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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Margeret Thatcher (1925 – 2013) – Britain’s first woman PM

SystemSystem Posts: 12,058
edited April 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Margeret Thatcher (1925 – 2013) – Britain’s first woman PM

Mrs Thatcher dies ( (born 13 October 1925 – died 8 April 2013) twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/st…

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  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    FPT:

    I'm not going to say about how people should or shouldn't behave until it happens and they do, or don't... that's all...
  • She set the benchmark for all Tory leaders and PMs that followed her.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    But truly a great woman. Cameron and Miliband and Clegg alike have not 1/10 of the vision or strength of character as her.
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    Sad to hear this.

    I hope there's no silliness from both sides. I.e. no crass postings of joy, and no calls for "full state funeral", etc. A state funeral would certainly become the focus for disruption by the hard left. I hope the Tory right can see that and avoid it to preserve her dignity.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758

    She set the benchmark for all Tory leaders and PMs that followed her.

    None of which have got even close....
  • At last
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    A great lady and I'd rather be dead than live for years not knowing who I'd been. RIP.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    She changed this country forever. Personally I owe her a great deal.

    Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Very sad to hear of the death of Margaret Thatcher, a great patriotic lady.' farage

    UKIP boost for the May elections?
  • I wonder when the next PM will be a woman - great leader for her times. Some decorum from the Left will be welcome.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    She changed this country forever. Personally I owe her a great deal.

    Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.

    I've turned off Twitter as the grave-dancing will be revolting. Such a pity that common decency leaves the room at such times.
  • She changed this country forever. Personally I owe her a great deal.

    Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.

    Well said.

    I said to OGH when I broke this news to him, it might be wise to close the internet for a month.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    She changed this country forever. Personally I owe her a great deal.

    Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.

    SO I'm afraid you were 1 minute too late with that plea :disgust:
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @TomMcArthur: Twitter, show a bit of class and remember these words: “I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,545
    edited April 2013
    RIP.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    "It was with great sadness that l learned of Lady Thatcher’s death. We've lost a great leader, a great Prime Minister and a great Briton" no10
  • Bob_SykesBob_Sykes Posts: 11
    She saved our nation from ruin and in transforming Britain into what it is today, she gave us back our self-respect.

    A truly great woman who never for one minute deserved the vitriol that was (and will now be) heaped upon her.

    RIP.
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    @Plato - be careful of using a quote about not "rejoicing" at the death of an enemy, given Thatcher's quote on that particular issue...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ho hum - immaturity displays itself in spades. These people weren't even alive when she was PM

    RT @GazTheJourno: The National Union of Students RT @JoshDixonTweets: Delegates at #nusnc13 just applauded the news of Thatchers death. Shameful.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    "All attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail."
    Plato said:

    RT @TomMcArthur: Twitter, show a bit of class and remember these words: “I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.”

    For in death, if not in life, all men are equal.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Addio Margherita. RIP.
  • A remarkable woman. That the Britain before her looks so alien compared with the Britain after her says it all.

    She changed this country forever. Personally I owe her a great deal.

    Please God let one and all maintain dignity over the coming weeks.

    Very well said SO.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    She's a defining point. There are a lot of myths that grew up around her (not least propagated by her and her supporters) but well, the following era was referred to as the post-Thatcherite consensus and a lot of modern politicians are judged by how Thatcherite they are. Tells you about her legacy in British politics.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.

  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    MBoy said:

    Sad to hear this.

    I hope there's no silliness from both sides. I.e. no crass postings of joy, and no calls for "full state funeral", etc. A state funeral would certainly become the focus for disruption by the hard left. I hope the Tory right can see that and avoid it to preserve her dignity.

    So we know what the black arts beloved of the Labourites would do. Have a full state funeral, then watch how the hard left disrupts it in order for short term electoral gain. Come to think of it, the Tories should go for it!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    Well Dave will have to grasp the thorny issue of a state funeral or not...
  • The passing of a great Statesman - always a poignant moment. She was a giant, whatever your political views.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Much glee being expressed here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/apr/08/miliband-clegg-local-elections-cameron-madrid?commentpage=3

    Guardian mods not lifting a finger, even for "I hope that Old C-nt rots in the bowels of hell !". Nice.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,594
    Wasn't a state funeral planned (or at least offered) for Thatcher? If so, presumably in about 7-10 days time.

