politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » There’s a case for saying that Johnson’s the best equipped to lead the Tories to Brexit and beyond
Whoever is the PM as we exit the EU will have a massive task on her/his hand selling the Brexit deal or other arrangement to the party and to the country as a whole.
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Skip a generation? She's a year younger than Dave is.
I cannot see Boris taking over until the Brexit negotiations are over, May is likely to continue until then. After the Brexit negotiations are completed is another matter though. The next Tory leader will have to be a charismatic Leaver who can keep Leave voters from defecting to UKIP if there is seen to be any 'sell out' on the transition period while the fact Boris has also shown he can win over swing voters when his opponent is a left winger, as he twice did in London against Livingstone, also boosts his case of leading the party against Corbyn
First unlike Boris. Would be very surprised if he made the final two.
In order to be certain to make the final two, he needs to win the support of more than a third of the Tory MP's. I don't think that he can do that. I am not convinced that DD can either. JRM may well be able to do so, as could Rudd or Hammond. What is pretty nailed on is that the most Leaver of the candidates will win the final party vote.
Though I have a very poor record on forecasting Tory leadership contests!
When he ferreted out of last leadership contest there were rumours, which I found credible, that someone had some serious beans to spill about him if he didn't step aside. That episode will be examined in great detail if he stands again.
The Queen is preparing to abdicate the throne and make Prince Charles the King, according to royal sources.
Queen Elizabeth, 92, is alleged to have told her inner circle of plans to hang up her crown at the age of 95.
Clarence House is making no comment about 'Plan Regency', which involves a piece of legislation called the Regency Act coming into force.
"I have spoken to a number of high-ranking courtiers who made it clear that preparations for a transition are moving ahead at pace," royal commentator for the Daily Mail, Robert Jobson, said.
"They have all confirmed that a Regency with Charles taking the lead is now, at the very least, a real possibility."
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Skip a generation? She's a year younger than Dave is.
OK but she is still pretty young compared to May. Also it's more a matter of style and tone than actual age.
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Skip a generation? She's a year younger than Dave is.
OK but she is still pretty young compared to May. Also it's more a matter of style and tone than actual age.
What are her qualifications? I know she is a Thatcherite who comes across well on TV (as TV professionals do).
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
FEWER.... However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Skip a generation? She's a year younger than Dave is.
OK but she is still pretty young compared to May. Also it's more a matter of style and tone than actual age.
What are her qualifications? I know she is a Thatcherite who comes across well on TV (as TV professionals do).
She would have made the cabinet in 2015 had she not lost her seat.
She's far too socially illiberal for my tastes, but I could live with her as party leader.
She'd eviscerate Corbyn and McDonnell, the latter of which she has form with.
A well argued piece but I'd be surprised if the party voted for him. personally I'd love to skip a generation - if the party had the courage to go for someone like Esther McVey they could motor again. Of course it won't happen.
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Skip a generation? She's a year younger than Dave is.
OK but she is still pretty young compared to May. Also it's more a matter of style and tone than actual age.
What are her qualifications? I know she is a Thatcherite who comes across well on TV (as TV professionals do).
I guess May was well qualified when she became leader. Need I say more.
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
FEWER.... However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
The 'less' reference was not me but nice try. It is totally comparableyou just would rather not see it.
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
FEWER.... However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
The 'less' reference was not me but nice try. It is totally comparableyou just would rather not see it.
If I was editing PB today, you would have got a thread entitled
Not that I've ever experienced it, but there's almost a religious fervour/devotion among many people when it comes to working for/knowing George Osborne
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
FEWER.... However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
The 'less' reference was not me but nice try. It is totally comparableyou just would rather not see it.
If I was editing PB today, you would have got a thread entitled
The Queen is preparing to abdicate the throne and make Prince Charles the King, according to royal sources.
Queen Elizabeth, 92, is alleged to have told her inner circle of plans to hang up her crown at the age of 95.
Clarence House is making no comment about 'Plan Regency', which involves a piece of legislation called the Regency Act coming into force.
"I have spoken to a number of high-ranking courtiers who made it clear that preparations for a transition are moving ahead at pace," royal commentator for the Daily Mail, Robert Jobson, said.
"They have all confirmed that a Regency with Charles taking the lead is now, at the very least, a real possibility."
As someone with Republican tendencies, Charles will do wonders for the Republican movement.
