I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
In Las Vegas the woman suspected accomplice is married to a prominent Trump hater apparently.
It wouldn't be against the realms of possibility as the left have lost their minds over Trump.
"apparently"
Source?
Several US news outlets have released the name of the woman.
And the source for the "trump hater" bit?
Her Facebook page. Although now the news reporting they may have identified the wrong woman.
MAGA lynch mob sheepishly put down their pitchforks.
The Police Chief this morning 'the shooter is dead, currently'
"What is the condition of Sergeant Kruger? [pause] Very well, let me know if there is any change in his condition. [Hangs up] He's dead."
Many years ago I had, professionally, to visit a hospice, and sit in on the weekly team meetings. At one of these the Sister in Charge, reporting on the patient in Room 1 said that there’d been such an improivement in condition that she’d sent the relatibves home for some rest. At that moment a junior nurse popped her head round the door to say that the patient in Room 1 had died. Sister picked up the phone, and contacted the relatives, telling them to come back ‘as there’d been a dramatic development!'
Conservatives would do well to ponder why quite a few left-leaning moderates consider their asylum more fully taken over by lunatics than the Labour asylum.
I suspect that instead they will prefer to growl at those delivering the news.
Because they're left.
Lefties view any righties with suspicion and vice-versa is also true. A moderate righty is already quite extreme as far as a lefty is concerned (and vice-versa) so it takes very little movement further right to be viewed as a "lunatic".
It's a theory. It's a theory that pays absolutely no regard to how horrified the average left-leaning moderate is about Jeremy Corbyn.
For now, I'm intent on a policy of belligerent abstention, going to the polling booth and spoiling my ballot paper. I see no reason to endorse either set of nutjobs.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
There was a sketch of him - drawn when he was in court. Lots of frizzy hair.
Conservatives would do well to ponder why quite a few left-leaning moderates consider their asylum more fully taken over by lunatics than the Labour asylum.
I suspect that instead they will prefer to growl at those delivering the news.
Because they're left.
Lefties view any righties with suspicion and vice-versa is also true. A moderate righty is already quite extreme as far as a lefty is concerned (and vice-versa) so it takes very little movement further right to be viewed as a "lunatic".
It's a theory. It's a theory that pays absolutely no regard to how horrified the average left-leaning moderate is about Jeremy Corbyn.
For now, I'm intent on a policy of belligerent abstention, going to the polling booth and spoiling my ballot paper. I see no reason to endorse either set of nutjobs.
I am one of those left leaning moderates who is horrified by Jeremy Corbyn, but we are very rare in number. Exhibit 1 is the 40% of the country that voted for him, which must include the majority of the centre left. Exhibit 2 is Labour moderates like Don Brind getting on the Corbyn train and genuinely arguing he would improve the economic management of the country.
I voted for Blair, Brown and Miliband but I feel my party has left me. I am surprised my fellow travellers only problem with Corbyn turned out to be their concerns bout electability.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
The deportation letters were indeed sent by mistake, and that was a Home Office official’s mistake. Might be the culture and attitude emantating from those in charge of course, but they strike me as a jobsworth’s actions.
However, we’ve no evidence that ALL have been quickly rectified. The reported ones have been; how about any unreported poor souls who obediently packed up bag and baggage and left unneccesarily?
And it would be helpful if Amber Rudd was reported as having blown a gasket over the matter!
Conservatives would do well to ponder why quite a few left-leaning moderates consider their asylum more fully taken over by lunatics than the Labour asylum.
I suspect that instead they will prefer to growl at those delivering the news.
Because they're left.
Lefties view any righties with suspicion and vice-versa is also true. A moderate righty is already quite extreme as far as a lefty is concerned (and vice-versa) so it takes very little movement further right to be viewed as a "lunatic".
It's a theory. It's a theory that pays absolutely no regard to how horrified the average left-leaning moderate is about Jeremy Corbyn.
For now, I'm intent on a policy of belligerent abstention, going to the polling booth and spoiling my ballot paper. I see no reason to endorse either set of nutjobs.
I'd regard myself as an "average left-leaning moderate" who has moved from hostility (late 2015), to resignation/ambivalence (post Owen Smith until the tory dementia tax u-turn), to enthusiasm (post-election).
