I haven't changed my view of Osborne at all over the past 18 months
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances - He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign - He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities - I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays - He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
What I find interesting about the Osborne comments is that they came out. Either Osborne wanted them to come out or someone at the Standard doesn't like him.
Or it is a move calculated to sell more newspapers, currently his day job.
Well I said on here a few days ago that they're paying people to shove it into people's hands on Waterloo Bridge so it wouldn't be a surprise if Osborne's getting desperate.
There's only one thing I'd use a paper edited by George Osborne for but I wouldn't want to boost his circulation figures.
Either there’s not a lot really happening at Parsons Green or the authorities really have a lid on it!
The fact that British Transport Police are still in charge rather than Counter Terrorism suggests its not too serious - though that doesn't mean there won't be injuries.
More people probably got hurt in the stampede and panic rather than the explosion itself.
Either there’s not a lot really happening at Parsons Green or the authorities really have a lid on it!
The fact that British Transport Police are still in charge rather than Counter Terrorism suggests its not too serious - though that doesn't mean there won't be injuries.
More people probably got hurt in the stampede and panic rather than the explosion itself.
A witness on the BBC site’s mentioned ‘burns’. Buit I suspect you are right about the stampede; very frightening if one does fall in one as I did once.
It is a free sheet, though rumours abound that advertising revenues have shot up since George Osborne CH, became Editor.
Perhaps a chance to advertise the latest freezers: "Make a Miele of it."
The amusing thing is some of the anti-Osbornites/Hardcore Leavers in the Tory party often speculate about his marriage and his wife.
Just like the vile Damian McBride did.
I am saddened by George. He was a good enough Chancellor and did have a sense of humour which may have been misunderstood in some ways. It is reported that he disliked May in the home office and it has become apparent that this was reciprocated.
Maybe the way TM sacked him was insensitive but his behaviour towards her since has shown a flaw in his character. He should have taken the high ground and criticized her in a constructive way rather than descend into schoolboy name calling.
His most recent outburst was always going to attrack anger, especially in the climate of abuse to MP's and he has only succeeded in making himself unpopular with most of the party he says he supports.
It is a free sheet, though rumours abound that advertising revenues have shot up since George Osborne CH, became Editor.
Perhaps a chance to advertise the latest freezers: "Make a Miele of it."
The amusing thing is some of the anti-Osbornites/Hardcore Leavers in the Tory party often speculate about his marriage and his wife.
Just like the vile Damian McBride did.
I am sure I will in due course see the funny side of that...
Seriously, the temperature needs dialling down here. Hating him would be unbalanced behaviour, and so would diagnosing hatred of him where it patently doesn't exist. He is simply a bit of a twerp. He is also one of the, ooh, top 5 people with most responsibility for the Leave victory, which makes me scratch my head at the Remainer knickers being got into a twist at the first sign of any criticism of him. And anyway it really doesn't matter, it is his own standing and reputation which is bearing the brunt of the damage. "His own worst enemy" is a useful expression sometimes.
Reactions to George Osborne's reported remarks are, as usual, far more revealing about those reacting than the person making the remarks. The reactions would have been entirely different if the reported remarks had been made by John McDonnell, David Davis or Vince Cable about a widely-understood political enemy, according to prior political allegiance.
So far this morning we've had the suggestion that George Osborne, actually one of the wittier politicians, can't tell a joke and that he's never seen laughing. No doubt we will have more such nonsense before this story has run its course, so deranged is the hatred of him in some quarters.
Would I have made the analogy he made? No. But I am not George Osborne and I have different flaws. Is it the worst thing ever said in the history of humanity? No. His obsessive critics need to get a grip on themselves. They could start by honestly asking themselves exactly why they hate him so much. Hint: the essential reason is that he shrewdly and clearly articulates what's so flaky about their political aims. The correct response is not to hate him but to address the flakiness.
It's curious because a massive recent bugbear of the hard Right has been, rightly, about meddling PC do-gooders telling us what jokes we can tell. Yet when one of their opponents makes a naughty gag (in private I might add) they're straight in there with the Safe-Space-No-Right-To-Offend Brigade. It's a puzzling form of hypocrisy.
I haven't changed my view of Osborne at all over the past 18 months
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances - He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign - He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities - I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays - He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
Can't disagree with much of that.
As far as the 'incitement' remark is concerned, wasn't it a (poorly judged) joke in a private meeting which was leaked ? If so, it hardly rises to the level of incitement, poor taste though it may be.
It is a free sheet, though rumours abound that advertising revenues have shot up since George Osborne CH, became Editor.
Perhaps a chance to advertise the latest freezers: "Make a Miele of it."
