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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: Do voters think Corbyn is ready to be PM?

On this week’s PB/Polling Matters podcast Keiran is joined by Habib Butt and Leo Barasi to discuss the latest polling news and analysis of the week.

Read the full story here

Ishmael_Z

1

FrancisUrquhart

Reselection back on the agenda....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/05/jeremy-corbyn-could-back-mandatory-reselection-labour-mps-amid/

Mortimer

3rd like Gove!

DavidBrackenbury

Forth, like the bridge!!

MikeL

Per BBC:

"Many students boasted on social media of having voted twice in last month's general election, an MP has claimed.

Conservative Sir Henry Bellingham said there was "clear evidence" of students saying they voted at their home and university addresses.

"Surely this is straightforward electoral fraud," he said.

Cabinet Office Minister Chris Skidmore promised to raise the "completely unacceptable" allegation with the Electoral Commission."

With postal votes available on demand, surely there is no strong reason for allowing people to register in two different locations.

So should the Government now change the law so this is no longer allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40509178

Beverley_C

Sixtus like a Rees-Mogg

Charles

Quintus Rees-Mogg

geoffw

Relative of Andor Butt?

Scott_P

@seanjonesqc: Tried to change my Twitter name to Septimus Botolph Rumplestiltskin Rees-Mogg #DENIED

The_Apocalypse

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

RobD

MikeL said:

Per BBC:

"Many students boasted on social media of having voted twice in last month's general election, an MP has claimed.

Conservative Sir Henry Bellingham said there was "clear evidence" of students saying they voted at their home and university addresses.

"Surely this is straightforward electoral fraud," he said.

Cabinet Office Minister Chris Skidmore promised to raise the "completely unacceptable" allegation with the Electoral Commission."

With postal votes available on demand, surely there is no strong reason for allowing people to register in two different locations.

So should the Government now change the law so this is no longer allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40509178

Could check after the fact. People who are registered twice get different coloured ballot papers. The ballot numbers of these ballots are entered onto a database after the election by each authority. If a duplicate appears, they ask the courts to get permission to find out who it was, and then they prosecute. After the verification the database is destroyed.

It wouldn't prevent fraud, but it would mean anyone who did it was extremely likely to be caught and prosecuted.

ThreeQuidder

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

She doesn't have any money to give to the DUP. The DUP is not Northern Ireland any more than the SNP is Scotland.

Mortimer

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

MikeL

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

Of course it looks bad.

But the reality is that the money given to the DUP is peanuts - it's not £1bn per year - most is over 2 years, some is over 5 years. I think it's £470m in Year 1.

In contrast I believe the deficit for 2016/17 came in £5bn below the forecast made at the Budget in March 2017 - ie just a few weeks before the end of the year.

However, as discussed many times on here, if you are having to explain the detail you've already lost the argument.

Paul Johnson wrote an article in The Times yesterday saying any Government can always find the money for any one particular thing - but what actually matters is that the Budget as a whole makes sense.

FF43

DavidBrackenbury said:

Forth, like the bridge!!

The Third Forth Bridge will open in September.

SquareRoot

Since we cannot trust the polls, how can we deduce anything from them.??

RobD

FF43 said:

DavidBrackenbury said:

Forth, like the bridge!!

The Third Forth Bridge will open in September.

Any news on when the fourth is due?

Scott_P

FF43 said:

DavidBrackenbury said:

Forth, like the bridge!!

The Third Forth Bridge will open in September.

There are already three

Charles

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

The_Apocalypse

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

and @ThreeQuidder The point still stands though.

The controversy surrounding the public sector pay cap is more than that single question in PMQs - given that it was an issue during the GE campaign. This a wider issue related to people's growing sense of fatigue in regard to austerity, more than anything else. Remember TMay and that nurse on QT? Back then she looked as bad as the neoliberal posh boys you spent the election deriding. She told that nurse that there was no magic money tree - that was the justification she gave for keeping the public sector pay cap, not 'well we have more doctors and nurses now so....' Given that we don't have a magic money tree, many will ask the question how has May found one in order to give a billion quid to give to NI?

Jonathan

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Unreal in what way? The world seems pretty real.

Charles

Jonathan said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Unreal in what way? The world seems pretty real.

