politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Premiership will be more dominated by teams from REMAIN areas next season
Not long now before the big kick-off and I’ve updated my chart showing the referendum vote in the local authority areas where the 20 teams have their grounds.
Bournemouth are in the Premiership? When did that happen? Brighton??
Shows how much I follow football.
Bournemouth have been in the Premier League since 2015.
Brighton & Hove were in the old First Division during the late 70s and early 80s, but were promoted to the modern Premier League at the end of last season.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Bournemouth are in the Premiership? When did that happen? Brighton??
Shows how much I follow football.
Bournemouth have been in the Premier League since 2015.
Brighton & Hove were in the old First Division during the late 70s and early 80s, but were promoted to the modern Premier League at the end of last season.
Being populated by green anywheres how long will they remain "Albion"?
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
For the meat sector we run a substantial trade deficit with the rest of the EU. In 2015 £1.15 billion of meat and meat products were exported from the UK to other EU countries, but £3.86 billion of meat and meat products were imported into the UK from other EU member states. The only meat of which the UK exports more than it imports is sheepmeat.
Given the size of our country and the lack of grazing land, we will always run a trade deficit in meat. The only question is whether the deficit is with Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, the US or the EU. Or, of course, all of the above.
You need about 60-100x the physical space per calorie compared to - say - rice.
So how did the Dutch manage to export 8bn euros worth of meat in 2014? They used intensive farming for pigs and chickens, that's how. We could, in theory, do the same. Interestingly, German exported even more meat than the Dutch with only Brazil and the US ahead of them.
They import a fair amount, too, no?
Maybe land in the UK is too expensive. (And large chunks of British farmland are owned for the purpose of shooting birds.)
Not really. The only bits dedicated solely to birds are woodland with pheasants in it, and grouse moor which is no good for anything else except a few mouldy sheep. The fields within land used for shooting are also used for productive agriculture, though a smallish percentage may be planted with kale or whatever as cover crop for the pheasants.
For the meat sector we run a substantial trade deficit with the rest of the EU. In 2015 £1.15 billion of meat and meat products were exported from the UK to other EU countries, but £3.86 billion of meat and meat products were imported into the UK from other EU member states. The only meat of which the UK exports more than it imports is sheepmeat.
Given the size of our country and the lack of grazing land, we will always run a trade deficit in meat. The only question is whether the deficit is with Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, the US or the EU. Or, of course, all of the above.
You need about 60-100x the physical space per calorie compared to - say - rice.
So how did the Dutch manage to export 8bn euros worth of meat in 2014? They used intensive farming for pigs and chickens, that's how. We could, in theory, do the same. Interestingly, German exported even more meat than the Dutch with only Brazil and the US ahead of them.
They import a fair amount, too, no?
Maybe land in the UK is too expensive. (And large chunks of British farmland are owned for the purpose of shooting birds.)
Not really. The only bits dedicated solely to birds are woodland with pheasants in it, and grouse moor which is no good for anything else except a few mouldy sheep. The fields within land used for shooting are also used for productive agriculture, though a smallish percentage may be planted with kale or whatever as cover crop for the pheasants.
It's golf I tell you. Waste of good quality land and time.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Anyway most United supporters allegedly come from London so it is completely unfair to have them languishing in mid table mediocrity (like last season).
Anyway most United supporters allegedly come from London so it is completely unfair to have them languishing in mid table mediocrity (like last season).
Anyway most United supporters allegedly come from London so it is completely unfair to have them languishing in mid table mediocrity (like last season).
Indeed like Tim Montgomerie but he's a Leaver
Its just as well that I am obstinate or the company I was keeping would make me worry.
For the meat sector we run a substantial trade deficit with the rest of the EU. In 2015 £1.15 billion of meat and meat products were exported from the UK to other EU countries, but £3.86 billion of meat and meat products were imported into the UK from other EU member states. The only meat of which the UK exports more than it imports is sheepmeat.
Given the size of our country and the lack of grazing land, we will always run a trade deficit in meat. The only question is whether the deficit is with Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, the US or the EU. Or, of course, all of the above.
