Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield: How retiring MPs could add to Lib Dem woes

24

Comments

  • Having had a good 2012 Miliband appears to be struggling with 2013

    A Millibandus Horribilis annus?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2013
    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?
    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/
    Are there any?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574



    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    Mike thats a huge red herring, wasn't this will drafted 12 years ago. When Labour were in power ?

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited August 2013
    DavidL said:


    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    The obvious explanation is that the market expects base rates to increase in the UK more rapidly than they will in France. This will be because the UK is exepcted to outperform the EZ over the next year or so allowing, indeed requiring, the gradual return to more normal levels of interest rates to control inflation.

    Because they think that base rates will increase they need a higher rate of return on their gilts to avoid a capital loss. Think of it as a vote of confidence in the UK recovery.

    The EZ in contrast, still has a much poorer outlook despite this morning's figures so their rates will likely remain unchanged for longer. Hopefully their figures will also pick up soon at which point their gilt rates will pick up as well.

    Yes, I too see this as a "good" thing (though doubtless GO at NO 11 might disagree). Essentially, at some point it would be beneficial to return to something approaching an historical norm of gilt yields (say 4%+ish for a 15 yr gilt rather than levels not seen since Gibraltar was Spanish - no really.). Such a return a) indicates "normality" returning so good in general confidence terms b) reduces notional liabilities on pension deficits right now thereby encouraging less company defensive saving (all those corporate cash piles) and more investment. Works on a personal level too: if an individual wants a target retirement income of X, and X at 3% yield requires £500K, X at 4% yield requires "only" £375K meaning you can save 125K less and spend it down the pub (or whatever) thereby generating income for that nice chap that pours you a pint, and sells you a bag of crisps and so on. It's called demand and it's what we lack.

    Now the trick is of course not to crash the housing market with rate rises and reduce the demand that way by taking from borrowers, of which there are too many who have borrowed too much, prime of which is the State (which is why HMG is priming the pump by underwriting mortgages much to my concern). Slowly, slowly is what we need, but rate/gilt yield rises in the long run to sensible levels are good.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    An odd feature of the will is that the solicitor went back for clarification. One assumes therefore he wasn't the same person who drew up the will. Either way I doubt that particular firm will be dealing with many estates from now on
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Presumably there is a written record of the exchanges that took place between the solicitors and the lady back in 2001. Given it happened 12 years ago it's quite possible the relevant lawyers are no longer with the firm and/or have misremembered. But whatever else it is extraordinary that the will was not drafted more carefully so that there was absolutely no room for doubt.


    Not extraordinary, there are lots of crap lawyers out there.

    That is a very fair point!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    Pulpstar said:



    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    Mike thats a huge red herring, wasn't this will drafted 12 years ago. When Labour were in power ?

    What has that got to do with it? He is referring to the solicitors involved during the recent disposal of the estate. Although I very much doubt it would have happened, he is raising the idea that the solicitors legal perspective may have been influenced by their tribal party loyalty.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    Strength of British recovery... expectations of future rises in interest rates ... rational markets theory leads to rises in current yields as market participants position themselves
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2013
    Roger said:

    An odd feature of the will is that the solicitor went back for clarification. One assumes therefore he wasn't the same person who drew up the will. Either way I doubt that particular firm will be dealing with many estates from now on

    Unless they had the testator sign an exclusion of responsibility for choosing to ignore their advice.
    Does anyone know if the solicitors are also the Executors and if so what their charge on the estate for handling the probate is likely to be? Should be about £1,500 to £2,000 for a straightforword single house, but probably a % on the estate and if 3% (typical from banks) that is £15,000! Even 2% is £10,000.


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Having had a good 2012 Miliband appears to be struggling with 2013

    Arguably the Coalition had a bad 2012 rather than Miliband a good one [trying to isolate the motivating factor]. Hence once they got their act together, Miliband's true abilities are revealed
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:



    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    Mike thats a huge red herring, wasn't this will drafted 12 years ago. When Labour were in power ?

    Pretty optimistic LD activist who thought in 2001 that they'd be in power during the lifetime of a 78 year old woman. Having said which, I assume Mike's point was just that it might look cynical if the solicitor who wrote a very ambiguous will and then interpreted it as giving money to the LDs or Tories was politically active for either party. Obviously only superficially for the reason you give.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Obviously, we all need to acknowledge the absurdity of any suggestion that a lawyer was of anything other than absolute integrity when discharging his or her duties.

    Right? Right...?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Very noticeable from the graph is how little the Tories have benefitted from the loss of LD votes. Even in 2010, the Tories barely gained any of the lost Lib Dem votes.

    The swing comes almost entirely from the reduction in LD votes.

    The Labour gains are striking , particularly in 2005 when you would have thought despite the loss of the incumbent, the LD's would have retained many "Iraq" voters.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Roger said:

    An odd feature of the will is that the solicitor went back for clarification. One assumes therefore he wasn't the same person who drew up the will. Either way I doubt that particular firm will be dealing with many estates from now on

    Unless they had the testator sign an exclusion of responsibility for choosing to ignore their advice.
    Does anyone know if the solicitors are also the Executors and if so what their charge on the estate for handling the probate is likely to be? Should be about £1,500 to £2,000 for a straightforword single house, but probably a % on the estate and if 3% (typical from banks) that is £15,000! Even 2% is £10,000.
    The Will states that the partners of the solicitor firm who drew up the will are to be appointed the executors, and they are entitled to charge all usual professional charges.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    Strength of British recovery... expectations of future rises in interest rates ... rational markets theory leads to rises in current yields as market participants position themselves
    Cost to British businesses soar as a result. Long term mortgage rates will rise too.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    Strength of British recovery... expectations of future rises in interest rates ... rational markets theory leads to rises in current yields as market participants position themselves
    Cost to British businesses soar as a result. Long term mortgage rates will rise too.
    Interest rates are sub-normal at the moment.

