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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,226

    That doesn't mean that taking the piss out of genders in comedy is something that should be a target, though.

    That might be the case if there weren't massive and entrenched power asymmetry between genders. One gender has subjugated and discriminated against the other for thousands of years so there is no equivalence between something that mocks men and something similarly pejorative about women. They are not the same.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,908

    Worth remembering that ultimately the 42 day detention bit was dropped from the bill and didn't become law. Davis may have made himself a joke but he won that war.
    As an illiberal liberal I was quite happy with 42 days, 90 days, or even the suspension of habeas corpus. If holding some idiot indefinitely prevented something like the events at Manchester Arena, Westminster Bridge, Borough Market or Finsbury Park Mosque bring it on! What price the freedom of some terrorist suspect compared with the lives of children at a music concert?

    I seldom agreed with George W. Bush, however as Obama found out, Guantanamo Bay was a bad idea on paper but had its practical uses!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,405
    tlg86 said:

    In terms of diverting trains of the WCML there isn't much you can do. St Pancras isn't the biggest in terms of domestic platforms so that's not much help and Kings X is not much better.

    Of course, that doesn't stop commuters using other lines during the disruption but that could make trains on the MML and the Chiltern route particularly crowded.
    Thanks.

    As someone who regularly commutes to London, I prefer going Sheffield to St Pancras than Manchester Pic to Euston.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,393

    Crossrail is as well, and that's not experienced those sorts of problems.
    Class 345 unit already in service!

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/883708980492734466
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited July 2017
    Dura_Ace said:

    That might be the case if there weren't massive and entrenched power asymmetry between genders. One gender has subjugated and discriminated against the other for thousands of years so there is no equivalence between something that mocks men and something similarly pejorative about women. They are not the same.

    One is oppression, the other is mocking. Both are unnecessary, only one is actively harmful.
    In terms of pruning the growth back and having symmetry you need to cut back both sides to a point of equity.
    If the aim is indistinctness in treatment and view then you can't normalize inequitable treatment even through mocking.
    The problem is, it's far more fundamental than changing how we advertise.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    Nigelb said:


    Plenty of reasons to build it - but why the (expensive) 400 kph requirement ?

    Most other high speed rail projects seem to be around 300 kph.

    Not an expert at all (and somewhat surprised at how HS2 inspires such passion).

    But if it's going to take however many decades to complete - why not go for the best available?

    Presumably this is going to be our intercity train system for the next 100 years? We can borrow at very low rates.... My inclination would be do it well and make it last.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375
    Mr. Ace, so, mocking men today is acceptable but mocking women today isn't, because in the 12th century women had a really shit time of it?

    I disagree. In comedy, all's fair. In real life, discrimination based on gender is wrong.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    In any other country HS2 would be welcomed, as investment in the future. French towns competed to be close to it, and the likes of Amiens have suffered from being off route.

    The real benefit of HS2 is releasing capacity on other lines. I suspect much of the moaning is from people who rarely use trains.
    People are being shortsighted. They think that because we don't need the capacity *right now* we shouldn't start building it now. However, if we go down the same line as we did with Crossrail and TL2K and wait until the need for more capacity is undeniable before we start to build...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mrs C, plenty, probably a majority (of biased) advertising is about men being incompetent. This isn't necessarily surprising, given women buy 80% or so of stuff (even 'male' things like aftershave are largely bought by women, hence aftershave ads having shirtless models).

    I'm not a fan of some of the lines taken (few months ago saw a children's game advertised with the line "Even dad can play [understand] it"), but I suspect this is going to end up just cutting out gender-based humour.

    Humour I have no issues with and I am sure that the blokes do not like being shown as a collection of bumbling incompetents who cannot make coffee and biscuits (although there was the Gold Blend couple with Gareth Hunt in the 80s ooo-err!!!)


    As an aside, it's amusing, and perhaps telling, that the infamous Beach Body Ready ad was castigated for showing a healthy and attractive woman in a bikini, but nobody gave a shit about the ripped shirtless man with an eight-pack.

