May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
It's unbelievable isn't it. Constant neediness and playing to the hard right. Horrible.
And so utterly destructive. She is "leading" an utterly dysfunctional government and is herself taking decisions that actively undermine her own position and the UK's ability to negotiate a reasonable Brexit deal.
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
In any case, a large part of the Conservatives' problem was failure to get their vote out in full.
I'd agree with that.
The really important movement in conservative thinking since the election has been on austerity.
First the DUP deal, now the public sector pay cap.
Freed from the shackles of austerity, I suspect the conservatives think they can run a *very* different - and far more successful - election campaign.
Snip @foxinsoxuk The Tory reliance on call centres, bussed in activists, and Facebook adds circulating in a bubble are why they got it so wrong. David Herdsons Tuesday wobble from canvassing his own patch was the first real indication of what was to happen 2 days later. Street level intelligence and feedback was severely lacking.
Do find the use of call centres rather bewildering. Most young people don't have landlines/ don't answer their parents' (as they know it won't be for them), and block/ignore unknown numbers. It seems to be a way of ensuring you won't contact anyone under 40 at all.
Plenty of middle aged couples still have landlines not just pensioners and if you effectively gather data you can call mobiles too
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Were they? I remember posting just before polling day that Messina said there were more undecided than any election he had known and in the end most plumped for Labour
The eve of polling suggested the Conservatives were on course for 335-360 seats. It's not surprising the Conservatives and Labour believed it.
Yes and most of that was because of correcting raw data to suit 2015 turnout when 2017 turnout demographics were not the same, a practice pollsters have now stopped
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
Snip @foxinsoxuk The Tory reliance on call centres, bussed in activists, and Facebook adds circulating in a bubble are why they got it so wrong. David Herdsons Tuesday wobble from canvassing his own patch was the first real indication of what was to happen 2 days later. Street level intelligence and feedback was severely lacking.
Do find the use of call centres rather bewildering. Most young people don't have landlines/ don't answer their parents' (as they know it won't be for them), and block/ignore unknown numbers. It seems to be a way of ensuring you won't contact anyone under 40 at all.
Plenty of middle aged couples still have landlines not just pensioners and if you effectively gather data you can call mobiles too
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Were they? I remember posting just before polling day that Messina said there were more undecided than any election he had known and in the end most plumped for Labour
I remember you posting that! That, David Herdson's post and the contributions of Rochdale Pioneers made me doubt my own instincts (though not enough sadly). Maybe it is more accurate to say that politicians on both sides were surprised.
I think after 1970 it was the most surprising general election result of the last 50 years
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
If they do they are very stupid. After all, they've been saying since the referendum that we'd be a third-party country on Brexit and couldn't expect any special treatment. So why on earth should they be surprised, or see it as hostile, if we take them at their word and decide that their citizens have no more special rights here than citizens from any other country?
They will
Can you have a one way third country? That may be what they expect. Ćherry picking, if there is any labour to do it.
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
Theresa is on manoeuvres. The immigration leak is clearly intended to be a variation on 'Crush the Saboteurs'. I wonder if the recent hype about a Rees-Mogg leadership originated from Theresa's people - a cunning attempt to make Theresa seem earthly and unproblematic in comparison. If so, it worked jolly well!
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
If they do they are very stupid. After all, they've been saying since the referendum that we'd be a third-party country on Brexit and couldn't expect any special treatment. So why on earth should they be surprised, or see it as hostile, if we take them at their word and decide that their citizens have no more special rights here than citizens from any other country?
They'll see it for what it is - the latest example of a government that does not know what it is doing. The EU27 understand the UK voted to leave the EU. They will continue to watch the clock tick down as Mrs May and her colleagues attempt to find a coherent, workable exit strategy they can agree on. Clearly, the decision to seek a transition period that seemed to have been agreed is now no longer agreed.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
It's unbelievable isn't it. Constant neediness and playing to the hard right. Horrible.
52 % is not the hard right - indeed the poll this week had 64% supporting the crack down on free movement
Your ongoing arrogance in thinking the 52% of those who actually voted all support the Tory Brexit line is astonishing.
