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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: End of term review

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    Before the referendum I seem to remember that any concerns about the legacy of the Leave campaign were dismissed by confident predictions that the people delivering it would be grown up Tories, not dangerous Kippers.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway and completely off topic, my news - and the reason I have largely been absent from PB and will likely be for a while - is that I have after 34 years in the industry and nearly 14 years in my current job (which has been relentless hard work) decided to take a break - a sabbatical from full-time employment, at least for now.

    Not an easy decision to take but the right one. I want to get my health back on track, to live a more balanced and relaxed life, spend times with those I love and enjoy - as I did the other day - the simple pleasures of paddling in the sea in sunshine followed by a delicious crab sandwich and later the joys of a flaming sunset over the coast.

    :+1: It is a difficult thing to do but it is the right thing to do and I can fully sympathise with you because a few years ago I had to do something similar. At the end of the day, in 100 years, no one will remember any of us so who are we trying to impress? It is far, far better to enjoy the time we have. No one on their deathbed says "I wish I had spent more time at the office"

    Cyclefree said:

    I am I confess a little apprehensive about embarking on the self-employed life but also quite excited too. And I may surprise myself. No going gently into that good night for me! I have my first retainer already so I won't be - quite yet - sitting outside Morrisons with a dog at the end of a piece of string begging......

    Go for it - I am sure you will do great!

    It is funny how parallels crop up. Brexit has forced me to consider changes and after 21 years running my own business I have decided on a career change. I too have those apprehensive feelings but I am determined my new career will be a success even though it is probably the biggest gamble I have ever taken.
    Cyclefree said:

    I may even have a bit of time for some PB articles, despite politics being really quite unappealing at present.

    Sometimes you just have to take risks.

    Politics is very unappealing at the moment, but risks just add flavour and spice to your day ;)

    Have a great holiday and good luck with the new career when you return
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,926



    Grant Shapps, the only Tory Chairman* to win a majority in the last 25 years**.

    *Well Co-Chairman.

    **He Dave's leadership and George's magnficient stewardship of the economy to sell to the country, not surprising he oversaw a Tory majority.

    He may well have been a good co-chairman.
    Doesn't strike me as a very honest or nice person though.

    I give Cameron more credit on leadership now that I see what he had to put up with in his own party. George was a dreadful chancellor but a canny politician.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway and completely off topic, my news - and the reason I have largely been absent from PB and will likely be for a while - is that I have after 34 years in the industry and nearly 14 years in my current job (which has been relentless hard work) decided to take a break - a sabbatical from full-time employment, at least for now.

    Not an easy decision to take but the right one. I want to get my health back on track, to live a more balanced and relaxed life, spend times with those I love and enjoy - as I did the other day - the simple pleasures of paddling in the sea in sunshine followed by a delicious crab sandwich and later the joys of a flaming sunset over the coast.

    I shall be mostly in the Lakes and Canada for much of the next few months and will then be reappearing with the investigations consultancy I have been planning for a while. And I shall be doing some teaching/training/mentoring and continuing with my "The Only Way is Ethics" series of talks. If the City's moral behaviour does not improve, it won't be for want of trying on my part!

    I am I confess a little apprehensive about embarking on the self-employed life but also quite excited too. And I may surprise myself. No going gently into that good night for me! I have my first retainer already so I won't be - quite yet - sitting outside Morrisons with a dog at the end of a piece of string begging......

    I may even have a bit of time for some PB articles, despite politics being really quite unappealing at present.

    Sometimes you just have to take risks.

    You will never look back on the imprisonment of PAYE with fondness! Good luck
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,812

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    Can't resist a dig, can you?

    It's this sort of thing that reinforces internal Tory partisanship and division.

    I call it as fairly as I can as I see it, on all sides of the party. Don't try and exploit my reservations where we do agree for your own ends.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843
    Apologies for a too late comment for the previous thread.

