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  • Morning all. Anything happening?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    rcs1000 said:

    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.

    It should not make any difference - it is the power rating that matters not the voltage. If you halve the voltage you double the current, but the power rating is what matters

    1kW kettle = 240V at 4(ish) Amp = 110V at 8(ish) Amps
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Everyone calm down. Uber will appeal, and they are allowed to continue operating during that process.

    This is Khan shooting for a favourable reception at the Labour Party conference.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    brendan16 said:

    A pretty much perfect example of how utterly fecking ludicrous these sorts of bans are.
    Not really - several EU member states already have bans. Several African nations introduced them following suicide bombings and even in some Islamic nations it is restricted or banned.

    It's not difficult - full face coverings in public spaces should be banned for security reasons. The hijab is perfectly sufficient to demonstrate modesty - as demonstrated by its use by most Muslim women. The burqa is not about religion - but separation and treating women as second class citizens.
    It is perfectly possible to dress modestly without a hijab.
    It is perfectly possible for me to walk in winter without a balaclava. But at times, for reasons of comfort or just practicality, I do wear one.

    I've no problem with such bans in certain circumstances - e.g. banning face coverings in banks. But a general ban seems to be about restricting people from doing something harmless with no reason other than some of us don't like it. And I feel that's wrong.
    I didn't say anything about banning the hijab. Just that it's perfectly possible to dress modestly without wearing one. Maybe the motivation for wearing one is simply "Look at me, look at how pious a Muslim I am!".
    The same way a young woman who wears very little on a wintry Friday night in Newcastle is saying: "look at me, look at how beautiful I am!". Some countries (wrongly, IMO) ban such clothing, when it does little harm (except perhaps to the immediate health of the wearer).

    Let people be, and wear, what they want, as long as they don't hurt people or cause problems.

    I must admit, I have trouble with the above when it comes to full nudity. At least, if it's not mine. ;)
    The issue is that the full burqa emphasises separation (and is a pan-Arabist nationalist statement in origin) and hinders integration.

    If you believe - as I do - that for immigration to work long-term there needs to be integration, there is a case for the ban.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    rcs1000 said:

    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.

    It should not make any difference - it is the power rating that matters not the voltage. If you halve the voltage you double the current, but the power rating is what matters

    1kW kettle = 240V at 4(ish) Amp = 110V at 8(ish) Amps
    Nevertheless, it does. Presumably because - and this may be my faulty science at work - because doubling the ampage requires thicker cables than American houses seem to have.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,431
    Dropped by to see TSE's morning thread which was billed as being "unmissable" ...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    FF43 said:

    Surely EU "... taxation without representation ..." is better known as the Norway Option?

    Just asking...

    Barnier seems to be pushing the Norway option. No doubt with ulterior motives - continued payments, freedom of movement and no competitive reduction of standards. However our supposed choice of the "Canada plus" model is problematic, not just on the "plus" aspect but on the timing and sequencing.

    So we (hopefully, and I believe will) agree a destination of comprehensive FTA with a strict two year transition deal. So we Brexit in 2019, start desultory talks on the FTA and immediately the question is what happens at the end of the two year transition. We won't be any nearer to having our FTA in place and there will be continued uncertainty about third party arrangements. Do we really want to crash out to WTO only to partially reconstruct things later. In any case the Canada model is pretty crap compared with the level of integration we had before. So I think pressure will build up for a Norway type deal, just to get some kind of stability. The problem with that is that the UK isn't Norway. We are not prepared to outsource our external relations to a third party. So my central prediction is that we end up with a massively compromised Brexit. Unless as William has consistently argued, we decide, why are we doing this? We are better off in the EU.

    Either way this is going to run and run, pace Mr Eagles' headline, The War Without End.

    It is all so shambolic.

    The more I hear about the Florence speech, the more I wonder about why Mrs May is doing it. It seems so bizarre. Why not do it in London? Or Brussels?

    The selection of politicians we have to choose from plus the behaviour of the current govt does make me think that UK plc is going to be FUBAR'd
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Charles said:

    brendan16 said:

    A pretty much perfect example of how utterly fecking ludicrous these sorts of bans are.
    Not really - several EU member states already have bans. Several African nations introduced them following suicide bombings and even in some Islamic nations it is restricted or banned.

    It's not difficult - full face coverings in public spaces should be banned for security reasons. The hijab is perfectly sufficient to demonstrate modesty - as demonstrated by its use by most Muslim women. The burqa is not about religion - but separation and treating women as second class citizens.
    It is perfectly possible to dress modestly without a hijab.
    It is perfectly possible for me to walk in winter without a balaclava. But at times, for reasons of comfort or just practicality, I do wear one.

    I've no problem with such bans in certain circumstances - e.g. banning face coverings in banks. But a general ban seems to be about restricting people from doing something harmless with no reason other than some of us don't like it. And I feel that's wrong.
    I didn't say anything about banning the hijab. Just that it's perfectly possible to dress modestly without wearing one. Maybe the motivation for wearing one is simply "Look at me, look at how pious a Muslim I am!".
    The same way a young woman who wears very little on a wintry Friday night in Newcastle is saying: "look at me, look at how beautiful I am!". Some countries (wrongly, IMO) ban such clothing, when it does little harm (except perhaps to the immediate health of the wearer).

    Let people be, and wear, what they want, as long as they don't hurt people or cause problems.

    I must admit, I have trouble with the above when it comes to full nudity. At least, if it's not mine. ;)
    The issue is that the full burqa emphasises separation (and is a pan-Arabist nationalist statement in origin) and hinders integration.

    If you believe - as I do - that for immigration to work long-term there needs to be integration, there is a case for the ban.
    The problem I have with that is "where do you draw the line?"

    Hasidic Jews? Nuns?

    In the latter case, the requirement that adherents avoid eating with gentiles, that women cannot touch men who are not their husband, that you need to shop (for food) in different restaurants. Those are policies that are specifically designed to discourage mingling (or integrating, if you prefer) with non Jews.
  • TOPPING said:




    In a striking departure from the customary protocol surrounding a visit by a head of government, May has no official host in Florence, where she will give a speech that the prime minister’s office has billed as a milestone in the Brexit process.

