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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is either bye bye Boris or bye bye Theresa, or bye bye both

SystemSystem Posts: 12,259
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is either bye bye Boris or bye bye Theresa, or bye bye both of them

Boris Johnson lays out his own, radical vision for Brexit. Impossible not to see it as a challenge to Theresa May https://t.co/XDVQZBkRpT

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,271
    First
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433
    Second like... Theresa May? :open_mouth:
  • Spare a thought for

    1) David Herdson who is probably putting the finishing touches to his morning thread and Boris has meant that ends up on the cutting room floor

    2) Me, tonight is date night.

    3) Mike will never be allowed to go on a foreign holiday again.
  • I wanted a quiet weekend.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433



    3) Mike will never be allowed to go on a foreign holiday again.

    We all knew Mike's holiday was a Omen... :D
  • Alistair said:

    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.

    Why
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    edited September 2017
    If and when May goes Boris almost certainly succeeds her now, especially now the Telegraph, the house journal of the Tory membership, is fully on board team Johnson
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433
    Theresa's a loser.

    She did her duty hanging in there to shore up the country after her election meltdown but time for her and Philip to retire to the Shires now methinks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    It is understood that the Foreign Secretary wished to make a speech about Brexit but has not had the opportunity. Whitehall sources suggested that the Prime Minister and Chancellor were unaware of Mr Johnson's article.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/15/exclusive-boris-johnson-yes-will-take-back-350m-eu-nhs/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,399
    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.
  • The Telegraph comes off the fence, having decided that May is finished and goes 100% in favour of Boris.

    See now, what were those odds against LaMay seeing out 2017 as PM?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.

    Why
    Everything is good for yes.

    In this case Boris is about as popular north of the border as a Johnson slapped in your face.
  • FF43 said:

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    That may not be the only thing he brings down...
  • Given the potential for nuclear war starting in North Korea, if the worst that happens on Mike's holiday is a damp squib terror attack and a leadership challenge then it seems rather calm.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2017

    The Telegraph comes off the fence, having decided that May is finished and goes 100% in favour of Boris.

    See now, what were those odds against LaMay seeing out 2017 as PM?

    I await smoke signals from the daily Dacre.....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    FF43 said:

    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    It is a circus, so bring on the clowns.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    'Under Mr Johnson’s blueprint for Brexit, leaving the EU must “logically entail” leaving the single market, the customs union and the European Court of Justice.
    He says Britain will “keep environmental and social protections that are fair and wise”, but will ditch EU regulations that he says cost anything between 4 and 7 per cent of GDP.
    Treading heavily on Mr Hammond’s toes, Mr Johnson says: “We should seize the opportunity of Brexit to reform our tax system,” pointing out that the Bank of England’s chief economist said in 2015 that the system is “skewed” and discourages investment.
    ...He also accuses Jeremy Corbyn of “chickening out” of Brexit with his party’s preference for remaining in the single market and customs union, or nearest equivalent.
    “He would make a complete mockery of Brexit,” he writes, “and turn an opportunity into a national humiliation.”

    Also suggestions Boris wants to reform planning laws and tax foreign buyers of UK property
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/15/exclusive-boris-johnson-yes-will-take-back-350m-eu-nhs/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,214
    The thing is that hanging tough is exactly what the membership will want. Doesn't mean it is right for the country but it is spot on politics. People still think Boris is blundering. I really don't understand how people can come to the conclusion. He knows exactly where the jugular is.
  • Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073
  • FF43 said:

    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    It is a circus, so bring on the clowns.
    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    Clearly he is also not willing to pay to access the single market and will instead use the money saved to invest in the NHS
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,439
    FF43 said:

    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    His window is closing and the higher his profile the lazier and less attractive he appears. For the moment however he has enough cache to see off Corbyn quite easily in the event of an election.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073


    Nah, they'd just switch to Diana's Son...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,831
    edited September 2017
    Boris's article isn't very impressive and he doesn't seem to have learnt a thing about the realities of Brexit since the referendum.