Asset valuations, for one.

The whole thing is propped up on cheap money and QE.

Casino_Royale

MikeL said:

Per BBC:

"Many students boasted on social media of having voted twice in last month's general election, an MP has claimed.

Conservative Sir Henry Bellingham said there was "clear evidence" of students saying they voted at their home and university addresses.

"Surely this is straightforward electoral fraud," he said.

Cabinet Office Minister Chris Skidmore promised to raise the "completely unacceptable" allegation with the Electoral Commission."

With postal votes available on demand, surely there is no strong reason for allowing people to register in two different locations.

So should the Government now change the law so this is no longer allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40509178

That might have cost the Tories Canterbury.

rkrkrk

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

SquareRoot

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

and @ThreeQuidder The point still stands though.

The controversy surrounding the public sector pay cap is more than that single question in PMQs - given that it was an issue during the GE campaign. This a wider issue related to people's growing sense of fatigue in regard to austerity, more than anything else. Remember TMay and that nurse on QT? Back then she looked as bad as the neoliberal posh boys you spent the election deriding. She told that nurse that there was no magic money - that was the justification she gave for keeping the public sector pay cap, not 'well we have more doctors and nurses now so....' Given that we don't have a magic money tree, many will ask the question how has May found one in order to give a billion quid to give to NI?

How much do you think it would cost to give the public sector, say, a 3% pay rise

2bn 6bn 10bn or 20 bn? I am guessing at 6-10 billion.
I billion for the majority was small change.

FrancisUrquhart

Charles said:

Jonathan said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Unreal in what way? The world seems pretty real.

Asset valuations, for one.

The whole thing is propped up on cheap money and QE.

You only have to look at lots of the "hot" tech valuations. They are just absolutely bonkers for companies which don't make any money, don't appear to have any real idea how to make any (and whose goal appears to be hope that Google or Apple buys us) and with little in the way of tech that can't be replicated.

ThreeQuidder

Casino_Royale said:

MikeL said:

Per BBC:

"Many students boasted on social media of having voted twice in last month's general election, an MP has claimed.

Conservative Sir Henry Bellingham said there was "clear evidence" of students saying they voted at their home and university addresses.

"Surely this is straightforward electoral fraud," he said.

Cabinet Office Minister Chris Skidmore promised to raise the "completely unacceptable" allegation with the Electoral Commission."

With postal votes available on demand, surely there is no strong reason for allowing people to register in two different locations.

So should the Government now change the law so this is no longer allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40509178

That might have cost the Tories Canterbury.

I strongly suspect it was a smaller factor than Brazier reneging on his promise not to stand again.

The_Apocalypse

SquareRoot said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

and @ThreeQuidder The point still stands though.

The controversy surrounding the public sector pay cap is more than that single question in PMQs - given that it was an issue during the GE campaign. This a wider issue related to people's growing sense of fatigue in regard to austerity, more than anything else. Remember TMay and that nurse on QT? Back then she looked as bad as the neoliberal posh boys you spent the election deriding. She told that nurse that there was no magic money - that was the justification she gave for keeping the public sector pay cap, not 'well we have more doctors and nurses now so....' Given that we don't have a magic money tree, many will ask the question how has May found one in order to give a billion quid to give to NI?

How much do you think it would cost to give the public sector, say, a 3% pay rise

2bn 6bn 10bn or 20 bn? I am guessing at 6-10 billion.
I billion for the majority was small change.

My argument is that it looks bad for the Tories and that May's argument does not effectively counter Labour's. That was my point in the previous thread and I repeated again in this one.

Charles

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

FrancisUrquhart

I have always said at some point interest rates have to return to historic levels of 4-5%. When that happens whoever is holding the hot potato of government is going to have one hell of a time trying to calm the shit storm of all those who have never known anything other than 1% rates and have mortgaged accordingly.

HYUFD

The_Apocalypse said:

SquareRoot said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

and @ThreeQuidder The point still stands though.