    The unusual arrangements around the speech only serve to highlight the oddness of the event itself — a head of government giving a major speech in a foreign country outside of any international forum and without the high-level involvement of the host country’s government.

    A senior official in the Florence city administration said although the British government had been in touch with the mayor’s office, they did not follow usual diplomatic norms and had not included city officials in setting up the logistics of the venue.

    Good for Theresa - makes it more news worthy and adds to the coverage.

    But also puts lots of pressure on her to strike the right tone and impress.

    As I have said before, let's wait and see
    Good for Theresa!?

    She's PM ffs how's she getting there, Ryanair?

    As someone noted earlier this morning it would be like Angela Merkel coming over here, on a private visit and giving a speech at the Manchester Trade Hall (apols can't remember who it was) without involving anyone else.
    Hmm. Yes all a bit strange. Kind of makes Theresa look like some eccentric old lady turning up wearing a 'Brexit will delivery us' sandwich board. Presumably some SPAD or other thought that talk of 'looking beyond the horizon' and 'sailing the seven seas' would be given greater poignancy if delivered in a Renaissance city. Nevertheless, if she plays it right, and by that I mean disavow the dangerous hard-Brexit pronouncements of her colleagues, then she should be able to kill Boris's career stone dead.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Dropped by to see TSE's morning thread which was billed as being "unmissable" ...

    All my threads are unmissable.
  • Charles said:

    brendan16 said:

    A pretty much perfect example of how utterly fecking ludicrous these sorts of bans are.
    Not really - several EU member states already have bans. Several African nations introduced them following suicide bombings and even in some Islamic nations it is restricted or banned.

    It's not difficult - full face coverings in public spaces should be banned for security reasons. The hijab is perfectly sufficient to demonstrate modesty - as demonstrated by its use by most Muslim women. The burqa is not about religion - but separation and treating women as second class citizens.
    It is perfectly possible to dress modestly without a hijab.
    It is perfectly possible for me to walk in winter without a balaclava. But at times, for reasons of comfort or just practicality, I do wear one.

    I've no problem with such bans in certain circumstances - e.g. banning face coverings in banks. But a general ban seems to be about restricting people from doing something harmless with no reason other than some of us don't like it. And I feel that's wrong.
    I didn't say anything about banning the hijab. Just that it's perfectly possible to dress modestly without wearing one. Maybe the motivation for wearing one is simply "Look at me, look at how pious a Muslim I am!".
    The same way a young woman who wears very little on a wintry Friday night in Newcastle is saying: "look at me, look at how beautiful I am!". Some countries (wrongly, IMO) ban such clothing, when it does little harm (except perhaps to the immediate health of the wearer).

    Let people be, and wear, what they want, as long as they don't hurt people or cause problems.

    I must admit, I have trouble with the above when it comes to full nudity. At least, if it's not mine. ;)
    The issue is that the full burqa emphasises separation (and is a pan-Arabist nationalist statement in origin) and hinders integration.

    If you believe - as I do - that for immigration to work long-term there needs to be integration, there is a case for the ban.
    Banning it actually decreases integration, and marginalises women who want to wear it. The message you are sending is clear: if you believe you need to wear a burkha, you cannot take part in society.

    So if you want to increase integration, don't ban it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    edited September 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It’s about the way the company is run and engages (or otherwise) with the regulators at TfL, rather than the services provided though. They have a long history of sticking a middle finger up at regulators everywhere.
    https://twitter.com/TfL/status/911168235189489669
  • Well TFL just put 40,000 people out of business. well done.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,431

    GIN1138 said:

    Dropped by to see TSE's morning thread which was billed as being "unmissable" ...

    All my threads are unmissable.
    Debatable? ;)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    The decision is a disgrace. I have taken hundreds of uber journeys and apart from my rating, unaccountably, being less than five stars, I can't think more highly of them. I have used them all - apart from the sharing one: lux, the disabled one, and the normal one.

    Extraordinary backwards step from TfL, etc.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,270
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.

    It should not make any difference - it is the power rating that matters not the voltage. If you halve the voltage you double the current, but the power rating is what matters

    1kW kettle = 240V at 4(ish) Amp = 110V at 8(ish) Amps
    Nevertheless, it does. Presumably because - and this may be my faulty science at work - because doubling the ampage requires thicker cables than American houses seem to have.
    I think a lower current means higher losses due to resistance, which might have something to do with it. That's why electricity is transported at 10s of 10,000s of volts.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It’s about the way the company is run and engages (or otherwise) with the regulators at TfL, rather than the services provided though. They have a long history of sticking a middle finger up at regulators everywhere.
    https://twitter.com/TfL/status/911168235189489669
    Yep, and a massive fucking fine would be in order.

    Refusing to allow Uber to operate smacks of appeasement of the black cab lobby.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,067

    Sean_F said:

    brendan16 said:

    A pretty much perfect example of how utterly fecking ludicrous these sorts of bans are.
    Not really - several EU member states already have bans. Several African nations introduced them following suicide bombings and even in some Islamic nations it is restricted or banned.

    It's not difficult - full face coverings in public spaces should be banned for security reasons. The hijab is perfectly sufficient to demonstrate modesty - as demonstrated by its use by most Muslim women. The burqa is not about religion - but separation and treating women as second class citizens.
    It is perfectly possible to dress modestly without a hijab.
    It is perfectly possible for me to walk in winter without a balaclava. But at times, for reasons of comfort or just practicality, I do wear one.

    I've no problem with such bans in certain circumstances - e.g. banning face coverings in banks. But a general ban seems to be about restricting people from doing something harmless with no reason other than some of us don't like it. And I feel that's wrong.
    I didn't say anything about banning the hijab. Just that it's perfectly possible to dress modestly without wearing one. Maybe the motivation for wearing one is simply "Look at me, look at how pious a Muslim I am!".
    The same way a young woman who wears very little on a wintry Friday night in Newcastle is saying: "look at me, look at how beautiful I am!". Some countries (wrongly, IMO) ban such clothing, when it does little harm (except perhaps to the immediate health of the wearer).

