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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn now takes over the favourite slot in the next PM bettin

SystemSystem Posts: 12,259
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn now takes over the favourite slot in the next PM betting

Oddschecker

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  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    first?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Second is first. Follow the Corbyn example.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Solid reasoning on the part of OGH. The next PM is almost certain to be a Tory. The PM after the next general election is unknown territory. The wording of the bet is crucial.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited September 2017
    "Corbyn now takes over the favourite slot in the next PM betting"
    Brave.....

    And since the last GE, its long been my strongly held view that the SNP would definitely abstain or vote against a contrived confidence motion to force another GE anytime soon. And so I always thought that the Government held a much stronger hand as a minority Government, with or without that drawn out deal with the DUP. If anything, it annoys me that the SNP chose to snip from the sidelines rather than seek that kind of extra investment deal for Scotland when there was no chance in hell that they were going to help instigate another snap GE. But as always with the SNP, their natural instinct was to push grudge and grievance politics instead of putting the interests of Scotland first.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    4/1 for Corbyn to be next PM is insane. As Labour are about evens to have the most seats at the next election, you'll be betting 3/1 for Theresa May to lead the Tories into that next election. Forget about the men in grey suits, it'll be the men in white coats were May even to try that.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849
    Hyacinth Bucket at 66/1 looks like conspicuous value as she does seem to be the anointed successor.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Boris at 10/1 has to be worth a punt at that price surely?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited September 2017
    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017
    tlg86 said:

    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.

    We can be fairly certain that nobody fired a crossbow bolt...unless they were conducting slightly unusual experiments with a smoothbore gun.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.

    We can be fairly certain that nobody fired a crossbow bolt...unless they were conducting slightly unusual experiments with a smoothbore gun.
    It’s scuppered whatever faint chance Surrey had of winning the title, as Essex march on.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838

    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?

    The required standard in today's Tory party is closer to School Sports Day than Olympic Games.
  • tlg86 said:

    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.

    Where'd you get that from? The BBC says they're saying it's "not being treated as terrorism related" which seems sensible from the evidence so far. That doesn't rule out the possibility it may unexpectedly be terrorism related and doesn't mean anything is "absolutely certain".
  • Good morning, everyone.

    That's a depressing headline to see.

    F1: first practice should kick off in about 80 minutes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.

    We can be fairly certain that nobody fired a crossbow bolt...unless they were conducting slightly unusual experiments with a smoothbore gun.
    It’s scuppered whatever faint chance Surrey had of winning the title, as Essex march on.
    So not all bad news then? :smiley:

    After all the disparaging of the standard of cricket in the 2nd division by the London based media, I have to admit I am highly amused by Essex, who have been also-rans for years, won the 2nd division by a fairly narrow margin, and lost their most prolific bowler in the close season, absolutely walloping every side in Division 1. Even allowing for the inspired signing of Simon Harmer, it's been brilliant to watch.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    fitalass said:

    "Corbyn now takes over the favourite slot in the next PM betting"
    Brave.....

    And since the last GE, its long been my strongly held view that the SNP would definitely abstain or vote against a contrived confidence motion to force another GE anytime soon. And so I always thought that the Government held a much stronger hand as a minority Government, with or without that drawn out deal with the DUP. If anything, it annoys me that the SNP chose to snip from the sidelines rather than seek that kind of extra investment deal for Scotland when there was no chance in hell that they were going to help instigate another snap GE. But as always with the SNP, their natural instinct was to push grudge and grievance politics instead of putting the interests of Scotland first.

    Most SNP seats now danger for one reason or another (listening to Radio Scotland GMS today, 1 out of 6 radiologist jobs vacant, teacher vacancies in too many schools,) however, if they abstain or vote with the Tories on anything to stop a GE, then in the eyes of the electorate, the Tartan Tory meme will be re-established. The SNP will be totally finished in the Central Belt, Fife and Dundee.

    Sturgeon meanwhile, is busy trying to reinvent the party as a responsible government, not a great deal of confidence in its own recent history from even their own supporters. (Know I shouldn't comment, but Sturgeon is normally very good at dress and make-up, saw her interview on BBC Scotland news last night and she had so much dark round her eyes, I immediately thought she was practicing for Halloween)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    So the police don't know who fire the crossbow bolt on to the Oval yesterday. But they are absolutely certain it wasn't terrorism.

    We can be fairly certain that nobody fired a crossbow bolt...unless they were conducting slightly unusual experiments with a smoothbore gun.
    It’s scuppered whatever faint chance Surrey had of winning the title, as Essex march on.
    So not all bad news then? :smiley:

    After all the disparaging of the standard of cricket in the 2nd division by the London based media, I have to admit I am highly amused by Essex, who have been also-rans for years, won the 2nd division by a fairly narrow margin, and lost their most prolific bowler in the close season, absolutely walloping every side in Division 1. Even allowing for the inspired signing of Simon Harmer, it's been brilliant to watch.
    It has indeed Dt. Strangely many of the fans on the independent ‘supporters’ website are still behaving as though it’s years gone by!
    As a regular at Chelmsford I think the availablity of Cook, plus the signing of Neil Wagner were significant contributory factors, and to a lesser extent Mohammed Amir.
    Until now we’ve been lucky with injuries, too.
  • This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017
    The key assumption of the markets appears to be that May will get away with her hubris because there is no obvious alternative who would be doing better.

    However, given the rules of the Tory party do not require an alternative to come forward before she is defenestrated, that is irrelevant. While it means she is likely to stay as long as she is a useful human shield against the problems we face, it also means she will be quickly disposed of when that no longer applies, and they feel a gamble can be taken on somebody else, potentially someone either quite junior or a backbencher with ministerial experience who will not be tainted by her government. Given that Corbyn looks to be going nowhere and the putative successors, Macdonnell, Starmer and Thornberry are all even weaker candidates than him, they may feel they don't need a real heavyweight.

    At the moment, therefore, I am wondering if Crabb might be value again. He's a former mid-ranking minister, he's clearly ambitious and he's well thought of. If he's spending time building up contacts on the backbenches rather than working on his troubled marriage he could be dangerous in a leadership contest, especially as neither Johnson nor Hammond seem likely to do well even if they stand but they have effective locks on the usual route to the top.

    A Gove vs Crabb runoff might be interesting. Of course, if Osborne hadn't had multiple hissy fits...