    He doesn't even get the gender of 'patrie' right, so his claim to be a man of letters also takes a knock.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,399

    The Telegraph comes off the fence, having decided that May is finished and goes 100% in favour of Boris.

    See now, what were those odds against LaMay seeing out 2017 as PM?

    Hmm. The Telegraph did push Ian Duncan Smith very hard. Maybe. I just think the Conservative Party has too great a sense of self preservation and that there is a residual "sensible party" element. Despite Brexit.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073


    Nah, they'd just switch to Diana's Son...
    Prince Harry?

    I'd be okay with a ginger monarch.
  • If only Boris were as good at being a minister as he is at writing articles... Some thoughts:

    - It's a superb piece by any standard, even if the only concrete example of the benefit of 'taking back control' is that we'll be able to introduce an anomaly into VAT regulations.

    - Yes of course it's a leadership bid.

    - He just about manages to avoid contradicting stated UK government policy. He doesn't quite say that we shouldn't pay anything for a transitional period, although he comes achingly close to it. His exact words are:

    We would not expect to pay for access to their markets any more than they would expect to pay for access to ours.

    And yes – once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week.
    [emphasis mine]

    - Theresa May won't dare sack him for this. He's carefully crafted it so as not to leave her, in her already very weak position, with any sufficiently strong reason.

    - The fact that it is so carefully crafted is a key point; this is not Boris being careless with his words, as he so often is.

    - He has clearly decided that wrecking the negotiations is a price worth paying to further his career.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    FF43 said:

    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    It is a circus, so bring on the clowns.
    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott
    I do hope so!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433

    GIN1138 said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073


    Nah, they'd just switch to Diana's Son...
    Prince Harry?

    I'd be okay with a ginger monarch.
    The other one.

    *tut*
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    Just a thought, but isn't Boris supposed to be overseeing and co ordinating aid to the Carribbean, among other things, rather than overseeing a 4000 word leadership bid and co ordinating his allies at the Telegraph?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

  • Boris's article isn't very impressive and he doesn't seem to have learnt a thing about the realities of Brexit since the referendum.

    He doesn't even get the gender of 'patrie' right, so his claim to be a man of letters also takes a knock.

    Boris would never impress you William but Brexit will happen
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433

    If only Boris were as good at being a minister as he is at writing articles... Some thoughts:

    - It's a superb piece by any standard, even if the only concrete example of the benefit of 'taking back control' is that we'll be able to introduce an anomaly into VAT regulations.

    - Yes of course it's a leadership bid.

    - He just about manages to avoid contradicting stated UK government policy. He doesn't quite say that we shouldn't pay anything for a transitional period, although he comes achingly close to it. His exact words are:

    We would not expect to pay for access to their markets any more than they would expect to pay for access to ours.

    And yes – once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week.
    [emphasis mine]

    - Theresa May won't dare sack him for this. He's carefully crafted it so as not to leave her, in her already very weak position, with any sufficiently strong reason.

    - The fact that it is so carefully crafted is a key point; this is not Boris being careless with his words, as he so often is.

    - He has clearly decided that wrecking the negotiations is a price worth paying to further his career.

    Time for Theresa to retire I think Richard...
  • - He has clearly decided that wrecking the negotiations is a price worth paying to further his career.

    First people said he backed Brexit and Vote Leave to further his career.

    Then people say that he wants to wreck the negotiations by insisting on Vote Leave's claims to further his career.

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    htps://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    You can see the thinking here: Charles desperately needs to have his feet already under the table, with HM's apparent blessing, well before HM shuffles off this mortal coil in the hope that dislodging him from a Regency or whatever will look more of a challenge than not letting him anywhere near the Iron Throne in the first place.
  • HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    Don't you know history.

    To get rid of a monarch, you get rid of their Praetorian Guard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639

    HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    Don't you know history.

    To get rid of a monarch, you get rid of their Praetorian Guard.
    The monarch's modern Praetorian Guard is their poll rating, they are in effect elected in all but name now, that is why the Queen is safe for as long as she wants to stay on and is still breathing but Charles and Camilla are at real risk from a Kate coup unless they lift their popularity
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    Time for Theresa to retire I think Richard...