It's stll August. The silly season. I dread to think, though, what Private Eye will make of this. There is, of course, an opportunity for a betting market!
The Queen is preparing to abdicate the throne and make Prince Charles the King, according to royal sources.
Queen Elizabeth, 92, is alleged to have told her inner circle of plans to hang up her crown at the age of 95.
Clarence House is making no comment about 'Plan Regency', which involves a piece of legislation called the Regency Act coming into force.
"I have spoken to a number of high-ranking courtiers who made it clear that preparations for a transition are moving ahead at pace," royal commentator for the Daily Mail, Robert Jobson, said.
"They have all confirmed that a Regency with Charles taking the lead is now, at the very least, a real possibility."
As someone with Republican tendencies, Charles will do wonders for the Republican movement.
The last Prince Regent, George IV, did not exactly set a good precedent but he only reigned for a few years as King. I cannot see Charles reigning for long given he is almost 70, he is Edward VII to his mother's Victoria, the future of the monarchy is William, Kate (plus kids) and Harry all of whom have the blood of Diana in them, probably the most world famous, popular, iconic and charismatic figure this country produced in the last half century. If Charles had been succeeded by the offspring of himself and Camilla Parker Bowles I could not see the monarchy lasting long, Diana for all the problems she brought the monarchy has ultimately saved it longer term
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
Evocative language. What do you want, and what is it that you think you might not get?
I want less Nazi's ramming crowds of people.
1. To be pedantic lose the apostrophe you put in Nazis. 2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
FEWER.... However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
The 'less' reference was not me but nice try. It is totally comparableyou just would rather not see it.
It really isn't the same. Trump is employed to lead the USA. His words and actions carry weight in the USA. What Corbyn does or does not say makes the square root of bugger all difference to what happens in Venezuela.
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
His mother wasn't, which is the crucial test.
There's a long standing legend about the Scots being one of the lost tribes of Israel..
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
His mother wasn't, which is the crucial test.
There's a long standing legend about the Scots being one of the lost tribes of Israel..
Well it would help answer that 'and did those feet in ancient time' question.
Anyway the point of the previous comments was mainly to say that whatever ideas you might have and whatever beliefs you might have, there is no stigma whatsoever from the actions of others that happen to share that belief or set of ideas. None.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
His mother wasn't, which is the crucial test.
There's a long standing legend about the Scots being one of the lost tribes of Israel..
Well it would help answer that 'and did those feet in ancient time' question.
That refers to England's green and pleasant land. Malcolm will explain to you that England and Scotland are different. If you ask him nicely!
It is pretty astonishing that the Donald has a Jewish daughter, Son in Law and grandchildren, but is not willing to speak out about Nazi flag waving Trump supporters.
are you now blaming the jews for it ?
I don't think Donald is Jewish, though he does have German heritage.
His mother wasn't, which is the crucial test.
There's a long standing legend about the Scots being one of the lost tribes of Israel..
Well it would help answer that 'and did those feet in ancient time' question.
That refers to England's green and pleasant land. Malcolm will explain to you that England and Scotland are different. If you ask him nicely!
Look, if Kevin Costner's Robin Hood can get to Dover to Nottingham via Hadrian's Wall, anything is possible.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
To be fair I'm not sure anyone on here has condoned the murder or Trump's ridiculous comments. Most of the discussion on here was about the decision to take down the statue. Personally I don't agree with it but it's their town and their decision. Just as Charlie Hebdo weren't to blame for their own massacre (though I do think that publication is a bit twattish), the council in Charlottesville shouldn't be blamed for what's happened.
So when does James Chapman take over as Political Editor at the London Evening Freesheet?
We'll never hear from him ever again. It was a sounding exercise. Osborne really have to just get on with being an editor now. He may well find that many of his acquaintance cross streets to avoid him.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
20 years hence when most of the leavers will be have gone to the Great Daily Mail Comments Section in the Sky a rejoin referendum will pass easily.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars.
I agree. The UK is now riven in a way I have never seen and I'm fucking fifty!
I have no idea how the tensions are going to erupt but it's not going to be pleasant.
Yep. Before I got involved with online political discussions I used to think differently. However, since that's happened I've gradually learned that the kind of shared values which I thought we all shared - or at least most of us - well, that's not the case at all.
