politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got in for May
The front page of The Sunday Telegraph. Sunday Times says Gove & Boris have mended their relationship. Feels like the end game for Mrs May pic.twitter.com/R8rBnaEcYG
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
We have been for the last 25 years then the other congenital idiot IDS started it. Not once in that entire quarter century have they ruled for the good of the country.
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
The oddest thing about Brexit to my mind is the total disconnect between the political risks, which would be huge even if we had a properly functional government with a good majority, and the complacency of business and the financial markets, both in the UK and in the EU27. Essentially, the markets seem to be priced on the basis that there will be a smooth agreement, no disruption to trade, and a continuance of the sound financial governance we have had since 2010.
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnell extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
Well my bet on Rees-Mogg at 25-1 is looking better value by the day. I backed Corbyn at 25-1 and Macron at 20-1, so there seems to be a theme here. Unfortunately I backed Watford to win this afternoon; that wasn't so sensible.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
Corbyn will get the credit.
Yes - but the irony is that this will be popular with tax payers and seen as affordable so making Corbyn's job of justifying complete abolition unrealistic
Things are looking critical for Theresa now. She needs to do something drastic. How about getting George Osborne back in the Cabinet, in the same way that Brown did with Mandelson? That would warm her to the huge juicy chunk of Remain supporters who are fearful of Jezza and also assuage the EU, who must think we've been taken over by nutters. Moreover, the bumbling Boris and pipsqueak Gove would be no match for Ozzy's dark arts. This makes an enormous amount of sense.
Speaking to the Observer, the leader of the socialist bloc, Gianni Pittella, fumed: “Boris Johnson is embarrassing his country once again by repeating the lies of the Leave campaign. He is jeopardising the Brexit negotiations by threatening to turn the UK into a low-regulation economy. And he insults the intelligence of the British people with his tub-thumping jingoism. It is more in keeping with Trump Tower than Whitehall.”
The Italian MEP, echoing the thoughts of many in the European commission, added: “This appears to be yet another twist in the internal warfare within the Conservative party. It does the UK no credit and no service in the wider world. I fear the British government is heading towards the Brexit rocks.”
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
Should be plenty of ranting in the Evening Standard as Osborne's policies are overturned.
Things are looking critical for Theresa now. She needs to do something drastic. How about getting George Osborne back in the Cabinet, in the same way that Brown did with Mandelson? That would warm her to the huge juicy chunk of Remain supporters who are fearful of Jezza and also assuage the EU, who must think we've been taken over by nutters. Moreover, the bumbling Boris and pipsqueak Gove would be no match for Ozzy's dark arts. This makes an enormous amount of sense.
I think that would pretty much guarantee her overthrow, actually.
The oddest thing about Brexit to my mind is the total disconnect between the political risks, which would be huge even if we had a properly functional government with a good majority, and the complacency of business and the financial markets, both in the UK and in the EU27. Essentially, the markets seem to be priced on the basis that there will be a smooth agreement, no disruption to trade, and a continuance of the sound financial governance we have had since 2010.
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnel extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
Indeed Richard. The £ to the $ has regained all it's " Citizens of Nowhere " losses post the last Tory conference when markets who assumed there would be a deal thought there might not be. How much of that is markets assuming the Hung Parliament means a fudge. But what if the markets are wrong ( again ) ? Because the markets had to make two huge corrections after the referendum and then again after " Citizens of Nowhere ".
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
The oddest thing about Brexit to my mind is the total disconnect between the political risks, which would be huge even if we had a properly functional government with a good majority, and the complacency of business and the financial markets, both in the UK and in the EU27. Essentially, the markets seem to be priced on the basis that there will be a smooth agreement, no disruption to trade, and a continuance of the sound financial governance we have had since 2010.
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnell extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
I agree. We are watching a slow motion car crash but no-one quite believes it is happening.
May was safe as long as the negotiations with Yerp looked to have direction. Either a deal, or clearly no deal - either woild have kept her safe.
Instead we have delusion and fantasy - we can be out of the single market but create all the same conditions from the outside, can tell them they need us more than we need them, that we can walk from all EU directives and laws whilst freely trading into the EU.
