Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Precisely. Agree 100%. By any measure the worst decision in the postwar era.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
I believe Mrs May will use her speech to announce that, as Britain will be leaving the European Space Agency, we will be restarting our space programme. The Black Arrow programme will be resurrected, and the plan is to put a man on the moon as early as 2019.
My sources tell me that it will be "Rocket Man Boris Johnson" who will be the first Brit to walk on the moon.
So she's pinched MD's long standing plan of developing a space cannon so that Ed Ball's can be the first man to land on the sun? Shameless.
I believe Mrs May will use her speech to announce that, as Britain will be leaving the European Space Agency, we will be restarting our space programme. The Black Arrow programme will be resurrected, and the plan is to put a man on the moon as early as 2019.
My sources tell me that it will be "Rocket Man Boris Johnson" who will be the first Brit to walk on the moon.
So she's pinched MD's long standing plan of developing a space cannon so that Ed Ball's can be the first man to land on the sun? Shameless.
This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.
Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc
Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority
Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.
Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.
Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.
Osborne can be exonerated, since we know he did all he could to warn Cameron that he was paying with fire. Whether today's Tory party would have him back, however, is very doubtful IMO.
Nah. Cameron the best, the referendum was coming no matter what.
Blame Blair/Brown for not holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty.
Brexit would have been avoided if those two shysters had stuck to their pledges.
I do not think history will place this interpretation on events. A lot of other politicians prepared the way for Munich but Chamberlain was the man who signed the piece of paper so he carries the can. The same will apply to Cameron and his referendum.
And yet again the pensions companies who are major investors on the stock market will get hammered and we will all be worse off. Labour really are a bunch of f#ckwits.
Yeah it's amazing how lefties tend to ignore that investors = pensioners.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
After the recent death of a pedestrian by the cyclist the Govt is going to look at the law, even though the person was successfully prosecuted and I believe a total of 0.3 pedestrians are killed by cyclists a year!
I heard that in the Netherlands children are taught to open car doors using the hand furthest away from the door. This limits the amount you can open the door initially and forces you to turn around so you can see behind you.
Brilliant idea which would save the lives of many more cyclists and motor cyclists every year.
Doing so had never crossed my mind. I will try and remember to do so, but of course it is a habit you need to instil.
Priorities.
I think the fact that the chap was such an obnoxious brat has swayed emotions somewhat. If he'd had shown even a modicum of remorse, compassion, and empathy instead of shouting at the poor woman as she lay dying on the road we would never have heard about that case, or the dangers of cyclists...and he'd probably still be free to cycle around.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Why any sane politician wouldn't want a transition period of 2, 5, 10 years is beyond me. It shows the narrow political gain they personally with to achieve. We are talking about the UK for the next 10, 20, 30 years. What's a year or two to get establish the groundwork?
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Mr. glw, it's shocking how frequently my magnificent manifesto is shamelessly plundered by lesser intellects courting popularity.
It would be a better idea that May's brilliant plan to auto-magically remove terrorist content from the internet in 2 hours. I don't think May, or it seems the government, have any idea how error prone and labour intensive content classification is.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
People are misreading the significance of the speech, I think. This is a courtship dance, which might end happily, or might end in one party stomping out in a huff. Hopefully it won't end in a big row and a fight.
Since it's a courtship dance, the exact content is unlikely to be anything surprising. We pretty much know what she will say; it will be the obvious things we've discussed many times, and indeed won't be very different from her Lancaster House speech: we are leaving the EU, we want a close trading relationship with the EU, we want as seamless a transition as possible, and in return will pay a chunky sum during the transition and perhaps a bit thereafter. All entirely predictable choreography.
Since no-one is going to be surprised by the content, the content is largely irrelevant to the next step. This will be a stage-managed response by the EU27. The exact tone of their dance in response is the key thing. Obviously they won't want to seem too pleased - in this sort of dance, playing hard to get is part of the game. Expect lots of 'some progress but there are still many areas where we seek blah blah blah'. However, clearly the EU27 have been told in advance what is in the speech, and so far they seem to be playing along, which is encouraging. We might see some progress over the next couple of weeks.
This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.
Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc
Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority
Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.
Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.
Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.
Osborne can be exonerated, since we know he did all he could to warn Cameron that he was paying with fire. Whether today's Tory party would have him back, however, is very doubtful IMO.
Nah. Cameron the best, the referendum was coming no matter what.
Blame Blair/Brown for not holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty.
Brexit would have been avoided if those two shysters had stuck to their pledges.
