Perhaps there's a thought process behind this tweet. On balance, I'd probably rather not know.
Didn't Jon Snow himself admit they are out of touch in London?
Tim Montgomerie was quoting a tweet discussing the possibility of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham. But that apparently is insufficiently focussed on Brexit for what passes for the Leaver intelligentsia.
If they want to solve their out of touch problem it wouldn't be a bad idea!
Moving Channel 4 to Birmingham isn't a bad idea.
Moving it to Clacton or Grimsby simply because they were Brexit strongholds would be crackers.
Why not spend a few years/decades in a place that is totally opposite from London? That seems fair to me
Perhaps there's a thought process behind this tweet. On balance, I'd probably rather not know.
Didn't Jon Snow himself admit they are out of touch in London?
Tim Montgomerie was quoting a tweet discussing the possibility of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham. But that apparently is insufficiently focussed on Brexit for what passes for the Leaver intelligentsia.
If they want to solve their out of touch problem it wouldn't be a bad idea!
Moving Channel 4 to Birmingham isn't a bad idea.
Moving it to Clacton or Grimsby simply because they were Brexit strongholds would be crackers.
Perhaps there's a thought process behind this tweet. On balance, I'd probably rather not know.
Didn't Jon Snow himself admit they are out of touch in London?
Tim Montgomerie was quoting a tweet discussing the possibility of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham. But that apparently is insufficiently focussed on Brexit for what passes for the Leaver intelligentsia.
If they want to solve their out of touch problem it wouldn't be a bad idea!
Moving Channel 4 to Birmingham isn't a bad idea.
Moving it to Clacton or Grimsby simply because they were Brexit strongholds would be crackers.
Why not spend a few years/decades in a place that is totally opposite from London? That seems fair to me
Perhaps there's a thought process behind this tweet. On balance, I'd probably rather not know.
Didn't Jon Snow himself admit they are out of touch in London?
Tim Montgomerie was quoting a tweet discussing the possibility of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham. But that apparently is insufficiently focussed on Brexit for what passes for the Leaver intelligentsia.
If they want to solve their out of touch problem it wouldn't be a bad idea!
Moving Channel 4 to Birmingham isn't a bad idea.
Moving it to Clacton or Grimsby simply because they were Brexit strongholds would be crackers.
Why not spend a few years/decades in a place that is totally opposite from London? That seems fair to me
Perhaps there's a thought process behind this tweet. On balance, I'd probably rather not know.
Didn't Jon Snow himself admit they are out of touch in London?
Tim Montgomerie was quoting a tweet discussing the possibility of Channel 4 moving to Birmingham. But that apparently is insufficiently focussed on Brexit for what passes for the Leaver intelligentsia.
If they want to solve their out of touch problem it wouldn't be a bad idea!
Moving Channel 4 to Birmingham isn't a bad idea.
Moving it to Clacton or Grimsby simply because they were Brexit strongholds would be crackers.
Why not spend a few years/decades in a place that is totally opposite from London? That seems fair to me
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Doubt Bob Stewart would make a statement to that effect if it was not true. He should have gone further and named the teacher in the HOC
He wasnt there so how is he so 100% sure it happened like that? And using the HOC for personal vendettas (justified or otherwise) would be even more shocking
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Smart Boris. Good thing he isnt a cabinet minister at the moment and the face of LEAVE
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Smart Boris. Good thing he isnt a cabinet minister at the moment and the face of LEAVE
The fact he is the face of Leave means he will be better able to defend Brexit once we have actually left the EU and staying Foreign Secretary keeps him in the top tier to succeed May
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
I dunno - most Germans in my view can be justly proud of their ancestors. They are, one would hope, universally appalled as to the direction much of their ancestors efforts were directed.
History's history. We should happily take the good bits to suit us, and most assuredly we should make great efforts to learn from the all of bad bits.
Doubt Bob Stewart would make a statement to that effect if it was not true. He should have gone further and named the teacher in the HOC
He wasnt there so how is he so 100% sure it happened like that? And using the HOC for personal vendettas (justified or otherwise) would be even more shocking
Well, he has first-hand evidence from someone well-known to him and whose reliability as a witness he is very well-placed to judge, which is pretty much as good as evidence gets. You on the other hand are prepared to make the judgment "It sounds like bullshit to me" on the strength of no evidence at all. But I expect you had a really strong hunch about it. Like you did about Hillary.