We have two choices. Take the Norway route, rejoin EFTA and sign an existing deal, or be all the way out on day 1. There is no middle ground and that's abundantly clear now if it wasn't before. May has rejected both which risks ending up with latter at short notice with the catastrophic shock it would cause. So up steps Alex de Pfeffel to force the all put on day 1 option hopefully with some planning and a shit ton of cash thrown at HMRC to get them ready.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
As a member I do not want a ballot before Brexit.
If there was a leadership campaign in the Autumn I would wait to see the two candidates before deciding but I would have to be convinced on Boris, which I am not at present.
I would like to see younger newer faces and the old guard pass over the batton to the new
Things are looking critical for Theresa now. She needs to do something drastic. How about getting George Osborne back in the Cabinet, in the same way that Brown did with Mandelson? That would warm her to the huge juicy chunk of Remain supporters who are fearful of Jezza and also assuage the EU, who must think we've been taken over by nutters. Moreover, the bumbling Boris and pipsqueak Gove would be no match for Ozzy's dark arts. This makes an enormous amount of sense.
I've been thinking about just that actually. And you can resign peerages now as well so it would be no obstacle to Osborne returning to the Commons at a later date.
I suspect the issue will Osborne rightly feels his career is in better shape than Mandelson's at the time. Peter had resigned twice from the Cabinet. George is the Editor of an agenda setting newspaper and can return to the Committee be via a safe London seat any time he chooses.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
The failure and futility of the negotiations are what drives the need for a leadership contest. You don't change your negotiation team when they are making progress. But we are not, so it's the perfect time for a new man at the top and new political direction
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
The oddest thing about Brexit to my mind is the total disconnect between the political risks, which would be huge even if we had a properly functional government with a good majority, and the complacency of business and the financial markets, both in the UK and in the EU27. Essentially, the markets seem to be priced on the basis that there will be a smooth agreement, no disruption to trade, and a continuance of the sound financial governance we have had since 2010.
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnell extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
I think there's an element of 'doom fatigue'.
People might know there's a risk of things falling apart but they expect it will all be sorted out eventually and worrying about things now might lead to more work.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
Things are looking critical for Theresa now. She needs to do something drastic. How about getting George Osborne back in the Cabinet, in the same way that Brown did with Mandelson? That would warm her to the huge juicy chunk of Remain supporters who are fearful of Jezza and also assuage the EU, who must think we've been taken over by nutters. Moreover, the bumbling Boris and pipsqueak Gove would be no match for Ozzy's dark arts. This makes an enormous amount of sense.
I think that would pretty much guarantee her overthrow, actually.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
It absolutely is. Luckily, all those who caused it are completely shielded from the consequences of that. Phew!
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
PM Boris and Chancellor Gove would simply deliver the Brexit they campaigned for and 52% of the country voted for, out of the EU, out of the single market and customs union, ending free movement, lowering taxes and simplifying regulation and no vast payments to the EU with the money saved going to the NHS. If Corbyn and McDonnell want to campaign for higher taxes, more money to the EU rather than the NHS and continued uncontrolled free movement for years then let them
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
The failure and futility of the negotiations are what drives the need for a leadership contest. You don't change your negotiation team when they are making progress. But we are not, so it's the perfect time for a new man at the top and new political direction
Bit naughty - new man !!!! - could be another woman (the third to labour's nil)
Just to repeat from the previous thread since I have been at a wedding this evening.
Yellow submarine is an outright liar.
My position has always been completely uniform. If Britain left the EU but chose to immediately join EFTA then our membership of the EEA would be maintained. The fact that May has decided not to do that obviously means that we will almost certainly leave the EEA. But that does not change the basic position nor have I changed my position at all. If we move from the EU to EFTA which is my preferred result then we will remain members of the EEA.
Yellow submarine is being deliberately dishonest in claiming my position has ever been anything other than this. He is doing so because he got called making dishonest claims and was desperately looking for something to hit back with. Like most unreconciled Remainers he is fundamentally dishonest and falls back on lies when he had lost an argument. It is a shameful position but no more than.i have come to expect from him.
