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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This makes me glad I’m laying Boris in the race to be next Tor

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229
    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Andrew Bonar Law was born in Canada but moved to Scotland aged 12
    Arthur Balfour was a scot
    Prior to that the last English northerner PM from the Tories was Lord Derby
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    PClipp said:

    The european parliament is exactly what UK voters wanted, it does not interfere in domestic affairs. but at an international level has done great work on human rights, environmental protection and international development. looks pretty credible to me.

    Actually what UK voters wanted was to not be a part of it.
    What they wanted was more money for the NHS.
    Where on earth does the idea that the european parliament was/is what UK voters want come from?

    The turn-outs for MEPs elections were always poor.

    And I speak as a die-hard Remainer.
    Absolutely correct.

    I was one of those campaigning to leave the EU long before immigration was a major issue and certainly before spurious claims about the NHS were bandied about.

    "human rights, environmental protection and international development" are way down the list of the electorate's priorities.
    I doubt the vast majority of voters could even tell you that these were the sorts of things EU were good at.

    More likely they thought it all a waste of time and just another hothouse full of over-paid stuffed shirts. Over the years there has been an appalling failure to explain what the EU does and its benefits.

    Mobile roaming charges anyone?
    Yep, in the unlikely event of a second referendum people will need to make a POSITIVE case to join.

    Good luck with that
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533

    Andrew Bonar Law was born in Canada but moved to Scotland aged 12
    Arthur Balfour was a scot
    Prior to that the last English northerner PM from the Tories was Lord Derby

    Thanks. Interesting. Lord Derby is the longest serving Tory leader according to wikipedia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    If Davis becomes PM - then, when was there last a Northern-born and bred Tory PM?

    Edit: And no, I don't consider Grantham is the North.
    Anthony Eden was a county Durham lad. Went to Eton though!
    Thanks. Looks like he is the last one so far.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Miss Vance, that's possible. It's also possible that Starmer is knowingly full of shit.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited July 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    If Davis becomes PM - then, when was there last a Northern-born and bred Tory PM?

    Edit: And no, I don't consider Grantham is the North.
    Anthony Eden was a county Durham lad. Went to Eton though!
    Thanks. Looks like he is the last one so far.
    Northern English PMs since the great reform act appear to be Robert Peel, Lord Derby and Eden
    Balfour and Bonar Law Scots
    Wellesley Irish
    The rest are midlanders or southerners.

    Bonar Law is the only PM to be born outside the British Isles - until the rise of Boris? Boris would be the only PM born outside the Commonwealth.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Spurs season ticket secured = no home wins next season!

    Conservative membership renewed = no to Boris / Leadsom / Fox in any tory leader election!

    Vote Crouch.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    Well Starmer, like Blair, read a law based degree at Oxford, the stunning lack of legal knowledge is no surprise.

    Blair didn't realise you needed primary legislation to abolish the role of Lord Chancellor.

    Seriously what do they teach at Cowley Tech?

    If I were a student there, I'd want a refund.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    If Davis becomes PM - then, when was there last a Northern-born and bred Tory PM?

    Edit: And no, I don't consider Grantham is the North.
    Anthony Eden was a county Durham lad. Went to Eton though!
    Thanks. Looks like he is the last one so far.
    Northern English PMs since the great reform act appear to be Robert Peel, Lord Derby and Eden
    Balfour and Bonar Law Scots
    Wellesley Irish
    The rest are midlanders or southerners.

    Bonar Law is the only PM to be born outside the British Isles - until the rise of Boris? Boris would be the only PM born outside the Commonwealth.
    I may be misreading what you are saying but wasn't Brown a Scot as well?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Scott_P said:
    Sounds fair. Who's leaking this to the Times, btw? Clearly not Leadsom. Number Ten? Or perhaps a former Times journalist who has taken over at Defra and who is sticking the knife into Leadsom who so easily beat him last year?
    If it is accurately reported then it shows why Mrs Leadsom would be a poor candidate for PM - she appears to feel that she has an almost socialist entitlement for power and glory.

    As for the other candidates on the ConHome list, they may be popular with ConHome but some of them like Gove are utterly toxic in the country. Amber Rudd might have some traction with voters but Anna Soubry might do better.

    I am surprised that Jacob Rees-Mogg is not on the list. I regard him as an ass but many Tories seem to think he is some sort of political genius.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    FPT. Me on Surbiton's obviously sarcastic attempt to portray the BBC as pro Conservative when it comes to selecting their next Head of Communications. A post that is now desperately in need of being filled.
    ''Yet more proof that the BBC is not the answer! May needs a very tough, thick skinned, politically astute and media savvy head of Communications 'who gets the PCP, the wider Conservative membership and knows how to attract that wider centre ground of voters on both sides of Brexit'...

    I don't know how much the Evening Standard is paying George Osborne? But if the Conservative Party's natural survival and election winning instincts are still in place, then they need to dig deep to find a salary package that matches his Evening salary to tempt him away...