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Heath resented Thatcher for the rest of his life for halting his career, Osborne is reduced to resenting May it seems
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
What is a successful Brexit? For 43% of the country in this week's ORB (enough to give Boris a small majority) it is a Brexit which ends free movement as the priority above even free trade with the EU and avoids vast repayments to Brussels.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Over my life, I've met French, Greeks, Poles, and Latvians who have expressed the view that occupying German soldiers behaved decently towards them or their parents. Of course, they weren't Jewish, and Nazi atrocities are well documented.
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
What is a successful Brexit? For 43% of the country in this week's ORB (enough to give Boris a small majority) it is a Brexit which ends free movement as the priority above even free trade with the EU and avoids vast repayments to Brussels.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
With all due respect Mr Johnson's tardy arrival and Mrs May's no-show have not gone unnoticed. The emergency package has also been described as inadequate.
I suggest Mr Johnson would be well advised to displace Mrs May pretty damn quickly if that is his plan. Immigration and the size of the divorce bill will be the least of our worries if we fall off the Brexit cliff.
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Cameron and Osborne both achieved high political office and then lost it sooner than they expected to. Their behaviour since has revealed their innate decency and nastiness respectively.
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
What is a successful Brexit? For 43% of the country in this week's ORB (enough to give Boris a small majority) it is a Brexit which ends free movement as the priority above even free trade with the EU and avoids vast repayments to Brussels.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
With all due respect Mr Johnson's tardy arrival and Mrs May's no-show have not gone unnoticed. The emergency package has also been described as inadequate.
I suggest Mr Johnson would be well advised to displace Mrs May pretty damn quickly if that is his plan. Immigration and the size of the divorce bill will be the least of our worries if we fall off the Brexit cliff.
The British Overseas Territories do extremely well out of British rule.
Brexit is, in a sense, a misnomer. There are five distinct parts of the UK: Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the global metropolis that is Greater London, and what the veteran campaigner for democratic reform Anthony Barnett, in his excellent new book The Lure of Greatness, calls England-without-London.* In three of these parts—Scotland, Northern Ireland, and London—Brexit was soundly rejected in last year’s referendum. Wales voted narrowly in favor of Brexit. But in England-without-London Brexit was triumphant, winning by almost 11 percent. It was moreover a classic nationalist revolt in that the support for Brexit in non-metropolitan England cut across the supposedly rigid divides of North and South, rich and poor. Every single region of England-without-London voted to leave the EU, from the Cotswolds to Cumbria, from the green and pleasant hills to the scarred old mining valleys. This was a genuine nationalist uprising, a nation transcending social class and geographical divisions to rally behind the cry of “Take back control.” But the nation in question is not Britain, it is England.
I don't think immigration would halt if the UK enters a depression. With EU citizens in the UK the unemployment rate is 20%. It is worse here for this group than in their own countries, but the benefits system is the draw.
Bullshit!
Actually 14%, but still well above the UK-wide figure.
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Over my life, I've met French, Greeks, Poles, and Latvians who have expressed the view that occupying German soldiers behaved decently towards them or their parents. Of course, they weren't Jewish, and Nazi atrocities are well documented.
Can I say here and now that I am beyond stunned to hear that there are Poles and Latvians who take that attitude.
Nazis put Jews were at the bottom of the racial pile, but Poles and Latvians as Slavs were scarcely higher and still considered untermenschen. Considering they were all dispossessed, their religion and language was suppressed and a large minority were reduced to actual slavery the suggestion the Germans behaved decently is one I really cannot understand.
I would suggest two possible explanations;
1) The people you met were Nazi collaborators or descended from them or
2) They hated Communism so much (and the Soviets were just as brutal and oppressive as the Nazis, starting at Katyn, for far longer) that they forgot how vile the Nazis were.
It may perhaps be worth bringing up an old Polish joke:
A General is reviewing the soldiers of the Polish army. He orders a private to stand forward and asks, 'If you were attacked by a German and a Russian, which would you fight first.'
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Over my life, I've met French, Greeks, Poles, and Latvians who have expressed the view that occupying German soldiers behaved decently towards them or their parents. Of course, they weren't Jewish, and Nazi atrocities are well documented.
Is that not what I am saying. Be proud of the men. No what they achieved (the AfD guy's word) in the service of Nazism.
