Yes, the Tories are now buying each day in office for two days of future opposition.
I don't see May having the negotiating skill to manage a minority government for very long at all, even in ideal circumstances, and these are far from ideal.
How are her negotiations going with the DUP I wonder. It will be interesting to see how much she has to give them.
The problem is that whatever she gives to the DUP she has to give also to SF.
And what she gives to NI, she also has to give to Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, the NE, Merseyside, Manchester, Harpenden North etc etc.
The Barnett formula seems to be the problem. The Treasury is kicking up a fuss because every extra £1 sent to NI means £2 for Wales and £5 for Scotland, so every £1 the DUP wins costs the Treasury eight times as much.
Britain's Greatest Invention is on BBC2 tonight. We can keep score of Milton Friedman's adage discussed earlier in the thread that inventions do not come from central government.
The list: Antiobiotics Concrete The fridge The jet engine The mobile phone (with mention of Acorn Computers - wahey!) The steam engine The television
None of these came from central government. Central government may have helped development - e.g. the jet engine - but even in that case they hindered development for many years before finally embracing it. At one point they even gave jet development to Rover!
IMO where central government does play a role is in standardisation and regulation. Europe's mobile phone market managed to expand into the world because of the EU reserving frequencies and adopting a common standard, instead of the US's three battling standards.
We can be sure buildings will not fall down not because government developed concrete, but because they developed and adopted standards for concrete (e.g. BS 8500) that everyone should work to.
We can buy electric fridges that plug into the mains in our homes because they standardised home electricity supply voltages and sockets.
Governments are best as enablers, not as choosers of winners.
I would elect sewerage systems. But as that isn't on the list, I vote antibiotics. For the first time in history we can have some confidence of surviving a whole raft of diseases to live to old age.
You see I thought antibiotics as well. But then I started thinking about how they are starting to fail and how we have abused them. Now I am not so sure.
Oh and someone has already pointed out we didn't invent concrete, the Romans did. And theirs is much better than ours.
The article specifically mentions Portland Cement: the basic material that is used n the vast majority of mortars and concretes around the world.
Hydraulic and non-hydraulic(lime-based) roman cements are very different beasts.
And roman concrete it is not 'much better' than ours: it has different properties that work well in some circumstances. For one thing, availability of it is much lower due to its constituent parts.
This discussion is a like a 'Worst of QI' special.
Then my work here is done.
I found lectures on concrete to be much more interesting than the geology ones. I'm unsure quite how sad this makes me ...
I have to say that some of the commentary on here about a hung Parliament is wildly overdone. Sure, it's not an overall majority. But look around the rest of Europe and overall majorities aren't the norm, and government formation takes some time and is extensively brokered. Why shouldn't Britain have a spin of that wheel for once?
The Dutch still haven't got a new government after the elections three months ago:
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I agree with Slackbladder here.
As a committed atheist I struggle with religious views generally. If you believe in a god what else do you believe in.
BUT TF was very clear in is liberal views. He did not want to impose his views on others and strongly believed in the individuals right to believe different things to him. Quote 'I am passionate about defending the rights and liberties of people who believe different things to me. There are Christians in politics who take the view that they should impose the tenets of faith on society, but I have not taken that approach because I disagree with it - it's not liberal"
This seems too complicated for the media!
Hmm. The point for a lot of people is that he held a view deemed unsavoury. It's not about imposing them on others, it's about holding them in the first place.
Just as he is free to hold those beliefs, others are free to criticise him for them.
Take out the religion aspect - if Tim had said something along the lines of "I believe that black people are inferior to white people, but of course I would never dream of imposing those views on others" - I think people would have a right to feel that he is a racist who has no place leading a liberal party, regardless of whether he intends to impose apartheid or not. I am of course taking an extreme example but the principle remains the same - his viewpoints clearly indicate some degree of issue around homosexuality - homosexuals should feel within their right to dislike him because of it.
May and Gove managed to give straight answers on these issues, so there is clearly something stronger in Farron's beliefs on this subject.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
Oh people can believe whatever they want. They're just wrong and I dislike their views intensely. No different to a communist in the stock market I guess.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
Keir Hardie would probably not agree.
