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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson v Philip Hammond, who leaves their cabinet posit

SystemSystem Posts: 12,258
edited October 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson v Philip Hammond, who leaves their cabinet position first

Paddy Power have a market up on who out of Boris Johnson and Phil Hammond will leave their cabinet position first. I’ve spent the  last couple of  hours thinking about this market, and trying to come to a definitive view.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,193
    First!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2017
    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - Macron is not getting involved in Brexit ("I don't give a f***. Angela tells me hard Brexit is good for her so let her have it")
    - France has clearly communicated that a deal will be done over Ireland. No one wants to jeopardise the peace process
    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential
    - Merkel thinks hard Brexit is worth 1pp off her unemployment rate and 0.5pp off her NAIRU. She thinks that full employment will solve the AfD issue.
    - the price for trade talks is eur 50bn
  • @Charles - I've edited your post, so it contains your post from the previous thread.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    I'ds have thought "no change" and "both change" are more likely than May having "one side win".

    Interesting post from Charles, thanks!
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    GIN1138 said:
    Clearly. Does anybody have any idea what he is saying?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,224
    edited October 2017
    Charles said:


    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential

    And everyone says residency rights will be the easiest to sort out.....Has this thinking had any public exposure on the other side of the channel?

    Edit - and returning the 1.4 m French is not within his control....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    Hammond would inevitably go first, he is now seen as out of step with the support for Brexit amongst Tory MPs, voters and members unlike Boris
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    GIN1138 said:
    There's an interview with Ianucci where he says - of course I didn't go around swearing all the time...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,429
    edited October 2017
    PClipp said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Clearly. Does anybody have any idea what he is saying?
    I think the gist is that because of Brexit, Britain might be in a spot of trouble... ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @Charles - I've edited your post, so it contains your post from the previous thread.

    Thanks
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    GIN1138 said:

    PClipp said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Clearly. Does anybody have any idea what he is saying?
    I think the gist is that because of Brexit, Britain might be in a spot of trouble... ;)
    Many thanks, Mr Gin. If that was when he meant, why didn`t he say so?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year
    - France also believes that constitutionally they can't do a deal on residency. Equality of all citizens is fundamental. Giving 1.4m citizens preferential access to a second (v g) jobs market is preferential

    And everyone says residency rights will be the easiest to sort out.....Has this thinking had any public exposure on the other side of the channel?

    Edit - and returning the 1.4 m French is not within his control....
    Don't know. First point was Hollande. Second point was Macron (but should have been "unconstitutional" instead of second "preferential"
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    Pre-2005, there was a lot of talk about the Lib Dems knocking the Tories into third place.

    Where are they now?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    Presumably net of costs, but didn't question the number
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    Pre-2005, there was a lot of talk about the Lib Dems knocking the Tories into third place.

    Where are they now?
    Indeed, I remember there was even talk of decapitating Theresa May and David Davis, obviously that did not quite work out
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    Watched The Dark Knight again on Friday. The attorney hero had a double headed coin that he used to tip the balance the way he wanted. Wonder if May could get a loan of it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    I think TSE is right on this one - some have been after Hammond for quite awhile now, and in any case he doesn't seem to have the level of backing that would save him as much as Boris does, plus economically we seem all over the place and Hammond cannot fix it even if he wants to given such slender numbers for any change in direction, so there'll be more opportunities given Boris can survive many a 'he said a stupid thing' gaffes.

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    It's why I've often thought it doesn't make much sense to eat dogs - most are so stringy.
    GIN1138 said:
    Well at least he's spreading the blame - cowardly MPs covers both main parties, given the official positions.
  • DavidL said:

    Watched The Dark Knight again on Friday. The attorney hero had a double headed coin that he used to tip the balance the way he wanted. Wonder if May could get a loan of it.

    Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy was the finest set of superhero films ever made.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    Plenty meat on these guys !

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/monster-rats-the-size-of-cats-found-on-south-london-housing-estate-a3226916.html
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,429
    edited October 2017
    On Topic - What if they leave the Cabinet together?

    Theresa's Night Of The Long Knives? ;)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Hammond likeliest to go first, I think. Fewer allies, no?
  • GIN1138 said:

    On Topic - What if they leave the Cabinet together?