The controversy surrounding the public sector pay cap is more than that single question in PMQs - given that it was an issue during the GE campaign. This a wider issue related to people's growing sense of fatigue in regard to austerity, more than anything else. Remember TMay and that nurse on QT? Back then she looked as bad as the neoliberal posh boys you spent the election deriding. She told that nurse that there was no magic money - that was the justification she gave for keeping the public sector pay cap, not 'well we have more doctors and nurses now so....' Given that we don't have a magic money tree, many will ask the question how has May found one in order to give a billion quid to give to NI?

How much do you think it would cost to give the public sector, say, a 3% pay rise

2bn 6bn 10bn or 20 bn? I am guessing at 6-10 billion.
I billion for the majority was small change.

My argument is that it looks bad for the Tories and that May's argument does not effectively counter Labour's. That was my point in the previous thread and I repeated again in this one.

Hence Boris is leading the Tory charge to end the public sector pay cap

Ishmael_Z

Charles said:

Jonathan said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Unreal in what way? The world seems pretty real.

Asset valuations, for one.

The whole thing is propped up on cheap money and QE.

You have to love the BofE for slashing rates to 0.000025% or whatever it is atm and then harrumphing fiercely about the fact that consumer debt is getting out of hand.

HYUFD

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

JennyFreeman said:

You write off this lady at your peril:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/05/mays-defiant-defence-austerity/

Here's a scenario:

The Corbyn lustre fades gradually. Brexit goes through and the UK economy begins to bounce. The deficit is dealt with (if not removed) and, most importantly of all, the May camp learn from the awful mistakes of this last election campaign.

Worth betting on a Conservative victory in 2022?

Better than evens on Tories getting most seats would be the bet I'd go for.
Doubt May will be leader though in 2022.

As an aside - I doubt the economy will bounce from Brexit. The short term risk is downside.
A transitional deal would avoid that but it won't cause a bounce.

Just came from a really really downbeat economic briefing...

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

I thought we already found that out in 2008?

rkrkrk

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

HYUFD

Trump has spoken 'with Italy' ttps://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881839523126272000

Casino_Royale

ThreeQuidder said:

Casino_Royale said:

MikeL said:

Per BBC:

"Many students boasted on social media of having voted twice in last month's general election, an MP has claimed.

Conservative Sir Henry Bellingham said there was "clear evidence" of students saying they voted at their home and university addresses.

"Surely this is straightforward electoral fraud," he said.

Cabinet Office Minister Chris Skidmore promised to raise the "completely unacceptable" allegation with the Electoral Commission."

With postal votes available on demand, surely there is no strong reason for allowing people to register in two different locations.

So should the Government now change the law so this is no longer allowed?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40509178

That might have cost the Tories Canterbury.

I strongly suspect it was a smaller factor than Brazier reneging on his promise not to stand again.

Not for 30 votes.

Casino_Royale

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

Ishmael_Z

HYUFD said:

Trump has spoken 'with Italy' ttps://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881839523126272000

Robert Winston this morning: "However, he said "interferences from the Vatican and from Donald Trump" were "extremely unhelpful and very cruel"." He was right.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Scott_P

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

Does that mean his Corbynista girlfriend dumped him?

AlastairMeeks

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

I give that two weeks tops.

HYUFD

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

So that just leaves his latest travels, his latest bestseller, his latest romantic liaison with a young Corbynista, Primrose Hill house prices, sport, his latest restaurant critique.....

not_on_fire

Scott_P said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

Does that mean his Corbynista girlfriend dumped him?

Maybe he went on a "cuts give me the HORN" rant

Charles

FrancisUrquhart said:

I have always said at some point interest rates have to return to historic levels of 4-5%. When that happens whoever is holding the hot potato of government is going to have one hell of a time trying to calm the shit storm of all those who have never known anything other than 1% rates and have mortgaged accordingly.

Just saw Paul Volcker (my all time fav Fed Chairman)'s analogy:

QE is like being in a plane that has never been flown before, with an unqualified pilot at the controls.

They've got it off the ground, and are flying it ok.

But landing the hardest part...and they don't even know where the airport is...

The_Apocalypse

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

AnneJGP

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

Charles

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

It's the Bank of England buying the government debt, not new investors...

Casino_Royale

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

I give that two weeks tops.

You can't escape pb.

