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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson v Philip Hammond, who leaves their cabinet posit

13

Comments

  • Y0kel said:
    Isn't he breaking Austrian law by having that face covering?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    Is BJ trying to sabotage TM?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    The thing is, ethnicity is visible. Sexuality is not. Okay, so sometimes it can be obvious, but most of the time I doubt I'd be able to guess. So it shouldn't be monitored in the same way as ethnicity or gender are.

    Incidentally, this is an issue for the 2021 Census. If we're monitoring sexuality, then we should ask the question in the Census. The ONS, in my opinion, bottled it in 2011, I'm not sure they can do so in 2021.
    Bizarrely, the government wants to make it optional to state one's sex in the Census form (information which is far more relevant to public policy formation than sexuality).
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017
    https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/76ea5p/mortgages_remortgaging_after_h2b_2yr_fix_and/

    Falling house prices are going to be a nightmare for the homeowners/BTL party. If prices return to their historical average vs. earnings, ~£3 Trillion gets knocked off the collective wealth of the nation.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    The thing is, ethnicity is visible. Sexuality is not. Okay, so sometimes it can be obvious, but most of the time I doubt I'd be able to guess. So it shouldn't be monitored in the same way as ethnicity or gender are.

    Incidentally, this is an issue for the 2021 Census. If we're monitoring sexuality, then we should ask the question in the Census. The ONS, in my opinion, bottled it in 2011, I'm not sure they can do so in 2021.
    Bizarrely, the government wants to make it optional to state one's sex in the Census form (information which is far more relevant to public policy formation than sexuality).
    I can imagine the people who actually have to do the work at the ONS (I used to be one of them) are mortified by that proposal.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    Although Ruth's personal ratings are holding up, it's starting to look like we've seen peak SCON. On the subject of abuse in the Scottish politics space - the collective MSM and PB.com "Murphygasm" back in GE 2015 tops anything else:

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/sometimes-its-just-a-spade/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    calum said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    Although Ruth's personal ratings are holding up, it's starting to look like we've seen peak SCON. On the subject of abuse in the Scottish politics space - the collective MSM and PB.com "Murphygasm" back in GE 2015 tops anything else:

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/sometimes-its-just-a-spade/
    Damn shame it happened after the election :smiley:
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,941
    kle4 said:

    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    You mean if she decides to back independence and become Prime Minister of Scotland?
    Prime Minister of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
    Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland - she's so great she'll bring the Republic back into the fold.
    Border issue solved at a stroke.
    DUP might be a bit vexed though.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,916

    Y0kel said:
    Isn't he breaking Austrian law by having that face covering?
    I'd wondered where my balaclava had gone ...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    FPT;
    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    dixiedean said:

    PAW said:

    "In another stunning defeat for Europe's establishment, as previewed earlier this morning Austria's 31-year-old Sebastian Kurz is assured victory in the Austrian National Council elections, with his People's Party set to take roughly 30.2% of the vote according to exit polls by Austrian broadcaster ORF, while just as shocking is that the anti-immigrant, nationalist Freedom Party appears set to top the Social Democrats in 2nd place with 26.8% of the vote"

    No longer. Latest projection has Freedom Party 3rd.
    It looks as if the Greens could be knocked out.
    Indeed. Looks like their vote has gone to SPO, thus explaining their slightly better showing. (than expected).
    It would have been better for the Left, in terms of seats, had they stuck with the Greens.

    It also opens up the possibility of an SPO/FPO coalition.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,916
    kle4 said:

    Y0kel said:
    UK

    https:twitter.com/carcopithecon/status/878681101669195776
    I think it's the balaclava - something about the garment makes anything sinister.
    That reminded me to change my profile pic, thanks. ;)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017

    Y0kel said:
    Isn't he breaking Austrian law by having that face covering?
    Possibly the photo antedates the ban, or was taken in another country.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    The way the vote has shifted so massively in recent elections, it cannot be ruled out, surely.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,831

    Isn't he breaking Austrian law by having that face covering?

    I'd be more concerned about the fashion police nabbing him for the combat loon pants.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139

    kle4 said:

    Y0kel said:
    UK

    https:twitter.com/carcopithecon/status/878681101669195776
    I think it's the balaclava - something about the garment makes anything sinister.
    That reminded me to change my profile pic, thanks. ;)
    I know who to call if we need to persuade TSE to publish his AV magnum opus...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,227
    Theresa May has personally urged Angela Merkel to end the Brexit stand-off at this week’s EU summit in Brussels after Berlin and Paris led moves to toughen the EU’s negotiating line in the next phase of talks.

    https://amp.ft.com/content/95c8df4a-b1b9-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8
  • justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    I think you've said this on just about every thread for the last several weeks.