Despite his flaws, I am seeing more and more why Cameron's detoxification of the Conservative Party was necessary.
I definitely am starting to feel a sense of us versus them, and I am understanding more as to why so many of my age group are getting caught up in it, even though I am still very anti-Corbyn.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
There's a lot of critique of the American zeitgeist going on from people who know no more about the American zeitgeist than I do. Billie Holiday recorded Strange Fruit in 1939, the "strange fruit" being the bodies of lynched black men hanging from Southern magnolia trees. It isn't the case that there was then a blissful interlude of general niceness and interracial harmony rudely terminated by the rise of Trumpery. This is just American business as usual, and the fear that it is now about to cross the Atlantic is overblown.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
I actually think it is more likely Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Poland eventually leave the EU and join EFTA than we ever rejoin the EU, on our departure the EU will become increasingly focused on the Eurozone making our rejoining almost an impossibility
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
20 years hence when most of the leavers will be have gone to the Great Daily Mail Comments Section in the Sky a rejoin referendum will pass easily.
That's my fear. I'm not sure I've got another 20 years!
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
20 years hence when most of the leavers will be have gone to the Great Daily Mail Comments Section in the Sky a rejoin referendum will pass easily.
No country ever steps in the same EU twice, for it is not the same EU and not the same country.
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
20 years hence when most of the leavers will be have gone to the Great Daily Mail Comments Section in the Sky a rejoin referendum will pass easily.
No country ever steps in the same EU twice, for it is not the same EU and not the same country.
Heraclitus.
Are you saying that people who wish to enter the EU are wets, Ishmael?
The Boris magic has long since faded. I'm not sure the Tory party will ever be truly happy. They had a brief period when they pretended Theresa was a latter-day Maggie but that went horribly sour. I suspect only Rees-Mogg as leader would make the Tories feel comfortable about themselves again, or possibly even Farage if he could be persuaded.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
There's a lot of critique of the American zeitgeist going on from people who know no more about the American zeitgeist than I do. Billie Holiday recorded Strange Fruit in 1939, the "strange fruit" being the bodies of lynched black men hanging from Southern magnolia trees. It isn't the case that there was then a blissful interlude of general niceness and interracial harmony rudely terminated by the rise of Trumpery. This is just American business as usual, and the fear that it is now about to cross the Atlantic is overblown.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
We really don't have the legacy of racial tension to the same extent. Basically, half the country had to fight the other half before ending slavery. We generally agreed it had been bad. Nor do fundamentalist religions have such a hold on our politics. So we won't see "culture wars" in the same way. The voting differentials between generations are economically driven. Re Charlottesville A democratically elected council voted to sell a statue. A bunch of people not connected to the City decided they didn't like it, organised Online and turned up mob-handed and in many cases armed, resulting in 3 deaths. They are out of order, because if they don't live there it is none of their business. Or am I missing something?
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
There's a lot of critique of the American zeitgeist going on from people who know no more about the American zeitgeist than I do. Billie Holiday recorded Strange Fruit in 1939, the "strange fruit" being the bodies of lynched black men hanging from Southern magnolia trees. It isn't the case that there was then a blissful interlude of general niceness and interracial harmony rudely terminated by the rise of Trumpery. This is just American business as usual, and the fear that it is now about to cross the Atlantic is overblown.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
We really don't have the legacy of racial tension to the same extent. Basically, half the country had to fight the other half before ending slavery. We generally agreed it had been bad. Nor do fundamentalist religions have such a hold on our politics. So we won't see "culture wars" in the same way. The voting differentials between generations are economically driven. Re Charlottesville A democratically elected council voted to sell a statue. A bunch of people not connected to the City decided they didn't like it, organised Online and turned up mob-handed and in many cases armed, resulting in 3 deaths. They are out of order, because if they don't live there it is none of their business. Or am I missing something?
Of course they are (understating it hugely) "out of order". Whoever would, or has, suggest anything else?
I think he's gone off the reservation a bit. I wonder if he'll end up being sectioned once we leave, genuine question, not just being facetious. He seems utterly wedded to the EU, even more than his master.
We're not going to leave the EU. This is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before its influence on our politics is extinguished.