The 2017 manifesto wasn't bonkers at all. It was middle-of-the-road European social democracy-level tax/spend.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Ok, a few short examples..
Contempt for Europe: Plenty of evidence for this, but spending 12 months of critical negotiation time blustering, vacillating, threatening and generally failing to engage in detailed or positive negotiation would be a start.
Contempt for the Poor: Universal Credit, a disaster in slow motion. Rees-Mogg sees foodbanks as 'uplifting'.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Contempt for Liberal values: Tory majority opposing same sex marriage, daily comments by pb Tories decrying metropolitan liberals, etc.
Contempt for the young: Before election, PB tories routinely laughing about how the kids wouldn't get out of bed or put their play stations down to vote.
Contempt for the environment: Failure to address air quality targets, failure to consider evidence based solutions to bovine TB, flooding, failure to deal with the decimation of upland wildlife by keepers, failure to take biodiversity decline seriously.
If this is an attempt to unify the Tories and instil in them a renewed sense of purpose and vigour, then it's clumsy but you are on the right lines.
I voted for Blair, Brown and Miliband but I feel my party has left me. I am surprised my fellow travellers only problem with Corbyn turned out to be their concerns bout electability.
Many people who a year or two ago were calling Corbyn a nutter and endorsing other potential leaders are now his fans, they must have changed their views (radically) as we know that Corbyn sure as hell hasn't changed his views during that period. It seems to me that the masses of quiet Labour moderates that were meant to exist were an invention to keep the spirits up of the few true moderates.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
The news everywhere is unremittingly grim. But I have to confess that I am in a buoyant mood this morning because after multiple delays to a publishing deadline that is getting on for 18 months overdue, I have delivered long-promised revisions to a technical publication. My conscience this morning is squeaky clean and I am bathed in a feeling of virtuous industry.
Not quite as sexy as SeanT's squllion dollar royalty cheques for his latest supernatural thriller, but you're getting there.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
There was a sketch of him - drawn when he was in court. Lots of frizzy hair.
Yeah a sketch was that was all that was shown of him, unlike every other high profile arrest that has photos released to the public.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
There was a sketch of him - drawn when he was in court. Lots of frizzy hair.
Yeah a sketch was that was all that was shown of him, unlike every other high profile arrest that has photos released to the public.
When there’s some obvious detail missing in a case, it’s usually a reasonable assumption that it’s something the prosecutors are going to bring up at trial and don’t want potential jurors to be aware of.
The CPS will have been paying closer attention to the guy’s story than immigration would have done.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
What sort of a government do you think would do the least damage to working class people?
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
It's perplexing that we need to go through this all over again, rather than learning a little from recent history. I simply can not understand how apparently otherwise intelligent people see anything positive in what Corbyn and McDonnell are saying. To me their proposals look like a recipe for an economic and fiscal disaster, surpassing the most pessimistic outcomes of Brexit.
The Tories are pretty hopeless right now, I'm fairly certain that a moderate Labour leader would have little trouble beating them, but instead we get some harebrained reheated 1970s style socialist claptrap that we ought to know by now will not work.
I'm coming to the conclusion I might have to vote for Corbyn. He'll offer the shorter lived but more entertaining of the two dystopias now on offer. We might as well do this with a degree of gusto and style. I'd rather the gaiety of a Robot Tax than the grim monotony of us still resenting the foreigners we're still going to let in to wipe out arses for minimum wage rather than pay people properly.
Snip
I'm prepared to take the gamble that there are enough sane minds in Labour to hold Corbyn's wilder excesses back. It's clear that that isn't the case as regards the sack of fighting ferrets convening in Manchester.
Geez this just reads like a teenager's rant.
It's more like anyone who doesn't like the Tories has irrational contempt for any of their views or actions.
As usual from you, no substantive content or rebuttal.
Keep looking inward, you are staring at a walloping of 1997 proportions, the way you are going.
Rebuttal to what exactly?
You've just said the Tories have contempt for everyone based on nothing but your own imagination.
Contempt for Immigrants: Heavy handed deportation letters sent off willy-nilly to folk who have every right to be here. Slowness at dealing with EU citizens rights, right wing press mockery of 'child refugees'.