You need about 60-100x the physical space per calorie compared to - say - rice.
So how did the Dutch manage to export 8bn euros worth of meat in 2014? They used intensive farming for pigs and chickens, that's how. We could, in theory, do the same. Interestingly, German exported even more meat than the Dutch with only Brazil and the US ahead of them.
They import a fair amount, too, no?
Maybe land in the UK is too expensive. (And large chunks of British farmland are owned for the purpose of shooting birds.)
Not really. The only bits dedicated solely to birds are woodland with pheasants in it, and grouse moor which is no good for anything else except a few mouldy sheep. The fields within land used for shooting are also used for productive agriculture, though a smallish percentage may be planted with kale or whatever as cover crop for the pheasants.
It's golf I tell you. Waste of good quality land and time.
I assume with 'dig for victory' in WW2 all of the posh golf courses were turned over to agriculture for the duration.
And all of the golf clubs melted down to make Spitfires. OK, not the wooden ones - they were used to build bombers.
For the meat sector we run a substantial trade deficit with the rest of the EU. In 2015 £1.15 billion of meat and meat products were exported from the UK to other EU countries, but £3.86 billion of meat and meat products were imported into the UK from other EU member states. The only meat of which the UK exports more than it imports is sheepmeat.
Given the size of our country and the lack of grazing land, we will always run a trade deficit in meat. The only question is whether the deficit is with Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, the US or the EU. Or, of course, all of the above.
You need about 60-100x the physical space per calorie compared to - say - rice.
So how did the Dutch manage to export 8bn euros worth of meat in 2014? They used intensive farming for pigs and chickens, that's how. We could, in theory, do the same. Interestingly, German exported even more meat than the Dutch with only Brazil and the US ahead of them.
They import a fair amount, too, no?
Maybe land in the UK is too expensive. (And large chunks of British farmland are owned for the purpose of shooting birds.)
Not really. The only bits dedicated solely to birds are woodland with pheasants in it, and grouse moor which is no good for anything else except a few mouldy sheep. The fields within land used for shooting are also used for productive agriculture, though a smallish percentage may be planted with kale or whatever as cover crop for the pheasants.
It's golf I tell you. Waste of good quality land and time.
I assume with 'dig for victory' in WW2 all of the posh golf courses were turned over to agriculture for the duration.
And all of the golf clubs melted down to make Spitfires. OK, not the wooden ones - they were used to build bombers.
Young TSE: "If you want!" (He also takes a bottle of meat from the fridge).
Young Sunil: "Meat...? Ugh!"
Young TSE: "It's what Ian Rush drinks."
Young Sunil: "Ian Rush?"
Young TSE: "Yeah, an' he says if I don't drink lots of meat, when I grow up I'm only gonna be good enough to play for Accrington Stanley The Liberal Democrats!"
Why not require (as whisk[e]y bottles already tend to do) nothing more than a declaration of how aged it is?
That way if a bottle says "aged 2 years" and the purchaser wants a minimum of 3 they know full well and can make an informed decision.
Funny story - in the Great Depression, the US government made it illegal for bourbon to be matured in re-used barrels, in order to stimulate the forestry and coopering trades.
Generally most really good whiskes are matured in re-used barrels because you get a lot of the flavour of what used to be in it, bourbon, sherry and so on. New barrels don't impart the same delicate flavours.
Suntory, the Japanese whisky maker, supposedly bought Jim Beam a few years back simply because the bourbon they made was a by product of what Suntory couldn't get enough of at the time - used bourbon barrels to mature their premium single malts in.
A classic case of how government intervention distorts markets...
Why not require (as whisk[e]y bottles already tend to do) nothing more than a declaration of how aged it is?
That way if a bottle says "aged 2 years" and the purchaser wants a minimum of 3 they know full well and can make an informed decision.
Funny story - in the Great Depression, the US government made it illegal for bourbon to be matured in re-used barrels, in order to stimulate the forestry and coopering trades.
Generally most really good whiskes are matured in re-used barrels because you get a lot of the flavour of what used to be in it, bourbon, sherry and so on. New barrels don't impart the same delicate flavours.
