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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dave might be out-pointing Ed on leader ratings and CON lea

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited August 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dave might be out-pointing Ed on leader ratings and CON leads on the economy – but the blues remain the most disliked party

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  • But Ed is more disliked than the Toxic Tory party.

    Bizarre times
  • I thought UKIP were supposed to be a populist party...
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    As posted elsewhere, the facts of life are conservative. Until a majority understand this the country will remain in the mire.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It may ensure that the Conservatives don't win, but I doubt it will determine whether or not they lose.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311
    Evidently Labour need a leader like Dave, Dave needs a party like Labour.
    Tbf Dave's done his best with the Cons.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'd rather work for a company with a disagreeable boss that was successful than a cuddly apple pie one that made me redundant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,573
    Dear Lord what has happened in Egypt. What an absolute hell hole that country is turning into.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time.

    Can Avery reassure a trembling, fevered populace that Hurricane Hunchman Hapocalypse - feared by what feels like 100 years - is not about to wipe all life from the face of the earth? On the hand, restoring Roger to his rightful place in the prognostication stakes would take much of the sting out of the calamity.
  • Evidently Labour need a leader like Dave, Dave needs a party like Labour.
    Tbf Dave's done his best with the Cons.

    In case you missed it on the previous thread, Dave has only begun his best in Scotland.

    Via Mark Senior and antifrank

    For the lovers of Scottish sub samples , Ipsos Mori has

    Con 36% Lab 33% LD 15% SNP 14% UKIP 2%

    According to Baxter, this subsample would result in the SNP getting one seat, the Lib Dems four, the Conservatives 22 and Labour the balance.

    One of the Lib Dems' four seats would be Danny Alexander.
  • JohnO said:

    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time.

    Can Avery reassure a trembling, fevered populace that Hurricane Hunchman Hapocalypse - feared by what feels like 100 years - is not about to wipe all life from the face of the earth? On the hand, restoring Roger to his rightful place in the prognostication stakes would take much of the sting out of the calamity.

    The reason the markets have been spooked today is that a poll has been published showing Labour with a 10 point lead.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,658
    I dislike going to the dentist but I still go.

    OTOH with a 5% difference UKIP\Con does that mean convicted kippers are also giving Cameron the thumbs down ? So he gets on barrel from the left and another from the right ?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Bizarre times

    Not really. Its all about subliminal messages isn't it?

    Tory message - there's no easy way out of this.

    Labour message - there is an easy way out of this.

    Nobody 'likes' the former over the latter.

    Surely the public is saying that they don't like austerity (shock horror) but all things considered Dave isn't doing a bad job of something unpalatable.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT
    Roger said:

    I can't even imagine where MORI got their sub-sample. Tories up here are as rare as good restaurants with 'Scottish' in their Name. Maybe they sent a team up to Aberdeen and Easteross was having afternoon tea with the Fity family'.....

    There used to be plenty of Tories in Edinburgh, Roger. Even during the Edinburgh Festival. You would find them in the banking halls of The Mound.

    Nowadays the banks are all boarded up by bailliffs and their halls occupied by the Alternative Theatre Club of Goldsmiths University performing a mime version of The Vagina Monologues.

    Leave you cameras in the left luggage office of Waverley Station and head North to the land of Easter Ross.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013
    JohnO said:

    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time..

    Caution ahead of US data releases due later today:

    Traders are keeping their eyes peeled for a long list of data in the States this afternoon, including: CPI inflation; jobless claims; New York and Philadelphia manufacturing; industrial production; and the NAHB housing market index

    Also Egypt.

    http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/market-reports/market-reports/london-midday-markets-underwhelmed-by-strong-uk-retail-sales
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    For those with limited luck - 10 bets you will always win.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rYAsst2TxPk
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,658

    JohnO said:

    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time.

    Can Avery reassure a trembling, fevered populace that Hurricane Hunchman Hapocalypse - feared by what feels like 100 years - is not about to wipe all life from the face of the earth? On the hand, restoring Roger to his rightful place in the prognostication stakes would take much of the sting out of the calamity.

    The reason the markets have been spooked today is that a poll has been published showing Labour with a 10 point lead.
    Not in Scotland.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311


    For the lovers of Scottish sub samples

    Lovers of Scottish sub-samples are in the Aleister Crowley league of perversion.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time.