I do not think history will place this interpretation on events. A lot of other politicians prepared the way for Munich but Chamberlain was the man who signed the piece of paper so he carries the can. The same will apply to Cameron and his referendum.
Chamberlain is getting a bit of a re-assessment lately. By postponing the war Britain managed to have ten times as many planes as at the time of Munich. Can't see Cameron's decision being re-assessed anytime.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
I'm sure Tyson can speak for himself, but as an observer it seems to me that he can dislike Tory policies without being accused of 'rejecting democracy'.
Mr. Meeks, Renaissance at 3 (mentioned by me earlier ) looks good.
Mr. glw, it's a depressing level of technical ignorance. Like morons who think a magic 'adult' filter can exist which will both catch everything bad and naughty and wrong using algorithms (which are magic, apparently) and not filter out anything innocent or useful (like stark naked statues from antiquity, or photos of cancer for those worried about sudden lumps).
People are misreading the significance of the speech, I think. This is a courtship dance, which might end happily, or might end in one party stomping out in a huff. Hopefully it won't end in a big row and a fight.
Since it's a courtship dance, the exact content is unlikely to be anything surprising. We pretty much know what she will say; it will be the obvious things we've discussed many times, and indeed won't be very different from her Lancaster House speech: we are leaving the EU, we want a close trading relationship with the EU, we want as seamless a transition as possible, and in return will pay a chunky sum during the transition and perhaps a bit thereafter. All entirely predictable choreography.
Since no-one is going to be surprised by the content, the content is largely irrelevant to the next step. This will be a stage-managed response by the EU27. The exact tone of their dance in response is the key thing. Obviously they won't want to seem too pleased - in this sort of dance, playing hard to get is part of the game. Expect lots of 'some progress but there are still many areas where we seek blah blah blah'. However, clearly the EU27 have been told in advance what is in the speech, and so far they seem to be playing along, which is encouraging. We might see some progress over the next couple of weeks.
How many times will Faisal Tweet that everything is going to hell? |
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Mr. Meeks, Renaissance at 3 (mentioned by me earlier ) looks good.
Mr. glw, it's a depressing level of technical ignorance. Like morons who think a magic 'adult' filter can exist which will both catch everything bad and naughty and wrong using algorithms (which are magic, apparently) and not filter out anything innocent or useful (like stark naked statues from antiquity, or photos of cancer for those worried about sudden lumps).
I'm willing to bet at odds against on something that's known to be in the first draft. Call me reckless if you must.
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.....
Hardly news. This Corbyn, McDonnell and Seamas Milne. What possible reason could anyone have to thinking that they would worry about compensating investors? Their entire careers over decades has consistently be based on the proposition that investors are by definition thieving bastards sucking the life-blood out of the workers.
Mr. Meeks, Renaissance at 3 (mentioned by me earlier ) looks good.
Mr. glw, it's a depressing level of technical ignorance. Like morons who think a magic 'adult' filter can exist which will both catch everything bad and naughty and wrong using algorithms (which are magic, apparently) and not filter out anything innocent or useful (like stark naked statues from antiquity, or photos of cancer for those worried about sudden lumps).
And it's not like the big internet companies aren't already trying to filter out undesirable content from their services. It is a fundamentally difficult problem, and if there was an easy solution it would already be widely used for non-terrorism related issues.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.....
Hardly news. This Corbyn, McDonnell and Seamas Milne. What possible reason could anyone have to thinking that they would worry about compensating investors? Their entire careers over decades has consistently be based on the proposition that investors are by definition thieving bastards sucking the life-blood out of the workers.
I am sure the pensions industry will be absolutely delighted by this news.
No doubt no local government or teachers pension scheme has done anything as capitalist as invest in water or energy utilities.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
They fought the election against holding one (despite holding one having been Lib Dem policy in 2010 and their lame justification for ratifying Lisbon).
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
The lance needed boiling one way or the other. But Cameron implied that he wouldn't commit to staying in without getting things in his negotiation, then got things he couldn't sell. Cameron also let the campaign go ahead without the Leave campaign forced to resolve their contradictions through a White Paper or similar. Both of these were huge factors in losing the vote and it's fair game to criticise how he went about it.
This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.
Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc
Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority
Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.
Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.
Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.
Osborne can be exonerated, since we know he did all he could to warn Cameron that he was paying with fire. Whether today's Tory party would have him back, however, is very doubtful IMO.
Nah. Cameron the best, the referendum was coming no matter what.
Blame Blair/Brown for not holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty.
Brexit would have been avoided if those two shysters had stuck to their pledges.