    No, that was immediately after the election.

    Just think of the optics of her going (voluntarily or otherwise) now, in terms of the negotiations - and, even worse, Boris (who is absolutely detested in Europe) taking over.

    Just make sure any investments you've got are crash-out- and Corbyn-proof, because the probability of both has just doubled.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433
    HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    The Royals are quite a strange family aren't they? :D
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    Don't you know history.

    To get rid of a monarch, you get rid of their Praetorian Guard.
    Charles and Camilla are at real risk from a Kate coup unless they lift their popularity
    Good luck with that... ;)
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited September 2017

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    Would the union survive the abolition of the monarchy? I would argue that Northern Ireland's union to Great Britain depends on two things: that Scotland remains part of that union and that there is a monarchy. Take either away and the philosophical underpinning of NI's place in the union disappears.
  • The Telegraph comes off the fence, having decided that May is finished and goes 100% in favour of Boris.

    See now, what were those odds against LaMay seeing out 2017 as PM?

    Answering my own question, Laddies/Corals go 6/1 ..... I've topped up!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433

    GIN1138 said:

    Time for Theresa to retire I think Richard...

    No, that was immediately after the election.

    Just think of the optics of her going (voluntarily or otherwise) now, in terms of the negotiations - and, even worse, Boris (who is absolutely detested in Europe) taking over.

    Just make sure any investments you've got are crash-out and Corbyn-proof, because the probability of both has just doubled.
    The Day Corbyn rides into Downing St. I'm putting all my money under the floorboards. :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639

    If only Boris were as good at being a minister as he is at writing articles... Some thoughts:

    - It's a superb piece by any standard, even if the only concrete example of the benefit of 'taking back control' is that we'll be able to introduce an anomaly into VAT regulations.

    - Yes of course it's a leadership bid.

    - He just about manages to avoid contradicting stated UK government policy. He doesn't quite say that we shouldn't pay anything for a transitional period, although he comes achingly close to it. His exact words are:

    We would not expect to pay for access to their markets any more than they would expect to pay for access to ours.

    And yes – once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week.
    [emphasis mine]

    - Theresa May won't dare sack him for this. He's carefully crafted it so as not to leave her, in her already very weak position, with any sufficiently strong reason.

    - The fact that it is so carefully crafted is a key point; this is not Boris being careless with his words, as he so often is.

    - He has clearly decided that wrecking the negotiations is a price worth paying to further his career.

    He has set himself up to be the first PM of a 'Brexit means Brexit' UK, he has no interest in negotiations which lead to any form of Leave in name only
  • I'd assumed the Boris stuff was just a liberal Remainer fantasy. Is he really going to bring down another Conservative PM by relitigating the Referendum via Soft via Hard Brexit ? And if he succeeds is he really going to deliver a WTO Brexit and serve as PM for nearly 5 years on the basis of May's lost majority and subsequent DUP deal ? And if not are we really going to have another General Election in 2018 to deliver him a mandate for that ? And if we did how do know his poll numbers wouldn't be as ephemeral as May's ? And so on and so on. The Conservative Party is discovering that Brexit is like hard drive. You have to take escalating amounts of it to get the same high. Untill your body and mind collapse under the strain.

    More likely he's playing to the gallery for a 2019 leadership election after May has carried the can for the inevitable Brexit climb down. But it's incredibly dangerous stuff which could get out of control.

    I never, ever thought I would say it but thank God for the Corbyn surge. God alone knows what this shower would have been like with a majority. The prospect of 5years of the ghastly McDonell/Corbyn being less damaging than a Tory government should be absurd but it appears to be where we are. Buckle up.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    That is fundamental to the concept of a hereditary monarchy. It is a genetic lottery with no swapsies. William has to wait his turn.