@Richard_Nabavi Thanks. Perhaps that's May's USP then ? That the alternative is just too awful at the particular moment ?
Absolutely. That's why there is substantial support in the party (especially amongst MPs) for her to stay in place until Brexit is done, formally at least.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
Reducing the loan rate very sensible and giving government grants only to top research universities sensible too alongside the reduced fees
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
PM Boris and Chancellor Gove would simply deliver the Brexit they campaigned for and 52% of the country voted for, out of the EU, out of the single market and customs union, ending free movement, lowering taxes and simplifying regulation and no vast payments to the EU with the money saved going to the NHS. If Corbyn and McDonnell want to campaign for higher taxes, more money to the EU rather than the NHS and continued uncontrolled free movement for years then let them
Yep, by delivering a Brexit that causes lasting, deep damage to the UK economy Boris and Gove would destroy the Tories and what remains of their reputations. But as a patriot I don't think it's worth it.
" PM Boris " ... A pound shop Frank Underwood destroying a second Prime Minister in 2 years so he can become PM without an election then implementing a policy that was rejected by the electorate in June 2017 dispute having no Commons majority. In doing so delivering an enormous economic shock for no reason other than to play rescuer.
This isn't an episode of House of Cards it's the Sceptred Isle. Conservative MPs need to do what they exist for and start acting conservatively.
Speaking to the Observer, the leader of the socialist bloc, Gianni Pittella, fumed: “Boris Johnson is embarrassing his country once again by repeating the lies of the Leave campaign. He is jeopardising the Brexit negotiations by threatening to turn the UK into a low-regulation economy. And he insults the intelligence of the British people with his tub-thumping jingoism. It is more in keeping with Trump Tower than Whitehall.”
The Italian MEP, echoing the thoughts of many in the European commission, added: “This appears to be yet another twist in the internal warfare within the Conservative party. It does the UK no credit and no service in the wider world. I fear the British government is heading towards the Brexit rocks.”
Oh good, great to hear from a socialist muppet (author of "A Brief History of the Future of the United States of Europe") from the most corrupt and racist nation in the developed world about what "does the UK no credit." From a nation which made Berlusconi PM four, I say again four, times. I haven't felt so reconciled to leaving for months.
So if BJ takes over no 10, Gove in 11, where does that leave Davis and the EU negotiations?
There won't be any. WTO .
If that became the position, then we really would see the immediate 'project fear' reaction that everyone thinks has been disproved, and with another year with the clock ticking...
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Degrees that only result in salaries of £12k-£16k aren't ripping off the students (who may never pay off a penny of their loan in their entire life) but the taxpayer who funds the initial loan that the University skims off.
There is too much hysteria about students graduating thousands of pounds in debt and not enough about the direct transfer of cash from the taxpayer to Universities which are then educating students poorly.
The oddest thing about Brexit to my mind is the total disconnect between the political risks, which would be huge even if we had a properly functional government with a good majority, and the complacency of business and the financial markets, both in the UK and in the EU27. Essentially, the markets seem to be priced on the basis that there will be a smooth agreement, no disruption to trade, and a continuance of the sound financial governance we have had since 2010.
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnell extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
With all the tumult of the last couple of years there has been a familiar theme - everyone, and especially mainstream politicians, assuming sense will prevail right up until the last moment and so failing to fully contemplate the full consequences of what happens if it doesn't. Perhaps, as we dodged the bullet on the financial crash - with leaders managing, just, to keep the show on the road and limiting its effects, at least in the UK and US, to a normal, if deep, downturn and a stunted recovery, we're much too complacent about what can happen if you let the nation's political id run riot.
An update on the aftermath of Hurricane Irma, for those who might be interested.
My power was only off for about 28 hours after Monday's storm, and most of the downed trees and power lines were cleared in my neighborhood by early Friday.
We went up to Dahlonega today. It's where the phrase "There's gold in them thar hills" originated. There are people there whose power only came back on today!
The power company linemen are being treated like rock stars. There are many reports of them going into restaurants to eat and them not being charged. It's been well reported how hard and long these guys have been working all week to get power restored.