Come on Amber, it's time to do the honest thing. Resign and announce you've sent a letter to Graham Brady.
They voted to leave the EU and leave the EU we are.
Theresa May is going nowhere this side of March 2019
I'll offer you an even £20 she's gone by May 1st.
I have never had a bet in my life and I do not intend doing so now but she will be in place until the end of Brexit.
The immigration proposals will be very popular outside London and put labour in a position that to object to them will lose them votes throughout the non Metropolitan areas by the tens of thousands
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
Labour lost in 2010 too, so that is 3 general elections in a row it has got fewer seats than the Tories, not such an anomaly as you make out
3 successive elections and a referendum in which conventional wisdom/betting markets/pundits have been wrong, too. Which is why talk of an Autumn election (or any before 2021 at the earliest) would be an act of insanity! Doesn't mean it can't happen though!
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
Still leads Corbyn on best PM, Brexit and the economy
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
When will they take a good look at themselves and start to feel vaguely silly at the constant pantwetting?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Labour lost in 2010 too, so that is 3 general elections in a row it has got fewer seats than the Tories, not such an anomaly as you make out
3 successive elections and a referendum in which conventional wisdom/betting markets/pundits have been wrong, too. Which is why talk of an Autumn election (or any before 2021 at the earliest) would be an act of insanity! Doesn't mean it can't happen though!
Not that wrong, I think most still suspected Cameron and May to win most seats and they did, even if 2015 and 2017 saw Labour do worse and better than expected respectively
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
You are Edwina Curie and I claim my £5.
Edwina was miffed he did not mention her in his memoirs
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
I don't have a problem with the proposals, these merely bring EU/EEA nationals into line with the Home Office's famously deft handling of non EU migrants.
They do mean an end to a pretence of a transitional deal, or any deal other than WTO terms.
May seems to actually have understood that Brexit means Brexit, though it does seem to surprise a few others.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
The champagne socialists no longer able to get their southern and eastern European cheap labour?
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
You are Edwina Curie and I claim my £5.
Edwina was miffed he did not mention her in his memoirs
And yet two full chapters on the versatility of peas.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip .
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
The same Surgeon who has lost almost half her seats post Brexit?
Ending free movement and leaving the single market and not conceding everything the EU demands is not going to lead us into 'a post-Soviet style societal collapse.'
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
I don't have a problem with the proposals, these merely bring EU/EEA nationals into line with the Home Office's famously deft handling of non EU migrants.
They do mean an end to a pretence of a transitional deal, or any deal other than WTO terms.
May seems to actually have understood that Brexit means Brexit, though it does seem to surprise a few others.
If she'd really understood it she'd have planned for it.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
You are Edwina Curie and I claim my £5.
Edwina was miffed he did not mention her in his memoirs
And yet two full chapters on the versatility of peas.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
Good job it isn't anything important, more ludicrous hyperbole is hard to imagine.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
The proposals when refined will be good for the Country and popular
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Popular != good, not that the Leave voting pensioners will be worried about the job losses this policy will cause.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
I don't have a problem with the proposals, these merely bring EU/EEA nationals into line with the Home Office's famously deft handling of non EU migrants.
They do mean an end to a pretence of a transitional deal, or any deal other than WTO terms.
May seems to actually have understood that Brexit means Brexit, though it does seem to surprise a few others.
If she'd really understood it she'd have planned for it.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip .
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
The same Surgeon who has lost almost half her seats post Brexit?
Wait. I thought we were only supposed to judge leaders on their vote share and number of seats, not on whether they'd gained or lost seats.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
I don't have a problem with the proposals, these merely bring EU/EEA nationals into line with the Home Office's famously deft handling of non EU migrants.
They do mean an end to a pretence of a transitional deal, or any deal other than WTO terms.
May seems to actually have understood that Brexit means Brexit, though it does seem to surprise a few others.
We will see about transition and it is far too early to be so definitive about how this concludes - you may be right but equally you may be wrong and a deal is struck at the end of the day
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Remainers in a nutshell -" we know best peons !"
