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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The buzzword bingo on Theresa May’s Florence speech

SystemSystem Posts: 12,259
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The buzzword bingo on Theresa May’s Florence speech

Ladbrokes have a market up on what Theresa May might say in her Florence speech tomorrow, and I get the feeling that this is another market that will help contribute to the Ladbrokes Christmas bonus fund.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    I dont see Liverpool FC are crap on that list

  • Second : like Hammond.
  • I quite fancy "Thatcher" will get a run out - she knows it will resonate over the water, Strong and Stable made me chuckle
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Transitional arrangement and Renaissance both look possibles. Some clearly are not - e.g. there is zero chance that she'll talk about Corbyn orFarage inan international speech.
  • What price, "and we'll hear what the new German Chancellor thinks on Monday"?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,270

    I dont see Liverpool FC are crap on that list

    Too bad their manager didn't follow Mrs May's mantra when it came to Oxlade-Chamberlain: No deal is better than a bad deal.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,270
    On topic, definitely a market to avoid.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Is the 10% threshold for Labour leadership elections now a foregone conclusion?
  • There were a flurry of pieces after Trump's victory showing the correlation between both opioid abuse and prescription and his electoral support. Two new pieces here putting the problem in the context of life expectancy figures.

    http://wapo.st/2wG1mnO and https://nyti.ms/2ydE7TA
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    AndyJS said:

    Is the 10% threshold for Labour leadership elections now a foregone conclusion?

    Yes. NEC agrees, unions agree, constituency delegates overwhelmingly agree. A few delegates might try for 5 or 15, but they won't get anywhere. It's no longer seen as very controversial. Centrists are concerned about the general direction and what Katy Clark might come up with, but there isn't any particular issue that is exciting many people at the moment, and the general feeling is that it's not the moment for introspection.
  • Transitional arrangement and Renaissance both look possibles. Some clearly are not - e.g. there is zero chance that she'll talk about Corbyn orFarage inan international speech.

    Renaissance was actually in the first draft that was snapped by the paps.

  • Interesting summary of where things stand in the Catalonian and Kurdish independence referendums.

    http://wapo.st/2xS6vOH
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838
    edited September 2017
    Lay 'sorry' and 'Boris'
  • A good summary on the Kenyan Supreme Court annulling the result of the presidential election.

    https://nyti.ms/2ydmhzK
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484
    Evening all. Unexpectedly early snow in the Rockies so that it all looks like a beautiful Xmas card. What a treat! I also ate a quite delicious bison meatloaf this evening and am now very cosy in front of a log fire.

    Mrs M's speech could be summarised thus: "Oh holy fuck! What have we done? Please help."
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,399
    It depends how precise the terms have to be. Mrs May will probably mention trading globally but is less likely to use the three words Global Trading Power in that precise combination. On that basis single words are better value. Renaissance is more likely than not and Thatcher might be worth a punt.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2017
    FF43 said:

    It depends how precise the terms have to be. Mrs May will probably mention trading globally but is less likely to use the three words Global Trading Power in that precise combination. On that basis single words are better value. Renaissance is more likely than not and Thatcher might be worth a punt.

    Of the longer odds, Total Chaos looks OK.

    May has to choose between pleading, or cold threatening arrogance. My money would be on the latter. She has squared it with Boris, and the real target is surviving the Tory conference intact.
  • She says "I'm very clear" in interviews a lot, normally when she is being anything but clear and deflecting questions, but in a speech I'm not so sure.
  • Rocket Man at 100/1.

    No, she won't say it. But boy do I want to back it.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Rocket Man at 100/1.

    No, she won't say it. But boy do I want to back it.

    And now so do I.
  • No 'now is not the time'?
    I suppose Tessy did kick the bottom out of that particular rusty bucket.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,717
    what an odious creep you are
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Hmm. I do quite like Global Trading Power, but a three word phrase is less likely than a shorter one. I've backed that, and Renaissance, both with tiny sums.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,399

    FF43 said:

    It depends how precise the terms have to be. Mrs May will probably mention trading globally but is less likely to use the three words Global Trading Power in that precise combination. On that basis single words are better value. Renaissance is more likely than not and Thatcher might be worth a punt.