    Certainly next PM Corbyn is no bet for me. If May stays to the next election it will be 2022, and by then Corbyn will be 73. For all his energy and his physical fitness, I don't think he will stay that long.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,966

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
    No doubt he's intelligent - but his stint at Education also demonstrated a disturbing intellectual arrogance coupled to a lack of judgment.
    When he's right (as at Justice) that arrogance can actually be a positive force - when not, as at Education, utterly divisive.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,215

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
    I would love to see what he could do as Chancellor. We need that clear intellect applied to our tax code, for example. But I can't see him as leader. He is just too awkward.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017
    Nigelb said:

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
    No doubt he's intelligent - but his stint at Education also demonstrated a disturbing intellectual arrogance coupled to a lack of judgment.
    When he's right (as at Justice) that arrogance can actually be a positive force - when not, as at Education, utterly divisive.
    It's not his arrogance, it's his stubbornness and lack of patience. Most of his ideas - academies, exam reforms, changes to teacher training, changes to inspection regimes - are actually justifiable and even sensible in isolation. The content of the new history syllabus at GCSE is far better than the old one on paper.

    Trying to do all of them at once on tight budgets in short timeframes without proper quality control at a time of massively rising pupil numbers was fucking insane.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    While I am sure James May is right that Dacias have many admirable qualities - I don't!
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
    I've also become a fan of Gove, after his time in Justice. It is a great shame that May didn't reappoint him to that role.

    Not sure he really has the stature and temprement to become PM. He is more of a thinker.



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,966
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    I rate him highly myself. But he's the sort of politician who I like most (I like Letwin too) - intelligent, rational and *about something*, not just chugging along trying to look good.
    No doubt he's intelligent - but his stint at Education also demonstrated a disturbing intellectual arrogance coupled to a lack of judgment.
    When he's right (as at Justice) that arrogance can actually be a positive force - when not, as at Education, utterly divisive.
    It's not his arrogance, it's his stubbornness and lack of patience. Most of his ideas - academies, exam reforms, changes to teacher training, changes to inspection regimes - are actually justifiable and even sensible in isolation. The content of the new history syllabus at GCSE is far better than the old one on paper.

    Trying to do all of them at once on tight budgets in short timeframes without proper quality control at a time of massively rising pupil numbers was fucking insane.
    I don't argue with that - intellectual arrogance, stubbornness and impatience are not exactly mutually exclusive qualities.
    There were also some imbecilities - shutting down the national strategies website (an excellent and developing resource for lesson planning, which saved an enormous amount of time and duplicated effort, particularly for primary school teachers) was simply stupid.
  • Blimey, I log on for first time in a half a day or so and it has become national Gove day!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    The key assumption of the markets appears to be that May will get away with her hubris because there is no obvious alternative who would be doing better.

    However, given the rules of the Tory party do not require an alternative to come forward before she is defenestrated, that is irrelevant. While it means she is likely to stay as long as she is a useful human shield against the problems we face, it also means she will be quickly disposed of when that no longer applies, and they feel a gamble can be taken on somebody else, potentially someone either quite junior or a backbencher with ministerial experience who will not be tainted by her government. Given that Corbyn looks to be going nowhere and the putative successors, Macdonnell, Starmer and Thornberry are all even weaker candidates than him, they may feel they don't need a real heavyweight.

    At the moment, therefore, I am wondering if Crabb might be value again. He's a former mid-ranking minister, he's clearly ambitious and he's well thought of. If he's spending time building up contacts on the backbenches rather than working on his troubled marriage he could be dangerous in a leadership contest, especially as neither Johnson nor Hammond seem likely to do well even if they stand but they have effective locks on the usual route to the top.

    A Gove vs Crabb runoff might be interesting. Of course, if Osborne hadn't had multiple hissy fits...

    Certainly next PM Corbyn is no bet for me. If May stays to the next election it will be 2022, and by then Corbyn will be 73. For all his energy and his physical fitness, I don't think he will stay that long.

    Crabb ... well, his Pembrokeshire seat should be becoming safer as demographics are making it more Tory, but he managed to turn it into a marginal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017

    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?

    He has turned Braintree from a 1451 Labour majority in 1997 and a 350 Labour majority in 2001 to a 17 600 Tory majority in 2015 and an 18 000 Tory majority in 2017 which is pretty impressive though I agree he is unlikely to ever be PM
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Boris Johnson is diminishing himself with every utterance to the point that he is now not even the best candidate in his own family. David Davis, still the winner of the award for most wooden speech in sight of a political prize, has failed at the final hurdle before, in 2005. Most of the cabinet are, frankly, not good enough to be prime minister. Of those with a seat at the table, only Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Hunt and Greg Clark are even close to having what it takes and that is stretching it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/may-is-not-mad-to-think-she-can-carry-on-sblr5tdvd
  • HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    ydoethur said:

    The key assumption of the markets appears to be that May will get away with her hubris because there is no obvious alternative who would be doing better.

    However, given the rules of the Tory party do not require an alternative to come forward before she is defenestrated, that is irrelevant. While it means she is likely to stay as long as she is a useful human shield against the problems we face, it also means she will be quickly disposed of when that no longer applies, and they feel a gamble can be taken on somebody else, potentially someone either quite junior or a backbencher with ministerial experience who will not be tainted by her government. Given that Corbyn looks to be going nowhere and the putative successors, Macdonnell, Starmer and Thornberry are all even weaker candidates than him, they may feel they don't need a real heavyweight.

    At the moment, therefore, I am wondering if Crabb might be value again. He's a former mid-ranking minister, he's clearly ambitious and he's well thought of. If he's spending time building up contacts on the backbenches rather than working on his troubled marriage he could be dangerous in a leadership contest, especially as neither Johnson nor Hammond seem likely to do well even if they stand but they have effective locks on the usual route to the top.

    A Gove vs Crabb runoff might be interesting. Of course, if Osborne hadn't had multiple hissy fits...

    Certainly next PM Corbyn is no bet for me. If May stays to the next election it will be 2022, and by then Corbyn will be 73. For all his energy and his physical fitness, I don't think he will stay that long.

    Crabb ... well, his Pembrokeshire seat should be becoming safer as demographics are making it more Tory, but he managed to turn it into a marginal.
    Having captured it from Labour and made it semi-safe in the first place.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    While I am sure James May is right that Dacias have many admirable qualities - I don't!
    I quite like their estate car, the Logan MCV. Massive boot. Good spec. Looks like a generic estate car. about £8k for a mid range model? You can also get a 7 year warranty. If you can bear the looks and slow engine, the economics are better than buying a used car.

