Mrs Thatcher was a formidable politician, with an Oxford Chemistry Bachelor of Science degree, unlike the pygmies with PPEs who were unfit to pour her whisky. An outsider from a provincial grammar school, who reached the top without all women short lists or quotas, though a rich husband was a help.
Like Harold Wilson she had a long slow decline which would have been a difficult cross for her loved ones to bear.
Miliband's tribute like Blair's shows that they are bigger men than some of the more wild twitter responses.
@SeanT: I think even those on the right can - and do - admire Mandela, who showed a greatness of spirit on his release which did much to ensure that South Africa moved from the vile apartheid in a calm and largely violence-free way. It did not have to be like that and Mandela (and De Klerk) had much to do with that.
The Tories as a whole need to get past Thatcher, not in the sense of not being on the side of freedom / liberty / sound money / a belief in what Britain can achieve etc but in terms of understanding how this applies to the country as it is now. They are still - to a very large extent - trying to apply policies needed in the early 80's to today's problems rather than working from first principles and coming up with policies and a clear message for today.
Hence all the garbage about whether someone is too Thatcherite or not Thatcherite enough. It's all garbage. Cut out the focus groups. Have a clear belief, say it clearly in language people can understand and then apply it to the problems you face.
It's the first two which are largely missing from today's politicians, whether from the left or right. Hence the problems they are all having with the third.
Avery, are you stalking me. I am for free speech, even when it is not to my taste. Not something I would be involved in but I can understand the strong feelings of people who had their families and futures ruined by her policies. Whilst I think she was good in some areas , especially foreign policy, she did do a lot of things I do not think were good in the long term and have contributed to making the country the mess it is now.
Once heard Lord Runcie preach in the midst of her reign and he pronounced that 'No-one without a sense of humour should be put in charge of anything'. Then quietly so only the four of us in the front pew heard 'least of all this country'. Hope that's not too disrespectful to those of you eulogising her, but Runcie's point always stuck with me. Right other things to do ...
Runcie was a mediocre and tiresome archbishop of Canterbury, a strong supporter of all the things that have made the church of England such a laughing stock, including adulation for Rome, ecumenism, and an abandonment of any principles at all. I would rather have a humourless but principled Prime Minister than the sort of amusing backsliding charlatan that Runcie no doubt desired.
Feel surprisingly ambivalent tbh. She certainly changed this country by taking on the unions. It took a long while for monetarism to kick in, and the medicine of uber-high interest rates to control inflation definitely killed off much British manufacturing. She was highly divisive and lost touch with ordinary people. She was a great politician but I'll save my tears for when Nelson Mandela dies.
Blair destroyed more manufacturing jobs than Thatcher and reduced manufacturing faster than Thatcher, why is that not an issue for those on the left ? Pull the beam out of your own eye first.
I never voted for Tony Blair. Couldn't stand the man. But there wasn't a lot of manufacturing base left by the time he took over. As I said she was a great politician. She did what she thought was needed in 1979 and it dragged this country kicking and screaming back to effectiveness but she also got a lot of things wrong, sometimes badly so. I've noticed a lot of people shrugging their shoulders today. The world moved on.
Manufacturing was 15% of GDP when Thatcher left office. It also escapes a lot of lefties that a chunk of the decline in 80s and 90s manufacturing employment was actually recategorisation as services which once were done on company payrolls, cleaning, IT, security, canteen were outsourced but the jobs still stayed.
@SeanT: I think even those on the right can - and do - admire Mandela, who showed a greatness of spirit on his release which did much to ensure that South Africa moved from the vile apartheid in a calm and largely violence-free way. It did not have to be like that and Mandela (and De Klerk) had much to do with that.
Indeed, and those qualities make him the second-greatest of South Africa's 20th century leaders.
Would that be the same eerie, cranky, obviously octogenerian Anthony Hindmarch who regularly writes obsessive leftwing letters to the local Grantham press complaining about Tory governments? I'm guessing yes.
