I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a thing, but it's not a solid pattern. Obviously, the country as a whole has surged pro-Tory, anti-Tory, and pro-Tory since then, so that cycle is overlaid on it, but while the cohorts from 1933 births to 1962 births do seem to follow very similar patterns, the 1971 births onwards seem to be creating a new pattern. The 1966 birth cohort could go either way, but seem to be weakly following their predecessors.
They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
Seems almost rational. After all, May has lowered the bar rather a lot...
The bar can only get lower if buried underground. I remember Ms Leadsom's last attempt and she came across as utterly, utterly clueless. She appeared to do nothing other than spout vacuous soundbites. It was incredible that anyone thought she was a contender.
Amber Rudd may have a majority of only 346 but she would be a better choice. I am struggling to think of other candidates.
Initially I thought Rudds majority would rule her out, too risky that she has to spend too long in her own seat. But actually it would offer a sort of do-or-die attitude to her campaign. She would have to be convincing to the country because her own place in parliament would be on the line. It would certainly offer a leader who comes across less entitled than most Tories, seeing as she has only just survived her own brush with political death. There is always a small risk she wins the campaign but loses her own seat, although I am sceptical that a decapitation strategy would work in this case.
I think Rudd may just be the roll of the dice the Tories need.
There is also the other consideration that the Tories prospects at the next election might be no better than Mrs Rudds. The scenarios for the next election results are
1: She wins & Tories lose 2: She wins & Tories Win 3: She loses & Tories lose 4: She loses & Tories Win
So only scenario '4' requires a new PM to be selected from the Tories. There is no downside in 3 out of 4 outcomes assuming she makes no unforced errors and has to resign.
Agree. Her majority should not rule her out. I also see a huge distracting campaign to remove her backfiring on the opposition as bullying and wasting resources.
Seems almost rational. After all, May has lowered the bar rather a lot...
The bar can only get lower if buried underground. I remember Ms Leadsom's last attempt and she came across as utterly, utterly clueless. She appeared to do nothing other than spout vacuous soundbites. It was incredible that anyone thought she was a contender.
Amber Rudd may have a majority of only 346 but she would be a better choice. I am struggling to think of other candidates.
Come on give Mrs Leadsom a break! She's a mum after all, so much better suited than Theresa.
Being a mum is fine, but if you want to be PM it would be helpful if seemed to know something other than soundbites. We currently have a soundbite specialist occupying No 10.
I am not convinced that motherhood would have sorted out Mrs May's supposed lack of sociability / empathy / whatever. Gender stereotypes are generalisations and so they have exceptions. There are plenty of unsociable mothers out there. Heck - I know a few myself...
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a thing, but it's not a solid pattern. Obviously, the country as a whole has surged pro-Tory, anti-Tory, and pro-Tory since then, so that cycle is overlaid on it, but while the cohorts from 1933 births to 1962 births do seem to follow very similar patterns, the 1971 births onwards seem to be creating a new pattern. The 1966 birth cohort could go either way, but seem to be weakly following their predecessors.
They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
I'm surprised you freely admit to being a petrified and senile Rik from The Young Ones. Although you blatantly are one.
More Neil but less hairy, but being Rik is better that than being Alan B'stard!
On which note the excellent comedy "White Gold" is useful nostalgia for Eighties attitudes.
Yes I enjoyed 'White Gold' too especially as I now live in Essex, last episode last night but it is still on iPlayer
Why do you say that if there is no deal there is a 'car crash'? I have told you the figure for WTO tariffs on UK goods. The UK could offer to reimburse UK exporters for any EU tariffs, apply zero tariffs on EU imports and financially the UK would be £5 billion a year ahead and nothing much would have changed, except prices of non-EU imports to the UK consumers would fall and therefore UK citizens would be better off.
We should not do this however, because the EU needs to treat the UK with respect. Free trade is free, not free on whatever the EU want it to be and costing the UK on everything else. We should only do a deal if it is in our financial interests, and that means we want decent access to sell services into the EU.