    Are ye a betting man at all?
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    If Corbyn still in charge it could well be an SNP wipeout next time.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    I don't see it getting as high as that. It would imply winning back all the seats lost in 2015 which seems unlikely somehow.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Danny565 said:

    "such as during the general election campaign when Mrs May and her staff kept on sidelining Philip Hammond, which allowed Labour’s economic plans to go largely unchallenged."

    I have two points to make on this:

    1) When was the last time a Chancellor ever wasn't "sidelined" in relative terms during an election? Virtually every election campaign sees almost all the media attention focussed on the leaders these days. I don't recall George Osborne getting much media coverage during the 2015 election either (even though by all accounts he was heavily involved behind the scenes

    2) Labour's economic plans were very much "challenged" throughout the election. Re-watch the first PMQs after the election announcement: Mrs May (who really does look and sound like a different person confidence-wise in that compared to today) is throwing in numerous references to how "Labour would bankrupt our economy/country". She then went onto make constant references to Labour's "sums not adding up" and "magic money trees" throughout the campaign, often invoking Diane Abbott not being able to do maths. The right-wing newspapers splashed the day after the Labour manifesto about how Labour would "take us back to the 1970s". The BBC went huge on the IFS analysis that the Labour manifesto would be an "unprecedented" expansion of the size of the state, or whatever they said.

    Of all the lame excuses Tories have come up with, the idea that Labour's plans weren't "scrutinised" has to be the lamest of all. The Tories and their allies' attempted "scrutiny" on Labour might not have had the desired effect, but that doesn't mean they didn't attempt it.

    Shhh! Don't disturb the PB Tories. All they need to do to defeat Jezza is point to his spending plans, show a few old IRA film clips, drop the dementia tax and buy the kids a bag of sweets and it is nailed on Boris as PM.

    Or maybe not....

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,916
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Y0kel said:
    UK

    https:twitter.com/carcopithecon/status/878681101669195776
    I think it's the balaclava - something about the garment makes anything sinister.
    That reminded me to change my profile pic, thanks. ;)
    I know who to call if we need to persuade TSE to publish his AV magnum opus...
    I'm also available for children's parties. I always have them laughing. At least, I think the tears are from laughter ...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    valleyboy said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here, the Labour feckwit strongly tipped to replace Carwyn -- Ken Skates -- knew so little Welsh history that he proposed a sculpture in Flint to celebrate the subjugation of Wales by Edward I. The Ring of Steel.

    Ken was surprised at the outcry.

    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    If Corbyn still in charge it could well be an SNP wipeout next time.
    Not quite, but I can see a lot of Scots voting a split ticket, with Lab for Westminster and SNP for Holyrood.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,730
    Does the EU want the ECJ to have jurisducation re:

    1) the rights of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit, or

    2) the rights of everyone (ie including UK citizens) in the UK post Brexit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,831

    Theresa May has personally urged Angela Merkel to end the Brexit stand-off at this week’s EU summit in Brussels after Berlin and Paris led moves to toughen the EU’s negotiating line in the next phase of talks.

    https://amp.ft.com/content/95c8df4a-b1b9-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8

    Mrs May’s team fear that Paris and Berlin are “misreading” the political situation in Britain

    "You don't understand, Angela. They really are out to get me..."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    MikeL said:

    Does the EU want the ECJ to have jurisducation re:

    1) the rights of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit, or

    2) the rights of everyone (ie including UK citizens) in the UK post Brexit.
    I thought it was option 1.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    Danny565 said:

    "such as during the general election campaign when Mrs May and her staff kept on sidelining Philip Hammond, which allowed Labour’s economic plans to go largely unchallenged."