    The fact that Theresa May would have to eat humble pie after her sacking of George Osborne is a given, and it also means that George might also be placed in a powerful position that might help him decide who her successor is before the next GE. What is not to like?"
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Interesting thread on with lots of tidbits in there. Activist base melting away is the big red flag, 20 leafleters down to 5 for example. Big drop in SNP membership incoming?

    https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/882178303322464257
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    If Davis becomes PM - then, when was there last a Northern-born and bred Tory PM?

    Edit: And no, I don't consider Grantham is the North.
    Anthony Eden was a county Durham lad. Went to Eton though!
    Thanks. Looks like he is the last one so far.
    Northern English PMs since the great reform act appear to be Robert Peel, Lord Derby and Eden
    Balfour and Bonar Law Scots
    Wellesley Irish
    The rest are midlanders or southerners.

    Bonar Law is the only PM to be born outside the British Isles - until the rise of Boris? Boris would be the only PM born outside the Commonwealth.
    I may be misreading what you are saying but wasn't Brown a Scot as well?
    Sorry yeah we are talking Tories :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229
    edited July 2017

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    Seriously what do they teach at Cowley Tech?

    If I were a student there, I'd want a refund.
    At least they named a comma after us.......and Starmer's undergraduate degree was from Leeds.....surprising he can write, really....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Alistair said:

    Interesting thread on with lots of tidbits in there. Activist base melting away is the big red flag, 20 leafleters down to 5 for example. Big drop in SNP membership incoming?

    https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/882178303322464257

    Not that I doubt you, but do you have a source/link for that.

    Might make for a decent thread.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    No, she came to politics only a few years ago after leaving the BBC, was second on the Glasgow list in 2011 but was promoted to first at the last minute when number 1 was kicked out of the Conservatives
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    What you have to know about Starmer is not that he's a fool, because he isn't. He's leaned that the truth takes an age to get its boots on, so he know that lying will have the effect necessary
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    DavidL said:

    Interesting story on the BBC no less: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40496569

    Take it with a pinch of salt. It reads like Don Brind at his most excitable.

    http://www.londonandpartners.com/

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Davis leads our survey – but is outscored by “none of the above”

    No appetite for urgent change....

    Also....

    there was no big write-in for Ruth Davidson, a development we were keeping an eye open for.
    Davidson is no longer an MP but Davis will almost certainly be Tory leader while Brexit talks are ongoing if May departs early but Boris is a strong contender if those are finished and winning the next general election is key
    Was she ever an MP?
    If Davis becomes PM - then, when was there last a Northern-born and bred Tory PM?

    Edit: And no, I don't consider Grantham is the North.
    Don't think Davis was northern bred - Brought up in Tooting according to Wikipedia
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Does this table tell us much more than the make-up of the readership of Conservative Home? It always was dominated by the wilder-eyed Leavers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    Seriously what do they teach at Cowley Tech?

    If I were a student there, I'd want a refund.
    At least they named a comma after us.......and Starmer's undergraduate degree was from Leeds.....surprising he can write, really....
    Indeed, he went to a grammar school after all, and those places produces people who can't differentiate between stats and personal experiences.
  • JetJet Posts: 11
    The "Pegida-style momentum" in UKIP spearheaded by Anne Marie Waters is interesting. The background is the general election and the Tory failure. Aspects of that failure were three main Tory assumptions:

    1) votes that had flowed from Labour to UKIP would flow on to the Tories;

    2) demonisation of Jeremy Corbyn would work;

    3) with the Labour party and UKIP both in such a supposed mess, described by Tory scribblers as terminal (which may or may not be true for UKIP - see below - but isn't for Labour), the Tories would be viewed as the party of competence and safe hands capable of providing a government that would be oh so skilled at steering Brexit.

    We know these all turned out to be false. Most people couldn't give a toss about either support for Irish republicanism among bits of the far left in the 1980s or Brexit, compared to issues such as the protection of elderly people, support for students, and housing security. They watch a Tory prime minister tell nurses there's no magic money tree and they are not convinced. The message "We're so good at Brexit, so please help us out" was laughable.

    There's only one thing for the Brexit Tories to do: ramp up xenophobia.

    But they don't want to split their own party more than it's divided already, especially when it's in government and it hasn't got a majority. They're not that stupid. What we're likely to get is

    * either a revamped UKIP under Waters

    * or a Pegida-style movement that has its roots in the Waters leadership campaign but then goes outside the party.

    Tommy Robinson, or Stephen Yaxley-Lennon to call him by his former name, has been mentioned. Convicted and jailed for mortgage fraud, he was head of the EDL, which comes out of a football gang network (which, just by the by, has connections with Ulster loyalists). He then worked with the Muslim think tank Quilliam, and he is strongly pro-Israel. Now he's involved with Canada-based Rebel Media, founded by Ezra Isaac Levant, the alt-right figure who is pals with Ann Coulter and Pamela Geller. Rebel Media does things like publish inflammatory cartoons of the prophet Mohammed.