    In two words, the Fed. We've just had some very, very strong US employment data, which is the Fed's trigger for starting to turn monetary policy around.

    The process of weaning the addict off the smack of super easy money is about to start in America.

    Which puts Mr Carney in rather an interesting position.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    The number of prescriptions dispensed by GPs in Wales has grown by more than 50% in 10 years.

    More prescriptions are given per person in Wales, which scrapped charges in 2007, than any other country in the UK.

    Last year 74.2 million prescriptions were written, up from 48.8 million in 2002.

    However the total cost of prescribed medicines has fallen to its lowest level in nine years - £557.5m

    The new figures showing a 52.3% increase in prescriptions have reignited a political debate over Wales' free prescriptions policy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-23713922
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,758

    JohnO said:

    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time..

    Caution ahead of US data releases due later today:

    Traders are keeping their eyes peeled for a long list of data in the States this afternoon, including: CPI inflation; jobless claims; New York and Philadelphia manufacturing; industrial production; and the NAHB housing market index

    Also Egypt.

    http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/market-reports/market-reports/london-midday-markets-underwhelmed-by-strong-uk-retail-sales
    Tory fortunes rise, financial market's fall. Coincidence? You should see the market falls in the years running up to the Tory's 2010 return to power. ;-) Hope you are well.

  • For the lovers of Scottish sub samples

    Lovers of Scottish sub-samples are in the Aleister Crowley league of perversion.
    Is Aleister another variation of Alistair/Alastair?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,299
    Leftists are more partisan. In other news, the sky is blue...
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    This whole 'like/dislike' question is very odd. I think John Major is more likeable than Maggie was, but that doesn't alter my judgement that Maggie was the greatest peacetime PM of the twentieth century, whereas John Major.. not so much. And I neither 'like' nor 'dislike' any of the parties, I just think that the Conservatives make a better government, once which faces up to what needs to be done.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Surely this all points to NOM?

    OT
    A bit of fun for Dr Who fans
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Jonathan said:

    Tory fortunes rise, financial market's fall. Coincidence? You should see the market falls in the years running up to the Tory's 2010 return to power. ;-) Hope you are well.

    Wait till you see the market movements after six months of PM Miliband in a hung parliament. I'm taking the appropriate avoiding action, just in case.

    (Yes, very well, thank you! And you, I hope)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311


    For the lovers of Scottish sub samples

    Lovers of Scottish sub-samples are in the Aleister Crowley league of perversion.
    Is Aleister another variation of Alistair/Alastair?
    I assume so, though I've never seen it spelled that way anywhere else (bit of a burden to bear the name of the Wickedest man in the World). There is a Scottish connection, AC did some of his perving at Boleskine House by Loch Ness, subsequently owned by Jimmy Page.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Financier that article is weird

    It state that the number of prescriptions has soared, but at the same time the bill for paying for them has dropped.

    I guess that's because drugs become generic when patents expire and the cost of them plummets...???
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This is rather fun What's Your Vote Worth

    http://action.electoral-reform.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1754&ea.campaign.id=22216

    Mine's worth >

    "In 2010 your vote was worth £0.73 to the parties.

    That places you in the middle range for party spending. The big money was elsewhere, but you still got some interest.

    £39,956.63 was spent in Wealden by all candidates in the last general election. 54,969 headed to the polls, leaving turnout at 71.58%.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Tory fortunes rise, financial market's fall. Coincidence?''

    Gordon Brown becomes prime minister. Worst financial crisis since the depression, worst recession for decades.

    Coincidence??
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    FPT
    tim said:



    The exchange is here

    http://storify.com/leftytgirl/james-delingpole-rape-comment-towards-suzanne-moor

    Sounds like UKiP made a wise decision regarding th homeopathy pushing "science blogger"

    I know it's there; I've read it. Have you? And do you seriously think that's tweeting a "rape fantasy"?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Another major boost for Ed yesterday....apparently he didn't make a speech

  • For the lovers of Scottish sub samples

    Lovers of Scottish sub-samples are in the Aleister Crowley league of perversion.
    Is Aleister another variation of Alistair/Alastair?
    I assume so, though I've never seen it spelled that way anywhere else (bit of a burden to bear the name of the Wickedest man in the World). There is a Scottish connection, AC did some of his perving at Boleskine House by Loch Ness, subsequently owned by Jimmy Page.
    Thanks, I've become interested in the spelling of Alistair recently.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited August 2013
    And @tim, you've avoided answering me about housing benefit. Do you really think its rise is impossible to stop?