As Boris Johnson doesn't acknowledge a shred of responsibility for his actions and any positions he adopts, Mrs May needs to ignore him if she wants even a partially functional Brexit. Foreign Minister is a much more senior post than that charlatan deserves.
Osborne manages to unite Jacob Rees Mogg and Cat Smith in criticism of his May freezer comments
JRM "I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage. "I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness. "It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments. "I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things" http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith "Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film". "The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution. "So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Surely all the evidence is that Osborne never wanted to be Prime Minister -- that was the story put around under Cameron, and when Cameron went, Osborne never stood. If Osborne is frustrated, it is because his man lost; if he bears a grudge, it is surely because of the way Theresa May sacked him in public.
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Over my life, I've met French, Greeks, Poles, and Latvians who have expressed the view that occupying German soldiers behaved decently towards them or their parents. Of course, they weren't Jewish, and Nazi atrocities are well documented.
Can I say here and now that I am beyond stunned to hear that there are Poles and Latvians who take that attitude.
Nazis put Jews were at the bottom of the racial pile, but Poles and Latvians as Slavs were scarcely higher and still considered untermenschen. Considering they were all dispossessed, their religion and language was suppressed and a large minority were reduced to actual slavery the suggestion the Germans behaved decently is one I really cannot understand.
I would suggest two possible explanations;
1) The people you met were Nazi collaborators or descended from them or
2) They hated Communism so much (and the Soviets were just as brutal and oppressive as the Nazis, starting at Katyn, for far longer) that they forgot how vile the Nazis were.
It may perhaps be worth bringing up an old Polish joke:
A General is reviewing the soldiers of the Polish army. He orders a private to stand forward and asks, 'If you were attacked by a German and a Russian, which would you fight first.'
'The German sir,' replied the private.
'Why so definite?' asked the General.
'Business before pleasure,' came the reply.
1) Possible (actually, undoubtedly true in the case of one Latvian).
2) True. The Soviets occupied them for far longer, and the behaviour of the Red Army in 1939-40 and 1944-45 was bestial.
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
Maybe proud is too strong, but the vast majority of them weren't evil.
That got me thinking too. But, even for the honorable, good men who fought bravely, should you be proud of being duped into fighting for an evil regime. I think not.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Over my life, I've met French, Greeks, Poles, and Latvians who have expressed the view that occupying German soldiers behaved decently towards them or their parents. Of course, they weren't Jewish, and Nazi atrocities are well documented.
Can I say here and now that I am beyond stunned to hear that there are Poles and Latvians who take that attitude.
Nazis put Jews were at the bottom of the racial pile, but Poles and Latvians as Slavs were scarcely higher and still considered untermenschen. Considering they were all dispossessed, their religion and language was suppressed and a large minority were reduced to actual slavery the suggestion the Germans behaved decently is one I really cannot understand.
I would suggest two possible explanations;
1) The people you met were Nazi collaborators or descended from them or
2) They hated Communism so much (and the Soviets were just as brutal and oppressive as the Nazis, starting at Katyn, for far longer) that they forgot how vile the Nazis were.
It may perhaps be worth bringing up an old Polish joke:
A General is reviewing the soldiers of the Polish army. He orders a private to stand forward and asks, 'If you were attacked by a German and a Russian, which would you fight first.'
'The German sir,' replied the private.
'Why so definite?' asked the General.
'Business before pleasure,' came the reply.
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
One should always stand up for oneself, but there are more productive things to do with one's life than pursuing grudges. It's not as if Osborne has nothing to look forward to; he's a multi-millionaire earning megabucks.
Indeed, contrast Cameron who is far more at ease in his own skin and has already moved on
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Surely all the evidence is that Osborne never wanted to be Prime Minister -- that was the story put around under Cameron, and when Cameron went, Osborne never stood. If Osborne is frustrated, it is because his man lost; if he bears a grudge, it is surely because of the way Theresa May sacked him in public.
Ozzy's attitude is probably well summed up here:
Osborne knows he could easily have been a contender for the Tory leadership, but didn’t run in 2005 or in 2016 at least partly because he was self-aware enough to understand that he wasn’t sufficiently well-liked to win. Rather like Hillary Clinton, whose new memoir seethes with frustration, Osborne is now in the grim position of watching arguably less able but more popular rivals make a hash of things. And we all know how frustrating that feels.