    Of the longer odds, Total Chaos looks OK.

    May has to choose between pleading, or cold threatening arrogance. My money would be on the latter. She has squared it with Boris, and the real target is surviving the Tory conference intact.
    I think it's quite likely to be the reaching out speech Mrs May should have made a year ago when it would have had a hearing and might have made a difference. We past generalities now. We have probably just a few weeks left where we can bring any of our limited influence to bear. We can only do that by being clear on the compromises that need to be made and being realistic and concrete in our proposals. Otherwise we either sign on the dotted line or crash out and if we delay on the first, businesses and other stakeholders will already be proceeding on the assumption of the second.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    When is Nighthawks going to return to PB? I finally saw the original painting the other day.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Is the 10% threshold for Labour leadership elections now a foregone conclusion?

    Yes. NEC agrees, unions agree, constituency delegates overwhelmingly agree. A few delegates might try for 5 or 15, but they won't get anywhere. It's no longer seen as very controversial. Centrists are concerned about the general direction and what Katy Clark might come up with, but there isn't any particular issue that is exciting many people at the moment, and the general feeling is that it's not the moment for introspection.
    Thanks.
  • I dont see Liverpool FC are crap on that list

    It's almost as if without Mane, they cease to be.
  • She says "I'm very clear" in interviews a lot, normally when she is being anything but clear and deflecting questions, but in a speech I'm not so sure.

    The trouble is we are trying to second guess not just the Prime Minister but also her speechwriters, and since Number 10 is said to have a new team after Nick and Fiona carried the can for Lynton Crosby messing up the election and the PM calling it in the first place, there is not much form to go on.

    I'd start by crossing out everything that looks aimed at a domestic audience. This is not the party conference. Transitional arrangement, renaissance and bright future make some appeal. Perhaps Boris, if she starts by naming the Brexit team but she might say FS instead. It is a bit of fun but at the prices and stake limits, we are not going to get rich.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    This Florence speech has been hyped too far, if it doesn't rival "I have a dream" it will be a failure.
  • Mr. Jonathan, dare I accuse you of expectations management? :p
  • Morning all,

    Is 'British Sea Power' in the list?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    I can't take May seriously. Yesterday's woman.

    When I hear Florence speech I think of the Magic Roundabout.
  • I dont see Liverpool FC are crap on that list

    It's almost as if without Mane, they cease to be.
    Fifty six. Fifty fucking six chances Liverpool have created in our last two matches.

    1 fucking goal scored from those chances.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Yes, but most people in Barcelona have jobs to go to
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I'd much rather go and watch Joe Stigloe, with or without big band than listen to anything T May might say. Its guaranteed to be forgotten in a few moments, whilst a Stilgoe performance will be long remembered foir its excellence..
    eg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qN_Oucipr8
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    I can't take May seriously. Yesterday's woman.

    Shouldn't be a problem given you're one of the few Blair fanbois left...
  • Morning all,

    Is 'British Sea Power' in the list?

    No, that was the complete list as per 2.30 this morning.

    If you ask Shadsy on Twitter he’ll price up that for you.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    I can't take May seriously. Yesterday's woman.

    Shouldn't be a problem given you're one of the few Blair fanbois left...
    Blair has more influence on policy than May. Quite frankly so do we.
  • FF43 said:

    It depends how precise the terms have to be. Mrs May will probably mention trading globally but is less likely to use the three words Global Trading Power in that precise combination. On that basis single words are better value. Renaissance is more likely than not and Thatcher might be worth a punt.

    Of the longer odds, Total Chaos looks OK.