    The faster we get back to a fully-functioning economy with normal interest rates (+/- 5%) the better IMV
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    El Baradei resigns...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    surbiton said:

    Very noticeable from the graph is how little the Tories have benefitted from the loss of LD votes. Even in 2010, the Tories barely gained any of the lost Lib Dem votes.

    The swing comes almost entirely from the reduction in LD votes.

    The Labour gains are striking , particularly in 2005 when you would have thought despite the loss of the incumbent, the LD's would have retained many "Iraq" voters.

    You have to be careful with your interpretation here, because the changes presented are not the absolute changes, but the anomalies with respect to the national changes. Or the anomalies of the anomalies, if you like.

    Given that in 2005 the national change included a large Labour - Lib Dem swing, then it is not surprising that without the incumbent the Lib Dems would have achieved a smaller swing - expressed as a swing in the opposite direction.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited August 2013
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    Strength of British recovery... expectations of future rises in interest rates ... rational markets theory leads to rises in current yields as market participants position themselves
    Cost to British businesses soar as a result. Long term mortgage rates will rise too.
    Not to ours it won't. Business has no debt (paid it off by not taking much out) except for pension liabilities on which we have been roundly shafted by low gilt yields, kept low in part by printing money. Rising gilt yields will save us a fortune. Quantatitive easing practically work of the Devil as far as I am concerned.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    @welshowl

    I certainly think that people underestimate just how extraordinary the current rates of interest are. The lowest rate in history unchanged now since March 2009. It is incredible how we have got used to this and ignored the incredible pain inflicted on savers as a result.

    If people are to be encouraged to save interest rates need to increase to a rate that gives a real return. We have not seen that for more than 5 years. Only fear and a lack of safe alternatives have allowed governments to borrow at these rates. If better opportunities are available and the government has to pay more to borrow that is a good thing. It is probably too cheap for their own good at the moment making deficit reduction seem less screamingly urgent than it is.

    My guess is that we will see small, incremental changes next year, especially if the EZ starts to help out and growth continues at anything like its current rate. So the gilt rates make perfect sense to me.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2013
    taffys said:

    Rail fares, threatening illegal gas bill caps and wagging fingers at wonga - hardly a revolution ?

    NO, but labour has a point here. Rail fares are absolutely extortionate and utility prices are soaring.

    The government will have to do something

    19 Feb 2009 – “Britain's rail fares are by far the highest in Europe with some commuters paying more than four times the amount for comparable journeys . ..”

    www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Transport‎

    4 November 2009 - “Britain's first £1,000 train ticket sparks row over soaring rail fares”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224906/First-1000-UK-train-fare-Newquay-Kyle-Lochalsh-sparks-outrage-soaring-prices.html#ixzz2bxUfIjqC

    Really can’t see this as the knock-out punch in Ed’s attack line can you?- what exactly did Labour do about the high cost of rail fares during their 13 years in power, apart from leaving them exorbitantly much higher than when they took office? - The same goes for 'utilities',,,!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847
    Something's fishy about Plaice. Is he milking the revolving door, or just refreshing himself before he retires?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-23699396
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Let's see what the Mail does with the story tomorrow.

    If the intent was to give it to political parties then the bequest was drafted very badly.

    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    I think this could've been a resonating story but the violence in Egypt is likely to knock it off the news headlines. Looks nasty out there.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's noteworthy that WillGate stopped in its tracks after Mrs Edward's executors made a statement.

    The only person I saw continuing to tweet about it was the Mail journalist who generated it. He tried to make it SomeoneElsesFault and then shut up.

    And then it was overtaken by Eg Miliband. Has anyone seen coverage of his actual speech? I haven't nor twitters about. Sunk without trace appears to sum it up.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Plato said:

    Has anyone seen coverage of his actual speech?

    @RicHolden
    On 1st day back, @Ed_Miliband throws out 'iron discipline' & makes a £465m unfunded commitment to restore spare room subsidy #sameoldlabour
  • Pulpstar said:



    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    Mike thats a huge red herring, wasn't this will drafted 12 years ago. When Labour were in power ?

    Of course this is a great way of getting 15 minutes of fame, even if it is after death. I wonder what the family (if there are any) are thinking right now?

    I might just re-draft my will to irritate the children.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    taffys said:

    Rail fares, threatening illegal gas bill caps and wagging fingers at wonga - hardly a revolution ?

    NO, but labour has a point here. Rail fares are absolutely extortionate and utility prices are soaring.