    Theresa's Night Of The Long Knives? ;)

    Theresa's night of the long stiletto heels.

    Though she did that when she became PM, and that turned out to be a disaster for her, the party, and the country.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    The Dordogne property market is going to be a blood bath if this comes to pass.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    edited October 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m not keen on the Conservatives.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Hammond likeliest to go first, I think. Fewer allies, no?

    I think he will be left in place as a human lightning conductor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    Hammond's statement last week that the EU was 'the enemy' may have been fatal, having already lost Leavers that undermined his support with Remainers too
  • DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    calum said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    Plenty meat on these guys !

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/monster-rats-the-size-of-cats-found-on-south-london-housing-estate-a3226916.html
    Never tried cat. However, since it was in Osborne’s paper, I wonder if there’s an element of exaggeration.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    Said it before. Will say it again. Swap Hammond and Boris over.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m notn keen on the Conservatives.
    Ken Clarke privately predicted Neil Kinnock would win the 1992 general election too.

    Of course if Corbyn does become PM in 6 months he then has to deal with Brexit and probably navigate a minority government and try and put his unaffordable policies into practice, so the Tories would not be too distraught at that
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    Watched The Dark Knight again on Friday. The attorney hero had a double headed coin that he used to tip the balance the way he wanted. Wonder if May could get a loan of it.

    Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy was the finest set of superhero films ever made.
    Yes, they were all good. But Heath Ledger was just brilliant. If not the worst baddy ever certainly ahead of the curve.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m notn keen on the Conservatives.
    Ken Clarke privately predicted Neil Kinnock would win the 1992 general election too.

    Of course if Corbyn does become PM in 6 months he then has to deal with Brexit and probably navigate a minority government and try and put his unaffordable policies into practice, so the Tories would not be too distraught at that
    1. I’m not Ken Clarke.

    2. True, as far as clause 1 but in the course of watching, and participating in elections since about 1950, I’ve never known the Tories NOT distraught at losing! However, since Corbyn will probably be relying on the Euro-Conservatives to stay in power, he probably won’t be too ‘socialist’.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    edited October 2017

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance and if it leads to some charges for basic prescriptions that would be a good thing)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    That is just utter tosh of course. But short term adjustments would be necessary.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    If I was Phillip Hammond it would be better to resign than be sacked .Not the same impact as Nigel Lawson had but this is in the context of a much weaker PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    Hammond's statement last week that the EU was 'the enemy' may have been fatal, having already lost Leavers that undermined his support with Remainers too
    As I said at the time presumably he just wanted to show that his political competence was on a par with the rest of the cabinet.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    That is just utter tosh of course. But short term adjustments would be necessary.
    Nothing is tosh after Chris Grayling’s comments this morning
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m notn keen on the Conservatives.
    Ken Clarke privately predicted Neil Kinnock would win the 1992 general election too.

    Of course if Corbyn does become PM in 6 months he then has to deal with Brexit and probably navigate a minority government and try and put his unaffordable policies into practice, so the Tories would not be too distraught at that
    1. I’m not Ken Clarke.

    2. True, as far as clause 1 but in the course of watching, and participating in elections since about 1950, I’ve never known the Tories NOT distraught at losing! However, since Corbyn will probably be relying on the Euro-Conservatives to stay in power, he probably won’t be too ‘socialist’.
    2 Nor have I ever known Labour supporters not distraught at losing, you go into elections to win them not to lose them. However in the long term parties may have been better off losing some elections than winning them, eg Labour in 1974 or the Tories in 1992 even if it does not seem so at the time.

    Corbyn would be reliant on the SNP and LDs to stay in power, leaving the field of opposition clear for the Tories.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    Hammond's statement last week that the EU was 'the enemy' may have been fatal, having already lost Leavers that undermined his support with Remainers too
    As I said at the time presumably he just wanted to show that his political competence was on a par with the rest of the cabinet.
    Perhaps though by doing so he may have committed hari kiri
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    That is just utter tosh of course. But short term adjustments would be necessary.
    Nothing is tosh after Chris Grayling’s comments this morning
    Grayling is an imbecile. It is deeply troubling about the quality of our politics that someone like him can rise so far and not even look particularly out of place.