    Indeed.

    Obviously discrimination based on gender is abhorrent. That doesn't mean that taking the piss out of genders in comedy is something that should be a target, though.

    Edited extras bit: such as this :p

    twitter.com/bernerlap/status/887208780869627904

    I have to admit that is highly amusing. I will counterpoint it by saying that in one of the episodes, River Song turned out to be a better Tardis driver than the Doctor ;) Girl Power :+1::+1:

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612


    . In comedy, all's fair.

    I generally agree - but I think there are some issues that are just too insensitive?

    Imagine for instance someone telling jokes the next day that were mean about the victims of the Manchester bombing...
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    malcolmg said:

    Yes a good use of £111 billion on a country that cannot house people, I know let's have faster trains.
    What dummy could not upgrade the existing infrastructure and put on double decker trains like those stupid Europeans do.
    How many bridges do you think might need to be rebuilt?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,226

    Mr. Ace, so, mocking men today is acceptable but mocking women today isn't, because in the 12th century women had a really shit time of it?

    Did sexual discrimination against women end in the 12th century?


    I disagree. In comedy, all's fair. In real life, discrimination based on gender is wrong.

    If "all's fair" in comedy does that mean humour based on race or disability (for example) is fine?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999

    How do you know?

    What's the UK position on a transition period and how long it should be?

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Have you forgotten the "War of Summer" already? That cave-in happened at last month's negotiation.
    Agreeing to the timetable is a cave in? I would regard it as letting them have their own way to begin with as it makes little difference in the long term.

    Let them have their little victories, it feeds their arrogance. If we agree a multi billion euro bill, that would be a cave in.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Who's going to buy them ?

    People on expense accounts.

    It'll be great for politicians, bankers and bureaucrats who want to go quicker and on less crowded trains between London and Manchester or Leeds.

    HS2 is effectively a vast wealth transfer from the proles and prole towns to the metropolitan 1%.
    There are always lots of comments like this who either (a) don't understand how HS1 is priced, or (b) think without any evidence that HS2 will be priced totally differently.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dura_Ace said:

    Did sexual discrimination against women end in the 12th century? If "all's fair" in comedy does that mean humour based on race or disability (for example) is fine?
    I went to see a racist Irish comedian the other day. He started off with the one about Paddy and Murphy........
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    One is oppression, the other is mocking. Both are unnecessary, only one is actively harmful.

    Try being mocked 24/7 and see how harmless that is. You can wear people down if you keep at it long enough.

    Anyway, work beckons.....
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    rkrkrk said:

    I generally agree - but I think there are some issues that are just too insensitive?

    Imagine for instance someone telling jokes the next day that were mean about the victims of the Manchester bombing...
    It's about audience satisfaction. I know what sort of comedian I'm going to watch. I've decided at that point that I'm already opting in to either offensive material, or swearing, or lefty politics or feminism or The Krankies.

    So yes, people should be free to tell jokes. If there's no audience willing to listen then they'll change their act (or starve).
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Pong said:

    hmm.

    I struggle with statements like that. I think it's because they can't be tested. At what point is it decided if its a white elephant or not?

    When the passenger numbers for the first month of operation are published? or the fifth year? In the middle of a boom/recession?

    I see HS2 like the severn bridge, or the channel tunnel, or the national grid or whatever. It's infrastructure. It's what makes the country function. We can't not build it.

    Or, well, we can.

    But it means in a hundred years we'll end up as a crap, poor country while the rest of the world has advanced.

    What kind of legacy is that to leave to your grandchildren's grandchildren?
    If we don't build it we'll just have to start building it in 20-30 years when we already need it.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Try being mocked 24/7 and see how harmless that is. You can wear people down if you keep at it long enough.

    Anyway, work beckons.....
    Serving coffee and biscuits?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dura_Ace said:


    If "all's fair" in comedy does that mean humour based on race or disability (for example) is fine?