    The government will have to do something

    19 Feb 2009 – “Britain's rail fares are by far the highest in Europe with some commuters paying more than four times the amount for comparable journeys . ..”

    www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Transport‎

    4 November 2009 - “Britain's first £1,000 train ticket sparks row over soaring rail fares”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224906/First-1000-UK-train-fare-Newquay-Kyle-Lochalsh-sparks-outrage-soaring-prices.html#ixzz2bxUfIjqC

    Really can’t see this as the knock-out punch in Ed’s attack line can you?- what exactly did Labour do about the high cost of rail fares during their 13 years in power, apart from leaving them exorbitantly much higher than when they took office? - The same goes for 'utilities',,,!
    Above inflation increases in rail fares is one of those things - such as university tuition fees, or PFI - that there is a cross-party consensus on. The consensus is to deplore how awful it is when in Opposition, but carry on the same policy when in Government.

    I've given up and mostly drive now.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    So, basically she wasn't bothered whichever "party" got the money ? She could not have known at that time which party would be in power. That shows she had no particular allegiance.

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    tim said:

    @Charles & DavidL.

    So what's the point of Carney and Osborne promising no interest rate rises if that very promise sends the bond yields up and makes interest rate rises more likely?

    You are confusing cause and effect. Higher gilt yields are not the cause of higher interest rates but a reflection on their liklihood. The market has to take a view over differing periods for gilts of where the base rate is likely to be.

    At the moment there is a perceived risk, built on more rapid growth and housing policy that there may be a need to increase rates within a 12-18 month time frame. This affects gilts but gilts do not directly affect interest rates. Whether those increases come to pass will depend on the future path of the UK economy.

    If you are like hunchman, who was putting forward his crash idea yet again last night, you might think that the idea of interest rate increases is absurd. Thankfully the UK economy is in safer hands than that.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Fenster said:

    Let's see what the Mail does with the story tomorrow.

    If the intent was to give it to political parties then the bequest was drafted very badly.

    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    I think this could've been a resonating story but the violence in Egypt is likely to knock it off the news headlines. Looks nasty out there.

    In a cynical frame of mind, is there any way to validate that the money actually gets given to the Treasury?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited August 2013
    RodCrosby said:

    El Baradei resigns...

    Bloody well should. Otherwise, he would have been accessory to murder.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    @Charles & DavidL.

    So what's the point of Carney and Osborne promising no interest rate rises if that very promise sends the bond yields up and makes interest rate rises more likely?

    Carney was talking about BoE base rates. But the risae in yields is related to the strong performance of the UK economy, not the Carney comments specifically.

    Market yields are what has risen - this will likely impact funding rates for banks and the terms that they will lend on, but it's an imprecise relationship.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    taffys said:

    Rail fares, threatening illegal gas bill caps and wagging fingers at wonga - hardly a revolution ?

    NO, but labour has a point here. Rail fares are absolutely extortionate and utility prices are soaring.

    The government will have to do something

    19 Feb 2009 – “Britain's rail fares are by far the highest in Europe with some commuters paying more than four times the amount for comparable journeys . ..”

    www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Transport‎

    4 November 2009 - “Britain's first £1,000 train ticket sparks row over soaring rail fares”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224906/First-1000-UK-train-fare-Newquay-Kyle-Lochalsh-sparks-outrage-soaring-prices.html#ixzz2bxUfIjqC

    Really can’t see this as the knock-out punch in Ed’s attack line can you?- what exactly did Labour do about the high cost of rail fares during their 13 years in power, apart from leaving them exorbitantly much higher than when they took office? - The same goes for 'utilities',,,!
    Above inflation increases in rail fares is one of those things - such as university tuition fees, or PFI - that there is a cross-party consensus on. The consensus is to deplore how awful it is when in Opposition, but carry on the same policy when in Government.

    I've given up and mostly drive now.
    Ditto - Apart from when traveling up to London, where parking charges and 'congestion charges' would leave the family subsisting on baked beans for the rest of the week.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    surbiton said:

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.

    Certainly badly drafted, but the solicitors state it was intended for the political party forming the government. I always thought the idea was that you pay solicitors to avoid this sort of mess, but I must say my experience is that you always need to double-check everything yourself.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    taffys said:

    Rail fares, threatening illegal gas bill caps and wagging fingers at wonga - hardly a revolution ?

    NO, but labour has a point here. Rail fares are absolutely extortionate and utility prices are soaring.

    The government will have to do something

    19 Feb 2009 – “Britain's rail fares are by far the highest in Europe with some commuters paying more than four times the amount for comparable journeys . ..”

    www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Transport‎

    4 November 2009 - “Britain's first £1,000 train ticket sparks row over soaring rail fares”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224906/First-1000-UK-train-fare-Newquay-Kyle-Lochalsh-sparks-outrage-soaring-prices.html#ixzz2bxUfIjqC

    Really can’t see this as the knock-out punch in Ed’s attack line can you?- what exactly did Labour do about the high cost of rail fares during their 13 years in power, apart from leaving them exorbitantly much higher than when they took office? - The same goes for 'utilities',,,!
    Above inflation increases in rail fares is one of those things - such as university tuition fees, or PFI - that there is a cross-party consensus on. The consensus is to deplore how awful it is when in Opposition, but carry on the same policy when in Government.

    I've given up and mostly drive now.
    Ditto. It is cheaper for me to drive a medium sized car 100 miles a day with a single passenger than it is to buy rail tickets. How absurd is that?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    So, basically she wasn't bothered whichever "party" got the money ? She could not have known at that time which party would be in power. That shows she had no particular allegiance.

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.
    So you are saying that the statement put out by her lawyers is false?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Charles said:

    Fenster said:

    Let's see what the Mail does with the story tomorrow.