    May has to choose between pleading, or cold threatening arrogance. My money would be on the latter. She has squared it with Boris, and the real target is surviving the Tory conference intact.
    "the real target is surviving the Tory conference intact"
    I'm afraid you're right, where are the real statesmen and women when we need them?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    I can't take May seriously. Yesterday's woman.

    Shouldn't be a problem given you're one of the few Blair fanbois left...
    Blair has more influence on policy than May. Quite frankly so do we.
    Because you want it to be true doesn't make it so.

    We're going to have 36 hours of speculation for what she is going to say.

    And, hilariousy, she is then going to repeat the bones of the Lancaster House speech, with something on a two year transition - I reckon...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    I believe Mrs May will use her speech to announce that, as Britain will be leaving the European Space Agency, we will be restarting our space programme. The Black Arrow programme will be resurrected, and the plan is to put a man on the moon as early as 2019.

    My sources tell me that it will be "Rocket Man Boris Johnson" who will be the first Brit to walk on the moon.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe Mrs May will use her speech to announce that, as Britain will be leaving the European Space Agency, we will be restarting our space programme. The Black Arrow programme will be resurrected, and the plan is to put a man on the moon as early as 2019.

    My sources tell me that it will be "Rocket Man Boris Johnson" who will be the first Brit to walk on the moon.

    :)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    A risky mission to fire a man up to Boris Johnsons ego and return him safely to Earth.
  • malcolmg said:

    what an odious creep you are
    What have you been told about talking to yourself?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    malcolmg said:

    what an odious creep you are
    What have you been told about talking to yourself?
    "That's your mum that is."
  • I see Trump's latest round of Batsh*t craziness has again coincided with an escalation in the Special Counsel investigation. After the narrative break for the Hurricanes it's all cranking up again and moving toward to denouement. We'll have to hope our vulgar little spasm of ethnonationalism in the Brexit vote isn't a last Edwardian summer.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.
  • FF43 said:

    It depends how precise the terms have to be. Mrs May will probably mention trading globally but is less likely to use the three words Global Trading Power in that precise combination. On that basis single words are better value. Renaissance is more likely than not and Thatcher might be worth a punt.

    Of the longer odds, Total Chaos looks OK.

    May has to choose between pleading, or cold threatening arrogance. My money would be on the latter. She has squared it with Boris, and the real target is surviving the Tory conference intact.
    The real real target is convincing whoever will be the new German Chancellor after Sunday's Federal election, to have a word with the commission.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    Days before the German election after which point we hope all this shadow boxing ends and we can get down to the real business?

    Sounds about right timing. Mistake was calling Article 50 before the German election given we knew nothing would happen between the two events.
  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.
  • Great long profile of Angela Merkel by Alberto Nardelli.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/these-young-german-voters-explain-why-angela-merkel-is-on

    The same official describes Merkel’s way of operating: “Merkel is a phenomenon. First, she breaks every big problem down into small parts. In this way she gets round some issues, and pushes others well into the future. It’s like an algorithm.

    “Second, she turns everything into a process. She leads like a teacher: She hands out tasks, everyone has a place, and she knows everyone’s role. Once you’re in her process, it’s done. Third, she never loses her cool."

    Another senior European diplomat said: “Merkel knows every dossier, in detail. She is the only leader at international meetings [e.g. G7, G20, NATO summits, European Councils] who could write a communique all by herself. She can change the words in a document because she understands the subtlety of their meaning.”
  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe Mrs May will use her speech to announce that, as Britain will be leaving the European Space Agency, we will be restarting our space programme. The Black Arrow programme will be resurrected, and the plan is to put a man on the moon as early as 2019.

    My sources tell me that it will be "Rocket Man Boris Johnson" who will be the first Brit to walk on the moon.

    Please don't tease. It's emblematic of our decline that Britain is the only country in the world to have developed the ability to launch satellites into space and given it up.

    At least we still have Ascension Island...
  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
    Just as during the election the parties seeking government were close together on the key European issues like ending free movement etc - after the elections the parties diverged again.

