Yes another example of their balanced reporting. They're covering his trip to Tesco tomorrow while he does his weekly shop! I see Armed forces day is not even in their headlines section.
Fear not! the blessed Jezziah has raised awareness of AFD:
Word for remainers who support Labour because they believe that JC must be one as well really because he's a good person; Corb-IN-ites (with a definite pause after the corb), or Jeremainers?
a Leaver who doesn't see Brexit as a slash and burn attack on workers rights and environmental protections.
Who, in the government is?
May, Boris and Davis have allthreatened to undercut the EU, and JRM has advocated Indian style Health and Safety.
Re the BBC, I am in Indonesia and the BBC is quite extraordinary. At one time the BBC used to spread British values to dark corners of the globe.
That no longer applies today.
Today's articles on the BBC Indonesia Facebook feed include a repost (from 2016!) about a random bloke in Scotland who converted to Islam without meeting any Muslims, how nice it is for a church in Java to cancel its Sunday prayers to allow the Muslims to celebrate Eid, and a repost (from 2016!) on how Ramadan is Jihad according to the massive (!) numbers of white British men (yes only men) converting to Islam. http://www.bbc.com/indonesia/majalah/2016/07/160608_ramadan_convert_cambridgeuniv
I don't really understand why British taxes are needed to fund an Islamic perspective on news in Indonesia when Indonesia has already got numerous Islamic news sources of its own which don't cost the British taxpayer anything.
My thought on workers' rights under Brexit is that while May did agree to protect the status quo she did act it would only be "under her leadership".
I suspect a future Conservative leader might seek to reduce or remove some of these rights or sacrifice them on the imagined altar of competitiveness, efficiency or by effectively telling every worker to make their own contract with their employer.
My thought on workers' rights under Brexit is that while May did agree to protect the status quo she did act it would only be "under her leadership".
I suspect a future Conservative leader might seek to reduce or remove some of these rights or sacrifice them on the imagined altar of competitiveness, efficiency or by effectively telling every worker to make their own contract with their employer.
A nation of Contractors....
Even if this Tory government or the next one do not drastically reduce workers rights, what stops the government after that ?
The EU gives an effective guarantee that a change of government with less than 50% support in the country cannot take a way these fundamental rights.
Also, sad to hear that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
It's not too bad atm, there were quite a few bomb-like fireworks exploding earlier, but they stopped before midnight. Now just the sound of rain on a tin roof.
I don't believe I've ever in my life (39 years) seen such fanatical support for a politician in this country as we're seeing for Chairman Jeremy from much of the left at the moment. It's actually quite worrying when you consider that his right hand man has encouraged direct action to overthrow the government.
Tony Blair?
Tony Blair's popularity was a lot more all-encompassing than Jezza's but I suppose the difference is that those on the right could live with him because they thought he was essentially a one nation Tory who happened to be Lab leader. Where-as Jezza is a proper leftie revolutionary...
I voted for Tony twice, never ever will I vote for Corbyn
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Vince has been talking good sense recently
What has he been saying? If I'm totally honest I haven't looked too closely at any recent statements Vince has said.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Sajid Javid has said 34 tower blocks have failed in 17 authorities.
He is doing a really good job on this. He was very impressive on the news earlier today
I said the same down thread. He seems to have a grip on what is going on, and he wasn't making any excuses of spinning it either, simply telling people all that is being done.
I am impressed by how quick off the mark the BRE have been to plough through a huge number of tests, and it's good that we aren't trusting specifications but actually testing material from every relevant block.
We still need to figure out exactly what went wrong, but I'm now reasonably confident that we will learn a lot of lessons from Grenfall, and more importantly act upon them.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
I hope Davey runs because a contest will be good for both him and Cable. Look at wooden TMay who got a virtual coronation.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
It's more of a working assumption I've made and Davey - unlike Lamb - has not ruled himself out publically. I haven't read any stories reporting that he won't stand either.
If Davey doesn't stand then it's likely to be a coronation for Vince.
I feel like Davey will be Farron MK2. I can't see him leading the LDs to any significant gains in a GE and think that he'll struggle to be heard in this new era of two-party politics. At least Vince is a big name.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Vince has been talking good sense recently
What has he been saying? If I'm totally honest I haven't looked too closely at any recent statements Vince has said.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
He was supporting the 1% tax increase for the NHS but absolutely traducing Corbyn's marxist economics and especially the increases in corporation tax proposed by Cornbyn. If he is in a leaders debate with May/her successor and Corbyn he will demolish Corbyn on economics
Also, sad to hear that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Yes, I confess I was surprised Norman decided not to stand but that's up to him.