The amusing thing is some of the anti-Osbornites/Hardcore Leavers in the Tory party often speculate about his marriage and his wife.
Just like the vile Damian McBride did.
TSE: (distressed) What have I done?
Darth Gideon (aka Chancellor Osborne): You are fulfilling your destiny, TSE. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the Daft Side of the Force. There's no turning back now.
TSE: I will do whatever you ask. Just help me save Theresa's political career. I can't live without her. If she resigns, I don't know what I will do regarding "May is Crap" threads!.
Darth Gideon: To cheat political osbcurity is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret to eternal AV Threads!
TSE: I pledge myself to your teachings. To the ways of the REMAIN Campaign.
Darth Gideon: Good. Good! The Force is strong with you, TSE. A powerful REMAINER you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Eagles.
I haven't changed my view of Osborne at all over the past 18 months
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances - He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign - He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities - I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays - He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
I'm currently reading Team of Rivals, which frankly should be compulsory for all politicians. Unfortunately, those who need it most are least likely to read it. As Lincoln said, #Gettysburg Chicken Lee loses. Sad. Lol.
Reactions to George Osborne's reported remarks are, as usual, far more revealing about those reacting than the person making the remarks. The reactions would have been entirely different if the reported remarks had been made by John McDonnell, David Davis or Vince Cable about a widely-understood political enemy, according to prior political allegiance.
So far this morning we've had the suggestion that George Osborne, actually one of the wittier politicians, can't tell a joke and that he's never seen laughing. No doubt we will have more such nonsense before this story has run its course, so deranged is the hatred of him in some quarters.
Would I have made the analogy he made? No. But I am not George Osborne and I have different flaws. Is it the worst thing ever said in the history of humanity? No. His obsessive critics need to get a grip on themselves. They could start by honestly asking themselves exactly why they hate him so much. Hint: the essential reason is that he shrewdly and clearly articulates what's so flaky about their political aims. The correct response is not to hate him but to address the flakiness.
It's curious because a massive recent bugbear of the hard Right has been, rightly, about meddling PC do-gooders telling us what jokes we can tell. Yet when one of their opponents makes a naughty gag (in private I might add) they're straight in there with the Safe-Space-No-Right-To-Offend Brigade. It's a puzzling form of hypocrisy.
Reactions to George Osborne's reported remarks are, as usual, far more revealing about those reacting than the person making the remarks. The reactions would have been entirely different if the reported remarks had been made by John McDonnell, David Davis or Vince Cable about a widely-understood political enemy, according to prior political allegiance.
So far this morning we've had the suggestion that George Osborne, actually one of the wittier politicians, can't tell a joke and that he's never seen laughing. No doubt we will have more such nonsense before this story has run its course, so deranged is the hatred of him in some quarters.
Would I have made the analogy he made? No. But I am not George Osborne and I have different flaws. Is it the worst thing ever said in the history of humanity? No. His obsessive critics need to get a grip on themselves. They could start by honestly asking themselves exactly why they hate him so much. Hint: the essential reason is that he shrewdly and clearly articulates what's so flaky about their political aims. The correct response is not to hate him but to address the flakiness.
IMO George Osborne's record in office is more than enough to condemn him - some of us haven't changed their views over the last 15 months.
If Osborne was still in a Conservative government some of his critics would be cheering him whilst some of his new fans would be condemning him.
And Osborne himself would be singing a different tune if May had retained him as Chancellor.
When it comes down to it 'my side right, your side wrong' is a dominant factor in politics.
Was it too much or too little spending that you criticise him for? Or something else?
"He is a political tactician, who time and again has put party political gain ahead of the economic interests of the economy. We see this in many ‘small’ things, like the contents of his last budget and Autumn statement, to more important things, like his support for policy on immigration or Europe. It is defined by both what he has not done (total inaction on monetary policy, when - unlike the US and Europe - he has considerable power), as well as what he has done (accelerated austerity). The politics may still come good for him, but the damage to the UK economy his action and inaction has caused is final."
It is a free sheet, though rumours abound that advertising revenues have shot up since George Osborne CH, became Editor.
Perhaps a chance to advertise the latest freezers: "Make a Miele of it."
Just like the vile Damian McBride did.
I thought the McBride smear was about Cameron?
The emails from Mr McBride were sent to Derek Draper, a former adviser to Lord Mandelson. They were suggested for use as the basis of a series of lurid and unsubstantiated stories on the website The Red Rag, registered in November.
The emails included a fabricated story about Frances Osborne, the wife of the shadow chancellor, which was repeated in The Sunday Times and the News of the World.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
I think Osborne's reported comment was a little ill-judged, but not a serious matter. Free speech includes the right to make remarks other people don't like.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
I think Osborne's reported comment was a little ill-judged, but not a serious matter. Free speech includes the right to make remarks other people don't like.