    I am going off thinking too much about the quality of our political leaders, it is beyond depressing. Of the present government the only one who seems capable of exercising critical faculties for more than the length of an interview is Gove. And he annoys the hell out of too many people.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m notn keen on the Conservatives.
    Ken Clarke privately predicted Neil Kinnock would win the 1992 general election too.

    Of course if Corbyn does become PM in 6 months he then has to deal with Brexit and probably navigate a minority government and try and put his unaffordable policies into practice, so the Tories would not be too distraught at that
    1. I’m not Ken Clarke.

    2. True, as far as clause 1 but in the course of watching, and participating in elections since about 1950, I’ve never known the Tories NOT distraught at losing! However, since Corbyn will probably be relying on the Euro-Conservatives to stay in power, he probably won’t be too ‘socialist’.
    2 Nor have I ever known Labour supporters not distraught at losing, you go into elections to win them not to lose them. However in the long term parties may have been better off losing some elections than winning them, eg Labour in 1974 or the Tories in 1992 even if it does not seem so at the time.

    Corbyn would be reliant on the SNP and LDs to stay in power, leaving the field of opposition clear for the Tories.
    Which 74 election are you referring to? It was far better for the country for the Tories to lose the February one; things got sorted out and peaceful very quickly under Labour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    Hammond's statement last week that the EU was 'the enemy' may have been fatal, having already lost Leavers that undermined his support with Remainers too
    As I said at the time presumably he just wanted to show that his political competence was on a par with the rest of the cabinet.
    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    Presumably net of costs, but didn't question the number
    Another way of looking at it is that those French guys are probably towards the high end of the income scale so they might well be contributing a couple of percent, maybe as much as 5% of the UK's income tax. That's got to hurt.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 712
    I've been away for a couple of weeks and I'm still catching up. Who won the bet on the length of applause after T. May's conference speech?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Inclined to agree, but we need a bit more debate. Shelving the Dilnot Report was a serious mistake.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715
    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    There aren't 1.4 m French people living here.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    That is just utter tosh of course. But short term adjustments would be necessary.
    Nothing is tosh after Chris Grayling’s comments this morning
    Grayling is an imbecile. It is deeply troubling about the quality of our politics that someone like him can rise so far and not even look particularly out of place.

    I am going off thinking too much about the quality of our political leaders, it is beyond depressing. Of the present government the only one who seems capable of exercising critical faculties for more than the length of an interview is Gove. And he annoys the hell out of too many people.
    Perhaps we expect too much of our politicians.

    We say they're awful, but there are not many better places to live in.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Sean_F said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    There aren't 1.4 m French people living here.
    This source gives 400,000 registered in London and assumes that is a 50% underestimate so 1.4M in the UK sounds realistic. Based on how many I know it seems quite believable.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-say-au-revoir-to-france-over-two-million-french-people-now-live-abroad-and-most-are-crossing-9788348.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
    Could make children and unemployed pay it as well.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
    Would still need to be oblivious to what it was or starved.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
    Would still need to be oblivious to what it was or starved.
    TBH I prefer it to turnip!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    True. I always think it tastes a bit like koala.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    edited October 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second. Like the Tories at the next election. At best!

    Kinnock 1992 hubris from Labour supporters is good for the Tories
    If you knew what you were posting on it might be usefil!
    Your post that Labour would definitely win the next general election.

    Of course a Corbyn Labour victory would still ultimately lead to hard Brexit, just with socialism on top!
    IIRC I posted some time ago that a local Tory MP had told me that Corbyn would be PM in six months. Incidentally three of those months have now passed, so I wonder how good my informant was as a prophet.

    I don’t recall posting how I felt about the idea, although you are right in assuming that I’m notn keen on the Conservatives.
    Ken Clarke privately predicted Neil Kinnock would win the 1992 general election too.

    Of course if Corbyn does become PM in 6 months he then has to deal with Brexit and probably navigate a minority government and try and put his unaffordable policies into practice, so the Tories would not be too distraught at that
    1. I’m not Ken Clarke.