So far it's a race with only one runner and that's Vince who most members will support on the basis he will be a caretaker pending the mentoring and preparation of Jo Swinson to take the job in 2019 or 2020.
Fair enough - on the assumption the Conservative Government will stagger on propped up officially or otherwise by the DUP for the foreseeable.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Vince has been talking good sense recently
What has he been saying? If I'm totally honest I haven't looked too closely at any recent statements Vince has said.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
He was supporting the 1%t tax increase for the NHS but absolutely traducing Corbyn's marxist economics. If he is in a leaders debate with May/her successor and Corbyn he will demolish Corbyn on economics
Sajid Javid has said 34 tower blocks have failed in 17 authorities.
He is doing a really good job on this. He was very impressive on the news earlier today
I said the same down thread. He seems to have a grip on what is going on, and he wasn't making any excuses of spinning it either, simply telling people all that is being done.
I am impressed by how quick off the mark the BRE have been to plough through a huge number of tests, and it's good that we aren't trusting specifications but actually testing material from every relevant block.
We still need to figure out exactly what went wrong, but I'm now reasonably confident that we will learn a lot of lessons from Grenfall, and more importantly act upon them.
And all labour contribute is - cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts and repeat endlessly
Sajid Javid has said 34 tower blocks have failed in 17 authorities.
He is doing a really good job on this. He was very impressive on the news earlier today
I said the same down thread. He seems to have a grip on what is going on, and he wasn't making any excuses of spinning it either, simply telling people all that is being done.
I am impressed by how quick off the mark the BRE have been to plough through a huge number of tests, and it's good that we aren't trusting specifications but actually testing material from every relevant block.
We still need to figure out exactly what went wrong, but I'm now reasonably confident that we will learn a lot of lessons from Grenfall, and more importantly act upon them.
One thing I'd like to see after this is the BRE - or someone else - being able to be commissioned to do tests on materials. You're a council commissioning a new building? Take a couple of panels off at random and have them tested. Do it for other materials that might be suspect wrt flammability.
A bit like the mandatory testing of structural concrete.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Ye - Vince is to the left of me too, but I'll have to see what Ed Davey offers before casting my vote. Is Davey definitely running ?
I hope Davey runs because a contest will be good for both him and Cable. Look at wooden TMay who got a virtual coronation.
That only happened by mistake though. The Tory leadership election was like the climax of Reservoir Dogs...
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Vince has been talking good sense recently
What has he been saying? If I'm totally honest I haven't looked too closely at any recent statements Vince has said.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
He was supporting the 1% tax increase for the NHS but absolutely traducing Corbyn's marxist economics and especially the increases in corporation tax proposed by Cornbyn. If he is in a leaders debate with May/her successor and Corbyn he will demolish Corbyn on economics
I'd love to see him take on McDonnell!
It's good to see Vince calling out Corbyneconomics though - he's a voice on the left that Corbynistas cannot easily dismiss in the way they would do with Orange Booker LDs or anyone who isn't on the very Left of the Labour party. Hopefully he can also be a voice for a more softer Brexit too.
@stodge I was shocked to hear Lamb wasn't running as well. It sounded like from his tweets that he was going to push a Soft Brexit line and thought that wouldn't be acceptable to the membership (who may be looking to continue Farron's line on the EU/Brexit). Would love to see Jo Swinson as leader in the future, but it seems she had concerns running for the leadership as a working mum. Her son will still be quite young even in 2019/2020, so I don't know how likely it would be that she'd be comfortable standing then.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Also, sad to here that Norman Lamb isn't standing in the LD leadership contest.
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Vince has been talking good sense recently
What has he been saying? If I'm totally honest I haven't looked too closely at any recent statements Vince has said.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
He was supporting the 1% tax increase for the NHS but absolutely traducing Corbyn's marxist economics and especially the increases in corporation tax proposed by Cornbyn. If he is in a leaders debate with May/her successor and Corbyn he will demolish Corbyn on economics
I'd love to see him take on McDonnell!
It's good to see Vince calling out Corbyneconomics though - he's a voice on the left that Corbynistas cannot easily dismiss in the way they would do with Orange Booker LDs or anyone who isn't on the very Left of the Labour party. Hopefully he can also be a voice for a more softer Brexit too.