Don't forget the Lib "Dems" enforcing a three line whip to abstain from the vote on the Lisbon Treaty the pathetic charlatans.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
regional employment variations?
More puzzling is all youths are supposed to be in education or training iirc. No one is suppose to be on the dole at younger age.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The lance needed boiling one way or the other. But Cameron implied that he wouldn't commit to staying in without getting things in his negotiation, then got things he couldn't sell. Cameron also let the campaign go ahead without the Leave campaign forced to resolve their contradictions through a White Paper or similar. Both of these were huge factors in losing the vote and it's fair game to criticise how he went about it.
Sure, and in particular I think with the benefit of hindsight that your second point is a good one. However, it's a bit rich criticising Cameron for that when not a single Remain-supporting politician of any party suggested he was wrong on that.
More puzzling is all youths are supposed to be in education or training iirc. No one is suppose to be on the dole at younger age.
RE above
The unemployment figures are as reliable as the homeless figures where we have countless tens of thousands living on mate's sofas, or being warehoused in run down guest houses.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
I'm not blaming anyone. I think it was right to hold the referendum. So, it seems, did Labour and most LibDem MPs, since they voted in favour of it. And, to be fair, Labour at least seem to broadly respect the result; it would be the height of hypocrisy to vote for a referendum, and then renege on implementing it because it didn't give the answer you wanted.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
regional employment variations?
More puzzling is all youths are supposed to be in education or training iirc. No one is suppose to be on the dole at younger age.
Higher than most people would imagine, but then as you say - the highest rate is among 16-17yr olds who should be in education or training.
Another interesting element is that jobs are going from manufacturing and construction and expected to grow in hospitality services. Put that through the Brexit-o-Prism and make of it what you will.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
And I suppose the majority of voters are nutjobs too.
No wonder the europhiles lost, they hate ordinary people. An undemocratic elite like the EU is exactly what they want to be ruled by.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
Strange that you chose to re-emigrate to the asylum ( Britain ) after the Brexit decision. Actions speak louder than whines.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
There was no way in a gazillion years that he could remain PM without holding the referendum, it would have destroyed the party to go back on that in the same way as going back on tuition fees destroyed the Lib Dems.
Holding the referendum would have been a red line for any Coalition 2.0
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
I think West Mids is one of the places with some islands of high unemployment. I know the constituency I live in has > 10 % unemployment, was the highest in country the last time the mirror or whoever ruined the data.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
The current sentiment is 67 % Brexit 25 % Not. Shows how effective the project fear hoax was during the referendum campaign.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
Could you clear up something for me, please? I assume you don't approve of referendums? Hence you wouldn't approve of another one to rejoin?
You're not, as far as I know, an LD voter, so I won't ask you to explain their logic ... but how do the residual Remainers (if I may call you one of them) square the circle of being for democracy only when it produces the answer you want?
But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.
I totally agree.
The ordinary voters are simple people - they don't see their needs. They can't analyse problems. They need leadership to guide them where they ought to go. The people don't always understand what's good for them.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
Strange that you chose to re-emigrate to the asylum ( Britain ) after the Brexit decision. Actions speak louder than whines.
We were presented with a choice of staying in Italy and potentially precluding my wife's ability to live in the UK in the future (where we have our assets). I don't think people like you can quite understand the real anxiety that the vote has caused for millions of EU citizens with links to the UK. My wife left her elderly parents and has to stay in the UK for 275 days a year to even start her UK residency application.
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.....
Hardly news. This Corbyn, McDonnell and Seamas Milne. What possible reason could anyone have to thinking that they would worry about compensating investors? Their entire careers over decades has consistently be based on the proposition that investors are by definition thieving bastards sucking the life-blood out of the workers.
I am sure the pensions industry will be absolutely delighted by this news.
No doubt no local government or teachers pension scheme has done anything as capitalist as invest in water or energy utilities.
It would also put pressure on those companies which might be at risk of re-nationisation to pay out as much profits as dividends and to keep the value of the company as low as possible.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
There was no way in a gazillion years that he could remain PM without holding the referendum, it would have destroyed the party to go back on that in the same way as going back on tuition fees destroyed the Lib Dems.
Holding the referendum would have been a red line for any Coalition 2.0
There is a strong possibility that attempting to deliver Brexit will destroy the Tory party anyway. At some point in the next 18 months it will have to decide whether to go over the cliff edge or accept a Norway-style EEA transition period of indefinite length. In its current state of collective denial it is far from clear that it can make this choice.
Could you clear up something for me, please? I assume you don't approve of referendums? Hence you wouldn't approve of another one to rejoin?