    Tommy gets about, doesn't he? We haven't heard the last of him.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    fitalass said:

    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    I can't see how Ruth can get to FM - if there is an SNP collapse it is more likely to be Slab that benefits the most. Potentially the SLD could support Ruth but Slab wouldn't - it would immediately give ammo to the SNP to take back support again from Slab - too risky. Conversely, there is much less risk involved for the Scon's to prop up Slab. So if the SNP are kicked out next time it is much more likely to be a Slab government supported by Scon than the other way round.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited July 2017
    Dadge said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
    .
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Dadge said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
    So who is the attack mastermind?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,247

    To my English eyes Davidson seems much more a Unionist than a Conservative.

    I think that's right. But she's also sound on defence, and a fiscal conservative, which tips her into the Tory camp rather than, say, the LDs who she'd probably view as slightly pathetic.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited July 2017

    Does this table tell us much more than the make-up of the readership of Conservative Home? It always was dominated by the wilder-eyed Leavers.

    Good point. I used to be a regular poster and participant in the Conservative Home polls in the early years of the site, but long before they allowed the UKIP fan base to take over and dominant the ever more moderated comment threads. I have not visited Conservative Home or participated in any discussions or polls there since before Lord Ashcroft became involved despite remaining an active member of the Conservative party....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr/Miss Jet, welcome to pb.com (Jet was the best gladiator/gladiatrix, incidentally).

    This is something of which we should be wary. Right now the country has more arrests for bacon hate crime than FGM. The main party of the left is led by a self-declared friend of Hamas, the main party of the right is in disarray. If mainstream politics doesn't address serious concerns about Islamic extremism, then I fear there is a credible possibility of the far right (in a political sense) gaining substantial ground.

    *sighs*
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited July 2017
    Dadge said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
    A little rejigging needed?

    The sister of London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt has been SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over "security fears."
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    Seriously what do they teach at Cowley Tech?

    If I were a student there, I'd want a refund.
    At least they named a comma after us.......and Starmer's undergraduate degree was from Leeds.....surprising he can write, really....
    Indeed, he went to a grammar school
    Typical Labour, 'do as I say, not as I do'...pulling up the ladder after him.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    edited July 2017

    Dadge said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
    A little rejigging needed?

    The sister of London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt has been SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over "security fears."
    was what I was thinking...

    :smile:
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Ruth Davidson cannot be the saviour of the tory party now. She can be the star who brings the tories revitalised and reinvented back into government, but you can't reinvent yourselves while in government. Associating Ruth as PM with all the 7+ years of building tory toxicity (austerity, brexit etc) will simply tarnish her. Far better to let her take over for the rebuilding, not make her the captain trying to plug leaks in the ship.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,247
    DavidL said:

    Whilst having suspicions about its voodoo nature this poll shows once again what the Tories like is a winner. Being a winner is far more important than being a Leaver or a Remainer, a wet or a dry, a hard or soft Brexiteer, straight or gay, socially liberal or conservative.

    Which is fair enough. The Tory party's historic roll is to provide this country with as competent government as the political class are capable of in a pragmatic kind of way adopting slowly to the ethos of the times. It is really when the Tories start getting ideological either about the economy or the EU that they run into problems. There is enough of that sort of nonsense in the Labour party for when the country thinks a change is required.

    The problem the Tories have at the moment, and it is indeed a serious one, is that there are very few, if any, perceived winners in Westminster. Hence Ruth's popularity. Boris used to have that reputation because he twice won "Labour" London and he also won the Leave vote but at the moment the sheen is off. But if another perceived winner in Westminster does not emerge his star will rise again.

    Yes. Debates on here can be uninsightful because non-Tories will tend to pick out the most "unTory" Tory, like Soubry, and core Conservatives will pick who they judge to be most sound.

    You need to look for someone who appeals to floating voters and the party, with a bit of star quality. That really is Ruth Davidson, but others like Crouch or Hinds may be able to develop, and even Crabb might be able to come back.

    Hunt would be a possibility but he has to work somewhere else that isn't Health for a couple of years first, and work on detoxification of himself.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited July 2017

    fitalass said:

    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    I can't see how Ruth can get to FM - if there is an SNP collapse it is more likely to be Slab that benefits the most. Potentially the SLD could support Ruth but Slab wouldn't - it would immediately give ammo to the SNP to take back support again from Slab - too risky. Conversely, there is much less risk involved for the Scon's to prop up Slab. So if the SNP are kicked out next time it is much more likely to be a Slab government supported by Scon than the other way round.
    The current voting system at Holyrood is not set up to deliver a majority, but as you may have noticed, the Scottish Conservatives under Ruth Davidson overtook the Scottish Labour party as the main Opposition at Holyrood. They also performed far better than the Scottish Labour party did in the last GE despite the Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn's campaigns. Blame the Scottish Conservative result on the Ruth Davidson! You don't achieve that kind of level of political success without garnering the tactical votes of Scottish Labour voters in much the same way that the SNP used to be able to collect Tory votes..
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Spurs season ticket secured = no home wins next season!

    Conservative membership renewed = no to Boris / Leadsom / Fox in any tory leader election!