    Let people be, and wear, what they want, as long as they don't hurt people or cause problems.

    I must admit, I have trouble with the above when it comes to full nudity. At least, if it's not mine. ;)
    I tend to agree. Not surprisingly, one sees lots of women in burkas in Luton. I think it's a stupid garment, but they aren't harming me.
    Personally, I draw the line at covering your face, in public, as a matter of course.

    I don't buy the "whatabouttery" arguments about Balaclavas.
    Do you object to Mickey Mouse at Disneyland and those Mascots at sports events then?
  • rcs1000 said:

    The problem I have with that is "where do you draw the line?"

    Hasidic Jews? Nuns?

    In the latter case, the requirement that adherents avoid eating with gentiles, that women cannot touch men who are not their husband, that you need to shop (for food) in different restaurants. Those are policies that are specifically designed to discourage mingling (or integrating, if you prefer) with non Jews.

    Precisely. If people want to wear funny clothes, that's up to them. Britain used to pride itself on being a free country. It's not up to the state to set dress codes.

    On the other hand, we've made a big mistake in not retaining the other side of the freedom, which should go with it. By that I mean that individuals and private businesses (but not public bodies) should be entirely free to specify that they don't want to employ or serve people wearing funny clothes, be they burquas or union-jack trousers.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,780

    Charles said:



    The issue is that the full burqa emphasises separation (and is a pan-Arabist nationalist statement in origin) and hinders integration.

    If you believe - as I do - that for immigration to work long-term there needs to be integration, there is a case for the ban.

    Banning it actually decreases integration, and marginalises women who want to wear it. The message you are sending is clear: if you believe you need to wear a burkha, you cannot take part in society.

    So if you want to increase integration, don't ban it.
    The problem with the full burqa is that you it allows women to move outside but still stops them from interacting with people in the street / shops - allowing it means that they never need to integrate with society as they hide behind a veil at all times.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It's done nowt for me mate. I get a taxi if and when there is no haybaling or silaging to be done. Bloody latte-sipping Metropolitan concerns.
    :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    edited September 2017
    Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    rcs1000 said:

    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.

    It should not make any difference - it is the power rating that matters not the voltage. If you halve the voltage you double the current, but the power rating is what matters

    1kW kettle = 240V at 4(ish) Amp = 110V at 8(ish) Amps
    Yes, so an American 110V 15A plug can only deliver 1,650W, whereas a British 240V 13A plug can deliver 3,120W, nearly twice as much.

    A typical British kettle is 3KW, so will theoretically boil the same amount of water in half the time of an American 1.5KW model.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,780

    Well TFL just put 40,000 people out of business. well done.

    Not quite, they just need to join a different minicab firm / addison lee or wait for another app company such as Lyft to arrive in London who may actual follow some laws....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    The decision is a disgrace. I have taken hundreds of uber journeys and apart from my rating, unaccountably, being less than five stars, I can't think more highly of them. I have used them all - apart from the sharing one: lux, the disabled one, and the normal one.

    Extraordinary backwards step from TfL, etc.
    I used UberPool once in San Francisco by accident. It was about 11pm and I was coming back from dinner at a friend's house near Candlestick Park to a hotel in the centre of the city. (For those not in the know, Candlestick Park is not a salubrious part of SF.)

    So, I got in the UberPool, and it went on and picked up first one construction worker, then another. Now, I was a little tipsy, and engaged the construction workers in conversation. They said UberPool ($5 from anywhere to anywhere in SF) had changed their lives. Previously, to get to their night job, they'd need to walk to a bus stop, wait 10 to 15 minutes in the cold, then change from a bus to the metro. On the way home, the metro wouldn't have started yet, and they'd have to take three buses, often taking them more than an hour.

    Now, for less money than the bus and metro fares, they could cut their commute down from 60 minutes to 20 minutes. It literally changed their lives. I presume that there are people in London for whom it has had a similar effect.



  • It is all so shambolic.

    The more I hear about the Florence speech, the more I wonder about why Mrs May is doing it. It seems so bizarre. Why not do it in London? Or Brussels?

    The selection of politicians we have to choose from plus the behaviour of the current govt does make me think that UK plc is going to be FUBAR'd

    MY family love Italy and we have visited most parts at one time or another. However, last year we stayed in Tuscany and of course went to Florence, Pisa and Cortona and there does seem to be a very pro British stance among the Italians there.

    At the time the beaches around Genoa took away all their European flags and replaceable them with the Union Jack in solidarity with the UK

    The Hotel Receptionist in Rome turned round to me and said

    'You know, I wish we had the balls to leave the EU' (Exact words)

    So maybe Florence is a good place to deliver her speech with the coverage it will receive in Italy and beyond
  • rcs1000 said:

    The problem I have with that is "where do you draw the line?"

    Hasidic Jews? Nuns?

    In the latter case, the requirement that adherents avoid eating with gentiles, that women cannot touch men who are not their husband, that you need to shop (for food) in different restaurants. Those are policies that are specifically designed to discourage mingling (or integrating, if you prefer) with non Jews.

    Precisely. If people want to wear funny clothes, that's up to them. Britain used to pride itself on being a free country. It's not up to the state to set dress codes.

    On the other hand, we've made a big mistake in not retaining the other side of the freedom, which should go with it. By that I mean that individuals and private businesses (but not public bodies) should be entirely free to specify that they don't want to employ or serve people wearing funny clothes, be they burquas or union-jack trousers.
    Bit of a slipper slope that. What about businesses refusing to serve/employ people because they don't, for example, have 'entirely British' DNA?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It’s about the way the company is run and engages (or otherwise) with the regulators at TfL, rather than the services provided though. They have a long history of sticking a middle finger up at regulators everywhere.
    https://twitter.com/TfL/status/911168235189489669
    Yep, and a massive fucking fine would be in order.