Most unpleasant remark I thought, and Mrs May’s riposte was about the best comment she’s made.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
I thought I might translate this latest statement from Wetherspoon.
Most plcs are expected to comment, in their results statements, on the UK’s prospects outside of the EU and on the likely impact on their individual companies. It is my view that the main risk from the current Brexit negotiations is not to Wetherspoon, but to our excellent EU suppliers – and to EU economies.
We think we can still sell cheap beer and garbage food to Brits but we are being hit with price rises blaming currency movements. Cost pressures are beginning to bite and maybe time to sell the shares.
Trump could fix the federal accounts (and fundraise enough to build a wall on the side) by putting a lot of money on 0 tweets and locking his phone away for a week.....
Trump could fix the federal accounts (and fundraise enough to build a wall on the side) by putting a lot of money on 0 tweets and locking his phone away for a week.....
Not with Paddy Power's stake limits, he couldn't. He'd be lucky if he could pay for a brick.
The sterling effective exchange rate depreciated 20% between November 2015 and October 2016, including a record 6.5% fall between June and July 2016 following the EU referendum vote.
This led to higher input costs for UK manufacturers due to rising prices for imported raw materials and fuels and also higher output prices for exported goods in sterling terms. Experimental volume estimates suggest that while exports increased steadily from 2014, there was a 9.9 percentage point rise in the 3 month year-on-year rolling average growth rate between July 2016 and March 2017 following the EU referendum vote.
The sterling effective exchange rate depreciated 20% between November 2015 and October 2016, including a record 6.5% fall between June and July 2016 following the EU referendum vote.
This led to higher input costs for UK manufacturers due to rising prices for imported raw materials and fuels and also higher output prices for exported goods in sterling terms.
Experimental volume estimates suggest that while exports increased steadily from 2014, there was a 9.9 percentage point rise in the 3 month year-on-year rolling average growth rate between July 2016 and March 2017 following the EU referendum vote.
I haven't changed my view of Osborne at all over the past 18 months
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances - He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign - He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities - I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays - He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
I'm currently reading Team of Rivals, which frankly should be compulsory for all politicians. Unfortunately, those who need it most are least likely to read it. As Lincoln said, #Gettysburg Chicken Lee loses. Sad. Lol.
Thanks for the recommendation - I'll buy that book. Sounds fab.
Ironically - re the Damien Mcbride comments, and his undeniable role in the lowering of standards in public life, I thought his book was one of the best political books I've ever read.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Rather a damp squib -- perhaps a lone wolf who failed GCSE chemistry or premature ignition while gathering the ingredients for a bomb. There should be more than enough forensics assuming someone put the fire out, and the tube is festooned with cameras.
Hannibal Osborne offers Tories a new psycho drama.
I never really rated Osborne - I think he was a better Chancellor than Brown, but that's like saying someone is less aggressive than Kim Jong Un. But I am inclined to think given his recent behaviour that sacking him was one of May's unambiguously sensible moves.
Nadine wants him banned from conference
Given the nature of the comments made that should be just the start. You need to take your anti-Brexit glasses off and think it through.
It is worth pointing out that ordinary people have been arrested for making remarks like that on Twitter. Remember the disgruntled traveller who threatened to blow up Nottingham Airport?
While he may have meant it as a joke, it was a tasteless and unfunny joke (a bit like most of Frankie Boyle's output). If he can't see that, he should keep his mouth shut.
I think the time for jokes of that nature ended with the murder of Jo Cox.
It was plainly a joke, and could have been quite a good one in context. It is metaphorical, rather like calling her " a dead woman walking" in June. If George really was planning cannibalism then I suspect he would be more discreet!
Conference will be popcorn season though.
The Conservative conference looks set to be a sequel to The Wicker Man.
I do hope you're not Theresa May as Britt Ekland...
And having caused everyone to vomit, I am off to work. Have a good day.
Which reminds me, why are there 4 "d" s in Edward Woodward? Otherwise he would be known as Ewar Woowar....
Reactions to George Osborne's reported remarks are, as usual, far more revealing about those reacting than the person making the remarks. The reactions would have been entirely different if the reported remarks had been made by John McDonnell, David Davis or Vince Cable about a widely-understood political enemy, according to prior political allegiance.
So far this morning we've had the suggestion that George Osborne, actually one of the wittier politicians, can't tell a joke and that he's never seen laughing. No doubt we will have more such nonsense before this story has run its course, so deranged is the hatred of him in some quarters.