The Iraq war was popular, nationalisation of public utilities is popular, increasing taxes for the better off is popular. All good ideas?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
The proposals when refined will be good for the Country and popular
Alas more than ever it's party first, country second with this lot.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
The champagne socialists no longer able to get their southern and eastern European cheap labour?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Remainers in a nutshell -" we know best peons !"
The Iraq war was popular, nationalisation of public utilities is popular, increasing taxes for the better off is popular. All good ideas?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
The proposals when refined will be good for the Country and popular
Alas more than ever it's party first, country second with this lot.
These proposals address the whole essence of the vote to leave and and on survey after survey the majority want to control immigration, and yes even labour say they do but at present have no coherrant answer on the questinn
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip .
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
The same Surgeon who has lost almost half her seats post Brexit?
Wait. I thought we were only supposed to judge leaders on their vote share and number of seats, not on whether they'd gained or lost seats.
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
I would be delighted for the lower paid to get the benefit of controlled immigration and alongside we must train and educate our workforce for the jobs of the future
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
The truth is that economics is more self balancing than we tend to realise. If you gave every person in the UK a 5% payrise, it would likely result in a 3% devaluation in Sterling and a 2% increase in inflation. (Think of it this way: if you added a zero to every note in the UK, every salary, every loan and bank account, then would anyone be any richer? Obviously not. The productive capacity of the economy would not have moved one millimeter. This is a little different, of course, but choosing to reset one set of prices - labour - up by 5% would result in a host of other prices moving. )
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
I would be delighted for the lower paid to get the benefit of controlled immigration and alongside we must train and educate our workforce for the jobs of the future
If we only deal with the symptom (immigration), and not the illness (our broken tax and benefits system and education system), we will have failed tens of millions of Brits.
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
Like I was saying yesterday: a worker opossed to migrants undercutting him is patriotic, a worker striking for higher pay is a communist.
The nature of employment of EU migrants in agriculture, building, catering, hospitality, health and social care will tend to put up wages and prices. Whether even then the jobs can be filled is moot.
Those "Champagne Socialists" that Sunil sees in England's care homes may be in for a tough time.
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
I would be delighted for the lower paid to get the benefit of controlled immigration and alongside we must train and educate our workforce for the jobs of the future
Could not agree more. That first bit is relatively easy. The training and educating bit requires more long-term thinking.
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
I would be delighted for the lower paid to get the benefit of controlled immigration and alongside we must train and educate our workforce for the jobs of the future
If we only deal with the symptom (immigration), and not the illness (our broken tax and benefits system and education system), we will have failed tens of millions of Brits.
Indeed.
Labour ought to hang their heads in shame for their opposition to the reform of any of these, protecting their client base in the unions.
Good about the MP drop, drop. It was gerrymandering bullshit of the worst kind.
Eh?
Because it changed the 2000 boundaries?
How is a 17 year old set of boundaries not gerrymandering?
Arbitrary criteria designed to maximise Tory seats when they were (and still are) already over represented in FPTP due to some pretty dodgy boundaries. That's the problem that actually needed to be solved.
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
Like I was saying yesterday: a worker opossed to migrants undercutting him is patriotic, a worker striking for higher pay is a communist.
The nature of employment of EU migrants in agriculture, building, catering, hospitality, health and social care will tend to put up wages and prices. Whether even then the jobs can be filled is moot.
Those "Champagne Socialists" that Sunil sees in England's care homes may be in for a tough time.
No, I meant those champagne socialists here on PB whingeing about being unable to hire their EU cheap labour.
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Labour were just as surprised by the result.
In any case, a large part of the Conservatives' problem was failure to get their vote out in full.
Maybe they were irritated by unsolicited phone calls? I know I would have been.
Also. it was the Labour leadership who were surprised. There were many at grass roots level who detected something was afoot.
Yes, Labour lost by 60 seats. 2017 was a better than expected performance but still a defeat for Labour, if you want a real shock almost nobody in the winning party expected look at 1970 when almost all top Tories (apart from Heath) and the polls expected Wilson to win and Heath ended up winning a majority of 40.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Remainers in a nutshell -" we know best peons !"