Oh right you are listing every perceived slight from any Tory ever. You could do that for any group and especially Labour (see their "hang Tories" banner in Manchester for details).
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Absolutely!
We need more robots not less.
Well, we could probably do without one particular robot.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
The whole ivory tax and hunting ban stuff, why even mention them. Even if you think changing them is a sensible idea, just do it a couple of years after you have won the GE.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Agreed, holding back technological progress is a mug's game that would make us poorer in the short and long term. We need a serious answer to what we do if and when large numbers of low-skilled workers become unemployable though. It'd be nice to think everyone could be educated or retrained to work with robots rather than be replaced by them, how feasible that really is I don't know.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
It's perplexing that we need to go through this all over again, rather than learning a little from recent history. I simply can not understand how apparently otherwise intelligent people see anything positive in what Corbyn and McDonnell are saying. To me their proposals look like a recipe for an economic and fiscal disaster, surpassing the most pessimistic outcomes of Brexit.
The Tories are pretty hopeless right now, I'm fairly certain that a moderate Labour leader would have little trouble beating them, but instead we get some harebrained reheated 1970s style socialist claptrap that we ought to know by now will not work.
As someone suggested on here yesterday, maybe we need five years of solcialism every half a century - just to remind the younger members of society what it’s actually like in practice?
The whole ivory tax and hunting ban stuff, why even mention them. Even if you think changing them is a sensible idea, just do it a couple of years after you have won the GE.
You might think that, but you are clearly not an "expert" at what it takes to win a general election.
The Big Lie is the straw man you and other Labour figures put up to try and wriggle off the hook.
The Tories argued that you were responsible for the UK's complete lack of preparedness to handle to consequences of the crash, not that you started it.
Tories have proven in eight years they can do no better. The Tory logo represents their own magic money tree, ready at short notice to fund their own pet projects, like Brexit.
We have a choice between two malign and incompetent parties. Hobson's choice, frankly.
But, genuine question this: hasn't the deficit come down since 2010?
When it comes to pensions, the Tories have done far more tree-shaking than labour ever did with their absurd triple lock.
Compared to the damage tax credits have done the triple lock is almost irrelevant - that just gives older people more money, tax credits have removed the incentive for people to work and actual act for many people as an incentive not to work.
Huh - tax credits are mostly awarded to people in work?
The triple lock puts an unsustainable and ever increasing cost burden on the shoulders of the working age to pay for the elderly.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
What sort of a government do you think would do the least damage to working class people?
A thoughtful centre left government that balances growing the economy and redistributing wealth. Failing that, an economically moderate centre right one that is working to address a perceived vulnerability with the working class.
Sadly, I think we are in for 15 years of neither. Hard left knee jerk socialism with Corbyn followed by a resurgent Thatcherite/Osbornite faction taking over the Tories.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
Agreed, holding back technological progress is a mug's game that would make us poorer in the short and long term. We need a serious answer to what we do if and when large numbers of low-skilled workers become unemployable though. It'd be nice to think everyone could be educated or retrained to work with robots rather than be replaced by them, how feasible that really is I don't know.
I'm in favour of investing in training (and retraining), but I oppose trying to penalise the application of technology to pay for it. That simply favours the laggards in the economy, and hurts those who want to invest capital to improve efficiency. Richard's right, if we do want to steer the economy, then we ought to offer tax breaks to invest in automation. If we need more money for retraining then general taxation should pay for it.
Thanks to youngsters voting in such numbers for it to continue, I expect that it will be around for a long time, placing as you say an increasing cost burden on the shoulders of the working age to pay for the elderly. We should give due credit to our young people for being so generous.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
What sort of a government do you think would do the least damage to working class people?
A thoughtful centre left government that balances growing the economy and redistributing wealth. Failing that, an economically moderate centre right one that is working to address a perceived vulnerability with the working class.
Sadly, I think we are in for 15 years of neither. Hard left knee jerk socialism with Corbyn followed by a resurgent Thatcherite/Osbornite faction taking over the Tories.
I think you are right but today, in our current environment, I don't think people want more of the same-ish with a few tweaks here and there (which of course was what the non-Jezza candidates in the Lab leadership contest offered).
People want bold moves to fix a socio-political model they believe has failed. And if it has failed them then who's to say that perception is wrong.