Would I have made the analogy he made? No. But I am not George Osborne and I have different flaws. Is it the worst thing ever said in the history of humanity? No. His obsessive critics need to get a grip on themselves. They could start by honestly asking themselves exactly why they hate him so much. Hint: the essential reason is that he shrewdly and clearly articulates what's so flaky about their political aims. The correct response is not to hate him but to address the flakiness.
It's curious because a massive recent bugbear of the hard Right has been, rightly, about meddling PC do-gooders telling us what jokes we can tell. Yet when one of their opponents makes a naughty gag (in private I might add) they're straight in there with the Safe-Space-No-Right-To-Offend Brigade. It's a puzzling form of hypocrisy.
It's perfectly consistent to think the law shouldn't be used against people making jokes, and to think that individual jokes are spiteful and tasteless.
King Cole, if there's no freedom to offend, there's only freedom to be agreeable. You hand the boundaries of free speech over to the ridiculously over-sensitive.
When the Jesus and Mo cartoon was disgracefully covered by Newsnight, the line from Muslims who wanted it banned was that they wanted 'respectful' speech. We shouldn't be keen to throw away the right to express ourselves because some people think it crosses a line.
Osborne wasn't revealing state secrets, stalking, inciting violence or shouting 'fire' in a theatre.
Edited extra bit: thanks, Mr. NorthWales/King Cole, for that answer.
I haven't changed my view of Osborne at all over the past 18 months
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances - He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign - He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities - I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays - He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
I'm currently reading Team of Rivals, which frankly should be compulsory for all politicians. Unfortunately, those who need it most are least likely to read it. As Lincoln said, #Gettysburg Chicken Lee loses. Sad. Lol.
Thanks for the recommendation - I'll buy that book. Sounds fab.
Ironically - re the Damien Mcbride comments, and his undeniable role in the lowering of standards in public life, I thought his book was one of the best political books I've ever read.
I've not read that one yet, though I've heard several good reviews, to which yours adds more weight. Tim Shipman's All Out War is another super work on modern politics (all the more so as it was written so quickly).
Team Of Rivals is not just a really good read, it's a great education about what is possible in politics with magnanimity and vision. I'll put a proper review up on Amazon when I've finished. I've read another of Doris Kearns Goodwin's books - Bully Pulpit, on the interrelated careers of Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft - and Team of Rivals is better.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
What's your solution by the way? Presumably making nasty jokes about politicians should be treated as a Hate Crime.
Rather a damp squib -- perhaps a lone wolf who failed GCSE chemistry or premature ignition while gathering the ingredients for a bomb. There should be more than enough forensics assuming someone put the fire out, and the tube is festooned with cameras.
Not a damp squib for those injured and the many children who were dreadfully frightened as apparently it was at the time that school children are on the tube trains.
King Cole, if there's no freedom to offend, there's only freedom to be agreeable. You hand the boundaries of free speech over to the ridiculously over-sensitive.
When the Jesus and Mo cartoon was disgracefully covered by Newsnight, the line from Muslims who wanted it banned was that they wanted 'respectful' speech. We shouldn't be keen to throw away the right to express ourselves because some people think it crosses a line.
Osborne wasn't revealing state secrets, stalking, inciting violence or shouting 'fire' in a theatre.
Edited extra bit: thanks, Mr. NorthWales/King Cole, for that answer.
I’m, perhaps unusually, inclined to agree with Mr North Wales on this occasion.
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
What's your solution by the way? Presumably making nasty jokes about politicians should be treated as a Hate Crime.
There are some who are genuinely wanting to legislate on this, especially in the labour party.
King Cole, if there's no freedom to offend, there's only freedom to be agreeable. You hand the boundaries of free speech over to the ridiculously over-sensitive.
When the Jesus and Mo cartoon was disgracefully covered by Newsnight, the line from Muslims who wanted it banned was that they wanted 'respectful' speech. We shouldn't be keen to throw away the right to express ourselves because some people think it crosses a line.
Osborne wasn't revealing state secrets, stalking, inciting violence or shouting 'fire' in a theatre.
Edited extra bit: thanks, Mr. NorthWales/King Cole, for that answer.
I’m, perhaps unusually, inclined to agree with Mr North Wales on this occasion.
It is always good on PB that we can agree on things when we may have been expected not to agree
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
What's your solution by the way? Presumably making nasty jokes about politicians should be treated as a Hate Crime.
There are some who are genuinely wanting to legislate on this, especially in the labour party.
I am not one of them or in the labour party
My word. Agreeing twice!!!! Contempt for such utterances is, IMHO, better than resorting to law!
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
What's your solution by the way? Presumably making nasty jokes about politicians should be treated as a Hate Crime.
There are some who are genuinely wanting to legislate on this, especially in the labour party.
I am not one of them or in the labour party
My word. Agreeing twice!!!! Contempt for such utterances is, IMHO, better than resorting to law!