    I have two points to make on this:

    1) When was the last time a Chancellor ever wasn't "sidelined" in relative terms during an election? Virtually every election campaign sees almost all the media attention focussed on the leaders these days. I don't recall George Osborne getting much media coverage during the 2015 election either (even though by all accounts he was heavily involved behind the scenes

    2) Labour's economic plans were very much "challenged" throughout the election. Re-watch the first PMQs after the election announcement: Mrs May (who really does look and sound like a different person confidence-wise in that compared to today) is throwing in numerous references to how "Labour would bankrupt our economy/country". She then went onto make constant references to Labour's "sums not adding up" and "magic money trees" throughout the campaign, often invoking Diane Abbott not being able to do maths. The right-wing newspapers splashed the day after the Labour manifesto about how Labour would "take us back to the 1970s". The BBC went huge on the IFS analysis that the Labour manifesto would be an "unprecedented" expansion of the size of the state, or whatever they said.

    Of all the lame excuses Tories have come up with, the idea that Labour's plans weren't "scrutinised" has to be the lamest of all. The Tories and their allies' attempted "scrutiny" on Labour might not have had the desired effect, but that doesn't mean they didn't attempt it.

    Shhh! Don't disturb the PB Tories. All they need to do to defeat Jezza is point to his spending plans, show a few old IRA film clips, drop the dementia tax and buy the kids a bag of sweets and it is nailed on Boris as PM.

    Or maybe not....

    Hahaha - @Danny565, you nailed it!

    Labour won't get away with a fully costed manifesto again next GE. Oh, wait...
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.


    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    I don't see it getting as high as that. It would imply winning back all the seats lost in 2015 which seems unlikely somehow.
    Based on current polling and what I'm picking up on the ground here in Stirling, I think Labour beating the Tories into third in Scotland at the next WM and Holyrood elections would be a more realistic target.

    Most recent WM polling would point to SLAB still under 10 seats but ahead of SCON. SLABs biggest issue at the moment is the leadership election is at risk of descending into civil war as SLAB fights its biggest enemy - itself.

    The next WM election should see the unwinding of much of the unionist tactical voting - taking my seat, Stirling, as an example the local Orange Labour CorbynIsta Trade Union crew are unlikely to be voting SCON this time around !!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.






    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue the barrage of abuse from the Nats who said we were wasting our money backing the SNP to lose their majority in 2016 or backing Salmond and Robertson to lose in June.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    Based on current polling and what I'm picking up on the ground here in Stirling, I think Labour beating the Tories into third in Scotland at the next WM and Holyrood elections would be a more realistic target.

    Most recent WM polling would point to SLAB still under 10 seats but ahead of SCON. SLABs biggest issue at the moment is the leadership election is at risk of descending into civil war as SLAB fights its biggest enemy - itself.

    The next WM election should see the unwinding of much of the unionist tactical voting - taking my seat as an example the local Orange Labour CorbynIsta Trade Union crew are unlikely to be voting SCON this time around !!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637

    Danny565 said:

    "such as during the general election campaign when Mrs May and her staff kept on sidelining Philip Hammond, which allowed Labour’s economic plans to go largely unchallenged."

    I have two points to make on this:

    1) When was the last time a Chancellor ever wasn't "sidelined" in relative terms during an election? Virtually every election campaign sees almost all the media attention focussed on the leaders these days. I don't recall George Osborne getting much media coverage during the 2015 election either (even though by all accounts he was heavily involved behind the scenes

    2) Labour's economic plans were very much "challenged" throughout the election. Re-watch the first PMQs after the election announcement: Mrs May (who really does look and sound like a different person confidence-wise in that compared to today) is throwing in numerous references to how "Labour would bankrupt our economy/country". She then went onto make constant references to Labour's "sums not adding up" and "magic money trees" throughout the campaign, often invoking Diane Abbott not being able to do maths. The right-wing newspapers splashed the day after the Labour manifesto about how Labour would "take us back to the 1970s". The BBC went huge on the IFS analysis that the Labour manifesto would be an "unprecedented" expansion of the size of the state, or whatever they said.

    Of all the lame excuses Tories have come up with, the idea that Labour's plans weren't "scrutinised" has to be the lamest of all. The Tories and their allies' attempted "scrutiny" on Labour might not have had the desired effect, but that doesn't mean they didn't attempt it.

    Shhh! Don't disturb the PB Tories. All they need to do to defeat Jezza is point to his spending plans, show a few old IRA film clips, drop the dementia tax and buy the kids a bag of sweets and it is nailed on Boris as PM.

    Or maybe not....

    The Tories were completely unable to challenge Corbyn's plans to raise income and inheritance tax last time because of the dementia tax
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    There's a lot more to it than straight or gay. I shall offer them one of this lot, if I'm asked:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637

    valleyboy said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
    Wales is worse.

