You may have a point about my rudimentary education, as I am struggling to make head or tail of what on earth you are talking about.
I suspect you are suggesting that it was OK for the Nazis to lawfully march on Charlottesville, but it was not OK for the Anti-Nazis to lawfully object as that was confrontational and it upset the Nazis. The result was one of them felt so justifiably outraged that he had to drive his car through the crowd of annoying Anti- Nazis. Yep! It was the young lady's fault she got mowed down by a ****-wit. I think I have it now!
1. It was ok for the protesters, some of whom may have been Nazis and many of whom were most likely deeply unpleasant, to protest
2. While legal, it was inflammatory of the antis to protest in person
3. I have no idea who started the fight but once it became a general brawl both sides were culpable
4. As for the murder, I don't know whether the individual came from Phio intending to do was he did or whether it was a crime of passion (the fact that the DA has gone for second degree murder suggests a lack of evidence of intention). However he clearly bears sole responsibility for his actions
5. What we can say, though, is that in inflaming the situation the antis contributed to the circumstances in which this awful crime happened, so they have a degree of indirect culpability
Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got
Due to my inferior education and intellect to your own I am still finding it difficult to agree with your rationale.
From a simpleton's point of view I will help you out with how I see the issue. Fascists (KKK, Nazis, call them what you like) have some pretty controversial views. I think it is wholly proper that people who disagree with those views make efforts to counter them so that people who have previously only been furnished with the fascist viewpoint can weigh up the alternative. If the fascists then get a bit uppity about that alternative view being promoted, and they decide to kill and maim their opposers, the culpability is wholly with the fascists.
Simple really!
Debate with them. Defeat their arguments. Turning up and calling them Nazis doesn't help.
Simple really
Perhaps we can at least agree that people carrying Nazi flags and wearing Hitler T shirts may reasonably be described as Nazis?
You may find that several people on PB will struggle with your deduction!
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
You may have a point about my rudimentary education, as I am struggling to make head or tail of what on earth you are talking about.
I suspect you are suggesting that it was OK for the Nazis to lawfully march on Charlottesville, but it was not OK for the Anti-Nazis to lawfully object as that was confrontational and it upset the Nazis. The result was one of them felt so justifiably outraged that he had to drive his car through the crowd of annoying Anti- Nazis. Yep! It was the young lady's fault she got mowed down by a ****-wit. I think I have it now!
1. It was ok for the protesters, some of whom may have been Nazis and many of whom were most likely deeply unpleasant, to protest
2. While legal, it was inflammatory of the antis to protest in person
3. I have no idea who started the fight but once it became a general brawl both sides were culpable
4. As for the murder, I don't know whether the individual came from Phio intending to do was he did or whether it was a crime of passion (the fact that the DA has gone for second degree murder suggests a lack of evidence of intention). However he clearly bears sole responsibility for his actions
5. What we can say, though, is that in inflaming the situation the antis contributed to the circumstances in which this awful crime happened, so they have a degree of indirect culpability
Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got
Due to my inferior education and intellect to your own I am still finding it difficult to agree with your rationale.
From a simpleton's point of view I will help you out with how I see the issue.
Simple really!
Debate with them. Defeat their arguments. Turning up and calling them Nazis doesn't help.
Simple really
Perhaps we can at least agree that people carrying Nazi flags and wearing Hitler T shirts may reasonably be described as Nazis?
You may find that several people on PB will struggle with your deduction!
I expect that they were just professors of social history wanting to preserve the historical record.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
What makes me laugh is the fact that some Tories believe that either Boris or JRM would make a credible leader of their party.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
What makes me laugh is the fact that some Tories believe that either Boris or JRM would make a credible leader of their party.
I think both could be good leaders of the opposition
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
You may have a point about my rudimentary education, as I am struggling to make head or tail of what on earth you are talking about.
I suspect you are suggesting that it was OK for the Nazis to lawfully march on Charlottesville, but it was not OK for the Anti-Nazis to lawfully object as that was confrontational and it upset the Nazis. The result was one of them felt so justifiably outraged that he had to drive his car through the crowd of annoying Anti- Nazis. Yep! It was the young lady's fault she got mowed down by a ****-wit. I think I have it now!