The sisterhood have got it in for him judging by women's hour on r4. Including Isabel hardman, so not just the spartists. I thought it was funny and not actually"gendered" at all. But it's getting a short term laugh at the expense of long term damage. Placing a whoopee cushion on the throne at the next coronation would similarly be both very funny, and ill advised.
A free British citizen being hounded by self-styled moral arbiters for a joke he made in private? I'm expecting a full-page polemic against it by Brendan O'Neill!
Ever since Jo Cox murder, the heightened abuse against politicians and the debate in Parliament yesterday, George's comments were very badly timed as they fit into both categories, abusive language towards a politician and in this case a woman
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
What's your solution by the way? Presumably making nasty jokes about politicians should be treated as a Hate Crime.
There are some who are genuinely wanting to legislate on this, especially in the labour party.
I am not one of them or in the labour party
My word. Agreeing twice!!!! Contempt for such utterances is, IMHO, better than resorting to law!
I think it was on the boundary between bad taste jokes and bad taste, e.g. like the Tony Banks joke about William Hague's resemblance to a foetus. But it's clearly OK if a country has free speech laws.
Private Eye is sometimes full of letters from people cancelling their sub. and other people saying: 'Your last cover was in the worst possible taste. Keep up the good work'.
Maybe there should be a separate political party for people who suffer from sense of humour failure.
Police just said that it was terrorist bomb but it did not fully detonate
Should be a good source of evidence then. We can get another one or two of these imbeciles locked away for most of their adult life.
There must be a massive exercise going on across the Tube network at the moment but thankfully the period of multiple attacks at the same time seems to have passed. Presumably the organisation that requires makes interception far more likely.
George Osborne has more raw political talent in his little finger than May has in her cabinet.
I guess that's why he edits a free-sheet and May is PM.......
And to think, if he had not flounced off he would be pretty well odds on favourite to succeed May. That is so ironic
Its quite possible the Maidenhead by-election would already have been held......maybe that's the source of his bitterness?
I think he would have held on if he had realised that she was going to screw up the election so badly that she wouldn't have a majority. He was very far from alone in making that mistake.
He understood the thinking that happened there when he was the gatekeeper of thought and apparently bullied / ignored others into submission. Its possible that that is no longer the case...
O/T the Conservatives have gained 51 seats, since 2010, and lost 39. That's a really interesting shift in allegiances, underneath three results which (in terms of seats won) have been very similar for them.
The soundest views on Brexit that I have heard from a politician recently were Jacob Rees-Mogg's in his interview with Nick Ferrari to which @Ishmael_Z posted a link yesterday. E.g. on the Irish border, to declare that the UK should seek no border whatsoever, leaving it to the EU to persuade Ireland to put a border in place. When Ferrari asked him about Osborne's vile comment JRM gave a nicely measured impromptu (because he hadn't known about it) response: "The sadnesss of George Osborne is that he is a formidably able man, he served with distinction as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he has decided since leaving parliament to emulate a rather less successful Edward Heath, and I think this type of bitterness and bile ends up making the person who has that bitterness and bile feel resentful and sad and it has no effect on broader politics ... "
"The sadnesss of George Osborne is that he is a formidably able man, he served with distinction as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he has decided since leaving parliament to emulate a rather less successful Edward Heath, and I think this type of bitterness and bile ends up making the person who has that bitterness and bile feel resentful and sad and it has no effect on broader politics ... "
Elegantly put. No doubt EveningWestminster Standard readership is soaring in SW1.....the rest of London, maybe not so much.
It would mean that the SCons, having monopolised the unionist message, go backwards, while Scottish Labour reap the rewards of their increasing ambivalence on the independence question.
A week or so ago I suggested that the first real Scottish poll would show the SNP well ahead and the Tories starting to fade from their General Election performance and Labour starting a modest recovery.
On Sunday the Times released a Panelbase poll showing the SNP with a commanding 16 point lead but with the Tories still in a good second and Labour in the doldums. Of course the poll, was misreported by the paper because it didn't suit their unionist prejudices but facts are chiels that wanna ding.
Today there is a Survation Poll showing the SNP with an identical 16 % pt lead (42-26). Again it is misreported this time by the Mail. However of more significance than that is the first clear evidence of fading Tories with seat projection now 54 SNP, 30 Lab, Tories down to 24, Liberals at 13 and Greens on 8.
That is the Tories fading not just from their 2017 performance but from 2016. On the Mail misreporting they centre on the Independence parties being 3 short of overall majority!
I would have though that well into third term of SNP Government Ms Sturgeon is sitting rather pretty on 42 per cent of the vote - not in the stratosphere of polling like her predecessor but still handy enough..