We are, Article 50 has been invoked and even many Remainers now accept that. We may eventually rejoin the EEA/EFTA and have a Norway/Switzerland type relationship with the EU if we get a moderate Labour PM again but we are leaving the EU for good
Nearly right. We're leaving the EU but I very much it will be for good, and I'm certain it won't be for ever. I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
20 years hence when most of the leavers will be have gone to the Great Daily Mail Comments Section in the Sky a rejoin referendum will pass easily.
No as that would probably require joining the Euro which 82% oppose not 52%
The Boris magic has long since faded. I'm not sure the Tory party will ever be truly happy. They had a brief period when they pretended Theresa was a latter-day Maggie but that went horribly sour. I suspect only Rees-Mogg as leader would make the Tories feel comfortable about themselves again, or possibly even Farage if he could be persuaded.
Well Irish banditry won't produce many advocates, but the status quo might. Historically 'no change' has been an awful policy, but it has been a little better than adapting to changes that were predicted at the time. Socialism in contrast has not had one glimmer of success, rather a train of disaster.
This Year Zero approach to history and culture will not end well. I don't think Mao's China or contemporary South Africa are models to emulate.
Howabout 1922 Ireland? 1947 India? 1989 Eastern Europe? Should those statues of Stalin go back up? Those statues of Saddam Hussien? When KimJung Un gets bumped off should his statues remain?
Removing statues, and renaming places has a history as long as human history. Why should we stop now?
The Boris magic has long since faded. I'm not sure the Tory party will ever be truly happy. They had a brief period when they pretended Theresa was a latter-day Maggie but that went horribly sour. I suspect only Rees-Mogg as leader would make the Tories feel comfortable about themselves again, or possibly even Farage if he could be persuaded.
David Davis, whose face is increasingly coming to resemble a female baboon's pudenda in estrus as the Brexit catastrophe unravels, could be just the intellectually limited golf club bore for which the Conservative core is hankering.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
There's a lot of critique of the American zeitgeist going on from people who know no more about the American zeitgeist than I do. Billie Holiday recorded Strange Fruit in 1939, the "strange fruit" being the bodies of lynched black men hanging from Southern magnolia trees. It isn't the case that there was then a blissful interlude of general niceness and interracial harmony rudely terminated by the rise of Trumpery. This is just American business as usual, and the fear that it is now about to cross the Atlantic is overblown.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
We really don't have the legacy of racial tension to the same extent. Basically, half the country had to fight the other half before ending slavery. We generally agreed it had been bad. Nor do fundamentalist religions have such a hold on our politics. So we won't see "culture wars" in the same way. The voting differentials between generations are economically driven. Re Charlottesville A democratically elected council voted to sell a statue. A bunch of people not connected to the City decided they didn't like it, organised Online and turned up mob-handed and in many cases armed, resulting in 3 deaths. They are out of order, because if they don't live there it is none of their business. Or am I missing something?
If the anti-protesters hadn't turned up there wouldn't have been a riot and likely wouldn't have been the deaths.
The Boris magic has long since faded. I'm not sure the Tory party will ever be truly happy. They had a brief period when they pretended Theresa was a latter-day Maggie but that went horribly sour. I suspect only Rees-Mogg as leader would make the Tories feel comfortable about themselves again, or possibly even Farage if he could be persuaded.
David Davis, whose face is increasingly coming to resemble a female baboon's pudenda in estrus as the Brexit catastrophe unravels, could be just the intellectually limited golf club bore for which the Conservative core is hankering.
Agree with @foxinsoxuk from the previous thread we are heading for US style culture wars. Faisal Islam also mentioned this in a recent article on Sky News' website as well. Seeing reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here only confirms my belief that's what we are heading to.
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
There's a lot of critique of the American zeitgeist going on from people who know no more about the American zeitgeist than I do. Billie Holiday recorded Strange Fruit in 1939, the "strange fruit" being the bodies of lynched black men hanging from Southern magnolia trees. It isn't the case that there was then a blissful interlude of general niceness and interracial harmony rudely terminated by the rise of Trumpery. This is just American business as usual, and the fear that it is now about to cross the Atlantic is overblown.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
We really don't have the legacy of racial tension to the same extent. Basically, half the country had to fight the other half before ending slavery. We generally agreed it had been bad. Nor do fundamentalist religions have such a hold on our politics. So we won't see "culture wars" in the same way. The voting differentials between generations are economically driven. Re Charlottesville A democratically elected council voted to sell a statue. A bunch of people not connected to the City decided they didn't like it, organised Online and turned up mob-handed and in many cases armed, resulting in 3 deaths. They are out of order, because if they don't live there it is none of their business. Or am I missing something?