@stodge I was shocked to hear Lamb wasn't running as well. It sounded like from his tweets that he was going to push a Soft Brexit line and thought that wouldn't be acceptable to the membership (who may be looking to continue Farron's line on the EU/Brexit). Would love to see Jo Swinson as leader in the future, but it seems she had concerns running for the leadership as a working mum. Her son will still be quite young even in 2019/2020, so I don't know how likely it would be that she'd be comfortable standing then.
Cable v McDonnell would be a disaster for McDonnell but if Cable is leader it will be Corbyn no doubt
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
The Conservatives could lose 100's of Cllrs next year in London alone. Losing 100 is likely.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
@stodge I was shocked to hear Lamb wasn't running as well. It sounded like from his tweets that he was going to push a Soft Brexit line and thought that wouldn't be acceptable to the membership (who may be looking to continue Farron's line on the EU/Brexit). Would love to see Jo Swinson as leader in the future, but it seems she had concerns running for the leadership as a working mum. Her son will still be quite young even in 2019/2020, so I don't know how likely it would be that she'd be comfortable standing then.
Yes, Norman was trying to articulate a line on A50 and Brexit with which he clearly thought a lot of the Party would be uncomfortable.
It's worth repeating that 2/3 of the current LD membership joined AFTER 2015 and around 20% since the EU Referendum. The Party I joined in 1980 died with the Coalition and this new Party isn't one with which I'm wholly comfortable.
I've no problem with the Party campaigning to rejoin the EU though the terms of that re-joining need to be spelt out. The fact is whether we (as a party) like it or not, there was a vote to LEAVE and we have to carry forward that decision.
The terms on which we leave are of critical importance and the unwillingness of May to engage with those outside her Party and Government coupled with the view that whatever gruel is finally dished up in 2019 (which will be praised to the skies by some on here) will have to be accepted or we go off the cliff of WTO rules. There needs to be an option to revisit or extend the negotiation to ensure the best possible deal for the country.
I would also much prefer David Davis to be flanked by Keir Starmer and Vince Cable at the negotiating table.
@stodge I was shocked to hear Lamb wasn't running as well. It sounded like from his tweets that he was going to push a Soft Brexit line and thought that wouldn't be acceptable to the membership (who may be looking to continue Farron's line on the EU/Brexit). Would love to see Jo Swinson as leader in the future, but it seems she had concerns running for the leadership as a working mum. Her son will still be quite young even in 2019/2020, so I don't know how likely it would be that she'd be comfortable standing then.
Yes, Norman was trying to articulate a line on A50 and Brexit with which he clearly thought a lot of the Party would be uncomfortable.
It's worth repeating that 2/3 of the current LD membership joined AFTER 2015 and around 20% since the EU Referendum. The Party I joined in 1980 died with the Coalition and this new Party isn't one with which I'm wholly comfortable.
I've no problem with the Party campaigning to rejoin the EU though the terms of that re-joining need to be spelt out. The fact is whether we (as a party) like it or not, there was a vote to LEAVE and we have to carry forward that decision.
The terms on which we leave are of critical importance and the unwillingness of May to engage with those outside her Party and Government coupled with the view that whatever gruel is finally dished up in 2019 (which will be praised to the skies by some on here) will have to be accepted or we go off the cliff of WTO rules. There needs to be an option to revisit or extend the negotiation to ensure the best possible deal for the country.
I would also much prefer David Davis to be flanked by Keir Starmer and Vince Cable at the negotiating table.
+1 on your thoughts regarding Brexit and the LDs. It's unfortunate in this country that (generally speaking) the membership of political parties aren't really in touch with public opinion. I voted Remain and am not very happy with Brexit but I've accepted that we are leaving.
Cable managing to draw a line as to where his LDs are different from Labour will be fun. It simply can't be the case that we as a nation put forward clowns like Cable, and Corbyn for our greatest roles of state. What on earth is going on?
I really would vote for a Tesco Lemon rather than those two. The Tories are not much better.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
No matter how much of a shoo in he is though, Cable needs a contest for leader. It helps.
Actually, I don't think so with him. I think you know what you'll get with him.
Agreed...you need someone who looks like they enjoy themselves being the center of attention...,.Vince is your man for that....
May was a strange anomaly...someone who wanted all the trappings of the power, but without much of the front facing stuff....May would have made a much better awkward hereditary monarch
I know there's a lot more to free trade than just no tariffs, but if we ended up out of the single market and trade carried say a 5% tariff each way then on. £290bn imports and £230bn exports to the EU and we gained a net £3bn in tariffs, could the govt just pay all the tariff obligations of our exporters and use the other £3bn to help business or the NHS?