1. It was ok for the protesters, some of whom may have been Nazis and many of whom were most likely deeply unpleasant, to protest
2. While legal, it was inflammatory of the antis to protest in person
3. I have no idea who started the fight but once it became a general brawl both sides were culpable
4. As for the murder, I don't know whether the individual came from Phio intending to do was he did or whether it was a crime of passion (the fact that the DA has gone for second degree murder suggests a lack of evidence of intention). However he clearly bears sole responsibility for his actions
5. What we can say, though, is that in inflaming the situation the antis contributed to the circumstances in which this awful crime happened, so they have a degree of indirect culpability
Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got
Due to my inferior education and intellect to your own I am still finding it difficult to agree with your rationale.
From a simpleton's point of view I will help you out with how I see the issue.
Simple really!
Debate with them. Defeat their arguments. Turning up and calling them Nazis doesn't help.
Simple really
Perhaps we can at least agree that people carrying Nazi flags and wearing Hitler T shirts may reasonably be described as Nazis?
You may find that several people on PB will struggle with your deduction!
I expect that they were just professors of social history wanting to preserve the historical record.
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all).
Also, as was mentioned on an earlier thread one of the most inaccurate pollsters of GE2017
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
May as well have a USP! After all, being the wealthy Old Etonian isn't one any more.
Not sure if we've had the latest JRM promotional email retweeted on here tonight so here it is, hot from my Inbox:
Dear Geoffrey,
We're so excited!
Jacob has indicated to friends that he'll run for leader when the time is right!
While it's great to know that our work so far will not be in vain, it also means we have to work twice as hard to build a campaign that the Conservative establishment will be trying to stop.
Grassroots movements happen when friends talk to friends and tell them to get involved.
One of the best ways to spark conversation about Jacob running for leader is by showing your support right now. Add the banner below to your Facebook or Twitter profile pictures:
CLICK HERE TO ADD BANNER TO YOUR PROFILE PICTURE
Jacob has what it takes to lead the Conservative Party and reignite Britain's promise.
As we push on with our plans to ensure Jacob becomes leader, we need your support more than ever before.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
True, but if the Tories are going to abolish income tax that's about 180 billion a year they'll have to find from somewhere. The NHS will surely have to go, and they'll still need to find another 60 billion on top! In that scenario Labour's claims will sound utterly credible. Dangerous politics from Mogg.
You may have a point about my rudimentary education, as I am struggling to make head or tail of what on earth you are talking about.
I suspect you are suggesting that it was OK for the Nazis to lawfully march on Charlottesville, but it was not OK for the Anti-Nazis to lawfully object as that was confrontational and it upset the Nazis. The result was one of them felt so justifiably outraged that he had to drive his car through the crowd of annoying Anti- Nazis. Yep! It was the young lady's fault she got mowed down by a ****-wit. I think I have it now!
1. It was ok for the protesters, some of whom may have been Nazis and many of whom were most likely deeply unpleasant, to protest
2. While legal, it was inflammatory of the antis to protest in person
3. I have no idea who started the fight but once it became a general brawl both sides were culpable
4. As for the murder, I don't know whether the individual came from Phio intending to do was he did or whether it was a crime of passion (the fact that the DA has gone for second degree murder suggests a lack of evidence of intention). However he clearly bears sole responsibility for his actions
5. What we can say, though, is that in inflaming the situation the antis contributed to the circumstances in which this awful crime happened, so they have a degree of indirect culpability
Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got
Impressive to go from "he clearly bears sole responsibility" to you'd deserve everything you got in just one bullet point.
Direct responsibility vs indirect culpability. Big difference.
He should go to prison. They shouldn't. But they should consider whether their presence in some way contributed to this senseless killing
Do you always blame victims of terrorism or just when carried out by white Christians? A lot of double standards on here by pb tonight, next pbers will claim he had mental illness.
It's reminded people about Clarks at time when parents will be thinking about buying school shoes.
Most parents do not need reminding. It is hard to get decent, hardwearing kids shoes anywhere else.
Annoyingly, if you spend the money on Clark's they grow out of them. You have a perfectly good pair of shoes headed for the charity shop. If you don't they fall to bits anyway.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
I would like to return the state to the position prior to the First World War, so brilliantly evoked by AJP Taylor.