    Vote Crouch.

    Tracey or Peter?
  • JetJet Posts: 11
    Jet said:

    Tommy gets about, doesn't he? We haven't heard the last of him.

    Anne Marie seems to get about a lot too. Stood for selection as Labour's PPC in Swindon South in 2011, supported by a member of the Worker-Communist Party of Iran; wrote for the Sweden-based "counter-jihadist" rag Dispatch International; directed Sharia Watch; stood for UKIP; launched Pegida UK with Robinson/Lennon. Watch this space!

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    Listening to the latest on Grenfell the magnitude of the problem is daunting for all those who are trying to provide help, reassurance and guidance as so many are traumatised and, understandably, cannot see beyond their immediate trauma which will last for months, years, and even lifetimes.

    The fact that out of 139 offers of temporary accommodation from the government have resulted in only 9 acceptances of the accommodation says far more about the grief and trauma than it does about the government's action to provide the accommodation.

    I am concerned though that some of the residents demands seem to be from left leaning pressure groups and that some may be perceived as unreasonable to the public at large. The relatives met the police and coroner yesterday and some walked out after a few minutes as they were not getting the information they wanted on the missing and presumed dead, but this has to have more to do with their understandable grief and trauma than it has of consideration to the almost impossible situation facing the police and forensic scientists.

    Furthermore, David Lammy, Diane Abbott and others labour politicians should be ashamed at their attempts to undermine the independently appointed judge who needs to get on with the inquiry. Someone was suggesting that as the judge had not lived in a high rise block he could not make a judgement on this disaster. It is good to see that Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed the judge and full marks to him.

    I do wonder just how long some of these pressure groups will retain the sympathy of the public.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,247

    Does this table tell us much more than the make-up of the readership of Conservative Home? It always was dominated by the wilder-eyed Leavers.

    What's the difference between wilder eyes and swivel eyes?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    I can't see how Ruth can get to FM - if there is an SNP collapse it is more likely to be Slab that benefits the most. Potentially the SLD could support Ruth but Slab wouldn't - it would immediately give ammo to the SNP to take back support again from Slab - too risky. Conversely, there is much less risk involved for the Scon's to prop up Slab. So if the SNP are kicked out next time it is much more likely to be a Slab government supported by Scon than the other way round.
    The current voting system at Holyrood is not set up to deliver a majority, but as you may have noticed, the Scottish Conservatives under Ruth Davidson overtook the Scottish Labour party as the main Opposition at Holyrood. They also performed far better than the Scottish Labour party did in the last GE despite the Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn's campaigns. Blame the Scottish Conservative result on the Ruth Davidson! You don't achieve that kind of level of political success without garnering the tactical votes of Scottish Labour voters in much the same way that the SNP used to be able to collect Tory votes..
    Yabbut there must be a relatively low ceiling on Tory vote share in Scotland which even Ruth Davidson can't push much higher. Even if the Tories became the largest party, which is quite possible, I can't see the Labour or SNP group supporting a Tory-led government or a Davidson FM-ship. It would certainly not be in their interests to do so.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    The electorate didn't have them down as lunatics.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    TOPPING said:

    Dadge said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, team grammar, how do you punctuate this puppy?

    "London Bridge attack mastermind Khuram Butt's sister 'is SACKED from Heathrow after being suspended over security fears' "

    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4665988/Khuram-Butt-s-sister-SACKED-Heathrow.html

    Looks alright to me.
    So who is the attack mastermind?
    Really?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Just come across this so sorry it has been posted previously. I used to like Cameron but his behaviour in the Referendum campaign was appalling, and this is hypocrisy of the highest order:

    http://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-calls-austerity-opponents-selfish-10937029
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    F1: hmm. Still only the winner market up on Ladbrokes.

    As mentioned before, I've put tiny sums on each Force India/Williams driver, each way, to win (odds vary from 201 to 501).

    I think Red Bull may be a little on the back foot, so if something goes wrong at the sharp end, I expect Force India, and maybe Williams, to benefit.

    But, as I said, tiny sums.

    I did have a similar amount on Perez to win each way in Azerbaijan. He really should've. But for that stupid collision, he would've. Was a bit miffed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    Just come across this so sorry it has been posted previously. I used to like Cameron but his behaviour in the Referendum campaign was appalling, and this is hypocrisy of the highest order:

    http://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-calls-austerity-opponents-selfish-10937029