We are in the land of broad brush strokes and extremes and I tend to agree with you that it will take 10-15 years for such a mood to wear off, as people exhaust the alternatives to find that they cannot provide the elixir they seek.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Absolutely!
We need more robots not less.
F.E.W.E.R.
Sheesh!!
Philip Thompson should be made to write one hundred times:
As someone suggested on here yesterday, maybe we need five years of solcialism every half a century - just to remind the younger members of society what it’s actually like in practice?
Could we not make them watch a boxset on Netflix or the iPlayer instead?
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Absolutely!
We need more robots not less.
Well, we could probably do without one particular robot.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
We have been here before. Some prat was proposing a tax on all internet sales in the early 00s.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Absolutely!
We need more robots not less.
F.E.W.E.R.
Sheesh!!
Philip Thompson should be made to write one hundred times:
"Fewer not less".
One hundred is a lot; I would be happy with him writing it out less times.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
Why would increased efficiency cause an increase in unemployment or a reduced tax base? It never has before, overall (although of course you get disruption in specific industries as change occurs).
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Absolutely!
We need more robots not less.
F.E.W.E.R.
Sheesh!!
Philip Thompson should be made to write one hundred times:
It's perplexing that we need to go through this all over again, rather than learning a little from recent history. I simply can not understand how apparently otherwise intelligent people see anything positive in what Corbyn and McDonnell are saying. To me their proposals look like a recipe for an economic and fiscal disaster, surpassing the most pessimistic outcomes of Brexit
Most people do not have the time for detailed political analysis, so look at it from a very simplistic viewpoint:
- Corbyn seems to be getting Labour united and organised
- The Tories seem to be indulging in civil war and all over the place
On that basis, which one looks like offering better governance?
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
People currently doing jobs like washing cars and making coffee aren’t paying any income tax, but are taking up scarce housing and public services. We need to get them doing something more productive with their labour.
Mr. Z, I believe Bob Crow wanted a small tax (maybe a penny) on every e-mail, and the EU right now is progressing down the path of taxing links to news sites.
Thanks to youngsters voting in such numbers for it to continue, I expect that it will be around for a long time, placing as you say an increasing cost burden on the shoulders of the working age to pay for the elderly. We should give due credit to our young people for being so generous.
The triple lock is sustainable indefinitely if you keep increasing the pension age.
FWIW, the change the Tories put forward in the manifesto would have been trivial in terms of effect, which is one reason why it was such awful politics. (The smart politics would be to keep the wording but change the definition of the triple lock, to, for example, using the median of the three values, rather than the highest).
Agreed, holding back technological progress is a mug's game that would make us poorer in the short and long term. We need a serious answer to what we do if and when large numbers of low-skilled workers become unemployable though. It'd be nice to think everyone could be educated or retrained to work with robots rather than be replaced by them, how feasible that really is I don't know.
I'm in favour of investing in training (and retraining), but I oppose trying to penalise the application of technology to pay for it. That simply favours the laggards in the economy, and hurts those who want to invest capital to improve efficiency. Richard's right, if we do want to steer the economy, then we ought to offer tax breaks to invest in automation. If we need more money for retraining then general taxation should pay for it.
How to pay for it isn't the hard part - a Wealth Tax or better yet a Land Value Tax. The question with (re)training is how many of those current or future unskilled workers can realistically be (re)trained to the point where they have a place in an increasingly automated economy. If not possibilities like UBI or limiting working hours have to be considered, but these aren't without downsides.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
Why would increased efficiency cause an increase in unemployment or a reduced tax base? It never has before, overall (although of course you get disruption in specific industries as change occurs).
because robots don't pay tax -- but see Jezza's musings earlier on this thread.
The whole ivory tax and hunting ban stuff, why even mention them. Even if you think changing them is a sensible idea, just do it a couple of years after you have won the GE.
You might think that, but you are clearly not an "expert" at what it takes to win a general election.
There must have been some folie a trois stuff going on between her and the gatekeepers. No individual however dim could have behaved that stupidly.
Is this one of the mornings where all those people who were super-concerned about immigrants stealing local workers' jobs are going to tell the people concerned about robots that they're Luddites?