There was a sharp intake of breath in Scottish Nationalist circles this week when an op-ed by the writer Andrew Tickell appeared in the Times. Tickell is one of the pro-independence writers who made his name blogging during the 2014 referendum. He is smart, thoughtful and fair-minded – unusually so, in that circle – and now a regular on the media circuit.
In the article, headlined "Seasoned showman Salmond must bow out", Tickell made the case that the former first minister’s refusal to lower his profile since stepping down as leader in 2014, and especially since losing his Westminster seat this June, has become a problem for the Scottish National Party and, not least, his successor Nicola Sturgeon.
The truth is that the current leadership has long since grown weary of Salmond’s jack-in-the-box antics, his insatiable lust for publicity, his barrelling interventions into nuanced political calculations. He has been the opposite of a good ex-leader: at times, less a back-seat driver than an aggressive competitor slamming his rusting jalopy into the side of Sturgeon’s ministerial limo.
The truth is that the current leadership has long since grown weary of Salmond’s jack-in-the-box antics, his insatiable lust for publicity, his barrelling interventions into nuanced political calculations. He has been the opposite of a good ex-leader: at times, less a back-seat driver than an aggressive competitor slamming his rusting jalopy into the side of Sturgeon’s ministerial limo.
The former first minister Alex Salmond is to host a new weekend radio show on LBC.
The three-hour show called Salmond on Sunday will launch this weekend at 3pm. A spokesman for the London-based commercial station said that it would “tackle the nation’s most important and talked about issues” with a programme of “fiery debate, intelligent discussion, breaking news and informed opinion”.
A week or so ago I suggested that the first real Scottish poll would show the SNP well ahead and the Tories starting to fade from their General Election performance and Labour starting a modest recovery. .
For those Scots who never got round to drinking the Kool-aid, one of the most baffling and frustrating things about the past decade has been this obsessive loyalty, the almost total uniformity of opinion and robotic obedience displayed by the SNP’s elected representatives and supporters.
GERMAN car giant BMW has admitted any post-Brexit trade tarrifs would have a massive impact on its business. Bosses voiced their fears a day after their counterparts at Toyota in Japan and PSA in France both expressed concern at the UK’s planned departure from the European Union.
BMW’s head of purchasing Markus Duesmann described Brexit as a "very uncomfortable scenario”. He said the company - world’s second-largest maker of luxury cars - fears the introduction of tariffs and other trade barriers being imposed on its cars and parts.
World Trade Organization duties on cars stands at about 10 per cent.
Speaking at the Frankfirt Motor Show, Mr Duesmann said: “Anything beyond zero level of duty will possibly lead to us changing our value chain.
“We’re extremely concerned that the Brexit talks have been so piecemeal and slow so far
Because the package did not explode the police may well be able to spot the same package being taken onto the tube train at one of the previous five stations and who was carrying it.
With inflation at 25 per cent, prices double every three years; with inflation at 2.9 per cent the doubling would take a generation. Bank of England base rates then shuttled breathlessly between 5 and 15 per cent — whereas they sit today, as they have done since 2009, at record lows.
With inflation at 25 per cent, prices double every three years; with inflation at 2.9 per cent the doubling would take a generation. Bank of England base rates then shuttled breathlessly between 5 and 15 per cent — whereas they sit today, as they have done since 2009, at record lows.
Comments
- I reckon he did a decent job as Chancellor under extraordinarily trying circumstances
- He showed amazing, career-sacrificing loyalty to Cameron through the EU-Ref campaign
- He would never have been a popular leader, despite his abilities
- I suspect he is a lot more charming in person than his media image portrays
- He shares a weakness for the low-minded gossip and spite which permeates politics these days
He's clearly pissed off with May, and I think he has a right to be. He sacrificed his own career on the altar of the Remain campaign and he probably thought the next Tory leader would reward him for that. She didn't. She discarded him like a dog-shit bag. Hey ho. It's high level politics.
Contrast this current Tory-wings bitch fight with those more high-minded (and even more challenging) times of the early 80s. Thatcher was unpopular in the country and among the wets in her party. But she didn't throw tantrums, or bitch about colleagues in public. Instead she worked warmly and closely with one of the chief wets, Willie Whitelaw, and won some extraordinary political battles. Not the least, the miner's strike, in which Whitelaw negotiated for her in the strictest confidence.
A bit more high-mindedness we need today. I think Osborne could've been a high quality politician if he didn't sweat the small stuff, and if he had quit the inter-party sniping (the us versus them stuff, for which he was notorious).
With regard to May, I don't think she has anywhere near the quality required to lead the country.
Just like the vile Damian McBride did.
More people probably got hurt in the stampede and panic rather than the explosion itself.