    If the hereditary principle is discarded, the credibility of the monarchy goes too. If only popular figures can hold the post then why not have an election to decide Head of State?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639

    I'd assumed the Boris stuff was just a liberal Remainer fantasy. Is he really going to bring down another Conservative PM by relitigating the Referendum via Soft via Hard Brexit ? And if he succeeds is he really going to deliver a WTO Brexit and serve as PM for nearly 5 years on the basis of May's lost majority and subsequent DUP deal ? And if not are we really going to have another General Election in 2018 to deliver him a mandate for that ? And if we did how do know his poll numbers wouldn't be as ephemeral as May's ? And so on and so on. The Conservative Party is discovering that Brexit is like hard drive. You have to take escalating amounts of it to get the same high. Untill your body and mind collapse under the strain.

    More likely he's playing to the gallery for a 2019 leadership election after May has carried the can for the inevitable Brexit climb down. But it's incredibly dangerous stuff which could get out of control.

    I never, ever thought I would say it but thank God for the Corbyn surge. God alone knows what this shower would have been like with a majority. The prospect of 5years of the ghastly McDonell/Corbyn being less damaging than a Tory government should be absurd but it appears to be where we are. Buckle up.

    Boris only needs 8 seats for a majority, perfectly possible in a general election before the end of 2020
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited September 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    Don't you know history.

    To get rid of a monarch, you get rid of their Praetorian Guard.
    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition gets rid of the Praetorian Guard: to get rid of an emperor you had to be the Praetorian Guard. Gibbon mentions a theory while discussing I think Gordian III and Phil the Arab that the Empire is best regarded as a republic in which only members of the Praetorian Guard had the right to vote. So being Emperor effectively meant being on a never ending election campaign.

    Edit: spooky thought - someone born at the same time as the strike tag was deprecated in HTML 4.01, is now old enough to vote.
  • I never, ever thought I would say it but thank God for the Corbyn surge. God alone knows what this shower would have been like with a majority. The prospect of 5years of the ghastly McDonell/Corbyn being less damaging than a Tory government should be absurd but it appears to be where we are. Buckle up.

    What a bizarre comment. If Theresa May had a majority (especially an increased majority), she'd be impregnable and would be able to flick Boris away. It is precisely the fact that we have a hung parliament which has massively increased the risks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    edited September 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hurrah, Charles is trying to usurp Her Majesty.

    The Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, here we come.

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/908788005565059073

    Removing an aide is hardly the same as removing the Queen herself and in any case it has long been known the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge do not get on and so the stage would be set for Kate to manipulate William into forcing Charles abdication if he ever took the throne and made a Republic a possibility, exactly as foretold in Charles IIIrd
    https://www.inquisitr.com/1498029/pregnant-kate-middleton-bans-camilla-parker-bowles-from-family-gets-revenge/

    The Royals are quite a strange family aren't they? :D
    It is still all jostling for the throne just more Dallas than the Hollow Crown now
  • I never, ever thought I would say it but thank God for the Corbyn surge. God alone knows what this shower would have been like with a majority. The prospect of 5years of the ghastly McDonell/Corbyn being less damaging than a Tory government should be absurd but it appears to be where we are. Buckle up.

    What a bizarre comment. If Theresa May had a majority (especially an increased majority), she'd be impregnable and would be able to flick Boris away. It is precisely the fact that we have a hung parliament which has massively increased the risks.
    She brought this on herself. Nobody, nobody forced her to hold an early election.
  • She brought this on herself. Nobody, nobody forced her to hold an early election.

    True enough. But who cares about her?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    edited September 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    Time for Theresa to retire I think Richard...

    No, that was immediately after the election.

    Just think of the optics of her going (voluntarily or otherwise) now, in terms of the negotiations - and, even worse, Boris (who is absolutely detested in Europe) taking over.

    Just make sure any investments you've got are crash-out- and Corbyn-proof, because the probability of both has just doubled.
    Given a general election choice of vote Boris and get millions for the NHS and no free movement or vote Corbyn and get millions for the EU and continued unlimited immigration I would suggest Jezza would end up hoist by his own populist petard, it would be hard not to laugh!

    Though I accept if Labour then get someone more moderate like Chuka Umunna to then take over as leader after a Boris victory it would likely swiftly be downhill for BJ from there
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    FF43 said:

    I believe this coup attempt will fail. I think most people believe Brexit has to be implemented and that requires leadership, hard work and difficult decisions to be taken and the country to be brought on board with those decisions. To the extent Mrs May lacks that leadership, Boris is obviously not the solution. There's an air of desperation as Mr Johnson realises the prize of PM is slipping out of his fingers.