Doubt Bob Stewart would make a statement to that effect if it was not true. He should have gone further and named the teacher in the HOC
He wasnt there so how is he so 100% sure it happened like that? And using the HOC for personal vendettas (justified or otherwise) would be even more shocking
Well, he has first-hand evidence from someone well-known to him and whose reliability as a witness he is very well-placed to judge, which is pretty much as good as evidence gets. You on the other hand are prepared to make the judgment "It sounds like bullshit to me" on the strength of no evidence at all. But I expect you had a really strong hunch about it. Like you did about Hillary.
This brilliant YouTube clip will need a sequel next week after Theresa's raid on the Florentines. You could grow an enormous shrubbery for £60bn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTHYeuFayI
As Boris Johnson doesn't acknowledge a shred of responsibility for his actions and any positions he adopts, Mrs May needs to ignore him if she wants even a partially functional Brexit. Foreign Minister is a much more senior post than that charlatan deserves.
I always thought Johnson would be a good Party Chairman. But he had to be given a Great Office of State for political reasons and realistically the FO was a much better choice for him than the Home Office, Justice or God forbid, the Treasury.
If he does walk out, who are the likely replacements? It surely has to be a Leaver if Party discipline is to be maintained. Not Gove - if even Fox considers him too hawkish, there is something wrong, and he has neither tact nor common sense. Leadsom would be a fiasco. Fox has the knowledge but not the character. Rudd is a Remainer. Would Priti Patel perhaps be a good outside bet? She would appear to tick most of the necessary boxes and has the advantage of being able to pass for vaguely sane.
They say you can tell the quality of a man by his enemies. That the loopier Leavers hate George Osborne with a passion speaks very well of him.
He's a threat. That's all.
He wouldn't be a threat if he wasn't making points they can't answer.
That's the driving spirit behind the other current hobby horse of the loopier Leavers, the perceived Remain bias of the media. If they could answer the questions posed, they wouldn't have anything to rage about.
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
Did he have any reason for respecting the Germans? Despite being shut in a forced labour camp?
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
They say you can tell the quality of a man by his enemies. That the loopier Leavers hate George Osborne with a passion speaks very well of him.
And yet today I find myself, much to my astonishment, in at least partial agreement with Cat Smith. True she mars her response by obsessing inanely and needlessly about gender issues, but she is quite right that inciting violence against politicians is abominable, and I have said that consistently no matter who it is directed against - even Corbyn, much though I dislike him.
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
Did he have any reason for respecting the Germans? Despite being shut in a forced labour camp?
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
He thought the Germans were well organised, knew what they wanted and knew how to get what they wanted. The Russians were simply brutal in his opinion.
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
What is a successful Brexit? For 43% of the country in this week's ORB (enough to give Boris a small majority) it is a Brexit which ends free movement as the priority above even free trade with the EU and avoids vast repayments to Brussels.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
With all due respect Mr Johnson's tardy arrival and Mrs May's no-show have not gone unnoticed. The emergency package has also been described as inadequate.
I suggest Mr Johnson would be well advised to displace Mrs May pretty damn quickly if that is his plan. Immigration and the size of the divorce bill will be the least of our worries if we fall off the Brexit cliff.
little englander
Macron is also getting pasted in France for a slow response
1) Possible (actually, undoubtedly true in the case of one Latvian).
2) True. The Soviets occupied them for far longer, and the behaviour of the Red Army in 1939-40 and 1944-45 was bestial.
They had already been invaded by the Soviets in 1920 and only stopped them at the gates of Warsaw. Prior to that the Russians had made regular attempts of varying success to destroy any Polish state. There was never any love lost between them.
However Theresa has to be careful with this speech... The fact she is delivering it away from the UK means there will be a "window" of opportunity while she is out of the country for the Tory Party to move against here.
She might fly back in to Heathrow to find she's out of a job if she's not careful...
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
Did he have any reason for respecting the Germans? Despite being shut in a forced labour camp?
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
He thought the Germans were well organised, knew what they wanted and knew how to get what they wanted. The Russians were simply brutal in his opinion.
Well, with due respect to your friend's opinions to which he is given his past fully entitled, I am a bit taken aback to find that it was the organisation and efficiency of the Germans he admires given that it allowed them to kill roughly five times as many Poles as the Soviets did, with the aim of wiping them all out or reducing hem to slavery.
It seems to me a strange way of looking at things.