You're not, as far as I know, an LD voter, so I won't ask you to explain their logic ... but how do the residual Remainers (if I may call you one of them) square the circle of being for democracy only when it produces the answer you want?
We have a Parliamentary Democracy.... I vote one time every five years and expect the MP's to take care of running the country. If people wanted Brexit so much they should have given a Parliamentary majority to UKIP.
Sometimes Parliament takes difficult decisions contrary to public opinion.
If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?
Some excellent public borrowing numbers today. The deficit is now down on last year by £0.3bn, for the fiscal year to date, and at its lowest level since 2007.
@rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.....
Hardly news. This Corbyn, McDonnell and Seamas Milne. What possible reason could anyone have to thinking that they would worry about compensating investors? Their entire careers over decades has consistently be based on the proposition that investors are by definition thieving bastards sucking the life-blood out of the workers.
I am sure the pensions industry will be absolutely delighted by this news.
No doubt no local government or teachers pension scheme has done anything as capitalist as invest in water or energy utilities.
If it ever happens - Labour will pay compensation. At that point we will see the Tories moaning that they have overpaid and wasted taxpayers' money, or underpaid and screwed over pension funds. Or probably both.
"If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?"
Given we'd have a good discussion about it first, it would be interesting. Corbynites would vote enthusiastically for it without listening to the discussion. the Toffs would vote against without listening to the arguments either.
That was a clue to my answer. I wouldn't trust the politicians or political fanatics to find their own arse with a roadmap and a compass. I'd prefer the answer was swayed by those with open minds. So I don't know how it would go. How about you?
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
That is a bit disingenuous 99% might never have physically seen the bus.However the images and it's message were all-over the media where a vast majority will have seen it.
I see that the Canadians are not impressed by our "strategy" to open up to the rest of the world.
"If Britain's acrimonious divorce talks with the EU are anything to go by, the country isn't well-prepared to negotiate a new global web of trade agreements.
Britain's Brexit negotiators have been consistently outplayed by their EU counterparts, who feel that both time and the EU's rules are on their side."
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
I'm sure Tyson can speak for himself, but as an observer it seems to me that he can dislike Tory policies without being accused of 'rejecting democracy'.
Surely being allowed to disagree is part of democracy. Being forbidden to disagree is tyranny.
I see that the Canadians are not impressed by our "strategy" to open up to the rest of the world.
"If Britain's acrimonious divorce talks with the EU are anything to go by, the country isn't well-prepared to negotiate a new global web of trade agreements.
Britain's Brexit negotiators have been consistently outplayed by their EU counterparts, who feel that both time and the EU's rules are on their side."
Cheer up. Our Canadian cousins put on quite a show for the PM ;
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
Since you reject democracy, which form of government do you recommend ?
What makes you think he was rejecting Parliamentary Democracy?
Cameron was elected on the promise of a referendum.
No he was not.
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
Strange that you chose to re-emigrate to the asylum ( Britain ) after the Brexit decision. Actions speak louder than whines.
We were presented with a choice of staying in Italy and potentially precluding my wife's ability to live in the UK in the future (where we have our assets). I don't think people like you can quite understand the real anxiety that the vote has caused for millions of EU citizens with links to the UK. My wife left her elderly parents and has to stay in the UK for 275 days a year to even start her UK residency application.
Could you move your property assets to Italy and live in a better value home and in a better climate?
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
That is a bit disingenuous 99% might never have physically seen the bus.However the images and it's message were all-over the media where a vast majority will have seen it.
The people who did see it only did so alongside the outrage that it was completely untrue. It was presented to them as "look at this disgusting lie the leave campaign have come up with". To try and claim this swung the election is clutching at straws.
Almost no one saw it in the context as an advert for Brexit.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy. That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
I think West Mids is one of the places with some islands of high unemployment. I know the constituency I live in has > 10 % unemployment, was the highest in country the last time the mirror or whoever ruined the data.
One difficulty for the Tories (and the SNP) is that no one really believes the "statistics" that come from their PR departments. Even the members of the party are suspicious. Simple reason when you think about it - they bear no relationship to the real life experiences of people outside of the bubble. When we lie to Politicians, we go to jail, when Politicians lie, they get elected!
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Could you clear up something for me, please? I assume you don't approve of referendums? Hence you wouldn't approve of another one to rejoin?
You're not, as far as I know, an LD voter, so I won't ask you to explain their logic ... but how do the residual Remainers (if I may call you one of them) square the circle of being for democracy only when it produces the answer you want?