    The problem the SNP face is there is little reason to vote for them, unless you think the most important issue is independence for Scotland, NOW! For the past decade they have run an administration in Holyrood that could charitably be described as mediocre. So they won't get your vote on a competence ticket. If you think there needs to be new faces and new ideas, even if not necessarily better, you will be looking at other parties. There are loads of issues - Brexit, education, the Scottish economy etc - that are neglected as long as independence is given pride of place. It doesn't look like independence is going to happen soon, not least because the Nicola Sturgeon has semi-ruled it out.
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    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843
    @Cyclefree. Good luck! You will never regret moving on from a situation you don't enjoy.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Back on topic, or at least one part of it.... The Labour Party are hopelessly split over the EU, as Umunna`s tweet shows. Labour politicians are all promoting their own line for their own particular audience, and hoping that people believe that this is what the next Labour government (???) is committed to. They did this during the general election campaign, and got away with it. But it cannot go on for ever. Or can it?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Meeks, what about a female Doctor washed in chlorine?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    edited July 2017
    Off-topic:

    A long, but interesting (*) video on how Intel have been misbehaving in the market for over three decades, and how regulators and the law are far too slow to react.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osSMJRyxG0k

    The sums Intel were paying to companies to skew markets are staggering.

    (*) to me at least.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Nigel "seven elections" Farage. Think about that.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Meeks, what about a female Doctor washed in chlorine?

    Sounds like a more promising plotline than usual.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    Can't resist a dig, can you?

    It's this sort of thing that reinforces internal Tory partisanship and division.

    I call it as fairly as I can as I see it, on all sides of the party. Don't try and exploit my reservations where we do agree for your own ends.
    I was just pointing out that Brexit needs to be successful for the sake of country, if it isn't we will all paying the price.

    Those four are likely to ensure we get the worst possible Brexit, the last thing I want is for it to becomes inevitable that the UK rejoins the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Ishmael_Z said:

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Nigel "seven elections" Farage. Think about that.
    They lost a referendum to Boris and Gove.

    They'd have won a referendum against Farage.

    Why do you think Vote Leave tried to hide Farage in a fridge for the campaign?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Off topic, Lord's is a dump compared to The Oval.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    Incidentally, as with cars which are bolted together from components made in different countries, so with food. Those American chickens may well have been raised in one part of America, slaughtered in another and then sailed half-way round the world to be butchered and then labelled and sold as American, so even if you trust Mr Trump's chicken inspectors, what about those in the Far East or wherever?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Nigel "seven elections" Farage. Think about that.
    They lost a referendum to Boris and Gove.

    They'd have won a referendum against Farage.

    Why do you think Vote Leave tried to hide Farage in a fridge for the campaign?
    OK, let me reword:

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Boris and Gove. Think about that.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Eagles, indeed. But the effort to bring Farage into the voters' minds by the Little England phraseology was bloody stupid.

    Not that either campaign was terribly good.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    As a Chelsea fan I'm not convinced Morata will settle immediately, but long term he looks a good signing.

    I've had an each way bet for Batshuayi top scorer at 40/1, he is a scoring machine and will get goals IF he gets the opportunity in terms of playing time.

    He had the best goals per minute played ratio last season, admittedly from a small number of games played, but if gets enough game time he will be up there.
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    Alice_AforethoughtAlice_Aforethought Posts: 772
    edited July 2017
    PClipp said:

    Back on topic, or at least one part of it.... The Labour Party are hopelessly split over the EU, as Umunna`s tweet shows. Labour politicians are all promoting their own line for their own particular audience, and hoping that people believe that this is what the next Labour government (???) is committed to. They did this during the general election campaign, and got away with it. But it cannot go on for ever. Or can it?

    White Wednesday is a parallel. Some of Labour supported ERM entry and supported staying in. Others didn't. Then when we crashed out, they aligned to portray it as a disaster they'd have skilfully avoided and reaped the political benefit.

    Arguably the same happened to their disadvantage with the GFC, except that Labour's inept regulation and chronic overborrowing made it likelier and worse.

    I'm surprised you point as this as a failing though. You are a LibDem supporter as I recall, a party whose whole electoral pitched is based on being all things to all swing voters - homophobic when helpful against Peter Tatchell, and so on - if indeed being anything at all. Just the other day we were discussing what would be good policies for the LibDems, a sure sign that they've no principles to instruct them.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217

    Mr. Eagles, indeed. But the effort to bring Farage into the voters' minds by the Little England phraseology was bloody stupid.