Or does he dislike them but still have an admiration for the way they went about things? Which would be a different matter.
They say you can tell the quality of a man by his enemies. That the loopier Leavers hate George Osborne with a passion speaks very well of him.
The thing is, almost everyone thinks poorly of him, on right and left.
And, you would have thought, on the Leave and Remain sides. I can understand in principle that there are people incapable of distinguishing between a master of satire and an irritating little wazzock, but what flummoxes me is the assiduous brown-nosing by card-carrying Remainers of the twat who did as much as any one other individual to ensure the result we got.
Brexit is, in a sense, a misnomer. There are five distinct parts of the UK: Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the global metropolis that is Greater London, and what the veteran campaigner for democratic reform Anthony Barnett, in his excellent new book The Lure of Greatness, calls England-without-London.* In three of these parts—Scotland, Northern Ireland, and London—Brexit was soundly rejected in last year’s referendum. Wales voted narrowly in favor of Brexit. But in England-without-London Brexit was triumphant, winning by almost 11 percent. It was moreover a classic nationalist revolt in that the support for Brexit in non-metropolitan England cut across the supposedly rigid divides of North and South, rich and poor. Every single region of England-without-London voted to leave the EU, from the Cotswolds to Cumbria, from the green and pleasant hills to the scarred old mining valleys. This was a genuine nationalist uprising, a nation transcending social class and geographical divisions to rally behind the cry of “Take back control.” But the nation in question is not Britain, it is England.
Fintan O'Toole understands the people who live around the Malone Road, who vote Alliance or Green, who work for Queens University, or a variety of Quangos.
He doesn't understand the people on Sandy Row, the Falls, Ballymena, or South Armagh, whose views about national identity are much the same as those of the inhabitants of England-Without-London.
They say you can tell the quality of a man by his enemies. That the loopier Leavers hate George Osborne with a passion speaks very well of him.
The thing is, almost everyone thinks poorly of him, on right and left.
Yes, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Cat Smith: all the titans.
I thought he had an approval rating of 11%, just before the Brexit vote. That's on a par with Tony Blair.
You wouldn't expect the man who delivered the hard-nosed policies of austerity to be resoundingly popular. That's why Theresa abandoned them in a trice - a desperate attempt to be loved.
Boris does not want to get too involved in Brexit, he is quite happy for May and Davis to take the can for that and any compromises made. He will have his red lines of a 2 year transition period and maximum payments to the EU though so he can take over in 2019 and call a general election in 2020 contrasting his support for ending free movement and a minimal transition period with Labour's
Surely Mr Johnson would not put personal ambition ahead of a successful Brexit? If on the other hand you have already rumbled his wizard wheeze it must have been pretty transparent. Anyway shouldn't he be busy looking after the displaced and homeless of the Caribbean?
What is a successful Brexit? For 43% of the country in this week's ORB (enough to give Boris a small majority) it is a Brexit which ends free movement as the priority above even free trade with the EU and avoids vast repayments to Brussels.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
With all due respect Mr Johnson's tardy arrival and Mrs May's no-show have not gone unnoticed. The emergency package has also been described as inadequate.
I suggest Mr Johnson would be well advised to displace Mrs May pretty damn quickly if that is his plan. Immigration and the size of the divorce bill will be the least of our worries if we fall off the Brexit cliff.
The British Overseas Territories do extremely well out of British rule.
We subsidise them massively so that our rich can park their ill-gotten, undeclared money.
I don't think immigration would halt if the UK enters a depression. With EU citizens in the UK the unemployment rate is 20%. It is worse here for this group than in their own countries, but the benefits system is the draw.
You know, of course, that there was net immigration from the UK until the mid 1980s. It was is becoming an economic success under Thatcher that reversed the outflow of people from the uk.
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
Did he have any reason for respecting the Germans? Despite being shut in a forced labour camp?
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
He thought the Germans were well organised, knew what they wanted and knew how to get what they wanted. The Russians were simply brutal in his opinion.
Well, with due respect to your friend's opinions to which he is given his past fully entitled, I am a bit taken aback to find that it was the organisation and efficiency of the Germans he admires given that it allowed them to kill roughly five times as many Poles as the Soviets did, with the aim of wiping them all out or reducing hem to slavery.
It seems to me a strange way of looking at things.
Or does he dislike them but still have an admiration for the way they went about things? Which would be a different matter.