    Absolutely. That's the funniest stuff.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    You can almost hear the collective sigh's of disappointment from Remainers across the country;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40642254
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    What's the UK position on a transition period and how long it should be?

    To be decided I presume, like a lot of things.

    What's the EU position on a transition period and how long it should be?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    rkrkrk said:

    To me - a white elephant has to be relatively unused.

    HS2 may be a dreadful idea that goes crazily over budget.

    But it doesn't seem likely that it won't be be used?

    The millennium dome for instance... Although I gather the 02 arena is doing well?
    The Millennium Dome (the structure) was and remains a great success. It was the New Millennium Experience (the exhibition) which was a total failure - because the people in charge couldn't decide if it should be entertaining or educational, and so it ended up being neither.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Did sexual discrimination against women end in the 12th century? If "all's fair" in comedy does that mean humour based on race or disability (for example) is fine?
    It's rather amusing how Morris_Dancer is so used to his life of white male privilege that he remains completely blind to the existence of said privilege.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    GIN1138 said:

    You can almost hear the collective sigh's of disappointment from Remainers across the country;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40642254

    I am VERY happy about. I cannot afford to have the economy wrecked until January 2018.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,500
    On the topic of sexist adverts, the news channels are running clips of very old adverts that would look ridiculous today. I'd like to see some more recent examples of adverts which would have been banned. Otherwise this just looks like grandstanding to me.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331

    Tbf it's at her home, not a national moment of silence. Silly though.
    As for gender stereotyping, indeed. Tackling advertising when there are still clear injustices in the way we are as humans to each other is fiddling whilst my bum burns.
    A classic example of a First World Problem.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Agreeing to the timetable is a cave in? I would regard it as letting them have their own way to begin with as it makes little difference in the long term.

    Let them have their little victories, it feeds their arrogance. If we agree a multi billion euro bill, that would be a cave in.
    And it was only their second timetable that we agreed to, not their first. The final one was nearer to our initial position than theirs, which makes the perception that this is an EU win/UK cave-in perplexing.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    GeoffM said:

    It's about audience satisfaction. I know what sort of comedian I'm going to watch. I've decided at that point that I'm already opting in to either offensive material, or swearing, or lefty politics or feminism or The Krankies.

    So yes, people should be free to tell jokes. If there's no audience willing to listen then they'll change their act (or starve).
    This is easy to say when you're not the target.
    When you're the black footballer being pelted with bananas or something like that it's different I would suggest.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331

    I went to see a racist Irish comedian the other day. He started off with the one about Paddy and Murphy........
    I wouldn't believe anyone who claims never to have laughed at a racist joke.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 764
    Bitcoin is getting Segwit everyone!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999

    To be decided I presume, like a lot of things.

    What's the EU position on a transition period and how long it should be?

    We have to ask for one. As Davis, Hammond and Fox have made very clear the government has yet to agree on what it should cover and how long it should last. That's how prepared they are. I guess it's more fun leaking and stabbing each other in the back.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999
    GIN1138 said:

    You can almost hear the collective sigh's of disappointment from Remainers across the country;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40642254

    It's only right wing fundamentalist Leavers who are keen on self-harm.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rkrkrk said:

    This is easy to say when you're not the target.
    When you're the black footballer being pelted with bananas or something like that it's different I would suggest.
    How is that comedy?

    A comedian on a stage telling jokes != a hooligan in a crowd pelting somebody at a football ground.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    On Topic:

    I think looking back DD was just looking for a way to get out of Cameron's shadow cabinet before the Posh Boys demoted or sacked him.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    rkrkrk said:

    This is easy to say when you're not the target.
    When you're the black footballer being pelted with bananas or something like that it's different I would suggest.
    Are you seriously telling me you've been to a comedy club where the comedian was a black footballer and the audience paid to pelt him with bananas?

    That's absolutely unbelievable.