We have a Parliamentary Democracy.... I vote one time every five years and expect the MP's to take care of running the country. If people wanted Brexit so much they should have given a Parliamentary majority to UKIP.
Sometimes Parliament takes difficult decisions contrary to public opinion.
If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?
In the post-second world war period referendums were often argued to be too open to manipulation by unscrupulous politicians to be a sensible way of taking decisions. Hitler was, after all, transformed from chancellor to fuhrer with dictatorial power because the German people voted to do so in a referendum. Franco also used referendums to validate his position after the Spanish civil war. With these examples in mind the post-war German constitution, written by the allies, explicitly forbids the use of national referendums.
Switzerland, a country in which the pace of social progress is dictated by referendums, did not give women the vote until 1971. Had the Roy Jenkins social reforms of the 1960s - abortion, gay rights etc - been the subject of referendums it is very unlikely they would have been agreed at that time
Putin's annexation of the Crimea, which is not recognised by any western country, was supported by its people in a referendum.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy. That's a bit John Major for a lefty. All the benefits you list, pretty much, are benefits to the comfortably off with high disposable income, a category which excludes most people. If you thing EUref created the issues you identify, meditate on the fact that in 2010 Brown was calling Mrs Wossname a bigot, but in 2015 item 4 on the Edstone was "Controls on immigration."
Today we were hearing from the PCC of West Midlands (in relation to knife crime) that there is a huge underclass of unemployed male youths who, for one reason or another, feel it necessary to carry a knife. He said it many times (R4, 7.40-ish).
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
I think West Mids is one of the places with some islands of high unemployment. I know the constituency I live in has > 10 % unemployment, was the highest in country the last time the mirror or whoever ruined the data.
One difficulty for the Tories (and the SNP) is that no one really believes the "statistics" that come from their PR departments. Even the members of the party are suspicious. Simple reason when you think about it - they bear no relationship to the real life experiences of people outside of the bubble. When we lie to Politicians, we go to jail, when Politicians lie, they get elected!
I would pay attention to this, but anyone who can't use a quote function has some more serious problems to contend with than someone disagreeing with them on the internet.
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
While this is true, our political failure lay not in the referendum itself, but in the fact that so many people in various elite positions had deluded themselves into thinking that leaving the EU was a good or necessary idea. When people like Mervyn King and Nigel Lawson are so blind to the realities, you can't blame ordinary voters for not being able to make an informed decision. This is a systemic failure of massive proportions. A national tragedy.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
While this is true, our political failure lay not in the referendum itself, but in the fact that so many people in various elite positions had deluded themselves into thinking that leaving the EU was a good or necessary idea. When people like Mervyn King and Nigel Lawson are so blind to the realities, you can't blame ordinary voters for not being able to make an informed decision. This is a systemic failure of massive proportions. A national tragedy.
William, it's worth being minded that you might yourself be deluded and blinded to reality by dogma.
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
The ability to agree our own trade deals is precisely why I voted for Brexit. The EU has not got a trade deal with any non-European nation with a bigger economy than our own.
Could you clear up something for me, please? I assume you don't approve of referendums? Hence you wouldn't approve of another one to rejoin?
You're not, as far as I know, an LD voter, so I won't ask you to explain their logic ... but how do the residual Remainers (if I may call you one of them) square the circle of being for democracy only when it produces the answer you want?
We have a Parliamentary Democracy.... I vote one time every five years and expect the MP's to take care of running the country. If people wanted Brexit so much they should have given a Parliamentary majority to UKIP.
Sometimes Parliament takes difficult decisions contrary to public opinion.
If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?
In the post-second world war period referendums were often argued to be too open to manipulation by unscrupulous politicians to be a sensible way of taking decisions. Hitler was, after all, transformed from chancellor to fuhrer with dictatorial power because the German people voted to do so in a referendum. Franco also used referendums to validate his position after the Spanish civil war. With these examples in mind the post-war German constitution, written by the allies, explicitly forbids the use of national referendums.
Switzerland, a country in which the pace of social progress is dictated by referendums, did not give women the vote until 1971. Had the Roy Jenkins social reforms of the 1960s - abortion, gay rights etc - been the subject of referendums it is very unlikely they would have been agreed at that time
Putin's annexation of the Crimea, which is not recognised by any western country, was supported by its people in a referendum.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
.
I would be unhappy with a decision to leave the EU which was not endorsed by a popular vote.
The referenda that took place in Nazi Germany or Franco's Spain could hardly be considered free or fair. Referenda are used in plenty of liberal democracies.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
That is a bit disingenuous 99% might never have physically seen the bus.However the images and it's message were all-over the media where a vast majority will have seen it.