I guess the last of your suggestions. I should say he was a somewhat eccentric and difficult character. Which is also understandable, given what he went through.
Brexit is, in a sense, a misnomer. There are five distinct parts of the UK: Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the global metropolis that is Greater London, and what the veteran campaigner for democratic reform Anthony Barnett, in his excellent new book The Lure of Greatness, calls England-without-London.* In three of these parts—Scotland, Northern Ireland, and London—Brexit was soundly rejected in last year’s referendum. Wales voted narrowly in favor of Brexit. But in England-without-London Brexit was triumphant, winning by almost 11 percent. It was moreover a classic nationalist revolt in that the support for Brexit in non-metropolitan England cut across the supposedly rigid divides of North and South, rich and poor. Every single region of England-without-London voted to leave the EU, from the Cotswolds to Cumbria, from the green and pleasant hills to the scarred old mining valleys. This was a genuine nationalist uprising, a nation transcending social class and geographical divisions to rally behind the cry of “Take back control.” But the nation in question is not Britain, it is England.
Fintan O'Toole understands the people who live around the Malone Road, who vote Alliance or Green, who work for Queens University, or a variety of Quangos.
He doesn't understand the people on Sandy Row, the Falls, Ballymena, or South Armagh, whose views about national identity are much the same as those of the inhabitants of England-Without-London.
In addition, his analysis is very much slicing the facts to fit his narrative, rather than anything else. If he were focused on a story about Brexit in Wales, I am sure he'd slice and dice the vote to fit his Wales narrative, rather than airily dismissing it as 'Wales voted narrowly in favor of Brexit." He might as easily have said "The UK voted narrowly in favor of Brexit".
I knew a Pole who survived both Soviet and German work camps before and after the collapse of their pact. He respected the Germans but not the Russians, but obviously wanted neither experience, as they were both grim.
Did he have any reason for respecting the Germans? Despite being shut in a forced labour camp?
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
He thought the Germans were well organised, knew what they wanted and knew how to get what they wanted. The Russians were simply brutal in his opinion.
Well, with due respect to your friend's opinions to which he is given his past fully entitled, I am a bit taken aback to find that it was the organisation and efficiency of the Germans he admires given that it allowed them to kill roughly five times as many Poles as the Soviets did, with the aim of wiping them all out or reducing hem to slavery.
It seems to me a strange way of looking at things.
Or does he dislike them but still have an admiration for the way they went about things? Which would be a different matter.
I guess the last of your suggestions. I should say he was a somewhat eccentric and difficult character. Which is also understandable, given what he went through.
I think it must be quite a common view, because I've heard it too. The red army were really the dregs of society I think. Did things like pulling taps out of the wall so they could take the running water away with them.
Comments
Full quote: "If the French can be rightly proud of their emperor, and the British of Nelson and Churchill, then we have the right to be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars."
https://twitter.com/MiriamElder/status/908369474536996866
https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/908369794797273093
JRM
"I admired George Osborne as chancellor ... he is an able and highly intelligent man who is descending into worse bitterness and bile than Ted Heath," said the Conservative backbencher, who was recently embroiled in controversy over his comments on abortion and gay marriage.
"I wouldn't have thought any sensible politician would want to take on the Ted Heath role model of decades of bitterness.
"It's sad that he should be thinking like this, should be speaking like this, [and that] a man of his ability should be demeaning and disgracing himself with these sorts of comments.
"I feel sorry for him. It must be a difficult time for him if he is reduced to saying these sorts of things"
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hes-disgraced-himself-jacob-rees-mogg-attacks-george-osborne-pm-freezer-comments-1639419
Smith
"Smith also highlighted Osborne's language, including comparing "the prime minister to the living dead in a second-rate horror film".
"The reason I raise this is because violence against women is a huge problem in this country," she said. "Two women a week are killed by their partner or former partner and rape continues to be a crime which is underreported and [it] is very hard to seek a successful prosecution.
"So I think we need to acknowledge as a house that we have a problem in this country with violence against women, which isn't helped when senior journalists, commentators, or politicians use language such as the language I've just referred to [to] refer to female members of this house."
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/george-osborne-has-been-criticised-in-parliament-for?utm_term=.ycaJeqmeV#.ou5Roj3o7
Meanwhile the former chancellor has a new job as a professor at Manchester University
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/14/house-of-lords-should-be-half-the-size-says-commons-speaker-john-bercow?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1505403230
History's history. We should happily take the good bits to suit us, and most assuredly we should make great efforts to learn from the all of bad bits.