Nevertheless, if you are going to propose the abolition of income tax as well as reductions in some other taxes (such as stamp duty), then you should indicate how the books will be balanced. If we are to cast aside fiscal rectitude altogether, then we end up with a succession of governments, with each in turn proposing higher spending and lower taxes. Sort of like Greece, only without the nice weather.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
True, but if the Tories are going to abolish income tax that's about 180 billion a year they'll have to find from somewhere. The NHS will surely have to go, and they'll still need to find another 60 billion on top! In that scenario Labour's claims will sound utterly credible. Dangerous politics from Mogg.
Surely Trident would have to go under that scenario?
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
True, but if the Tories are going to abolish income tax that's about 180 billion a year they'll have to find from somewhere. The NHS will surely have to go, and they'll still need to find another 60 billion on top! In that scenario Labour's claims will sound utterly credible. Dangerous politics from Mogg.
Surely Trident would have to go under that scenario?
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Not sure if we've had the latest JRM promotional email retweeted on here tonight so here it is, hot from my Inbox:
Dear Geoffrey,
We're so excited!
Jacob has indicated to friends that he'll run for leader when the time is right!
While it's great to know that our work so far will not be in vain, it also means we have to work twice as hard to build a campaign that the Conservative establishment will be trying to stop.
Grassroots movements happen when friends talk to friends and tell them to get involved.
One of the best ways to spark conversation about Jacob running for leader is by showing your support right now. Add the banner below to your Facebook or Twitter profile pictures:
CLICK HERE TO ADD BANNER TO YOUR PROFILE PICTURE
Jacob has what it takes to lead the Conservative Party and reignite Britain's promise.
As we push on with our plans to ensure Jacob becomes leader, we need your support more than ever before.
Sincerely,
Anne Co-founder, Ready for Rees-Mogg
Very much the language of Momentum. (I received numerous similar sounding e-mails during the Election campaign). At least someone in the Conservative Party paid attention.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
What makes me laugh is the fact that some Tories believe that either Boris or JRM would make a credible leader of their party.
I think both could be good leaders of the opposition
Perfect. Ideally they could both be leaders of the two Tory factions after the Brexit induced split
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
True, but if the Tories are going to abolish income tax that's about 180 billion a year they'll have to find from somewhere. The NHS will surely have to go, and they'll still need to find another 60 billion on top! In that scenario Labour's claims will sound utterly credible. Dangerous politics from Mogg.
Surely Trident would have to go under that scenario?
Why? Depending on who you believe Trident will cost between £1b and £6b a year which isn't even a rounding error in this context.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
True, but if the Tories are going to abolish income tax that's about 180 billion a year they'll have to find from somewhere. The NHS will surely have to go, and they'll still need to find another 60 billion on top! In that scenario Labour's claims will sound utterly credible. Dangerous politics from Mogg.
Surely Trident would have to go under that scenario?
Why? Depending on who you believe Trident will cost between £1b and £6b a year which isn't even a rounding error in this context.
There are quite a few rounding errors in that scenario....But which ones will he choose?
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
The US system costs more per capita than ours.
More than twice as much. $9,451 per capita in the US versus $4,003 in the UK (using $ PPP).
But at least the US get's the benefit of higher life expectancy. Oh, wait...
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
EDIT: I seem to remember @Freetochoose wanted to stop paying NI and opt out of the NHS (even though NI is supposed to fund the state pension not the NHS).
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
How many other countries have adopted an identical system to the NHS?
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
There are many other systems, each with its own problems and some with advantages. Most have significant downsides too, but as well as the choice there is the transition.
Rich, healthy people favour consumerist systems, poorer sicker people favour systems with no upfront charges and universal access. The janitor appreciates getting the same care as the CEO, but that appreciation is not mutual.
EDIT: I seem to remember @Freetochoose wanted to stop paying NI and opt out of the NHS (even though NI is supposed to fund the state pension not the NHS).
If you want to make sure you have a low effective tax rate in the UK, make sure you're over 65 and living off investment income. Stark contrast to a plan II graduate heading into a PAYE job...
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
How many other countries have adopted an identical system to the NHS?
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
I can't be arsed to add them all up but it's certainly not "none". Sweden, Norway, Canada, New Zealand and Australia all spring to mind. Take a trawl through the following:
EDIT: I seem to remember @Freetochoose wanted to stop paying NI and opt out of the NHS (even though NI is supposed to fund the state pension not the NHS).