The Iraq war was popular, nationalisation of public utilities is popular, increasing taxes for the better off is popular. All good ideas?
Good about the MP drop, drop. It was gerrymandering bullshit of the worst kind.
Eh?
Because it changed the 2000 boundaries?
How is a 17 year old set of boundaries not gerrymandering?
Gerrymandering is pushing it. However, the particular requirements placed on the Boundary Commission were designed to answer a problem which no longer exists. (The large lead that the Tories needed to win a majority in 2005, which has been negated by the relative collapse of the LD's and the loss of SLAB hegemony).
A reversion to 650 seats with +- 8% from the mean, would have the advantage of
1 Keeping most seats the same or similar. 2 Not having sitting MP's fighting over a seat. 3 Not crossing LA boundaries, and ending up with some of the stranger seats seen before.
The over-representation of Wales (for historic reasons) needs dealing with, but other than that , 2017 was not that unrepresentative. Some areas will become more Tory and some Labour. However, the (rightful) loss of Welsh seats will mean a small Tory increase.
Good about the MP drop, drop. It was gerrymandering bullshit of the worst kind.
Eh?
Because it changed the 2000 boundaries?
How is a 17 year old set of boundaries not gerrymandering?
Gerrymandering is pushing it. However, the particular requirements placed on the Boundary Commission were designed to answer a problem which no longer exists. (The large lead that the Tories needed to win a majority in 2005, which has been negated by the relative collapse of the LD's and the loss of SLAB hegemony).
A reversion to 650 seats with +- 8% from the mean, would have the advantage of
1 Keeping most seats the same or similar. 2 Not having sitting MP's fighting over a seat. 3 Not crossing LA boundaries, and ending up with some of the stranger seats seen before.
The over-representation of Wales (for historic reasons) needs dealing with, but other than that , the 2017 was not that un-representative. Some areas will become more Tory and some Labour. However, the (rightful) loss of Welsh seats will mean a small Tory increase.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Remainers in a nutshell -" we know best peons !"
The Iraq war was popular, nationalisation of public utilities is popular, increasing taxes for the better off is popular. All good ideas?
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
The remainer's have gone off the scale on here tonight over immigration proposals that will be popular to a large part of the electorate.
Just because something is popular does not mean it is good for the country.
Remainers in a nutshell -" we know best peons !"
The Iraq war was popular, nationalisation of public utilities is popular, increasing taxes for the better off is popular. All good ideas?
May's desperation for positive coverage in the right wing press may be some kind of psychological thing. Her willingness to crash the economy for a good headline in the Daily Mail is utterly extraordinary. This pre-referendum PB piece once again crosses my mind:
It's unbelievable isn't it. Constant neediness and playing to the hard right. Horrible.
Playing to the hard right is fine, though I doubt if Theresa May does it.
Corbyn plays to the hard left
I thought Corbyn was hard left? Although the agenda actually set out in his manifesto was pretty mainstream left.
But the 2017 manifesto was nothing like as left wing as 1983 - indeed much less so than the Labour manifestos at both 1974 elections - eg No pledge to bring back the National Enterprise Board !
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
Like I was saying yesterday: a worker opossed to migrants undercutting him is patriotic, a worker striking for higher pay is a communist.
The nature of employment of EU migrants in agriculture, building, catering, hospitality, health and social care will tend to put up wages and prices. Whether even then the jobs can be filled is moot.
Those "Champagne Socialists" that Sunil sees in England's care homes may be in for a tough time.
No, I meant those champagne socialists here on PB whingeing about being unable to hire their EU cheap labour.
How will the champagne socialists in understaffed care homes do?
rich people can afford to pay the difference, it is the poor who cannot.