    Not that either campaign was terribly good.

    Are you saying that Farage epitomises 'Little England' in the voters' minds?

    I didn't expect voters to be quite so perceptive. ;)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Jessop, don't be a tinker.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,339
    edited July 2017
    So Stewpot is now a leading figure in the government's Brexit task force, is he? Now, I had no problem with him when he posted here - for an MP to eschew the norms of reasoned debate and good manners seemed somehow darkly refreshing. Nevertheless, his past pronouncements and current mien are a huge hostage to fortune. Leave cannot afford to have brand Brexit sullied further than it has been already. Leave need to start projecting love, joy and stardust unto the world. I'm not convinced that Jacko is quite the man to facilitate that.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Nigel "seven elections" Farage. Think about that.
    They lost a referendum to Boris and Gove.

    They'd have won a referendum against Farage.

    Why do you think Vote Leave tried to hide Farage in a fridge for the campaign?
    OK, let me reword:

    If it's point at politicians and laugh day, your posh boy with home advantage and a following wind lost a referendum to Boris and Gove. Think about that.
    They misunderestimated Judas Gove and the career ambitions of Johnson.

    Still Dave's the only the Tory to win a majority in the last quarter of a century.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
    I should hope so! Doesn't all living matter have DNA in?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    As a Chelsea fan I'm not convinced Morata will settle immediately, but long term he looks a good signing.

    I've had an each way bet for Batshuayi top scorer at 40/1, he is a scoring machine and will get goals IF he gets the opportunity in terms of playing time.

    He had the best goals per minute played ratio last season, admittedly from a small number of games played, but if gets enough game time he will be up there.
    Jose was keen on Morata.

    I think he'll be more Torres at Liverpool than Torres at Chelsea.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
    I should hope so! Doesn't all living matter have DNA in?
    Yes. Trolling. Sorry.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.

    Chlorinated chicken is merely the symbol of a wider point: any FTA we have with the US will be one that they will dictate the terms of. We are not even talking about the possibility of the Americans accepting current British food standards. And that's because no-one believes it is remotely possible they would.
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    Alice_AforethoughtAlice_Aforethought Posts: 772
    edited July 2017
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Melanie Phillips - yes, really - has written everything that needs to be said about Charlie Gard's case:

    http://www.melaniephillips.com/cruel-ignorant-campaign/

    Indeed she has. A very sad case. Emotion based on ignorance can be dangerous.
    I cannot imagine anything likelier to unhinge a parent than the thought that your tiny child needs to die.
    I was referring to the emotion of the supporters not the poor parents. They are in a special sort of hell and one can only have sympathy for them. Thinking that your child, however old they are, may die does drive you mad. Believe me, I know.
    I hope your career change goes well for you. I did the same thing in the same sector in reverse a few years ago. Although the money was better self employed the hassle over VAT was appalling. I would bill £100k in one quarter and nothing in another and HMRC would then send me VAT demands for £20,232 for that quarter. I would phone up and ask what the hell they were on about, and they actually admitted (on a recorded line) that they just fabricate bills to get your attention. They use stupid numbers to look like it's calculated rather than made-up and they assume that your VAT is always much the same.

    These bills come accompanied by threats and they are not empty. Once they sent bailiffs to my house to collect a made-up VAT bill they had sent, having not noticed my actual, nil, VAT return. On another they told me in two letters from two different offices that I had underpaid 2010 PAYE by £40k and owed £40k PAYE for 2011 (they had of course transposed the years). They are untouchable, unaccountable, and malicious.

    That wasn't what put me off self-employment though. It was that while I was working I felt I couldn't take time off because I'd lose £8k a week. But when I wasn't working (and wouldn't losing work) I felt like I couldn't take time off then either because I should be looking for work.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    As a Chelsea fan I'm not convinced Morata will settle immediately, but long term he looks a good signing.

    I've had an each way bet for Batshuayi top scorer at 40/1, he is a scoring machine and will get goals IF he gets the opportunity in terms of playing time.

    He had the best goals per minute played ratio last season, admittedly from a small number of games played, but if gets enough game time he will be up there.
    Jose was keen on Morata.