    Here,.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    The only thing stopping Ruth Davidson from becoming First Minister is if she decides to become Prime Minister instead.

    Cue.
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    If Corbyn still in charge it could well be an SNP wipeout next time.
    Not quite, but I can see a lot of Scots voting a split ticket, with Lab for Westminster and SNP for Holyrood.
    There is unlikely to be any split ticket voting, the next general election is likely to be in 2019 or 2020 or the full 5 year term will elapse and it will be in 2022. The next Holyrood election is due in 2021
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,831
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637
    edited October 2017

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,227
    Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    https://twitter.com/eddiemarsan/status/919586345139560448
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    calum said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.


    At least no Scottish Minister has yet suggested a statue to Butcher Cumberland.
    When Ruth becomes FM....
    When?!
    I doubt that somehow . The Tories have probably peaked in Scotland and likely to be back in third place next time.
    Probably, although plenty said even with SLAB troubles they wouldn't get second last time, and said 6+ seats was laughable.
    I would not be surprised to see Labour manage 30 seats there next time.
    Could well be 40.
    I don't see it getting as high as that. It would imply winning back all the seats lost in 2015 which seems unlikely somehow.
    Based on current polling and what I'm picking up on the ground here in Stirling, I think Labour beating the Tories into third in Scotland at the next WM and Holyrood elections would be a more realistic target.

    Most recent WM polling would point to SLAB still under 10 seats but ahead of SCON. SLABs biggest issue at the moment is the leadership election is at risk of descending into civil war as SLAB fights its biggest enemy - itself.

    The next WM election should see the unwinding of much of the unionist tactical voting - taking my seat, Stirling, as an example the local Orange Labour CorbynIsta Trade Union crew are unlikely to be voting SCON this time around !!
    Under 10 seats would imply no more than 2 Labour gains in Scotland next time. I expect Labour to do much better than that and will be surprised if they fail to at least treble their representation at Westminster - taking all the Glasgow seats and many others in the Central Belt.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    There's a lot more to it than straight or gay. I shall offer them one of this lot, if I'm asked:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias
    While clearly the outrage bus is ploughing on, this is a storm in a teacup.

    If someone declines to respond, they will be marked as a "declined to say" and not asked next time. As far as other orientations, that is permitted too.

    This week the Tory government, at Mrs May's insistence, published a race audit and instructed public bodies to account for this variance. Hence the need for this sort of demographic questionaire.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    What a breath of fresh air.

    An intelligent and well read leader, who is not embarrassed about it!
  • Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    https://twitter.com/eddiemarsan/status/919586345139560448
    Didn't McDonnell campaign with Varoufakis for a Remain vote? Being critical of the EU for thirty years is hardly the same as being for a Leave vote in the actual referendum. If Remainers had been a bit more critical maybe their pro-EU message would not have sounded so alien to the majority. For the umpteenth time - Labour voters turned out for Remain, and Labour's campaign was decently pitched to that audience.
  • WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434
    edited October 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    Boris knows some Kipling I hear.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    Boris writes perfectly good books
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Y0kel said:

    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.

    Compare and contrast with either Donald Trump or any recent British PM....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    The English have always been suspicious of pontificating intellectuals, unlike France.

    On the plus side, it's saved us from destructive ideologies.

    So far..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    I increasingly wonder if it's Merkel and Macron who are the problem.
  • Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:



    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Emmanuel Macron: If Cameron attacks, everything will be alright.

    Michel Barnier: Monsieur Macron... Cameron...

    Angela Merkel: Cameron didn't have enough Remainers. The Remain victory didn't take place.

    [Macron pauses to take off his glasses]

    Macron: The following stay here: Tusk, Merkel, Barnier and Juncker.
    [The four named EU bigwigs, along with Hollande and Verhofstadt, remain in the room as the others leave. The door closes behind them]
    That was an order! Cameron's attack was an order! How dare you ignore my orders?!
    [Macron's ranting is clearly audible outside the room]
    Is this what it came to? The Commission, everybody lied to me. Even the LibDems! The Remainers are no more than a bunch of disloyal cowards!

    Juncker: Monsieur Macron, I can't permit you to insult the British Remainers-

    Macron: They are all cowards, traitors and failures!

    Juncker: Monsieur Macron, This is outrageous!