    If not, why on earth did you describe its rise as "inexorable"?

    Or is this an example of a simple man using complicated, long words that he doesn't know the meaning of?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,758
    taffys said:

    ''Tory fortunes rise, financial market's fall. Coincidence?''

    Gordon Brown becomes prime minister. Worst financial crisis since the depression, worst recession for decades.

    Coincidence??

    Probably was. If Brown had fallen under a bus, anyone else who became PM in 2007 would probably have gone through the same.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311


    Thanks, I've become interested in the spelling of Alistair recently.

    Progeny looming? :)

    Alasdhair is the more Gaelic spelling.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    He will probably get another boost tomorrow..and not make another one...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    A party in power in hard time being the most unliked... shocking.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    As far as ipsos-MORI are concerned I take anything they print about UKIP with a pinch of salt.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT The Times review of Wizard of Oz

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRtlOLtCUAA5-86.jpg:large

    The Times of London @thetimes
    Wizard of Oz premiered #onthisday in 1939. @thetimes reviewer didn’t think much of Technicolor… bit of a fad :)
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626



    Thanks, I've become interested in the spelling of Alistair recently.

    Alistair is of course the correct spelling.
  • Sorry all, proud Dad alert.

    My son has just got a place at Nottingham University. He had not applied for anything before his A level results came in because he was too worried about tempting fate. But he phoned them up this morning and he starts next term having got in on clearing.

    I am delighted, of course, but it means that another one is about to fly the nest. We'll be left with one, who is doing her GCSEs next year. It's funny how your life can change in the space of a few hours.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JohnO said:

    O/T - What's spooking the markets today? Well, actually for some time.

    Can Avery reassure a trembling, fevered populace that Hurricane Hunchman Hapocalypse - feared by what feels like 100 years - is not about to wipe all life from the face of the earth? On the hand, restoring Roger to his rightful place in the prognostication stakes would take much of the sting out of the calamity.

    UK figures surprising on the upside!

    Take today. The Visa UK Consumer Expenditure Index for July, usually a good early indicator of retail sales, reported that Retail Sales had fallen by -2.4% in July on June. Nearly two weeks later the ONS Retail Sales figures showed the monthly figures as up 1.1% (Vol) and 1.4% (Val), with annual growth of 4.9% (Val) and 3.0 (Vol) compared to Visa's report of an annual fall of -0.1%.

    The UK is going through one of those very rare and usually short-lived periods of combined luck and high performance where everything not only goes right but betters expectations. A bit like all the run-outs, tosses, DRS reviews, rain breaks and tail ender innings all falling for England in cricket.

    Take continued nervousness about Europe - yesterday's growth figures calmed but didn't convince - and odd things start happening. The pound is now trading at near $1.56 when most market analysts were expecting it to be in the $1.45-$1.50 range just a few weeks ago.

    OK, London traders don't follow and react to the same news that we politicos follow, and they tend to be far more sensitive to sentiment and movements in other global markets, but all the good UK stats are definitely influencing trades and values

    On the FTSE 100 and All Share indices, I don't see much evidence of anything but lilting in the August doldrums. But hunchman will surely be looking over the side of the boat and claiming to see Elliott waves..



  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    I expect the markets are (at least partly) being spooked by Egypt burning in flames.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,820
    @Avery: although the UK is the European market that is most down today.

    Re why things are down, remember that most global stock markets are up between 10 and 20% in dollar terms this year (before dividends). So, we've had a strong year for share price growth, and a little breather should not be unexpected.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    I expect the markets are (at least partly) being spooked by Egypt burning in flames.