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
Why would increased efficiency cause an increase in unemployment or a reduced tax base? It never has before, overall (although of course you get disruption in specific industries as change occurs).
because robots don't pay tax -- but see Jezza's musings earlier on this thread.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
What sort of a government do you think would do the least damage to working class people?
A thoughtful centre left government that balances growing the economy and redistributing wealth. Failing that, an economically moderate centre right one that is working to address a perceived vulnerability with the working class.
Sadly, I think we are in for 15 years of neither. Hard left knee jerk socialism with Corbyn followed by a resurgent Thatcherite/Osbornite faction taking over the Tories.
It wouldn't be an Osbornite faction taking over the Tories post defeat but a Moggite/Patelite faction
because robots don't pay tax -- but see Jezza's musings earlier on this thread.
Nor do combine harvesters, tractors, printing presses, or any of the myriad of other technologies which have brought us increasing prosperity over the last six hundred years or so.
The whole ivory tax and hunting ban stuff, why even mention them. Even if you think changing them is a sensible idea, just do it a couple of years after you have won the GE.
You might think that, but you are clearly not an "expert" at what it takes to win a general election.
There must have been some folie a trois stuff going on between her and the gatekeepers. No individual however dim could have behaved that stupidly.
As you are aware, the hunting ban announcement was to ensure that Vote OK turned out on the streets for them and she evidently thought that the half dozen seats she would lose as a result would be more than accounted for by the hundreds of extra hours canvassing and leafleting.
Is this one of the mornings where all those people who were super-concerned about immigrants stealing local workers' jobs are going to tell the people concerned about robots that they're Luddites?
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
employment levels or actual working hours. I suspect working tax credits have resulted in a lot of 16 "hour" contracts allowing people to maximise their benefit claims....
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
Voters have short memories. At the 2025 election economic damage will be blamed on the government, not an event seven years earlier. Corbyn will destroy Labour for a generation. It will be working class people who take the brunt of both Corbyn's hard left policies and the neo-Thatcherism that will inevitably follow.
What sort of a government do you think would do the least damage to working class people?
A thoughtful centre left government that balances growing the economy and redistributing wealth. Failing that, an economically moderate centre right one that is working to address a perceived vulnerability with the working class.
Sadly, I think we are in for 15 years of neither. Hard left knee jerk socialism with Corbyn followed by a resurgent Thatcherite/Osbornite faction taking over the Tories.
With Corbyn around the latter option seems less troublesome than it once did. As for the former, where is the spectre of Peter Wright when it is needed?
We do not need 5 minutes of a Momentum government let alone 5 years!
If you're saying the voters are stupid and the other side are lunatics- you are probably losing. Who would have thought Jezza would get the Tories on the run like this...!?
FWIW, the change the Tories put forward in the manifesto would have been trivial in terms of effect, which is one reason why it was such awful politics. (The smart politics would be to keep the wording but change the definition of the triple lock, to, for example, using the median of the three values, rather than the highest).
Yes, agreed, although I think that in terms of good government, it would be better to drop it altogether. I don't think putting arbitrary constraints on what you can do is a good idea. It is better to retain flexibility.
If you're saying the voters are stupid and the other side are lunatics- you are probably losing. Who would have thought Jezza would get the Tories on the run like this...!?
You can happily say that the other side are lunatics. But you must appear sane yourself, and therein lies the problem...
Is this one of the mornings where all those people who were super-concerned about immigrants stealing local workers' jobs are going to tell the people concerned about robots that they're Luddites?
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
I am hoping for a world where no one has to work for money - we all just make artwork and write novels, do science and get drunk. Robots bring us tasty food etc.
Is this one of the mornings where all those people who were super-concerned about immigrants stealing local workers' jobs are going to tell the people concerned about robots that they're Luddites?
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
employment levels or actual working hours. I suspect working tax credits have resulted in a lot of 16 "hour" contracts allowing people to maximise their benefit claims....
Working hours have increased faster in the last five years than the increase in employment levels:
Rather than a Robot Tax, we should continue doing what other successful countries do: encourage investment in new technologies. The problem in the UK isn't too many robots, it's getting business to invest enough in the first place. A robot tax break would be a much better policy than a robot tax.
Apparently investment that reduces work is bad investment.
Yeah, in the mad world of the Corbyn-fancying classes, low productivity is a problem in the UK but investment to improve productivity is bad.