I saw this at first hand today. Coming home we passed 3 Georgia Power bucket trucks going together up the road towards Dahlonega. Every car going in the opposite direction flashed its lights, hit the horn and waved out the window to them.
Before you ask - yes, I did.
Trump is getting rave reviews for his hands on handling of the two hurricanes and the speed with which the administration is responding. He's in his element
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
I'm not saying I understand the Corbyn surge. I absolutely don't understand the Corbyn surge. But does anyone sane on here think it was about " We're keen for May's Hard Brexit but we want it delivered by Boris instead " ?
In short I understand a Boris coup as tactics but not as strategy. Where do Tory Brexiteers think all this would be going ? What would a replacement for May who'd still have no majority actually do ?
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
That is a fair point, Big G.
I'm guilty of stereotyping too, but unfortunately the elderly/tech stereotype does have some basis in truth - and some of the consequences are pretty significant (and scary);
I'm not saying I understand the Corbyn surge. I absolutely don't understand the Corbyn surge. But does anyone sane on here think it was about " We're keen for May's Hard Brexit but we want it delivered by Boris instead " ?
In short I understand a Boris coup as tactics but not as strategy. Where do Tory Brexiteers think all this would be going ? What would a replacement for May who'd still have no majority actually do ?
The Corbyn surge was largely about the dementia tax and student fees, certainly not to pay vast sums to the EU which could go to the NHS and leave free movement uncontrolled
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
I bet you are losing your hair, have a touch of arthritis and are taking Phyllosan, which "fortifies the over fortys". :-)
Of course, that could be just wishful thinking on my part :-)
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
Speaking to the Observer, the leader of the socialist bloc, Gianni Pittella, fumed: “Boris Johnson is embarrassing his country once again by repeating the lies of the Leave campaign. He is jeopardising the Brexit negotiations by threatening to turn the UK into a low-regulation economy. And he insults the intelligence of the British people with his tub-thumping jingoism. It is more in keeping with Trump Tower than Whitehall.”
The Italian MEP, echoing the thoughts of many in the European commission, added: “This appears to be yet another twist in the internal warfare within the Conservative party. It does the UK no credit and no service in the wider world. I fear the British government is heading towards the Brexit rocks.”
Oh good, great to hear from a socialist muppet (author of "A Brief History of the Future of the United States of Europe") from the most corrupt and racist nation in the developed world about what "does the UK no credit." From a nation which made Berlusconi PM four, I say again four, times. I haven't felt so reconciled to leaving for months.
Silvio could be back as Kingmaker in Italy next year too
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
The Treaty of Rome, the precursor to your beloved EU, dates from 1957. So who's living in the 1950s?
An update on the aftermath of Hurricane Irma, for those who might be interested.
My power was only off for about 28 hours after Monday's storm, and most of the downed trees and power lines were cleared in my neighborhood by early Friday.
We went up to Dahlonega today. It's where the phrase "There's gold in them thar hills" originated. There are people there whose power only came back on today!
The power company linemen are being treated like rock stars. There are many reports of them going into restaurants to eat and them not being charged. It's been well reported how hard and long these guys have been working all week to get power restored.
I saw this at first hand today. Coming home we passed 3 Georgia Power bucket trucks going together up the road towards Dahlonega. Every car going in the opposite direction flashed its lights, hit the horn and waved out the window to them.
Before you ask - yes, I did.
Trump is getting rave reviews for his hands on handling of the two hurricanes and the speed with which the administration is responding. He's in his element
My Californian cousin's husband worked for PG&E. He often made a goodly proportion of his basic salary after winter storms - but then he was away from home for weeks at a time.
I'm not saying I understand the Corbyn surge. I absolutely don't understand the Corbyn surge. But does anyone sane on here think it was about " We're keen for May's Hard Brexit but we want it delivered by Boris instead " ?
In short I understand a Boris coup as tactics but not as strategy. Where do Tory Brexiteers think all this would be going ? What would a replacement for May who'd still have no majority actually do ?