Seems to me you are just determined to kowtow to the EU.
Why on Earth would you offer £20 billion a year to get tariff free access to the single market when the total tariffs that would be payable under WTO for our exports is about £5 billion a year? Not including of course the larger amount of tariffs that would be payable to us on EU imports?
You would be better off writing a cheque for UK companies and keeping the remaining £5 billion from our current contributions.
That's what I am talking about with marketing. What the EU really wants is money. Fine. We offer to double our current contributions to £20 billion a year net. And make a big splash about it. Now we are interesting to them.
It's been a long conversation. The starting point is whether we want a meaningful deal or a car crash. It's up to us persuade the other side in ways that are compelling to them, so they give us what we want, which roughly speaking is continuity and ongoing influence. Money is one thing they want Another is respect for the EU as an institution. That wouldn't cost us anything. It would be things like working with the EU Army, co-ordinating with the EU on diplomacy, Russian sanctions, votes in the UN etc. That would give us kudos with Germany, which is a powerful player, NL and liberal nordics. Treating East European citizens as first rather then second class. The DExEU proposal is detrimental for that. The East Europeans have lots of votes in the EU. If we offer money, respect for the EU as an institution and a welcome to EU citizens, we would have a good negotiating position in my view
No they can't reimburse tariffs - it's against WTO rules.
Mr. Tyson, doubt it'll start from the centre right. The Conservatives are in government and have more to lose, and whilst they're not taken with May, she isn't far right in the way Corbyn is far left.
A new mostly PLP party could've taken from the Lib Dems and some left Con MPs, though.
Do you think the Tories will walk into an election like 1997 again? Five years is a long, long, long time...particularly when you are saddled with a party that is so toxic that you couldn't even name it in the last election...and now running a weak Govt....
As said, I think many of you Tories are completely out of touch and do not realise what a catastrophic and existential state your party is in.....
Just think if Corbyn had won an extra 7 seats or so...the pressure would be on the other foot...but that narrow victory may prove to be the undoing of the Tory party...
It was absolutely the best possible result for Labour - Tories own Brexit, the Economy, the Hung Parliament, the whole f*cking mess. Meanwhile JC can tempt the public with all manner of delicious goodies safe in the knowledge that he's not going to have to deliver any time soon.
This situation won't last forever but while it does, every day is Christmas Day for Team Corbyn.
Obviously I completely agree....the absolute best result for Labour was a minority Tory Govt, especially one that has to go into coalition with the DUP for all the reasons you said.. When I saw that exit poll I went absolutely bonkers...I was at Wembley when Dickov equalised against Gillingham in the 95 minute, or when Aguerroooooooo scored against QPR in the last minute, kind of felt like that.
Doubtless you have had some very memorable and enjoyable moments on the horses that have delighted you...how did that exit poll compare?
I just laughed out loud.
I love your dog by the way. Sorry we missed each other in Broxtowe 2015.
Thanks. She's a real sweetie. Got her from The Dogs Trust about two years ago. She had a few issues but they're ironed out now and she's about as perfectly calm and confident as a dog can get.
Is that Tuscany in the photo? I loved it when I was there but I get to spend a lot of time in the Cotswolds now, which in many ways is similar. It's cooler, and the wine isn't so cheap, but there are other compensations, like frinstance the easy access to numerous national hunt tracks. :-)
Nothing. DUP support could have been taken for granted without the bung. As anyone with any idea of how the DUP view Corbyn could have told may weeks ago.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
It really, really wasn't (apart from the weather, which was rather nice in '76!). Believe me, I was there.
When Maggie famously spoke on entry to No 10 ( "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth"), the country was quite exceptionally divided, at war with itself, riven by class prejudice, and totally obsessed with a zero-sum game Them vs Us attitude. When she left office, all that had gone - for example, all those management-only canteens had virtually disappeared from British industry. The idea that she was divisive is totally laughable, it was the diametric opposite - but I guess you were of the age that lapped up the propaganda from her opponents.