    Have they got tickets available for this Friday?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,393
    Pulpstar said:

    The WCML stuff seemed to go on forever, well it seemed that way from Coventry.
    Takes 59 mins to go from Cov to London Euston currently. Not bad, to be honest (94 miles of track).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    edited July 2017
    How long before we hear that the "surprise" fall in inflation is actually bad news because it shows the economy overall is slowing down? ;)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612

    How is that comedy?

    A comedian on a stage telling jokes != a hooligan in a crowd pelting somebody at a football ground.
    The people throwing the bananas probably think it's funny and just a joke?
    Maybe it's not the best example though.

    Maybe something like this:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7898845.stm
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    On Topic:

    I think looking back DD was just looking for a way to get out of Cameron's shadow cabinet before the Posh Boys demoted or sacked him.

    This was when PODWAS was still a recent thing. I think DD thought he could whip up an anti establishment movement behind him, topple Dave and win in 2010. Instead everyone said whaaaaaaaaaaa?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,393
    edited July 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    We're at 55.7 billion now, so ... yes, probably.
    "First rule of government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price? Only this one can be kept secret!"
    - John Hurt in "Contact" (1997)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994

    The dummy that in the nineteenth century built our infrastructure to a more restricted loading gauge, Malcolm.
    We are not in the nineteenth century now though. Must be a few grown up engineers who could work it out. Most likely we would need to import engineers, workers and the trains as our graduates are only capable of serving coffee or flipping burgers nowadays.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,867
    surbiton said:

    Why does these projects take so long in Britain ? In China, 5 years max. Even countries in Europe, it would be much shorter.
    Small crowded island with strong property rights.
    China is rather the antithesis of that, which is one reason their costs for HS rail are around a tenth of ours.

    I still don't understand the max speed requirement, though.
    It's not energy efficient, and is far more noisy (aerodynamics), requires a lot more work on whatever is to support the rails, and the actual travel times given the relatively short distances involved don't show that much of an advantage over 300kph.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771

    This was when PODWAS was still a recent thing. I think DD thought he could whip up an anti establishment movement behind him, topple Dave and win in 2010. Instead everyone said whaaaaaaaaaaa?
    Maybe.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    How long before we hear that the "surprise" fall in inflation is actually bad news because it shows the economy overall is slowing down? ;)

    That's the big problem with 24 hour news. The need to make every data point a story.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,500

    Takes 59 mins to go from Cov to London Euston currently. Not bad, to be honest (94 miles of track).
    It'll be fair bit more than 59 minutes once HS2 is open.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    GIN1138 said:

    You can almost hear the collective sigh's of disappointment from Remainers across the country;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40642254

    Yes, "unexpectedly" does have undertones of #despitebrexit about it, doesn't it?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,951
    Very good header Mike. I was gushing with support when Davis first did his by-election stunt, but I now appreciate I was an idiot and a dupe. The whole thing was a risible farce that achieved absolutely bugger all. Davis then skulked off to be the Tories' answer to Jeremy Corbyn - voting against his leadership at every opportunity - and was occasionally seen making boorish homophobic remarks in London bars or smirking with Michael Crick around canteen service hatches. What a complete and utter dud!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    GeoffM said:

    Are you seriously telling me you've been to a comedy club where the comedian was a black footballer and the audience paid to pelt him with bananas?

    That's absolutely unbelievable.

    Have they got tickets available for this Friday?
    Not sure what you're getting at?
    My point is - if you think all is fair in the name of comedy - then you have to defend all comedy.
    And you may find that harder when it's directed at you or your family.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Sean_F said:

    I wouldn't believe anyone who claims never to have laughed at a racist joke.
    The funniest stuff is usually when we laugh at ourselves.

    This guy pokes fun at me and he's funny.

    https://www.accidentaltalmudist.org/laughter
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771

    That's the big problem with 24 hour news. The need to make every data point a story.
    Yep. See also the way the release of GDP figures have been turned into a national "event"
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612

    That's the big problem with 24 hour news. The need to make every data point a story.
    Absolutely right.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771

    Very good header Mike. I was gushing with support when Davis first did his by-election stunt, but I now appreciate I was an idiot and a dupe. The whole thing was a risible farce that achieved absolutely bugger all. Davis then skulked off to be the Tories' answer to Jeremy Corbyn - voting against his leadership at every opportunity - and was occasionally seen making boorish homophobic remarks in London bars or smirking with Michael Crick around canteen service hatches. What a complete and utter dud!