    Is an Astra estate - at £17k - really worth over TWICE the price? Whats the actual difference?

    I can understand paying more for a Volvo or Mazda, but most of the european mass market cars being turned out are terrible value for money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    Scott_P said:

    Boris Johnson is diminishing himself with every utterance to the point that he is now not even the best candidate in his own family. David Davis, still the winner of the award for most wooden speech in sight of a political prize, has failed at the final hurdle before, in 2005. Most of the cabinet are, frankly, not good enough to be prime minister. Of those with a seat at the table, only Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Jeremy Hunt and Greg Clark are even close to having what it takes and that is stretching it.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/may-is-not-mad-to-think-she-can-carry-on-sblr5tdvd

    Hammond and Rudd both poll even worse than May, Boris and Davis and Hunt is loathed and Clark did not appear to defend his own department on a recent BBC programme
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    HYUFD said:

    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?

    He has turned Braintree from a 1451 Labour majority in 1997 and a 350 Labour majority in 2001 to a 17 600 Tory majority in 2015 and an 18 000 Tory majority in 2017 which is pretty impressive though I agree he is unlikely to ever be PM
    What was the size of the majority when it was held by Tony Newton ?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
    Only of Corbyn wins the next general election, if he loses and the Tories won a small majority Umunna will be back in the frame
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017

    Blimey, I log on for first time in a half a day or so and it has become national Gove day!

    Well, it is the 1st September. Albus Potter is off to Hogwarts for the first time and I start back on Monday...

    :frowning:
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    We all know you're a Boris fan clearly not because he has demonstrated any of the capabilities required to be an effective Prime Minister but because you (and others in the Conservative Party) think his bumbling clown "act" might just impress enough people to keep the Conservatives in Government.

    At the end of the day, that's all that matters for you, isn't it ?

  • nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    Is it still true that new cars are bad value? Let me emphasise I do not know, and do not drive which means I don't care enough to do the research but I do remember reading a couple of years ago that the combination of dealer discounts, cheap finance deals and long warranties meant the pendulum had swung back towards new.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    We all know you're a Boris fan clearly not because he has demonstrated any of the capabilities required to be an effective Prime Minister but because you (and others in the Conservative Party) think his bumbling clown "act" might just impress enough people to keep the Conservatives in Government.

    At the end of the day, that's all that matters for you, isn't it ?
    Boris is a rather brainier version of Corbyn. If it's good enough for Labour...
  • WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434
    edited September 2017
    Would a new Tory leader necessarily be PM before another GE, or could May remain as PM technically while her successor lead the campaign as Tory PM 'candidate'?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    Is it still true that new cars are bad value? Let me emphasise I do not know, and do not drive which means I don't care enough to do the research but I do remember reading a couple of years ago that the combination of dealer discounts, cheap finance deals and long warranties meant the pendulum had swung back towards new.
    Not if you can pay cash down. The depreciation on a new car is still high.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,634
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The key assumption of the markets appears to be that May will get away with her hubris because there is no obvious alternative who would be doing better.

    However, given the rules of the Tory party do not require an alternative to come forward before she is defenestrated, that is irrelevant. While it means she is likely to stay as long as she is a useful human shield against the problems we face, it also means she will be quickly disposed of when that no longer applies, and they feel a gamble can be taken on somebody else, potentially someone either quite junior or a backbencher with ministerial experience who will not be tainted by her government. Given that Corbyn looks to be going nowhere and the putative successors, Macdonnell, Starmer and Thornberry are all even weaker candidates than him, they may feel they don't need a real heavyweight.

    At the moment, therefore, I am wondering if Crabb might be value again. He's a former mid-ranking minister, he's clearly ambitious and he's well thought of. If he's spending time building up contacts on the backbenches rather than working on his troubled marriage he could be dangerous in a leadership contest, especially as neither Johnson nor Hammond seem likely to do well even if they stand but they have effective locks on the usual route to the top.

    A Gove vs Crabb runoff might be interesting. Of course, if Osborne hadn't had multiple hissy fits...

    Certainly next PM Corbyn is no bet for me. If May stays to the next election it will be 2022, and by then Corbyn will be 73. For all his energy and his physical fitness, I don't think he will stay that long.

    Crabb ... well, his Pembrokeshire seat should be becoming safer as demographics are making it more Tory, but he managed to turn it into a marginal.
    Having captured it from Labour and made it semi-safe in the first place.
    Labour's strongest performance outwith London was definitely Wales, both north and south with Wrexham hold being against the exit polling.
    I think the Tories best area (Facing Labour) was the East Midlands, I wonder if Labour may well miss Carwyn in Wales now.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Blimey, I log on for first time in a half a day or so and it has become national Gove day!

    Gove is in the air.
  • May needs a reshuffle and must give her ministers some leeway to develop new ideas:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/01/theresa-may-needs-look-like-plausible-leader-stay-means-cabinet/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    Would a new Tory leader necessarily be PM before another GE, or could May remain as PM technically while her successor lead the campaign as Tory PM 'vandidate'?

    Well, technically they are separate roles and therefore there is in theory no need for them to be combined, but in practice it has never happened. 1950 and 1951 would be the nearest equivalents, where Eden had become the de facto leader of the parliamentary party but it was understood Churchill would be the PM. However those circumstances were very unusual.

    More pertinently, why would she remain PM and deny a successor the greatest boost of all - being the actual PM for a few months so people don't have to imagine them in the role?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
    Only of Corbyn wins the next general election, if he loses and the Tories won a small majority Umunna will be back in the frame
    iirc our Jezza reaches 70 before the next likely date of GE.

    He has hinted at retiring at 70, or at least considering it. I wouldn't put it past him to be someone who walks away even when there is a good chance of being PM.

    Thornberry on these numbers has an implied chance of being PM of 1.5% (if I have done my early morning maths correctly).

    Really? 1.5%. She is favoured by Red Len and is 2nd in Shad Cabinet (as she is First Sec of State or whatever it is called).

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    We all know you're a Boris fan clearly not because he has demonstrated any of the capabilities required to be an effective Prime Minister but because you (and others in the Conservative Party) think his bumbling clown "act" might just impress enough people to keep the Conservatives in Government.

    At the end of the day, that's all that matters for you, isn't it ?