But increased unemployment and a reduced tax base (once the robots do all the work) are OK because deficits don't matter ... or do they?
People currently doing jobs like washing cars and making coffee aren’t paying any income tax, but are taking up scarce housing and public services. We need to get them doing something more productive with their labour.
Yes very true with the personal allowance going upto £12500 many will not pay any income tax.On another note I read the other day many are not claiming the marriage allowance.Where if one partner is not working or earning under £11500 they can transfer their unused allowance £1050 to their partner who is paying income tax.
If you're saying the voters are stupid and the other side are lunatics- you are probably losing. Who would have thought Jezza would get the Tories on the run like this...!?
Is this one of the mornings where all those people who were super-concerned about immigrants stealing local workers' jobs are going to tell the people concerned about robots that they're Luddites?
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
employment levels or actual working hours. I suspect working tax credits have resulted in a lot of 16 "hour" contracts allowing people to maximise their benefit claims....
I’m inclined to agree. Fiddling with the system by government generally leads to fiddling with the system by recipients.
As someone who ran shops for some years I can see the possibilities of employing staff for just a few hours per wekk, thereby enabling to open the place for longer hours.
Not sure how Emplyers National Insurnace works now, though.
If you're saying the voters are stupid and the other side are lunatics- you are probably losing. Who would have thought Jezza would get the Tories on the run like this...!?
Not sure how Emplyers National Insurnace works now, though.
It is a masterful piece of misdirection where you think your employer is paying tax instead of you, but it is actually calculated on your salary and when you leave your employer stops paying it. So it is still an Employee tax.
So, basic rate tax + NI + Employer's NI adds up to about 40% and you can add pensions to that (increases from 2% to 5% in April and 8% in April 2019) and downwards pressure on wages is obvious.
Hammond speaking very well - though I totally disagree with him. I can see him as a serious and effective PM unlike Boris or Rees-Mogg.
I'd pegged Hammond as the grown-up choice to replace May but Conservatives don't seem to like him. Nonetheless, he may still win especially if his (or the Treasury) position on Brexit turns out to be the one we converge on.
If you're saying the voters are stupid and the other side are lunatics- you are probably losing. Who would have thought Jezza would get the Tories on the run like this...!?
Re Monksfield's post. On one hand, I think it would unfair to say all Tories have contempt for young people, immigrants, the environment etc. While I don't always agree with them PB Tories such as Big_G_NorthWales and another_richard always treat others with respect and I have not seen them demonise various different groups within society negatively. I enjoy reading their contributions.
Unfortunately, I do think that some of those on the right have a tendency to display the attitudes and views Monksfield outlined in his post. Monksfield is right when he says that several PB Tories - and those who weren't necessarily Conservatives but who were anti-Corbyn - had a huge issue with young people and characterised younger voters as lazy, social media obsessed idiots who would never vote. As per my previous post, I'd add in minorities too - we get some very ''interesting'' views on PB whenever a terrorist attack happens. We already saw some ''interesting'' views after Lammy's report was released.
Thoughts and prayers go out to those in Las Vegas and caught up in this attack. Looks like the deadliest mass shooting in US history.
Shocked when I woke up this morning to see 20 people had been killed, death toll is now up to 50.
Prior to breivik I was always surprised by how low body counts were in view of what is achievable with an automatic weapon against unarmed opponents. No longer the case sadly.
Comments
BREAKING: Las Vegas shooter has been identified as 64-year-old Stephen Paddock
But these examples are especially bonkers.
The deportation letters were sent by mistake and quickly rectified. Are you seriously trying to say that an administration error shows that all Tories have contempt for foreigners? Really? Have you any idea how mad that sounds?
And the Tories are responsible for everything the "right wing press" has ever said? Again mad.
And yes the press mocked the "child refugees" that were clearly not children, it was blindingly obvious to anyone with a half working brain. I notice that there has never been any photos shown of the "18 year old refugee" that tried to blow up a tube train recently. I wonder why that was.
At that moment a junior nurse popped her head round the door to say that the patient in Room 1 had died. Sister picked up the phone, and contacted the relatives, telling them to come back ‘as there’d been a dramatic development!'