    After the election Merkel will have room to move if she wants to.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.

  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
    Just as during the election the parties seeking government were close together on the key European issues like ending free movement etc - after the elections the parties diverged again.

    After the election Merkel will have room to move if she wants to.
    But there is zero evidence that she wants to.

    Morning all.
  • I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
    Just as during the election the parties seeking government were close together on the key European issues like ending free movement etc - after the elections the parties diverged again.

    After the election Merkel will have room to move if she wants to.
    But there is zero evidence that she wants to.

    Morning all.
    She's a pragmatist who has a history of putting off decisions until later on. To postpone decisions until after her election fits her MO.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
    Just as during the election the parties seeking government were close together on the key European issues like ending free movement etc - after the elections the parties diverged again.

    After the election Merkel will have room to move if she wants to.
    But there is zero evidence that she wants to.

    Morning all.
    She's a pragmatist who has a history of putting off decisions until later on. To postpone decisions until after her election fits her MO.
    In fact, she has a history of totally reversing positions. Not sure whether it will have any impact here, but the idea that Merkel is this statue of certainty is guffaw-worthy.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2017
    May'speech at the UN may give some clues, albeit at odds with us leaving our prime form of economic and social co operation:

    “It is the fundamental values that we share, values of fairness, justice and human rights, that have created the common cause between nations to act together in our shared interest and form the multilateral system."

    “And it is this rules-based system which we have developed – including the institutions, the international frameworks of free and fair trade, agreements such as the Paris climate change accord, and laws and conventions like the non-proliferation treaty – which enables the global co-operation through which we can protect those values.”
  • She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.

    Is that why she's invited the senior members of the cabinet?
  • Mortimer said:

    I see the German election is the latest white feather that the Leave Dumbos are clutching to. There is a broad consensus on Brexit in Germany and it isn't an election issue. The result is going to change nothing.

    It's not the latest white feather its one many people have been pointing to all along.
    It's nonsense. Aside from those who want to celebrate the role of German soldiers in the Second World War, you'd struggle to slide a cigarette paper between the positions of the other parties on the subject. There is no impasse that needs breaking.
    Just as during the election the parties seeking government were close together on the key European issues like ending free movement etc - after the elections the parties diverged again.

    After the election Merkel will have room to move if she wants to.
    But there is zero evidence that she wants to.

    Morning all.
    She's a pragmatist who has a history of putting off decisions until later on. To postpone decisions until after her election fits her MO.
    In fact, she has a history of totally reversing positions. Not sure whether it will have any impact here, but the idea that Merkel is this statue of certainty is guffaw-worthy.
    Indeed it all seems to come down to not conceding everything to the Greeks when they threatened to quit - except the Greeks quitting was known to be a hollow threat as they were bankrupt and massive net recipients from the Germans. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

    In other instances Merkel has repeatedly reversed position. "There will be no bailout, no bailout, no bailout, no you can't have a bailout, take this bailout".

    Where the Greeks wanted both the German money and to tell the Germans what to do, the Germans in this instance want our money. We are the creditors not the debtors. The whole dynamic is different but there is none so blind as those who will not see.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.

    Is that why she's invited the senior members of the cabinet?
    Presumably she will speak to them through her jetlag at cabinet today. A fly on the wall would be interesting!
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Hard Working Families seems reasonable value at 5s.

    I think the speech will get sentiment back on track (oh look, they are making plans, they are engaging, they aren't being that dogmatic).

    That said, sentiment only. I still don't see a workable post-March 2019 UK that doesn't involve staying as is for the subsequent 2-3 years at a minimum.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
    I think she sees these occasions as ones to deliver "home truths". Both her Nasty Party and Police Federation speeches bit her back. All those police cuts did not go down well at the GE.