    Having said that he might very well bring down Theresa May with him.

    His window is closing and the higher his profile the lazier and less attractive he appears. For the moment however he has enough cache to see off Corbyn quite easily in the event of an election.
    Not sure about this. Can easily see a scenario where it's backstabbing cad-and-bounder vs humble, honest man of the people. Competence is what you need to fend off Corbyn, not charisma.

    Put it another way - is an absolute chancer really what you want to vote for in a time of uncertainty? Corbyn would only have to stick to his half in, half out cake and eat it position to look (superficially) like the safe choice.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
  • She brought this on herself. Nobody, nobody forced her to hold an early election.

    True enough. But who cares about her?
    The Labour party, every day she stays in power, the chances of Corbyn becoming First Lord of The Treasury increases.
  • Alistair said:

    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.

    Boris's ego is going to blow up the UK.
  • HYUFD said:

    Given a general election choice of vote Boris and get millions for the NHS and no free movement or vote Corbyn and get millions for the EU and continued unlimited immigration I would suggest Jezza would end up hoist by his own populist petard, it would be hard not to laugh!

    Though I accept with Labour then get someone more moderate like Chuka Umunna to then take over as leader after a Boris victory it would likely swiftly be downhill for BJ from there

    You are omitting to notice the elephant in the room, which is that we've got a humongously difficult negotiation with an incredibly tight deadline to get through.
  • Scott_P said:

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
    Indeed.

    The reverse ferret of some PBers will be a sight to behold.
  • The Labour party, every day she stays in power, the chances of Corbyn becoming First Lord of The Treasury increases.

    Possibly, although I'm unconvinced about that. It's equally possible that (if set up properly by a skilled operator, say someone educated at St Paul's), she could draw the poison and a new leader could draw a line under this unhappy episode.
  • Well, I think we can safely say that the Conservative Party Conference will be quite interesting this year.
  • George Osborne had the fantasy. but Boris might be delivering the reality of putting Mrs May in a political freezer.
  • May is not going to sack Johnson. She's too weak. Paradoxically, this also means that she denies him the chance to play martyr.

    Would he have any support for a leadership bid? Are the Tories as crazy as that?
  • The Labour party, every day she stays in power, the chances of Corbyn becoming First Lord of The Treasury increases.

    Possibly, although I'm unconvinced about that. It's equally possible that (if set up properly by a skilled operator, say someone educated at St Paul's), she could draw the poison and a new leader could draw a line under this unhappy episode.
    If she had any sense, she'd ennoble an alumnus of St Paul's as Deputy PM and be her Willie Whitelaw.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    edited September 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Given a general election choice of vote Boris and get millions for the NHS and no free movement or vote Corbyn and get millions for the EU and continued unlimited immigration I would suggest Jezza would end up hoist by his own populist petard, it would be hard not to laugh!

    Though I accept with Labour then get someone more moderate like Chuka Umunna to then take over as leader after a Boris victory it would likely swiftly be downhill for BJ from there

    You are omitting to notice the elephant in the room, which is that we've got a humongously difficult negotiation with an incredibly tight deadline to get through.
    Not if Boris takes over before the negotiations are completed and cancels them beyond settlement rights for EU and UK citizens on the basis that he is not going to pay hundreds of millions to the EU and then calls and wins a snap general election.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Can I highly recommend the dodgy haircuts and worse choreography of Glam rock at the BBC on 4 at the moment?

    Its splendid stuff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,960

    Scott_P said:

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
    Indeed.

    The reverse ferret of some PBers will be a sight to behold.
    A certain flexibility is presumably required of anyone who might support the bragging bufflehead.

  • May is not going to sack Johnson. She's too weak. Paradoxically, this also means that she denies him the chance to play martyr.

    Would he have any support for a leadership bid? Are the Tories as crazy as that?

