I hope there's no silliness from both sides. I.e. no crass postings of joy, and no calls for "full state funeral", etc. A state funeral would certainly become the focus for disruption by the hard left. I hope the Tory right can see that and avoid it to preserve her dignity.
She's a defining point. There are a lot of myths that grew up around her (not least propagated by her and her supporters) but well, the following era was referred to as the post-Thatcherite consensus and a lot of modern politicians are judged by how Thatcherite they are. Tells you about her legacy in British politics.
Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.
Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.
Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.
I hope there's no silliness from both sides. I.e. no crass postings of joy, and no calls for "full state funeral", etc. A state funeral would certainly become the focus for disruption by the hard left. I hope the Tory right can see that and avoid it to preserve her dignity.
So we know what the black arts beloved of the Labourites would do. Have a full state funeral, then watch how the hard left disrupts it in order for short term electoral gain. Come to think of it, the Tories should go for it!
Wasn't a state funeral planned (or at least offered) for Thatcher? If so, presumably in about 7-10 days time.
From a political betting point of view, her death shouldn't have many direct effects - hardly anyone is likely to change or gain an opnion they didn't have before - but it could have an indirect impact if someone senior in one or other of the parties says or does something particularly tasteless or stupid.
Remembering that and remembering some of the less savoury comments when Michael Foot died Mike's clear statement of fact that she was Britain’s first woman PM seems apt.
"Downing Street said Lady Thatcher would be accorded the same status of funeral as the Queen Mother and Princess Diana, but will not lie in state, in accordance with her own wishes."
Of course she should have the same status of funeral. Churchill got one, so should Maggie.
As for the Manchester derby - a minute's applause should cover all bases?
Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.
Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.
Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.
Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.
When someone dies, it's always sad for relatives and friends. But she has lived her life, when you are old and suffering, it's probably better than dragging around another 5 years in and out hospitals.
I really can't remember her time in office, to be honest. It seems hard to imagine a PM who actually had strong convictions.
My first child was born three days before she stepped down. I remember a lot about that period. Left school, went to university, lived abroad, got married, had a kid, bought my first place, worked, went on the dole and basically started to grow up. All against a background of cold war, confrontation, big strikes, IRA bombs, football violence, closing factories, rising living standards, city boom, aspiration and opportunity. It was an extraordinary time and fantastic to live through in so many ways. And despite all the problems, the world seemed to be a much easier place to understand - probably because it was! Without doubt, I was one of the beneficiaries of Thatcherism.
RIP Margaret Thatcher - a great role model for clever women who want to reach the top on merit not all women short lists and quotas. Proof also that you can be PM without an Oxford PPE degree.
Head and shoulders above the pygmies who removed her into office.
Guardian mods not lifting a finger, even for "I hope that Old C-nt rots in the bowels of hell !". Nice.
To quote the great she-elephant, you appear to be giving them the oxygen of publicity. Of course I understand that's a requisite if one thinks one needs vast mounts of sanctimonious outrage to mourn appropriately.
Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.
Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.
Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.
Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.
Kinnock played a pretty big role in terms of their influence in the Labour Party.
I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.
I agree, and could have a polarising effect on the country. Who would want to associate themselves with people who wish to 'dance on the grave' of the dead. Miliband has to be careful with this and needs to exercise control over the more volatile members of his party.
Personally I loathed what she did to the proud mining communities, but Scargill was equally to blame. She was certainly a politician of substance though, a woman of great conviction. The pygmies we have now pale into significance by comparison.
@frasernelson: I was once introduced to Margaret Thatcher as a “Scottish Tory”. Her response was a rather brilliant one-liner: “Ah, so you’re the one.” RIP
A very interesting interview with Lord Ashdown currently on Radio 5. He said something like: I opposed many of the things she did, but when I went to Bosnia I found myself doing the very things I opposed, for instance liberalising the economy.
To be fair to Ed, I'm sure he would... I was going to link to the guido page with Ed next to the chap with the Thatcher-dancing-on-graves t-shirt, but he's taken his whole site down and put up a picture and RIP message.
Among the many great things the blessed St Margaret did, let us not also forget she did a real job before entering politics. We can be ever thankful for Mr Whippy style ice cream! RIP.
Very saddened to hear the news of Mrs Thatcher's passing, though she has been ill for quite a long time now. I suspect that she would have looked upon this as a blessing, but that doesn't usually make things any easier for those loved ones she leaves behind. The country owes her a very deep debt of gratitude for her courageous leadership and her determination to set the country right. I do hope that everyone will conduct themselves appropriately in the coming days in a spirit of decency and respect. To quote Kenneth Baker upon her departure from Downing Street, 'We shall not see her like again.'
Interesting to see Brown ahead of Cameron on 'capable'.
It's a bit of a fake question as it doesn't ask readers to rank the PMs; it asks for 'most' capable. So many left-wingers will instinctively go for Brown or Blair, and of the two, Brown. By contrast, many right-wingers will have already used their vote on Thatcher. I suspect that if you included Wilson and Attlee, Brown would drop straight to the bottom.
Surely a reason to applaud her? Never understood why so many got so upset about separate development. Especially when other far more vile regimes merited not a squeak.
Guess RSA ticked all the right boxes: white, Christian, right wing. Had they been black, Muslim, left wing no one would have cared. Guess RSA ticked all the boxes for those with white guilt. Happily Maggie had no such delusions, though she did sell out the Rhodies.
Sorry it took such a sad event to lure you out, AHM, but now that you have seen a bit of the sunlight again, perhaps you can grace us with your presence more regularly?
A very interesting interview with Lord Ashdown currently on Radio 5. He said something like: I opposed many of the things she did, but when I went to Bosnia I found myself doing the very things I opposed, for instance liberalising the economy.