    I think he'll be more Torres at Liverpool than Torres at Chelsea.
    Certainly hope so!
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Completely off topic but a worthwhile cause and apologies if it is not appropriate to post it here, but some may be interested.

    A friend of mine has completed the worldwide patent and trademark for the OX, and they have set up a crowdfunding campaign to send two of them to Africa, interesting concept:

    http://oxgvt.com/
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    FF43 said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
    Chlorination Chicken is my favourite.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    FF43 said:

    For those interested in trade policy, the US Trade Dept have issued what they see as barriers to US international trade with a major section on the European Union. This gives us a clue of what they will be looking for in a US/UK trade deal. Needless to say it goes beyond chlorinated chicken. They really dislike a lot of the EU trade regulation, particularly on chemicals certification, animal welfare, food safety and nuclear oversight. My take is that the most likely version of a UK/US trade deal would be incompatible with a UK/EU PTA including chemicals and foodstuffs. The EU might not be interested in a PTA with us that excludes those things.

    Either way there is going to be a standoff on nuclear technologies. The US Senate has to approve the UK use of US nuclear technologies, while it will be difficult to continue nuclear power generation and waste management without a renegotiation containing parts of Euratom.

    In general it looks like we will have to decide whether to be dictated to by the USA or the EU. I would suggest the second is more in our interests, for various reasons.

    The report also indicates the barriers to trade with the EU that we are likely to face from the outside, particularly on services.

    https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/reports/2017/NTE/2017 NTE.pdf#page=147

    That US trade document also highlights the disadvantage of having to conform to European standards when you have no role in creating them -- as Britain will be after Brexit. Of course, we are already in that position with regard to American standards.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    FF43 said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
    Or as the EU are learning slowly, don't count your chickens.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
    I should hope so! Doesn't all living matter have DNA in?
    Yes. Trolling. Sorry.
    Ah. It's like the dihydrogen monoxide scare all over again.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway and completely off topic, my news - and the reason I have largely been absent from PB and will likely be for a while - is that I have after 34 years in the industry and nearly 14 years in my current job (which has been relentless hard work) decided to take a break - a sabbatical from full-time employment, at least for now.

    Not an easy decision to take but the right one. I want to get my health back on track, to live a more balanced and relaxed life, spend times with those I love and enjoy - as I did the other day - the simple pleasures of paddling in the sea in sunshine followed by a delicious crab sandwich and later the joys of a flaming sunset over the coast.

    I shall be mostly in the Lakes and Canada for much of the next few months and will then be reappearing with the investigations consultancy I have been planning for a while. And I shall be doing some teaching/training/mentoring and continuing with my "The Only Way is Ethics" series of talks. If the City's moral behaviour does not improve, it won't be for want of trying on my part!

    I am I confess a little apprehensive about embarking on the self-employed life but also quite excited too. And I may surprise myself. No going gently into that good night for me! I have my first retainer already so I won't be - quite yet - sitting outside Morrisons with a dog at the end of a piece of string begging......

    I may even have a bit of time for some PB articles, despite politics being really quite unappealing at present.

    Sometimes you just have to take risks.

    Yes, sometimes. Really, really hopes it all works well.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    I've been shocked that the trendy, metropolitan, elitist Remainiacs have come down on the "Luddite" and "flat-earth" side if the Chlorineization of Chickens...

    Remainers are now on a par with daft people who were against putting chlorine and fluoride in tap water... Who would have thunk it. :D
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    edited July 2017

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    Morata has 84 career league goals, although 44 were in the Spanish second division

    He has 11 Champions League goals to Kane's 2
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,576

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.

    Chlorinated chicken is merely the symbol of a wider point: any FTA we have with the US will be one that they will dictate the terms of. We are not even talking about the possibility of the Americans accepting current British food standards. And that's because no-one believes it is remotely possible they would.
    And that includes antibiotics in food which will only make it more likely there will be resistant superbugs we can do nothing about.

    A nightmare.

    This is all part of the insanity that is Brexit and the Atlantic dreamings of Fox and co.