The_Apocalypse

SeanT probably is still shocked by that exit poll

David_Evershed

FrancisUrquhart said:

I have always said at some point interest rates have to return to historic levels of 4-5%. When that happens whoever is holding the hot potato of government is going to have one hell of a time trying to calm the shit storm of all those who have never known anything other than 1% rates and have mortgaged accordingly.

A rule of thumb is for bank rate to be 3% above inflation and the inflation target is 2%. So Bank Rate of 5%.

In turn this means mortgage rates of 7/8% depending on the fixed term.

However, the B of E will use capital controls to keep borrowing down rather than raising bank rate for the next few years until Brexit is out of the way. So expect Gilt prices and equity prices to stay high in the meantime because expectations for interest rates will remain low.

HYUFD

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

I give that two weeks tops.

'Guess this is what normal people feel like. Who is the Home Secretary? What is a Shadow Cabinet? Why should I care? Brilliant'
https://mobile.twitter.com/thomasknox/status/882648557718835201

AnneJGP

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

It's the Bank of England buying the government debt, not new investors...

So it really is a magic money tree?

glw

Ishmael_Z said:

You have to love the BofE for slashing rates to 0.000025% or whatever it is atm and then harrumphing fiercely about the fact that consumer debt is getting out of hand.

We have had years of "Borrow borrow borrow keep the economy afloat!" What the hell did they think would happen?

Beverley_C

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

JosiasJessop

Didn't some people on here go crazy about the potential of China's car-straddling bus?

Oh dear:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/07/china-elevated-bus-scam/

Despite this, it was a more sensible transport idea than the human-jam making Hyperloop.

Wulfrun_Phil

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

There is a big difference between answering to the 5% of Labour members who attend CLP meetings and the minority of those who vote for organised slates of candidates in order to dominate them and the 50% who would attend a meeting in the event of a bid to deselect an MP. She shouldn't be unduly worried.

Anyway, given that ISIS are now on their last legs thanks to the support the UK and others are giving to their opponents, who is it that should really be making apologies for that Syria vote?

JosiasJessop

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

HYUFD

Beverley_C said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

The quicker the showtrials begin, the sooner Chuka Umunna can start an En Marche style breakaway party

FrancisUrquhart

JosiasJessop said:

Didn't some people on here go crazy about the potential of China's car-straddling bus?

Oh dear:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/07/china-elevated-bus-scam/

Despite this, it was a more sensible transport idea than the human-jam making Hyperloop.

Its classic China. The government demand a solution, people put together something quickly and it is then found to not really work as required and it is binned, and they move onto something else.

"When the TEB turned a corner, every vehicle underneath had to wait for the manoeuvre to complete before going around the corner themselves. And no one had really worked out how to solve the issue of cars driving into the "legs" of the bus."

Can you imagine Elon Musk putting up with something like that?

Beverley_C

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

The quicker the showtrials begin, the sooner Chuka Umunna can start an En Marche style breakaway party

Chuka Umunna will be in deep, deep trouble under Comrade Corbyn. Have you not seen Mr Umunna's standard "cut"? He may get sent to work on state farms in the desolation of Lincolnshire.

Wulfrun_Phil

SquareRoot said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

For a start, not the DUP, but NI, but more significantly, it undermined the premise of the question, which was about people leaving professions like Teaching because the pay was 'low'*. By showing the figures were wrong she took out the foundation of the question...

*All teachers my age have earned more than me for all but 3 years of the last 10.

and @ThreeQuidder The point still stands though.

The controversy surrounding the public sector pay cap is more than that single question in PMQs - given that it was an issue during the GE campaign. This a wider issue related to people's growing sense of fatigue in regard to austerity, more than anything else. Remember TMay and that nurse on QT? Back then she looked as bad as the neoliberal posh boys you spent the election deriding. She told that nurse that there was no magic money - that was the justification she gave for keeping the public sector pay cap, not 'well we have more doctors and nurses now so....' Given that we don't have a magic money tree, many will ask the question how has May found one in order to give a billion quid to give to NI?

How much do you think it would cost to give the public sector, say, a 3% pay rise

2bn 6bn 10bn or 20 bn? I am guessing at 6-10 billion.
I billion for the majority was small change.

A better way of phrasing that would be "How much do you think it would cost not to cut public sector pay by, say, another 2% next year? And by 2% the year after that. And by..... " (repeat ad nauseum).