    If the intent was to give it to political parties then the bequest was drafted very badly.

    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    I think this could've been a resonating story but the violence in Egypt is likely to knock it off the news headlines. Looks nasty out there.

    In a cynical frame of mind, is there any way to validate that the money actually gets given to the Treasury?
    Don't all the parties publish accounts?

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited August 2013
    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    So, basically she wasn't bothered whichever "party" got the money ? She could not have known at that time which party would be in power. That shows she had no particular allegiance.

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.
    I quite like the idea I had downthread that she had sympathy with the constant pillorying received by government ministers and intended to make a bequest to the government ministers of the day...
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    I quote like the idea I had downthread that she had sympathy with the constant pillorying received by government ministers and intended to make a bequest to the government ministers of the day...

    Or maybe she thought that the 'short money' was an abomination on the face of the earth and this was her way of correcting for it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847

    taffys said:

    Rail fares, threatening illegal gas bill caps and wagging fingers at wonga - hardly a revolution ?

    NO, but labour has a point here. Rail fares are absolutely extortionate and utility prices are soaring.

    The government will have to do something

    19 Feb 2009 – “Britain's rail fares are by far the highest in Europe with some commuters paying more than four times the amount for comparable journeys . ..”

    www.telegraph.co.uk › Finance › News by Sector › Transport‎

    4 November 2009 - “Britain's first £1,000 train ticket sparks row over soaring rail fares”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224906/First-1000-UK-train-fare-Newquay-Kyle-Lochalsh-sparks-outrage-soaring-prices.html#ixzz2bxUfIjqC

    Really can’t see this as the knock-out punch in Ed’s attack line can you?- what exactly did Labour do about the high cost of rail fares during their 13 years in power, apart from leaving them exorbitantly much higher than when they took office? - The same goes for 'utilities',,,!
    That must have been a very specific set of circumstances: that journey (at least 20 hours on a train) costs much less nowadays:
    http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/NQY/KYL/tomorrow/0615/dep/310813/0815/dep

    If you ever get a ticket price of over £700, it would be worth considering a 7-day All-Line Rover for £702 first class, or £464 standard. There are some exclusions, but not many.
    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr20780b0a0400020167ed620a7e504e.aspx
  • surbiton said:

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.

    Certainly badly drafted, but the solicitors state it was intended for the political party forming the government. I always thought the idea was that you pay solicitors to avoid this sort of mess, but I must say my experience is that you always need to double-check everything yourself.

    Ditto. The number of times I have had to rewrite solictors' drafts of something or other is extraordinary. Though not as extraordinary as the fact that they then bill for the time they spent putting together the rubbish that had to be changed.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Fenster said:

    Let's see what the Mail does with the story tomorrow.

    If the intent was to give it to political parties then the bequest was drafted very badly.

    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    I think this could've been a resonating story but the violence in Egypt is likely to knock it off the news headlines. Looks nasty out there.

    In a cynical frame of mind, is there any way to validate that the money actually gets given to the Treasury?
    Don't all the parties publish accounts?

    Yes, but you wouldn't necessarily breakout every payment.

    You could have an arguement as whether the payment should be reflected as negative revenues (i.e. reversing out the original transaction) or it could also be considered "other operating expenses".

    The only risk (and I haven't looked at prior years) is if the parties publish a list of, say, their 10 largest donations & they don't have 10 larger than this.

    Although I could imagine a conversation as follows:

    - 'Did you pay the money to the Treasury'?
    - 'We said we would write them a cheque and we did'
    - But did you give them the cheque'?

    [after all, according to rumour, Bernie Ecclestone never cashed the £1m cheque when Labour repaid his donation]
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    I see Tim 'why won't the government cut benefits' is clucking away about increasing benefits. Must be Avian flu..
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @tim - Surely not using an anecdote, one case out of 600,000, are you?

    For Ed Miliband, the Independent, and others who can't understand the incredibly simple fact that moving out of a house or flat frees it up for someone else, this article explains it:

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/localgovernment/2013/08/whatever-you-might-read-in-the-independent-in-cornwall-the-spare-room-subsidy-cut-is-working.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Scott_P said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone seen coverage of his actual speech?

    @RicHolden
    On 1st day back, @Ed_Miliband throws out 'iron discipline' & makes a £465m unfunded commitment to restore spare room subsidy #sameoldlabour

    Ric Holden reckons there will be savings from moving this guy out does he?

    You need some better bait on your hook tim.



  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I quote like the idea I had downthread that she had sympathy with the constant pillorying received by government ministers and intended to make a bequest to the government ministers of the day...

    Or maybe she thought that the 'short money' was an abomination on the face of the earth and this was her way of correcting for it.
    Yes, that is another good alternative explanation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    Charles said:



    In a cynical frame of mind, is there any way to validate that the money actually gets given to the Treasury?

    An FoI request? They would be barmy to say it was going to the Treasury, while at the same time they kept it in their accounts.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013

    Ditto. The number of times I have had to rewrite solictors' drafts of something or other is extraordinary. Though not as extraordinary as the fact that they then bill for the time they spent putting together the rubbish that had to be changed.

    I now write most documents myself, send them to the solicitors, and then find I get a bill for two grand for the pleasure of seeing them cut and paste it onto their letterhead.