Do not think this move by Boris is supported by the MP's or members. Indeed he may have harmed his chances as reports that both the remain and leave MP's are equally annoyed
A lot in the newspapers is hype and when you read Boris's statement and the articles he is not saying much that is not known already. He does support TM and will accept a transition period with legitimate payments.
We are all in the bubble on here but some who voters who want out will no doubt be pleased with Boris and many are labour supporters
Greetings from San Francisco! I'm here to drum up business for Brexit Britain with an event we're hosting on Wednesday.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
PM Boris and Chancellor Gove would simply deliver the Brexit they campaigned for and 52% of the country voted for, out of the EU, out of the single market and customs union, ending free movement, lowering taxes and simplifying regulation and no vast payments to the EU with the money saved going to the NHS. If Corbyn and McDonnell want to campaign for higher taxes, more money to the EU rather than the NHS and continued uncontrolled free movement for years then let them
Yep, by delivering a Brexit that causes lasting, deep damage to the UK economy Boris and Gove would destroy the Tories and what remains of their reputations. But as a patriot I don't think it's worth it.
We were told the economy would be devastated within months of Brexit and it has not happened even after businesses were told we were leaving the single market months ago
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
The Treaty of Rome, the precursor to your beloved EU, dates from 1957. So who's living in the 1950s?
Indeed and we joined EFTA in 1960 and did not leave it for the EEC until 1973
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
I bet you are losing your hair, have a touch of arthritis and are taking Phyllosan, which "fortifies the over fortys". :-)
Of course, that could be just wishful thinking on my part :-)
Hair loss started at 45, have had arthritis since my mid 30's and it is getting worse but I have never taken Phyllosan.
Mind you I had an uncle who was terminal with cancer and in his last days when asked 'How are you' - he replied with the never to be forgotten words 'Why should a breathing man complain ' (bless him)
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
AIUI, decent CompSci graduates are getting great starting salaries right now.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
The Treaty of Rome, the precursor to your beloved EU, dates from 1957. So who's living in the 1950s?
Amended many times since to keep up with the changing times as you know Sunil
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
The Treaty of Rome, the precursor to your beloved EU, dates from 1957. So who's living in the 1950s?
Amended many times since to keep up with the changing times as you know Sunil
The problem is it is not keeping up with changing times
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
So you really think a junior doctor earns £45k within 6 months of qualifying. What planet are these people on.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
So you really think a junior doctor earns £45k within 6 months of qualifying. What planet are these people on.
Maybe not junior doctors but the article did quote £45,000 after 6 months
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
So you really think a junior doctor earns £45k within 6 months of qualifying. What planet are these people on.
Maybe not junior doctors but the article did quote £45,000 after 6 months
Solicitors with the big 5 and Chartered Accountants with the larger firms [ after qualifying ] could earn that kind of money.
Serious non rhetorical question for our Tory peeps. Could there really be a members postal ballot and campaign over an Autumn to select a new PM ? How would that play with ongoing Brexit negotiations ?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
I believe that, after the GE2017 election, that questions was investigated and the answer was, IIRC, that it would take at least 11 weeks to hold a full leadership contest. The exact timetable is entirely at the discretion of the 1922 committee, but obviously there are practical constraints.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
In this day and age, why?
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
I am 73 and do not live in the 1950's
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
Yes you do, you support Brexit. No policy more designed to drag us back to the 1950s.
The Treaty of Rome, the precursor to your beloved EU, dates from 1957. So who's living in the 1950s?
Amended many times since to keep up with the changing times as you know Sunil
But the original idea of EU integration dates from the 1950s.
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
So you really think a junior doctor earns £45k within 6 months of qualifying. What planet are these people on.
Certainly around £35 000, medicine has the highest graduate earnings premium. City law firms certainly pay that much for their neely qualifieds and investment bankers for their recent graduates
If Hammond cuts tuition fees from £9k to 4K, risk is that it makes Corbyn plan look more affordable.