I voted for Blair, Brown and Miliband but I feel my party has left me. I am surprised my fellow travellers only problem with Corbyn turned out to be their concerns bout electability.
The Left have united around him, and enough centrists who want revenge on the Tories for Brexit will vote for him notwithstanding what it will do to the economy.
In fact, that might partly be the point: economic fallout helps to discredit Brexit. The very worst thing would be to be proved wrong by people you voted for something you despise.
They are the enthusiastic cheerleaders for the reign of Bloody Mary following the reign of the ultra-radical Edward VI acting on the first Brexit mandate of his father, Henry VIII. They want burnings at the stake, and merciless retribution.
The rest of us must wait for it to fizzle out, and Elizabeth I to take charge.
However, we’ve no evidence that ALL have been quickly rectified. The reported ones have been; how about any unreported poor souls who obediently packed up bag and baggage and left unneccesarily?
And it would be helpful if Amber Rudd was reported as having blown a gasket over the matter!
The 2017 manifesto wasn't bonkers at all. It was middle-of-the-road European social democracy-level tax/spend.
Is it not better to give than to receive?
It can take only a few fringe lunatics to turn a movement.
The CPS will have been paying closer attention to the guy’s story than immigration would have done.
We need more robots not less.
The Tories are pretty hopeless right now, I'm fairly certain that a moderate Labour leader would have little trouble beating them, but instead we get some harebrained reheated 1970s style socialist claptrap that we ought to know by now will not work.
Sheesh!!
Should we have a pledge to ban cockfighting in the manifesto or is it moot since it is already banned?
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/914802628839727105
https://twitter.com/gdnpolitics/status/914800639754096640
Horrible.
The triple lock puts an unsustainable and ever increasing cost burden on the shoulders of the working age to pay for the elderly.
Sadly, I think we are in for 15 years of neither. Hard left knee jerk socialism with Corbyn followed by a resurgent Thatcherite/Osbornite faction taking over the Tories.
Mr. Sandpit, that could be averted if people paid the slightest bit of attention even to current events, let alone history.
Just look at Venezuela.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/john-mcdonnell/news/81119/john-mcdonnell-warns-tories-against
Thanks to youngsters voting in such numbers for it to continue, I expect that it will be around for a long time, placing as you say an increasing cost burden on the shoulders of the working age to pay for the elderly. We should give due credit to our young people for being so generous.
People want bold moves to fix a socio-political model they believe has failed. And if it has failed them then who's to say that perception is wrong.
We are in the land of broad brush strokes and extremes and I tend to agree with you that it will take 10-15 years for such a mood to wear off, as people exhaust the alternatives to find that they cannot provide the elixir they seek.
"Fewer not less".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/less-or-fewer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewer_vs._less
- Corbyn seems to be getting Labour united and organised
- The Tories seem to be indulging in civil war and all over the place
On that basis, which one looks like offering better governance?
United parties with a vision do super-well, sort of regardless of what that vision actually is or might entail.
FWIW, the change the Tories put forward in the manifesto would have been trivial in terms of effect, which is one reason why it was such awful politics. (The smart politics would be to keep the wording but change the definition of the triple lock, to, for example, using the median of the three values, rather than the highest).
Meanwhile, employment levels are at all-time records.
Shocked when I woke up this morning to see 20 people had been killed, death toll is now up to 50.
We do not need 5 minutes of a Momentum government let alone 5 years!
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/september2017#actual-hours-worked
As someone who ran shops for some years I can see the possibilities of employing staff for just a few hours per wekk, thereby enabling to open the place for longer hours.
Not sure how Emplyers National Insurnace works now, though.
So, basic rate tax + NI + Employer's NI adds up to about 40% and you can add pensions to that (increases from 2% to 5% in April and 8% in April 2019) and downwards pressure on wages is obvious.
Unfortunately, I do think that some of those on the right have a tendency to display the attitudes and views Monksfield outlined in his post. Monksfield is right when he says that several PB Tories - and those who weren't necessarily Conservatives but who were anti-Corbyn - had a huge issue with young people and characterised younger voters as lazy, social media obsessed idiots who would never vote. As per my previous post, I'd add in minorities too - we get some very ''interesting'' views on PB whenever a terrorist attack happens. We already saw some ''interesting'' views after Lammy's report was released.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/914810093874671617