    Refusing to allow Uber to operate smacks of appeasement of the black cab lobby.
    Exactly. And the going rate for Uber is quite high:
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/09/waymo-wants-uber-to-pay-2-6-billion-in-damages-just-for-starters/

    I daresay TfL can start saying 'billions' instead of 'millions'. ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Final thought for the morning. May's proposal will leave the UK in a " Taxation but no representation " state for 2 years. We'll pay almost full dues for transition but lose our MEP's , Commissioner and Council of Ministers representation on Brexit Day. For a bunch of Sovereignty fetishists who ran with " Take back Control " as a slogan that's a fairly astonishing short term achievement.

    Not if we don't adopt any of the new rules.
    Excellent so we'll see Commerzbank charging their customers for research via the trading desk?
    I've no idea. I didn't want to move to Frankfurt...
    "If we don't adopt any of the new rules" is, in financial services for example, a nonsensical statement. Perhaps it is likewise in others - if we don't like the new widget specs we need to comply with to sell our widgets in the EU we won't adopt them - I have no idea.

    But for all practical purposes @YellowSubmarine is right, it is taxation without representation.

    And after the transition period it is also taxation (in the form of necessary compliance with the rules) without representation.
    No - @YellowSubmarine statement was meaningless.

    If we want to sell on a commercial basis we will need to comply with standards, just like we do with the US.

    But that's not "taxation without representation" - the key point is that a company that doesn't export in the EU won't have to adopt the standards if they don't want to, unlike now. For example, I could see a niche whereby someone produces washing machines that wash and dishwashers that clean.
    Like Ebac, you mean (first googles British washing machine company).

    "By 1985, Ebac had become the best selling dehumidifier in the UK and was exporting to most countries throughout Europe."
    I was just whining about new new EU rules on powering electrical devices which mean that modern kitchen utilities are useless.
    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.
    Get yourself a Zip tap - we had one in the new house we bought and I am a complete convert.

    https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/hydrotap-range
  • eek said:

    Charles said:



    The issue is that the full burqa emphasises separation (and is a pan-Arabist nationalist statement in origin) and hinders integration.

    If you believe - as I do - that for immigration to work long-term there needs to be integration, there is a case for the ban.

    Banning it actually decreases integration, and marginalises women who want to wear it. The message you are sending is clear: if you believe you need to wear a burkha, you cannot take part in society.

    So if you want to increase integration, don't ban it.
    The problem with the full burqa is that you it allows women to move outside but still stops them from interacting with people in the street / shops - allowing it means that they never need to integrate with society as they hide behind a veil at all times.
    But they can still talk and interact. Banning the burkha will remove their ability from taking *any* part in society. And IMO that's an even bigger danger, especially for their children.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017

    Bit of a slipper slope that. What about businesses refusing to serve/employ people because they don't, for example, have 'entirely British' DNA?

    Well, it's not the same, because choice of clothes is a decision you can make or not. It would be up to the individual to take into account when they decide to wear funny clothes that they might not be able to get a coffee from a particular shop, in exactly the same way that you might not be able to have a glass of champagne at the Ritz if you decide to turn up in boxer shorts and an offensive teeshirt.
  • Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Final thought for the morning. May's proposal will leave the UK in a " Taxation but no representation " state for 2 years. We'll pay almost full dues for transition but lose our MEP's , Commissioner and Council of Ministers representation on Brexit Day. For a bunch of Sovereignty fetishists who ran with " Take back Control " as a slogan that's a fairly astonishing short term achievement.

    Not if we don't adopt any of the new rules.
    Excellent so we'll see Commerzbank charging their customers for research via the trading desk?
    I've no idea. I didn't want to move to Frankfurt...
    "If we don't adopt any of the new rules" is, in financial services for example, a nonsensical statement. Perhaps it is likewise in others - if we don't like the new widget specs we need to comply with to sell our widgets in the EU we won't adopt them - I have no idea.

    But for all practical purposes @YellowSubmarine is right, it is taxation without representation.

    And after the transition period it is also taxation (in the form of necessary compliance with the rules) without representation.
    No - @YellowSubmarine statement was meaningless.

    If we want to sell on a commercial basis we will need to comply with standards, just like we do with the US.

    But that's not "taxation without representation" - the key point is that a company that doesn't export in the EU won't have to adopt the standards if they don't want to, unlike now. For example, I could see a niche whereby someone produces washing machines that wash and dishwashers that clean.
    Like Ebac, you mean (first googles British washing machine company).

    "By 1985, Ebac had become the best selling dehumidifier in the UK and was exporting to most countries throughout Europe."
    I was just whining about new new EU rules on powering electrical devices which mean that modern kitchen utilities are useless.
    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.
    Get yourself a Zip tap - we had one in the new house we bought and I am a complete convert.

    https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/hydrotap-range
    We had a hot water tap in London, and - yes - it was awesome.

    We're renting in LA, so don't have the freedom to modify the kitchen. (Yet.)
  • rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Dropped by to see TSE's morning thread which was billed as being "unmissable" ...

    All my threads are unmissable.
    Debatable? ;)
    I’ve given you brilliant political insight and a history lesson. What more do you want?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    edited September 2017
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Final thought for the morning. May's proposal will leave the UK in a " Taxation but no representation " state for 2 years. We'll pay almost full dues for transition but lose our MEP's , Commissioner and Council of Ministers representation on Brexit Day. For a bunch of Sovereignty fetishists who ran with " Take back Control " as a slogan that's a fairly astonishing short term achievement.

    Not if we don't adopt any of the new rules.
    Excellent so we'll see Commerzbank charging their customers for research via the trading desk?
    I've no idea. I didn't want to move to Frankfurt...
    "If we don't adopt any of the new rules" is, in financial services for example, a nonsensical statement. Perhaps it is likewise in others - if we don't like the new widget specs we need to comply with to sell our widgets in the EU we won't adopt them - I have no idea.

    But for all practical purposes @YellowSubmarine is right, it is taxation without representation.

    And after the transition period it is also taxation (in the form of necessary compliance with the rules) without representation.
    No - @YellowSubmarine statement was meaningless.