    He's proving good as Brexit Secretary though, IMO...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    GIN1138 said:

    How long before we hear that the "surprise" fall in inflation is actually bad news because it shows the economy overall is slowing down? ;)

    I expect the lead will be £ falls.......
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,393
    edited July 2017

    There are always lots of comments like this who either (a) don't understand how HS1 is priced, or (b) think without any evidence that HS2 will be priced totally differently.
    HS1 is priced differently:

    London St Pancras to Ashford International return (off peak) = £31.30
    London Charing Cross to Ashford International return (off peak) = £26.10
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994

    Class 345 unit already in service!

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/883708980492734466
    I am going to Birmingham tomorrow by train, back in evening via Wolverhampton.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331
    GIN1138 said:

    Yep. See also the way the release of GDP figures have been turned into a national "event"
    It's not much of a surprise, given the way that oil prices have been falling.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375
    Mr. rkrkrk, I'd agree with that.

    A while ago I saw (on TV) Reginald D. Hunter, Live at the Apollo. Generally, I liked his routine but thought the Fritzl stuff (Friztl[sp] was the Austrian who kept his daughter in a secret cellar for decades during which he sexually abused her) too far.

    Mrs C, of course, with a blonde lady doctor and a lesbian companion, some might say that it's men who are going to really enjoy the series ;)

    Mr. Ace, there were some adverts on Channel 4 featuring disabled people, include one young lady whose hand spasmed. But her boyfriend enjoyed it. I don't see any need to ban that.

    Mr. Enjineeya, where was white male privilege when the Rotherham rapes were happening? A third of those victims were male, practically all were white.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994
    GeoffM said:

    The funniest stuff is usually when we laugh at ourselves.

    This guy pokes fun at me and he's funny.

    https://www.accidentaltalmudist.org/laughter
    If you cannot laugh at yourself then there is something far wrong with you, aka the PC police , sad tos*****
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rkrkrk said:

    The people throwing the bananas probably think it's funny and just a joke?
    Maybe it's not the best example though.

    Maybe something like this:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7898845.stm
    People attending a comedy club are willing participants in the comedy. People getting abused by hooligans at their workplace are not. That is the difference between comedy and abuse.

    As for the latter link, there is rightly in America a very strict bar in the First Amendment to prevent the law from restricting free speech especially where it comes to criticising or mocking politicians like the President (or as the Guardian USA points out in that link, Congressional democrats like Reid, Baucus and Pelosi).. We could learn a thing or two about free speech from that side of the pond.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    Yep. See also the way the release of GDP figures have been turned into a national "event"
    They will toy with colourful language too. Ministers were taken aback by June's collapse in inflation. Opposition warns inflation is in freefall. Public sector pay rises seem further away than ever after the catastrophic fall in Inflation. Economy is out of control as inflation dramatically reverses course against all expectations. Inflation collapses as wages and the economy decouple.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994
    GIN1138 said:

    How long before we hear that the "surprise" fall in inflation is actually bad news because it shows the economy overall is slowing down? ;)

    Heard that yesterday Gin, they get in early nowadays.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    edited July 2017
    malcolmg said:




    I am going to Birmingham tomorrow by train, back in evening via Wolverhampton.

    Morning Malc! :D

    You tempted to declare independence from the UK like this fella?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313

    :smiley:

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994

    I am VERY happy about. I cannot afford to have the economy wrecked until January 2018.
    I would prefer January 2019
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994
    GIN1138 said:

    Morning Malc! :D

    You tempted to declare independence from the UK like this fella?