The cap is 1%, while the CPI is currently at 2.9% and rising. A difference of 1.9%. The RPI (which the Government conveniently never mentions now) is even higher.

HYUFD

Beverley_C said:

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

The quicker the showtrials begin, the sooner Chuka Umunna can start an En Marche style breakaway party

Chuka Umunna will be in deep, deep trouble under Comrade Corbyn. Have you not seen Mr Umunna's standard "cut"? He may get sent to work on state farms in the desolation of Lincolnshire.

Not a nightclub, top class restaurant or Armani store in sight. Hell!

Beverley_C

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

The quicker the showtrials begin, the sooner Chuka Umunna can start an En Marche style breakaway party

Chuka Umunna will be in deep, deep trouble under Comrade Corbyn. Have you not seen Mr Umunna's standard "cut"? He may get sent to work on state farms in the desolation of Lincolnshire.

Not a nightclub, top class restaurant or Armani store in sight. Hell!

He could be surrounded by cabbages. They have lots of them in Lincolnshire. Different from the Westminster variety though ....

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/882629874397138945

DecrepitJohnL

JosiasJessop said:

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

Why do we bother paying MI5 to protect us from spies when the powers that be just hand over any data requested?

Beverley_C

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

Why do we bother paying MI5 to protect us from spies when the powers that be just hand over any data requested?

The same argument could be made about Android phones, iPhones, hotmail and gmail. As for Facebook's Apps....

JosiasJessop

FrancisUrquhart said:

JosiasJessop said:

Didn't some people on here go crazy about the potential of China's car-straddling bus?

Oh dear:
https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/07/china-elevated-bus-scam/

Despite this, it was a more sensible transport idea than the human-jam making Hyperloop.

Its classic China. The government demand a solution, people put together something quickly and it is then found to not really work as required and it is binned, and they move onto something else.

"When the TEB turned a corner, every vehicle underneath had to wait for the manoeuvre to complete before going around the corner themselves. And no one had really worked out how to solve the issue of cars driving into the "legs" of the bus."

Can you imagine Elon Musk putting up with something like that?

To be fair, Musk's solution is even more ridiculous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI

AndyJS

"Worst decade for UK productivity since Napoleon

Not since the times of George III, Napoleon and war with America has the UK suffered such a long period of low productivity."

http://news.sky.com/story/worst-decade-for-uk-productivity-since-napolean-10938330

HYUFD

Beverley_C said:

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

HYUFD said:

Beverley_C said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/882679402630447104

Well....

The show trials have begun! Corbyn for Supreme Leader!!!

(and all the men have to get a haircut identical to Comrade Corbyn Je-Remey)

The quicker the showtrials begin, the sooner Chuka Umunna can start an En Marche style breakaway party

Chuka Umunna will be in deep, deep trouble under Comrade Corbyn. Have you not seen Mr Umunna's standard "cut"? He may get sent to work on state farms in the desolation of Lincolnshire.

Not a nightclub, top class restaurant or Armani store in sight. Hell!

He could be surrounded by cabbages. They have lots of them in Lincolnshire. Different from the Westminster variety though ....

Cabbages and Leave voters, what a combination

Beverley_C

Scott_P said:

twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/882629874397138945

That is the first good piece of Brexit news I have seen in some time.

Beverley_C

JosiasJessop said:

To be fair, Musk's solution is even more ridiculous:
https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI

It reminds me of a Dr Who episode where everyone is underground in their cars on some sort of road. Maybe Mr Musk is a fan of the Dr?

Charles

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

It's the Bank of England buying the government debt, not new investors...

So it really is a magic money tree?

Really they're just printing money, but if you call it something like "Quantitative Easing" or "QE" no one will notice.

Sunil_Prasannan

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

A) The money is for Northern Ireland, NOT the DUP
b) The Northern Irish are UK taxpayers
C) £1 billion over two years is a bargain compared to the £8.5 billion NET we give to Brussels each year

Beverley_C

AndyJS said:

"Worst decade for UK productivity since Napoleon

Not since the times of George III, Napoleon and war with America has the UK suffered such a long period of low productivity."

http://news.sky.com/story/worst-decade-for-uk-productivity-since-napolean-10938330

It just convinces me further that the recession has started its early phases.