Lol! F*cked if I know, I thought the Conservatives voting the statue down was the nub of the matter. I guess they may be feeling a little dickish at the moment.
“She was a leader of strong convictions, great leadership abilities and extraordinary personality. She was a woman who [knew that] a leader needed to have strong convictions because the public had no way of orienting itself unless its leadership, its leaders gave it the real push. She didn’t think it was her job to find the middle ground.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said:
"As a long-serving prime minister, she shaped modern Britain as few have before or since. She was one of the greatest leaders in world politics of her time. The freedom of the individual was at the centre of her beliefs so she recognised very early the power of the movements for freedom in Eastern Europe. And she supported them. I will never forget her contribution in overcoming Europe's partition and the end of the Cold War.
"Margaret Thatcher was not a feminist but by proving herself as a woman in the highest democratic post when this was far from usual, she gave an example to many. My thoughts and sympathy are with her children."
Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said Lady Thatcher was "a true landmark in 20th-century history" and said today was "a sad day for Europe as a whole." He adds:
"Margaret Thatcher led the UK government at a key moment in history. Her unerring commitment to freedom, democracy and the rule of law, as well as her firm determination to reform, constitute a most valuable legacy for European leaders who, akin to the 80s when it was her turn to be in power, have to face very complex challenges which require greatly ambitious stances and political courage."
Former Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy says:
My sincere sympathy goes out to the Thatcher family. We remember today a landmark political figure, both at home and abroad.
Condoleezza Rice said she was "honoured to know and to be inspired" by Margaret Thatcher:
I am deeply saddened by the news of the passing of Baroness Thatcher.
There was no more potent force in the defense of freedom than this remarkable woman.
Her unshakable belief in the universal appeal of liberty helped to steer the free world through treacherous times until communism was defeated and Europe emerged whole, free and a peace.
I was honoured to know her and to be inspired by her. Baroness Thatcher will be missed but generations will draw strength from the memory of her passion for freedom.
President Francois Hollande says:
"Throughout her public life, with conservative beliefs she fully assumed, she was concerned with the United Kingdom's influence and the defence of its interests.
She maintained a relationship with France that was frank and honest.
Together they (Baroness Thatcher and former French president Francois Mitterrand) worked to strengthen the ties between our two countries. And it was at this time that Mrs Thatcher gave the decisive impetus to the construction of the cross-Channel tunnel.
Helmut Kohl says:
"I greatly valued Margaret Thatcher for her love of freedom, her incomparable openness, honesty and straightforwardness
Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai said: "Prime Minister Thatcher was one of the greatest leaders the world knew.”
President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf of Liberia, who in 2005 became the first female president of an African country, says:
"I admired her strength and tenacity. I admired her ability to make decisions, even when they were unpopular. And that's why she was called the Iron Lady, and I dare say that I'm also called the Iron Lady."
I think you need to go and lie down in a darkened room and get a grip of yourself.
Notable how many smug or bitter lefties still feel the need today to define themselves against Margaret Thatcher. Let them celebrate: they lost then and are losing again now. Her death changes nothing; her legacy endures. Their parties by contrast are nothing but an empty echo of their own impotence.
I've just realised: part of the reason for lefty bitterness about Thatcher is that THEY DON'T HAVE A POLITICAL HERO. Blair was a tragic disappointment, thanks to Iraq and the Bust; Brown was a comic disaster.
John Smith died. Kinnock lost. Wilson was mediocre and went mad. And so on. You have to go back to Attlee and even he was just a bureaucrat with nice ideas, not exactly inspiring.
They don't have anyone to revere. This, I am sure, explains some of their strange loathing and envy of Thatcher, and also their ludicrous over-inflation of Mandela as an historical figure - he is their surrogate Thatcher, their Kennedy, their special someone - even though Mandela is a complete foreigner.
But rightwingers should not gloat too much. Thatcher's exalted status is double edged, as I have said: all succeeding Tory leaders pale in comparison.