If you want to make sure you have a low effective tax rate in the UK, make sure you're over 65 and living off investment income. Stark contrast to a plan II graduate heading into a PAYE job...
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
There are many other systems, each with its own problems and some with advantages. Most have significant downsides too, but as well as the choice there is the transition.
Rich, healthy people favour consumerist systems, poorer sicker people favour systems with no upfront charges and universal access. The janitor appreciates getting the same care as the CEO, but that appreciation is not mutual.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
How many other countries have adopted an identical system to the NHS?
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
I can't be arsed to add them all up but it's certainly not "none". Sweden, Norway, Canada, New Zealand and Australia all spring to mind. Take a trawl through the following:
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
I would like to return the state to the position prior to the First World War, so brilliantly evoked by AJP Taylor.
Nevertheless, if you are going to propose the abolition of income tax as well as reductions in some other taxes (such as stamp duty), then you should indicate how the books will be balanced. If we are to cast aside fiscal rectitude altogether, then we end up with a succession of governments, with each in turn proposing higher spending and lower taxes. Sort of like Greece, only without the nice weather.
It's not that nice. I just did a very agreeable family holiday in Corfu and the average daily high was 38-40C. So hot you do not move from the villa and the pool. Ever.
We had a great time, but, wow. TOO hot really is a thing, it turns out.
There really is no escape. Once you get above body temperature, your metabolism kicks into cooling you down. Spent long evenings in the altogether with a high-powered fan pointing at me privates. I feel your pain. Longed for a drizzly Lancashire day. The difference between 35 and 40 degrees really is unbearable.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
How many other countries have adopted an identical system to the NHS?
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
I can't be arsed to add them all up but it's certainly not "none". Sweden, Norway, Canada, New Zealand and Australia all spring to mind. Take a trawl through the following:
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
TRUMP IS GREAT, I'M GLAD NAZIS ARE RUNNING OVER COMMIES
That has been discussed...
Whoever got run over was probably a pinko so they deserved it. Wankers. I hope this brave if over-ambitious driver gets off and has an asteroid named after him.
A right-winger who can both construct a logical argument and exhibit self-awareness. Not many of them to the euro atm.
Mogg to abolish income tax! Fair enough, but he needs to spell out precisely how he'll make up the shortfall, otherwise Labour will have a field day suggesting he'll close down the NHS.
That argument has been weakened by over-use. They accuse *everyone* of wanting to close down the NHS.
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
What would you have in it's place Geoff - a US-style system?
Yes. There are only two models of healthcare in existence. The NHS and the US model,
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
How many other countries have adopted an identical system to the NHS?
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
I can't be arsed to add them all up but it's certainly not "none". Sweden, Norway, Canada, New Zealand and Australia all spring to mind. Take a trawl through the following:
TRUMP IS GREAT, I'M GLAD NAZIS ARE RUNNING OVER COMMIES
That has been discussed...
Whoever got run over was probably a pinko so they deserved it. Wankers. I hope this brave if over-ambitious driver gets off and has an asteroid named after him.
She was a hot looking chick- you would have approved! The driver on the other hand is a dork!
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
Subdrop! Now you are talking a language I understand! No wolfhounds though, just a cat who snores,
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Do you
a) Want to win ? b) Have a realistic shot ?
a) Yes b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were on the same day as the 2015 general election. So yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Do you
a) Want to win ? b) Have a realistic shot ?
a) Yes b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were in 2015 so yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Do you
a) Want to win ? b) Have a realistic shot ?
a) Yes b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were in 2015 so yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
Yes, though I also have the local plan issue to contend with so am making clear I favour prioritising brownbelt land for any development. Anyway only a few more days campaigning to go and will post the result on Friday morning
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Do you
a) Want to win ? b) Have a realistic shot ?
a) Yes b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were in 2015 so yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
Yes, though I also have the local plan issue to contend with so am making clear I favour prioritising brownbelt land for any development. Anyway only a few more days campaigning to go and will post the result on Friday morning
Someone on the bbc paper review says a poll tonight puts the conservatives in the.lead - seems 42. - 39
No idea if it is true
Remarkably, it seems that the pattern established after Brexit is continuing. People not really changing their minds post-vote (this is MOE territory after all). No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised. For most people, not much is actually happening in domestic politics - Ministers are squabbling but getting most of the coverage, Corbyn is making some speeches, and that's about all for most people. I'd expect broad deadlock to continue until the conference season at least, or until there is some clarity on the direction of Brexit.