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/887048562755981313

    :smiley:

    LOL, ours will be along soon , the Tories will clinch it for sure.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Precisely my point.
    But the issue of building a new track versus upgrading an old track already in-use is completely different to SpaceX vs the Shuttle.

    Not sure what point you're trying to make regarding the original discussion but SpaceX didn't get to where they are by keeping the Shuttle and making upgrades to it, while the Shuttle was still in active service. They built a new design fit for purpose, which is what HS2 are doing.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612

    People attending a comedy club are willing participants in the comedy. People getting abused by hooligans at their workplace are not. That is the difference between comedy and abuse.

    As for the latter link, there is rightly in America a very strict bar in the First Amendment to prevent the law from restricting free speech especially where it comes to criticising or mocking politicians like the President (or as the Guardian USA points out in that link, Congressional democrats like Reid, Baucus and Pelosi).. We could learn a thing or two about free speech from that side of the pond.
    I agree that it absolutely makes a difference whether you are a willing participant or not.

    But the original quote was all is fair in comedy, not all is fair in comedy between willing participants.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331

    Mr. rkrkrk, I'd agree with that.

    A while ago I saw (on TV) Reginald D. Hunter, Live at the Apollo. Generally, I liked his routine but thought the Fritzl stuff (Friztl[sp] was the Austrian who kept his daughter in a secret cellar for decades during which he sexually abused her) too far.

    Mrs C, of course, with a blonde lady doctor and a lesbian companion, some might say that it's men who are going to really enjoy the series ;)

    Mr. Ace, there were some adverts on Channel 4 featuring disabled people, include one young lady whose hand spasmed. But her boyfriend enjoyed it. I don't see any need to ban that.

    Mr. Enjineeya, where was white male privilege when the Rotherham rapes were happening? A third of those victims were male, practically all were white.

    You won't enjoy reading the report from Bright Blue, which is linked to on the Conservative Home website. Among other things, they want all police forces to emulate Nottinghamshire Constabulary in treating wolf-whistling as a "hate crime." Comments are uniformly hostile.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    malcolmg said:

    LOL, ours will be along soon , the Tories will clinch it for sure.

    Don't you think Scotland will swing strongly to Jezza?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612

    I expect the lead will be £ falls.......
    Well the headline is inflation slows.

    IMO real wages continue to fall is the most newsworthy element.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,951
    GIN1138 said:

    He's proving good as Brexit Secretary though, IMO...
    I must have missed his laundry list of achievements. But Brexit supporters need him to get the Tory leadership. If he doesn't he'll get in another massive huff, resign spectacularly and attempt to bring down Brexit with him. I can see how this is shaping up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rkrkrk said:

    I agree that it absolutely makes a difference whether you are a willing participant or not.

    But the original quote was all is fair in comedy, not all is fair in comedy between willing participants.
    All is fair in comedy. Abuse is not comedy it is abuse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331
    rkrkrk said:

    I agree that it absolutely makes a difference whether you are a willing participant or not.

    But the original quote was all is fair in comedy, not all is fair in comedy between willing participants.
    I think that it's largely self-policing. If a comedian oversteps what his audience considers to be the bounds of decency, then he'll get a bad reaction.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    edited July 2017

    All is fair in comedy. Abuse is not comedy it is abuse.
    So if i tell a racist joke about someone at work it's not comedy?
    Comedy has to be consensual? I'm not sure the line between comedy and abuse is as easily drawn as you think...

    Or to look at it another way... When I walked into a telegraph pole in front of a bunch of friends - they gave me a lot of abuse, but it was funny and it was comedy too...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375
    Mr. F, that's ****ing ridiculous.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    HS1 is priced differently:

    London St Pancras to Ashford International return (off peak) = £31.30
    London Charing Cross to Ashford International return (off peak) = £26.10
    Exactly. A small premium. Not double the price as Dadge suggested.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,405
    Actually if you want a more recent example of the stunning lack of judgement by David Davis you only have to look at his appointment of Stewart Jackson as his Chief of Staff.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,331

    Mr. F, that's ****ing ridiculous.