    And who will be eating cheap, chlorinated chicken? Not Fox and his chums.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    Morata has 84 career league goals, although 44 were in the Spanish second division
    Think he got 20 last season, most of them as a sub
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    And England one down already....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Anyone else think Haseeb Hameed with a broken hand is a better batsman than Keaton Jennings?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    GIN1138 said:

    I've been shocked that the trendy, metropolitan, elitist Remainiacs have come down on the "Luddite" and "flat-earth" side if the Chlorineization of Chickens...

    Remainers are now on a par with daft people who were against putting chlorine and fluoride in tap water... Who would have thunk it. :D

    And Brexiteers want an FTA with America which bans Kinder Eggs and red Smarties.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    FF43 said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
    Chlorination Chicken is my favourite.
    Will they arrange for the successor to May to be chlorinated?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,812

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    Can't resist a dig, can you?

    It's this sort of thing that reinforces internal Tory partisanship and division.

    I call it as fairly as I can as I see it, on all sides of the party. Don't try and exploit my reservations where we do agree for your own ends.
    I was just pointing out that Brexit needs to be successful for the sake of country, if it isn't we will all paying the price.

    Those four are likely to ensure we get the worst possible Brexit, the last thing I want is for it to becomes inevitable that the UK rejoins the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
    I can agree with you on all of that.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    edited July 2017

    isam said:

    One word for Mr. Conte.

    Subtle.

    I've been giving Mr Conte subtlety lessons.

    On LFC TV they had a stat the other day that was amazing.

    Last season Harry Kane scored more goals than Alvaro Morato has scored in his entire career.

    PS - Are you going to set up a PB fantasy football league this season?
    Good stat. Is it true?
    Nearly true. Reckon it would have been true if Harry Kane hadn't been injured last season.
    Is Wikipedia wrong, then? That shows Kane with 35 goals in all competitions last season whilst Morata has 58 career goals - 31 with Real Madrid and 27 with Juventus. He also has 45 goals for Real Madrid's B team.
    Is 40 career league goals versus Harry Kane's 29 league goals last season.
    Morata has 84 career league goals, although 44 were in the Spanish second division
    Think he got 20 last season, most of them as a sub
    14 of Kane's league goals have been penalties, against only 1 of Morata's

    Kane has played 4000 more top flight minutes

    Team built round Kane, Morata in CR7s shadow

    Other than that, good stat! :lol:
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059

    Anyone else think Haseeb Hameed with a broken hand is a better batsman than Keaton Jennings?

    A mystifying oversight. HH proven test temperament, county form shmorm
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited July 2017
    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    Mr. Meeks, what about a female Doctor washed in chlorine?

    Since the alternative is one that hasn't bathed at all....
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    GIN1138 said:

    I've been shocked that the trendy, metropolitan, elitist Remainiacs have come down on the "Luddite" and "flat-earth" side if the Chlorineization of Chickens...

    Remainers are now on a par with daft people who were against putting chlorine and fluoride in tap water... Who would have thunk it. :D

    Pfff. I'm a metropolitan remainer and it's plain as day that the chicken is perfectly ok to eat. EU protectionism.

    Anyway, there not a snowball's chance in hell that either M&S or Ocado will sell it, so I'm fine either way. *sips fresh chamomile tea*
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.

    Can we take it this sudden interest in Labour's position (which as any good Blairite will point out is irrelevant until Labour wins power) is CCHQ-driven?

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302

    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.

    Can we take it this sudden interest in Labour's position (which as any good Blairite will point out is irrelevant until Labour wins power) is CCHQ-driven?

    Well Jezza thinks he will be PM in less than 6 months....
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,926
    Betting on one of Barca, Bayern or Real Madrid to win the Champions League works out to evens.

    They've won the past 5 years, and you have to look back 10 years for when one of those teams didn't make the final. DYOR but I think that's value.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128

    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.

    Can we take it this sudden interest in Labour's position (which as any good Blairite will point out is irrelevant until Labour wins power) is CCHQ-driven?

    Well Jezza thinks he will be PM in less than 6 months....
    So does at least one senior Tory MP.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Standard-watch. I've just had a completely brilliant idea which is not at all a crackpot conspiracy theory.

    If the Standard leads with CCHQ propaganda about the evils of Corbyn and a split Labour Party, then that is because George Osborne knows there will be a Conservative leadership election this year and is rebuilding his influence within the party in preparation.