Suntory, the Japanese whisky maker, supposedly bought Jim Beam a few years back simply because the bourbon they made was a by product of what Suntory couldn't get enough of at the time - used bourbon barrels to mature their premium single malts in.
A classic case of how government intervention distorts markets...
Sherry is also a by-product from the production of used sherry casks for maturing single malt in.
I think Nick already dealt with the point about chlorinated chicken quite conclusively in the last thread. Far from jumping into a deal with the US, we should be cautious of any post Brexit commitments. TTIP was in fact major concern for many Leave voters, and rightly so. It is to be hoped that a British Government out of the EU will be more accountable to the public in terms of the trade deals it signs.
I always wash chicken. So far as I'm aware it's only dangerous if you don't clean your kitchen. Can't see how else adding water to something could be bad.
Why not require (as whisk[e]y bottles already tend to do) nothing more than a declaration of how aged it is?
That way if a bottle says "aged 2 years" and the purchaser wants a minimum of 3 they know full well and can make an informed decision.
Funny story - in the Great Depression, the US government made it illegal for bourbon to be matured in re-used barrels, in order to stimulate the forestry and coopering trades.
Generally most really good whiskes are matured in re-used barrels because you get a lot of the flavour of what used to be in it, bourbon, sherry and so on. New barrels don't impart the same delicate flavours.
Suntory, the Japanese whisky maker, supposedly bought Jim Beam a few years back simply because the bourbon they made was a by product of what Suntory couldn't get enough of at the time - used bourbon barrels to mature their premium single malts in.
A classic case of how government intervention distorts markets...
Sherry is also a by-product from the production of used sherry casks for maturing single malt in.
But there's not enough sherry produced, and the bodegas don't give up their barrels very often, hence there's a great deal of sherry maturing in Scotland right now just to get the barrels afterwards!
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
You can at least enjoy his evisceration of Corbyn even if you don't care for his views on the EU.
“I mean, Michael Foot was a brilliant essayist, a very good historian, a fantastic speaker. To compare Corbyn with that is like comparing the admirable Ed Balls of Strictly with Nureyev. This is not like with like,” he says.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
I always wash chicken. So far as I'm aware it's only dangerous if you don't clean your kitchen. Can't see how else adding water to something could be bad.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
City Chelsea United Spurs Arsenal Liverpool Everton
with Everton the most likely to surprise on the upside.
I think Chelsea will win again, Man City are still too patchy, but I agree Everton are most likely to surprisecon the upside, as are Huddersfield and Brighton.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
Our Government can now decide what deals it enters. It doesn't follow that we will enter any deal going.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
I always wash chicken. So far as I'm aware it's only dangerous if you don't clean your kitchen. Can't see how else adding water to something could be bad.
That says exactly what I said. Splashing your surfaces with chicken water and leaving the bacteria to multiply is dangerous. Carefully cleaning your chicken, then cleaning where it's been, is not.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
City Chelsea United Spurs Arsenal Liverpool Everton
with Everton the most likely to surprise on the upside.
I think Chelsea will win again, Man City are still too patchy, but I agree Everton are most likely to surprisecon the upside, as are Huddersfield and Brighton.
Most of City's problems were in defence and they seemed to have addressed that quite well. Not quite persuaded that Morata is an adequate replacement for Costa. With Rooney getting regular games I expect him to score quite a few goals for Everton.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
Our Government can now decide what deals it enters. It doesn't follow that we will enter any deal going.
Pretty certain that we are headed to lower standards as part of our "Free trade deals". I personally would applaud higher standards than the EU, but we are not likely to get them.
In particular there must be compulsory labelling of these new imports, so customers can choose to avoid if possible.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
City Chelsea United Spurs Arsenal Liverpool Everton
with Everton the most likely to surprise on the upside.
I think Chelsea will win again, Man City are still too patchy, but I agree Everton are most likely to surprisecon the upside, as are Huddersfield and Brighton.