RoyalBlue

When the Fed starts unwinding QE and the ECB stops printing money the effective supply
of government bonds will significantly increase.

I wonder what will happen to asset prices generally

AnneJGP

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

It's the Bank of England buying the government debt, not new investors...

So it really is a magic money tree?

Really they're just printing money, but if you call it something like "Quantitative Easing" or "QE" no one will notice.

So your original gloomy scenario is because of what will happen when the music stops, so to speak? There has to be a payback time somewhere along the line and whatever the underlying cause, it's that which concerns me.

DecrepitJohnL

Beverley_C said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

Why do we bother paying MI5 to protect us from spies when the powers that be just hand over any data requested?

The same argument could be made about Android phones, iPhones, hotmail and gmail. As for Facebook's Apps....

Yes it could and I have made it. And people are bugging their own homes with voice-activated assistants. But the government, or the Establishment if you like because both parties are at it, is on another scale.

Charles

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

AnneJGP said:

Charles said:

rkrkrk said:

Charles said:

FPT

rkrkrk said:

Do you share their assessment?

I feel gloomy about UK economy.
Rising inflation, mediocre growth, Brexit challenges and uncertainty, and rates as low as they can go and a potential rise looming...

I try not to sweat the small stuff.

The issue is the entire western economy (but particularly the Anglo-Saxon ones) is an unreal fantasy propped up on cheap money.

At some point governments may try to end that & it's all going to go horribly wrong.

There's a humungous crash coming. I just don't know when

Well that's uplifting!

I did warn you!

I can well understand that people are "tired of austerity", but it worries me that we're dependent on other countries lending us money to live at the standard we believe is our right.

Suppose the lenders pulled the plug?

Good evening, everyone.

It's the Bank of England buying the government debt, not new investors...

So it really is a magic money tree?

Really they're just printing money, but if you call it something like "Quantitative Easing" or "QE" no one will notice.

So your original gloomy scenario is because of what will happen when the music stops, so to speak? There has to be a payback time somewhere along the line and whatever the underlying cause, it's that which concerns me.

And me. They are going to try to withdraw the stimulus gently (to avoid the "taper tantrum" we saw in 2015). But if they don't do it quickly enough when the next cyclical downturn comes they won't have any firepower left.

Sunil_Prasannan

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Meat is Murder!

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/882697558216376325

Beverley_C

DecrepitJohnL said:

Beverley_C said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

Why do we bother paying MI5 to protect us from spies when the powers that be just hand over any data requested?

The same argument could be made about Android phones, iPhones, hotmail and gmail. As for Facebook's Apps....

Yes it could and I have made it. And people are bugging their own homes with voice-activated assistants. But the government, or the Establishment if you like because both parties are at it, is on another scale.

Yes. Some of my friends have that Alexa thing. Have we really got so lazy that we cannot turn a light manually? No wonder productivity is on a slide.

RoyalBlue

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

Charles

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/882697558216376325

So the illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay permanently, according to the i?

Sean_F

AndyJS said:

"Worst decade for UK productivity since Napoleon

Not since the times of George III, Napoleon and war with America has the UK suffered such a long period of low productivity."

http://news.sky.com/story/worst-decade-for-uk-productivity-since-napolean-10938330

The plus side of that is massive job creation.

If unemployment doubled, productivity would surge.

The_Apocalypse

@Sunil_Prasannan
(a. Has already been addressed - see my previous post
(b. So are public sector workers
(c. WTH does that have to do with the austerity debate?

foxinsoxuk

RoyalBlue said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

c'mon! This is a website where people discuss demographic weighting of polls in great detail Cooking is less boring to nearly all the great British public!

FF43

Beverley_C said:

Scott_P said:

twitter.com/kadhimshubber/status/882629874397138945

That is the first good piece of Brexit news I have seen in some time.

Yup. No straw unclutched ...

Sean_F

RoyalBlue said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

I don't care how others do them. But a rare steak, or one that's briefly seared in a pan, is wonderful.

NickPalmer

RoyalBlue said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

I'm in your corner. Food snobs. Wine snobs. Music snobs. All "my taste is better than your taste". Pshaw. To each his own.