    Macron: The Commission are the scum of the European Project!
    [flings a pencil onto the table]
    NO SENSE OF HONOUR! You call yourself "Commissioner" because you spent years at the academy, where you only learned how to use a knife and fork! For years, the Commission obstructed me. All you ever did is thwart me. What I should have done, is had all the high officers fired, like Donald Trump did!
    [pauses]
    I never went to the academy. But I conquered all of France on my own. Traitors! I've been betrayed and deceived from the start. Such enormous betrayal of the European people. But all these traitors will pay. They will pay with their own jobs! They will drown in their European Regulations!

    Theresa May: [To Anna Soubry, outside the room] Anna, please calm yourself!

    Macron: All my orders have been ignored. How can I be a President under these circumstances? It's over. The war is lost. But if you think this means I'll leave Brussels... you're wrong. I'd rather give Nigel Farage fellatio! [sighs] Do whatever you want.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    I didn't think you were that naive.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    Certainly no problem with such interests. But just because a politician has an interest in literature as opposed to, say, football, doesn't make them more intelligent or enlightened.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    I am hoping for a few leaks from the negotiations, I suspect they would turn the public firmly against the EU. What is the point of GCHQ if you don't make use of it?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230

    Theresa May has personally urged Angela Merkel to end the Brexit stand-off at this week’s EU summit in Brussels after Berlin and Paris led moves to toughen the EU’s negotiating line in the next phase of talks.

    https://amp.ft.com/content/95c8df4a-b1b9-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8

    I don't know why UK PM's consistently believe that the way to square the EU is to have a quiet word in Angela's ear.

    Time and time again this has been shown to be false.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Mitchell's a comedian, but this is quite an interesting piece on a society without a shared concept of how the world works:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/living-without-shared-religion-neil-macgregor-living-with-gods-radio-4
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
    I am very sceptical that access is denied or restricted to anyone on the grounds of their sexual orientation.

    I think it's just the latest growth market for the diversity industry.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    Certainly no problem with such interests. But just because a politician has an interest in literature as opposed to, say, football, doesn't make them more intelligent or enlightened.
    Rly? I would've said it was a pretty bloody huge pointer.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
    I didn't realise the NHS was full of homophobes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT;

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn

    Looks like we're having a Fudge Brexit then. How very European!
    The point is that Germany doesn't wAnt it. In or out. Nothing in between.
    It would be in line with Macron's thinking before he was elected.

    https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/101/eyes-on-the-elysee/

    EM: I am a hard Brexiter. I think that Europe has made a mistake negotiating the inter-governmental accord [the “special status” deal David Cameron struck with the EU in February last year]. It created a precedent, which is that a single state can twist the European debate to its own interests. Cameron was toying with Europe and we agreed to go along with it, which was a big mistake.
    Another example of Macron's clarity of thinking


    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/919608914538352650
    I wish we had more politicians who could discuss literature like that, and a culture which ensured they weren't laughed at.
    What, like Boris?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230

    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
    I suspect the FPO will try to play both the OVP and SVP off one another, to maximise their leverage in coalition talks.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2017

    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
    It's mathematically possible but unlikely.

    Interesting that the Freedom party topped the poll amongst 18-29 year olds. In Britain the young back Corbyn and it seems the EU - in Austria they favour Euroscepticism and controls on particularly Islamic immigration and cutting benefits.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257
    Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    But I wonder how may of us still think of him as a slimy toad?
  • tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
    I didn't realise the NHS was full of homophobes.
    A number of BME cultures are a tad homophobic
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Y0kel said:

    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.

    Thatcher famously "re-read the latest Freddie Forsyth" and I would think that puts her above the intellectual range of anyone in the present cab or shad cab other than Boris. We don't compare well with for instance Trudeau who gave (unrehearsed) a correct summary of the difference between classical and quantum computing last year.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230

    Mitchell's a comedian, but this is quite an interesting piece on a society without a shared concept of how the world works:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/living-without-shared-religion-neil-macgregor-living-with-gods-radio-4

    " I always say I’m agnostic because I’d like there to be a God – a nice liberal one – but I can’t be sure there is and the idea of regular religious observance unnerves me because it would be unusual in my peer group."

    There are many like Mitchell who aren't willing to say, think or do anything that sits uncomfortably within their peer group.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited October 2017

    Y0kel said:

    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.

    Compare and contrast with either Donald Trump or any recent British PM....
    And the world wonders why Trump got elected.