The first Tory leader to Get Past Thatcher could be the next great Tory PM. But it certainly ain't Cameron.
I think your mistake Sean is in thinking there's a need for any political hero, left or right. Most people in the world find politics fairly dull, and politicians up there with estate agents in terms of worthiness. You can assign whatever cause you like to this, but whilst some middle age man in Thailand may shed a tear, a great many people here today are ambivalent. If it had happened twenty years ago I'd have been crying with you. But I've come to see she was flawed.
(By the way your Mandela comment is unworthy of you.)
Avery, Ditto , I am in no way perturbed given I have a sense of humour and have enjoyed your posts today, though I am not a man for the sychophantic gushing going on at present , with all sorts of nonentities professing their love for Margaret. It is a sad testament to the state this country is in that we have this faux emotion by so many fakers nowadays.
Can't help but think your trolling is a little bit tasteless on today. Please show a little respect. Tomorrow you can try and provoke a Left/Right row.
Just saying. I think you are a little to keen to start point scoring. I wouldn't its in the same league a Mensch. An increasing Lembit style character who is so desperate for attention her comments get even more and more extreme.
My memories of Margaret Thatcher,I first saw her at a Student Demo,when I was part of the "Thatcher Snatcher " protest,well you do Demos when you are a student,I later met her at a Garden party in Ilkley,or maybe Bingley. I well remember the strikes,and I owned a large ex ICI site which we allowed the internal roads to be used as a means for strike breakers to gain access to the Nuclear power stations at Heysham. The power stations were under construction at the time,and were atrocious for their strikes,most locals thought they were a job creation scheme and not intended ever to be completed. The miners strikes speeded up Heysham phase 1,and it finally came on line beating phase 2 but only just. Meanwhile my struggling company,with just a few employees were renting generators to combat the 3 day week. Nobody would work for me,because the power station paid twice as much,and you did not have to do anything except strike.When the inevitable run down of workers at the power staion occurred I would not employ ex power station people,their expectations had ruined them. I later went on to employ 120 people,this would not have happened in the pre Thatcher era. It was the days of the "Allegro,and Red Robbo",wait 3 months to get a telephone line connection,and even then it was a party line,etc
Thatcher was a powerful force for good,and no doubt she saved the UK from terminal decline. RIP
@AndreaParma_82 From the top of my head, a motion to the effect that the Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown to make out a new writ for the electing of a Member of Parliament has precedence, and may be continued with if opposed, on any day other than that at which private Members' Bills have precedence (Standing Order 19). Happy to be corrected about that if mistaken.
'But the proposal was overwhelmingly defeated by the Conservative-led council, which has 38 Conservative councillors to Labour's seven and 12 Independents with one Lib Dem. Councillors voted 40 against and only seven in favour.'
Black Swan event that reminds everyone how good the 80's actually were as opposed to the leftie spin and that voting for Ed is as close to madness as you can get?
Guardia Editorial tomorrow - She was an exceptionally consequential leader, in many ways a very great woman. There should be no dancing on her grave but it is right there is no state funeral either. Her legacy is of public division, private selfishness and a cult of greed, which together shackle far more of the human spirit than they ever set free.
Sean, it was more your remark about over-inflating Mandela although I'm unsure in some ways what foreigner means these days, and certainly many in Africa regard him as father of the continent. He's held in well-earned worldwide affection for all sorts of reasons including his graciousness in recent years, something you could learn a little from ('gaylord' being your latest inappropriate comment).
'But the proposal was overwhelmingly defeated by the Conservative-led council, which has 38 Conservative councillors to Labour's seven and 12 Independents with one Lib Dem. Councillors voted 40 against and only seven in favour.'
The Grantham Museum are raising money for a statue of Mrs Thatcher.
Glad to see you on the site, it has taken awhile for me to get used to your posting style, but I now realise that whatever you are posting, those who read it should think the complete opposite of what you are actually saying and then they wont be far off the mark..