    If we want to sell on a commercial basis we will need to comply with standards, just like we do with the US.

    But that's not "taxation without representation" - the key point is that a company that doesn't export in the EU won't have to adopt the standards if they don't want to, unlike now. For example, I could see a niche whereby someone produces washing machines that wash and dishwashers that clean.
    Like Ebac, you mean (first googles British washing machine company).

    "By 1985, Ebac had become the best selling dehumidifier in the UK and was exporting to most countries throughout Europe."
    I was just whining about new new EU rules on powering electrical devices which mean that modern kitchen utilities are useless.
    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.
    Get yourself a Zip tap - we had one in the new house we bought and I am a complete convert.

    https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/hydrotap-range
    Tea does not taste the same, with one of those instant hot water taps.

    It just doesn't.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    I refuse to use black cabs. Why should I pay more for a ride in a less comfortable, dirtier vehicle, driven by somebody who will never think to ask to change the temperature or the music?

    I hope all the millennials who voted for the candidate backed by the LTDA are happy.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    I think the issue is that the battery would be supplying DC, while the mains would be supplying AC. So, I think you'd need to have both a DC heating element and an AC one. Still, can't add that much to the price. And I reckon that there's at least a million Americans that'd like an electric kettle that worked much, much quicker.
  • https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/911173815853617153

    Reminds of the joke about anti-capitalists videoing themselves protesting on the latest iPhone!
  • Talking of disruptive technologies, I was amused by this article in CityAM;

    http://www.cityam.com/272451/jamie-dimon-faces-market-abuse-report-after-his-comments

    Blockswater, an algorithmic liquidity provider, has filed a market abuse report against Jamie Dimon for "spreading false and misleading information" about bitcoin.

    The firm filed the report with the Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority against JP Morgan Chase and Dimon, the company's chief executive.


    I can't help feeling that they might not have quite thought this one through; they seem to be arguing that the bitcoin market should be subject to the full panoply of EU financial regulation.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    And you actually get to benefit from the additional energy when the lithium battery overheats :wink:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    And you actually get to benefit from the additional energy when the lithium battery overheats :wink:
    :smile:
  • RoyalBlue said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    I refuse to use black cabs. Why should I pay more for a ride in a less comfortable, dirtier vehicle, driven by somebody who will never think to ask to change the temperature or the music?

    I hope all the millennials who voted for the candidate backed by the LTDA are happy.

    I know nothing about Uber but to throw 40,000 out of work and by the looks of it upset millions of Londoners seems a crass move, probably inspired by the left, and the black cab lobby

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:



    Get yourself a Zip tap - we had one in the new house we bought and I am a complete convert.

    https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/hydrotap-range

    Tea does not taste the same, with one of those instant hot water taps.

    It just doesn't.
    Sure, but so much of tea is the ritual and the brewing.

    I just use it for instant coffee on the way to work. At weekends I have filter coffee which is far better.
  • Mr. NorthWales, no cheap taxis and no blondes in bikinis on Tube adverts. Khan is clearly an oaf.
  • I get pissed off by Über.

    They consistently cancel a pick up and offer it a few minutes later for a much higher price.
  • Mr. NorthWales, no cheap taxis and no blondes in bikinis on Tube adverts. Khan is clearly an oaf.

    Seems so - I cannot see any good coming out of this for Khan or Labour in London
  • Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    He'd been accused and they found no evidence of it whatsoever.
  • The rhetoric inches up, notch by notch:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/911175246853664768
  • London open for business, huh?
  • Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    Also speaking as a Tranmere Rovers fan we're not exactly setting the world alight at the moment. You hear the phrase "All Blacks" in the context of Rugby and anyone who knows anything about Rugby knows that means New Zealand.

    How many people would look at that banner and instantly recognise it as Tranmere Rovers nickname without having that explained to them?
  • Overwhelmingly globalising Brexiteers moaning about a Brexiter decision on Uber ? Disruptive technology combined with lower ' skilled ' largely immigrant drivers driving down wages and working conditions for an established workforce. Behold your monster Dr Frankenstein. Black Cabbies were of course the salt of the earth when they were blaming the EU for their ills not disruptive customer service driven tech.

    I get used to this sort of decision if I were you.
  • Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    He'd been accused and they found no evidence of it whatsoever.
    Well they’ve reopened the investigation because they didn’t interview a key witness.
  • Re Leaving voting and Formal educational attainment: Thanks for the comments below. I'll look again at the stats and respond later.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nowhere near as useless as the US, where 110v means that electric kettles and toasters take forever.

    It should not make any difference - it is the power rating that matters not the voltage. If you halve the voltage you double the current, but the power rating is what matters

    1kW kettle = 240V at 4(ish) Amp = 110V at 8(ish) Amps
    Yes, so an American 110V 15A plug can only deliver 1,650W, whereas a British 240V 13A plug can deliver 3,120W, nearly twice as much.

    A typical British kettle is 3KW, so will theoretically boil the same amount of water in half the time of an American 1.5KW model.
    I was not aware that US kettles are manufactured at half the power rating. That would explain it.
  • Mr. Submarine, Khan is pro-EU, and London generally is a pro-EU city. I fail to see how this decision has anything to do with the EU.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,399

    FF43 said:

    Surely EU "... taxation without representation ..." is better known as the Norway Option?

    Just asking...

    Barnier seems to be pushing the Norway option. No doubt with ulterior motives - continued payments, freedom of movement and no competitive reduction of standards. However our supposed choice of the "Canada plus" model is problematic, not just on the "plus" aspect but on the timing and sequencing.

    So we (hopefully, and I believe will) agree a destination of comprehensive FTA with a strict two year transition deal. So we Brexit in 2019, start desultory talks on the FTA and immediately the question is what happens at the end of the two year transition. We won't be any nearer to having our FTA in place and there will be continued uncertainty about third party arrangements. Do we really want to crash out to WTO only to partially reconstruct things later. In any case the Canada model is pretty crap compared with the level of integration we had before. So I think pressure will build up for a Norway type deal, just to get some kind of stability. The problem with that is that the UK isn't Norway. We are not prepared to outsource our external relations to a third party. So my central prediction is that we end up with a massively compromised Brexit. Unless as William has consistently argued, we decide, why are we doing this? We are better off in the EU.