Politics - like politicalbetting.com - has become weirdly BORING, even though major things are happening.
I suspect we are seeing a kind of hangover effect, a "subdrop", if you will (for those in the BDSM community).
From Scottish indyref to election 2015 to Corbyn, Brexit and Trump we had an astonishing series of exciting and unprecedented political events. A diet so rich and sugary, for us anoraks, a supper of caviar in honey would appear austere in comparison.
What we have now is the pensive, tedious rebound. Everyone has supped too well. The feast is over, the tankards are scattered, and the wolfhounds snooze by the dying embers of the hearth. Occasionally someone burps, then falls asleep again. That is all.
Night night.
If PBers want some political excitement this week I am standing in the Epping Hemnall Town Council by election on Thursday
Do you
a) Want to win ? b) Have a realistic shot ?
a) Yes b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were in 2015 so yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
Yes, though I also have the local plan issue to contend with so am making clear I favour prioritising brownbelt land for any development. Anyway only a few more days campaigning to go and will post the result on Friday morning
Jesus christ just watching the bbc silicon valley programme and they rightly call out brietbart for fake news and then they give the canary a plug with no criticism for doing the same.
Jesus christ just watching the bbc silicon valley programme and they rightly call out brietbart for fake news and then they give the canary a plug with no criticism for doing the same.
Jesus christ just watching the bbc silicon valley programme and they rightly call out brietbart for fake news and then they give the canary a plug with no criticism for doing the same.
One man's fake news...
Indeed. I have never seen the canary (?) but once you get past their pet in-house hangups I find Breitbart extremely informative. I'm quite active below the line there under a new Disqus account.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Martin Niemöller
Niemoller is an inspirational man.
He was an exception in his later views, and he survived the war, unlike most of the Nazis' targets. In WW1 he served as an officer, and latterly commander, on U-boats, and was awarded the Iron Cross First Class for being particularly successful in sinking Allied shipping. He was a national conservative and initially a supporter of the Fuhrer, and expressed strongly anti-semitic views before he was arrested.
Most of the Lutheran church fully supported the 3rd Reich, which was putting some of Luther's core Christian views into practice in its crusade against non-believers.
You may have a point about my rudimentary education, as I am struggling to make head or tail of what on earth you are talking about.
I suspect you are suggesting that it was OK for the Nazis to lawfully march on Charlottesville, but it was not OK for the Anti-Nazis to lawfully object as that was confrontational and it upset the Nazis. The result was one of them felt so justifiably outraged that he had to drive his car through the crowd of annoying Anti- Nazis. Yep! It was the young lady's fault she got mowed down by a ****-wit. I think I have it now!
1. It was ok for the protesters, some of whom may have been Nazis and many of whom were most likely deeply unpleasant, to protest
2. While legal, it was inflammatory of the antis to protest in person
3. I have no idea who started the fight but once it became a general brawl both sides were culpable
4. As for the murder, I don't know whether the individual came from Phio intending to do was he did or whether it was a crime of passion (the fact that the DA has gone for second degree murder suggests a lack of evidence of intention). However he clearly bears sole responsibility for his actions
5. What we can say, though, is that in inflaming the situation the antis contributed to the circumstances in which this awful crime happened, so they have a degree of indirect culpability
Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got
Due to my inferior education and intellect to your own I am still finding it difficult to agree with your rationale.
From a simpleton's point of view I will help you out with how I see the issue. Fascists (KKK, Nazis, call them what you like) have some pretty controversial views. I think it is wholly proper that people who disagree with those views make efforts to counter them so that people who have previously only been furnished with the fascist viewpoint can weigh up the alternative. If the fascists then get a bit uppity about that alternative view being promoted, and they decide to kill and maim their opposers, the culpability is wholly with the fascists.
Simple really!
Debate with them. Defeat their arguments. Turning up and calling them Nazis doesn't help.
Simple really
They are walking around with Swastikas and Seig Heiling.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Martin Niemöller
Niemoller is an inspirational man.