Well if they restore direct rule and the DUP lose their additional funding bonus by not being the ones to administer it I'd guess things will be stormy.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
Off topic, but if there is anybody reading this that has access to Labour in Sheffield: WTF are you doing, chopping down 120 year old Huntingdon Elm trees in Nether Edge? Stop being twats and keep the tree on Chelsea Road, that supports a colony of the nationally declining white-letter hairstreak butterfly.
You are happy enough to scream at Tories about their pro-hunting stance - then you go and do this. Hypocrites. Just stop.
'In the Commons Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has just announced that the government will fund abortions for women coming to have them in England from Northern Ireland (where access to abortion is highly restricted).
He said the details would be set out in a letter to MPs from Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities (as well as education secretary).
This should avert the prospect of the government being defeated. The concession may persuade Stella Creasy to withdraw her amendment entirely.'
Grenfell judge says preliminary report 'hopefully within a year. Not going to sit well with residents and locals
That's not too bad considering how long more reports/enquries can take in this country...
True but he's also saying his remit doesn't seem to cover whatt residents will want it to and other inquiries may be required for this. Realism versus expectation here with realism winning but not being popular.
As companies look for ways to cut costs, Seattle's $15 minimum wage law may be hurting hourly workers instead of helping them, according to a new report.
As part of the UK I'm surprised women in Northern Ireland can get free automatic healthcare (including abortions) anywhere in the UK anyway?
I was thinking about this earlier. People in Wales can use the NHS in England and vice versa. Seems odd to me, but in that case I guess there are cases where the closest hospital is across the border. I guess money flows with the people too.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
Running a newspaper must be easier than he thought.
Evening Standard editor and former chancellor George Osborne has just added a sixth job to his portfolio. He is to become an honorary professor of economics at the University of Manchester, an email to staff this morning revealed.
It develops his work on the Northern Powerhouse, an attempt to rebalance the economy away from London that he initiated three years ago.
His fellow architects Lord O’Neill, the ex Goldman Sachs economist, and Sir Howard Bernstein, former Manchester city council boss, are also honorary professors. The job mainly involves giving a few lectures a year.
Mr Osborne, former MP for Tatton in Cheshire, remains chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, a business lobby group he set up to boost the northern economy.
He also makes lucrative after-dinner speeches around the world for the Washington Speaker’s Bureau, and remains an advisor to the American fund management firm Blackrock, for which he is said to earn £650,000 annually for working one day a week
He will join a long list of distinguished economists at Manchester. Starting from Stanley Jevons and including Nobel laureates John Hicks, Arthur Lewis, and Joseph Stiglitz. Slade, BA (Econ) Manc.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
If everyone was in absolute poverty a country would have an excellent Gini coefficient too
Seems almost rational. After all, May has lowered the bar rather a lot...
The bar can only get lower if buried underground. I remember Ms Leadsom's last attempt and she came across as utterly, utterly clueless. She appeared to do nothing other than spout vacuous soundbites. It was incredible that anyone thought she was a contender.
Amber Rudd may have a majority of only 346 but she would be a better choice. I am struggling to think of other candidates.
Better to wait. There are quite a few promising individuals who could become contenders over next couple of years. An emergency election would require immediate stick with May or MP's agree replacem,ent decision though. Replacing May now would enhance pressure for an early elaction.
You see someone getting their head smashed in with a shovel... And your first reaction to the aftermath is not to try and help the person that's been critically inured but to get your phone out and start filming it?
You see someone getting their head smashed in with a shovel... And your first reaction to the aftermath is not to try and help the person that's been critically inured but to get your phone out and start filming it?
Why on Earth would you offer £20 billion a year to get tariff free access to the single market when the total tariffs that would be payable under WTO for our exports is about £5 billion a year? Not including of course the larger amount of tariffs that would be payable to us on EU imports?
You would be better off writing a cheque for UK companies and keeping the remaining £5 billion from our current contributions.