    Well he is more charismatic than May and still the only Tory who does better than her in polls, so yes
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    ydoethur said:


    Boris is a rather brainier version of Corbyn. If it's good enough for Labour...

    The one thing Boris is good at is saying exactly what the audience he is speaking to wants to hear. He was at one time an ardent pro-EU supporter and then became an integral part of the LEAVE campaign not, I would argue, on a matter of principle but a matter of opportunism.

    Yes, he was London Mayor but I'd question what he actually achieved. He suited the mood of London and at a time of great uncertainty and anxiety (2008), he was the embodiment of hope and confidence.

    The one thing he did was centralise far more power into the Mayor's office than Ken Livingstone so Boris effectively ran the Police and Transport for London where he met his match in the late Bob Crow. I've seen him at GLA Question Time and time and again he displayed a lack of interest or knowledge of the detail of his brief and retreated into bluster at such opportunities. He either thinks or believes a self-deprecating joke or a turn of phrase will successfully cover his ignorance - it may do as Mayor it wouldn't as Prime Minister.

    He would be the antithesis of May just as Major was in his way the antithesis of Thatcher and Brown that of Blair. Whether that's what you need as distinct from what you like is another question.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
    Only of Corbyn wins the next general election, if he loses and the Tories won a small majority Umunna will be back in the frame
    iirc our Jezza reaches 70 before the next likely date of GE.

    He has hinted at retiring at 70, or at least considering it. I wouldn't put it past him to be someone who walks away even when there is a good chance of being PM.

    Thornberry on these numbers has an implied chance of being PM of 1.5% (if I have done my early morning maths correctly).

    Really? 1.5%. She is favoured by Red Len and is 2nd in Shad Cabinet (as she is First Sec of State or whatever it is called).

    Corbyn will fight 1 more general election, probably in 2019/20 if he wins he is PM if he loses he resigns
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    Is it still true that new cars are bad value? Let me emphasise I do not know, and do not drive which means I don't care enough to do the research but I do remember reading a couple of years ago that the combination of dealer discounts, cheap finance deals and long warranties meant the pendulum had swung back towards new.
    I don't think there is an absolute rule. If you can get a cash deal on a new car at considerably below the list price then potentially it would be better value than buying a used car, particularly as it eliminates the associated risks.

    As regards the financing deals, these offer a 'discount' on the (inflated) new price, but then they tend to make it up through higher interest rates than you would get from a cash loan from the bank. Also you are tied up to the deal as you don't really own the car, so you have to think about dilapidations, excess mileage, etc etc.

    They seem to work for a lot of people who are just happy to sign up and pay the monthly payment, but as far as I can tell you could buy a nearly new car, get a 3% loan from the bank, pay less than the monthly payment you would be paying on a new car, and own the car yourself and its resale value.

    The only exception to this is the Dacia model, which turns the whole industry on its head.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    nielh said:

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    Is it still true that new cars are bad value? Let me emphasise I do not know, and do not drive which means I don't care enough to do the research but I do remember reading a couple of years ago that the combination of dealer discounts, cheap finance deals and long warranties meant the pendulum had swung back towards new.
    I don't think there is an absolute rule. If you can get a cash deal on a new car at considerably below the list price then potentially it would be better value than buying a used car, particularly as it eliminates the associated risks.

    As regards the financing deals, these offer a 'discount' on the (inflated) new price, but then they tend to make it up through higher interest rates than you would get from a cash loan from the bank. Also you are tied up to the deal as you don't really own the car, so you have to think about dilapidations, excess mileage, etc etc.

    They seem to work for a lot of people who are just happy to sign up and pay the monthly payment, but as far as I can tell you could buy a nearly new car, get a 3% loan from the bank, pay less than the monthly payment you would be paying on a new car, and own the car yourself and its resale value.

    The only exception to this is the Dacia model, which turns the whole industry on its head.
    The best site for new cars imho is " Drive the Deal" . There are some amazing offers on there. PCP's are great if its 0% finance. If it isn't.. naaah.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited September 2017

    May needs a reshuffle and must give her ministers some leeway to develop new ideas:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/01/theresa-may-needs-look-like-plausible-leader-stay-means-cabinet/

    The Tories developed some new ideas at the 2017 GE. That worked well.. NOT!!. Frankly, they should all STFU and get on with their jobs.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?

    He has turned Braintree from a 1451 Labour majority in 1997 and a 350 Labour majority in 2001 to a 17 600 Tory majority in 2015 and an 18 000 Tory majority in 2017 which is pretty impressive though I agree he is unlikely to ever be PM
    What was the size of the majority when it was held by Tony Newton ?

    Significantly different boundaries. About 30% of the consituency, including the town of Witham, which has a substantial Labour vote was split off to the new Witham consituency.

    Note that the Witham consituency also has a large Tory voting rural-ish area. Hence Priti Patel’s vote.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Oh Dear, the SNP have money problems and a dropping membership, must be true, it's on the beeb, just don't tell Malkie:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41120828
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    Boris is a rather brainier version of Corbyn. If it's good enough for Labour...

    The one thing Boris is good at is saying exactly what the audience he is speaking to wants to hear. He was at one time an ardent pro-EU supporter and then became an integral part of the LEAVE campaign not, I would argue, on a matter of principle but a matter of opportunism.

    Yes, he was London Mayor but I'd question what he actually achieved. He suited the mood of London and at a time of great uncertainty and anxiety (2008), he was the embodiment of hope and confidence.

    The one thing he did was centralise far more power into the Mayor's office than Ken Livingstone so Boris effectively ran the Police and Transport for London where he met his match in the late Bob Crow. I've seen him at GLA Question Time and time and again he displayed a lack of interest or knowledge of the detail of his brief and retreated into bluster at such opportunities. He either thinks or believes a self-deprecating joke or a turn of phrase will successfully cover his ignorance - it may do as Mayor it wouldn't as Prime Minister.

    He would be the antithesis of May just as Major was in his way the antithesis of Thatcher and Brown that of Blair. Whether that's what you need as distinct from what you like is another question.
    Exactly like Corbyn, then. A populist rather than a statesman or even a politician who has been holding random offices for years but has never done anything with them.