    May telling similar "home truths" to the EU leaders is very possible. Will it be helpful? almost certainly not. May combines rigidity of thought with lack of people skills in a way that makes her particularly ill suited to the task of diplomatic negotiation.
  • This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    I wonder if Theresa will take the bus to the venue and witness the legacy of Britain's intervention in Libya as scores of young migrants shuffle around the city without purpose as Italy hurdles towards the grotesque nihilism of the populist Cinque Stille.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,781
    tyson said:

    I wonder if Theresa will take the bus to the venue and witness the legacy of Britain's intervention in Libya as scores of young migrants shuffle around the city without purpose as Italy hurdles towards the grotesque nihilism of the populist Cinque Stille.

    While the migrants are definitely there I doubt the intervention in Libya actually made much difference. The typical aim of any young adult in Africa at the moment is to get enough money to move somewhere richer than the village / town they are in.....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,763
    May's one of those pols who just wants to be PM. When they actually get the job, they're lost. They speak of duty. But offer no leadership. For them in getting the job, they're done. June's election was all about validating her position.

    We won't progress til she goes.

    . Boris has same weakness.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518

    I dont see Liverpool FC are crap on that list

    It's almost as if without Mane, they cease to be.
    Fifty six. Fifty fucking six chances Liverpool have created in our last two matches.

    1 fucking goal scored from those chances.
    More worrying should be the number on target rather than the one goal. The goalie can have a blinder, but if it isn't on target it can't go in.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.

    Is that why she's invited the senior members of the cabinet?
    Presumably she will speak to them through her jetlag at cabinet today. A fly on the wall would be interesting!

    If you find the machinations of Tory party politics still interesting, even now, you really deserve a political geek award. If you notice from this site the attritional effect of politics have driven many of us away, leaving mostly the hard core headbangers, or Mr Morris talking about F1.

    At least I still have gigs. I saw the Mary Chain this week and realised why the gigs are better now than back in the day. The bands are older, sober, more professional, grateful still to be playing and that music from that era is great.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    Brexit is probably the worst offer on the list - I think speeches would often not use an abbreviated term like that...
  • This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    And yet again the pensions companies who are major investors on the stock market will get hammered and we will all be worse off. Labour really are a bunch of f#ckwits.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
    I think she sees these occasions as ones to deliver "home truths". Both her Nasty Party and Police Federation speeches bit her back. All those police cuts did not go down well at the GE.

    May telling similar "home truths" to the EU leaders is very possible. Will it be helpful? almost certainly not. May combines rigidity of thought with lack of people skills in a way that makes her particularly ill suited to the task of diplomatic negotiation.
    And when you add to that her weak political position, record of backing down when the going got rough and inability to carry her cabinet with her (let alone her party or country) it is hard to take any of her pronouncements seriously.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    eek said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if Theresa will take the bus to the venue and witness the legacy of Britain's intervention in Libya as scores of young migrants shuffle around the city without purpose as Italy hurdles towards the grotesque nihilism of the populist Cinque Stille.

    While the migrants are definitely there I doubt the intervention in Libya actually made much difference. The typical aim of any young adult in Africa at the moment is to get enough money to move somewhere richer than the village / town they are in.....
    You really believe that creating a failed African state with established transit routes on Italy's borders has nothing to do with the Italian migrant crisis? Or am I just quoting fake news?
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
    Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.

    Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
    I think she sees these occasions as ones to deliver "home truths". Both her Nasty Party and Police Federation speeches bit her back. All those police cuts did not go down well at the GE.

    May telling similar "home truths" to the EU leaders is very possible. Will it be helpful? almost certainly not. May combines rigidity of thought with lack of people skills in a way that makes her particularly ill suited to the task of diplomatic negotiation.
    If the comments 'bit her back', it's because they were wilfully misrepresented. Would you prefer things not to be said - and in which case, how does that fit in with your new-found fondness for that truthsayer, Corbyn?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard might be worth a go.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    edited September 2017
    eek said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if Theresa will take the bus to the venue and witness the legacy of Britain's intervention in Libya as scores of young migrants shuffle around the city without purpose as Italy hurdles towards the grotesque nihilism of the populist Cinque Stille.