    Yes, looks like a new civil war brewing.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Politico Daily @Politico_Daily
    All 5 Respect cllrs in Bradford have temporarily resigned the party whip until George Galloway MP apologises for saying they are "disloyal"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Plato said:

    Politico Daily @Politico_Daily
    All 5 Respect cllrs in Bradford have temporarily resigned the party whip until George Galloway MP apologises for saying they are "disloyal"

    I agree with the councillors as I voted for one of them ;-)

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Financier said:

    The number of prescriptions dispensed by GPs in Wales has grown by more than 50% in 10 years.

    More prescriptions are given per person in Wales, which scrapped charges in 2007, than any other country in the UK.

    Last year 74.2 million prescriptions were written, up from 48.8 million in 2002.

    However the total cost of prescribed medicines has fallen to its lowest level in nine years - £557.5m

    The new figures showing a 52.3% increase in prescriptions have reignited a political debate over Wales' free prescriptions policy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-23713922

    If you look at the yearly figures you can see that the number of prescriptions was going up year after year before prescriptions were made free in 2007 - indeed the increase last year was the smallest in the record.

    What a completely useless bit of reporting.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,658

    Sorry all, proud Dad alert.

    My son has just got a place at Nottingham University. He had not applied for anything before his A level results came in because he was too worried about tempting fate. But he phoned them up this morning and he starts next term having got in on clearing.

    I am delighted, of course, but it means that another one is about to fly the nest. We'll be left with one, who is doing her GCSEs next year. It's funny how your life can change in the space of a few hours.

    Congrats SO

    On the downside you'll soon be financially poorer ! What's he going to study ?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    rcs1000 said:

    @Avery: although the UK is the European market that is most down today.

    Re why things are down, remember that most global stock markets are up between 10 and 20% in dollar terms this year (before dividends). So, we've had a strong year for share price growth, and a little breather should not be unexpected.

    rcs1000 said:

    @Avery: although the UK is the European market that is most down today.

    Re why things are down, remember that most global stock markets are up between 10 and 20% in dollar terms this year (before dividends). So, we've had a strong year for share price growth, and a little breather should not be unexpected.

    Agreed.

    Just looked at volume trades on FTSE 100 components. Not much volume being traded outside of Vodafone (-2.45%) and Lloyds (-1.83%). Both are pre-sale/restructuring stocks.

    Would be surprised if today's 1% Index fall wasn't reversed during week.

    But then again hunchman may have it right!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Yes, looks like a new civil war brewing.

    I disagree. Have millions of Egyptians really got the stomach to fight for the reinstallation of a suffocating islamism?? I very much doubt it.

    If the army does hold elections then what is happening now, whilst nasty, will be forgotten.

    The truth that dare not speak its name is that Egypt probably wants to be a free, modern, prosperous secular state free of all the religious b*llocks that have dogged many countries in region for so long.

    That is why the stakes there are so high.

    The christian world has become the post christian world. Who's to say the same might not happen in the Islamic world?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,820
    AveryLP said:

    Agreed.

    Just looked at volume trades on FTSE 100 components. Not much volume being traded outside of Vodafone (-2.45%) and Lloyds (-1.83%). Both are pre-sale/restructuring stocks.

    Would be surprised if today's 1% Index fall wasn't reversed during week.

    But then hunchman may have it right!

    I hope hunchman has a decent job... as his investing profits are unlikely to be much to write home about :-)
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Thanks, I've become interested in the spelling of Alistair recently.

    Crowley also used "Alastor" although I think that was an alias only used when he was in the US. He started out as a much less exciting "Edward".

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:



    The truth that dare not speak its name is that Egypt probably wants to be a free, modern, prosperous secular state free of all the religious b*llocks that have dogged many countries in region for so long.

    Why did the Muslim Brotherhood win the election then? The chances of the military holding free and fair elections look vanishingly slim now.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:



    I hope hunchman has a decent job... as his investing profits are unlikely to be much to write home about :-)

    Hunchman is an actuary. You dont get too many actuaries with a deep interest in astrology. He's also one of the nicest posters on pbc.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    You've got to love the left. When there's no growth that's a terrible crime. And when there's growth its the wrong growth.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,688
    taffys said:

    Yes, looks like a new civil war brewing.

    I disagree. Have millions of Egyptians really got the stomach to fight for the reinstallation of a suffocating islamism?? I very much doubt it.

    If the army does hold elections then what is happening now, whilst nasty, will be forgotten.