He's very dead however so it's not a debate I anticipate having with him.
The history of liberal reform and of the Labour Party were strongly linked with Christianity.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
Yes, the Tories are now buying each day in office for two days of future opposition.
I don't see May having the negotiating skill to manage a minority government for very long at all, even in ideal circumstances, and these are far from ideal.
How are her negotiations going with the DUP I wonder. It will be interesting to see how much she has to give them.
The problem is that whatever she gives to the DUP she has to give also to SF.
And what she gives to NI, she also has to give to Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, the NE, Merseyside, Manchester, Harpenden North etc etc.
The Barnett formula seems to be the problem. The Treasury is kicking up a fuss because every extra £1 sent to NI means £2 for Wales and £5 for Scotland, so every £1 the DUP wins costs the Treasury eight times as much.
Time to change Barnett then?
I don't see there's anything stopping the UK government making direct payments in Northern Ireland outwith the Northern Irish government and the block grant. "Land Border Consolidation Fund" should do it.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
Keir Hardie would probably not agree.
He's very dead however so it's not a debate I anticipate having with him.
The history of liberal reform and of the Labour Party were strongly linked with Christianity.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
Edit - And inequality. Typing with one finger on an iPad.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
I pretty much agree, & not just about religion. One of the attractive things about Judaism (let's forget about the ethno-mystical land grabbing for a moment) is an almost total absence of a need to convert.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
Keir Hardie would probably not agree.
He's very dead however so it's not a debate I anticipate having with him.
The history of liberal reform and of the Labour Party were strongly linked with Christianity.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
That may be so, but for me it further demonstrates the deficiency of humanity that they required fanciful beliefs to do what is plainly to the benefit of humanity. We have progressed but we are centuries behind where we would have been without religion IMHO.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
I pretty much agree, & not just about religion. One of the attractive things about Judaism (let's forget about the ethno-mystical land grabbing for a moment) is an almost total absence of a need to convert.
Balanced out by the regrettable Nazism of the Jewish state of course.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
I pretty much agree, & not just about religion. One of the attractive things about Judaism (let's forget about the ethno-mystical land grabbing for a moment) is an almost total absence of a need to convert.
Balanced out by the regrettable Nazism of the Jewish state of course.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
Keir Hardie would probably not agree.
He's very dead however so it's not a debate I anticipate having with him.
The history of liberal reform and of the Labour Party were strongly linked with Christianity.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
That may be so, but for me it further demonstrates the deficiency of humanity that they required fanciful beliefs to do what is plainly to the benefit of humanity. We have progressed but we are centuries behind where we would have been without religion IMHO.
Hmm I'm an atheist personally, but England wouldn't be England without christianity. It is intrinsic to the fabric of the nation I feel... As is the aristrocracy ! All those churches and castles...
I have to say that some of the commentary on here about a hung Parliament is wildly overdone. Sure, it's not an overall majority. But look around the rest of Europe and overall majorities aren't the norm, and government formation takes some time and is extensively brokered. Why shouldn't Britain have a spin of that wheel for once?
The Dutch still haven't got a new government after the elections three months ago:
Different times, but it does highlight how impressive the Con-LD coalition negotiations were when it led to an agreement in 5 days back in 2010.
The main difference, I feel, was that the Lib Dems and Conservatives both wanted to be constructive and put the formation of a Government ahead of their own personal wants.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
I have to say that some of the commentary on here about a hung Parliament is wildly overdone. Sure, it's not an overall majority. But look around the rest of Europe and overall majorities aren't the norm, and government formation takes some time and is extensively brokered. Why shouldn't Britain have a spin of that wheel for once?
The Dutch still haven't got a new government after the elections three months ago:
Different times, but it does highlight how impressive the Con-LD coalition negotiations were when it led to an agreement in 5 days back in 2010.
The main difference, I feel, was that the Lib Dems and Conservatives both wanted to be constructive and put the formation of a Government ahead of their own personal wants.
And they had a sizeable majority between them. The Tories must be acutely aware that it could all collapse very quickly so wouldn't want to agree to too much or make too many plans for government.
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
To be fair that is a very localised case in a very atypical location though. It's probebly the one place in the country where that really is the situation.