    From a political betting point of view, her death shouldn't have many direct effects - hardly anyone is likely to change or gain an opnion they didn't have before - but it could have an indirect impact if someone senior in one or other of the parties says or does something particularly tasteless or stupid.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    RIP.

    I really can't remember her time in office, to be honest. It seems hard to imagine a PM who actually had strong convictions.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Now Labour HQ is probably blocking all twitter accounts of candidates standing in target divisions and obscuring facebook pages.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    Anorak said:

    Much glee being expressed here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/apr/08/miliband-clegg-local-elections-cameron-madrid?commentpage=3

    Guardian mods not lifting a finger, even for "I hope that Old C-nt rots in the bowels of hell !". Nice.

    Want to bet it will be the same with Saint Nelson?
  • RIP Maggie.

    We need you now as much as we did in 1979.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    Wasn't a state funeral planned (or at least offered) for Thatcher? If so, presumably in about 7-10 days time.

    Iirc rumoured but never really confirmed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,076
    Every man's death diminishes me. RIP. And no, I didn't like her, or what she stood for.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Rt Hon Dame M. Thatcher RIP a great loss sadly missed.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Peter_2 said:

    Want to bet it will be the same with Saint Nelson?

    Yeah, and then a bet on a three-legged horse.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    She was indesputably hugely controversial.

    Remembering that and remembering some of the less savoury comments when Michael Foot died Mike's clear statement of fact that she was Britain’s first woman PM seems apt.



  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @skysarahjane: RT @VMcAVSKY: Downing st - Lady #Thatcher will be accorded same status of funeral as queen mum and princess Diana
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RIP - best PM since WW2.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    Mr. P, if that's true it'd be something of a surprise, for me at least.
  • According to the Times, she's getting the same type of funeral as The Queen Mother and Princess Diana.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    First, and of course only woman PM. It doesn't look as though the second will be appointed any time soon, either.
  • Bob_SykesBob_Sykes Posts: 11
    edited April 2013
    Sorry tim, the issue has already been settled:

    "Downing Street said Lady Thatcher would be accorded the same status of funeral as the Queen Mother and Princess Diana, but will not lie in state, in accordance with her own wishes."

    Of course she should have the same status of funeral. Churchill got one, so should Maggie.

    As for the Manchester derby - a minute's applause should cover all bases?
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 352
    She saved this country though many still hate her for it. It was ever thus.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,594

    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.

    Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    When someone dies, it's always sad for relatives and friends. But she has lived her life, when you are old and suffering, it's probably better than dragging around another 5 years in and out hospitals.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'BREAKING: David Cameron cancels Madrid and Paris meetings today to return to UK following Baroness Thatcher death.' sunpolitics
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Politics as usual will be over for at least a week, possibly more like a month.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    RIP.

    I really can't remember her time in office, to be honest. It seems hard to imagine a PM who actually had strong convictions.

    My first child was born three days before she stepped down. I remember a lot about that period. Left school, went to university, lived abroad, got married, had a kid, bought my first place, worked, went on the dole and basically started to grow up. All against a background of cold war, confrontation, big strikes, IRA bombs, football violence, closing factories, rising living standards, city boom, aspiration and opportunity. It was an extraordinary time and fantastic to live through in so many ways. And despite all the problems, the world seemed to be a much easier place to understand - probably because it was! Without doubt, I was one of the beneficiaries of Thatcherism.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I've just added in header a chart showing polling on how modern PMs are rated.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796

    "I shall never forget and I'll never forgive"

    Her own words on those Tories who threw her out.

    And a perfect epitaph in my opinion.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.

    Ugh. You're probably right.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    RIP Margaret Thatcher - a great role model for clever women who want to reach the top on merit not all women short lists and quotas. Proof also that you can be PM without an Oxford PPE degree.

    Head and shoulders above the pygmies who removed her into office.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    She was the People's Premier and that is how she will remain in our hearts and minds forever.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    Mr. Slackbladder, I fear you may be right.

    Dr. Parma, indeed. The problem with increasing life expectancy is that we get decades more in a frail state, not as a fit twentysomething.
  • Have Sinn Fein said anything yet?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,531
    Anorak said:

    Much glee being expressed here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/apr/08/miliband-clegg-local-elections-cameron-madrid?commentpage=3

    Guardian mods not lifting a finger, even for "I hope that Old C-nt rots in the bowels of hell !". Nice.