    It's a ridiculous report.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771

    I must have missed his laundry list of achievements. But Brexit supporters need him to get the Tory leadership. If he doesn't he'll get in another massive huff, resign spectacularly and attempt to bring down Brexit with him. I can see how this is shaping up.
    He won't "storm out".

    He'll still be there in March 2019 when the UK leaves the European Union.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,264
    GeoffM said:

    Are you a waiter now?

    Times hard in the tampon advertising sector?
    Don't tell me you've run out....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rkrkrk said:

    So if i tell a racist joke about someone at work it's not comedy?
    Comedy has to be consensual? I'm not sure the line between comedy and abuse is as easily drawn as you think...

    Or to look at it another way... When I walked into a telegraph pole in front of a bunch of friends - they gave me a lot of abuse, but it was funny and it was comedy too...
    The whole time people have been talking about comedy here they have been talking about comedians with an audience. Yes that means it is consensual. If it isn't consensual then it isn't comedy. Being racist about an unwilling colleague isn't comedy it is racism.

    An accident may be funny but that doesn't make it comedy either.

    Comedy is professional.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375
    Mr. rkrkrk, I partly agree. Some situations are clearly comedy (and if you don't like it then it's your job not to be there), such as comedy clubs, comedy shows on TV and comedy books.

    If you're joking informally with friends that can be a grey area where a little common sense goes a long way.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    GIN1138 said:

    He won't "storm out".

    He'll still be there in March 2019 when the UK leaves the European Union.
    Yes - and still on the first round of negotiations given the current rate of progress :D
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,066
    Give me strength.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Mr. rkrkrk, I partly agree. Some situations are clearly comedy (and if you don't like it then it's your job not to be there), such as comedy clubs, comedy shows on TV and comedy books.

    If you're joking informally with friends that can be a grey area where a little common sense goes a long way.

    Yes, but the problem with that is that common sense isn't.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Roger said:


    Don't tell me you've run out....
    When that happens - do you offer a PB discount?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Are you ready for Leadsom?

    twitter.com/speccoffeehouse/status/887260357156368385

    "...lets slip her leadership ambitions...

    Was the bit where she stood for the leadership not a bigger clue?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    I find it strange that barely a year after she withdrew having got down to the final two she now wants another go?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Give me strength.
    From what I have seen of her TV appearances, she makes Boris look like a Nobel Laureate. With her in charge the Tories will be in real troub.......

    Hmmmm.....

    Leadsom for Leader! Vote for Leadsom!!

    :D:D
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,066
    Another day, another round of Hard Left abuse on social media:

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/887232410454286337

    What's astonishing is that a quick look at this chap's bloke shows he is a classical music buff. When did classic music start attracting hate-filled abuse merchants?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    We know Andrea Leadsom wants to be leader: one clue was that she stood in the leadership election. The only new thing is that Leadsom talks of the Wizard of Oz being a book rather than a film -- handy to know if you find yourself in a game of charades with her at conference this autumn.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Another day, another round of Hard Left abuse on social media:

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/887232410454286337

    What's astonishing is that a quick look at this chap's bloke shows he is a classical music buff. When did classic music start attracting hate-filled abuse merchants?

    This is presumably the free speech that we do not have under the EU?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Are you ready for Leadsom?

    That's Daenerys Leadsom. "Speaking as a mother of dragons..."

    https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/887263640222564353
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,456

    What's astonishing is that a quick look at this chap's bloke shows he is a classical music buff. When did classic music start attracting hate-filled abuse merchants?

    Well there was that Wagner fan...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,771
    She won't be leader... But she might be the one prepared to wield the dagger...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,066
    GIN1138 said:

    She won't be leader... But she might be the one prepared to wield the dagger...
    I thought we had established there was no dagger these days. Just 30 or 40 (I can't remember the number) MPs writing to 1922 to demand an election.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,066

    Well there was that Wagner fan...
    :lol:
This discussion has been closed.