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
The proposals are to reduce fees to £7,500 with a government grant of £1,500 for the top universities. Also to reduce the loan rate and increase the starting figure from £21,000 to £25,000
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
£3k is about the highest defensible level. Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The point in the Times article is the concern that some degrees are proving near worthless with students starting on £12,000 - £16,000 salaries will the top universities graduates average £45,000 wthin 6 months.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
Those figures for top universities must be wrong. Very few graduate jobs pay £45 k within 6 months.
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
Economics and medicine and engineering and some law graduates from the Russell Group could ve on that but not many more agreed
AIUI, decent CompSci graduates are getting great starting salaries right now.
Yes you can add IT graduates and consultants too, especially at firms like Google and Apple
Citizens of seven European countries were asked what they believe the next German government’s priorities should be. The most striking difference was on the subject of EU reform. Just 13 percent of Germans listed it among their top priorities, compared to 26 percent of the French and 27 percent of Brits – even though Britain is bound to exit the European Union (see graphic).
If the proposals re fees are really what @Big_G_NorthWales is saying, then I can't see that cutting much ice with students at all. All this does is cede further ground to Labour on this issue.
Meanwhile, looking at events this weekend, I'm more and more convinced that whenever the next GE is, it won't be won by the Tories. They are so bad that I honestly wouldn't rule out voting Corbyn in 2019/2020/2021/2022 (whenever the next GE is).
May will probably still be PM in two years time. The political chattering class love to work themselves up into a frenzy on a Sunday morning. On a practical note, the Tories should abolish tuition fees altogether, cutting Labour's ground from beneath it. Voters are not going to accept a cut in fees when the Opposition is offering to abolish them altogether.
May will probably still be PM in two years time. The political chattering class love to work themselves up into a frenzy on a Sunday morning. On a practical note, the Tories should abolish tuition fees altogether, cutting Labour's ground from beneath it. Voters are not going to accept a cut in fees when the Opposition is offering to abolish them altogether.
No. That would mean raising taxes on skilled working class C2 voters who voted Tory last time and are mainly non graduates to pay off the fees of lower middle class C1s who voted Labour last time and more likely to be graduates. Political suicide.
Far better is to link fees to post graduate earnings, with degrees which lead to higher earnings paying more and the reverse as suggested Hammond may do on the Sunday Politics
If the proposals re fees are really what @Big_G_NorthWales is saying, then I can't see that cutting much ice with students at all. All this does is cede further ground to Labour on this issue.
Meanwhile, looking at events this weekend, I'm more and more convinced that whenever the next GE is, it won't be won by the Tories. They are so bad that I honestly wouldn't rule out voting Corbyn in 2019/2020/2021/2022 (whenever the next GE is).
May will probably still be PM in two years time. The political chattering class love to work themselves up into a frenzy on a Sunday morning. On a practical note, the Tories should abolish tuition fees altogether, cutting Labour's ground from beneath it. Voters are not going to accept a cut in fees when the Opposition is offering to abolish them altogether.
No. That would mean raising taxes on skilled working class C2 voters who voted Tory last time and are mainly non graduates to pay off the fees of lower middle class C1s who voted Labour last time and more likely to be graduates. Political suicide.
Far better is to link fees to post graduate earnings, with degrees which lead to higher earnings paying more and the reverse as suggested Hammond may do on the Sunday Politics
Corbyn claims that he can abolish tuition fees without putting up taxes -he says that it can be paid for by putting up corporation tax. This has not yet been refuted. The Tories need to understand two things 1). Not a single member of the current cabinet will beat Corbyn in an election 2). Tuition fees have to go -at least for those whose degrees lead them to socially useful jobs like teachers/doctors etc.
If the proposals re fees are really what @Big_G_NorthWales is saying, then I can't see that cutting much ice with students at all. All this does is cede further ground to Labour on this issue.
Meanwhile, looking at events this weekend, I'm more and more convinced that whenever the next GE is, it won't be won by the Tories. They are so bad that I honestly wouldn't rule out voting Corbyn in 2019/2020/2021/2022 (whenever the next GE is).
Given you never vote Tory hardly a surprise!