    So if George splashes Jezza's dislike of the EU, we should bet on ... who? Will Amber Rudd carry the Osbornite imprimatur? 14/1 with Shadsy for next PM, 10/1 next leader. DYOR. Buy your own tin foil.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    As well as digging into Keaton Jennings' cricket technique, Geoffrey Boycott on TMS is having a grump about "these modern coffee cups with lids on them". Apparently, Boycs - whose name, lest we forget, is an anagram of Grotty Coffee Boy - prefers an old-fashioned china cup.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128
    O/T England 35-1. Jennings out. Cook and Westley batting.


    COME ON YOU ESSEX!!!!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302

    O/T England 35-1. Jennings out. Cook and Westley batting.


    COME ON YOU ESSEX!!!!

    The Only Way is Essex?
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    FF43 said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
    To say nothing of Breggsit.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.

    Can we take it this sudden interest in Labour's position (which as any good Blairite will point out is irrelevant until Labour wins power) is CCHQ-driven?

    Well Jezza thinks he will be PM in less than 6 months....
    So does at least one senior Tory MP.
    It is hard to see how Corbyn becomes PM because if it looks at all likely, the men in grey suits will topple Theresa May and her successor will be PM instead.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128

    EU is bad for the poor, Corbyn told dictator pal: Recording shows Labour leader suggesting bloc was a barrier to 'building socialism'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4733972/EU-bad-poor-Corbyn-told-Nicolas-Maduro.html

    I bet I don't see this flooding my social media by all the Corbynistas.

    Can we take it this sudden interest in Labour's position (which as any good Blairite will point out is irrelevant until Labour wins power) is CCHQ-driven?

    Well Jezza thinks he will be PM in less than 6 months....
    So does at least one senior Tory MP.
    It is hard to see how Corbyn becomes PM because if it looks at all likely, the men in grey suits will topple Theresa May and her successor will be PM instead.
    That was I said when the comment was made to me, but my informant seemed perfectly serious.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,978

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I think the EU puts this stuff out there knowing full well the media etc will put pressure on the UK. Good negotiating tactics really.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,715
    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
    I should hope so! Doesn't all living matter have DNA in?
    Yes. Trolling. Sorry.
    Ah. It's like the dihydrogen monoxide scare all over again.
    You shouldn't mock. It is dangerous stuff. I've heard people drown in it.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    FF43 said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Chlorinated chicken has been added to the long list of items, just below a female Doctor Who, where I have found myself so far unable to care about either way.
    A good source of political puns however: Brexit Chickens come home to roost; Headless chickens at DExEU; Playing chicken with our futures; Time to chicken out.
    To say nothing of Breggsit.
    ArmEGGedon, the way things are going.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128
    kjh said:

    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anorak said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Of all the crap that US exports, chlorinated chicken isn't exactly even on the scale. All those goods packed with fructose corn syrup are far worse for ones health.

    Isn't a large part of the problem with chlorinated chicken not that it is chlorinated but that it is chlorinated to cover up poor hygiene and welfare standards? Chlorinated chicken is used as shorthand for related welfare, hygiene and purity issues. They could as easily have chosen hormone-fuelled beef, and maybe they soon will given the recent spin about chlorine in swimming pools which deliberately misses the wider points.
    I assume those seriously worried about it cook in, and drink, rainwater out of barrels. A much bigger concern, in my view, is that some of the chicken raised in the USA contains traces of DNA.
    I should hope so! Doesn't all living matter have DNA in?
    Yes. Trolling. Sorry.
    Ah. It's like the dihydrogen monoxide scare all over again.
    You shouldn't mock. It is dangerous stuff. I've heard people drown in it.
    David Amess is still sore about the cake story.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    According to a study by the Food Standards Agency (FSA), a third of the population is at risk of becoming ill because of “dirty chickens”, contaminated with potentially lethal campylobacter.
    ...
    Figures show there are 100 deaths and 280,000 people suffer from food poisoning caused by the bug every year.