Saw Thatcher once in a hotel near Newcastle Airport - the power had been turned off the day before as they swept for bombs (funny Gerry Adams did not mentioned the IRA's failed attempt to murder her) - she was surprisingly short and heavily made up ("camera ready") - as she waddled through the lobby she chatted with the cleaning ladies then swept into the hall.
Michael Crick on C4 doing vox pops in Liverpool - not entirely getting the response he was expecting.
"She was a great leader"
"But she's not very popular in Liverpool"
"Maybe the Prime Ministers job is not about being popular"
Margaret Thatcher's funeral to be on Thurdsay 2nd May. Her dying wish was to be buried with the party she had led and loved.
That's a really good one. Whose is it?
Watching Major on C4. Can't believe he's 70 (apart from the worryingly wheezy voice)... he doesn't look it.
An overly sensitive microphone perhaps, or poor sound editing? It doesn't sound like poor health - unlike the interviews with Lord McAlpine earlier last year.
Can't help thinking the similarly gushing "whatever you thought of her politics" tone we're seeing from more neutral sources is somewhat inappropriate though.
'But the proposal was overwhelmingly defeated by the Conservative-led council, which has 38 Conservative councillors to Labour's seven and 12 Independents with one Lib Dem. Councillors voted 40 against and only seven in favour.'
The Grantham Museum are raising money for a statue of Mrs Thatcher.
Thatcher needs far more than a few statues erected in Grantham and the Falklands and other key places associated with her life.
Most right thinking people rate her contribution to the UK as being at least as great as that of Nelson for example.
Perhaps Canary Wharf or Parliament Square could be renamed in her honour? As a stepping stone to such honours why not rename Brewers Green as Thatcher Close?
I am sure other PBers can come up with other suggestions equally deserving of our attention.
She was that most polarizing of beings: a conviction politician. In our current age of weak leaders transfixed by oncoming global crises like rabbits in the headlights, it’s sobering to realize that the Lady’s not for returning.
Margaret Thatcher's funeral to be on Thurdsay 2nd May. Her dying wish was to be buried with the party she had led and loved.
That's a really good one. Whose is it?
Watching Major on C4. Can't believe he's 70 (apart from the worryingly wheezy voice)... he doesn't look it.
An overly sensitive microphone perhaps, or poor sound editing? It doesn't sound like poor health - unlike the interviews with Lord McAlpine earlier last year.
The Conservative MP`S in November 1990 showed no respect in her departure from Downing Street they reveled in the speed and brutality of the demise of a 3 time winner.
Blair in comparison at least left in more dignified, way with Cameron leading the applause.
BBC getting a tiny bit of flack for their presenters not wearing black ties, which I think is a bit OTT. Where do you draw the line for black tie-status?
Saying that, if they don't wear black tie when HM (god bless er) eventually departs, there will be hell to pay.
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
Just watched a live clip of Jane Hill standing in the cold outside 10, Downing Street given that Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990; it must be one of the insanities of 24 News reporting.
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
You can thank Blair and Brown for devising her funeral.
Fraser Nelson - I was once introduced to Margaret Thatcher as a “Scottish Tory”. Her response was a rather brilliant one-liner: “Ah, so you’re the one.” RIP
Just watched a live clip of Jane Hill standing in the cold outside 10, Downing Street given that Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990; it must be one of the insanities of 24 News reporting.
She may have left office in 1990, but Number 10 will always be Maggies Den to some...
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
You wait til they build the sixteen yard high solid gold simulacrum of a coal miner's ugly little face being crushed under a brave policeman's boot, in her honour, in one of the pit villages of South Yorkshire.
Lol fair play.
I'm sure there will be many, ahem, rites of remembrance north and west of Birmingham this evening and on the day itself though.
One thing that strikes me, from the wall to wall coverage of Thatcher's death, is how p!$$ poor the modern politician is. Its almost like they are homeopathic politicians, a watered down version, that claims to be significantly more powerful than they actually are.
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
@Carl Her last great service will be to the police earning all that extra overtime. I am sure she would have approved.