    While the migrants are definitely there I doubt the intervention in Libya actually made much difference. The typical aim of any young adult in Africa at the moment is to get enough money to move somewhere richer than the village / town they are in.....
    Tyson's very valid point is that by destabilising Libya we have provided a route to the Mediterranean for the migrants. Tunisia and Egypt on either side ate not major sources of migrant shipping because they have stable and effective police and military assets which enforce their laws. Libya is now an open door through which the migrants can pass and tbat is primarily because of yet another failed western adventure.
  • Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Jonathan said:

    May's one of those pols who just wants to be PM. When they actually get the job, they're lost. They speak of duty. But offer no leadership. For them in getting the job, they're done. June's election was all about validating her position.

    We won't progress til she goes.

    . Boris has same weakness.


    I watched Boris the other day....his eyes are dead, devoid of emotion. You see that look in psychiatric units, patients on lithium. Gordon Brown had a dead expression, but I kind of took that as him being blind. Boris? I dunno...it's quite unnerving....
  • dixiedean said:

    My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard might be worth a go.

    shadsy is taking suggestions on twitter.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    rkrkrk said:

    Brexit is probably the worst offer on the list - I think speeches would often not use an abbreviated term like that...

    Brexit is a terrible term.....it was used essentially by the Remain camp to sully the other side. I'm a Remainer, but always thought that it was a massive mistake for leave to take ownership of the word Brexit after the vote. May's Brexit means Brexit speech kind of sealed it.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
    Yes, she merely reported to the delegates that 'nasty party' was a phrase their enemies used to describe them. It was hardly brave or controversial.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
    Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.

    Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
    But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.

    Osborne can be exonerated, since we know he did all he could to warn Cameron that he was paying with fire. Whether today's Tory party would have him back, however, is very doubtful IMO.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
    A R4 programme discussed very fishy goings-on at Thames Water.

    By contrast, Welsh Water had the shareholders booted out in 2001 ... when Rhodri Morgan (RIP) ran Wales. WW funds itself entirely via debt.

    So, what's the problem? Shares pay higher returns but are riskier than bonds. Corbyn seems to be struggling to reach a solution akin to WW but he's a less skilful politician than Morgan.

    If the owners of the English water companies are gaming the system to obtain 10-15%/y returns on the equity, offset by very low-interest debt, why shouldn't shareholders or speculators carry the can? The rule for investors is caveat emptor.

    However, there also seems to have been a regulatory failure as Thames Water's owners shouldn't be allowed to behave this way. The previous water regulator, i.e. of 20 yrs ago, sort of admitted this on the programme. Bottom line: water prices in Thames region are higher than they should be.

    I don't currently own any shares but I have done in the past. If I owned shares in former nationalised industries and they were compulsorily converted into gilts, paying a lower, but safer return, I don't think I'd be outraged.
  • Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.

    Well Comrade Corbyn as PM might look appealing after a bad Brexit deal has trashed the economy.
  • Mr. Nick, but would you regard the wrong decision as holding the referendum or the execution of the campaign?

    Mr. Eagles, only to people who think the Thracian shepherd made a good emperor.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    Mr. Eagles, I wonder if those who are alarmingly relaxed about Comrade Corbyn becoming PM remain that way having read Labour's socialist nationalisation policy.

    Whatever you think of Labour's policy, I doubt even the worst excesses of a hard left Govt could actually do anything as utterly corrosive and divisive to the country as calling that EU vote. For that one act of monumental incompetence the Tory deserves a footnote in history, and we may well have seen the last time it wins an election.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,042

    Off topic but on today's news

    After the recent death of a pedestrian by the cyclist the Govt is going to look at the law, even though the person was successfully prosecuted and I believe a total of 0.3 pedestrians are killed by cyclists a year!