This is the extraordinary paradox. Almost every single one of those who hate her now support all her main policies, which were controversial at the time but now are universally accepted in the Western world, even by the left. No-one now would dream of disagreeing with privatisation of telecoms, the ending of subsidies for loss-making industries, or the banning of the closed shop. It must be precisely because she was so right that she was so reviled by some; there is no other possible explanation.
Latin American military dictatorships except for Pinochet didn't last very long after The Falklands War. Military Rule in Chile lasted until 1990. Thatcher hastened the reintroduction of democratic regimes in South America.
Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.
Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.
Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.
Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.
There's a little bit of mythmaking there. The sort of blue-print for how to do it was laid down in Heath's time (but he couldn't carry it through) and she started her career being embarrassingly defeated by unions, and ended it with ministers being frustrated by her being more cautious holding them back from taking on the docker's union etc.
Of course between that here employment reforms (tying the Trade Union fighting along with the shift away from full employment etc) were probably the biggest changes she made.
Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.
Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.
Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.
Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.
Kinnock played a pretty big role in terms of their influence in the Labour Party.
Indeed. Kinnock helped make Labour re-electable, though not with himself as leader. Thatcher, however, saw to it that Labour could never be electable if it didn't move on and accept her new consensus (as Churchill, Eden and Macmillan had to largely accept Attlee's consensus). Had Labour gone down a far-left route in defence of a pre-1979 settlement, it's highly likely that the SDP or Alliance would have supplanted them.
Peter the Punter: Thank you for your kind words. I'm still a faithful reader of the blog, though I rarely comment any more. To be honest, trying to defend this coalition government (as I would feel compelled to do as a loyal Tory) is such an abysmal thought that I find it easier to remain silent. Perhaps I shall be moved to be more vocal as the election nears...
Comments
I'm not going to say about how people should or shouldn't behave until it happens and they do, or don't... that's all...
I hope there's no silliness from both sides. I.e. no crass postings of joy, and no calls for "full state funeral", etc. A state funeral would certainly become the focus for disruption by the hard left. I hope the Tory right can see that and avoid it to preserve her dignity.
Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.
UKIP boost for the May elections?
I said to OGH when I broke this news to him, it might be wise to close the internet for a month.
A truly great woman who never for one minute deserved the vitriol that was (and will now be) heaped upon her.
RIP.
RT @GazTheJourno: The National Union of Students RT @JoshDixonTweets: Delegates at #nusnc13 just applauded the news of Thatchers death. Shameful.
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2819/Most-capablemost-likeable-Prime-Minister.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/apr/08/miliband-clegg-local-elections-cameron-madrid?commentpage=3
Guardian mods not lifting a finger, even for "I hope that Old C-nt rots in the bowels of hell !". Nice.
From a political betting point of view, her death shouldn't have many direct effects - hardly anyone is likely to change or gain an opnion they didn't have before - but it could have an indirect impact if someone senior in one or other of the parties says or does something particularly tasteless or stupid.
I really can't remember her time in office, to be honest. It seems hard to imagine a PM who actually had strong convictions.
We need you now as much as we did in 1979.
Remembering that and remembering some of the less savoury comments when Michael Foot died Mike's clear statement of fact that she was Britain’s first woman PM seems apt.
"Downing Street said Lady Thatcher would be accorded the same status of funeral as the Queen Mother and Princess Diana, but will not lie in state, in accordance with her own wishes."
Of course she should have the same status of funeral. Churchill got one, so should Maggie.
As for the Manchester derby - a minute's applause should cover all bases?
"I shall never forget and I'll never forgive"
Her own words on those Tories who threw her out.
And a perfect epitaph in my opinion.
Head and shoulders above the pygmies who removed her into office.
Dr. Parma, indeed. The problem with increasing life expectancy is that we get decades more in a frail state, not as a fit twentysomething.
Of course I understand that's a requisite if one thinks one needs vast mounts of sanctimonious outrage to mourn appropriately.
"Great on foreign policy"
Are we including her appeasement and encouragement of apartheid?
Would Ed condemn such behaviour?
Personally I loathed what she did to the proud mining communities, but Scargill was equally to blame. She was certainly a politician of substance though, a woman of great conviction. The pygmies we have now pale into significance by comparison.
RIP.
Not a time for celebration, but a time to remember the destruction the wretched woman unleashed on millions.
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams will hold a news conference at 3pm in Belfast to discuss the death of Margaret Thatcher.
I was going to link to the guido page with Ed next to the chap with the Thatcher-dancing-on-graves t-shirt, but he's taken his whole site down and put up a picture and RIP message.
RIP.
But I am grateful that my Twitter feed isn't polluted by too much nastiness. Useful to prune but not having to do much as most people are behaving.
Guess RSA ticked all the right boxes: white, Christian, right wing. Had they been black, Muslim, left wing no one would have cared. Guess RSA ticked all the boxes for those with white guilt.
Happily Maggie had no such delusions, though she did sell out the Rhodies.
She changed the political weather not just for her time but for after she'd gone. A political giant, whatever your views.
Good grief - a Matlock sighting!
Sorry it took such a sad event to lure you out, AHM, but now that you have seen a bit of the sunlight again, perhaps you can grace us with your presence more regularly?
As Davina would say, "Let's have a look at your best bits." To start with "No sanctions - Nelson Mandela is a terrorist."
Fairly adroitly done.
There's a little bit of mythmaking there. The sort of blue-print for how to do it was laid down in Heath's time (but he couldn't carry it through) and she started her career being embarrassingly defeated by unions, and ended it with ministers being frustrated by her being more cautious holding them back from taking on the docker's union etc.
Of course between that here employment reforms (tying the Trade Union fighting along with the shift away from full employment etc) were probably the biggest changes she made.
Greatest PM of my life time.