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip toeing around feelings. This is likely to lead to an outcome that is detrimental to the UK's interest. And BTW I have consistently argued that there will be a deal with the EU. But it is tricky and takes some understanding and discretion on both sides. Mrs May has just chucked the most massive spanner into the Eurodeal works. I don't think she is even being deliberate. The leaked document proposes the EU should help the UK ease this policy in. She completely lacks any tact or imagination and is utterly unsuitable to be leader of our country at any time, let alone when it faces the most challenging set of circumstances since the Second world war.
More challenging than 1979? Come off it. I wish people would stop wetting their pants over Brexit it's so un-British.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Major left a Budget deficit - not a Balanced Budget. The country was also running a Balance of Payments deficit. This was all despite the fact that we had been ignominiously ejected from the ERM against Major's will!
How will the champagne socialists in understaffed care homes do? - You may be right, but the home care workers for my mother, once mostly non UK nationals, now are almost all English.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Major left a Budget deficit - not a Balanced Budget. The country was also running a Balance of Payments deficit. This was all despite the fact that we had been ignominiously ejected from the ERM against Major's will!
In 1997 we were spending under 40% of gdp, to be fair the early years of Blair were spending even lower, post 2004 as Brown took the reins that moved up significantly reaching almost 50% by 2010 with no change in the tax take.
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Labour were just as surprised by the result.
In any case, a large part of the Conservatives' problem was failure to get their vote out in full.
Maybe they were irritated by unsolicited phone calls? I know I would have been.
Also. it was the Labour leadership who were surprised. There were many at grass roots level who detected something was afoot.
Yes, Labour lost by 60 seats. 2017 was a better than expected performance but still a defeat for Labour, if you want a real shock almost nobody in the winning party expected look at 1970 when almost all top Tories (apart from Heath) and the polls expected Wilson to win and Heath ended up winning a majority of 40.
You do exaggerate - it was a mere 55 seats!
The difference between 55 and 60 seats is negligible, Labour still got 9 fewer seats than it did even in 1992
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip .
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
The same Surgeon who has lost almost half her seats post Brexit?
Wait. I thought we were only supposed to judge leaders on their vote share and number of seats, not on whether they'd gained or lost seats.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Major left a Budget deficit - not a Balanced Budget. The country was also running a Balance of Payments deficit. This was all despite the fact that we had been ignominiously ejected from the ERM against Major's will!
In 1997 we were spending under 40% of gdp, to be fair the early years of Blair were spending even lower, post 2004 as Brown took the reins that moved up significantly reaching almost 50% by 2010 with no change in the tax take.
That does not contradict my previous comment - in particular Labour inherited a Budget Deficit in 1997 and a Balance of Payments Deficit. It is worth pointing out that no Tory Government has bequeathed either a Budget Surplus or a Balance of Payments Surplus to Labour. On the the other hand, there are examples of Labour Governments having done both to Tory Governments!
If these immigration proposals were to lead to a say 5%" across the board pay rise for the lower paid, I would be all in favour. Supply and demand would suggest such an outcome. But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase? They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
The truth is that economics is more self balancing than we tend to realise. If you gave every person in the UK a 5% payrise, it would likely result in a 3% devaluation in Sterling and a 2% increase in inflation. (Think of it this way: if you added a zero to every note in the UK, every salary, every loan and bank account, then would anyone be any richer? Obviously not. The productive capacity of the economy would not have moved one millimeter. This is a little different, of course, but choosing to reset one set of prices - labour - up by 5% would result in a host of other prices moving. )
I do understand. Was trying to illustrate that it might be a little more complex. The idea that it is simple is a delusion which many on all sides of any argument love to indulge in.
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Labour were just as surprised by the result.
In any case, a large part of the Conservatives' problem was failure to get their vote out in full.
Maybe they were irritated by unsolicited phone calls? I know I would have been.
Also. it was the Labour leadership who were surprised. There were many at grass roots level who detected something was afoot.
Yes, Labour lost by 60 seats. 2017 was a better than expected performance but still a defeat for Labour, if you want a real shock almost nobody in the winning party expected look at 1970 when almost all top Tories (apart from Heath) and the polls expected Wilson to win and Heath ended up winning a majority of 40.
You do exaggerate - it was a mere 55 seats!