    Having said that, the best lawyers are absolutely superb. But you can't tell in advance how good they are, and it all comes down to individuals. Paying megabucks for a top firm doesn't necessarily buy you the best. (I had a great example a few years ago when one of the top four firms completely failed to notice my company had a subsidiary company, which meant all the clauses they had painstakingly and expensively insisted on weren't worth a bean as they didn't bind the subsidiary. Luckily they were working for the other side.)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    All kinds of strange bequests get made. One of my classmates at school was left £4 million (in the 1980s) on condition that he changed his surname to an otherwise-extinct family name.

    That made the Daily Mail too.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    antifrank said:

    All kinds of strange bequests get made. One of my classmates at school was left £4 million (in the 1980s) on condition that he changed his surname to an otherwise-extinct family name.

    That made the Daily Mail too.

    Surely you just change it back again afterwards, or were the solicitors cunning enough to account for that eventuality? Based on evidence today, I would think not ;)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    DavidL said:


    Ditto. It is cheaper for me to drive a medium sized car 100 miles a day with a single passenger than it is to buy rail tickets. How absurd is that?

    Yes, though the root problem is that the cost of cars is frontloaded into tax in buying it and annual road fund licence (and insurance). When you've paid all that it's relatively cheap to drive the thing. The alternative that environmentalists like, blocked by protests from rural drivers and others who need to drive long distances for work, would be to abolish tax on purchase etc. and increase fuel tax, so as to make cars cheaper to own and more expensive to run.

    Another alternative is to live in London, where only madmen drive or indeed have a car at all, as public transport is nearly always faster, cheaper and less frustrating. But I appreciate there are some practical difficulties in moving the entire population to London.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    So, basically she wasn't bothered whichever "party" got the money ? She could not have known at that time which party would be in power. That shows she had no particular allegiance.

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.
    So you are saying that the statement put out by her lawyers is false?
    Have you never heard of incompetent lawyers ? If that was indeed her wish, why didn't the will explicitly say that.

    What is the rationale of the Liberal Democrats 20% share ? Are they so weak that they could not demand 50%. They should understand that on every government decision , they hold a veto.

    What would the Tories have done if they had asked for 50% ? Go to the press ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @RobD It appears from internet searches that that's exactly what he did.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Think Ed's calm handling of the egg won't do him any harm (as when it happened last time). Personally I agree with some of this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10239982/Ed-Miliband-is-a-b-and-thats-a-good-thing.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    surbiton said:


    What is the rationale of the Liberal Democrats 20% share ? Are they so weak that they could not demand 50%. They should understand that on every government decision , they hold a veto.

    Based on number of MPs and number of ministers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    antifrank said:

    @RobD It appears from internet searches that that's exactly what he did.

    Titter!
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Think Ed's calm handling of the egg won't do him any harm (as when it happened last time).

    So the more eggs chucked at Miliband the better he will do? Better get that message out to Labour activists so they can stock up on eggs.

  • It it now a case of Labour Egg-less Chickens?

    :)
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Think Ed's calm handling of the egg won't do him any harm (as when it happened last time). Personally I agree with some of this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10239982/Ed-Miliband-is-a-b-and-thats-a-good-thing.html

    Tom Harris comparing Ed Miliband to Margaret Thatcher. Whatever next?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    Housing swaps have been going on for decades, I bet if you look at that housing association they've been doing it for years.

    Why would someone with a spare room want to swap to somewhere smaller, if they have little or no financial incentive to do so?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited August 2013
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:



    In a cynical frame of mind, is there any way to validate that the money actually gets given to the Treasury?

    An FoI request? They would be barmy to say it was going to the Treasury, while at the same time they kept it in their accounts.
    Possibly... but stranger things have happened...

    Not sure an FOI request would reveal information on a specific payment (privacy) and are the parties open to them?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    antifrank said:

    All kinds of strange bequests get made. One of my classmates at school was left £4 million (in the 1980s) on condition that he changed his surname to an otherwise-extinct family name.

    That made the Daily Mail too.

    That used to be very common - particularly in Scotland.

    I have Grey, Hamilton and Nairne cousins (although we always insisted on a hyphenation...)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,112
    Charles said:


    Possibly... but stranger things have happened...

    Not sure an FOI request would reveal information on a specific payment (privacy) and are the parties open to them?

    The Treasury is (I would have assumed), but I suspect you are right that parties are not -- which may suggest why nothing more was heard of that £1m cheque not being cashed.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    @tim - Surely not using an anecdote, one case out of 600,000, are you?

    For Ed Miliband, the Independent, and others who can't understand the incredibly simple fact that moving out of a house or flat frees it up for someone else, this article explains it:

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/localgovernment/2013/08/whatever-you-might-read-in-the-independent-in-cornwall-the-spare-room-subsidy-cut-is-working.html

    And how does freeing up a house on which lots of money has been spent adapting it for the special needs of a disabled person save any money at all . It may well be that the council would then have to spend more money removing the adaptions from that house and more money on adapting the new flat/house into which the disabled person has moved .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,314
    edited August 2013

    David Skelton ‏@DJSkelton 10m
    When Harold Wilson was hit by an egg in '70, he responded,"if the Tories get in, in five years no-one will be able to afford to buy an egg."

    And he promptly went on to lose that election!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    So, basically she wasn't bothered whichever "party" got the money ? She could not have known at that time which party would be in power. That shows she had no particular allegiance.