I'm a Labour supporter but a staunch opponent of Corbyn. I believe that a Corbyn government would destroy the Labour party and toxify Labour for a generation. A Labour defeat at the next general election would save the Labour party from that fate. The Tories might not be able to win the next election -although the belief that Corbyn will might well be the self denying prophecy that predicted Labour wins often are -but neither can Labour win an outright majority. A hung parliament with a minority Labour government at the mercy of the Liberals and other parties will frustrate Corbynista dreams of a hard left Jerusalem, anger a lot of people who will be disappointed by his broken promises in office, while at the same time annoying a lot of moderate voters and paving the way for a Tory landslide.
Comments
ie Response will be "If you can suddenly find the money to cut fees that much then it's not that much more of a stretch to abolish them completely".
But politically probably still better for Con than doing nothing.
If I did not love my country I'd love Boris and Gove in 10 and 11 Downing Street taking absolutely all the flack for the disastrous Brexit they would undoubtedly deliver. But as a patriot I look at what is happening in total despair. What a shambolic shower of self-absorbed incompetents the Tories have assembled to rule over us. We are going to end up paying a heavy price for their vanity, pride and complete stupidity.
What they won't say is that Corbyn has holed this ship under the water line.
Additionally to require value for money and address excessive salaries and perks at the top
I find this absolutely baffling. After all, there is a substantial risk of a crash-out Brexit followed by a Corbyn-McDonnell extreme hard-left government.
Why would anyone want to risk investing in the UK in these circumstances?
And if that's not credible how would Tory members feel about a second coronation in short succession ?
Genuine questions to paid up Tory members.
£3k is about the highest defensible level.
Reducing it to £7.5k is peanuts. It won't make any difference to your debt servitude if you are a graduate earning mid £20k per annum.
The Italian MEP, echoing the thoughts of many in the European commission, added: “This appears to be yet another twist in the internal warfare within the Conservative party. It does the UK no credit and no service in the wider world. I fear the British government is heading towards the Brexit rocks.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/16/european-union-frustration-britain-heading-for-brexit-rocks
What are Patel and Gove supporting? Boris saying Brexit means Brexit, albeit in slightly different words? Non story.
How would that play with existing Brexit negotiations? Disastrously.
However, I don't think another coronation is credible. There is no outstanding consensus candidate, and worse still it's not just a question of personalities, there is a genuine split on policy. So I can't see MPs, let alone the wider party, coalescing quickly around one candidate.
In other words, it's a disaster.
Instead we have delusion and fantasy - we can be out of the single market but create all the same conditions from the outside, can tell them they need us more than we need them, that we can walk from all EU directives and laws whilst freely trading into the EU.
We have two choices. Take the Norway route, rejoin EFTA and sign an existing deal, or be all the way out on day 1. There is no middle ground and that's abundantly clear now if it wasn't before. May has rejected both which risks ending up with latter at short notice with the catastrophic shock it would cause. So up steps Alex de Pfeffel to force the all put on day 1 option hopefully with some planning and a shit ton of cash thrown at HMRC to get them ready.
If there was a leadership campaign in the Autumn I would wait to see the two candidates before deciding but I would have to be convinced on Boris, which I am not at present.
I would like to see younger newer faces and the old guard pass over the batton to the new
I suspect the issue will Osborne rightly feels his career is in better shape than Mandelson's at the time. Peter had resigned twice from the Cabinet. George is the Editor of an agenda setting newspaper and can return to the Committee be via a safe London seat any time he chooses.
Some of these so called Universities should be turned into FE colleges
People might know there's a risk of things falling apart but they expect it will all be sorted out eventually and worrying about things now might lead to more work.
Likewise with North Korea.
Online hustings - several over the course of a week. Electronic voting the following weekend. All done and dusted in 10 days.
Oops I forgot your average Tory member is 72 and that's why we're all being dragged kicking and screaming back to the 1950s.
Yellow submarine is an outright liar.
My position has always been completely uniform. If Britain left the EU but chose to immediately join EFTA then our membership of the EEA would be maintained. The fact that May has decided not to do that obviously means that we will almost certainly leave the EEA. But that does not change the basic position nor have I changed my position at all. If we move from the EU to EFTA which is my preferred result then we will remain members of the EEA.