    Hate to surprise you. The job of politicians is to do things that they were voted in for, make the art of the possible reality, not knock on about books. I don't particularly care about Macron. Don't know much about him and being frank nor do most people on here but i do know it won't make a wet fart of a difference that he reads some books and expresses some opinions if he doesn't deliver enough of what a significant enough group of the French population want.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271

    Mitchell's a comedian, but this is quite an interesting piece on a society without a shared concept of how the world works:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/living-without-shared-religion-neil-macgregor-living-with-gods-radio-4

    " I always say I’m agnostic because I’d like there to be a God – a nice liberal one – but I can’t be sure there is and the idea of regular religious observance unnerves me because it would be unusual in my peer group."

    There are many like Mitchell who aren't willing to say, think or do anything that sits uncomfortably within their peer group.
    Spooky, I read the piece and that line stood out to me too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    tlg86 said:

    Mitchell's a comedian, but this is quite an interesting piece on a society without a shared concept of how the world works:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/living-without-shared-religion-neil-macgregor-living-with-gods-radio-4

    " I always say I’m agnostic because I’d like there to be a God – a nice liberal one – but I can’t be sure there is and the idea of regular religious observance unnerves me because it would be unusual in my peer group."

    There are many like Mitchell who aren't willing to say, think or do anything that sits uncomfortably within their peer group.
    Spooky, I read the piece and that line stood out to me too.
    Speaks volumes, doesn't it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637
    edited October 2017
    brendan16 said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
    It's mathematically possible but unlikely.

    Interesting that the Freedom party topped the poll amongst 18-29 year olds. In Britain the young back Corbyn and it seems the EU - in Austria they favour Euroscepticism and controls on particularly Islamic immigration and cutting benefits.
    Melenchon (a close comparison to Corbyn) won under 30s in France, Fillon pensioners. Le Pen also did well with younger voters. Merkel and I would imagine Kurz (despite his youth) also did best with the oldest voters, as did Trump.

    It is more a case of the populist right and left doing best with the youngest voters on the continent and centre right parties with pensioners and the oldest voters. A surprisingly large number of working class young voters voted Leave for example, especially working class young men, it was more young middle class graduates who were overwhelmingly Remain
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
    I didn't realise the NHS was full of homophobes.
    It isn't, but in order to meet the needs of different, hard to reach, communities a tailored approch is required.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271

    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    The whole point is to ensure equitable access, not deny it to anyone.
    I didn't realise the NHS was full of homophobes.
    A number of BME cultures are a tad homophobic
    Well, this may make things worse! (unless of course the homophobes also have amazing gaydar)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    brendan16 said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
    It's mathematically possible but unlikely.

    Interesting that the Freedom party topped the poll amongst 18-29 year olds. In Britain the young back Corbyn and it seems the EU - in Austria they favour Euroscepticism and controls on particularly Islamic immigration and cutting benefits.
    Perhaps the Left should argue for the disenfranchisement of the under 30s in Austria, and giving the elderly an extra vote due to their wisdom and life experience.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2017
    There seems to be some disagreement as to which party has come second in the Austrian election. Wikipedia (and others) have the Freedom Party ahead of the Social Democrats by 27.4% to 26.7% for example but alternative sources are putting the Social Democrats in second place by 26.9% to 26.0%.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    "We’ll be publishing analysis of what a “no deal” Brexit would mean for prices in the shops on Tuesday..." - surely any price rises or import restrictions would be under the control of the UK government - why would they do that?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.

    Compare and contrast with either Donald Trump or any recent British PM....
    And the world wonders why Trump got elected.

    Hate to surprise you. The job of politicians is to do things that they were voted in for, make the art of the possible reality, not knock on about books. I don't particularly care about Macron. Don't know much about him and being frank nor do most people on here but i do know it won't make a wet fart of a difference that he reads some books and expresses some opinions if he doesn't deliver enough of what a significant enough group of the French population want.

    How's Trump's delivery going?
  • tlg86 said:

    Mitchell's a comedian, but this is quite an interesting piece on a society without a shared concept of how the world works:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/living-without-shared-religion-neil-macgregor-living-with-gods-radio-4

    " I always say I’m agnostic because I’d like there to be a God – a nice liberal one – but I can’t be sure there is and the idea of regular religious observance unnerves me because it would be unusual in my peer group."

    There are many like Mitchell who aren't willing to say, think or do anything that sits uncomfortably within their peer group.
    Spooky, I read the piece and that line stood out to me too.
    You could start your own wee peer group.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,637

    brendan16 said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Austrian Lower House will have big right wing majority, but not necessarily, a right wing government.