    The truth that dare not speak its name is that Egypt probably wants to be a free, modern, prosperous secular state free of all the religious b*llocks that have dogged many countries in region for so long.

    That is why the stakes there are so high.

    The christian world has become the post christian world. Who's to say the same might not happen in the Islamic world?

    I doubt it. Even secular Egyptians are pretty religious.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,820
    Neil said:

    rcs1000 said:



    I hope hunchman has a decent job... as his investing profits are unlikely to be much to write home about :-)

    Hunchman is an actuary. You dont get too many actuaries with a deep interest in astrology. He's also one of the nicest posters on pbc.

    An actuary is certainly a decent job.

    I was just gently ribbing hunchman about his 'sell equities, buy gold' prediction at what now looks the top of the gold market, and the bottom of the equities one. I am always reminded of the wonderful Buffett quote on gold:

    “I will say this about gold. If you took all the gold in the world, it would roughly make a cube 67 feet on a side…Now for that same cube of gold, it would be worth at today’s market prices about $7 trillion – that’s probably about a third of the value of all the stocks in the United States…For $7 trillion…you could have all the farmland in the United States, you could have about seven Exxon Mobils (XOM) and you could have a trillion dollars of walking-around money…And if you offered me the choice of looking at some 67 foot cube of gold and looking at it all day, and you know me touching it and fondling it occasionally…Call me crazy, but I’ll take the farmland and the Exxon Mobils.”
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Why did the Muslim Brotherhood win the election then? The chances of the military holding free and fair elections look vanishingly slim now.''

    I don't know I didn't see their manifesto. But something clearly went very wrong. I doubt whether the army would have been able to do what they have done without the support of very significant sections of the people. And if you read the accounts of the crisis you learn they do have a good deal of support.

    In essence I think both the brotherhood and the army have tried to hi-jack the population's aspirations. I kind of hope neither remain in power.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,688

    Sorry all, proud Dad alert.

    My son has just got a place at Nottingham University. He had not applied for anything before his A level results came in because he was too worried about tempting fate. But he phoned them up this morning and he starts next term having got in on clearing.

    I am delighted, of course, but it means that another one is about to fly the nest. We'll be left with one, who is doing her GCSEs next year. It's funny how your life can change in the space of a few hours.

    Nottingham's a good university. What's he reading?

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    I don't know I didn't see their manifesto.

    I didnt read it in detail myself either but I strongly doubt it majored on a secular post-islamic future for Egypt!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,688
    tim said:

    The Tory ceiling is too low for them to win a majority, hence the fact that they haven't done it for over 20 years.
    Cameron needs to get UKIP down to 5% and win over centrist voters for that, and having an Australian dog whistle is not an aid, it boosts UKIP and solidifies the centre left

    39% is enough to win,

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @rcs1000

    Gently ribbing hunchman about any of his predictions (and his belief in the usefulness of elliot waves / astrology) is one of my favourite pass-times on pbc ;)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    tim said:

    More on the bubble madness of Osborne, and interest rates.

    http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-illusory-housing-recovery.html

    Tim
    This morning you were posting about the fact that R Dodd had posted about something(according to you) 20 times. I hope you see the irony of it in this your probable 300th comment/link/retweet this month about Osborne/ housing bubble etc
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I doubt it. Even secular Egyptians are pretty religious.

    I can't contradict you because I don;t know any. What is clear is that a very large section of the population didn't like the way the brotherhood were going. And that was in a religious direction.

    The brotherhood weren;t exactly planning to submit themselves to the verdict of the people in four years, either. They were, as I understand it, planning to move the goalposts very significantly before that event.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What it is to be purged.

    "A few years ago someone pointed out the media’s habit of concentrating on white, photogenic girls, jumping for joy at the prospect of a place at Oxford or Cambridge, followed by a first-class honours degree, and eventually the opportunity to write countless blogs condemning their own privileged upbringing. Back then it was a cute and witty observation. But today it has become just another of the Left’s Mandatory Tweets, or LMTs.

    The Left is now quite an exclusive club. In fact, it’s so exclusive, I’m not all that sure how you join. All I do know is people are frequently telling me I’m not a “real” member of the Left, so there must be a list, or application form or membership secretary knocking around somewhere. Anyway, once you finally do become a member, there are a number of strict rules. One is you must not, under pain of death, let anyone ever catch you saying anything nice about Tony Blair. Or bad about Tony Benn.