Other EU nations have already put controls on FoM unlike the UK, there is no reason we cannot impose the same controls they did
We can do what we want, but it doesn't help us get the deal. Other EU countries are in the EU and and don't need a deal. In addition they can use internal mechanisms to get what they want. We're just not in the necessary mindset of doing a sales job on the EU. They get to decide and need to be wooed.
Yet today the EU is saying they will lose 12% of their budget if they get no continued payments from the UK, they want a deal too just one not completely incompatible with single market rules
That's what I am talking about with marketing. What the EU really wants is money. Fine. We offer to double our current contributions to £20 billion a year net. And make a big splash about it. Now we are interesting to them.
It's been a long conversation. The starting point is whether we want a meaningful deal or a car crash. It's up to us persuade the other side in ways that are compelling to them, so they give us what we want, which roughly speaking is continuity and ongoing influence. Money is one thing they want Another is respect for the EU as an institution. That wouldn't cost us anything. It would be things like working with the EU Army, co-ordinating with the EU on diplomacy, Russian sanctions, votes in the UN etc. That would give us kudos with Germany, which is a powerful player, NL and liberal nordics. Treating East European citizens as first rather then second class. The DExEU proposal is detrimental for that. The East Europeans have lots of votes in the EU. If we offer money, respect for the EU as an institution and a welcome to EU citizens, we would have a good negotiating position in my view
All fine in theory but continued big payments to the EU and no free movement controls at all will be no Brexit at all for most Leave voters and a gift to UKIP, we cannot get everything we want certainly but that does not mean we capitulate at the first hurdle either
That's why we will get a crap outcome. We are negotiating with ourselves rather than with those we need to sell to.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
If everyone was in absolute poverty a country would have an excellent Gini coefficient too
Lenty of people did well in the eighties, but many were sidelined, particularly away from the SE. Some of those did alright in the end, but many still despised the Tories. That seems to have worn off a little in Scotland, but I speculate that many will instinctively keep their mistrust of the Tories into their old age. Mrs Thatcher never beat her 1979 voteshare, and that was only 43%. The majority were against her, and even more so for the young (who are now middle aged).
Why on Earth would you offer £20 billion a year to get tariff free access to the single market when the total tariffs that would be payable under WTO for our exports is about £5 billion a year? Not including of course the larger amount of tariffs that would be payable to us on EU imports?
You would be better off writing a cheque for UK companies and keeping the remaining £5 billion from our current contributions.
Other EU nations have already put controls on FoM unlike the UK, there is no reason we cannot impose the same controls they did
We can do what we want, but it doesn't help us get the deal. Other EU countries are in the EU and and don't need a deal. In addition they can use internal mechanisms to get what they want. We're just not in the necessary mindset of doing a sales job on the EU. They get to decide and need to be wooed.
Yet today the EU is saying they will lose 12% of their budget if they get no continued payments from the UK, they want a deal too just one not completely incompatible with single market rules
That's what I am talking about with marketing. What the EU really wants is money. Fine. We offer to double our current contributions to £20 billion a year net. And make a big splash about it. Now we are interesting to them.
It's been a long conversation. The starting point is whether we want a meaningful deal or a car crash. It's up to us persuade the other side in ways that are compelling to them, so they give us what we want, which roughly speaking is continuity and ongoing influence. Money is one thing then second class. The DExEU proposal is detrimental for that. The East Europeans have lots of votes in the EU. If we offer money, respect for the EU as an institution and a welcome to EU citizens, we would have a good negotiating position in my view
All fine in theory but continued big payments to the EU and no free movement controls at all will be no Brexit at all for most Leave voters and a gift to UKIP, we cannot get everything we want certainly but that does not mean we capitulate at the first hurdle either
That's why we will get a crap outcome. We are negotiating with ourselves rather than with those we need to sell to.