    My point was not that he should be leader - I certainly don't want him as PM, and I wouldn't vote for him in a general election. My point is that Labour can hardly criticise him or claim he won't be successful politically given their current leader is a sort of less impressive version of the same thing.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
    Only of Corbyn wins the next general election, if he loses and the Tories won a small majority Umunna will be back in the frame
    iirc our Jezza reaches 70 before the next likely date of GE.

    He has hinted at retiring at 70, or at least considering it. I wouldn't put it past him to be someone who walks away even when there is a good chance of being PM.

    Thornberry on these numbers has an implied chance of being PM of 1.5% (if I have done my early morning maths correctly).

    Really? 1.5%. She is favoured by Red Len and is 2nd in Shad Cabinet (as she is First Sec of State or whatever it is called).

    Corbyn will fight 1 more general election, probably in 2019/20 if he wins he is PM if he loses he resigns
    Almost certainly. And almost certainly May wont be leader into next GE (which would have to be the case to stop next PM not being a Tory).

    Still I have taken a nibble at 66 on Ladbrokes.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,401
    ydoethur said:

    While I am sure James May is right that Dacias have many admirable qualities - I don't!

    I have been following Dacia developments since Louis Schweitzer, the boss of Renault,had an idea of building a €5000 car in a broken down Romanian car plant at the turn of the millennium. I find cheap and cheerful a more interesting product development challenge than the best you can make. Dacias are for people who when buying washing machines want one that washes your clothes properly and doesn't break down, but don't mind there are just two buttons - cottons/delicates and start - and it's a bit noisy. Dacia are cars as a commodity. Nothing stands out about them, good or bad. The proposition is, if you are going to buy an average car, and almost all cars are average, you might as well buy the cheap one.

    The interesting thing to me is why Renault are the only car manufacturer so far to have made this proposition work. There is serious design, industrialisation and marketing behind it.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    ydoethur said:


    Exactly like Corbyn, then. A populist rather than a statesman or even a politician who has been holding random offices for years but has never done anything with them.

    My point was not that he should be leader - I certainly don't want him as PM, and I wouldn't vote for him in a general election. My point is that Labour can hardly criticise him or claim he won't be successful politically given their current leader is a sort of less impressive version of the same thing.

    Well, yes, Boris has a record which can be analysed and, I suspect, some interesting comments and changes of view point which can also be questioned and that's part and parcel of the process.

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    Boris is a rather brainier version of Corbyn. If it's good enough for Labour...

    The one thing Boris is good at is saying exactly what the audience he is speaking to wants to hear. He was at one time an ardent pro-EU supporter and then became an integral part of the LEAVE campaign not, I would argue, on a matter of principle but a matter of opportunism.

    Yes, he was London Mayor but I'd question what he actually achieved. He suited the mood of London and at a time of great uncertainty and anxiety (2008), he was the embodiment of hope and confidence.

    The one thing he did was centralise far more power into the Mayor's office than Ken Livingstone so Boris effectively ran the Police and Transport for London where he met his match in the late Bob Crow. I've seen him at GLA Question Time and time and again he displayed a lack of interest or knowledge of the detail of his brief and retreated into bluster at such opportunities. He either thinks or believes a self-deprecating joke or a turn of phrase will successfully cover his ignorance - it may do as Mayor it wouldn't as Prime Minister.

    He would be the antithesis of May just as Major was in his way the antithesis of Thatcher and Brown that of Blair. Whether that's what you need as distinct from what you like is another question.
    Exactly like Corbyn, then. A populist rather than a statesman or even a politician who has been holding random offices for years but has never done anything with them.

    My point was not that he should be leader - I certainly don't want him as PM, and I wouldn't vote for him in a general election. My point is that Labour can hardly criticise him or claim he won't be successful politically given their current leader is a sort of less impressive version of the same thing.
    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people
  • OchEye said:

    Oh Dear, the SNP have money problems and a dropping membership, must be true, it's on the beeb, just don't tell Malkie:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41120828

    Wouldn't the SNP, like all parties, have just spent a small fortune on elections and referenda?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    How has James Cleverly got himself into a 'possible PM’ list?

    He has turned Braintree from a 1451 Labour majority in 1997 and a 350 Labour majority in 2001 to a 17 600 Tory majority in 2015 and an 18 000 Tory majority in 2017 which is pretty impressive though I agree he is unlikely to ever be PM
    What was the size of the majority when it was held by Tony Newton ?

    By 1997 -1450 as he lost the seat to Labour
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    While I am sure James May is right that Dacias have many admirable qualities - I don't!

    I have been following Dacia developments since Louis Schweitzer, the boss of Renault,had an idea of building a €5000 car in a broken down Romanian car plant at the turn of the millennium. I find cheap and cheerful a more interesting product development challenge than the best you can make. Dacias are for people who when buying washing machines want one that washes your clothes properly and doesn't break down, but don't mind there are just two buttons - cottons/delicates and start - and it's a bit noisy. Dacia are cars as a commodity. Nothing stands out about them, good or bad. The proposition is, if you are going to buy an average car, and almost all cars are average, you might as well buy the cheap one.

    The interesting thing to me is why Renault are the only car manufacturer so far to have made this proposition work. There is serious design, industrialisation and marketing behind it.

    Somewhat similar to Skodas. Cheaper equivalent of Volswagens.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn is the only possible Labour option for next PM after May at the next general election so that is why he is favourite and of course let us not forget he got 60 fewer seats than the Tories at the last general election. Given the Tory successor to May is likely to be Davis or Boris, the former before Brexit talks have concluded and the latter after they are both goid value as they could become PM for a few months even if they lose the next general election

    I would have thought Thornberry at 66 is a value bet on this table. She seems more likely than the others, at the moment, to take over if Jezza retires at 70.
    Only of Corbyn wins the next general election, if he loses and the Tories won a small majority Umunna will be back in the frame
    iirc our Jezza reaches 70 before the next likely date of GE.

    He has hinted at retiring at 70, or at least considering it. I wouldn't put it past him to be someone who walks away even when there is a good chance of being PM.

    Thornberry on these numbers has an implied chance of being PM of 1.5% (if I have done my early morning maths correctly).

    Really? 1.5%. She is favoured by Red Len and is 2nd in Shad Cabinet (as she is First Sec of State or whatever it is called).

    Corbyn will fight 1 more general election, probably in 2019/20 if he wins he is PM if he loses he resigns
    Almost certainly. And almost certainly May wont be leader into next GE (which would have to be the case to stop next PM not being a Tory).