    Campylobacter is carried on raw chicken skin and the FSA said a third of us are likely to be struck down by it once in our lifetimes.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/one-three-brits-risk-deadly-5715049

    I am sure that the easily appalled would be equally appalled if the boot were on the other foot: UK deaths set to soar after green light given to imports of lethal non-chlorinated chicken from US. If the Mirror figure is right these bastards are at least five times as deadly to the UK as islamist terrorists.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283
    RoyalBlue said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
    The best way to start preparations for a hard Brexit would have been a 52-48 win for Remain that would have left the question unsettled. Winning the referendum was the worst thing to happen to the Eurosceptic cause for decades.
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    PClipp said:

    Back on topic, or at least one part of it.... The Labour Party are hopelessly split over the EU, as Umunna`s tweet shows. Labour politicians are all promoting their own line for their own particular audience, and hoping that people believe that this is what the next Labour government (???) is committed to. They did this during the general election campaign, and got away with it. But it cannot go on for ever. Or can it?

    White Wednesday is a parallel. Some of Labour supported ERM entry and supported staying in. Others didn't. Then when we crashed out, they aligned to portray it as a disaster they'd have skilfully avoided and reaped the political benefit.

    Arguably the same happened to their disadvantage with the GFC, except that Labour's inept regulation and chronic overborrowing made it likelier and worse.

    I'm surprised you point as this as a failing though. You are a LibDem supporter as I recall, a party whose whole electoral pitched is based on being all things to all swing voters - homophobic when helpful against Peter Tatchell, and so on - if indeed being anything at all. Just the other day we were discussing what would be good policies for the LibDems, a sure sign that they've no principles to instruct them.
    Pah, if anything the Lib Dems are the most principled of the main parties. Liberalism is a more prescriptive ideology than socialism or conservatism. That the Lib Dems have often fudged policies in order to avoid scaring the voters is hardly a cardinal offence - Labour and the Tories often look like they barely know what their principles are.

    Take Europe, for example. The Liberals and then Lib Dems have maintained a consistent position over a period of more than half a century. Look at the two main parties' positioning over that period. They've been all over the place!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    RoyalBlue said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
    Alas we were told 'Hard Brexit' was just project fear bollocks.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,221
    rkrkrk said:

    Betting on one of Barca, Bayern or Real Madrid to win the Champions League works out to evens.

    They've won the past 5 years, and you have to look back 10 years for when one of those teams didn't make the final. DYOR but I think that's value.

    Barca look over the hill and Bayern have lost Lahm and Alonso. We could see a changing of the guard this season. That said, Real will probably still be the team to beat.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    So Brexit will be delivered by David Davis, the disgraced national security risk Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, and Stewart Jackson.

    If that doesn't fill Leavers to the brim with girlish glee, I'm not sure what will.

    Can't resist a dig, can you?

    It's this sort of thing that reinforces internal Tory partisanship and division.

    I call it as fairly as I can as I see it, on all sides of the party. Don't try and exploit my reservations where we do agree for your own ends.
    I was just pointing out that Brexit needs to be successful for the sake of country, if it isn't we will all paying the price.

    Those four are likely to ensure we get the worst possible Brexit, the last thing I want is for it to becomes inevitable that the UK rejoins the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
    I can agree with you on all of that.
    I can't see it would ever be inevitable that the British people would consent to join the Euro and Schengen.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited July 2017

    RoyalBlue said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
    Alas we were told 'Hard Brexit' was just project fear bollocks.
    Falling over themselves to make a deal, etc, etc. Morons. They're fully in the "the pain will be worth it" phase, which will no doubt be followed by the "we were right to leave because now they're being mean" phase.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,715

    PClipp said:

    Back on topic, or at least one part of it.... The Labour Party are hopelessly split over the EU, as Umunna`s tweet shows. Labour politicians are all promoting their own line for their own particular audience, and hoping that people believe that this is what the next Labour government (???) is committed to. They did this during the general election campaign, and got away with it. But it cannot go on for ever. Or can it?

    White Wednesday is a parallel. Some of Labour supported ERM entry and supported staying in. Others didn't. Then when we crashed out, they aligned to portray it as a disaster they'd have skilfully avoided and reaped the political benefit.

    Arguably the same happened to their disadvantage with the GFC, except that Labour's inept regulation and chronic overborrowing made it likelier and worse.