Interesting take on Mags on C4 at the moment - hour long doc: ''Maggie & Me'... as a young reporter, Jon Snow reported live on Margaret Thatcher becoming Britain's first female Prime Minister. Jon shares his personal recollections of the woman who dominated his early career.' He's interviewing less than usual suspects who knew her. Live on line too.
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
The taxpayer will be making a profit, Carl.
I understand Rupert Murdoch has bought exclusive broadcast rights in the US for his Fox channels. The fee paid will make up around 90% of the total costs of staging the funeral.
If you then add just the fees paid by Chinese State TV and the European Broadcasting Union for similar rights then the whole shebang will make a return on taxpayer investment of over 100% in less than three weeks.
Thatcherite support for privatisation of state activities and the principle of free markets will triumph even beyond her death.
You must remember Thatcher's reforms were truly transformational.
Just watched a live clip of Jane Hill standing in the cold outside 10, Downing Street given that Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990; it must be one of the insanities of 24 News reporting.
Absolutely. The country has done itself proud in many ways. We should definitely have a significant and long debate about the merits and cons of Thatchers premiership. She was a politician after all and its our duty to discuss what works and doesn't.
But we can do that anytime. For now we should wish her family the best and let her be. We have the rest of history to discuss her politics and policies.
One thing that strikes me, from the wall to wall coverage of Thatcher's death, is how p!$$ poor the modern politician is. Its almost like they are homeopathic politicians, a watered down version, that claims to be significantly more powerful than they actually are.
Yeah that's true.
But it's surely just a function of our modern media. 24 hour trivia driven, scrabbling amongst themselves for tiny shreds of political "narrative", lightweight, superficial. Politicians have to be beige these days. Another Thatcher legacy, ironically.
Interesting take on Mags on C4 at the moment - hour long doc: ''Maggie & Me'... as a young reporter, Jon Snow reported live on Margaret Thatcher becoming Britain's first female Prime Minister. Jon shares his personal recollections of the woman who dominated his early career.' He's interviewing less than usual suspects who knew her. Live on line too.
It's really good. Catch it later on 4oD if you can't watch it now.
I thought the moderate was asking you calm down on your words below.Maybe not.
"You wait til they build the sixteen yard high solid gold simulacrum of a coal miner's ugly little face being crushed under a brave policeman's boot, in her honour, in one of the pit villages of South Yorkshire."
Absolutely. The country has done itself proud in many ways. We should definitely have a significant and long debate about the merits and cons of Thatchers premiership. She was a politician after all and its our duty to discuss what works and doesn't.
But we can do that anytime. For now we should wish her family the best and let her be. We have the rest of history to discuss her politics and policies.
Odd to think the political argument is over 45p (or 50p or 40p) in the pound income tax when Thatcher cut it from 83p to 40p. I'm told from particular types of investments it could reach 98 pence in the pound.
'This woman is headstrong, obstinate and dangerously self-opinionated" ICI personnel dept on rejecting Margaret Roberts for a job in 1948' They were very perceptive. It was all destined to end in tears.
She was an unbalanced woman, a political bunny-boiler, whose cabinets imploded, and was in the end dragged screaming from Downing Street. Her malign influence wrecked her own party for at least a generation.
And the early "Iron Lady" tosh was merely a function of her wimpish male opponents' understandable inability to find a way of kicking a woman in the goolies...
Interesting take on Mags on C4 at the moment - hour long doc: ''Maggie & Me'... as a young reporter, Jon Snow reported live on Margaret Thatcher becoming Britain's first female Prime Minister. Jon shares his personal recollections of the woman who dominated his early career.' He's interviewing less than usual suspects who knew her. Live on line too.
It's really good. Catch it later on 4oD if you can't watch it now.
'This woman is headstrong, obstinate and dangerously self-opinionated" ICI personnel dept on rejecting Margaret Roberts for a job in 1948' They were very perceptive. It was all destined to end in tears.