    I personally think she meant whichever "government" in power, i.e. help the country. It was just badly drafted.
    So you are saying that the statement put out by her lawyers is false?
    Have you never heard of incompetent lawyers ? If that was indeed her wish, why didn't the will explicitly say that.

    What is the rationale of the Liberal Democrats 20% share ? Are they so weak that they could not demand 50%. They should understand that on every government decision , they hold a veto.

    What would the Tories have done if they had asked for 50% ? Go to the press ?
    Because a good working relationship is worth more than the extra £150K
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    RodCrosby said:

    Since there is always a "government in office", the "whichever" in the will must imply whichever party is in office.

    Rod is right on that - I was about to make the same point. That 'whichever' does throw in an element of support for the political party interpretation.

    It's certainly a spectacularly bad bit of drafting, though. If, as Davis Wood say, "It was confirmed by Miss Edwards at the time of her instructions that her estate was to be left to whichever political party formed the government at the date of her death", then why in the name of heaven didn't they use that wording?
    Surely it is open for the deceased's executors to obtain a judicial ruling on their interpretation of the will.

    This would be the best way of clearing the mess up.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013

    And how does freeing up a house on which lots of money has been spent adapting it for the special needs of a disabled person save any money at all . It may well be that the council would then have to spend more money removing the adaptions from that house and more money on adapting the new flat/house into which the disabled person has moved .

    Yes, there will be a tiny number of cases where that is true. As tim rightly says, we should of course not let anecdotes about such exceptional cases determine the overall policy, which is about subsidies for a staggering one million spare rooms, at a time when there are many thousands of families in very overcrowded accomodation.

    Of course, for the small number of exceptional cases, exceptions should be made. That's why the government has established a fund for exactly that purpose.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    DavidL said:


    Ditto. It is cheaper for me to drive a medium sized car 100 miles a day with a single passenger than it is to buy rail tickets. How absurd is that?

    Yes, though the root problem is that the cost of cars is frontloaded into tax in buying it and annual road fund licence (and insurance). When you've paid all that it's relatively cheap to drive the thing. The alternative that environmentalists like, blocked by protests from rural drivers and others who need to drive long distances for work, would be to abolish tax on purchase etc. and increase fuel tax, so as to make cars cheaper to own and more expensive to run.

    Another alternative is to live in London, where only madmen drive or indeed have a car at all, as public transport is nearly always faster, cheaper and less frustrating. But I appreciate there are some practical difficulties in moving the entire population to London.

    What would the people of Broxtowe say?

    I always think I have been in London too long when I start to get annoyed if I have to wait more than 5 minutes for a tube.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    In summary - Egg is now a total laughing stock.

    Is he IDS or Hague in a baseball cap or Brown listening to the Artic Monkeys ?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    Because the rent is lower.

    You're getting there, tim. If the financial incentive is sufficient, people will move and free up the spare rooms for those who desperately need them. If it's not, they won't. Glad you finally agree.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

    But that is because the story has fundamentally changed. The question used to be where is your money safest? We were safer than France so our rates were lower. Now the question is where is likely to grow fastest and start pushing interest rates up fastest? The answer is again the UK.

    Personally I think Danny Alexander deserves a lot of the blame. He has been simply excellent at a very difficult job.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. T, excellent job baiting people with your column. Not sure if you saw the thread here but there was quite an interesting discussion about gods.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:


    Ditto. It is cheaper for me to drive a medium sized car 100 miles a day with a single passenger than it is to buy rail tickets. How absurd is that?

    Yes, though the root problem is that the cost of cars is frontloaded into tax in buying it and annual road fund licence (and insurance). When you've paid all that it's relatively cheap to drive the thing. The alternative that environmentalists like, blocked by protests from rural drivers and others who need to drive long distances for work, would be to abolish tax on purchase etc. and increase fuel tax, so as to make cars cheaper to own and more expensive to run.

    Another alternative is to live in London, where only madmen drive or indeed have a car at all, as public transport is nearly always faster, cheaper and less frustrating. But I appreciate there are some practical difficulties in moving the entire population to London.

    What would the people of Broxtowe say?

    I always think I have been in London too long when I start to get annoyed if I have to wait more than 5 minutes for a tube.

    Most infrequent off-peak services (only the first serving places inside GLA border):

    Hainault - Woodford = 20 min. frequency
    Chalfont & Latimer - Amersham = 30 min.
    Chalfont & Latimer - Chesham = 30 min.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013
    tim said:

    why does the Govts own impact assessmenet say that 2/3 of those affected are disabled

    Because 'disabled' doesn't mean what you think it does.

    Actually, you don't. You know perfectly well how broad the term 'disabled' is in the official definitions: 6.9 million people of working age. Those attacking the government are being extremely dishonest by citing examples of people with spina bifida, or needing dialysis, and implying this is typical.

    Meanwhile - how many disabled people are stuck in the over-crowded accomodation?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

    But that is because the story has fundamentally changed. The question used to be where is your money safest? We were safer than France so our rates were lower. Now the question is where is likely to grow fastest and start pushing interest rates up fastest? The answer is again the UK.

    Personally I think Danny Alexander deserves a lot of the blame. He has been simply excellent at a very difficult job.
    Nope nothing has fundamentally changed . It is simply pbtories like yourself trying to spin something as positive one day and the opposite as positive the next without realising how ridiculous it makes you look .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    Another Tony Abbott gaffe downunder after he calls gay marriage 'the fashion of the moment'
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-14/abbott-denies-saying-gay-marriage-is-the-fashion-of-the-moment/4886922
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:


    Ditto. It is cheaper for me to drive a medium sized car 100 miles a day with a single passenger than it is to buy rail tickets. How absurd is that?