    Another is that if you are a man, you have to buy yourself a plaid shirt. Unless you work for the Labour Party. Then it’s a dark suit and red tie. If you’re a woman working for the Labour Party you can wear what you want, but if you’re out in public you must press a mobile phone to your ear at all times. If you don’t, there is a danger you won’t be taken seriously. You must also be aware that working for the Labour Party doesn’t automatically make you a member of the Left. Remember, Tony Blair used to do stuff for the Labour party..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231282/the-mandatory-tweets-of-the-left-a-users-guide/
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I didnt read it in detail myself either but I strongly doubt it majored on a secular post-islamic future for Egypt!

    Indeed. So why was there so much opposition to this government? they were only doing what it said on the tin. Why do so many support the army? (which the papers, buried in the story, say they do).

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    The brotherhood weren;t exactly planning to submit themselves to the verdict of the people in four years, either. They were, as I understand it, planning to move the goalposts very significantly before that event.

    That's a bit unfair - the Muslim Brotherhood won a free and fair election. The army darent offer that in the near future for fear that it would let the Muslim Brotherhood back in again. It's clear which side is moving the goalposts.
  • Neil said:

    taffys said:


    The brotherhood weren;t exactly planning to submit themselves to the verdict of the people in four years, either. They were, as I understand it, planning to move the goalposts very significantly before that event.

    That's a bit unfair - the Muslim Brotherhood won a free and fair election. The army darent offer that in the near future for fear that it would let the Muslim Brotherhood back in again. It's clear which side is moving the goalposts.
    But Neil what I want to know is why isn't there a Muslim Sisterhood??
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    More on the bubble madness of Osborne, and interest rates.

    http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-illusory-housing-recovery.html

    Tim
    This morning you were posting about the fact that R Dodd had posted about something(according to you) 20 times. I hope you see the irony of it in this your probable 300th comment/link/retweet this month about Osborne/ housing bubble etc
    And I'll carry on, this is a forum where people take five days to understand mortality data that a child could understand in 50 minutes.

    Anyhow would you prefer to discuss the key fact related to the thread?

    Among 2010 Lib Dems.

    Do you like/dislike the following

    Labour Party net +9
    Tory Party net -55
    Do you like the following: PM right now = Dave, LOTO right now = Miliband :)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    That's a bit unfair - the Muslim Brotherhood won a free and fair election.

    100% conceded.

    Why didn't the hundreds of thousands protesting in the central square for days before the army coup just say to themselves 'oh well, we can vote this lot out in four years time, lets just go home, we've made our point.'
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:



    Why didn't the hundreds of thousands protesting in the central square for days before the army coup just say to themselves 'oh well, we can vote this lot out in four years time, lets just go home, we've made our point.'

    I imagine at least some of them are now regretting they didnt do just that. In any case there is no number of protesters that justifies a military coup.
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    Aren't mid-term Governments usually disliked? Especially during a recession? I wonder if OGH could do a useful thread on recoveries from mid-term blues to victory amongst Governing parties over the last 30 years, both in terms of raw vote share and deficit to Opposition?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Sorry all, proud Dad alert.

    My son has just got a place at Nottingham University. He had not applied for anything before his A level results came in because he was too worried about tempting fate. But he phoned them up this morning and he starts next term having got in on clearing.

    I am delighted, of course, but it means that another one is about to fly the nest. We'll be left with one, who is doing her GCSEs next year. It's funny how your life can change in the space of a few hours.

    Congrats Southam. We don't see eye to eye on politics but I'm sure we do on education for our children and later grandchildren.
  • RightChuckRightChuck Posts: 110
    Neil said:

    taffys said:


    The brotherhood weren;t exactly planning to submit themselves to the verdict of the people in four years, either. They were, as I understand it, planning to move the goalposts very significantly before that event.

    That's a bit unfair - the Muslim Brotherhood won a free and fair election. The army darent offer that in the near future for fear that it would let the Muslim Brotherhood back in again. It's clear which side is moving the goalposts.
    Worth reading this though...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/22/morsi-constitutional-declaration_n_2175651.html
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited August 2013
    People retrofit their like/dislike to the party they support.