Sunil_Prasannan

Beverley_C said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Beverley_C said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

Wholly unsurprising:

"Google's DeepMind AI arm—which was given access to the personal medical records of 1.6 million NHS patients on an "inappropriate legal basis"—has thrown the Royal Free NHS Foundation Trust into hot water, after the UK's Information Commissioner's Office confirmed on Monday that the hospital had breached data law."

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/07/google-deepmind-nhs-deal-broke-uk-data-law/

Why do we bother paying MI5 to protect us from spies when the powers that be just hand over any data requested?

The same argument could be made about Android phones, iPhones, hotmail and gmail. As for Facebook's Apps....

Yes it could and I have made it. And people are bugging their own homes with voice-activated assistants. But the government, or the Establishment if you like because both parties are at it, is on another scale.

Yes. Some of my friends have that Alexa thing. Have we really got so lazy that we cannot turn a light manually? No wonder productivity is on a slide.

Alexa? We should call it "Bev"

foxinsoxuk

AndyJS said:

"Worst decade for UK productivity since Napoleon

Not since the times of George III, Napoleon and war with America has the UK suffered such a long period of low productivity."

http://news.sky.com/story/worst-decade-for-uk-productivity-since-napolean-10938330

Surely late Georgian Britain was a time of great increases in productivity as the industrial revolution gathered speed?

NickPalmer

Sunil_Prasannan said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Mortimer How does that counter the assertion that she has a billion quid to give to the DUP but no money for public sector workers? This looks bad for the Tories.

A) The money is for Northern Ireland, NOT the DUP
b) The Northern Irish are UK taxpayers
C) £1 billion over two years is a bargain compared to the £8.5 billion NET we give to Brussels each year

The DUP got a useful bung too, apparently, from one of those groups who also fund some Tories. Not to mention the special Arlene One RAF flight.

Charles

NickPalmer said:

RoyalBlue said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

I'm in your corner. Food snobs. Wine snobs. Music snobs. All "my taste is better than your taste". Pshaw. To each his own.

Nick have you ever come across Muddy Fork before?

North Nottinghamshire CIC using gardening to combat mental health issues. We're funding them to pilot a new push into GPs/teachers/prisoners but wanted to flag them up to you

surbiton

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

So that just leaves his latest travels, his latest bestseller, his latest romantic liaison with a young Corbynista, Primrose Hill house prices, sport, his latest restaurant critique.....

Plonk ?

surbiton

Sunil_Prasannan said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Meat is Murder!

Stop farting !

surbiton

RoyalBlue said:

When the Fed starts unwinding QE and the ECB stops printing money the effective supply
of government bonds will significantly increase.

I wonder what will happen to asset prices generally

It can go only one way.

surbiton

Beverley_C said:

AndyJS said:

"Worst decade for UK productivity since Napoleon

Not since the times of George III, Napoleon and war with America has the UK suffered such a long period of low productivity."

http://news.sky.com/story/worst-decade-for-uk-productivity-since-napolean-10938330

It just convinces me further that the recession has started its early phases.

Agreed. In terms of quarters, probably started 5 days ago.

HYUFD

surbiton said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT going a bit John Lennon over on Twitter.

Says he's totally done with politics, and talking about it.

So that just leaves his latest travels, his latest bestseller, his latest romantic liaison with a young Corbynista, Primrose Hill house prices, sport, his latest restaurant critique.....

Plonk ?

Yes, that too. Plenty of topics are discussed here even if politics is the focus

rottenborough

Charles said:

NickPalmer said:

RoyalBlue said:

rkrkrk said:

On topic... Ordering a steak medium well done or well done is just terrible. A crime against flavour and meat.

Is there a worse kind of bore than one who cares how long other people like their steaks cooked?

I'm in your corner. Food snobs. Wine snobs. Music snobs. All "my taste is better than your taste". Pshaw. To each his own.

Nick have you ever come across Muddy Fork before?

North Nottinghamshire CIC using gardening to combat mental health issues. We're funding them to pilot a new push into GPs/teachers/prisoners but wanted to flag them up to you

Do you have a link to your website or details?

Scott_P

NickPalmer said:

Music snobs.

*cough*Radiohead*cough*