    Either way this is going to run and run, pace Mr Eagles' headline, The War Without End.

    It is all so shambolic.

    The more I hear about the Florence speech, the more I wonder about why Mrs May is doing it. It seems so bizarre. Why not do it in London? Or Brussels?
    she
    The selection of politicians we have to choose from plus the behaviour of the current govt does make me think that UK plc is going to be FUBAR'd
    AFAICT, it's the speech Mrs May should have made the week after becoming PM, that it is her job to implement the choice made by the British people in the referendum, which was a choice that she recognises disappoints many in the EU and in the UK itself, but in doing so, Britain would remain the EU's best friend, who shares with its EU partners common values, history and culture, and it would support the EU where it could.

    First problem is that it is too late. People have moved on and positions have become fixed. Second problem is her previous speeches at last year's Conservative Party conference and Lancaster House. If she echoes those speeches she will fail to reach out, but if she goes back on what she says, people will distrust her. So she will probably go for a it's different but the same approach, meanwhile the clock is ticking and people need answers to specific questions.
  • I get pissed off by Über.

    They consistently cancel a pick up and offer it a few minutes later for a much higher price.

    As a matter of interest, do you accept the price increase, and if you decline it does it continue to happen?

    I've never used Uber or Lyft In fact, I've not used a taxi of any kind in many years. I feel like I'm living on another planet ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518

    Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    Also speaking as a Tranmere Rovers fan we're not exactly setting the world alight at the moment. You hear the phrase "All Blacks" in the context of Rugby and anyone who knows anything about Rugby knows that means New Zealand.

    How many people would look at that banner and instantly recognise it as Tranmere Rovers nickname without having that explained to them?
    Indeed. And "Super White Army" could be construed as a Trade Descriptions breach.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:



    Get yourself a Zip tap - we had one in the new house we bought and I am a complete convert.

    https://www.zipwater.co.uk/products/hydrotap-range

    Tea does not taste the same, with one of those instant hot water taps.

    It just doesn't.
    Sure, but so much of tea is the ritual and the brewing.

    I just use it for instant coffee on the way to work. At weekends I have filter coffee which is far better.
    Yes that makes sense - and there is a ritual for that also which I love (grinding the beans, warming the cafetiere, putting some lukewarm water in first, etc..)
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I fear we're about to hear May's "cunning plan" for Brexit.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111

    I get pissed off by Über.

    They consistently cancel a pick up and offer it a few minutes later for a much higher price.

    It is true they have deteriorated of late. But it was (almost) too good to be true for the first months and years.
  • Mr. Eagles, an accusation isn't guilt, nor proof thereof.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406



    I have frequently said on here that nationalisation and privatisation are just tools, and should be treated as such. They should not be treated as ideologies. Use what works.

    There is no 'example' on the East Coast. People who obsess about it fail to mention that SWT were returning far more money at the time than EC, and also the unusual circumstances at the time.

    The railways are a really odd one, as they are privatised, but in some ways the government wields more control than it did when nationalised (at least, at some periods). However Network Rail's many recent failures on large projects, and the disastrous DfT-mandated IEP project, shows that governmental control might be far from a panacea.

    As I've said passim, in the early 1990s I knew a few BR managers - this was in the period just before privatisation. One said to me that the entire mindset of BR was doing more with less - and they'd done a blooming good job of it since the early 1980s. But that involved managing a shrinking network. I am far from convinced a nationalised BR would have turned around that mindset and supported the massive growth we have seen since privatisation.

    Huh?
    Of course it is an example - a private company failed to meet its obligations on the East Coast line and pulled out. A public company stepped in.

    Whilst all train operating companies are subsidised when the cost of infrastructure is added in - the net subsidy for East Coast was lowest at 1% vs. an average of 32% for other companies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/18/east-coast-rail-line-taxpayer-subsidy/

    Managing the infrastructure is a different job to TOC - chalk and cheese.

    The massive growth in numbers we have seen since privatisation is because of a whole bunch of factors... urbanisation, cost of property, GDP growth etc.

    It's not because the service is now so wonderful.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,338
    edited September 2017

    Mr. Eagles, an accusation isn't guilt, nor proof thereof.

    I know. It is about perceptions, you need to win in the court of public opinion too.

    Caesar’s wife etc
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    I think the issue is that the battery would be supplying DC, while the mains would be supplying AC. So, I think you'd need to have both a DC heating element and an AC one. Still, can't add that much to the price. And I reckon that there's at least a million Americans that'd like an electric kettle that worked much, much quicker.
    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    I think the issue is that the battery would be supplying DC, while the mains would be supplying AC. So, I think you'd need to have both a DC heating element and an AC one. Still, can't add that much to the price. And I reckon that there's at least a million Americans that'd like an electric kettle that worked much, much quicker.
    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.
    That wouldn't work, because if the battery was exhausted you wouldn't be able to heat water as the AC to DC converter would not - in all likelihood - provide enough power.
  • Sandpit said:

    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.

    It would have to be a hell of a battery to deliver 3KW, even for a short time. How big is this kettle going to be???
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited September 2017
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Brilliant that PB.com is talking about Ohm's law.

    Who on Earth has the patience to wait for a 1kW kettle? Maxing out the power your kettle is almost an article of faith for a true Brit.

    I am looking forward to when Tesla come out with a serious kettle.

    That's actually a brilliant idea. A kettle with a battery in the base, so it can deliver more current than is just supplied by the mains when you turn it on.

    I might actually look to get that designed and made.
    That is actually a genius idea.
    I think the issue is that the battery would be supplying DC, while the mains would be supplying AC. So, I think you'd need to have both a DC heating element and an AC one. Still, can't add that much to the price. And I reckon that there's at least a million Americans that'd like an electric kettle that worked much, much quicker.
    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.
    And what's the point? Since you'd need mains anyway to charge the battery, and assuming you're not planning on boiling the kettle while you're commuting/dog-walking/jogging/shopping/etc., why not just cut out the middle man and plug the kettle into the mains? Oh, there's an idea :lol:
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It has slashed the cost of transport for millions, by losing billions of dollars.