    To quote the great she-elephant, you appear to be giving them the oxygen of publicity.
    Of course I understand that's a requisite if one thinks one needs vast mounts of sanctimonious outrage to mourn appropriately.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,402
    Interesting to see Brown ahead of Cameron on 'capable'.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.

    Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.

    Kinnock played a pretty big role in terms of their influence in the Labour Party.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    Mr. Observer, thanks. That was a very interesting post to read.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    @Tim.

    "Great on foreign policy"

    Are we including her appeasement and encouragement of apartheid?
  • Bob_SykesBob_Sykes Posts: 11

    I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.

    I hate to bring politics into it so quickly - but if the Left wishes to make an ass of itself by using her funeral as a "target", then so be it.

    Would Ed condemn such behaviour?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    BBC presenters all wearing black. At last some respect.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.

    I agree, and could have a polarising effect on the country. Who would want to associate themselves with people who wish to 'dance on the grave' of the dead. Miliband has to be careful with this and needs to exercise control over the more volatile members of his party.

    Personally I loathed what she did to the proud mining communities, but Scargill was equally to blame. She was certainly a politician of substance though, a woman of great conviction. The pygmies we have now pale into significance by comparison.

    RIP.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758

    Would Ed condemn such behaviour?
    To be fair to Ed, I'm sure he would...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    Does a state funeral mean a public holiday?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @frasernelson: I was once introduced to Margaret Thatcher as a “Scottish Tory”. Her response was a rather brilliant one-liner: “Ah, so you’re the one.” RIP
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Very sad to hear of death of Baroness Thatcher. Her memory will live long after the world has forgotten the grey suits of today's politics.' boris
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Roger said:


    "I shall never forget and I'll never forgive"

    Seems about right.

    Not a time for celebration, but a time to remember the destruction the wretched woman unleashed on millions.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758

    Does a state funeral mean a public holiday?

    Diana's was on a Saturday, so I'm guessing not.

  • Well some people are already reminding
    Bob_Sykes said:

    I hate to say it, but a state funeral will be just a huge target for a lot of people.

    I hate to bring politics into it so quickly - but if the Left wishes to make an ass of itself by using her funeral as a "target", then so be it.

    Would Ed condemn such behaviour?
    I suspect, Ed is going to be reminded about being photographed with a chap who wore a T Shirt planning to enjoy Lady Thatcher's death.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013

    Have Sinn Fein said anything yet?


    Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams will hold a news conference at 3pm in Belfast to discuss the death of Margaret Thatcher.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750

    Does a state funeral mean a public holiday?

    Ooh good point. Go for it Dave!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,545
    A very interesting interview with Lord Ashdown currently on Radio 5. He said something like: I opposed many of the things she did, but when I went to Bosnia I found myself doing the very things I opposed, for instance liberalising the economy.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2013


    Would Ed condemn such behaviour?
    To be fair to Ed, I'm sure he would...
    I was going to link to the guido page with Ed next to the chap with the Thatcher-dancing-on-graves t-shirt, but he's taken his whole site down and put up a picture and RIP message.
  • grahambc1grahambc1 Posts: 26
    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Of course unless that is the fascism in Chile under Pinochet her great friend
  • Among the many great things the blessed St Margaret did, let us not also forget she did a real job before entering politics. We can be ever thankful for Mr Whippy style ice cream!
    RIP.
  • Have Sinn Fein said anything yet?


    Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams will hold a news conference at 3pm in Belfast to discuss the death of Margaret Thatcher.
    Thanks Andrea.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    George Galloway being as classy as ever...
  • AHMatlockAHMatlock Posts: 15
    Very saddened to hear the news of Mrs Thatcher's passing, though she has been ill for quite a long time now. I suspect that she would have looked upon this as a blessing, but that doesn't usually make things any easier for those loved ones she leaves behind. The country owes her a very deep debt of gratitude for her courageous leadership and her determination to set the country right. I do hope that everyone will conduct themselves appropriately in the coming days in a spirit of decency and respect. To quote Kenneth Baker upon her departure from Downing Street, 'We shall not see her like again.'
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,594
    Jonathan said:

    Interesting to see Brown ahead of Cameron on 'capable'.