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
All those LD reptiles who jumped into bed with the Tories deserve very little respect....Lamb and Cable and Davey...eoghh....but the ginger rodent was the worst. Thank goodness he hasn't made a return....
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
Actually I have never voted for Corbyn as I have made clear in PB a hundred times.
I'd like to thank John Curtis, Michael Thrasher, Colin Rallings, and everyone else involved with the exit polls over the last few elections for producing such accurate figures.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I'd certainly agree on your view of Norman Lamb and hope he will continue to have a high-profile role in the LD team.
Interesting comments from Professor Bogdanor on the asymmetry of Turkey's customs union with the EU. If the EU does a trade deal with a third party that country can sell stuff to Turkey without tariffs but that country can maintain tariffs against Turkey.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
Actually I have never voted for Corbyn as I have made clear in PB a hundred times.
You did support Corbyn Labour's party at the ballot box though.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
I'd like to thank John Curtice, Michael Thrasher, Colin Rallings, and everyone else involved with the exit polls over the last few elections for producing such accurate figures.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
Actually I have never voted for Corbyn as I have made clear in PB a hundred times.
The point though is after an articulate, thought-provoking and interesting statement by Lamb -- you merely responded with a slur, he’s a Tory.
It is fine to criticise the statement or the underlying politics, but you were just derisory and abusive.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
All those LD reptiles who jumped into bed with the Tories deserve very little respect....Lamb and Cable and Davey...eoghh....but the ginger rodent was the worst. Thank goodness he hasn't made a return....
What were the LDs supposed to do, in 2010? I've never understood Labour complaints about the LDs decision to go into coalition with the Tories. The LDs had a choice between some LD policies being implemented in government to no LD policies being implemented.
A rainbow coalition would have never have worked.
A Conservative minority government wouldn't have worked either.
Where we supposed to have a second GE just to please those unhappy with the May 2010 GE result...and another would mostly likely have returned the same result as in May 2010.
And then what? We keep on sending to the public to the polls as minority governments and rainbow coalitions collapse?
The LDs merely took the hand they were dealt. The public chose to make the Conservatives the largest party. Back in 2010 I wasn't happy about that either, but it is what it is.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
All those LD reptiles who jumped into bed with the Tories deserve very little respect....Lamb and Cable and Davey...eoghh....but the ginger rodent was the worst. Thank goodness he hasn't made a return....
What were the LDs supposed to do, in 2010? I've never understood Labour complaints about the LDs decision to go into coalition with the Tories. The LDs had a choice between some LD policies being implemented in government to no LD policies being implemented.
A rainbow coalition would have never have worked.
A Conservative minority government wouldn't have worked either.
Where we supposed to have a second GE just to please those unhappy with the May 2010 GE result...and another would mostly likely have returned the same result as in May 2010.
And then what? We keep on sending to the public to the polls as minority governments and rainbow coalitions collapse?
The LDs merely took the hand they were dealt. The public chose to make the Conservatives the largest party. Back in 2010 I wasn't happy about that either, but it is what it is.
And labour were more worried about who was going to take over from brown, they were never seriously interested in a deal with the lib dems
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You can't run a country like that though. Even if we were to get a Corbyn government, the public is unlikely to agree with everything Corbyn says. And then what? Will Corbynistas decide to lash out at ordinary voters for daring to disagree with them and not mindlessly follow everything he says? In a democracy, we accept that not everyone will agree with us.
Corbynistas appear to want to thought-police everyone.
Duh....a Supply and Confidence was all that was needed in 2010.... The sight of the LD's jettisoning their principles to jump into ministerial cars was perhaps the lowest kind of politics. Sickening. The LD's will forever be aligned to horrible, sickening, maligned cronyism....
And you have have the prospect of Vince Cable taking over.....poetic justice to a party that deserves all it gets quite frankly....
I don't believe I've ever in my life (39 years) seen such fanatical support for a politician in this country as we're seeing for Chairman Jeremy from much of the left at the moment. It's actually quite worrying when you consider that his right hand man has encouraged direct action to overthrow the government.
I don't believe I've ever in my life (39 years) seen such fanatical support for a politician in this country as we're seeing for Chairman Jeremy from much of the left at the moment. It's actually quite worrying when you consider that his right hand man has encouraged direct action to overthrow the government.