As I said before trying to get some version of transition controls on free movement is by far the best position and has already been proved to be compatible with single market membership
Lenty of people did well in the eighties, but many were sidelined, particularly away from the SE. Some of those did alright in the end, but many still despised the Tories. That seems to have worn off a little in Scotland, but I speculate that many will instinctively keep their mistrust of the Tories into their old age. Mrs Thatcher never beat her 1979 voteshare, and that was only 43%. The majority were against her, and even more so for the young (who are now middle aged).
Interestingly after her death there was polling done and the public perception of her / her time in power wasn't anywhere near as negative (or as the BBC put it divisive) as one would think.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising ecord.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
If everyone was in absolute poverty a country would have an excellent Gini coefficient too
Lenty of people did well in the eighties, but many were sidelined, particularly away from the SE. Some of those did alright in the end, but many still despised the Tories. That seems to have worn off a little in Scotland, but I speculate that many will instinctively keep their mistrust of the Tories into their old age. Mrs Thatcher never beat her 1979 voteshare, and that was only 43%. The majority were against her, and even more so for the young (who are now middle aged).
Pollsters have shown most SDP voters would have voted for Thatcher over Foot and Kinnock
Why do you say that if there is no deal there is a 'car crash'? I have told you the figure for WTO tariffs on UK goods. The UK could offer to reimburse UK exporters for any EU tariffs, apply zero tariffs on EU imports and financially the UK would be £5 billion a year ahead and nothing much would have changed, except prices of non-EU imports to the UK consumers would fall and therefore UK citizens would be better off.
We should not do this however, because the EU needs to treat the UK with respect. Free trade is free, not free on whatever the EU want it to be and costing the UK on everything else. We should only do a deal if it is in our financial interests, and that means we want decent access to sell services into the EU.
Seems to me you are just determined to kowtow to the EU.
You're picking a fight. If I want to sell someone on a plan, I try to see things from their point of view and understand what their needs are, so I can present a package that is attractive to them. That's not kowtowing. You still negotiate. There may be a deal or there may not. If we offer more, we expect more back. We have our demands that need to be met. If control over immigration is one, can we do that in such a way that we are still seen to welcome citizens from Europe on an equal basis, which is the real issue for them?
Just listened to Sarah Wollaston interviewed on the BBC over the decision by the chancellor to fund abortions for Northern Ireland women by the English and Welsh NHS and that she and many cross party members had been lobbying the government over this for a while and that she was really pleased that the government had listened. She also said that the NHS pay freeze does need to be reviewed and that she is confident that the government will address the issue once the pay review bodies report this autumn
She said that for each 1% pay rise in the NHS half a billion pounds would be needed and she added that if, as likely, the whole public sector is involved it would cost much more and a debate on how it is funded needs to be had. She said that labour’s idea that only the wealthy would have to pay more tax is disingenuous and that all of us will need to contribute a bit more to sustain these increases.
She was asked if the back benchers feel empowered and she indicated that now is the time for much more consensus and that agreement on legislation should take place before it is detailed to the HOC.
Following that interview Stella Creasy was interviewed over her amendment to the QS re abortion and she was pleased that the Government had conceded and that it was the result of cross party support. She said that she had told her constituents in the GE that she would vote to stay in the single market and that she would back Chuka Umunna’s amendment to the QS to stay in the single market in defiance of labour's demand to abstain on Chuka’s amendment
The two conversations were quite uplifting and if indeed we can see much more consensus we could just get a government for the national interest. It does look like Corbyn may have more of a problem tonight than the government
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
If everyone was in absolute poverty a country would have an excellent Gini coefficient too
Lenty of people did well in the eighties, but many were sidelined, particularly away from the SE. Some of those did alright in the end, but many still despised the Tories. That seems to have worn off a little in Scotland, but I speculate that many will instinctively keep their mistrust of the Tories into their old age. Mrs Thatcher never beat her 1979 voteshare, and that was only 43%. The majority were against her, and even more so for the young (who are now middle aged).
Your recent obsession with Thatcher suggests that you're in the midst of a male climacteric.
Clearly even former Beeboid (his words) thinks it is a f##king mad decision. What is extra weird is how much the BBC were so appalled by all the Fake News in the POTUS election, now they are inviting the British equivalent onto QT.