    Uber is an extraordinarily successful attempt to hoodwink silicon valley investors into giving away vast amounts of money to taxi drivers and a great service for far too little to consumers.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Re: Uber in London

    Looking at the TfL statement, perhaps if Uber undertakes to make improvements to medical certification and notification of crimes etc (see the 4 bullet points) then it can have have a temporary reprieve whilst it implements the improvements.

    If they are not meeting with regulatory requirements then they deserve to lose their licence
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    edited September 2017

    Mr. Submarine, Khan is pro-EU, and London generally is a pro-EU city. I fail to see how this decision has anything to do with the EU.

    Because while it's too early to tell whether we're getting Soft, Hard or WTO Corbynism we are getting Corbynism. Protectionist, populist, anti capitalist economic populism has escaped the lab. Well actually it was weaponised by Leave and released deliberately as a WMD.

    This decision is 8 or 9 on the Brexit scale. It's using state power to restrict the labour supply to buttress the pay and conditions of the ' natives '. And nearly all the folk on here now moaning about where validating that populist ( and economically illiterate ) model during leave.

    I suspect Khan knows *exactly* what he's doing and who he is appealing too with this. And he doesn't need to go through with a shut down. He can simply reissue in a month or two after getting concessions.
  • Mr. Eagles, the court of public opinion seems to think covering up the banner is ridiculous.

    Just on AC/DC, it's ironic someone mentioned Tesla, because it was Tesla who came up with the means to easily change current from one form to the other, which had a dramatic provision on electricity provision.

    I don't read many modern books, but Marc Seifer's biography of Tesla was really interesting.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    rkrkrk said:



    I have frequently said on here that nationalisation and privatisation are just tools, and should be treated as such. They should not be treated as ideologies. Use what works.

    There is no 'example' on the East Coast. People who obsess about it fail to mention that SWT were returning far more money at the time than EC, and also the unusual circumstances at the time.

    The railways are a really odd one, as they are privatised, but in some ways the government wields more control than it did when nationalised (at least, at some periods). However Network Rail's many recent failures on large projects, and the disastrous DfT-mandated IEP project, shows that governmental control might be far from a panacea.

    As I've said passim, in the early 1990s I knew a few BR managers - this was in the period just before privatisation. One said to me that the entire mindset of BR was doing more with less - and they'd done a blooming good job of it since the early 1980s. But that involved managing a shrinking network. I am far from convinced a nationalised BR would have turned around that mindset and supported the massive growth we have seen since privatisation.

    Huh?
    Of course it is an example - a private company failed to meet its obligations on the East Coast line and pulled out. A public company stepped in.

    Whilst all train operating companies are subsidised when the cost of infrastructure is added in - the net subsidy for East Coast was lowest at 1% vs. an average of 32% for other companies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/18/east-coast-rail-line-taxpayer-subsidy/

    Managing the infrastructure is a different job to TOC - chalk and cheese.

    The massive growth in numbers we have seen since privatisation is because of a whole bunch of factors... urbanisation, cost of property, GDP growth etc.

    It's not because the service is now so wonderful.
    +1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,635
    I hope the wine bars of London have ordered extra champagne for all the black cabbies descending on them tonight?
  • @anotherrichard " Ever closer union " is in the original Treaty of Rome which voters overwhelmingly backed in 1975. Cameron got a complete opt out from it in his renegotiation and voters rejected the package anyway. On the available limited evidence it's difficult to conclude voters are that bothered.
  • I've got a better idea, at least for the West coast market. A combined jogging machine and kettle which heats the water with the energy from your exertions. That way you get to save time, and the faster you pound, the hotter your coffee.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    Sandpit said:

    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.

    It would have to be a hell of a battery to deliver 3KW, even for a short time. How big is this kettle going to be???
    My idea is that the battery would supply a "boost" to the traditional AC heating element. The numbers don't seem ridiculous.

    Raising 250ml of water from 20 degrees to 60 degrees (which is effectively doubling the speed of the kettle assuming that both elements heat at the same rate), requires:

    (checks Google...)

    0.015Kw/h of electricity.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    calum said:

    I fear we're about to hear May's "cunning plan" for Brexit.

    It makes me think she learnt nothing from the GE campaign, and is possibly still secretly taking advice from whoever was responsible for that fiasco. I have not a lot of time for lay diagnoses of autism, but she seems to be autistic (in fact, to be too autistic to realise how autistic she is). She could have said whatever she wants to say outside Downing Street, or to the European Parliament. What has Florence done to deserve this? The bonkers venue just gives her penalties before she starts.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Re: Uber in London

    Looking at the TfL statement, perhaps if Uber undertakes to make improvements to medical certification and notification of crimes etc (see the 4 bullet points) then it can have have a temporary reprieve whilst it implements the improvements.

    If they are not meeting with regulatory requirements then they deserve to lose their licence

    King Khanute trying to hold back the internet ?

    What a clown - sterling tanking on the decision.

    Treasury already leaking threat it’s a disaster.

    A wee taste of Corbyns Britain ..
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    edited September 2017

    Re: Uber in London

    Looking at the TfL statement, perhaps if Uber undertakes to make improvements to medical certification and notification of crimes etc (see the 4 bullet points) then it can have have a temporary reprieve whilst it implements the improvements.

    If they are not meeting with regulatory requirements then they deserve to lose their licence

    Indeed. Would there be such outrage if, for example, a Private School offered a superior, cheaper education, whilst not complying with the Disclosure Barring System? The regulations are there for a good reason. They are also well-known, and Uber could abide by them.

    Once again, if you don't like the rules, campaign to change them.
  • rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It has slashed the cost of transport for millions, by losing billions of dollars.

    Uber is an extraordinarily successful attempt to hoodwink silicon valley investors into giving away vast amounts of money to taxi drivers and a great service for far too little to consumers.
    Or, lose money until you have swiped away any competition and then raise prices.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,635
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Oh dear.