Most of City's problems were in defence and they seemed to have addressed that quite well. Not quite persuaded that Morata is an adequate replacement for Costa. With Rooney getting regular games I expect him to score quite a few goals for Everton.
The problem at Man City was not the players, but rather the system. That will not change with the personnel.
I think that Rooney will only have the occasional good game. He is past it now.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
You can at least enjoy his evisceration of Corbyn even if you don't care for his views on the EU.
“I mean, Michael Foot was a brilliant essayist, a very good historian, a fantastic speaker. To compare Corbyn with that is like comparing the admirable Ed Balls of Strictly with Nureyev. This is not like with like,” he says.
It's a matter of taste. I was a candidate under Foot - I respected him for scholarly integrity, but his style was much more Parliamentarian than Corbyn's - involved, elegant phrasing that you could stand back and admire, but not directly engaging with ordinary people. Establishment politicians always rate Parliamentary skill highly but in today's world it's not the primary skill, and it can seem curiously remote from the people it's trying to help. I don't think Corbyn is by any means a master of rhetoric, but he's more convincingly rooted in the underdog world that IMO the left should essentially be about.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
There was always a significant working class unionist vote in Liverpool, not surprising in a city which for many years elected an Irish Nationalist MP.
Similarly in Glasgow.
The ironic thing is that this unionist vote faded away in the 1960s at the same time as the Troubles in Northern Ireland started.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
There was always a significant working class unionist vote in Liverpool, not surprising in a city which for many years elected an Irish Nationalist MP.
Similarly in Glasgow.
The ironic thing is that this unionist vote faded away in the 1960s at the same time as the Troubles in Northern Ireland started.
The Conservatives enjoyed a last hurrah in Liverpool in 1975-81, before their support fell off a cliff. It was a mix of solid middle class support, and the last of working class unionist support.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
Its spread to Chester but not to North Wales.
SeanT suggested it was because Liverpool had gone from being 'second city of the Empire' to second city of Lancashire. And that Scousers were whiny Catholic Celts.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
We don't, but a referendum on independence from the USA was not offered. Had one been offered, I would have voted in the same way, for the same reasons.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
Its spread to Chester but not to North Wales.
SeanT suggested it was because Liverpool had gone from being 'second city of the Empire' to second city of Lancashire. And that Scousers were whiny Catholic Celts.
Pretty sure that the 2nd city of the Empire was Glasgow.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
Yes
"Foodborne illness is a huge health problem in the United States. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), one in six Americans — some 48 million people — gets sick each year from food that has been contaminated with pathogens such as norovirus, salmonella, E. coli and listeria."
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
Its spread to Chester but not to North Wales.
SeanT suggested it was because Liverpool had gone from being 'second city of the Empire' to second city of Lancashire. And that Scousers were whiny Catholic Celts.
I make SeanT right although .... what about Burnley ..... or Preston
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
I don't think it gets anyone anywhere to waste time on arguments where one side constantly extrapolates from the worse case scenario, then uses their conclusions to make snide digs.
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
We often see data showing the public-private sector employment split, and also for the ABC1 - C2DE split, but I do wonder if it would be more informative to cross-tabulate, especially to look at the % of people working ABC1 private-sector jobs.
Labour now do very well among ABC1s, but some part of that must be the expansion of professional/graduate roles in the public sector. And there must be lots of towns where there are very few ABC1 private-sector jobs.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Surely populism is the definition of a democratic vote you don 't like. For the record I voted 'remain'.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
I don't think it gets anyone anywhere to waste time on arguments where one side constantly extrapolates from the worse case scenario, then uses their conclusions to make snide digs.
So you reject the plans to import American foodstuffs that fall short of our current standards?
It's like a blight spreading outwards. First, working class Liverpool stopped voting along religious lines in the 1960's, and switched to hard left politics. Then, middle class Liverpool switched to hard left politics in the 1980's. Then, all the surrounding middle class areas in the Wirral and Sefton switched to hard left politics in the 2000's.
We often see data showing the public-private sector employment split, and also for the ABC1 - C2DE split, but I do wonder if it would be more informative to cross-tabulate, especially to look at the % of people working ABC1 private-sector jobs.