    Still I have taken a nibble at 66 on Ladbrokes.
    At that price worth it if Corbyn falls under a bus
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    stodge said:

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Hmmm.

    Corbyn is a man with a self-declared 'not a total pacifist, but with a low threshold for violence,' who shares a platform with terrorists.

    He is an anti-fascist who makes common cause with Holocaust Deniers.

    He is the man who campaigns against welfare cuts to be elected leader, yet promises to keep them in his election manifesto.

    He is the serial rebel who sacks people for disloyalty.

    He promises to 'deal with' student debts - then admits he wouldn't.

    He is the Brexiteer turned Remainer who wants to leave the Single Market because of democracy, until he doesn't.

    While very often his changes can be justified because of other events - Trident, where his party overruled him, for example - I think it's rather stretching it to say he's been 'consistent.' He has always, so far as I can judge, done what his target audience wanted him to do. That means he flip-flops or goes with the Scott Fitzgerald artistry, while claiming he isn't doing it because above all they like principled politicians.

    If he reminds me of any fictional figure it's Roy Bland - as a good socialist he's following the money, and as a good capitalist he's sticking with the revolution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:


    Exactly like Corbyn, then. A populist rather than a statesman or even a politician who has been holding random offices for years but has never done anything with them.

    My point was not that he should be leader - I certainly don't want him as PM, and I wouldn't vote for him in a general election. My point is that Labour can hardly criticise him or claim he won't be successful politically given their current leader is a sort of less impressive version of the same thing.

    Well, yes, Boris has a record which can be analysed and, I suspect, some interesting comments and changes of view point which can also be questioned and that's part and parcel of the process.

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Yes Corbyn is oh so consistent, staunchly anti EU all his life, then backs Remain to keep his party together, then backs ending free movement and leaving the single market to keep Labour Leavers at the general election now looks to be flip flopping again!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    Without in any way disagreeing with your comments on Boris - please name me one big, tangible achievement that Corbyn has to show for 34 years as an MP.

    You see my points?

    It's well known how much I loathe Corbyn. Boris at least has a sense of humour. However, all my reasons for hating Corbyn apply equally to him, apart from the one about stupidity - whatever else he is, Boris Johnson is certainly not stupid.

    That said, knowing that Corbyn is far more successful electorally than numerous deserving candidates, I do genuinely worry that Boris might win an election and be PM. The only thing that stands in the way is his lack of support in the PCP, which may stop him getting to the last two (and that's the real reason he was forced out last time, whatever he says in public).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    London was still a top global city when he left, he thought up some interesting innovations like Boris bikes etc and of course Epping is in Essex not in London as I well know
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    Without in any way disagreeing with your comments on Boris - please name me one big, tangible achievement that Corbyn has to show for 34 years as an MP.

    You see my points?

    It's well known how much I loathe Corbyn. Boris at least has a sense of humour. However, all my reasons for hating Corbyn apply equally to him, apart from the one about stupidity - whatever else he is, Boris Johnson is certainly not stupid.

    That said, knowing that Corbyn is far more successful electorally than numerous deserving candidates, I do genuinely worry that Boris might win an election and be PM. The only thing that stands in the way is his lack of support in the PCP, which may stop him getting to the last two (and that's the real reason he was forced out last time, whatever he says in public).
    If Boris continues to top the polls as most favoured next Tory leader he will get to the final 2 with Davis (Tory MPs want to keep their seats above all) and Gove will be on board this time with a promise of a big job, Boris I think will then narrowly win with members, especially if it is after Davis has completed Brexit talks
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    London was still a top global city when he left, he thought up some interesting innovations like Boris bikes etc and of course Epping is in Essex not in London as I well know
    And thanks to people like you is losing its Global Status because of Brexit.
  • This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    He's a 40/1 shot. Considering that any replacement for Theresa May as Prime Minister from within the Conservative party needs to have unquestionable experience and a public profile, that is surely too long a price. He's on a very short list of conceivables.

    I think he'd be a dismal choice but none of the options for the Conservatives look exactly compelling (and if any of them did, they'd already be in the post).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,657
    edited September 2017

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    London was still a top global city when he left, he thought up some interesting innovations like Boris bikes etc and of course Epping is in Essex not in London as I well know
    And thanks to people like you is losing its Global Status because of Brexit.
    Actually I voted Remain but I also respect democracy and the Leave vote and as far as I can see working in London it is still the main Global City in Europe and I doubt Brexit will do much to change that
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Hmmm.

    Corbyn is a man with a self-declared 'not a total pacifist, but with a low threshold for violence,' who shares a platform with terrorists.

    He is an anti-fascist who makes common cause with Holocaust Deniers.

    He is the man who campaigns against welfare cuts to be elected leader, yet promises to keep them in his election manifesto.

    He is the serial rebel who sacks people for disloyalty.

    He promises to 'deal with' student debts - then admits he wouldn't.

    He is the Brexiteer turned Remainer who wants to leave the Single Market because of democracy, until he doesn't.

    While very often his changes can be justified because of other events - Trident, where his party overruled him, for example - I think it's rather stretching it to say he's been 'consistent.' He has always, so far as I can judge, done what his target audience wanted him to do. That means he flip-flops or goes with the Scott Fitzgerald artistry, while claiming he isn't doing it because above all they like principled politicians.

    If he reminds me of any fictional figure it's Roy Bland - as a good socialist he's following the money, and as a good capitalist he's sticking with the revolution.
    Regarding your first two points, he has been entirely consistent. He has consistently sided with factions that oppose this country and the USA.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    edited September 2017
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Indeed and Boris at least has the executive experience of running a city of 8 million people

    Do you think he ran London well ?

    Spare me all the usual guff about how he got re-elected and how many votes he got. I'm a Londoner - apart from the bikes, there's very little evidence Boris was ever Mayor at all.

    He was all gimmicks - he milked the Olympics for which most of the work had been done in the Livingstone era and played for the cameras but in so many other areas, he did nothing.

    Did he fight Theresa May over the closure of local Police stations in places like East Ham and Epping ? I don't recall.

    Without in any way disagreeing with your comments on Boris - please name me one big, tangible achievement that Corbyn has to show for 34 years as an MP.

    You see my points?

    It's well known how much I loathe Corbyn. Boris at least has a sense of humour. However, all my reasons for hating Corbyn apply equally to him, apart from the one about stupidity - whatever else he is, Boris Johnson is certainly not stupid.