The difference between 55 and 60 seats is negligible, Labour still got 9 fewer seats than it did even in 1992
Purely because of Scotland. In England & Wales Labour performed more strongly than in 1992Moreover, the Tories had almost 20 fewer seats than in 1992..
Theresa May is scorching the earth as far as any deal with the EU is concerned. They will see this as very hostile.
While the headlines will receive wide support the devil is in the detail.
However, as far as the EU is concerned there are too many who think we should tip toe around their feelings
It is not tip .
When Brexit negotiations are bogged down, how does she respond? Characteristic lack of empathy, and pandering to the Tabloids. It is her comfort zone.
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
Unfortunately, we don't fall off the cliff edge into a WTO Brexit. We will be far worse off than that.
Yes, a cliff edge Brexit would throw us into a post-Soviet style societal collapse. To name just one consequence, I think a UDI from Sturgeon wouldn't be out of the question.
The same Surgeon who has lost almost half her seats post Brexit?
Wait. I thought we were only supposed to judge leaders on their vote share and number of seats, not on whether they'd gained or lost seats.
She lost 13% from the SNP's 2015 voteshare too
But wasn't it the second highest SNP vote share, and number of seats, ever? Surely she should then be regarded as an enormous success?
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Major left a Budget deficit - not a Balanced Budget. The country was also running a Balance of Payments deficit. This was all despite the fact that we had been ignominiously ejected from the ERM against Major's will!
In 1997 we were spending under 40% of gdp, to be fair the early years of Blair were spending even lower, post 2004 as Brown took the reins that moved up significantly reaching almost 50% by 2010 with no change in the tax take.
That does not contradict my previous comment - in particular Labour inherited a Budget Deficit in 1997 and a Balance of Payments Deficit. It is worth pointing out that no Tory Government has bequeathed either a Budget Surplus or a Balance of Payments Surplus to Labour. On the the other hand, there are examples of Labour Governments having done both to Tory Governments!
Labour left public sector net debt of £1,011 billion in 2009/10 and a net debt of almost 50% of gdp in 1979 which Thatcher reduced to under 30% by the time she left office
Good about the MP drop, drop. It was gerrymandering bullshit of the worst kind.
Eh?
Because it changed the 2000 boundaries?
How is a 17 year old set of boundaries not gerrymandering?
Gerrymandering is pushing it. However, the particular requirements placed on the Boundary Commission were designed to answer a problem which no longer exists. (The large lead that the Tories needed to win a majority in 2005, which has been negated by the relative collapse of the LD's and the loss of SLAB hegemony).
A reversion to 650 seats with +- 8% from the mean, would have the advantage of
1 Keeping most seats the same or similar. 2 Not having sitting MP's fighting over a seat. 3 Not crossing LA boundaries, and ending up with some of the stranger seats seen before.
The over-representation of Wales (for historic reasons) needs dealing with, but other than that , the 2017 was not that un-representative. Some areas will become more Tory and some Labour. However, the (rightful) loss of Welsh seats will mean a small Tory increase.
This is the worst Tory government of my lifetime. Worse even than Major. Astonishing.
The Major who left office with a balanced budget, a growing economy and low unemployment and fought a successful Gulf War in an international coalition and was followed by a Labour government which left office with the finances bust, an economy in recession and rising unemployment and an Iraq War launched without UN approval? That Major you mean?
Major left a Budget deficit - not a Balanced Budget. The country was also running a Balance of Payments deficit. This was all despite the fact that we had been ignominiously ejected from the ERM against Major's will!
In 1997 we were spending under 40% of gdp, to be fair the early years of Blair were spending even lower, post 2004 as Brown took the reins that moved up significantly reaching almost 50% by 2010 with no change in the tax take.
That does not contradict my previous comment - in particular Labour inherited a Budget Deficit in 1997 and a Balance of Payments Deficit. It is worth pointing out that no Tory Government has bequeathed either a Budget Surplus or a Balance of Payments Surplus to Labour. On the the other hand, there are examples of Labour Governments having done both to Tory Governments!