    Yes, Kurier is speculating that the FPO might even form a coalition with the social democrats (who against expectations didn't lose votes) - seems unlikely to me, but I'm no kind of Austrian expert.
    It's mathematically possible but unlikely.

    Interesting that the Freedom party topped the poll amongst 18-29 year olds. In Britain the young back Corbyn and it seems the EU - in Austria they favour Euroscepticism and controls on particularly Islamic immigration and cutting benefits.
    Perhaps the Left should argue for the disenfranchisement of the under 30s in Austria, and giving the elderly an extra vote due to their wisdom and life experience.
    The elderly voted for the OVP so that would not help the Left much
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Politician described as near genius because they read some books and have opinions.

    F**k sake.

    Compare and contrast with either Donald Trump or any recent British PM....
    And the world wonders why Trump got elected.

    Hate to surprise you. The job of politicians is to do things that they were voted in for, make the art of the possible reality, not knock on about books. I don't particularly care about Macron. Don't know much about him and being frank nor do most people on here but i do know it won't make a wet fart of a difference that he reads some books and expresses some opinions if he doesn't deliver enough of what a significant enough group of the French population want.

    Yeah fuck books innit. Surprised to hear you say so, though - you come across as someone who reads quite a lot of spy fiction.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    The BBC report says no one will be forced to answer questions about it, but of course it is none of their damn business.
    It is a requirement of the government equality audit to monitor these things, along with ethnicity etc to prove that we are not discriminating.

    No-one is obliged to declare. Usually it is done by a form handed into reception when registering.
    Yes, I understand the reason. It's not particularly compelling. From the report they will have to ask at 'every face to face contact with the patient, where no record of this data already exists'. Every face to face contact. I certainly have not had to fill out a form every time I visit the doctor, so in fact despite what you say they will apparently ask, every time, rather than take a lack of information after the first time registering as indication people don't wish to declare.

    Since people don't fill out a form every time, are you sure you won't be in breach if you rely on that method?
    Once the surgery or hospital has a record, it doesn't need to ask again.
    Yes, but if your patient doesn't check the box, you or a member of staff will have to ask them, in person, or force the form on them again, and again, and again, until they relent. Is that not what asking at 'every face to face contact, where no record of this data already exists' means?

    So the staff will have to repeatedly ask people.
    Sounds like harassment to me.

    "So you've not ticked the box. Are you gay or something?"
    I will certainly say it's none of their business.

    If not answering becomes an obstacle to me accessing an essential service, quite aside from complaining about it, I will pick the most ridiculous option available, and then say it's none of their business again.
    As I said, refusing to answer ticks the "declined to say" box. No further questions required.

    So the BBC report on the guidance claim is incorrect in saying question on every face to face contact if the info isn't there, essentially badgering people?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    The things that cause worry about McDonnell, much more so than worry about Corbyn, have not altered because he may have raised his game on the Brexit issue. He was always decent at appearing composed and credible - it is Corbyn who has raised his presentational, authoritative game, McDonnell always appeared more plausible even though personally I think he seems far more trouble than Corbyn.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The story of May et al flying to Europe to personally beg leaders to help them out doesn't quite seem to fit the "no deal would be fine" narrative...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    AndyJS said:

    There seems to be some disagreement as to which party has come second in the Austrian election. Wikipedia (and others) have the Freedom Party ahead of the Social Democrats by 27.4% to 26.7% for example but alternative sources are putting the Social Democrats in second place by 26.9% to 26.0%.

    The latter seems to be correct according to the main Austrian TV station ORF:

    http://orf.at/live/1901-OeVP-voran-SPOe-vor-FPOe/

    though that's before postal votes are counted (which might just get the Greens back in, incidentally).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,230
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    John McDonnell has raised his game. The most reassuring politicians voice I've heard on Brexit for months. Quite a turnaround for someone most of us thought of as a slimy toad.

    The things that cause worry about McDonnell, much more so than worry about Corbyn, have not altered because he may have raised his game on the Brexit issue. He was always decent at appearing composed and credible - it is Corbyn who has raised his presentational, authoritative game, McDonnell always appeared more plausible even though personally I think he seems far more trouble than Corbyn.
    McDonnell is mendacity personified, and he is very good at it.

    He will say whatever is necessary to get himself into a position where he can implement his real programme.
This discussion has been closed.