Buit I suspect you are right about the stampede; very frightening if one does fall in one as I did once.
Maybe the way TM sacked him was insensitive but his behaviour towards her since has shown a flaw in his character. He should have taken the high ground and criticized her in a constructive way rather than descend into schoolboy name calling.
His most recent outburst was always going to attrack anger, especially in the climate of abuse to MP's and he has only succeeded in making himself unpopular with most of the party he says he supports.
I just think it is all so unnecessary
Seriously, the temperature needs dialling down here. Hating him would be unbalanced behaviour, and so would diagnosing hatred of him where it patently doesn't exist. He is simply a bit of a twerp. He is also one of the, ooh, top 5 people with most responsibility for the Leave victory, which makes me scratch my head at the Remainer knickers being got into a twist at the first sign of any criticism of him. And anyway it really doesn't matter, it is his own standing and reputation which is bearing the brunt of the damage. "His own worst enemy" is a useful expression sometimes.
As far as the 'incitement' remark is concerned, wasn't it a (poorly judged) joke in a private meeting which was leaked ? If so, it hardly rises to the level of incitement, poor taste though it may be.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/macron-populism-le-pen-france-immigration/539688/
TSE: (distressed) What have I done?
Darth Gideon (aka Chancellor Osborne): You are fulfilling your destiny, TSE. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the Daft Side of the Force. There's no turning back now.
TSE: I will do whatever you ask. Just help me save Theresa's political career. I can't live without her. If she resigns, I don't know what I will do regarding "May is Crap" threads!.
Darth Gideon: To cheat political osbcurity is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force. But if we work together, I know we can discover the secret to eternal AV Threads!
TSE: I pledge myself to your teachings. To the ways of the REMAIN Campaign.
Darth Gideon: Good. Good! The Force is strong with you, TSE. A powerful REMAINER you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Eagles.
TSE: Thank you... my Master.
Darth Gideon: Lord Eagles... rise.
I just find his "joke" completely unamusing.
"He is a political tactician, who time and again has put party political gain ahead of the economic interests of the economy. We see this in many ‘small’ things, like the contents of his last budget and Autumn statement, to more important things, like his support for policy on immigration or Europe. It is defined by both what he has not done (total inaction on monetary policy, when - unlike the US and Europe - he has considerable power), as well as what he has done (accelerated austerity). The politics may still come good for him, but the damage to the UK economy his action and inaction has caused is final."
The emails included a fabricated story about Frances Osborne, the wife of the shadow chancellor, which was repeated in The Sunday Times and the News of the World.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown/5150296/Tories-lodge-formal-complaint-over-smear-campaign.html
https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/908620962987433984
What did May say?
Most plcs are expected to comment, in their results statements, on the UK’s prospects outside of the EU and on the likely impact on their individual companies. It is my view that the main risk from the current Brexit negotiations is not to Wetherspoon, but to our excellent EU suppliers – and to EU economies.
We think we can still sell cheap beer and garbage food to Brits but we are being hit with price rises blaming currency movements. Cost pressures are beginning to bite and maybe time to sell the shares.
The sterling effective exchange rate depreciated 20% between November 2015 and October 2016, including a record 6.5% fall between June and July 2016 following the EU referendum vote.
This led to higher input costs for UK manufacturers due to rising prices for imported raw materials and fuels and also higher output prices for exported goods in sterling terms.
Experimental volume estimates suggest that while exports increased steadily from 2014, there was a 9.9 percentage point rise in the 3 month year-on-year rolling average growth rate between July 2016 and March 2017 following the EU referendum vote.
The sterling effective exchange rate depreciated 20% between November 2015 and October 2016, including a record 6.5% fall between June and July 2016 following the EU referendum vote.
This led to higher input costs for UK manufacturers due to rising prices for imported raw materials and fuels and also higher output prices for exported goods in sterling terms.
Experimental volume estimates suggest that while exports increased steadily from 2014, there was a 9.9 percentage point rise in the 3 month year-on-year rolling average growth rate between July 2016 and March 2017 following the EU referendum vote.
Ironically - re the Damien Mcbride comments, and his undeniable role in the lowering of standards in public life, I thought his book was one of the best political books I've ever read.
May’s official spokesman said: “The contents of the former chancellor’s freezer are not a matter for me.”
When the Jesus and Mo cartoon was disgracefully covered by Newsnight, the line from Muslims who wanted it banned was that they wanted 'respectful' speech. We shouldn't be keen to throw away the right to express ourselves because some people think it crosses a line.
Osborne wasn't revealing state secrets, stalking, inciting violence or shouting 'fire' in a theatre.
Edited extra bit: thanks, Mr. NorthWales/King Cole, for that answer.