    Astonishing remarks - so out of touch as it is alleged he is paid £120,00 per hour for his speeches - very disappointed in him
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    I can't see how Ruth can get to FM - if there is an SNP collapse it is more likely to be Slab that benefits the most. Potentially the SLD could support Ruth but Slab wouldn't - it would immediately give ammo to the SNP to take back support again from Slab - too risky. Conversely, there is much less risk involved for the Scon's to prop up Slab. So if the SNP are kicked out next time it is much more likely to be a Slab government supported by Scon than the other way round.
    The current voting system at Holyrood is not set up to deliver a majority, but as you may have noticed, the Scottish Conservatives under Ruth Davidson overtook the Scottish Labour party as the main Opposition at Holyrood. They also performed far better than the Scottish Labour party did in the last GE despite the Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn's campaigns. Blame the Scottish Conservative result on the Ruth Davidson! You don't achieve that kind of level of political success without garnering the tactical votes of Scottish Labour voters in much the same way that the SNP used to be able to collect Tory votes..
    Yes but tactical voting will only go so far in Holyrood due to the proportional aspect. So you need the SNP to fall back directly, in order to make any other administration viable. Those SNP voters then have to directly transfer to the unionist parties. Considering the increase in SNP has largely been at the expense of Slab, and considering that Slab no longer looks dead in Scotland even if the Tories performed better, it is more likely that a larger share of SNP votes would return to a resurgent Labour party than move to the Conservatives (like how ex-kippers returned to Lab rather than going on to Con).

    Scon have room to increase but are probably nearing their ceiling as long as the Labour party looks resurgent. the SNP seem to be flailing post-election, so there is a large well of potential SNP voters for them to have 'return home'.

    I think a minority SNP administration in 2021 is most likely, but Kezia as FM is more likely than Ruth - SNP fallback will lead to Slab leapfrogging Scon.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Not at all surprised at Boris's ratings, or that of Ruth Davidson. But ca canny, Ruth Davidson is now totally focussed on one overriding aim, and that is to be the first Scottish Conservative FM at Holyrood. Hence the very prominant role she is now playing when it comes to making sure of the independence of the current crop of 13 Scottish Conservative MPs at Westminster.

    I can't see how Ruth can get to FM - if there is an SNP collapse it is more likely to be Slab that benefits the most. Potentially the SLD could support Ruth but Slab wouldn't - it would immediately give ammo to the SNP to take back support again from Slab - too risky. Conversely, there is much less risk involved for the Scon's to prop up Slab. So if the SNP are kicked out next time it is much more likely to be a Slab government supported by Scon than the other way round.
    The current voting system at Holyrood is not set up to deliver a majority, but as you may have noticed, the Scottish Conservatives under Ruth Davidson overtook the Scottish Labour party as the main Opposition at Holyrood. They also performed far better than the Scottish Labour party did in the last GE despite the Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn's campaigns. Blame the Scottish Conservative result on the Ruth Davidson! You don't achieve that kind of level of political success without garnering the tactical votes of Scottish Labour voters in much the same way that the SNP used to be able to collect Tory votes..
    The question is "is this a one off?". Now that people in Scotland realise their vote can actually affect who forms the British government will SCon be able to harvest Labour vote in Aberdeen South and the like?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,533
    TOPPING said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    The electorate didn't have them down as lunatics.
    Those over the age of about 45 did.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Dadge said:



    Yabbut there must be a relatively low ceiling on Tory vote share in Scotland which even Ruth Davidson can't push much higher. Even if the Tories became the largest party, which is quite possible, I can't see the Labour or SNP group supporting a Tory-led government or a Davidson FM-ship. It would certainly not be in their interests to do so.

    Yes - Scon can support Slab over SNP, because Scon will face no cry of betrayal if they do - there's no party poised to take their votes. Slab cannot prop up Scon without SNP crying betrayal (and vice versa). Scon can be kingmakers but not the king.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Can you all pray that there's no major breaking news in the next three hours so I can watch Spider-Man: Homecoming in peace.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    Seriously what do they teach at Cowley Tech?

    If I were a student there, I'd want a refund.
    At least they named a comma after us.......and Starmer's undergraduate degree was from Leeds.....surprising he can write, really....
    Inverted?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TOPPING said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    The electorate didn't have them down as lunatics.
    Dead wrong. Jezza's a superstar. You don't buy a Michael Jackson record as a tribute to his well-balanced sanity and normality, and that's not why you vote Jezza either.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,247

    Can you all pray that there's no major breaking news in the next three hours so I can watch Spider-Man: Homecoming in peace.

    For just how long are Hollywood going to milk the Marvel franchise to death?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    edited July 2017

    TOPPING said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    The electorate didn't have them down as lunatics.
    Those over the age of about 45 did.
    As I'm sure did many with red hair and size 10 feet. But on the whole the electorate took Labour seriously.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Ishmael_Z said:

    TOPPING said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    The electorate didn't have them down as lunatics.
    Dead wrong. Jezza's a superstar. You don't buy a Michael Jackson record as a tribute to his well-balanced sanity and normality, and that's not why you vote Jezza either.
    Hmm. Inspired perhaps, iconoclast maybe, breaking the mould almost certainly..but 40% of the electorate don't vote for a lunatic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345

    Can you all pray that there's no major breaking news in the next three hours so I can watch Spider-Man: Homecoming in peace.

    For just how long are Hollywood going to milk the Marvel franchise to death?
    There's a lot of material to cover, so I reckon for at least the next 40 years.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Bad few days for Sevco fans

    Supreme Court dismisses appeal by liquidators of RFC 2012 - formerly The Rangers Football Club - over tax dispute and rules in HMRC's favour
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    I fear the Grenfell survivors are being poorly advised by some of the people pretending to help them, and from conversations I've had outside here, might be somewhat losing sympathy amongst the public.