Mrs Thatcher introduced right to buy which did more than anything else to distort the property market.
You preferred the previous apartheid system?
No idea what you mean by that tbh.
Giving people 60% discount on a property is hardly the work of the free marketeer Mrs T professed to be. Until that time a property was something you lived in as opposed to investing in.
Mrs Thatcher introduced right to buy which did more than anything else to distort the property market.
You preferred the previous apartheid system?
Apartheid. A strong word, go on - explain..
The system whereby one class lived in protected council tenancies at one end of town, and homeowners in a different part of town, and those in the former category were stuck in that category for ever.
As I said earlier - it was a much more divided society, and the division was much more entrenched, before Maggie.
I see the NI abortion amendment will be up for a vote.
Good job the DUP won't be toxifying the Tories there then.
Most people see abortion as a necessary evil within the existing time limit, not something that must be promoted to avoid 'toxification'
Bet most people don't know women in NI can be prosecuted for having an abortion.
They can here too without a doctor confirming they need it for health reasons
How many people in mainland UK have been prosecuted for having an abortion vs those in NI.
The DUP are not trying to change abortion law on the mainland just protect it in NI where they have a majority
But the VAST majority of people disagree with them on gay marriage and abortion.
The thing is that most people here are single issue voters. Totally. I know of gay people who vote DUP. Incredible that that might seem.
Presumably those people will welcome the DUP getting the pork barrel for NI whilst their religious stand receives no concessions from the Conservatives?
I see the NI abortion amendment will be up for a vote.
Good job the DUP won't be toxifying the Tories there then.
Most people see abortion as a necessary evil within the existing time limit, not something that must be promoted to avoid 'toxification'
Bet most people don't know women in NI can be prosecuted for having an abortion.
They can here too without a doctor confirming they need it for health reasons
How many people in mainland UK have been prosecuted for having an abortion vs those in NI.
The DUP are not trying to change abortion law on the mainland just protect it in NI where they have a majority
But the VAST majority of people disagree with them on gay marriage and abortion.
The thing is that most people here are single issue voters. Totally. I know of gay people who vote DUP. Incredible that that might seem.
Do they though? Many Catholics in NI will agree with the DUP on gay marriage and abortion if nothing else. Northern Ireland is one of the most socially conservative places in Europe
Mrs Thatcher introduced right to buy which did more than anything else to distort the property market.
You preferred the previous apartheid system?
Apartheid. A strong word, go on - explain..
The system whereby one class lived in protected council tenancies at one end of town, and homeowners in a different part of town, and those in the former category were stuck in that category for ever.
Well not really. The council tenants could have saved their pennies if they were so inclined and purchased a property on the market like the rest of the population. Anyway its pretty much all gone now, and we have a different "apartheid" system with private tenants and landlords, and there is no 'right to buy' there.
I see the NI abortion amendment will be up for a vote.
Good job the DUP won't be toxifying the Tories there then.
Most people see abortion as a necessary evil within the existing time limit, not something that must be promoted to avoid 'toxification'
Bet most people don't know women in NI can be prosecuted for having an abortion.
They can here too without a doctor confirming they need it for health reasons
How many people in mainland UK have been prosecuted for having an abortion vs those in NI.
The DUP are not trying to change abortion law on the mainland just protect it in NI where they have a majority
But the VAST majority of people disagree with them on gay marriage and abortion.
The thing is that most people here are single issue voters. Totally. I know of gay people who vote DUP. Incredible that that might seem.
Do they though? Many Catholics in NI will agree with the DUP on gay marriage and abortion if nothing else. Northern Ireland is one of the most socially conservative places in Europe
The only parties with liberal views on abortion in NI are Alliance, People before Profit, and the Greens.
When people hold A4 papers in an A5 pad, you have to assume they want you to see what they have written.
The alternative is to assume that the person is thick as pig shit. Who doesn't know how to fold a sheet of A4 in half. And they wouldn't want that, would they?