She was an unbalanced woman, a political bunny-boiler, whose cabinets imploded, and was in the end dragged screaming from Downing Street. Her malign influence wrecked her own party for at least a generation.
And the early "Iron Lady" tosh was merely a function of her wimpish male opponents' understandable inability to find a way of kicking a woman in the goolies...
'This woman is headstrong, obstinate and dangerously self-opinionated" ICI personnel dept on rejecting Margaret Roberts for a job in 1948' They were very perceptive. It was all destined to end in tears.
She was an unbalanced woman, a political bunny-boiler, whose cabinets imploded, and was in the end dragged screaming from Downing Street. Her malign influence wrecked her own party for at least a generation.
And the early "Iron Lady" tosh was merely a function of her wimpish male opponents' understandable inability to find a way of kicking a woman in the goolies...
“I have always said that Mrs Thatcher was a great inspiration to me personally. Whether you loved her or hated her nobody could deny that she was a great patriot, who believed passionately in this country and her people.
“A towering figure in recent British and political history has passed from the stage. Our thoughts and prayers are with her family.”
I think today we've seen a clear distinction between the old left and new left. The old style class warriors such as Livingstone and Galloway just rant on in their sick, bitter, twisted hate filled way. Unable to recognise that part of Thatchers legacy is the evolving of their basic philosophy into a market accepting, (even market friendly), civilized movement, that for all it's differences with the right, is modern and generally at ease with the changes of the late 20th century.
Private ownership and profit are no longer dirty words, Blair AND Brown helped see to that. The unions are humbled and their bleating is generally ignored. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Thatcher didn't actually defeat the left, she dragged it along, (kicking and screaming at first), into the modern age. For all our differences now, we no longer fear extremism such as Soviet style communism, for such risk no longer exists. The Labour party of today is a movement controlled, for and by, a class/elite way removed from it's founding principles.
The old style left, what remains of it, doesn't despise Thatcher for what she achieved in changing Britain. They hate her for destroying the thing they loved so dearly, the left and socialism itself.
Some of the most genuine and moving tributes today have come from those who despite their differences with Maggie, realise how much they admired her. Even Ed Miliband showed a maturity I doubted in him before today. Maybe for all the so called division she caused, her greatest achievement was the consensus that we now all take for granted in many areas. Many of us on the right may urge further movement our way, but away from a centre ground that was unimaginable 30 years ago.
And when Galloway or Livingstone finally depart this world, who will mourn or remember them? They are the last of a near extinct breed, for which we should all be grateful.
'Farage is riding high in the polls and attracting thousands of new members. Rob Watts joins him on his two week national tour ahead of the local elections in May.'
Comments
http://twitpic.com/chz86q
Like Harold Wilson she had a long slow decline which would have been a difficult cross for her loved ones to bear.
Miliband's tribute like Blair's shows that they are bigger men than some of the more wild twitter responses.
The Tories as a whole need to get past Thatcher, not in the sense of not being on the side of freedom / liberty / sound money / a belief in what Britain can achieve etc but in terms of understanding how this applies to the country as it is now. They are still - to a very large extent - trying to apply policies needed in the early 80's to today's problems rather than working from first principles and coming up with policies and a clear message for today.
Hence all the garbage about whether someone is too Thatcherite or not Thatcherite enough. It's all garbage. Cut out the focus groups. Have a clear belief, say it clearly in language people can understand and then apply it to the problems you face.
It's the first two which are largely missing from today's politicians, whether from the left or right. Hence the problems they are all having with the third.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-editorial
F*cked if I know, I thought the Conservatives voting the statue down was the nub of the matter. I guess they may be feeling a little dickish at the moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4N0yfWvrD0
(By the way your Mandela comment is unworthy of you.)
Can't help but think your trolling is a little bit tasteless on today. Please show a little respect. Tomorrow you can try and provoke a Left/Right row.
But best not today.