Of course they are (understating it hugely) "out of order". Whoever would, or has, suggest anything else?
Was not suggesting you or anyone else was. Just wondering if I had missed some part of the story.
Comments
OT : I see the deranged Mr. Chapman is tweeting again quite unpleasantly. He really does come across as one arrogant POS!
Incidentally received my Tory member renewal 'card' and as usual it's fallen apart whilst removing it from the letter....
"Both sides are bad m'kay"
Hammond as PM and Fox as Chancellor by next July at the latest.
Though I have a very poor record on forecasting Tory leadership contests!
'I condemn the violence on both sides'
When he ferreted out of last leadership contest there were rumours, which I found credible, that someone had some serious beans to spill about him if he didn't step aside. That episode will be examined in great detail if he stands again.
An abdication.
The Queen is preparing to abdicate the throne and make Prince Charles the King, according to royal sources.
Queen Elizabeth, 92, is alleged to have told her inner circle of plans to hang up her crown at the age of 95.
Clarence House is making no comment about 'Plan Regency', which involves a piece of legislation called the Regency Act coming into force.
"I have spoken to a number of high-ranking courtiers who made it clear that preparations for a transition are moving ahead at pace," royal commentator for the Daily Mail, Robert Jobson, said.
"They have all confirmed that a Regency with Charles taking the lead is now, at the very least, a real possibility."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/queen-preparing-abdicate-throne-make-10980369
As someone with Republican tendencies, Charles will do wonders for the Republican movement.
https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/896772219451396096
2. Trump is talking in exactly the same mode as Corbyn about Venezuela - about which the left has nothing to say.
but we look over it, we let it pass by it's not the done thing to talk about it
However, Corbyn is not and never will be President of Venezuela. So that is not really comparable.
She's far too socially illiberal for my tastes, but I could live with her as party leader.
She'd eviscerate Corbyn and McDonnell, the latter of which she has form with.
I see you think Nazis are incapable of it, but really they are
'Trump and Corbyn, two cheeks of the same arse'
https://youtu.be/ZTT1qUswYL0
https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist/status/896713553666871296
There is, of course, an opportunity for a betting market!
I want less of Mr Smith from 47 Artillery Crescent ramming people, but his actions are not to be held at the door of his Nazi (or otherwise) brethren.
I mean, no responsible parent dresses a child that young in white, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
https://twitter.com/TrueFactsStated/status/896785919553961984
Life, you know - I try!
Then again, PB may not be entirely representative.
Here's the Fasial Islam article if anyone's interested: http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-hacienda-generation-threat-to-tories-10977698
There is one outstanding candidate, who has excelled on the front bench and in front of tricky media scrutiny.
That person is....
Chloe Smith
I have no idea how the tensions are going to erupt but it's not going to be pleasant.
If you ask him nicely!
I hope I'm still around to see the celebrations when we rejoin.
OK, so I won't, but I will burnish my lefty credentials by saying I went to one of their gigs when I was a student.
Despite his flaws, I am seeing more and more why Cameron's detoxification of the Conservative Party was necessary.
I definitely am starting to feel a sense of us versus them, and I am understanding more as to why so many of my age group are getting caught up in it, even though I am still very anti-Corbyn.
I don't see what "reactions to what happened in Charlottesville on here" you mean, incidentally. You may be diagnosing thoughtcrime to a greater extent than the text will stand.
the question was incorrectly premised.
Heraclitus.
This Year Zero approach to history and culture will not end well. I don't think Mao's China or contemporary South Africa are models to emulate.
So we won't see "culture wars" in the same way. The voting differentials between generations are economically driven.
Re Charlottesville
A democratically elected council voted to sell a statue. A bunch of people not connected to the City decided they didn't like it, organised Online and turned up mob-handed and in many cases armed, resulting in 3 deaths. They are out of order, because if they don't live there it is none of their business.
Or am I missing something?
(I suspect that George may have meant that comment to have a much less pleasant interpretation than Chapman has inferred)
Removing statues, and renaming places has a history as long as human history. Why should we stop now?
Getting someone sacked for their beliefs undermines free speech and drives hate underground
Basically it's been about many white people mainly from the south denying black people are equal to them. That is the crux of the matter.