    I heard that in the Netherlands children are taught to open car doors using the hand furthest away from the door. This limits the amount you can open the door initially and forces you to turn around so you can see behind you.

    Brilliant idea which would save the lives of many more cyclists and motor cyclists every year.

    Doing so had never crossed my mind. I will try and remember to do so, but of course it is a habit you need to instil.

    Priorities.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    This is not investment advice but if you think Corbyn is likely to become PM and you have shares in privatised companies....

    @rosschawkins: V interesting looking at Labour’s nationalisation plans… investors wouldn’t necessarily get compensated for full market value of shares.

    Amount investors get could depend on how Labour thinks companies have behaved since privatisation. How much they’ve invested etc

    Party has said would force by law investors to swap shares for govt debt – water firms a priority

    Fundamental shift on ownership obviously, but also basis on which we do business.

    Feck. PNN and NG in my case. I hate socialists.
    Time to put the band back together and make Dave PM and George Chancellor.

    Those two would crucify Corbyn and McDonnell on the economy and win the Tories a landslide.
    But Cameron's decision to hold the EU referendum in the way he did was the most catastrophic political misjudgment since Chamberlain accepted Hitler's word at Munich. More than one commentator has drawn parallels with Lord North. Surely a return to public life would be impossible for him.

    Osborne can be exonerated, since we know he did all he could to warn Cameron that he was paying with fire. Whether today's Tory party would have him back, however, is very doubtful IMO.
    Nah. Cameron the best, the referendum was coming no matter what.

    Blame Blair/Brown for not holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty.

    Brexit would have been avoided if those two shysters had stuck to their pledges.
  • tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    May's one of those pols who just wants to be PM. When they actually get the job, they're lost. They speak of duty. But offer no leadership. For them in getting the job, they're done. June's election was all about validating her position.

    We won't progress til she goes.

    . Boris has same weakness.


    I watched Boris the other day....his eyes are dead, devoid of emotion. You see that look in psychiatric units, patients on lithium. Gordon Brown had a dead expression, but I kind of took that as him being blind. Boris? I dunno...it's quite unnerving....
    I suspect Boris's recent 'leadership' manoeuvres were born of panic, spooked as he was by Rees-Mogg stealing his act and supplanting him in Tory affections. Theresa can finish him off for good on Friday by completely disavowing his hard-Brexit rabble rousing. If Boris doesn't immediately resign then, like Portillo before him, it's over.
  • Theresa May has no problem with thoughtful analytical set pieces. I expect the speech will be considered and intelligent. And far too late: she doesn't move quickly enough.

    She does have a rather unfortunate tendency to insult her audience. "Nasty party" and the police federation for example. It wouldn't surprise me if she were to do the same on Friday with her characteristic charm and emotional intelligence.
    The 'nasty party' speech was, if you read it in full, correct. For some reason I can't quite understand it's been totally misinterpreted by the left.

    As for the police federation: she may have 'insulted' them, but it's certainly arguable that she was right, and that some home (office) truths needed to be said to them.
    It is the right not the left who misinterpreted the nasty party speech.

    The police federation speech was given to the wrong audience. It was insulting because her attacks were aimed at rank and file plods and plonks and not the chief officers (ACPO as was, or even, heaven forfend, the Home Secretary) who might be in a position to change policies. It's like haranguing the guard if there are no seats on a ram-packed train.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Those in the Tory party pushing for a hardline no-deal scenario need to switch their brains on and think about the economic and electoral implications. The alternative to constructing a bridge to Brexit is best viewed not so much as “hard Brexit” but as stupid Brexit. “Boris is prepared to crash out despite having no idea what it means. He seems to be for brainless Brexit,” says a minister who despairs of his lack of attention to detail. “He doesn’t understand economics, or supply chains. This is no longer about Leavers or Remainers, this is about making sensible arrangements and helping business and the economy.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-is-mays-last-chance-toreassure-business-d0w60kwft
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