    Outlier?

    "The new poll of more than 1,400 UK adults showed 52 per cent of the public back remaining in the EU, while 48 per cent would support leaving."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-majority-uk-british-people-stay-in-eu-not-leave-latest-poll-theresa-may-florence-speech-tory-a7960226.html

    BMG also had Remain ahead in its final EU referendum poll and Leave won by 4%
    Yes BMGs final poll before the referendum had remain on 53.3 and leave on 46.7 per cent - a 6.6 per cent lead for remain. If they are as equally wrong now as they were then the true picture is leave 54 remain 46 now!

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmgherald-final-eu-referendum-poll/

    Are we really going to start using polls with marginal results to seek to overturn the referendum when the majority of pollsters got it wrong in June 2017 and June 2016.

    As for the young vs old debate there was a recent poll which showed young people would rather have equality than freedom - by about 60 to 40 - whereas older voters would rather have freedom by a huge margin.

    I am afraid that truly shocked me - almost saying you would rather live in a dictatorship where everyone was 'equal' irrespective of their work or efforts than have freedom? Quite scary actually. Is that why so many love the EU - although it delivers neither real freedom but has created huge inequality.
    It didn't it had young people still preferring freedom to equality but by a smaller margin
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.

    It would have to be a hell of a battery to deliver 3KW, even for a short time. How big is this kettle going to be???
    My idea is that the battery would supply a "boost" to the traditional AC heating element. The numbers don't seem ridiculous.

    Raising 250ml of water from 20 degrees to 60 degrees (which is effectively doubling the speed of the kettle assuming that both elements heat at the same rate), requires:

    (checks Google...)

    0.015Kw/h of electricity.

    Yep, if you can wait an hour, you don't need much current (although you'd need good insulation to stop a large chunk of the energy being lost over the time). But to boil a kettle fast, you need that hefty 3KW rating, and batteries to deliver that sort of peak power are tricky.
  • NEW THREAD

  • I've got a better idea, at least for the West coast market. A combined jogging machine and kettle which heats the water with the energy from your exertions. That way you get to save time, and the faster you pound, the hotter your coffee.

    Gym machines that generate electricity are pretty ubiquitous now I thought.
  • Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    He'd been accused and they found no evidence of it whatsoever.
    Well they’ve reopened the investigation because they didn’t interview a key witness.
    Well they reviewed the videos with audio of when the alleged abuse took place and found it hadn't happened so I'm not sure what another witness could possibly reveal to change this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,635
    A larger % of non-white voters also voted for Brexit than voted for Donald Trump
  • The obvious point when comparing current ' referendum ' polls with pre referendum polls is whether the poling company has reweighed since then in line with referendum turnout and demographics. Many have. If they have we may not be comparing apples with oranges. Not that reweighing means they'd be correct in any hypothetical referendum. Look what standard turnout weighting did to #GE17 polls.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    dixiedean said:

    Re: Uber in London

    Looking at the TfL statement, perhaps if Uber undertakes to make improvements to medical certification and notification of crimes etc (see the 4 bullet points) then it can have have a temporary reprieve whilst it implements the improvements.

    If they are not meeting with regulatory requirements then they deserve to lose their licence

    Indeed. Would there be such outrage if, for example, a Private School offered a superior, cheaper education, whilst not complying with the Disclosure Barring System? The regulations are there for a good reason. They are also well-known, and Uber could abide by them.

    Once again, if you don't like the rules, campaign to change them.
    That's the issue I have with Uber: the service is great, but they seem to think that gives them the right to ignore regulations. Just not the case.
  • Mr. Eagles, an accusation isn't guilt, nor proof thereof.

    It all depends on who is accused and who is doing the accusing these days.
  • Zuckerberg on new controls at Facebook on political activities, more transparency on political ads.

    And this:

    "We are actively working with the US government on its ongoing investigations into Russian interference. We have been investigating this for many months, and for a while we had found no evidence of fake accounts linked to Russia running ads. When we recently uncovered this activity, we provided that information to the special counsel."

    https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10104052907253171
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,520

    Sandpit said:

    You'd only need the DC element, use the mains to charge the battery and the battery to heat the water.
    The issues would be waiting for the battery to charge and a replacement cycle for the batteries under heavy use would be more frequent than most devices, maybe every two years if they got hammered with fast charge/discharge cycles.

    It would have to be a hell of a battery to deliver 3KW, even for a short time. How big is this kettle going to be???
    You'd need a decent voltage in the battery, that's for sure. A standard 18v Li-ion drone battery would need 167A for 3KW!! Maybe also use the battery itself to heat the water!
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    170 years ago, the Tories demise was helped by the fact that the Whigs had excellent leadership. Corbyn is no Lord Palmerston, and I say this as a lifelong Labour supporter, he will crash and burn, taking Labour with him. We are about to be treated to a public show of hubris which will make Neil Kinnock's 1992 Sheffield rally look tame, and swing voters will not like it.
  • dixiedean said:

    Mr. Nabavi, indeed.

    The gay cake case was ridiculous.

    Edited extra bit: occurs to me some explanation might be useful. Refusing to serve people based on their sexual orientation is unacceptable discrimination. Refusing to put political, social or religious messages on your cakes because it conflicts with your personal beliefs is another matter (and would apply equally whether those asking for said cake were straight or gay).

    On a related note, this did make me wonder about the All Blacks:
    https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/910811336329834496

    Context. The England manager at the time had been accused of being a massive racially insensitive tool.

    You can just imagine the disaster of a picture of him with ‘Super White Army’ in the background.
    Also speaking as a Tranmere Rovers fan we're not exactly setting the world alight at the moment. You hear the phrase "All Blacks" in the context of Rugby and anyone who knows anything about Rugby knows that means New Zealand.

    How many people would look at that banner and instantly recognise it as Tranmere Rovers nickname without having that explained to them?
    Indeed. And "Super White Army" could be construed as a Trade Descriptions breach.
    Ouch! Very true :(
This discussion has been closed.