    Yes, though the root problem is that the cost of cars is frontloaded into tax in buying it and annual road fund licence (and insurance). When you've paid all that it's relatively cheap to drive the thing. The alternative that environmentalists like, blocked by protests from rural drivers and others who need to drive long distances for work, would be to abolish tax on purchase etc. and increase fuel tax, so as to make cars cheaper to own and more expensive to run.

    Another alternative is to live in London, where only madmen drive or indeed have a car at all, as public transport is nearly always faster, cheaper and less frustrating. But I appreciate there are some practical difficulties in moving the entire population to London.

    What would the people of Broxtowe say?

    I always think I have been in London too long when I start to get annoyed if I have to wait more than 5 minutes for a tube.

    Most infrequent off-peak services (only the first serving places inside GLA border):

    Hainault - Woodford = 20 min. frequency
    Chalfont & Latimer - Amersham = 30 min.
    Chalfont & Latimer - Chesham = 30 min.
    As a visitor and a tourist I rarely go further out than St John's Wood Sunil. It is a fantastic service and Londoners are extremely lucky to have it.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @tim - Maybe it should include pensioners. Why don't you suggest this to Ed M? He's looking for a policy.
  • SeanT said:

    My daughter and I went on them new helicopter joy-rides over London today.

    https://vine.co/v/hM635LvZuZI

    Great fun. Recommend. Also good if you want to escape angry atheists.

    Best view over London - a right hand window seat on a plane making its final descent into Heathrow. Stunning night or day. Can't think of a better final 15 minutes into any big city anywhere. For a first time visitor it must be magical. Shame about the rip-off journey back into town after that though.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed's Buddha silence is genius
    The Conservatives have also drawn up what they believe is an effective “grid” as designed by Mandelson/Campbell in the early New Labour years.

    I’ve picked up that Theresa May is next out of the traps on Monday with a Home Office intervention.

    The idea is to fill the space left by Labour’s lack of policy ideas: for as long as Miliband holds back on showing his hand on a full roster of policies (and there is a logic to his slow progress on this) there is space for the Tories to keep making the noise.
    http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2013/08/the-tories-tighten-up-their-anti-labour-operation/
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,658
    SeanT said:

    My daughter and I went on them new helicopter joy-rides over London today.

    https://vine.co/v/hM635LvZuZI

    Great fun. Recommend. Also good if you want to escape angry atheists.

    You're heading for 500 comments atm, maybe you can offer a trip to Holy Island for the best atheist comment and some signed bibles for the runners-up. Should keep things ticking over nicely.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

    But that is because the story has fundamentally changed. The question used to be where is your money safest? We were safer than France so our rates were lower. Now the question is where is likely to grow fastest and start pushing interest rates up fastest? The answer is again the UK.

    Personally I think Danny Alexander deserves a lot of the blame. He has been simply excellent at a very difficult job.
    Nope nothing has fundamentally changed . It is simply pbtories like yourself trying to spin something as positive one day and the opposite as positive the next without realising how ridiculous it makes you look .
    On 20th March in the budget Osborne announced that the OBR forecast growth for 2013 of 0.6%, the same as was achieved in Q2. Even you cannot believe that nothing has changed.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Wills are real minefields, and are not to be undertaken lightly. Beneficiaries should be as candid with professional advisers as the testator.

    A couple of years ago two jackasses I know were in the early stages of being pursued for debts related to a social club they had managed to destroy.

    Sadly, at the same time, their wife/mother was dying of cancer and the family property was all in her name. Two days before she died she made a will leaving everything to the two jackasses. A few months later they were made bankrupt for the club debts, and so their inheritance was lost, becoming the property of the Official Receiver. If these two had discussed their predicament with the solicitors drawing up the will, they would have redrafted it in such a way that the property was protected, e.g. by writing it in a Trust...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Scott_P said:

    Plato said:

    Has anyone seen coverage of his actual speech?

    @RicHolden
    On 1st day back, @Ed_Miliband throws out 'iron discipline' & makes a £465m unfunded commitment to restore spare room subsidy #sameoldlabour
    Ah...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    RodCrosby said:

    Wills are real minefields, and are not to be undertaken lightly. Beneficiaries should be as candid with professional advisers as the testator.

    A couple of years ago two jackasses I know were in the early stages of being pursued for debts related to a social club they had managed to destroy.

    Sadly, at the same time, their wife/mother was dying of cancer and the family property was all in her name. Two days before she died she made a will leaving everything to the two jackasses. A few months later they were made bankrupt for the club debts, and so their inheritance was lost, becoming the property of the Official Receiver. If these two had discussed their predicament with the solicitors drawing up the will, they would have redrafted it in such a way that the property was protected, e.g. by writing it in a Trust...

    Good. The damage they had done was repaired.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. T, though subtle and cunning I was able to discern the most slender of provocative threads.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

    But that is because the story has fundamentally changed. The question used to be where is your money safest? We were safer than France so our rates were lower. Now the question is where is likely to grow fastest and start pushing interest rates up fastest? The answer is again the UK.