    The "They should give us the houses we want" attitude is ridiculous, as are demands for permanent homes immediately.

    I heard this morning that they've got 200 police officers working on the case. Wouldn't one with a brain be a better idea? No wonder the residents are pissed off. But its unfair to judge them on one or two of the noisiest and most demanding. For every one of those there will be ten others quietly embarrassed at their antics just desperate for their lives to be sorted out.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited July 2017
    Scottish GDP up 0.8% in Q1 - so much for the FAI prediction !

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40498752
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Royale, they'll keep flogging the horse until it stops spewing out money.

    That's business. And, to be fair, many of the films are rather good and a common universe works very well for superhero shenanigans.

    That said, it's weird how often Spiderman gets rebooted. This must be the third time in about a decade.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229

    Bad few days for Sevco fans

    Supreme Court dismisses appeal by liquidators of RFC 2012 - formerly The Rangers Football Club - over tax dispute and rules in HMRC's favour

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0073-press-summary.pdf

    If only the Tories would go after tax dodgers......
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited July 2017

    Lawyer ignorant of law:

    ...Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, as amended, now provides that “Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (the Article that sets out the procedure for EU withdrawal) … shall apply to this Treaty.”....

    The position, therefore, is that the Article 50 notice of withdrawal from the European Union would automatically have operated as a notice, under the Euratom Treaty, of withdrawal from the Euratom Community......

    Withdrawal from Euratom was therefore not a question of stubborn absolutism on the part of the Prime Minister over submission to the jurisdiction of the CJEU. It was, rather, an inevitable legal consequence of the decision of the British people to withdraw from the EU. The only legal means of effecting withdrawal is by serving an Article 50 notice, which, as illustrated above, also has the automatic effect of withdrawing from Euratom.


    http://brexitcentral.com/cant-pick-choose-bits-eu-membership-like-brexit-must-come-withdrawal-euratom/
    At first blush, Article 106a doesn't mean what this guy thinks it means. It says, or at least arguably says, that if you want out of Euratom you serve a separate, Euratom-specific Art. 50 notice and then your 2 years wrt Euratom runs from the date of that notice.

    ed: 2 yrs not 5
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    They're creating quite a carbon footprint the Rees-Moggs
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Roger said:

    They're creating quite a carbon footprint the Rees-Moggs
    I imagine they will crack on till they run out of Christian names.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Mr. Roger, " But its unfair to judge them on one or two of the noisiest and most demanding."

    Indeed. And yet, that was precisely the approach adopted by those advocating spending billions more increasing public sector pay based on the heroism of the individual police constable who fought all three of the London bridge attackers.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    JRM?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    JRM?
    Jacob Rees Mogg, coincidentally.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited July 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
    It was for Miliband. It showed him to be fake.
  • HenryGMansonHenryGManson Posts: 149
    O/T TENNIS BETTING: Hello for those interested in Wimbledon I am backing Fabio FOGNINI to beat Jiri Vesely at 8/11 with most firms. FOGNINI is much-improved over the last two years and has adapted a clay-court game to be competitive on all surfaces unlike his opponent. This has seen him rise to 29 in the world and reaching the last four of the Miami Masters hard court tournament earlier this year which would have been unthinkable a while back. He has the stronger serve which will be important on fast grass.

    I don't start Wimbledon betting until the second round because I like to have a look at how players who don't normally play much grass have got on in round one. FOGNINI won 76% of his first serves in his first round straight sets win over Tursunov which is a stat I like given he gets a decent number of first serves in. His second serve was solid too.

    Both players will make double faults but FOGNINI now has the service action to compensate with aces. In his first match he made 10 aces to 5 doubles, while Vesely also hit 5 double faults but made no aces. In tennis those margins matter especially on grass where one break might be enough to take a set. Vesely was taken to 5 sets in round 1 and only won 43% of second serves which is where FOGNINI will pounce with his grounds strokes.

    Vesely was dumped out of the only other grass tournament he's played at Eastbourne losing in straight sets in round one to Popsipil. He's not showing the form that would suggest he can beat his opponent today. These two have played twice before albeit on clay and FOGNINI won both those matches which will mean Vesely won't be going in with a great deal of confidence, although the surfaces couldn't be more different. FOGNINI possibly won't have it all his own way but he has developed an extra gear and I can see him winning in 4 sets which has some appeal at 7/2. The match win at 8/11 is the most straight forward bet and should be closer to 4/9 in my book.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Con Home now has released figures for its full leadership poll of Tory members as to who should succeed May. Davis is top choice on 24%, Boris second on 18% and Patel third on 8% (just ahead of Hammond)
    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/next-tory-leader-davis-leads-our-survey-but-is-outscored-by-none-of-the-above.html

    Didn't they use to call ConHome KipperHome though? It might not be representative of the activist base
    Con Home got the 2005 Tory leadership election spot on
    Empires have disappeared in a shorter timeframe than that
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    edited July 2017
    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    JRM?
    Jacob Rees Mogg, coincidentally.
    I didn't know you were being funny!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,247

    Mr. Royale, they'll keep flogging the horse until it stops spewing out money.