He was an exception in his later views, and he survived the war, unlike most of the Nazis' targets. In WW1 he served as an officer, and latterly commander, on U-boats, and was awarded the Iron Cross First Class for being particularly successful in sinking Allied shipping. He was a national conservative and initially a supporter of the Fuhrer, and expressed strongly anti-semitic views before he was arrested.
Most of the Lutheran church fully supported the 3rd Reich, which was putting some of Luther's core Christian views into practice in its crusade against non-believers.
The Lutheran church explicitly and repeatedly rejected cooperation with Hitler, to the latter's great frustration as he wanted it on his side. He even offered it established church status but it was rejected. That was the reason Niemoller left to found the Confessing Church.
Claims to the contrary are easily traced to Christopher Hitchens (repeated by Richard Dawkins). Hitchens also believed that David Irving was not a Holocaust Denier, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that smoking cigarettes wouldn't damage his health.
Comments
If you're ever in this part of the world, we've started a family quiz night on the 2nd and 4th Thursdays of the month.
No idea if it is true
Annoyingly, nobody except me actually does.
No sign of either a Govt honeymoon, or a swing to the opposition.
Dear Geoffrey,
We're so excited!
Jacob has indicated to friends that he'll run for leader when the time is right!
While it's great to know that our work so far will not be in vain, it also means we have to work twice as hard to build a campaign that the Conservative establishment will be trying to stop.
Grassroots movements happen when friends talk to friends and tell them to get involved.
One of the best ways to spark conversation about Jacob running for leader is by showing your support right now. Add the banner below to your Facebook or Twitter profile pictures:
CLICK HERE TO ADD BANNER TO YOUR PROFILE PICTURE
Jacob has what it takes to lead the Conservative Party and reignite Britain's promise.
As we push on with our plans to ensure Jacob becomes leader, we need your support more than ever before.
Sincerely,
Anne
Co-founder, Ready for Rees-Mogg
Nevertheless, if you are going to propose the abolition of income tax as well as reductions in some other taxes (such as stamp duty), then you should indicate how the books will be balanced. If we are to cast aside fiscal rectitude altogether, then we end up with a succession of governments, with each in turn proposing higher spending and lower taxes. Sort of like Greece, only without the nice weather.
It's a stark choice but unfortunately there are no other options. The different flavours of insurance-based systems in Europe and elsewhere are figments of our imagination.
Sheesh
But at least the US get's the benefit of higher life expectancy. Oh, wait...
You may be right, there are no other options. Indeed there is only one rational option, which why virtually nobod except you (and maybe Rees-Mogg) wants to get rid of the NHS.
EDIT: I seem to remember @Freetochoose wanted to stop paying NI and opt out of the NHS (even though NI is supposed to fund the state pension not the NHS).
Please provide your answer to the nearest "None" to avoid rounding errors.
Rich, healthy people favour consumerist systems, poorer sicker people favour systems with no upfront charges and universal access. The janitor appreciates getting the same care as the CEO, but that appreciation is not mutual.
Stark contrast to a plan II graduate heading into a PAYE job...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_systems_by_country
I think you'll find that for the majority of developed countries health care is built around a publicly funded service.
Anyway, abolishing the NHS is about as likely a winning policy in the UK as making French the official language - neither is going to happen!
I'm the only person who really wants it and I've used up all my Illuminati credit points on getting Brexit and Trump.
*apologies for the inappropriate sexist language*
a) Want to win ?
b) Have a realistic shot ?
b) I am the Tory candidate and it is currently Tory held but 2/3 of the ward district councillors are LD and the last town council elections were on the same day as the 2015 general election. So yes I have a chance and have been campaigning but it will be a tough battle, though if we can get our voters out we have a real shot at it
http://www.eppingtowncouncil.gov.uk/single-post/2015/05/08/Election-Result-Hemnall-Ward
Most of the Lutheran church fully supported the 3rd Reich, which was putting some of Luther's core Christian views into practice in its crusade against non-believers.
They are Nazis.
Claims to the contrary are easily traced to Christopher Hitchens (repeated by Richard Dawkins). Hitchens also believed that David Irving was not a Holocaust Denier, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that smoking cigarettes wouldn't damage his health.