The people who did see it only did so alongside the outrage that it was completely untrue. It was presented to them as "look at this disgusting lie the leave campaign have come up with". To try and claim this swung the election is clutching at straws.
Almost no one saw it in the context as an advert for Brexit.
What Remainers say: it is an outrage against decency and truthfulness that sleazy lying rat bag leaver scum are conning the electorate by daubing their bus with filthy lies about £350m a week for the NHS;
What the electorate hears: wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble £350M A WEEK FOR THE NHS!!!
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
While this is true, our political failure lay not in the referendum itself, but in the fact that so many people in various elite positions had deluded themselves into thinking that leaving the EU was a good or necessary idea. When people like Mervyn King and Nigel Lawson are so blind to the realities, you can't blame ordinary voters for not being able to make an informed decision. This is a systemic failure of massive proportions. A national tragedy.
Lawson does not surprise me. Many years in politics has taught me that politicians have an unlimited capacity for self-deception and an ability to block out facts which challenge their preconceived prejudices.
Mervyn King is a different case. But I believe that he has not explicitly supported leave, just pointed out that the result of leaving might not be as bad as remainers predicted?
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
That is a bit disingenuous 99% might never have physically seen the bus.However the images and it's message were all-over the media where a vast majority will have seen it.
The people who did see it only did so alongside the outrage that it was completely untrue. It was presented to them as "look at this disgusting lie the leave campaign have come up with". To try and claim this swung the election is clutching at straws.
Almost no one saw it in the context as an advert for Brexit.
What Remainers say: it is an outrage against decency and truthfulness that sleazy lying rat bag leaver scum are conning the electorate by daubing their bus with filthy lies about £350m a week for the NHS;
What the electorate hears: wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble £350M A WEEK FOR THE NHS!!!
Remainers still do not realise this.
Plenty of Remainers realised this. They realised precisely this that the more it was spoken about the more £350m/NHS became a thing.
But it was of course a lie. And an embarrassing one. Even that bellwether PB Leaver Richard Tyndall didn't like it and wished they hadn't used it.
It worked, people liked what they heard, whatever they heard, and Leave won. But no one really comes out well from its use.
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
Pathetic.
In what way?
Yes, we want to make our own trade deals. No, we don't need someone to tie our shoe laces.
I see history is being rewritten as rapidly as ever. To read some of the comments here, anyone not politically aware might get the impression that Labour and the LibDems didn't support the referendum.
Seriously...you want to blame Clegg? Is that right? Re the Referendum.... The Tories did it and own it, end of mate.
The British people did it. 52 % to 48 %. Anti-democrats like yourself got owned.
Mate...I'm surprised in retrospect that the win wasn't bigger. The EU vote was a free vote to put an extra 350 million into the NHS, and make Britain great again. The Farage poster equating the EU with the migrant crisis was genius. Many people thought we'd be leaving the next day.
Well the 48% was to stop the economy collapsing the day after a leave vote.
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
That is a bit disingenuous 99% might never have physically seen the bus.However the images and it's message were all-over the media where a vast majority will have seen it.
The people who did see it only did so alongside the outrage that it was completely untrue. It was presented to them as "look at this disgusting lie the leave campaign have come up with". To try and claim this swung the election is clutching at straws.
Almost no one saw it in the context as an advert for Brexit.
What Remainers say: it is an outrage against decency and truthfulness that sleazy lying rat bag leaver scum are conning the electorate by daubing their bus with filthy lies about £350m a week for the NHS;
What the electorate hears: wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble £350M A WEEK FOR THE NHS!!!
Remainers still do not realise this.
Plenty of Remainers realised this. They realised precisely this that the more it was spoken about the more £350m/NHS became a thing.
But it was of course a lie. And an embarrassing one. Even that bellwether PB Leaver Richard Tyndall didn't like it and wished they hadn't used it.
It worked, people liked what they heard, whatever they heard, and Leave won. But no one really comes out well from its use.
It is probably not a coincidence that Boris named and described, even if he did not invent it, the "dead cat" strategy.
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
I'd much prefer CETA plus, but could live with EEA light with UK controls on immigration.
The devil will be in the detail, as always, but the key thing for me is that Brexit is politically and economically sustainable so, in that sense, a broader consensus helps.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
I wasn't suggesting that we'd apply for actual EEA membership, because that would mean no change from the existing rules on freedom of movement. In the event that we did, yes in principle we could give notice of leaving under the EEA treaty. However, we'd then be faced with the same problems of disruption that we're grappling with now, so it wouldn't be something to do lightly.