    That's business. And, to be fair, many of the films are rather good and a common universe works very well for superhero shenanigans.

    That said, it's weird how often Spiderman gets rebooted. This must be the third time in about a decade.

    Fair enough. I'd rather talk manhole covers with Jeremy Corbyn though.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    JRM?
    Jacob Rees Mogg, coincidentally.
    I didn't know you were being funny!!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40432921
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    O/T TENNIS BETTING: Hello for those interested in Wimbledon I am backing Fabio FOGNINI to beat Jiri Vesely at 8/11 with most firms. FOGNINI is much-improved over the last two years and has adapted a clay-court game to be competitive on all surfaces unlike his opponent. This has seen him rise to 29 in the world and reaching the last four of the Miami Masters hard court tournament earlier this year which would have been unthinkable a while back. He has the stronger serve which will be important on fast grass.

    I don't start Wimbledon betting until the second round because I like to have a look at how players who don't normally play much grass have got on in round one. FOGNINI won 76% of his first serves in his first round straight sets win over Tursunov which is a stat I like given he gets a decent number of first serves in. His second serve was solid too.

    Both players will make double faults but FOGNINI now has the service action to compensate with aces. In his first match he made 10 aces to 5 doubles, while Vesely also hit 5 double faults but made no aces. In tennis those margins matter especially on grass where one break might be enough to take a set. Vesely was taken to 5 sets in round 1 and only won 43% of second serves which is where FOGNINI will pounce with his grounds strokes.

    Vesely was dumped out of the only other grass tournament he's played at Eastbourne losing in straight sets in round one to Popsipil. He's not showing the form that would suggest he can beat his opponent today. These two have played twice before albeit on clay and FOGNINI won both those matches which will mean Vesely won't be going in with a great deal of confidence, although the surfaces couldn't be more different. FOGNINI possibly won't have it all his own way but he has developed an extra gear and I can see him winning in 4 sets which has some appeal at 7/2. The match win at 8/11 is the most straight forward bet and should be closer to 4/9 in my book.


    Henry...where have you been of late?

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849



    What's the difference between wilder eyes and swivel eyes?

    You get the first from coke, the second from pegging.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,359
    calum said:

    Scottish GDP up 0.8% in Q1 - so much for the FAI prediction !

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40498752

    A day seems to be the new international unit of a long time in politics.

    https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/882240762985025537
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    Are the other boys named in sequence? Primus, Secundus, etc.....?

    It seems like a rotten thing to do to the children. They have to bear the ridicule of unusual names, not the parent who named them.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    The 2057 GE will be won by Sixtus Rees-Mogg. He will become the Minister-President of a obscure and poverty stricken region of the Eurabian Union known as 'the Home Counties'.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
    It was for Miliband. It showed him to be fake.
    ET is very comfortable in her own shoes too.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    Are the other boys named in sequence? Primus, Secundus, etc.....?

    It seems like a rotten thing to do to the children. They have to bear the ridicule of unusual names, not the parent who named them.
    Yes. This just seems like an opportunity to demonstrate that he is au fait with history and culture. Presumably the mother insisted on Christopher so that everyone else can call him that instead.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Does this table tell us much more than the make-up of the readership of Conservative Home? It always was dominated by the wilder-eyed Leavers.

    What's the difference between wilder eyes and swivel eyes?
    "Wilder eyes" is the early stages of "Swivel eyes". The transition occurs when the sufferer finally disconnects from everyday life and imagines that their preferred fantasy is the reality that everyone else experiences.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,941

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    Are the other boys named in sequence? Primus, Secundus, etc.....?

    It seems like a rotten thing to do to the children. They have to bear the ridicule of unusual names, not the parent who named them.
    Yes. This just seems like an opportunity to demonstrate that he is au fait with history and culture. Presumably the mother insisted on Christopher so that everyone else can call him that instead.
    Like Zowie Bowie, who called himself 'Joe', maybe the kid will rebel a bit.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
    It was for Miliband. It showed him to be fake.
    ET is very comfortable in her own shoes too.
    Her main problems for me are firstly she's a posh islingtonite and secondly she's a party first, country second type, she has nailed her colours to every mast of the last 10 years. Namby pamby socialism without grit or teeth. She's a May style amorphous mess, not a leader.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    Are the other boys named in sequence? Primus, Secundus, etc.....?

    It seems like a rotten thing to do to the children. They have to bear the ridicule of unusual names, not the parent who named them.
    My grandfather was called Quintus.

    But as he was the sixth kid, it was just to screw with people...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Unaccountably he has given his only daughter the single Christian name of Mary. Perhaps he thinks fillies are too weak to bear the burden of lots of stupid names.
    Are the other boys named in sequence? Primus, Secundus, etc.....?