Tony Blair?
He was more popular poll wise at his peak, but I don't remember any Tony Blair chanting. This Jeremania is something else..
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You are a rentier abusing your privileged position to take advantage of the poor and disadvantaged. You will be first against the wall come the Corbynist revolution.
Hmm. Prof Bogdanor says that for Brexit to work we need to pursue unilateral economic liberalism and free trade. He then says that this contradicts the reasons why people voted for Brexit. He says people were lashing out at globalisation.
I think that's wrong. People looked at our membership of the EU and decided that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs. Membership of the EU, in my opinion, is a barrier to economic liberalism and comes with the frankly bizarre devotion to free movement of people between member states.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You can't run a country like that though. Even if we were to get a Corbyn government, the public is unlikely to agree with everything Corbyn says. And then what? Will Corbynistas decide to lash out at ordinary voters for daring to disagree with them and not mindlessly follow everything he says? In a democracy, we accept that not everyone will agree with us.
Corbynistas appear to want to thought-police everyone.
But Corbyn has been so maligned by the right, and people like me who thought he would lead the party into destruction...that he deserves his place in the sun and now set his own terms...
At least I'm all aboard the good ship Corbyn...there are still loads of places for the likes of you and the many others who believe in social justice, equality and progressive politics....
Sajid Javid has said 34 tower blocks have failed in 17 authorities.
He is doing a really good job on this. He was very impressive on the news earlier today
I said the same down thread. He seems to have a grip on what is going on, and he wasn't making any excuses of spinning it either, simply telling people all that is being done.
I am impressed by how quick off the mark the BRE have been to plough through a huge number of tests, and it's good that we aren't trusting specifications but actually testing material from every relevant block.
We still need to figure out exactly what went wrong, but I'm now reasonably confident that we will learn a lot of lessons from Grenfall, and more importantly act upon them.
One thing I'd like to see after this is the BRE - or someone else - being able to be commissioned to do tests on materials. You're a council commissioning a new building? Take a couple of panels off at random and have them tested. Do it for other materials that might be suspect wrt flammability.
A bit like the mandatory testing of structural concrete.
Makes a huge amount of sense - but with the crappy cladding we're talking about, all you'd need to do is cut a bit of the core out with a penknife and hold it over a cigarette lighter.
(I did the same with some FR Kingspan panelling once, just to check it was flame resistant. It was.)
Duh....a Supply and Confidence was all that was needed in 2010.... The sight of the LD's jettisoning their principles to jump into ministerial cars was perhaps the lowest kind of politics. Sickening. The LD's will forever be aligned to horrible, sickening, maligned cronyism....
And you have have the prospect of Vince Cable taking over.....poetic justice to a party that deserves all it gets quite frankly....
Supply and Confidence means that every vote aside from Queen Speech's speech is knife and edge vote and the government would have been unlikely to have been able to do much. In that case another GE would have been inevitable and the same scenario that I outlined in my previous post applies.
Re the LDs principles - the LDs have always been proponents of PR and coalition politics....thus getting into a coalition with the hope of electoral reform was hardly 'jettisoning' their principles.
The way you're talking I'd believe Labour are perfect....no. All the parties are flawed in some way. You could easily say Labour are the party that sold out their principles in regard to Iraq and cosying up to Bush, the GOP and Murdoch. The former of which is far worse than anything the LDs did in coalition. Or even in regard to Corbyn and his support for Hugo Chavez and going on RT and Iranian State TV. That's pretty morally problematic. And let's not even talk about John McDonnell, a Marxist....
Cable is hardly the worst thing that could happen to the LDs. That was Farron - and they somehow managed to gain seats under him!
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You are a rentier abusing your privileged position to take advantage of the poor and disadvantaged. You will be first against the wall come the Corbynist revolution.
Hmm. Prof Bogdanor says that for Brexit to work we need to pursue unilateral economic liberalism and free trade. He then says that this contradicts the reasons why people voted for Brexit. He says people were lashing out at globalisation.
I think that's wrong. People looked at our membership of the EU and decided that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs. Membership of the EU, in my opinion, is a barrier to economic liberalism and comes with the frankly bizarre devotion to free movement of people between member states.
It's not bizarre if you are building a United States of Europe. Somebody from Wisconsin is entirely free to go to New Mexico. That was - and still is the aim.