    Personally I think Danny Alexander deserves a lot of the blame. He has been simply excellent at a very difficult job.
    Nope nothing has fundamentally changed . It is simply pbtories like yourself trying to spin something as positive one day and the opposite as positive the next without realising how ridiculous it makes you look .
    On 20th March in the budget Osborne announced that the OBR forecast growth for 2013 of 0.6%, the same as was achieved in Q2. Even you cannot believe that nothing has changed.
    All that tells us is that Osborne is a rubbish economic forecaster and worse Chancellor .
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013

    Pulpstar said:



    Let's hope that none of the solicitors involved is a CON OR LD activist.

    Mike thats a huge red herring, wasn't this will drafted 12 years ago. When Labour were in power ?

    Of course this is a great way of getting 15 minutes of fame, even if it is after death. I wonder what the family (if there are any) are thinking right now?

    I might just re-draft my will to irritate the children.
    I can't recall which vulture journalist was trying to make this story but three spring to mind who promptly shut up.

    One said something like 'Mrs Edwards was 80 when she drew up her will so that was under Labour' then implied that the money was intended for Labour because being 80 was close to falling off her perch.

    The level some stoop to is frankly very peculiar and grubby. That they write for the FT and C4 just makes it worse.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,301
    Commend from the BBC "Ed is crap" article:

    "I was a Conservative member for 46 years till recently, I have been impressed by Milliband, he is the type of person who has definitely got what it takes to be PM, PMQ's Cameron never answers a question, I believe that when the Election comes, people will look at the future and say " get rid of this incompetent coalition" good luck Ed you have my Vote!"

    Sounds like a reincarnation of Phil "us blues" Roberts!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. T, I recall learning that people who are sick and have friends/relatives who pray for them tend to have better survival odds.

    Of course, a drunk man may be happier than a sober one, but that doesn't mean whisky is divine.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    tim said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    The Osborne fans on here care to explain this?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/


    Bubble policy sending UK debt financing up, now way above France

    "way above France" - bless. Like the usual BBC line that the stockmarket "plummeted" 0.3%..?

    10-yr rates have been above France for weeks now. But, critically, and especially with regard to your "Tories spending more than Labour" meme, they are relatively low and come as a direct consequence of the market believing The Osbo when he arrived that the deficit would be addressed.
    We know that UK 10 year rates are higher than France and remember when pbtories used to boast how they were lower than than France because of their socialist president .

    But that is because the story has fundamentally changed. The question used to be where is your money safest? We were safer than France so our rates were lower. Now the question is where is likely to grow fastest and start pushing interest rates up fastest? The answer is again the UK.

    Personally I think Danny Alexander deserves a lot of the blame. He has been simply excellent at a very difficult job.
    Nope nothing has fundamentally changed . It is simply pbtories like yourself trying to spin something as positive one day and the opposite as positive the next without realising how ridiculous it makes you look .
    On 20th March in the budget Osborne announced that the OBR forecast growth for 2013 of 0.6%, the same as was achieved in Q2. Even you cannot believe that nothing has changed.
    German rates gone up have they?

    Fact is that the bubble policy of Osborne and Carney, including promises of no interest rate rises for years isn't believed by the markets as you've said yourself upthread.

    So what should savers do?
    Property looks like a one way bet doesn't it, with the bubble boys in charge
    Yes, yes it does. There is a lot of catching up to do, especially outside London.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited August 2013
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    My daughter and I went on them new helicopter joy-rides over London today.

    https://vine.co/v/hM635LvZuZI

    Great fun. Recommend. Also good if you want to escape angry atheists.

    You're heading for 500 comments atm, maybe you can offer a trip to Holy Island for the best atheist comment and some signed bibles for the runners-up. Should keep things ticking over nicely.
    I had a drink with some Telegraph bigwigs t'other day and they told me - interestingly - that more important than the number of comments is the number of "shares" - i.e. Twitter links, Facebook links, Reddits, etc

    A piece can generate 1000 comments - and that's great and v welcome - but that can just be three old stoners arguing about cheese, online, at 3am. Whereas actual links prove the Telegraph website is being accessed by lots of different people. Anything that gets anywhere near the magic 1000 links is gold-dust. ATM the piece has 800 links (and it's still going up) so it's done the job.

    It was an intriguing insight into the scary new world of digital journalism.
    I've never understood why the telegraph was happy to use a third party comments systems (disqus).

    Running the comments system in house means they have the email address of their readers, they can then email them about new stuff, or if their visits/comments decline in frequency.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,658

    Mr. T, I recall learning that people who are sick and have friends/relatives who pray for them tend to have better survival odds.

    Of course, a drunk man may be happier than a sober one, but that doesn't mean whisky is divine.

    Bushmills is.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. Max, one would be unsurprised if it were the same fellow.

    It's about as convincing as an unsolicited e-mail from the crown prince of Nigeria.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    SeanT said:

    My daughter and I went on them new helicopter joy-rides over London today.

    https://vine.co/v/hM635LvZuZI

    Great fun. Recommend. Also good if you want to escape angry atheists.

    Best view over London - a right hand window seat on a plane making its final descent into Heathrow. Stunning night or day. Can't think of a better final 15 minutes into any big city anywhere. For a first time visitor it must be magical. Shame about the rip-off journey back into town after that though.

    Agree. Great isn't it. I especially like trying to pick out the football grounds if the floodlights are on.
This discussion has been closed.