    2. True, as far as clause 1 but in the course of watching, and participating in elections since about 1950, I’ve never known the Tories NOT distraught at losing! However, since Corbyn will probably be relying on the Euro-Conservatives to stay in power, he probably won’t be too ‘socialist’.
    2 Nor have I ever known Labour supporters not distraught at losing, you go into elections to win them not to lose them. However in the long term parties may have been better off losing some elections than winning them, eg Labour in 1974 or the Tories in 1992 even if it does not seem so at the time.

    Corbyn would be reliant on the SNP and LDs to stay in power, leaving the field of opposition clear for the Tories.
    Which 74 election are you referring to? It was far better for the country for the Tories to lose the February one; things got sorted out and peaceful very quickly under Labour.
    February 1974, Labour's complete inability to control the unions and inflation following Heath's complete inability to do the same led to Thatcher's ousting Heath in 1975 and her win in 1979 and 18 years of Tory rule.

    Just as in 1992 Labour's defeat led to Blair 2 years later and the removal of clause 4 and creation of New Labour and 13 years of Labour rule.

    Labour's win in 1974 and the Tory win in 1992 were probably better for the country but for the victorious parties they were probably worse off in the long-run as a result.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811

    DavidL said:

    Watched The Dark Knight again on Friday. The attorney hero had a double headed coin that he used to tip the balance the way he wanted. Wonder if May could get a loan of it.

    Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy was the finest set of superhero films ever made.
    Not that many trilogies to judge it against, and only 2 of the movies were any good.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
    Would still need to be oblivious to what it was or starved.
    TBH I prefer it to turnip!
    You have never tasted the real thing then OKC.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    True. I always think it tastes a bit like koala.
    No , you surely have not been eating cuddly little Koala's you beast.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
    I would not be opposed to that
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    True. I always think it tastes a bit like koala.
    Never tried that. Had witchetty grub, though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Inclined to agree, but we need a bit more debate. Shelving the Dilnot Report was a serious mistake.
    It certainly needs a full review
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880
    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    AIUI people may well, not necessarily will, be asked their sexual orientation. Presumably once only, of course, and they may decline to answer.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Watched The Dark Knight again on Friday. The attorney hero had a double headed coin that he used to tip the balance the way he wanted. Wonder if May could get a loan of it.

    Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy was the finest set of superhero films ever made.
    Not that many trilogies to judge it against, and only 2 of the movies were any good.
    Which of the three didn't you like?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
    Could make children and unemployed pay it as well.
    No, the point is pensioners are the ones who will be benefiting from the money being spent on social care. There are plenty of well-off pensioners who could pay some NI. Many are still in work.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
    Is this rat chlorinated?
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    We really have to pull out of Nato, why on earth do we subsidise Germany's defence.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    Sean_F said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:

    Spent weekend with my French connection. Few titbits:

    - France doesn't want a deal on residency rights. They want to kick out 300k expensive Brits and get back 1.4 taxpayers. It's worth at least 500m eur per year

    If it's a net transfer of 1m taxpayers to France - then you'd expect that to be worth quite a bit more than 500 euro/year each? I suppose some might go to another EU country but seems a strange figure...
    There aren't 1.4 m French people living here.
    That would be another problems with the figures then!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715
    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    absolute bollox
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
    Could make children and unemployed pay it as well.
    No, the point is pensioners are the ones who will be benefiting from the money being spent on social care. There are plenty of well-off pensioners who could pay some NI. Many are still in work.
    But surely children and unemployed use the NHS plenty as well, so what is the difference
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    absolute bollox
    Your opinion or your orientation?
  • DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    My own prejudices apart, I'm quite surprised about how duff Hammond is turning out to be. I suppose the various bollocks he spouted about gay marriage should have been a clue.
    Being boring, keeping your head down & not saying very much can get you quite far, until you have to deal with crises, put your head above the parapet and say stuff (Hi Theresa!).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,880

    malcolmg said:

    calum said:
    Actually, rat doesn’t taste bad at all. Not a lot of meat on a rat though. You need quite a few for a decent snack.
    I think I will take your word on that.
    The back legs taste a bit like chicken. As I said, not a lot of meat on them, though.
    Is this rat chlorinated?
    No. It is skinned, though! And now I have to meet someone down the pub!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,508
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    I've gone off Hammond too.