EEA membership would allow us to do trade deals elsewhere.
@GuidoFawkes: Remain Cabinet ministers' bullishness about winning this argument rightly has Brexiters worried.
If we end up close to an EEA-style deal but without having to buy in to the full EU/EEA freedom of movement directive, that would be an excellent outcome. As always, though, the issue isn't what the UK government wants, let alone what individual ministers want, it's what we can negotiate with our EU friends.
If we do go for EEA, is it possible to extract ourselves from this further at a later date? Also does it allow us to make trade deals independently from the EU?
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Do we really want to have to make our own trade deals? Surely that was never regarded as being particularly desirable in itself - rather just one of the inconveniences that we'd have to endure in return for the myriad of Brexit goodies.
Pathetic.
In what way?
Yes, we want to make our own trade deals. No, we don't need someone to tie our shoe laces.
When did having 'our own' trade deals become the defining virility symbol of national sovereignty and why? As far as I can tell most of the people who bang on about them aren't really interested in trade policy.
Comments
I think I'm beyond the economic arguments of it all. For me the worst part of the EU vote is how it has fundamentally divided the country, young against old, north versus south, rich versus poor, university educated versus non university educated...and this on top of unleashing anti foreigner sentiment.
Whether Brexit delivers a better economic future is doubtful. What is has done is make this country a far less pleasant.
I live in Norwich (south). It really is a lovely place. Genteel, friendly, safe, chilled, clean, loads of culture (gigs, cinemas, jazz), independent shops galore, lovely parks, vibrant, great mixture of young and old, great restaurants, fantastic pubs, well tended green space, accessible GP surgeries, relatively wealthy....the type of place where the estate agents cycles to appointments, people still get their milk delivered and the ice cream van trundles around on hot days.
I am convinced this is the England that Brexit heartlands yearn for, yet it is a nailed on Remain area with a Corbynite, mixed race MP who returned to his seat with a thumping majority.
"Let me make it clear, we are leaving the European Union" etc.. (But not saying Brexit)
Can't see anything obvious for the punters though.
It is nothing other than naked self-interest.
Which of course is obvious, that said.
Since it's a courtship dance, the exact content is unlikely to be anything surprising. We pretty much know what she will say; it will be the obvious things we've discussed many times, and indeed won't be very different from her Lancaster House speech: we are leaving the EU, we want a close trading relationship with the EU, we want as seamless a transition as possible, and in return will pay a chunky sum during the transition and perhaps a bit thereafter. All entirely predictable choreography.
Since no-one is going to be surprised by the content, the content is largely irrelevant to the next step. This will be a stage-managed response by the EU27. The exact tone of their dance in response is the key thing. Obviously they won't want to seem too pleased - in this sort of dance, playing hard to get is part of the game. Expect lots of 'some progress but there are still many areas where we seek blah blah blah'. However, clearly the EU27 have been told in advance what is in the speech, and so far they seem to be playing along, which is encouraging. We might see some progress over the next couple of weeks.
Can't see Cameron's decision being re-assessed anytime.
But hold on, isn't unemployment at record low levels, employment at record highs? How come in the West Midlands, across the region, we are being told that the PCC is working with the Mayor to try to find a solution for this unemployment.
What gives?
(genuine question - I might have to jump on to Google to find out)
Mr. glw, it's a depressing level of technical ignorance. Like morons who think a magic 'adult' filter can exist which will both catch everything bad and naughty and wrong using algorithms (which are magic, apparently) and not filter out anything innocent or useful (like stark naked statues from antiquity, or photos of cancer for those worried about sudden lumps).
Cameron was already in office when he promised a referendum. He was re-elected on the promise of a referendum but by that point he'd already made and announced the decision while in office to call it.
No doubt no local government or teachers pension scheme has done anything as capitalist as invest in water or energy utilities.
More puzzling is all youths are supposed to be in education or training iirc. No one is suppose to be on the dole at younger age.
regional employment variations?
More puzzling is all youths are supposed to be in education or training iirc. No one is suppose to be on the dole at younger age.
RE above
The unemployment figures are as reliable as the homeless figures where we have countless tens of thousands living on mate's sofas, or being warehoused in run down guest houses.
ey.com/uk/en/newsroom/news-releases/16-08-30---stark-variations-in-youth-unemployment-levels-across-west-midlands-and-uk-could-impact-local-economic-growth
Higher than most people would imagine, but then as you say - the highest rate is among 16-17yr olds who should be in education or training.