Labour now do very well among ABC1s, but some part of that must be the expansion of professional/graduate roles in the public sector. And there must be lots of towns where there are very few ABC1 private-sector jobs.
Anywhere that's a big city is now stony ground for Conservatives. And, that generally holds good throughout Western democracies for centre-right parties.
But small cities and large towns still have plenty of Conservative voters.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
Why don't you think the result of the referendum is sacrosanct Peter?
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
No, but what has been shown is that various establishments figures don't think there should be any requirement to respect the results of democracy if those results are not to their liking. For example Niall Ferguson quoted some such establishment figures in the Sunday Times yesterday.
And I assumed, rather carelessly and perhaps erroneously, that Chris Patten was of a similar mindset.
To be honest I've had a down on Chris Patten since he went from losing in 1992 to being given an immediate and prestigious new job. Quite a contrast to people I knew who were unemployed at that time. Like now we weren't 'all in this together' back then.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
Why don't you think the result of the referendum is sacrosanct Peter?
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
It was certainly an example of democracy.
It doesn't necessarily follow that it was sacrosanct. Plenty of the world's greatest thinkers have condemned democracy.
Crystal Palace's ground is in the borough of Croydon which was 54.3% Remain - you have the result for Southwark.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
Liverpool Walton 77% labour *majority* and and 86% share of the vote. Insane.
Until 1964 Liverpool Walton was a Tory seat . Eric Heffer won it that year by circa 1500 votes. Admittedly there have been boundary changes.
Boundary changes don't matter because the sourounding seats are also very labour. Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
There was always a significant working class unionist vote in Liverpool, not surprising in a city which for many years elected an Irish Nationalist MP.
Similarly in Glasgow.
The ironic thing is that this unionist vote faded away in the 1960s at the same time as the Troubles in Northern Ireland started.
The Conservatives enjoyed a last hurrah in Liverpool in 1975-81, before their support fell off a cliff. It was a mix of solid middle class support, and the last of working class unionist support.
There was quite a few Conservative voters in Brookside in the 1980s - Ron Dixon was referred to as voting Conservative in 1992.
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
It was certainly an example of democracy.
It doesn't necessarily follow that it was sacrosanct. Plenty of the world's greatest thinkers have condemned democracy.
I must have gone to the wrong school, Sean.
To me, democracy in its modern western sense implies electing representatives to run things in our best interests to the best of their ability. Every five years or so, we change some of those representatives.
A referendum asks the populace what it thinks on a particular issue, on a particular day.
It is not about chlorine toxicity, it is about why chlorine is used at all.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
So a lot of Americans get ill through eating chicken?
About 25% of Americans get food poisoning each year, despite meat being over cooked there as a norm:
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
I don't think it gets anyone anywhere to waste time on arguments where one side constantly extrapolates from the worse case scenario, then uses their conclusions to make snide digs.
So you reject the plans to import American foodstuffs that fall short of our current standards?
There is hope for you yet!
Its not worth my while to even speculate on it, if I hear that the food we import is not up to scratch I will shop around or not eat that food. We had horsemeat in the supermarkets masquerading as beef a few years ago I seem to recall
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
Chris Patten has rather a history of thinking that democracy shouldn't inconvenience want he wants.
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
Like many on this site, you seem to regard democracy and populism as synonymous.
Populism is simply a word for democracy one doesn't like.
That's an abuse of the English language up with which I cannot put.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
It was certainly an example of democracy.
It doesn't necessarily follow that it was sacrosanct. Plenty of the world's greatest thinkers have condemned democracy.
I must have gone to the wrong school, Sean.
To me, democracy in its modern western sense implies electing representatives to run things in our best interests to the best of their ability. Every five years or so, we change some of those representatives.
A referendum asks the populace what it thinks on a particular issue, on a particular day.
That's not the same. It's not even close, is it?
The Swiss have them all the time. They're not exactly rampaging Trumpians.