Mrs Thatcher introduced right to buy which did more than anything else to distort the property market.
You preferred the previous apartheid system?
Apartheid. A strong word, go on - explain..
The system whereby one class lived in protected council tenancies at one end of town, and homeowners in a different part of town, and those in the former category were stuck in that category for ever.
As I said earlier - it was a much more divided society, and the division was much more entrenched, before Maggie.
Problem is the people in the former now complain there is no social housing and they're priced out of the market.
I'm happy to discuss whether or not it was a good idea but it is indisputable that the market was hugely distorted
Well not really. The council tenants could have saved their pennies if they were so inclined and purchased a property on the market like the rest of the population..
Most of them had no chance of doing that, and, even if they did, it would still mean a sharp division between those who got out and those who didn't.
In terms of reducing entrenched inequality, the right-to-buy was perhaps the most successful policy since the second world war.
I've spent a while playing around with the demographic data from Mori's long-running series on "How Britain Voted", and used it to create cohorts that were 21 years old for each election as it came (the centre of the 18-24 range) and used interpolation to follow them across the elections from 1974 (October) to 2017.
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
Would you rather live in a country where everyone had £1, or in one where everyone had £2, apart from one bloke who had £100?
Well not really. The council tenants could have saved their pennies if they were so inclined and purchased a property on the market like the rest of the population..
Most of them had no chance of doing that, and, even if they did, it would still mean a sharp division between those who got out and those who didn't.
In terms of reducing entrenched inequality, the right-to-buy was perhaps the most successful policy since the second world war.
Mmmmh the income multiples required in London suggest otherwise
Comments
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
We will soon find out whether Brokenshire has balls. My guess is not.
I am not convinced that motherhood would have sorted out Mrs May's supposed lack of sociability / empathy / whatever. Gender stereotypes are generalisations and so they have exceptions. There are plenty of unsociable mothers out there. Heck - I know a few myself...
Is that Tuscany in the photo? I loved it when I was there but I get to spend a lot of time in the Cotswolds now, which in many ways is similar. It's cooler, and the wine isn't so cheap, but there are other compensations, like frinstance the easy access to numerous national hunt tracks. :-)
When Maggie famously spoke on entry to No 10 ( "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth"), the country was quite exceptionally divided, at war with itself, riven by class prejudice, and totally obsessed with a zero-sum game Them vs Us attitude. When she left office, all that had gone - for example, all those management-only canteens had virtually disappeared from British industry. The idea that she was divisive is totally laughable, it was the diametric opposite - but I guess you were of the age that lapped up the propaganda from her opponents.
You are happy enough to scream at Tories about their pro-hunting stance - then you go and do this. Hypocrites. Just stop.
Thank you.
You really should pick better similies ....
'In the Commons Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has just announced that the government will fund abortions for women coming to have them in England from Northern Ireland (where access to abortion is highly restricted).
He said the details would be set out in a letter to MPs from Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities (as well as education secretary).
This should avert the prospect of the government being defeated. The concession may persuade Stella Creasy to withdraw her amendment entirely.'
Well done to Stella Creasey
I can't get my head around that at all.
Will Chukka get any movement on his amendment
Edited extra bit: Vettel has a 3 July hearing. Button wants no further punishment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40444283
https://mspoweruser.com/london-metropolitan-polices-18000-windows-xp-pcs-is-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/27/report-finds-seattles-15-minimum-wage-may-hurting-workers/431424001/
Good job the DUP won't be toxifying the Tories there then.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iNw1_WobmzjWxKMeF_X2_FQNbpFCTMyUys-xj5AK6ec/edit#gid=0
Slade, BA (Econ) Manc.
Who knew!!!!
#CrazyAmericans
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/29/us-woman-shoots-boyfriend-dead-youtube-stunt-boost-online-profile/
At least one person helped out but still...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/29/m25-murderarmy-veteran-tells-tried-save-man-beaten-death-shovel/
#CrazyBrits
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/880393351345967105
That's a peculiar sense of perspective.