The corollary - that was never explained to the British people and therefore never bought into - was that the first step to that is you can no longer control who comes into your borders, meaning you can no longer realistically call yourself a nation state.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You are a rentier abusing your privileged position to take advantage of the poor and disadvantaged. You will be first against the wall come the Corbynist revolution.
Mate...I rent out two high value properties, one of which I lived in for many years and intend return to....and the other I will sell when my long term tenant leaves....But, that said, I accept that is quite unacceptable that people like me have been able to make a comfortable living through doing very little....Things must change and they will.
On the positive side, your pathetic Brexit is never going to happen comrade IMO.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You are a rentier abusing your privileged position to take advantage of the poor and disadvantaged. You will be first against the wall come the Corbynist revolution.
Mate...I rent out two high value properties, one of which I lived in for many years and intend return to....and the other I will sell when my long term tenant leaves....But, that said, I accept that is quite unacceptable that people like me have been able to make a comfortable living through doing very little....Things must change and they will.
On the positive side, your pathetic Brexit is never going to happen comrade IMO.
That is not consistent with what you have told us before about your rental portfolio.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
Corbynistas vary, just like any other group. I know lots, but can only think of two who correspond to your stereotype, which actually rather resembles the way they describe Tories as "all the same". With respect, PB works better when we don't generalise about each other.
But while at present I know what Corbyn's Labour is for, while the purpose of Conservatives (to stop Corbyn and get some unspecified kind of Brexit?) and the LibDems (another referendum and...?) is largely shrouded in mystery. That was ALSO true of Labour in 2010 - speaking as a candidate, it was all about "stop the Tories". I think that the explosion of youth interest in Corbyn is that he's brought idealism back into fashion - the Tories will be making a mistake if they think that just addressing tuition fees will make much differemnce.
Hmm. Prof Bogdanor says that for Brexit to work we need to pursue unilateral economic liberalism and free trade. He then says that this contradicts the reasons why people voted for Brexit. He says people were lashing out at globalisation.
I think that's wrong. People looked at our membership of the EU and decided that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs. Membership of the EU, in my opinion, is a barrier to economic liberalism and comes with the frankly bizarre devotion to free movement of people between member states.
It's not bizarre if you are building a United States of Europe. Somebody from Wisconsin is entirely free to go to New Mexico. That was - and still is the aim.
The corollary - that was never explained to the British people and therefore never bought into - was that the first step to that is you can no longer control who comes into your borders, meaning you can no longer realistically call yourself a nation state.
I was going to put a footnote to that effect, but thought I'd play it with a straight bat!
Anyway Prof Bogdanor thinks we might not leave. He says that Labour did well to present a vision for Soft Brexit. I respect the guy, but I think Jezza was pretty clear in wanting the UK to leave the Single Market.
One thing I'd like to see after this is the BRE - or someone else - being able to be commissioned to do tests on materials. You're a council commissioning a new building? Take a couple of panels off at random and have them tested. Do it for other materials that might be suspect wrt flammability.
A bit like the mandatory testing of structural concrete.
Totally agree with that. There's no point setting standards if nobody is properly checking they are adhered to, and that means actual testing not just checking documents.
Looks like the lib dems are never going to have the leader they need. Norman Lamb is a top MP and reaches out to many
Conservative partisans always say the LDs have the wrong leader - apparently Labour always has the wrong leader as well.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
Can you tell me when I have ever said the lib dems have the wrong leader. I have no problem with Vince Cable but Norman Lamb is excellent on social care and very sensible on most things. As far as labour is concerned I voted for Blair twice so your first sentence is an assumption that is not born out by facts
I thought Norman Lamb was a Tory.
It seems anyone who dares to have politics even marginally different from Jeremy Corbyn is considered to be a Tory by Corbynistas. To them, the words Conservative and Blairite have lost any coherent meaning. 'Tory' and 'Blairite' now simply mean 'anyone that I don't like' for Corbynistas.
As a new convert to Saint Jeremiah of Islington...that seems about right...get on the ride or fuck off...I'm OK with that...
You are a rentier abusing your privileged position to take advantage of the poor and disadvantaged. You will be first against the wall come the Corbynist revolution.
But Corbyn has been so maligned by the right, and people like me who thought he would lead the party into destruction...that he deserves his place in the sun and now set his own terms...
At least I'm all aboard the good ship Corbyn...there are still loads of places for the likes of you and the many others who believe in social justice, equality and progressive politics....