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
All votes are valid for the time they are taken, but none are perpetual. Any vote can be overtaken by events.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
Janan Ganesh in the FT
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
"Food poisoning affects an estimated 25 percent of Americans every year. That compares with roughly 30 percent of people in industrialized countries, according to the World Health Organization"
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
Sure, there is a lot of poor hygiene elsewhere too. Spain, Greece and Turkey in Europe, but America is quite high, despite the custom of overcooking. The combination of American meat and undercooking is a deadly one.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
I don't think it gets anyone anywhere to waste time on arguments where one side constantly extrapolates from the worse case scenario, then uses their conclusions to make snide digs.
So you reject the plans to import American foodstuffs that fall short of our current standards?
There is hope for you yet!
Its not worth my while to even speculate on it, if I hear that the food we import is not up to scratch I will shop around or not eat that food. We had horsemeat in the supermarkets masquerading as beef a few years ago I seem to recall
The key is labelling. Will this food be labelled properly? or will the Americans want to insist that labelling is a non tariff barrier as they did with GM tomatoes?
The horsemeat scandal was because of criminal behavior, not lax standards.
Comments
Shows how much I follow football.
Brighton & Hove were in the old First Division during the late 70s and early 80s, but were promoted to the modern Premier League at the end of last season.
City
Chelsea
United
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton
with Everton the most likely to surprise on the upside.
That way if a bottle says "aged 2 years" and the purchaser wants a minimum of 3 they know full well and can make an informed decision.
Also Stamford Bridge is in the borough of Hammersmith not K&C.
Listing by parliamentary constituency also changes the list, for example Everton and Liverpool grounds are in the Liverpool Walton constituency which voted Leave:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Walton_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
A Bonny Dundee Red.
Gloucs, Middlesex, Surrey, Sussex - Remain
The other 14 Leave.
And all of the golf clubs melted down to make Spitfires. OK, not the wooden ones - they were used to build bombers.
Brits would have to eat three entire chlorine-washed chickens every day for an extended period to risk harm"
https://www.adamsmith.org/news/chlorinated-chicken
Young Sunil: "Got any Quorn?"
Young TSE: "If you want!" (He also takes a bottle of meat from the fridge).
Young Sunil: "Meat...? Ugh!"
Young TSE: "It's what Ian Rush drinks."
Young Sunil: "Ian Rush?"
Young TSE: "Yeah, an' he says if I don't drink lots of meat, when I grow up I'm only gonna be good enough to play for
Accrington StanleyThe Liberal Democrats!"Young Sunil: "Liberal Democrats? Who are they?"
Young TSE: "Exactly!"
Generally most really good whiskes are matured in re-used barrels because you get a lot of the flavour of what used to be in it, bourbon, sherry and so on. New barrels don't impart the same delicate flavours.
Suntory, the Japanese whisky maker, supposedly bought Jim Beam a few years back simply because the bourbon they made was a by product of what Suntory couldn't get enough of at the time - used bourbon barrels to mature their premium single malts in.
A classic case of how government intervention distorts markets...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcfour
Straight bananas bad, chlorinated chicken good. Got it
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/brexit-ideological-crap-about-sovereignty-and-taking-back-control-1.3162551
“I think it’s difficult to see how it’s avoided in any rational way. Obviously there are two things I would feel. The first is that when I’m told that people like me have to get over it, I’m not bloody well going to get over it. I think that it’s the worst thing politically that’s happened to Britain in my political lifetime. It’s worse than Suez in a lot of ways because Suez was clearly the end of a story. Joining the European Union was part of our effort to actually find a different role for ourselves in the world,” he says.
“How can you actually snuff out all of the opportunities which Europe offers in the name of this chimera of sovereignty? I think that the longer things go on, the more it will become apparent that the costs are very real.”
The EU of course was one of innumerable establishment organisations to which he was appointed - did he declare in the interview how many millions he has had from it ?
“I mean, Michael Foot was a brilliant essayist, a very good historian, a fantastic speaker. To compare Corbyn with that is like comparing the admirable Ed Balls of Strictly with Nureyev. This is not like with like,” he says.