Proud of the men, yes; maybe even of their sacrifice; but not of their achievements in the service of evil.
Cameron got to be PM.
Osborne thought he might be, but then came the revolution and he never had his chance.
Boris is in the Caribbean at the moment where the UK has provided £25 million to help it recover from the hurricane
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4877888/Here-comes-Boris-Foreign-Secretary-arrives-Caribbean.html
I suggest Mr Johnson would be well advised to displace Mrs May pretty damn quickly if that is his plan. Immigration and the size of the divorce bill will be the least of our worries if we fall off the Brexit cliff.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/09/28/brexits-irish-question/
Brexit is, in a sense, a misnomer. There are five distinct parts of the UK: Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the global metropolis that is Greater London, and what the veteran campaigner for democratic reform Anthony Barnett, in his excellent new book The Lure of Greatness, calls England-without-London.* In three of these parts—Scotland, Northern Ireland, and London—Brexit was soundly rejected in last year’s referendum. Wales voted narrowly in favor of Brexit. But in England-without-London Brexit was triumphant, winning by almost 11 percent. It was moreover a classic nationalist revolt in that the support for Brexit in non-metropolitan England cut across the supposedly rigid divides of North and South, rich and poor. Every single region of England-without-London voted to leave the EU, from the Cotswolds to Cumbria, from the green and pleasant hills to the scarred old mining valleys. This was a genuine nationalist uprising, a nation transcending social class and geographical divisions to rally behind the cry of “Take back control.” But the nation in question is not Britain, it is England.
Nazis put Jews were at the bottom of the racial pile, but Poles and Latvians as Slavs were scarcely higher and still considered untermenschen. Considering they were all dispossessed, their religion and language was suppressed and a large minority were reduced to actual slavery the suggestion the Germans behaved decently is one I really cannot understand.
I would suggest two possible explanations;
1) The people you met were Nazi collaborators or descended from them or
2) They hated Communism so much (and the Soviets were just as brutal and oppressive as the Nazis, starting at Katyn, for far longer) that they forgot how vile the Nazis were.
It may perhaps be worth bringing up an old Polish joke:
A General is reviewing the soldiers of the Polish army. He orders a private to stand forward and asks, 'If you were attacked by a German and a Russian, which would you fight first.'
'The German sir,' replied the private.
'Why so definite?' asked the General.
'Business before pleasure,' came the reply.
2) True. The Soviets occupied them for far longer, and the behaviour of the Red Army in 1939-40 and 1944-45 was bestial.
Osborne knows he could easily have been a contender for the Tory leadership, but didn’t run in 2005 or in 2016 at least partly because he was self-aware enough to understand that he wasn’t sufficiently well-liked to win. Rather like Hillary Clinton, whose new memoir seethes with frustration, Osborne is now in the grim position of watching arguably less able but more popular rivals make a hash of things. And we all know how frustrating that feels.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/14/george-osborne-editor-politician
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTHYeuFayI
If he does walk out, who are the likely replacements? It surely has to be a Leaver if Party discipline is to be maintained. Not Gove - if even Fox considers him too hawkish, there is something wrong, and he has neither tact nor common sense. Leadsom would be a fiasco. Fox has the knowledge but not the character. Rudd is a Remainer. Would Priti Patel perhaps be a good outside bet? She would appear to tick most of the necessary boxes and has the advantage of being able to pass for vaguely sane.
That's the driving spirit behind the other current hobby horse of the loopier Leavers, the perceived Remain bias of the media. If they could answer the questions posed, they wouldn't have anything to rage about.
I can fully understand why he would hate the Russians, but they seem to me to be different questions.
Macron is also getting pasted in France for a slow response
it's the standard press story atm
NEW THREAD
However Theresa has to be careful with this speech... The fact she is delivering it away from the UK means there will be a "window" of opportunity while she is out of the country for the Tory Party to move against here.
She might fly back in to Heathrow to find she's out of a job if she's not careful...
It seems to me a strange way of looking at things.
Or does he dislike them but still have an admiration for the way they went about things? Which would be a different matter.
He doesn't understand the people on Sandy Row, the Falls, Ballymena, or South Armagh, whose views about national identity are much the same as those of the inhabitants of England-Without-London.