I'd agree with your first statement. Corbyn has proven his critics wrong and so deserves the space to set out his own stool. But that doesn't mean that disagreement shouldn't be allowed. Politicians are rarely always right, and that's the case even for Corbyn. There's a reason why all political careers end in failure. Leaders either take their party as far as they can go and stand down, or they become PM and go crazy in the end!
Comments
Fuck the critics. We Love Life was a great album.
That no longer applies today.
Today's articles on the BBC Indonesia Facebook feed include a repost (from 2016!) about a random bloke in Scotland who converted to Islam without meeting any Muslims, how nice it is for a church in Java to cancel its Sunday prayers to allow the Muslims to celebrate Eid, and a repost (from 2016!) on how Ramadan is Jihad according to the massive (!) numbers of white British men (yes only men) converting to Islam. http://www.bbc.com/indonesia/majalah/2016/07/160608_ramadan_convert_cambridgeuniv
I don't really understand why British taxes are needed to fund an Islamic perspective on news in Indonesia when Indonesia has already got numerous Islamic news sources of its own which don't cost the British taxpayer anything.
I suspect a future Conservative leader might seek to reduce or remove some of these rights or sacrifice them on the imagined altar of competitiveness, efficiency or by effectively telling every worker to make their own contract with their employer.
A nation of Contractors....
The EU gives an effective guarantee that a change of government with less than 50% support in the country cannot take a way these fundamental rights.
It's hilarious. In their two recent episodes, the impressions of TMay and Corbyn have been fantastic.
I see both them and Tracey Ullman are having fun with taking the mickey out of Arlene Foster
In fairness, the lead on the 'News' page is 'Awkward Questions at Family Gatherings'.....
He is doing a really good job on this. He was very impressive on the news earlier today
Looks like it's Vince versus Davey, in which case the former would be better than the latter. Vince is probably more left than most on PB would like, but he'll give the LDs some relevance that they've been lacking as of late. Cable is probably a bit more left than I am, but I'd vote for the LDs under him.
If the LDs really voted for Ed Davey as leader....then well it's time to totally abstain at the next GE.
Afghanistan cricket: The Taliban supports cricket. Germany helped build their cricket stadium.
They don't even send 0.7% of their GDP on International aid but damn sight more useful than helping India's space program.
I did see him on QT fairly recently though, I thought he was decent on there.
I am impressed by how quick off the mark the BRE have been to plough through a huge number of tests, and it's good that we aren't trusting specifications but actually testing material from every relevant block.
We still need to figure out exactly what went wrong, but I'm now reasonably confident that we will learn a lot of lessons from Grenfall, and more importantly act upon them.
If Davey doesn't stand then it's likely to be a coronation for Vince.
I feel like Davey will be Farron MK2. I can't see him leading the LDs to any significant gains in a GE and think that he'll struggle to be heard in this new era of two-party politics. At least Vince is a big name.
So far it's a race with only one runner and that's Vince who most members will support on the basis he will be a caretaker pending the mentoring and preparation of Jo Swinson to take the job in 2019 or 2020.
Fair enough - on the assumption the Conservative Government will stagger on propped up officially or otherwise by the DUP for the foreseeable.
[only because Talks Bollocks doesn't scan]
A bit like the mandatory testing of structural concrete.
It's good to see Vince calling out Corbyneconomics though - he's a voice on the left that Corbynistas cannot easily dismiss in the way they would do with Orange Booker LDs or anyone who isn't on the very Left of the Labour party. Hopefully he can also be a voice for a more softer Brexit too.
@stodge I was shocked to hear Lamb wasn't running as well. It sounded like from his tweets that he was going to push a Soft Brexit line and thought that wouldn't be acceptable to the membership (who may be looking to continue Farron's line on the EU/Brexit). Would love to see Jo Swinson as leader in the future, but it seems she had concerns running for the leadership as a working mum. Her son will still be quite young even in 2019/2020, so I don't know how likely it would be that she'd be comfortable standing then.
So we can safely ignore that viewpoint.
I do think a contest would be helpful as OGH argues. I don't have an issue with Vince being more on the Labour side of the street - nobody's talking Coalition or anything like that. The aim will and has to be to begin the rebuild of the local base which has taken years of battering.
With the thick end of 9000 Conservative Councillors out there there's going to be plenty of potential targets in the next few years starting with London next year. The possibility of regaining Richmond and Kingston from Conservative control would be helped with Vince in charge but I suspect after the GE a number of the capital's 600 Conservative Councillors will be feeling vulnerable.
"There's only one Vince Cable..."