Chlorine soaking and washing is done in America to get past microbial testing. The basic problem is poor husbandry and slaughterline texchnique, with rapid turnover meaning a lot of faecal contamination of meat. As microbial tests are done on the surface, chlorine washes help pass these tests. They are however just a cover up like spraying perfume on a corpse, as they do not deal with deeper contamination.
American chicken needs to be cooked particularly thoughoughly and I would recommend avoiding ground meat, such as hamburger, unless cooked well done. The grinding process, or manufacture of nuggets etc, spreads the faecal contamination throughout the product, and cooking time at the centre of the piece is often insufficient.
Cheap crappy meat is another Brexit bonus.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29285754/ns/health-food_safety/t/food-poisoning-strikes-americans-year/
C 41, L 43, LD 6, UKIP 3
Last 5 polls (5 different companies):
Lab lead: 2, 2, 1, 1, 2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
Is that an anti Irish vote or something?
But, you could say the same about Labour in rural East Anglia or the New Towns.
In particular there must be compulsory labelling of these new imports, so customers can choose to avoid if possible.
So it seems (or seemed 8 years ago anyway)
I think that Rooney will only have the occasional good game. He is past it now.
And is that 'proper' medical attention required food poisoning or the stomach pain and take a day off work level of 'food poisoning' ?
I imagine that they have steadily died off or left for other places and were never replaced.
Similarly in Glasgow.
The ironic thing is that this unionist vote faded away in the 1960s at the same time as the Troubles in Northern Ireland started.
Ultimately it is about sovereignty. Would you prefer the UK, the EU or the US agribusiness to set our food standards? In whTcway do we gain by being dictated to by the USA?
SeanT suggested it was because Liverpool had gone from being 'second city of the Empire' to second city of Lancashire. And that Scousers were whiny Catholic Celts.
"Foodborne illness is a huge health problem in the United States. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), one in six Americans — some 48 million people — gets sick each year from food that has been contaminated with pathogens such as norovirus, salmonella, E. coli and listeria."
https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2015/02/why-chicken-making-so-many-us-sick
Labour now do very well among ABC1s, but some part of that must be the expansion of professional/graduate roles in the public sector. And there must be lots of towns where there are very few ABC1 private-sector jobs.
There is hope for you yet!
But small cities and large towns still have plenty of Conservative voters.
Seriously, it astonishes me that on a site where the discussion is generally of a good standard so many people seem to regard the referendum as an example of democracy and therefore sacrosanct. It was neither.
(But please, please do not infer from this I believe we should not accept the result. We should. We have made the bed. We must kip in it.)
And I assumed, rather carelessly and perhaps erroneously, that Chris Patten was of a similar mindset.
To be honest I've had a down on Chris Patten since he went from losing in 1992 to being given an immediate and prestigious new job. Quite a contrast to people I knew who were unemployed at that time. Like now we weren't 'all in this together' back then.
That said, we should go ahead with Brexit, so that the people can see the error of their ways.
It doesn't necessarily follow that it was sacrosanct. Plenty of the world's greatest thinkers have condemned democracy.
A century after Passchendaele, the death site of hundreds of thousands of allied and German soldiers, the causes of the great war remain contested. Among the scholarly guesses is that Europe was mesmerised by its own long peace. The concert of empires that had averted general continental violence also inured populations to the reality of it. They went to war in a jingoist stupor because they lacked the recent experience to know better.
Today, nothing on the turbulent horizon of the western world equals that war. It is turbulent all the same. There is a similar feeling of a liberal order besieged and, dare we say, a similar sense of innocents volunteering for trouble without really knowing it.
What if the Petri dish of radicalism is not mass suffering but prolonged order? What if electorates flirt with high-risk change out of complacency born of (relative) good times?
https://www.ft.com/content/8d511dd4-7049-11e7-aca6-c6bd07df1a3c
To me, democracy in its modern western sense implies electing representatives to run things in our best interests to the best of their ability. Every five years or so, we change some of those representatives.
A referendum asks the populace what it thinks on a particular issue, on a particular day.
That's not the same. It's not even close, is it?
The horsemeat scandal was because of criminal behavior, not lax standards.