressively balance staff, shareholders and profit. It is good business but there are greedy people in the world
    I think you are absolutely right. I am not sure I would legislate overly to force them to do so beyond what we have now but I do think educating companies as to the advantages of having a happy balance is a good way forward.
    Something Elon Musk needs to learn ...

    https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/10/tesla-fires-hundreds-of-workers/
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    An interseting debabate, civalised and informed, would like to stay longer but off to bed!
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    Impending Twitter political journalism sh*tstorm:

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/920322079878275072

    It's reasonably obvious, from replies downthread, who the allegations are about... only a matter of time before names are named.

    SeanT expose?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited October 2017
    Crimewatch axed by BBC after 33 years
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41648972

    I thought the whole point of the telly tax was that bbc was to make programmes for the public good and not for ratings?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,356
    edited October 2017
    Mortimer said:

    And I got to Cambridge and back yesterday, via London for £51.50. Bargain.

    On Sunday, Cambridge to London cost me just £16.90, so ner :p
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Crimewatch axed by BBC after 33 years
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41648972

    I thought the whole point of the telly tax was that bbc was to make programmes for the public good and not for ratings?

    Ain't really going to help catch criminals anymore, if no-one's watching it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914

    Crimewatch axed by BBC after 33 years
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41648972

    I thought the whole point of the telly tax was that bbc was to make programmes for the public good and not for ratings?

    Ain't really going to help catch criminals anymore, if no-one's watching it.
    It was up against Cold Feet and Broadchurch: good programs, but I'm unsure that they're for the 'public good'. When the BBC chase ratings, the public loses.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited October 2017

    Crimewatch axed by BBC after 33 years
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41648972

    I thought the whole point of the telly tax was that bbc was to make programmes for the public good and not for ratings?

    Ain't really going to help catch criminals anymore, if no-one's watching it.
    It rarely made a difference in solving crimes even at its peak - I remember reading that only about 15 cases out of the hundreds they featured were solved from evidence obtained from people phoning into crimewatch. Mostly it was about the fear factor from showing the crime re-enactments, which were always good for ratings.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Mortimer said:

    And I got to Cambridge and back yesterday, via London for £51.50. Bargain.

    On Sunday, Cambridge to London cost me just £16.90, so ner :p
    £51.50 was for a first-class ticket I assume.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,914
    Off-topic:

    An interesting (though technical) article about how the Cold War in space has never really ended, and how a small Yorkshire spot called Menwith Hill might be of global importance:

    http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1
This discussion has been closed.