    Tories need better than -57 though.

    Intriguingly both parties report worse figures than (2xVI)-100 implying non voters are more likely to say "dislike" than voters are to say "like"
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Aren't mid-term Governments usually disliked? Especially during a recession? I wonder if OGH could do a useful thread on recoveries from mid-term blues to victory amongst Governing parties over the last 30 years, both in terms of raw vote share and deficit to Opposition?

    You could try Rod's swingback analysis. It correctly predicted a hung Parliament for 2010 on the basis of the by-election swings during the 2005-2010 Parliament.

    It is difficult to do a similar analysis for the swingback from opinion polls, because opinion poll methodology has changed so much since the 1980s. Much of the apparent swingback from mid-term Opposition poll leads then was due to the simple fact that the opinion polls were not as good as they are today.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Putting the IPSOS into the Lebo & Norpoth model gives a forecast for 2015.

    Tory vote lead 6.4%
    Tory seat lead 43
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013
    tim said:

    The model designed to predict elections with data inputted three months before an election and one which when misused using data two years before the 2010 election gave the Tories a lead of 150+ seats?

    Yes, that one, which would have over-estimated the performance of the opposition two years before the 2010 election.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Obama finally calling the massacre a massacre.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    The only useful metric out of these polls so far out from the GE is the trend.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RodCrosby said:

    Putting the IPSOS into the Lebo & Norpoth model gives a forecast for 2015.

    Tory vote lead 6.4%
    Tory seat lead 43

    And, still not an absolute majority. In 2010, Tories led Labour by 50 seats.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Worth reading this though...

    Quite. There was no way Morsi was going to submit himself to the will of the people in four years.

    That article suggests he called a de facto state of emergency before the army declared a real one.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Aren't mid-term Governments usually disliked? Especially during a recession? I wonder if OGH could do a useful thread on recoveries from mid-term blues to victory amongst Governing parties over the last 30 years, both in terms of raw vote share and deficit to Opposition?

    You could try Rod's swingback analysis. It correctly predicted a hung Parliament for 2010 on the basis of the by-election swings during the 2005-2010 Parliament.

    It is difficult to do a similar analysis for the swingback from opinion polls, because opinion poll methodology has changed so much since the 1980s. Much of the apparent swingback from mid-term Opposition poll leads then was due to the simple fact that the opinion polls were not as good as they are today.
    One of the differences in this parliament with others has been that Labour started off badly [ in 2011 , the Tories did very well ]. But, therafter, Labour has done well.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:

    There was no way Morsi was going to submit himself to the will of the people in four years.

    You've got no evidence to support that whatsoever.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Aren't mid-term Governments usually disliked? Especially during a recession? I wonder if OGH could do a useful thread on recoveries from mid-term blues to victory amongst Governing parties over the last 30 years, both in terms of raw vote share and deficit to Opposition?

    You could try Rod's swingback analysis. It correctly predicted a hung Parliament for 2010 on the basis of the by-election swings during the 2005-2010 Parliament.

    It is difficult to do a similar analysis for the swingback from opinion polls, because opinion poll methodology has changed so much since the 1980s. Much of the apparent swingback from mid-term Opposition poll leads then was due to the simple fact that the opinion polls were not as good as they are today.
    There may well be more by-elections to come, but at the moment, the average Con - Lab by-election swing is 7.6%. If we assume a swingback of 4%, per Rod's article, then this predicts a swing at the next election of 3.6% in Labour's favour.

    Using Electoral Calculus, this predicts a seat distribution that is almost exactly the mirror image of 2010, with Labour short of a majority, and Conservative + Lib Dems also just short. The model isn't accurate to that degree, but it does point to the most likely outcome being another hung Parliament.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Tim
    I have no wish to discuss anything with you, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of you attacking Richard Dodd for doing what you do all day every day.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    taffys said:

    Worth reading this though...

    Quite. There was no way Morsi was going to submit himself to the will of the people in four years.

    That article suggests he called a de facto state of emergency before the army declared a real one.

    This is when "secular liberals" decide for themselves based on their own instints that "there was no way Morsi was going to submit himself to the will of the people in four years. "

    So, you gun down people !