    It seems like a rotten thing to do to the children. They have to bear the ridicule of unusual names, not the parent who named them.
    No, in a word, but I imagine some of the earlier boys would trade one of their actual names for Tertius or whatever.

    "Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg and his wife have welcomed their fifth child in to the world - and they have given him an absolutely spectacular name.

    However, they have also given him quite a lot to live up to, naming him after a king, a saint, a pope and a war hero.

    The little boy, who was born on Monday, has been named Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius Mogg.

    The North Somerset MP told the Bristol Post: "Alfred is after Alfred the Great, Wulfric comes from Wulfric of Haselbury who was born in 1080 in Compton Martin, which is our neighbouring village.

    "Leyson is a family name and honours Louis Leyson Rees-Mogg who died at Gallipoli just over one hundred years ago and Pius is after Pius IX who was the longest serving Pope after Saint Peter."

    The child is Mr Rees-Mogg's fourth son with his wife Helena de Chair, joining brothers Tom Wentworth Somerset Dunstan, Peter Theodore Alphege, and Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam.

    Their only daughter, however, is simply called Mary."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-jacob-reesmogg-has-given-his-fifth-child-an-amazing-name-a3189441.html

    There were several popes Sixtus, incl. the one who built the Sistine/Sixtine Chapel.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Fair enough. I'd rather talk manhole covers with Jeremy Corbyn though.

    You and PB's euphemisms for gay sex gets longer by the day ....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited July 2017
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
    It was for Miliband. It showed him to be fake.
    ET is very comfortable in her own shoes too.
    She'd get my vote.
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    JRM?
    Jacob Rees Mogg, coincidentally.
    I didn't know you were being funny!!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40432921
    After Jeremy anything's possible but I don't think so. I think we'll have to wait at least till Sixtus gets to Eighteenius before we'll see a Rees Mogg leading the Tories.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,074
    Interesting suggestion, Mr. Manson, though I'm generally not fond of short odds bets.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Gotta be JRM. No one on that list cuts it; Thornberry, Benn, Cooper look much more prime ministerial to me, and the tories are extraordinarily lucky that the lunatics have taken over the Labour asylum, and are due to consolidate their position at party conference.

    Thornberry has only 1 black mark next to her name with that whole Rotherham affair. Otherwise, she has actually been quite impressive - she generally performs well on TV, she's clearly of the left but not a hard left marxist type. She's clearly a bit of a champagne socialist, but her background is not. To my knowledge no history of IRA remarks or similar.

    If the Corbynistas do consolidate control, I think she would be in with a shot for next leader
    She is very good on TV, and the chav flag tweet was really, really not the career-annihilating blunder it was portrayed as.
    It was for Miliband. It showed him to be fake.
    ET is very comfortable in her own shoes too.
    ET would be a gift for the Tories, a proper champagne socialist and hypocrite to boot.

    Her father worked for the UN and NATO, nothing wrong with that but does contradict the 'her background is not' theory above.

    Despite campaigning for a greater commitment to social housing, it didn't stop her adding an ex-local authority house to her property portfolio and letting it out.

    Plus the Rochester tweet will come back to haunt her forever and rightly so, if she is leader then Labour can kiss goodbye to the WWC vote they just got back from Ukip.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited July 2017

    Listening to the latest on Grenfell the magnitude of the problem is daunting for all those who are trying to provide help, reassurance and guidance as so many are traumatised and, understandably, cannot see beyond their immediate trauma which will last for months, years, and even lifetimes.

    The fact that out of 139 offers of temporary accommodation from the government have resulted in only 9 acceptances of the accommodation says far more about the grief and trauma than it does about the government's action to provide the accommodation.

    I am concerned though that some of the residents demands seem to be from left leaning pressure groups and that some may be perceived as unreasonable to the public at large. The relatives met the police and coroner yesterday and some walked out after a few minutes as they were not getting the information they wanted on the missing and presumed dead, but this has to have more to do with their understandable grief and trauma than it has of consideration to the almost impossible situation facing the police and forensic scientists.

    Furthermore, David Lammy, Diane Abbott and others labour politicians should be ashamed at their attempts to undermine the independently appointed judge who needs to get on with the inquiry. Someone was suggesting that as the judge had not lived in a high rise block he could not make a judgement on this disaster. It is good to see that Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed the judge and full marks to him.

    I do wonder just how long some of these pressure groups will retain the sympathy of the public.

    Most residents have been offered two and some three different options. In 3 weeks, that seems to be reasonable, given the restrictions of it appears that the pressure group won't accept individuals being moved out of the borough and the fact that as was interestingly put that many people were living in "overcrowded situations" i.e. there were more people in individuals flats than were allowed or the council knew of. And hence why some people have been offered say 2 bed place and then said but we need more.

    Just watching old fat head having a go at Dominic Grieve. Some of his criticisms are frankly ridiculous i.e. how dare the government announce the name of the judge. If they hadn't, the media would be saying why aren't you making progress on setting up the inquiry.
This discussion has been closed.