Surely the lessons of the last year or so show there are no certainties any more and that historical precedents give precious few clues either. The only certainty I can see looking at the UK from afar is that the country's mess is only exceeded by the lamentable quality of its politicians.
Yep, dreadful. While these twerps squabble and pontificate 99% of us get on with our lives.
Its why there won't be an election in years, its one big yawn to the electorate.
Turnout was up nationally.
... and apparently another election in the Autumn would be popular.
Britain Elects @britainelects Jun 13 On another general election this autumn:
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
You seem much exercised with the supposed bigotry of others. You support a party which has much answer concerning anti-semitic bigotry.
Moats and beams.
Indeed. I can't be bothered to do it myself, but it would be interesting to look at geographical distribution of Jewish voters to see how many it takes per constituency for the seat to become unwinnable for Labour.
How true is any of this? Ilford North is Labour; Mrs Thatcher's old seat is Conservative. Anecdote alert: I asked some small-c conservative jews about Ken Livingstone earlier this year; they were not bothered about his views on Hitler but had been incandescent when Livingstone wrote off jews as a Tory bloc a couple of years back.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
Keir Hardie would probably not agree.
He's very dead however so it's not a debate I anticipate having with him.
The history of liberal reform and of the Labour Party were strongly linked with Christianity.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
That may be so, but for me it further demonstrates the deficiency of humanity that they required fanciful beliefs to do what is plainly to the benefit of humanity. We have progressed but we are centuries behind where we would have been without religion IMHO.
Hmm I'm an atheist personally, but England wouldn't be England without christianity. It is intrinsic to the fabric of the nation I feel... As is the aristrocracy ! All those churches and castles...
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
I'd agree wholeheartedly with this. Wealth is not something we should be proud of when there is poverty. And that's in the First World, before we even begin to look at the treatment of the majority of the world's people.
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
What could they gain from propping up the Tories? The only meaningful commitments would be single market membership and a second referendum. The Tories cannot offer either (private assurances on EEA would be perhaps possible, but the LDs would need it to be public to justify it to their supporters). It would be electoral suicide for the LDs to accept anything less.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way? he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
So the question then arises about why he was singled out for special attention by journalists. All of them highly professional and impartial journalists, of course.
I feel sorry for Farron. How many other religious politicans are asked about their beliefs in the same way?
he made it clear he wasn't imposing his view on anyone else.
Proof, were it ever needed, that religious faith and politics are incompatible. We need to be much less apologetic about faith based intolerance in general. It's a deficiency in humanity, not a strength.
He's made his choice. To be faithful to Christ. Implies that supercedes his faithfulness to humanity. Good riddance.
Disclaimer - my views on faith make Richard Dawkins look like a pious bishop.
I know what you mean. I had faith burned out of me thanks to Paisley's preachers. If there is a hell it will be packed out with those bigots.
I had religion pumped into my system every morning for 4 years at cathedral school. I learned to loathe the very concept of faith, of hateful and judgemental preachers and the control wielded by those who claim to speak for their God. I truly despise religious faith.
I used to despise religious faith. These days I merely do not tolerate envangelical religious fait. I have no objection to people believing in it but I object to having it pushed on to me to unasked
I pretty much agree, & not just about religion. One of the attractive things about Judaism (let's forget about the ethno-mystical land grabbing for a moment) is an almost total absence of a need to convert.
Balanced out by the regrettable Nazism of the Jewish state of course.
I think I've spotted Ken in the house...
Damn, rumbled.
You are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you? A huge fuss over nothing.
Rich Jews don't vote Labour. It seems to me I’m still carrying the burden of being ahead of my time. I’m always ahead of my time. Jewish property developers should go back to Iran.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
I'd agree wholeheartedly with this. Wealth is not something we should be proud of when there is poverty. And that's in the First World, before we even begin to look at the treatment of the majority of the world's people.
Likewise. The property issue is at the base of many of society's problems. The effect of an insufficient supply of homes is high mortgages and rents => high wages needed => huge costs for business and govt.
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
Is STV a price worth paying for the Tories ?
The Tories would personally chauffeur Corbyn to Buckingham Palace before they agreed to STV for Westminster!