It would seem that revenge is indeed a dish served cold
.
https://twitter.com/J_Bloodworth/status/880395427807408129
She said that for each 1% pay rise in the NHS half a billion pounds would be needed and she added that if, as likely, the whole public sector is involved it would cost much more and a debate on how it is funded needs to be had. She said that labour’s idea that only the wealthy would have to pay more tax is disingenuous and that all of us will need to contribute a bit more to sustain these increases.
She was asked if the back benchers feel empowered and she indicated that now is the time for much more consensus and that agreement on legislation should take place before it is detailed to the HOC.
Following that interview Stella Creasy was interviewed over her amendment to the QS re abortion and she was pleased that the Government had conceded and that it was the result of cross party support. She said that she had told her constituents in the GE that she would vote to stay in the single market and that she would back Chuka Umunna’s amendment to the QS to stay in the single market in defiance of labour's demand to abstain on Chuka’s amendment
The two conversations were quite uplifting and if indeed we can see much more consensus we could just get a government for the national interest. It does look like Corbyn may have more of a problem tonight than the government
It's - strange.
The well-recorded "people get more Tory as they get older" does seem to be a
They seem more variable (swingy) than before, and net more anti-Tory than their predecessors at similar ages, as well as resisting the pro-Tory push.
This is only very weak and preliminary conclusions taken from looking at the graph overlaying all of them - and the 2017 election could cause a significant part of this due to the unprecedented age divergence involved.
Anyone born from 1933 to 1962 will have memories of the Winter of discontent and old Labour governments unlike anyone born from 1971
Anyone my age or younger came of age at the height of Thatcherism and a very divisive and socially conservative time that was. Pop culture was quite alternative with punk and indy music as well as alternative comedy.
Many of us have a deep dislike of the Tories as a result, and I dont think that will lessen over time.
Thatcher of course only got elected because the previous Labour government oversaw permanent strikes, falling gdp per capita, rising inflation and a country heading for bankruptcy
The 1970's had their problems, but it was a time of rising prosperity for average Britons, and a time where our Gini coefficient improved significantly.
The average Brit had a significant rise in standard of living over the decade, and 1976 was the happiest year on record.
In GDP per capita terms though in 1979 the UK had one of the lowest in Western Europe but by 1990 one of the highest, we were not called 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s for nothing
But a far higher Gini coefficient. That GDP was not evenly spread.
If everyone was in absolute poverty a country would have an excellent Gini coefficient too
Lenty of people did well in the eighties, but many were sidelined, particularly away from the SE. Some of those did alright in the end, but many still despised the Tories. That seems to have worn off a little in Scotland, but I speculate that many will instinctively keep their mistrust of the Tories into their old age. Mrs Thatcher never beat her 1979 voteshare, and that was only 43%. The majority were against her, and even more so for the young (who are now middle aged).
Your recent obsession with Thatcher suggests that you're in the midst of a male climacteric.
The thing is that most people here are single issue voters. Totally. I know of gay people who vote DUP. Incredible that that might seem.
I'm just surprised to pick on his grammar rather than a bloke who has permanently disfigured a young girl.
Seems like that's it. We can go home and prepare for, erm, another bloody round of talks.
Please Mr Brokenshire, put this place out of its misery.
Giving people 60% discount on a property is hardly the work of the free marketeer Mrs T professed to be. Until that time a property was something you lived in as opposed to investing in.
As I said earlier - it was a much more divided society, and the division was much more entrenched, before Maggie.
Anyway its pretty much all gone now, and we have a different "apartheid" system with private tenants and landlords, and there is no 'right to buy' there.
The alternative is to assume that the person is thick as pig shit. Who doesn't know how to fold a sheet of A4 in half. And they wouldn't want that, would they?
I'm happy to discuss whether or not it was a good idea but it is indisputable that the market was hugely distorted
In terms of reducing entrenched inequality, the right-to-buy was perhaps the most successful policy since the second world war.