    Yes he has support in the membership and the Brexiteers
  • HYUFD said:

    Not if Boris takes over before the negotiations are completed and cancels them on the basis that he is not going to pay hundreds of millions to the EU and then calls and wins a snap general election

    Great plan. It might even work.

    Then what?
  • @Richard_Nabavi I don't think it's a bizzare comment Richard. Quite possibly wrong or exaggerated but not bizzare. However nuts Brexit drives the Conservatives the electorate put the child lock on by taking away their majority. God alone knows what they could do with a majority of 150.

    As some one who still even now finds the GE17 utterly bewildering this all comes as close as anything else does to explaining it. How is it remotely possible for 40% of the population of an old, wise, stable, complex industrial democracy to vote the Jeremy Corbyn to be PM ?

    Well look at what your party is putting the country through with it's euro lycenthropy.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Every chance this little intervention turns out to be poorly timed.
  • May is not going to sack Johnson. She's too weak. Paradoxically, this also means that she denies him the chance to play martyr.

    Would he have any support for a leadership bid? Are the Tories as crazy as that?

    The Machiavellian move might be to swap David Davis and Boris Johnson's jobs.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,433
    edited September 2017
    Scott_P said:

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
    I've always said Boris said they'd be £350m for the NHS and that it was probably not a very accurate number.

    Was intensely relaxed about the whole thing and still am! :D
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017

    @Richard_Nabavi I don't think it's a bizzare comment Richard. Quite possibly wrong or exaggerated but not bizzare. However nuts Brexit drives the Conservatives the electorate put the child lock on by taking away their majority.

    They didn't put a child lock on the doors of the car, they disconnected the steering wheel, at a time when we absolutely need to be at a particular destination on a tight schedule.
  • Scott_P said:
    So he's being entirely consistent. Not his fault if you're too thick to read beyond the headline.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
  • dr_spyn said:
    She's 39 minutes slow
  • Scott_P said:

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
    He didn't and he's still not saying it. Quite clear in black and white. "A lot of that money" != "all of it".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639
    edited September 2017
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.

    Why
    Everything is good for yes.

    In this case Boris is about as popular north of the border as a Johnson slapped in your face.
    Wrong actually, according to the July Survation a Boris led Tory Party would poll 32% in Scotland, even above the 29% they got in June, Labour would be on 36% and the SNP would fall to under 30%
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/MoS-Brexit-Poll-Tables-16.07.2017.pdf
  • dr_spyn said:
    She's 39 minutes slow
    Perhaps it was date night.
  • dr_spyn said:
    Thank God for Ruth.
    Can she just hurry up and become PM now?

    Even the hardcore lefties of my acquaintance love Ruth.
  • HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    I can say, with little fear of contradiction, that this is good for Yes.

    Why
    Everything is good for yes.

    In this case Boris is about as popular north of the border as a Johnson slapped in your face.
    Wrong actually, according to the July Survation a Boris led Tory Party would poll 32% in Scotland, even above the 29% they got in June, Labour would be on 36% and the SNP would fall to under 30%
    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/MoS-Brexit-Poll-Tables-16.07.2017.pdf
    Can you post the MOE for that Scottish sub-sample please?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    HYUFD said:

    Not if Boris takes over before the negotiations are completed and cancels them on the basis that he is not going to pay hundreds of millions to the EU and then calls and wins a snap general election

    Great plan. It might even work.

    Then what?
    to hell in a hand cart (very rapidly)
  • dr_spyn said:
    She's 39 minutes slow
    Perhaps it was date night.
    Hey I managed to write a PB thread and post several tweets on date night.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    edited September 2017
    Some thoughts. Not at all fully formed.
    1 One thing is that we now know what is in May's Florence speech. Presumably, other Senior Ministers have seen it and (in general at least) approved it.
    2 Which leaves Boris isolated (unless anyone else comes on board).
    3 May cannot back down, but is too weak to sack him and have him on the back benches.
    4 Where does Ms Davidson stand in all this? She has been busting her metaphorical balls to even get Scots to consider voting Tory. Boris puts the kaibosh on that. EDIT: I see she's tweeted.
    5 Is a Boris/Osborne alliance on the cards? It would be powerful enough to see off May.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,639

    HYUFD said:

    Not if Boris takes over before the negotiations are completed and cancels them on the basis that he is not going to pay hundreds of millions to the EU and then calls and wins a snap general election

    Great plan. It might even work.