Another interesting element is that jobs are going from manufacturing and construction and expected to grow in hospitality services. Put that through the Brexit-o-Prism and make of it what you will.
Cameron in a gazillion years never thought that the Tories would win a majority. Didn't he also put in fox hunting too, knowing a Tory 100 plus majority is the only way that horror will be revisited.
The referendum was a little bit of red meat thrown out to his nutjobs. But now the crazies have taken over the asylum.
No wonder the europhiles lost, they hate ordinary people. An undemocratic elite like the EU is exactly what they want to be ruled by.
Holding the referendum would have been a red line for any Coalition 2.0
People voted because they didn't want to be in the EU. You've been told this repeatedly for over a year and yet you still can't comprehend it. In your mind people were simply duped by a bus that 99% of people never ever even saw.
https://twitter.com/CataloniaHelp2/status/910793380321546240
Could you clear up something for me, please? I assume you don't approve of referendums? Hence you wouldn't approve of another one to rejoin?
You're not, as far as I know, an LD voter, so I won't ask you to explain their logic ... but how do the residual Remainers (if I may call you one of them) square the circle of being for democracy only when it produces the answer you want?
The ordinary voters are simple people - they don't see their needs. They can't analyse problems. They need leadership to guide them where they ought to go. The people don't always understand what's good for them.
Basically, that would be a bad thing.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/910742793664045056
https://twitter.com/UNYouthIRL/status/910617863622406145
Sometimes Parliament takes difficult decisions contrary to public opinion.
If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?
Some excellent public borrowing numbers today. The deficit is now down on last year by £0.3bn, for the fiscal year to date, and at its lowest level since 2007.
At that point we will see the Tories moaning that they have overpaid and wasted taxpayers' money, or underpaid and screwed over pension funds. Or probably both.
"If we had a referendum tomorrow on increasing taxes on the top 5% and multi national corporations to put 350 million in to the NHS how would people vote?"
Given we'd have a good discussion about it first, it would be interesting. Corbynites would vote enthusiastically for it without listening to the discussion. the Toffs would vote against without listening to the arguments either.
That was a clue to my answer. I wouldn't trust the politicians or political fanatics to find their own arse with a roadmap and a compass. I'd prefer the answer was swayed by those with open minds. So I don't know how it would go. How about you?
"If Britain's acrimonious divorce talks with the EU are anything to go by, the country isn't well-prepared to negotiate a new global web of trade agreements.
Britain's Brexit negotiators have been consistently outplayed by their EU counterparts, who feel that both time and the EU's rules are on their side."
http://www.cityam.com/272416/looking-forward-new-era-uk-canada-free-trade
The CBC hack , Evan Dyer, is an embittered non-entity.
Almost no one saw it in the context as an advert for Brexit.
Thanks for you summary on Brexit the other day by the way.
Switzerland, a country in which the pace of social progress is dictated by referendums, did not give women the vote until 1971. Had the Roy Jenkins social reforms of the 1960s - abortion, gay rights etc - been the subject of referendums it is very unlikely they would have been agreed at that time
Putin's annexation of the Crimea, which is not recognised by any western country, was supported by its people in a referendum.
Referendums are not the ultimate form of democracy - they frequently take bad decisions - the EU referendum is the latest of many occasions in which voters have been told that the exercise of their vote would produce an outcome which those who offered it knew could not be delivered.
.
Aaah! You're talking about rejoining?
The referenda that took place in Nazi Germany or Franco's Spain could hardly be considered free or fair. Referenda are used in plenty of liberal democracies.
What the electorate hears: wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble wibble £350M A WEEK FOR THE NHS!!!
Remainers still do not realise this.
Mervyn King is a different case. But I believe that he has not explicitly supported leave, just pointed out that the result of leaving might not be as bad as remainers predicted?
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/910828824224550912
But it was of course a lie. And an embarrassing one. Even that bellwether PB Leaver Richard Tyndall didn't like it and wished they hadn't used it.
It worked, people liked what they heard, whatever they heard, and Leave won. But no one really comes out well from its use.
The devil will be in the detail, as always, but the key thing for me is that Brexit is politically and economically sustainable so, in that sense, a broader consensus helps.
Leave: We send £350mn a week.
Remain: No you forgot the rebate! Its only £250mn a week.
Public heard:
Leave: We send very large amount of money to the EU.
Remain: We have a rebate. Its only a very large amount of money to the EU.
No wonder Leave won that argument.
EEA membership would allow us to do trade deals elsewhere.