Just saying. I think you are a little to keen to start point scoring. I wouldn't its in the same league a Mensch. An increasing Lembit style character who is so desperate for attention her comments get even more and more extreme.
I well remember the strikes,and I owned a large ex ICI site which we allowed the internal roads to be used as a means for strike breakers to gain access to the Nuclear power stations at Heysham. The power stations were under construction at the time,and were atrocious for their strikes,most locals thought they were a job creation scheme and not intended ever to be completed.
The miners strikes speeded up Heysham phase 1,and it finally came on line beating phase 2 but only just.
Meanwhile my struggling company,with just a few employees were renting generators to combat the 3 day week. Nobody would work for me,because the power station paid twice as much,and you did not have to do anything except strike.When the inevitable run down of workers at the power staion occurred I would not employ ex power station people,their expectations had ruined them.
I later went on to employ 120 people,this would not have happened in the pre Thatcher era.
It was the days of the "Allegro,and Red Robbo",wait 3 months to get a telephone line connection,and even then it was a party line,etc
Thatcher was a powerful force for good,and no doubt she saved the UK from terminal decline.
RIP
'But the proposal was overwhelmingly defeated by the Conservative-led council, which has 38 Conservative councillors to Labour's seven and 12 Independents with one Lib Dem. Councillors voted 40 against and only seven in favour.'
Black Swan event that reminds everyone how good the 80's actually were as opposed to the leftie spin and that voting for Ed is as close to madness as you can get?
Back to Margaret Thatcher ...
'But the proposal was overwhelmingly defeated by the Conservative-led council, which has 38 Conservative councillors to Labour's seven and 12 Independents with one Lib Dem. Councillors voted 40 against and only seven in favour.'
The Grantham Museum are raising money for a statue of Mrs Thatcher.
http://www.margaretthatcherstatue.org
http://www.granthammuseum.org.uk
Glad to see you on the site, it has taken awhile for me to get used to your posting style, but I now realise that whatever you are posting, those who read it should think the complete opposite of what you are actually saying and then they wont be far off the mark..
Watching Major on C4. Can't believe he's 70 (apart from the worryingly wheezy voice)... he doesn't look it.
Michael Crick on C4 doing vox pops in Liverpool - not entirely getting the response he was expecting.
"She was a great leader"
"But she's not very popular in Liverpool"
"Maybe the Prime Ministers job is not about being popular"
Down the allotment for a few hours, it feels like a long dark winter has finally lifted, and spring has sprung.
Might even be time to crack open a little something. Cheers!
Can't help thinking the similarly gushing "whatever you thought of her politics" tone we're seeing from more neutral sources is somewhat inappropriate though.
http://www.margaretthatcherstatue.org
http://www.granthammuseum.org.uk
Thatcher needs far more than a few statues erected in Grantham and the Falklands and other key places associated with her life.
Most right thinking people rate her contribution to the UK as being at least as great as that of Nelson for example.
Perhaps Canary Wharf or Parliament Square could be renamed in her honour? As a stepping stone to such honours why not rename Brewers Green as Thatcher Close?
I am sure other PBers can come up with other suggestions equally deserving of our attention.
Come back another day if you want an argument Sean.
Blair in comparison at least left in more dignified, way with Cameron leading the applause.
Saying that, if they don't wear black tie when HM (god bless er) eventually departs, there will be hell to pay.
He shouldn't push himself though. It would be a tragedy if the coincidence of Princess Diana and Mother Teresa's deaths were to repeat itself.
I'm sure she'd have approved. :^O
On the day before the funeral, the coffin will be moved to Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster. There will be a short service following its arrival. The coffin will rest in the Chapel overnight.
On the day itself, the streets will be cleared of traffic and the coffin will travel by hearse from the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft in the Palace of Westminster to the Church of St Clement Danes, the RAF Chapel, on the Strand.
At the Church the coffin will be transferred to a gun carriage drawn by the King’s Troop Royal Artillery. The coffin will then be borne in Procession from St Clement Danes to St Paul’s Cathedral. The route will be lined by tri-service military personnel.