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL

    RT @MarkReckons: Here's a thought. If Spitting Image came back now Owen Jones would probably have a puppet
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    tim said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Putting the IPSOS into the Lebo & Norpoth model gives a forecast for 2015.

    Tory vote lead 6.4%
    Tory seat lead 43

    The model designed to predict elections with data inputted three months before an election and one which when misused using data two years before the 2010 election gave the Tories a lead of 150+ seats?
    Oh do shut up. The model is not being misused. We all know that the election is not 3 months away. Just like when looking at opinion polls, we all know the election is not "tomorrow". Ergo, we must ignore and suppress opinion polls until the night before polling day... Cobblers!

    The L&N forecast 3 months out is merely the final prediction. We can monitor the model's output long in advance of that...

    Tough that it's not looking good for your party, at the moment, but that's politics.
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Putting the IPSOS into the Lebo & Norpoth model gives a forecast for 2015.

    Tory vote lead 6.4%
    Tory seat lead 43

    And, still not an absolute majority. In 2010, Tories led Labour by 50 seats.
    When you say rather loosely 'in 2010' is this before, after, or during the General Election? I think we should be told.

    For a Governing party to be 10% adrift, with their Opposition struggling to break 40%, mid-term, as the country starts pulling out of a recession is by no means forlorn.

    It's also worth bearing in mind the LD's won't be able to savage the Tories in quite the same way during the GE campaign.

    Anyway, sorry to say that as a left-leaner I think EdM is pretty hopeless to be honest. He might be worse than Gordon Brown but I'm not sure that's actually possible.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2013
    ''You've got no evidence to support that whatsoever.''

    Neither did El Baradei mate, but that didn't stop him accusing Morsi of wanting to be Egypt's new pharoah (as per rightchuck's article).

    A democratically elected government doesn't make the people elected democrats. Plenty of journalists and others were arrested for un-islamic activities and the like during Morsi's time in government.

    A the end he was planning to bypass the judicial system and basically do what he wanted. If history is anything to go by, people like that tend to want to hold onto power whatever the people think
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Afternoon all and on topic, few voters vote for a politician they like, they vote for someone they respect and believe can get things done. Few people liked Margaret Thatcher but even most of her political opponents respected her.

    What is the obsession with 2010 LibDem voters? Unless they are different creatures from 1992 Tories and 2005 Labour voters, a great many will simply stay at home in 2015.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    surbiton said:

    Aren't mid-term Governments usually disliked? Especially during a recession? I wonder if OGH could do a useful thread on recoveries from mid-term blues to victory amongst Governing parties over the last 30 years, both in terms of raw vote share and deficit to Opposition?

    You could try Rod's swingback analysis. It correctly predicted a hung Parliament for 2010 on the basis of the by-election swings during the 2005-2010 Parliament.

    It is difficult to do a similar analysis for the swingback from opinion polls, because opinion poll methodology has changed so much since the 1980s. Much of the apparent swingback from mid-term Opposition poll leads then was due to the simple fact that the opinion polls were not as good as they are today.
    One of the differences in this parliament with others has been that Labour started off badly [ in 2011 , the Tories did very well ]. But, therafter, Labour has done well.
    Is it really that different? The swings to the Conservatives early in the 2005-2010 Parliament were not that impressive either. They didn't get going until Crewe and Nantwich, really.

    Meanwhile, the swings to Labour in the 2013 by-elections (not including Northern Ireland) have been 7.05% and 4.35% - both of which have brought the overall average down.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Is Tim related to Gerald Warner? On reading the Warner column in last week's Scotland on Sunday I realised it was the same guff Tim regurgitates on here day in and day out.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    One of the things that strikes me is that if the 2015 contest is virtually no change overall (at least between Con and lab) we should expect some two-way traffic in seats between the two main parties...

    Which seats are possible Tory gains from Labour? Hampstead & Kilburn?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited August 2013
    Square Root..I posted three times about Eds speech.
    How many times just today have we heard about the squid pointing, Daves pimping of grieving relatives and "as a Father" ..
  • Square Root..I posted three times bout Eds speech.How many times just today have we heard about the squid pointing, Daves pimping of grieving relatives and "as a Father'

    tim is just a Tory agent provocateur - pay him no mind!
This discussion has been closed.