    I'm surprised you point as this as a failing though. You are a LibDem supporter as I recall, a party whose whole electoral pitched is based on being all things to all swing voters - homophobic when helpful against Peter Tatchell, and so on - if indeed being anything at all. Just the other day we were discussing what would be good policies for the LibDems, a sure sign that they've no principles to instruct them.
    The old 'its a straight choice' slur that keeps coming out (unintended pun). Its a straight choice and its a two horse race have been used on thousands of leaflets for their obvious meaning. Anyone who sees a homophobic message is there already and doesn't need the message. FYI I was an agent for an openly gay candidate against a (presumably) straight candidate (wife & children) and used that very message in most of the leaflets. Was I campaigning for the opposition?
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    RoyalBlue said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
    Alas we were told 'Hard Brexit' was just project fear bollocks.
    Nope, you were told that if the EU wanted to force it, no matter how awful for them it would be, they would be able to.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tlg86 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Betting on one of Barca, Bayern or Real Madrid to win the Champions League works out to evens.

    They've won the past 5 years, and you have to look back 10 years for when one of those teams didn't make the final. DYOR but I think that's value.

    Barca look over the hill and Bayern have lost Lahm and Alonso. We could see a changing of the guard this season. That said, Real will probably still be the team to beat.
    I agree with you.

    Think Conte will guide my lot to the last eight, but I really fancy Man City to go all the way.

    Meantime I have just bought Hernandez goals at 10.5 with Spin, he could form a formidable partnership with Andy Carroll, however even if Carroll does spend most of the season on loan to Holby City once again I still fancy Hernandez to at least hit double figures.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283
    Anorak said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    This is the real problem with not preparing for hard Brexit from the start. Any other option gives enormous leverage to the EU.

    There is nothing we can do to stay in the EEA post 2019 without the consent of the others. Clearly they realise that.
    Alas we were told 'Hard Brexit' was just project fear bollocks.
    Falling over themselves to make a deal, etc, etc. Morons. They're fully in the "the pain will be worth it" phase, which will no doubt be followed by the "we were right to leave because now they're being mean" phase.
    Good luck with that with 60+% of the public against them.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    Off-topic:

    This guy's a friend of a friend:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-40738484

    It's quite a sad story.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    edited July 2017

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Why I dislike Khan...

    “A half-hearted commitment from Government simply isn’t good enough… The commitment to phase out sales of new diesel cars is welcome, but Londoners suffering right now simply can’t afford to wait until 2040.”

    Khan lavished praised on the French government when it instituted the same policy earlier this month:

    “I welcome the strong leadership the French government has shown by making the decision to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2040. This radical step shames the timid and insufficient response of our own government to the health threat posed by poor air quality.”
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    Plenty of criticism coming from the EU side, for me it shows they are spinning because they are a bit shocked we are not proving to be a walk over.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855
    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Mr. Urquhart, a mayor who forbids women in bikinis from ads on the tube but seems content to have Hezbollah flags on the capital's streets has poor judgement.

    Mr. Jessop, hope he finds someone.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
    It's bad news because we have no demands of our own. We have no positions.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
    It's bad news because we have no demands of our own. We have no positions.
    And you know this how?
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Mr. Urquhart, a mayor who forbids women in bikinis from ads on the tube but seems content to have Hezbollah flags on the capital's streets has poor judgement.

    He's also very keen on having his name splashed on every bit of TFL publicity.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
    It's bad news because we have no demands of our own. We have no positions.
    But we're interrogating theirs - and they don't like it. Why have they not been able to justify ECJ extraterritorial jurisdiction or their Brexit bill?
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
    It's bad news because we have no demands of our own. We have no positions.
    And you know this how?
    DNFTT.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,283

    GIN1138 said:

    Sky - EU official says Michel Barnier told ambassadors UK relationship talks unlikely to begin in October after lack of progress in divorce talks

    Nonsense. Rcs1000 says they're well under way.
    I'd rather believe RCS than Barnier (who will be spinning for all his worth)
    So Barnier is telling the rest of the EU that we have not acceded to their demands - and this is bad news how?
    It's bad news because we have no demands of our own. We have no positions.
    And you know this how?
    It's inconceivable that the government could pull off a strategy of studied incompetence so successfully if they were trying.
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