    Then what?
    Labour gets rid of Corbyn and elects Umunna on a pro single market platform and waits most likely
  • dixiedean said:

    Some thoughts. Not at all fully formed.
    1 One thing is that we now know what is in May's Florence speech. Presumably, other Senior Ministers have seen it and (in general at least) approved it.
    2 Which leaves Boris isolated (unless anyone else comes on board).
    3 May cannot back down, but is too weak to sack him and have him on the back benches.
    4 Where does Ms Davidson stand in all this? She has been busting her metaphorical balls to even get Scots to consider voting Tory. Boris puts the kaibosh on that.
    5 Is a Boris/Osborne alliance on the cards? It would be powerful enough to see off May.

    Osborne's alliance is with Gove.
  • dixiedean said:

    Some thoughts. Not at all fully formed.
    1 One thing is that we now know what is in May's Florence speech. Presumably, other Senior Ministers have seen it and (in general at least) approved it.
    2 Which leaves Boris isolated (unless anyone else comes on board).
    3 May cannot back down, but is too weak to sack him and have him on the back benches.
    4 Where does Ms Davidson stand in all this? She has been busting her metaphorical balls to even get Scots to consider voting Tory. Boris puts the kaibosh on that.
    5 Is a Boris/Osborne alliance on the cards? It would be powerful enough to see off May.

    Osborne could be the only Tory who holds Boris in even more contempt than Davison.

  • @Richard_Nabavi I don't think it's a bizzare comment Richard. Quite possibly wrong or exaggerated but not bizzare. However nuts Brexit drives the Conservatives the electorate put the child lock on by taking away their majority.

    They didn't put a child lock on the doors of the car, they disconnected the steering wheel, at a time when we absolutely need to be at a particular destination on a tight schedule.
    I'm happy to accept your steering wheel analogy instead of my child lock. The electorate disconnected the steering wheel to stop May driving off a cliff. Which as an aside is what Brexit is. Brexit is the end of Thelma and Louise. The genius of the Leave campaign I completely missed at the time was harnessing the power of suicide as self actualisation. Thelma and Louise drive of a cliff. Yet are empowered feminist heroes.

    Now you can rightly argue the electorate is now stuck after disconnecting the steering wheel which is very irritating. But I'd rather be immobile than die like Thelma and Louise.
  • dixiedean said:

    Some thoughts. Not at all fully formed.
    1 One thing is that we now know what is in May's Florence speech. Presumably, other Senior Ministers have seen it and (in general at least) approved it.
    2 Which leaves Boris isolated (unless anyone else comes on board).
    3 May cannot back down, but is too weak to sack him and have him on the back benches.
    4 Where does Ms Davidson stand in all this? She has been busting her metaphorical balls to even get Scots to consider voting Tory. Boris puts the kaibosh on that.
    5 Is a Boris/Osborne alliance on the cards? It would be powerful enough to see off May.

    5 - No - Leaver v Remainer and TM is going anyway
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    Maybe he actually believed what he said at the time and still does?

    Can we get a list of the PB posters who swore up and down that Boris never said £350m for the NHS...
    No we can't, if you want to make the claim, you do the work and produce the link. Allegans probare debet, as we say this side of the border.

    In fact this leaves you a bit fecked, because you have sworn up and down that the figure was a lie, and now it turns out it might well not be. Still, there must be some mileage left in pretending not to know the meaning of ordinary English words like "expert" and "accession talks".
  • There appears to be a change in the tent urination arrangements.

    It's worth noting that Boris Johnson has shortened on Betfair for both next Prime Minister and next Conservative leader, but not that markedly. He clearly wants it but has he the Parliamentary base to get it? My instinct is no.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Y0kel said:

    Every chance this little intervention turns out to be poorly timed.

    You don't say :smile:
This discussion has been closed.