Yellow submarine is being deliberately dishonest in claiming my position has ever been anything other than this. He is doing so because he got called making dishonest claims and was desperately looking for something to hit back with. Like most unreconciled Remainers he is fundamentally dishonest and falls back on lies when he had lost an argument. It is a shameful position but no more than.i have come to expect from him.
I have adopted modern tech with S8+phone, two notebooks, desk top pc, and Sky Q.
My wife is 78 and has her own smartphone, apple i pad, and is active on social media
You should not stereotype us oldies
This isn't an episode of House of Cards it's the Sceptred Isle. Conservative MPs need to do what they exist for and start acting conservatively.
There is too much hysteria about students graduating thousands of pounds in debt and not enough about the direct transfer of cash from the taxpayer to Universities which are then educating students poorly.
My power was only off for about 28 hours after Monday's storm, and most of the downed trees and power lines were cleared in my neighborhood by early Friday.
We went up to Dahlonega today. It's where the phrase "There's gold in them thar hills" originated. There are people there whose power only came back on today!
The power company linemen are being treated like rock stars. There are many reports of them going into restaurants to eat and them not being charged. It's been well reported how hard and long these guys have been working all week to get power restored.
I saw this at first hand today. Coming home we passed 3 Georgia Power bucket trucks going together up the road towards Dahlonega. Every car going in the opposite direction flashed its lights, hit the horn and waved out the window to them.
Before you ask - yes, I did.
Trump is getting rave reviews for his hands on handling of the two hurricanes and the speed with which the administration is responding. He's in his element
Looking at the average salary figures, many graduates struggle to hit £30k in their careers. This is even true if you go to a top university. Most jobs just don't pay that kind of money. Particualrly in the public sector, with the pay freeze. There are some sectors that are an exception.
In short I understand a Boris coup as tactics but not as strategy. Where do Tory Brexiteers think all this would be going ? What would a replacement for May who'd still have no majority actually do ?
I'm guilty of stereotyping too, but unfortunately the elderly/tech stereotype does have some basis in truth - and some of the consequences are pretty significant (and scary);
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2017/sep/16/elderly-national-wealthcare-service-help-banking
Of course, that could be just wishful thinking on my part :-)
A lot in the newspapers is hype and when you read Boris's statement and the articles he is not saying much that is not known already. He does support TM and will accept a transition period with legitimate payments.
We are all in the bubble on here but some who voters who want out will no doubt be pleased with Boris and many are labour supporters
Mind you I had an uncle who was terminal with cancer and in his last days when asked 'How are you' - he replied with the never to be forgotten words 'Why should a breathing man complain ' (bless him)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4482588/chancellor-set-to-slash-tuition-fees-by-5000-amid-fury-over-uni-cash-mountain/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/sep/17/chickens-coming-home-to-roost-for-theresa-may-cartoon#img-1
Armed officers stormed the property hours after arresting the 18-year-old man believed to have planted the Parsons Green bomb in Dover.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Citizens of seven European countries were asked what they believe the next German government’s priorities should be. The most striking difference was on the subject of EU reform. Just 13 percent of Germans listed it among their top priorities, compared to 26 percent of the French and 27 percent of Brits – even though Britain is bound to exit the European Union (see graphic).
https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/dont-talk-about-europe-826401
Meanwhile, looking at events this weekend, I'm more and more convinced that whenever the next GE is, it won't be won by the Tories. They are so bad that I honestly wouldn't rule out voting Corbyn in 2019/2020/2021/2022 (whenever the next GE is).
Far better is to link fees to post graduate earnings, with degrees which lead to higher earnings paying more and the reverse as suggested Hammond may do on the Sunday Politics
The Tories might not be able to win the next election -although the belief that Corbyn will might well be the self denying prophecy that predicted Labour wins often are -but neither can Labour win an outright majority. A hung parliament with a minority Labour government at the mercy of the Liberals and other parties will frustrate Corbynista dreams of a hard left Jerusalem, anger a lot of people who will be disappointed by his broken promises in office, while at the same time annoying a lot of moderate voters and paving the way for a Tory landslide.