It's worth repeating that 2/3 of the current LD membership joined AFTER 2015 and around 20% since the EU Referendum. The Party I joined in 1980 died with the Coalition and this new Party isn't one with which I'm wholly comfortable.
I've no problem with the Party campaigning to rejoin the EU though the terms of that re-joining need to be spelt out. The fact is whether we (as a party) like it or not, there was a vote to LEAVE and we have to carry forward that decision.
The terms on which we leave are of critical importance and the unwillingness of May to engage with those outside her Party and Government coupled with the view that whatever gruel is finally dished up in 2019 (which will be praised to the skies by some on here) will have to be accepted or we go off the cliff of WTO rules. There needs to be an option to revisit or extend the negotiation to ensure the best possible deal for the country.
I would also much prefer David Davis to be flanked by Keir Starmer and Vince Cable at the negotiating table.
Oh shes strong and stable maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbelmY
That should tell you all you need to know
Meanwhile Corbynite candidates uproot Labour centrists at Hackney South and Shoreditch party AGM after membership soars
I really would vote for a Tesco Lemon rather than those two. The Tories are not much better.
May was a strange anomaly...someone who wanted all the trappings of the power, but without much of the front facing stuff....May would have made a much better awkward hereditary monarch
It is fine to criticise the statement or the underlying politics, but you were just derisory and abusive.
A rainbow coalition would have never have worked.
A Conservative minority government wouldn't have worked either.
Where we supposed to have a second GE just to please those unhappy with the May 2010 GE result...and another would mostly likely have returned the same result as in May 2010.
And then what? We keep on sending to the public to the polls as minority governments and rainbow coalitions collapse?
The LDs merely took the hand they were dealt. The public chose to make the Conservatives the largest party. Back in 2010 I wasn't happy about that either, but it is what it is.
Corbynistas appear to want to thought-police everyone.
For the record, I am currently a member of a political party and it is not the Conservatives.
Duh....a Supply and Confidence was all that was needed in 2010....
The sight of the LD's jettisoning their principles to jump into ministerial cars was perhaps the lowest kind of politics. Sickening. The LD's will forever be aligned to horrible, sickening, maligned cronyism....
And you have have the prospect of Vince Cable taking over.....poetic justice to a party that deserves all it gets quite frankly....
I think that's wrong. People looked at our membership of the EU and decided that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs. Membership of the EU, in my opinion, is a barrier to economic liberalism and comes with the frankly bizarre devotion to free movement of people between member states.
At least I'm all aboard the good ship Corbyn...there are still loads of places for the likes of you and the many others who believe in social justice, equality and progressive politics....
(I did the same with some FR Kingspan panelling once, just to check it was flame resistant. It was.)
Re the LDs principles - the LDs have always been proponents of PR and coalition politics....thus getting into a coalition with the hope of electoral reform was hardly 'jettisoning' their principles.
The way you're talking I'd believe Labour are perfect....no. All the parties are flawed in some way. You could easily say Labour are the party that sold out their principles in regard to Iraq and cosying up to Bush, the GOP and Murdoch. The former of which is far worse than anything the LDs did in coalition. Or even in regard to Corbyn and his support for Hugo Chavez and going on RT and Iranian State TV. That's pretty morally problematic. And let's not even talk about John McDonnell, a Marxist....
Cable is hardly the worst thing that could happen to the LDs. That was Farron - and they somehow managed to gain seats under him!
I dare say some of the softer PB Tories are tempted! Gin is wavering (although he really is a Leftie!)
The corollary - that was never explained to the British people and therefore never bought into - was that the first step to that is you can no longer control who comes into your borders, meaning you can no longer realistically call yourself a nation state.
On the positive side, your pathetic Brexit is never going to happen comrade IMO.
But while at present I know what Corbyn's Labour is for, while the purpose of Conservatives (to stop Corbyn and get some unspecified kind of Brexit?) and the LibDems (another referendum and...?) is largely shrouded in mystery. That was ALSO true of Labour in 2010 - speaking as a candidate, it was all about "stop the Tories". I think that the explosion of youth interest in Corbyn is that he's brought idealism back into fashion - the Tories will be making a mistake if they think that just addressing tuition fees will make much differemnce.
Anyway Prof Bogdanor thinks we might not leave. He says that Labour did well to present a vision for Soft Brexit. I respect the guy, but I think Jezza was pretty clear in wanting the UK to leave the Single Market.
The Foo Fighters are the ultimate crowd pleasers....