    That said, knowing that Corbyn is far more successful electorally than numerous deserving candidates, I do genuinely worry that Boris might win an election and be PM. The only thing that stands in the way is his lack of support in the PCP, which may stop him getting to the last two (and that's the real reason he was forced out last time, whatever he says in public).
    If Boris continues to top the polls as most favoured next Tory leader he will get to the final 2 with Davis (Tory MPs want to keep their seats above all) and Gove will be on board this time with a promise of a big job, Boris I think will then narrowly win with members, especially if it is after Davis has completed Brexit talks are talks
    Of course he'd win among the members. We all know that. I just very much doubt if he would get to that stage of the ballot. He'll have to show far more skill and success as a top politician to convince the backbenchers he's fit to be PM.

    But that also depends on who else is standing. If the Remainers coalesced around one candidate, oddly that would improve his chances.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,803
    edited September 2017

    @ydoethur Scott Fitzgerald artistry?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Hmmm.

    Corbyn is a man with a self-declared 'not a total pacifist, but with a low threshold for violence,' who shares a platform with terrorists.

    He is an anti-fascist who makes common cause with Holocaust Deniers.

    He is the man who campaigns against welfare cuts to be elected leader, yet promises to keep them in his election manifesto.

    He is the serial rebel who sacks people for disloyalty.

    He promises to 'deal with' student debts - then admits he wouldn't.

    He is the Brexiteer turned Remainer who wants to leave the Single Market because of democracy, until he doesn't.

    While very often his changes can be justified because of other events - Trident, where his party overruled him, for example - I think it's rather stretching it to say he's been 'consistent.' He has always, so far as I can judge, done what his target audience wanted him to do. That means he flip-flops or goes with the Scott Fitzgerald artistry, while claiming he isn't doing it because above all they like principled politicians.

    If he reminds me of any fictional figure it's Roy Bland - as a good socialist he's following the money, and as a good capitalist he's sticking with the revolution.
    @ydoethur Scott Fitzgerald artistry?
    "An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional."

    F Scott Fitzgerald.

    Roy Bland uses it to explain his contradictions, which is why I was thinking of it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,803
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Hmmm.

    Corbyn is a man with a self-declared 'not a total pacifist, but with a low threshold for violence,' who shares a platform with terrorists.

    He is an anti-fascist who makes common cause with Holocaust Deniers.

    He is the man who campaigns against welfare cuts to be elected leader, yet promises to keep them in his election manifesto.

    He is the serial rebel who sacks people for disloyalty.

    He promises to 'deal with' student debts - then admits he wouldn't.

    He is the Brexiteer turned Remainer who wants to leave the Single Market because of democracy, until he doesn't.

    While very often his changes can be justified because of other events - Trident, where his party overruled him, for example - I think it's rather stretching it to say he's been 'consistent.' He has always, so far as I can judge, done what his target audience wanted him to do. That means he flip-flops or goes with the Scott Fitzgerald artistry, while claiming he isn't doing it because above all they like principled politicians.

    If he reminds me of any fictional figure it's Roy Bland - as a good socialist he's following the money, and as a good capitalist he's sticking with the revolution.
    @ydoethur Scott Fitzgerald artistry?
    "An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional."

    F Scott Fitzgerald.

    Roy Bland uses it to explain his contradictions, which is why I was thinking of it.
    tack så mycket
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    I don't believe there will be a general election until at least 2021. The Tories would have to lose 7 by elections for the government to fall. The polls are tight at the moment and I do not believe that Labour will be ahead for long as a hubristic Corbynista leadership make more and more mistakes in the erroneous belief that the general election result was a vote of confidence in hard left policies. May has no choice at the moment but to say she will go on if her premiership is to function. As Elizabeth 1 observed, everyone is more interested in the rising sun and ignores the setting sun. The Tories should look to youth and to the backbenches for their next leader but I don't see Corbyn becoming PM and even if he did he would be the prisoner of the Liberals in a hung parliament.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157
    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    If we're talking about "character" and "suitability", it becomes a lot more subjective. I suspect the world won't end if either or indeed both Corbyn and Johnson become Prime Minister and I suspect the nature of the job will temper them in ways they won't appreciate.

    I think you can say (and many on here do) that Corbyn has been consistent in his views on a range of issues. You couldn't say the same about Boris - I've seen newly-landed fish on a riverbank which haven't flipped and flopped as much as Boris. It depends if that consistency is something you consider important in a Prime Minister.

    Hmmm.

    Corbyn is a man with a self-declared 'not a total pacifist, but with a low threshold for violence,' who shares a platform with terrorists.

    He is an anti-fascist who makes common cause with Holocaust Deniers.

    He is the man who campaigns against welfare cuts to be elected leader, yet promises to keep them in his election manifesto.

    He is the serial rebel who sacks people for disloyalty.

    He promises to 'deal with' student debts - then admits he wouldn't.

    He is the Brexiteer turned Remainer who wants to leave the Single Market because of democracy, until he doesn't.

    While very often his changes can be justified because of other events - Trident, where his party overruled him, for example - I think it's rather stretching it to say he's been 'consistent.' He has always, so far as I can judge, done what his target audience wanted him to do. That means he flip-flops or goes with the Scott Fitzgerald artistry, while claiming he isn't doing it because above all they like principled politicians.

    If he reminds me of any fictional figure it's Roy Bland - as a good socialist he's following the money, and as a good capitalist he's sticking with the revolution.
    @ydoethur Scott Fitzgerald artistry?
    "An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional."

    F Scott Fitzgerald.

    Roy Bland uses it to explain his contradictions, which is why I was thinking of it.
    tack så mycket
    Varsågod :smiley:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,884
    According to the Guardian "British pensioners who have retired to other EU countries will continue to have their healthcare paid for by the NHS post-Brexit, after a deal in principle was agreed by negotiators in Brussels.”

    Also 'Other areas of agreement included protection for “frontier workers”, those who live in one EU member state and work in another. This would include people who live in the UK and commute to Europe, or Britons settled in one country, for example Germany, who commute to work in another, say Luxembourg.

    Also, professional qualifications would be recognised across the bloc after Brexit, allowing lawyers, doctors, accountants, seafarers, train drivers and others who have moved to or from the UK to another EU country to work under their existing credentials.’

    Which is good news for the NHS!