The coffin will be met at St Paul’s Cathedral by a guard of honour. Tri-service personnel and Pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea will line the steps of St Paul’s Cathedral.
I'm sure there will be many, ahem, rites of remembrance north and west of Birmingham this evening and on the day itself though.
Very sad and actually disrespectful to her legacy. I can only guess Sean is annoyed given the left (especially on PB) has just let her be.
I think Miliband got it right today. Shame SeanT is in one of these moods.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-and-scotland-a-story-of-mutual-incomprehension/
Her last great service will be to the police earning all that extra overtime. I am sure she would have approved.
I understand Rupert Murdoch has bought exclusive broadcast rights in the US for his Fox channels. The fee paid will make up around 90% of the total costs of staging the funeral.
If you then add just the fees paid by Chinese State TV and the European Broadcasting Union for similar rights then the whole shebang will make a return on taxpayer investment of over 100% in less than three weeks.
Thatcherite support for privatisation of state activities and the principle of free markets will triumph even beyond her death.
You must remember Thatcher's reforms were truly transformational.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2825e446-a044-11e2-88b6-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2PtvI3K5G
Absolutely. The country has done itself proud in many ways. We should definitely have a significant and long debate about the merits and cons of Thatchers premiership. She was a politician after all and its our duty to discuss what works and doesn't.
But we can do that anytime. For now we should wish her family the best and let her be. We have the rest of history to discuss her politics and policies.
But it's surely just a function of our modern media. 24 hour trivia driven, scrabbling amongst themselves for tiny shreds of political "narrative", lightweight, superficial. Politicians have to be beige these days. Another Thatcher legacy, ironically.
I thought the moderate was asking you calm down on your words below.Maybe not.
"You wait til they build the sixteen yard high solid gold simulacrum of a coal miner's ugly little face being crushed under a brave policeman's boot, in her honour, in one of the pit villages of South Yorkshire."
Go on, say it, you know you want to.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10340306.Death_of_Margaret_Thatcher___reaction/
They were very perceptive. It was all destined to end in tears.
She was an unbalanced woman, a political bunny-boiler, whose cabinets imploded, and was in the end dragged screaming from Downing Street. Her malign influence wrecked her own party for at least a generation.
And the early "Iron Lady" tosh was merely a function of her wimpish male opponents' understandable inability to find a way of kicking a woman in the goolies...
Thanks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9976506/Nigel-Farage-savours-the-Heineken-effect.html
“I have always said that Mrs Thatcher was a great inspiration to me personally. Whether you loved her or hated her nobody could deny that she was a great patriot, who believed passionately in this country and her people.
“A towering figure in recent British and political history has passed from the stage. Our thoughts and prayers are with her family.”
And so say most of us here on PB.
Private ownership and profit are no longer dirty words, Blair AND Brown helped see to that. The unions are humbled and their bleating is generally ignored. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Thatcher didn't actually defeat the left, she dragged it along, (kicking and screaming at first), into the modern age. For all our differences now, we no longer fear extremism such as Soviet style communism, for such risk no longer exists. The Labour party of today is a movement controlled, for and by, a class/elite way removed from it's founding principles.
The old style left, what remains of it, doesn't despise Thatcher for what she achieved in changing Britain. They hate her for destroying the thing they loved so dearly, the left and socialism itself.
Some of the most genuine and moving tributes today have come from those who despite their differences with Maggie, realise how much they admired her. Even Ed Miliband showed a maturity I doubted in him before today. Maybe for all the so called division she caused, her greatest achievement was the consensus that we now all take for granted in many areas. Many of us on the right may urge further movement our way, but away from a centre ground that was unimaginable 30 years ago.
And when Galloway or Livingstone finally depart this world, who will mourn or remember them? They are the last of a near extinct breed, for which we should all be grateful.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9976506/Nigel-Farage-savours-the-Heineken-effect.html
Edit: sorry sam, just seen you'd posted.