    Though in his defence, he's got the Leadbangers on his case, it can't be easy, Sam Coates pointed out yesterday that a no deal Brexit means tax revenues could drop by £60 billion per annum, that's got to mess with a Chancellor's mind.
    As I've said before Brexit, especially a No Deal, is the end of the NHS as entirely free at point of use.
    Oh for goodness sake yet more scaremongering, it may be difficult for a time but no government is going to end the NHS because of it. (Though personally I would like to see more of those who can afford it taking out health insurance)
    Pray give me the name of an insurance company which will insure a middle income family against the costs of dementia.
    Social insurance ie national insurance should cover any further dementia costs as is the case in the Netherlands and Japan.

    Though of course private insurance companies could take security against a dementia sufferer's house if needed but that would be their choice to do that
    Take your first point; we’ve not got social care right in thois country. And at one time I worked in that sector.
    We certainly need a more rational debate on it but for my part I prefer the social insurance model
    Yep. Why not end the non-payment of NI by pensioners as a starting point?
    Could make children and unemployed pay it as well.
    No, the point is pensioners are the ones who will be benefiting from the money being spent on social care. There are plenty of well-off pensioners who could pay some NI. Many are still in work.
    But surely children and unemployed use the NHS plenty as well, so what is the difference
    They don't have any money.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    In Austria, it looks like OVP 30-31%, FPO 27-29%, SPO 25-27%.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    DavidL - is Scots taught as a language? Are marks taken off for spelling?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/852152/maths-competition-gaelic-scots-answer

    PAW, so you asked half the question , it was just an open test and one question was to be answered in EITHER Gaelic or Scots. There should be no-one that cannot answer in Scots. So perfectly sensible and a bit of fun. I would expect a toilet paper rag like the express try to make something of it.
    I would be shocked if any English speaking person could not understand the question. The Scottish person was obviously a mean spirited unionist tw*t as I suspected.

    My son's class did that. They had no idea how to write it in Scots so they simply stuck "ken" in a few times. Be interesting to see how that is marked.
    David ,should have been reasonably simple as most of the words needed are in the question whether they know much Scots or not. Shows how poor things are when we don't even educate our children on at least some of our history and language. Kind of says it all I think, surely the only country in the world where this would be allowed to happen.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214

    DavidL said:

    By the way on this bet a pretty coruscating piece by Dominic Lawson in the ST: "Flip flop Phil gets his spreadsheets in a twist, never mind his view of Brexit." It's pretty brutal.

    Wonder if he has been speaking to his dad.

    The disillusionment with Hammond is increasingly widely spread covering both Brexiteers and Remainers alike. Boris has followers, if not quite as many as he did. If May has to make another catastrophic decision, just to show how tough she is, Hammond is the less risky target.

    Of course, given May's judgment to date it is not hard to argue the reverse...

    My own prejudices apart, I'm quite surprised about how duff Hammond is turning out to be. I suppose the various bollocks he spouted about gay marriage should have been a clue.
    Being boring, keeping your head down & not saying very much can get you quite far, until you have to deal with crises, put your head above the parapet and say stuff (Hi Theresa!).
    DC had him lined up to be Chief Secretary to the Treasury before the Coalition resulted in that job going to the Lib Dems. I think that would have been a good job for him. Lots of boring technical details, no profile to speak of. That said, his performance as Defence Secretary was a long way from stellar too. I was never quite sure (apart from his perceived remainer tendencies and pictures of forthcoming gloom) why so many people were claiming he was the adult in the cabinet.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    According to today's Sunday Times, everyone will have to declare their sexual orientation whenever they have a doctor's appointment. Any comments?

    absolute bollox
    Your opinion or your orientation?
    Both and definitely crucial that other half does not have them.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Something to be said for avoiding this "ECB asks banks to set aside more cash for bad debt amid €1tn problem". Didn't we get a bill for them last time?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,609
    edited October 2017
    Sean_F said:

    In Austria, it looks like OVP 30-31%, FPO 27-29%, SPO 25-27%.

    Kurz, the OVP's Chancellor candidate, would be Europe's youngest leader at 31, the far right FPO meanwhile jump from 3rd last time to 2nd this time
This discussion has been closed.