    It's a bit of a fake question as it doesn't ask readers to rank the PMs; it asks for 'most' capable. So many left-wingers will instinctively go for Brown or Blair, and of the two, Brown. By contrast, many right-wingers will have already used their vote on Thatcher. I suspect that if you included Wilson and Attlee, Brown would drop straight to the bottom.
  • It's like the 1980s just died.

    But I am grateful that my Twitter feed isn't polluted by too much nastiness. Useful to prune but not having to do much as most people are behaving.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    tim said:

    @Roger.

    No, she prolonged Apartheid.

    Surely a reason to applaud her? Never understood why so many got so upset about separate development. Especially when other far more vile regimes merited not a squeak.

    Guess RSA ticked all the right boxes: white, Christian, right wing. Had they been black, Muslim, left wing no one would have cared. Guess RSA ticked all the boxes for those with white guilt.
    Happily Maggie had no such delusions, though she did sell out the Rhodies.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Well said, SO.

    She changed the political weather not just for her time but for after she'd gone. A political giant, whatever your views.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,254
    edited April 2013
    @AHMatlock

    Good grief - a Matlock sighting!

    Sorry it took such a sad event to lure you out, AHM, but now that you have seen a bit of the sunlight again, perhaps you can grace us with your presence more regularly?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Details of Lady Thatcher's funeral plans to be published shortly, I'm told' shippers
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013

    A very interesting interview with Lord Ashdown currently on Radio 5. He said something like: I opposed many of the things she did, but when I went to Bosnia I found myself doing the very things I opposed, for instance liberalising the economy.

    This is the extraordinary paradox. Almost every single one of those who hate her now support all her main policies, which were controversial at the time but now are universally accepted in the Western world, even by the left. No-one now would dream of disagreeing with privatisation of telecoms, the ending of subsidies for loss-making industries, or the banning of the closed shop. It must be precisely because she was so right that she was so reviled by some; there is no other possible explanation.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Mark Steel

    As Davina would say, "Let's have a look at your best bits." To start with "No sanctions - Nelson Mandela is a terrorist."
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Clegg just saying she was a defining figure of modern politics.

    Fairly adroitly done.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Latin American military dictatorships except for Pinochet didn't last very long after The Falklands War. Military Rule in Chile lasted until 1990. Thatcher hastened the reintroduction of democratic regimes in South America.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    tim said:

    @Peter_2

    We're all aware what you are, no need to advertise your racism to a larger audience than usual.

    Boo hoo hoo. Now be a good boy and go and cry in the corner.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.

    Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.

    There's a little bit of mythmaking there. The sort of blue-print for how to do it was laid down in Heath's time (but he couldn't carry it through) and she started her career being embarrassingly defeated by unions, and ended it with ministers being frustrated by her being more cautious holding them back from taking on the docker's union etc.

    Of course between that here employment reforms (tying the Trade Union fighting along with the shift away from full employment etc) were probably the biggest changes she made.
  • RIP
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Must be some worried Lefties who fear that Thatcher is being buried at sea.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,594

    tim said:

    Great on foreign policy, fought fascism and took Britain into the single market.

    Not very impressive domestically, owed Tony Benn a great deal.

    Benn, Scargill, Hatton and all the other militant destroyers. One of her great achievements was to help kick-start the process that has made them utterly irrelevant.

    Didn't just "help kick-start" it but led and saw through the process. Trade Union reform was very much her initiative and by the end of her premiership, union bosses like Scargill and politicians who defended them such as Benn and Hatton were irrelevant. It was an uprising of middle England (and hence the nervousness that caused in Tory MPs) that precipitated her downfall as much as anything.

    Kinnock played a pretty big role in terms of their influence in the Labour Party.

    Indeed. Kinnock helped make Labour re-electable, though not with himself as leader. Thatcher, however, saw to it that Labour could never be electable if it didn't move on and accept her new consensus (as Churchill, Eden and Macmillan had to largely accept Attlee's consensus). Had Labour gone down a far-left route in defence of a pre-1979 settlement, it's highly likely that the SDP or Alliance would have supplanted them.
  • AHMatlockAHMatlock Posts: 15
    Peter the Punter: Thank you for your kind words. I'm still a faithful reader of the blog, though I rarely comment any more. To be honest, trying to defend this coalition government (as I would feel compelled to do as a loyal Tory) is such an abysmal thought that I find it easier to remain silent. Perhaps I shall be moved to be more vocal as the election nears...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RIP Mrs Thatcher

    Greatest PM of my life time.
This discussion has been closed.