Labour left public sector net debt of £1,011 billion in 2009/10 and a net debt of almost 50% of gdp in 1979 which Thatcher reduced to under 30% by the time she left office
Again , that does not contradict my earlier comment. Inflation was lower in 1979 than inherited in 1974 and the Balance Of Payments was stronger. The economy was still growing - unlike 1974 - and unemployment had fallen by 100,00 in the final 12 months of that Government.
Yes, but under 40's? And how many people answer calls from unknown numbers on their mobiles? I don't. It is no surprise the Tories remained confident of victory right up to 10 pm. They were primarily canvassing their own supporters.
Labour were just as surprised by the result.
In any case, a large part of the Conservatives' problem was failure to get their vote out in full.
Maybe they were irritated by unsolicited phone calls? I know I would have been.
Also. it was the Labour leadership who were surprised. There were many at grass roots level who detected something was afoot.
Yes, Labour lost by 60 seats. 2017 was a better than expected performance but still a defeat for Labour, if you want a real shock almost nobody in the winning party expected look at 1970 when almost all top Tories (apart from Heath) and the polls expected Wilson to win and Heath ended up winning a majority of 40.
You do exaggerate - it was a mere 55 seats!
The difference between 55 and 60 seats is negligible, Labour still got 9 fewer seats than it did even in 1992
Good job the Tories went on to do so well in the election after 1992 then isn't it?
Comments
Can you have a one way third country? That may be what they expect. Ćherry picking, if there is any labour to do it.
Come on Amber, it's time to do the honest thing. Resign and announce you've sent a letter to Graham Brady.
(boy was 2015 an election worth losing)
A competent centrist labour government+no brexit vs. the current mess?
64% polled in support of the crack down on immigration
Theresa May is going nowhere this side of March 2019
Plastic bags understandable, but why paper?
These proposals seem reasonable and flexible.
Usual pantwetters getting in a fwap as usual of course.
The immigration proposals will be very popular outside London and put labour in a position that to object to them will lose them votes throughout the non Metropolitan areas by the tens of thousands
Which is why talk of an Autumn election (or any before 2021 at the earliest) would be an act of insanity!
Doesn't mean it can't happen though!
I have been predicting WTO Brexit for over a year, and that is what this document means.
Perhaps it would have been wise to make some plans for it...
That group have done rather well recently at the expense of British workers.
They do mean an end to a pretence of a transitional deal, or any deal other than WTO terms.
May seems to actually have understood that Brexit means Brexit, though it does seem to surprise a few others.
Ending free movement and leaving the single market and not conceding everything the EU demands is not going to lead us into 'a post-Soviet style societal collapse.'
Post soviet style collapse. Really?
Get a grip man.
But what will shareholders, homeowners and pensioners make of such an inflationary increase?
They are the Conservative core vote.
"(5% for illustrative purposes only).
Because it changed the 2000 boundaries?
How is a 17 year old set of boundaries not gerrymandering?
The nature of employment of EU migrants in agriculture, building, catering, hospitality, health and social care will tend to put up wages and prices. Whether even then the jobs can be filled is moot.
Those "Champagne Socialists" that Sunil sees in England's care homes may be in for a tough time.
Labour ought to hang their heads in shame for their opposition to the reform of any of these, protecting their client base in the unions.
However, the particular requirements placed on the Boundary Commission were designed to answer a problem which no longer exists. (The large lead that the Tories needed to win a majority in 2005, which has been negated by the relative collapse of the LD's and the loss of SLAB hegemony).
A reversion to 650 seats with +- 8% from the mean, would have the advantage of
1 Keeping most seats the same or similar.
2 Not having sitting MP's fighting over a seat.
3 Not crossing LA boundaries, and ending up with some of the stranger seats seen before.
The over-representation of Wales (for historic reasons) needs dealing with, but other than that , 2017 was not that unrepresentative. Some areas will become more Tory and some Labour.
However, the (rightful) loss of Welsh seats will mean a small Tory increase.
rich people can afford to pay the difference, it is the poor who cannot.