    See https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/31/brexit-healthcare-deal-is-good-news-for-pensioners
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited September 2017

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    He's a 40/1 shot. Considering that any replacement for Theresa May as Prime Minister from within the Conservative party needs to have unquestionable experience and a public profile, that is surely too long a price. He's on a very short list of conceivables.

    I think he'd be a dismal choice but none of the options for the Conservatives look exactly compelling (and if any of them did, they'd already be in the post).
    I think 40/1 is indeed a good tip.

    He is surely amongst the 5 people who could feasibly take over the role at a moments notice:

    Hammond
    Davis
    Boris
    Gove
    Lord Hague (at a real push as caretaker)

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jezza is rightly favourite.

    What it takes is for the government to collapse before a leadership contest. That is quite possible and in such adverse circumstances Labour would be favourites, hence Jezza. Collapses happen suddenly and rarely give time for an orderly transition. Alternatively May may merely survive.
  • F1: nearly halfway into practice, rain appears to have arrived. No idea if it'll be wet on Saturday/Sunday.
  • Mortimer said:

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    He's a 40/1 shot. Considering that any replacement for Theresa May as Prime Minister from within the Conservative party needs to have unquestionable experience and a public profile, that is surely too long a price. He's on a very short list of conceivables.

    I think he'd be a dismal choice but none of the options for the Conservatives look exactly compelling (and if any of them did, they'd already be in the post).
    I think 40/1 is indeed a good tip.

    He is surely amongst the 5 people who could feasibly take over the role at a moments notice:

    Hammond
    Davis
    Boris
    Gove
    Lord Hague (at a real push as caretaker)

    I'd add Amber Rudd to that list. She's probably the closest thing that the Conservatives currently have to a unity candidate.
  • OchEye said:

    Oh Dear, the SNP have money problems and a dropping membership, must be true, it's on the beeb, just don't tell Malkie:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41120828

    Wouldn't the SNP, like all parties, have just spent a small fortune on elections and referenda?
    Didn't spend so much on the EU referendum.

    Odd that, what with them being so keen on the EU.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14934241.SNP_spent_less_on_EU_vote_than_it_did_fighting_a_by_election_in_Glenrothes/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:


    VW diesel scappage - £6k in UK , £9k in Germany

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41114738

    some animals are more equal than others

    Was just looking at these, as I have a 54 diesel just starting to get towards the end of its life and a petrol car would suit my needs better.

    What these schemes all have in common is that they are all wretched value for money compared to scrapping my car privately and buying something 2-3 years old.

    So I don't think I'll be taking this up.
    Yes, the new car prices are massively inflated in the first place, so this it is just another fake discount/incentive.
    From an economic point of view it is always better value to buy a nearly new car.
    The only exception to this is if you want to buy a Dacia.
    Is it still true that new cars are bad value? Let me emphasise I do not know, and do not drive which means I don't care enough to do the research but I do remember reading a couple of years ago that the combination of dealer discounts, cheap finance deals and long warranties meant the pendulum had swung back towards new.
    It depends if you're paying cash or financing. If you're a cash buyer then 1-6 months old is the value sweet spot for most cars. My wife paid 12k less than the RRP on her car and it had 780 miles on it!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,966
    Mr Dancer's tip for Bottas being fastest in FP1 is looking good.
    And there may be drizzle, which would seal it.

    Ferrari have (surprisingly ?) don't seem to have brought the expected new engine to Monza, so his race tip looks pretty decent as well.
  • F1: Alonso has a 35 place grid penalty.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    According to the Guardian "British pensioners who have retired to other EU countries will continue to have their healthcare paid for by the NHS post-Brexit, after a deal in principle was agreed by negotiators in Brussels.”

    Also 'Other areas of agreement included protection for “frontier workers”, those who live in one EU member state and work in another. This would include people who live in the UK and commute to Europe, or Britons settled in one country, for example Germany, who commute to work in another, say Luxembourg.

    Also, professional qualifications would be recognised across the bloc after Brexit, allowing lawyers, doctors, accountants, seafarers, train drivers and others who have moved to or from the UK to another EU country to work under their existing credentials.’

    Which is good news for the NHS!

    See https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/31/brexit-healthcare-deal-is-good-news-for-pensioners

    Agreement on recognizing EU and EEA professional qualifications is an interesting concession. It is a major bureaucratic barrier dropped that would permenantly advantage Greek or Polish NHS staff over non EU applicants. Getting professional registration otherwise often takes 6 months or more. Presumably it applies across other trades like building too.
  • Mr. B, if that bet doesn't come off now I'm blaming you for jinxing it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    Mortimer said:

    This is a market for mainly laying, not backing (in conjunction with the next Conservative leader market).

    Jeremy Corbyn is a lay for me. He might be the next but one but he's unlikely to be next.

    If you do want someone to back, Michael Gove at 40/1 looks worth considering. He's got the experience and stature, and his Conservative rivals' missteps may improve his chances by default. Since he's holidayed with the editor of the Evening Standard, he might well have newspaper backing at the right moment.

    He looks like a gimp, is a massive drama queen and enjoys plotting and leaking far too much.

    But, he is easily the cleverest and most able of everyone in the cabinet. Just look at how he makes a big impact in weeks wherever he goes. Education, Justice, Environment..
    He's a 40/1 shot. Considering that any replacement for Theresa May as Prime Minister from within the Conservative party needs to have unquestionable experience and a public profile, that is surely too long a price. He's on a very short list of conceivables.

    I think he'd be a dismal choice but none of the options for the Conservatives look exactly compelling (and if any of them did, they'd already be in the post).
    I think 40/1 is indeed a good tip.

    He is surely amongst the 5 people who could feasibly take over the role at a moments notice:

    Hammond
    Davis
    Boris
    Gove
    Lord Hague (at a real push as caretaker)

    I'd add Amber Rudd to that list. She's probably the closest thing that the Conservatives currently have to a unity candidate.
    I typed Rudd but then demurred - I don't think she has quite the stature necessary.

    That said, I haven't a clue what she stands for - which means you're likely entirely correct about her being a unity candidate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,157

    F1: Alonso has a 35 place grid penalty.

    How? Or is it two lots of 18 with one off for good behaviour?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,966
    edited September 2017

    F1: Alonso has a 35 place grid penalty.

    Sorry, Mr.D. the rain didn't come in time - Hamilton just went a bit quicker, and looks to have room to improve...

    (Alonso - and Honda - are thinking of Singapore.)
This discussion has been closed.