Team Of Rivals is not just a really good read, it's a great education about what is possible in politics with magnanimity and vision. I'll put a proper review up on Amazon when I've finished. I've read another of Doris Kearns Goodwin's books - Bully Pulpit, on the interrelated careers of Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft - and Team of Rivals is better.
Ironically his private remark may just have rebounded on him in a way he did not foresee
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4886906/Knifeman-attacks-French-soldier-Paris.html
Soldier attacked in Paris
Just another normal day in Europe.
I am not one of them or in the labour party
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/908629562887692288
Private Eye is sometimes full of letters from people cancelling their sub. and other people saying: 'Your last cover was in the worst possible taste. Keep up the good work'.
Maybe there should be a separate political party for people who suffer from sense of humour failure.
There must be a massive exercise going on across the Tube network at the moment but thankfully the period of multiple attacks at the same time seems to have passed. Presumably the organisation that requires makes interception far more likely.
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/908628271776112640
When Ferrari asked him about Osborne's vile comment JRM gave a nicely measured impromptu (because he hadn't known about it) response:
"The sadnesss of George Osborne is that he is a formidably able man, he served with distinction as Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he has decided since leaving parliament to emulate a rather less successful Edward Heath, and I think this type of bitterness and bile ends up making the person who has that bitterness and bile feel resentful and sad and it has no effect on broader politics ... "
https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/908606706250371072
https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/908607576291635200
https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/908608207299448832
https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/908608731692306433
On Sunday the Times released a Panelbase poll showing the SNP with a commanding 16 point lead but with the Tories still in a good second and Labour in the doldums. Of course the poll, was misreported by the paper because it didn't suit their unionist prejudices but facts are chiels that wanna ding.
Today there is a Survation Poll showing the SNP with an identical 16 % pt lead (42-26). Again it is misreported this time by the Mail. However of more significance than that is the first clear evidence of fading Tories with seat projection now 54 SNP, 30 Lab, Tories down to 24, Liberals at 13 and Greens on 8.
That is the Tories fading not just from their 2017 performance but from 2016. On the Mail misreporting they centre on the Independence parties being 3 short of overall majority!
I would have though that well into third term of SNP Government Ms Sturgeon is sitting rather pretty on 42 per cent of the vote - not in the stratosphere of polling like her predecessor but still handy enough..
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/908637955484475393
In the article, headlined "Seasoned showman Salmond must bow out", Tickell made the case that the former first minister’s refusal to lower his profile since stepping down as leader in 2014, and especially since losing his Westminster seat this June, has become a problem for the Scottish National Party and, not least, his successor Nicola Sturgeon.
The truth is that the current leadership has long since grown weary of Salmond’s jack-in-the-box antics, his insatiable lust for publicity, his barrelling interventions into nuanced political calculations. He has been the opposite of a good ex-leader: at times, less a back-seat driver than an aggressive competitor slamming his rusting jalopy into the side of Sturgeon’s ministerial limo.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/devolution/2017/09/will-alex-salmonds-attention-seeking-test-snps-aversion-criticising
Don't understand why Scots would be turning to the Lib Dems in such large numbers though. Seems odd.
The former first minister Alex Salmond is to host a new weekend radio show on LBC.
The three-hour show called Salmond on Sunday will launch this weekend at 3pm. A spokesman for the London-based commercial station said that it would “tackle the nation’s most important and talked about issues” with a programme of “fiery debate, intelligent discussion, breaking news and informed opinion”.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/alex-salmond-to-host-sunday-radio-show-on-lbc-zndnh2zcn
New Statesman
GERMAN car giant BMW has admitted any post-Brexit trade tarrifs would have a massive impact on its business. Bosses voiced their fears a day after their counterparts at Toyota in Japan and PSA in France both expressed concern at the UK’s planned departure from the European Union.
BMW’s head of purchasing Markus Duesmann described Brexit as a "very uncomfortable scenario”. He said the company - world’s second-largest maker of luxury cars - fears the introduction of tariffs and other trade barriers being imposed on its cars and parts.
World Trade Organization duties on cars stands at about 10 per cent.
Speaking at the Frankfirt Motor Show, Mr Duesmann said: “Anything beyond zero level of duty will possibly lead to us changing our value chain.
“We’re extremely concerned that the Brexit talks have been so piecemeal and slow so far
Plus plenty of clues within the package itself.
Sounds like a potentaiily solvable case.
With inflation at 25 per cent, prices double every three years; with inflation at 2.9 per cent the doubling would take a generation. Bank of England base rates then shuttled breathlessly between 5 and 15 per cent — whereas they sit today, as they have done since 2009, at record lows.
https://www.ft.com/content/bb661a96-989c-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/908642277987356673
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41248320