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
Of course. If Mrs May`s government put forward sensible, liberal proposals (possibly the sort that the DUP would not back) , I am sure the Lib Dem MPs would vote for them - without any need for any kind of formal arrangement.
Does anybody think Mrs May`s government would be that sensible?
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
You have to meet the residents. What are no 10 thinking?
Good morning all. Had an interesting chat with my father last night. Aside from deciding I've lurched to the left of his parents who were Dyed in the wool trade unionist labourites, he has concluded the answer is means testing. Of everything. Pensions, pensioner benefits, NHS care for those with private health insurance, welfare, child benefits etc etc etc. His Quote - insurance like NI is to protect against an outcome, not a savings account. State help only for the needy. He acknowledged it's old goats like him that won't vote for it though. I proposed universal income. He gave me the look.
One problem with means testing is that it is expensive. Another is that it is intrusive: the government needs to look at all your savings accounts, assets and income before it gives you a free television licence, and it is not just the government. In order to judge whether your child gets a free bowl of cornflakes, the school also needs to know, and your daughter's teacher is a notorious gossip.
There is a more subtle political argument that universal benefits give everyone in a stake in the system, but regardless of that, sometimes it is just more efficient.
Yes, a very astute analysis by Rifkind. And it is why the Tories need to go for Softly Softly Brexit, as Hammond wants.
Minimum risk, while still honouring the country's choice.
If they still insist on Hard Brexit, then the Tories will own the fall-out, and Corbyn will walk in to Number 10 at the next GE (which could be any time).
The danger of this commie in power is too great. It has changed everything.
Except that doesn't really help them.
Softly, softly Brexit will still wipe billions off the balance sheet. As will Corbyn, but the Tories can't then claim to be the ones to fix it.
Boris has destroyed the Tories more thoroughly than his own leadership chances
@juliamacfarlane: .@vicderbyshire hears criticism of PM for private visit. Pre #GE2017 what was a strength - not courting media - now appears to be a weakness
Surely the lessons of the last year or so show there are no certainties any more and that historical precedents give precious few clues either. The only certainty I can see looking at the UK from afar is that the country's mess is only exceeded by the lamentable quality of its politicians.
Yep, dreadful. While these twerps squabble and pontificate 99% of us get on with our lives.
Its why there won't be an election in years, its one big yawn to the electorate.
Turnout was up nationally.
... and apparently another election in the Autumn would be popular.
Britain Elects @britainelects Jun 13 On another general election this autumn:
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
You seem much exercised with the supposed bigotry of others. You support a party which has much answer concerning anti-semitic bigotry.
Moats and beams.
Indeed. I can't be bothered to do it myself, but it would be interesting to look at geographical distribution of Jewish voters to see how many it takes per constituency for the seat to become unwinnable for Labour.
How true is any of this? Ilford North is Labour; Mrs Thatcher's old seat is Conservative. Anecdote alert: I asked some small-c conservative jews about Ken Livingstone earlier this year; they were not bothered about his views on Hitler but had been incandescent when Livingstone wrote off jews as a Tory bloc a couple of years back.
How true is any of what? I merely wondered what percentage of Jewish voters it takes to make a constituency unwinnable for Labour.
Your anecdote is just an anecdote. I have others. We have it from Labour MPs and other party officials that Labour tolerates anti-Semitism. When Emma Barnett twitted Corbyn on the radio, it took minutes for his supporters to point out that she is a Jew. In my previous post above I provided a few verbatim Livingstone quotes.
Which other party's supporters do this? About which other ethnicity would this be tolerated?
Always remember that surveys have shown that people tend to have a higher view of their own IQ than is warranted; the same goes for their judgement,
This means they tend to look down on others when perhaps they shouldn't. That's a problem for politicians and political geeks too. Hence the nonsense about I've never kissed a Tory t-shirts, and that the other side is both wrong AND malevolent.
Christianity teaches that we're all pretty useless on our own. This is anathema (!) to those who have a an elevated opinion of themselves. They may be right, there may be no God, but it's not a very scientific view. You can never bank on proving a negative.
In 1900, we believed that all that was needed in physics then was to tweak the decimal places. Now we know that we know a lot less. Relativity, quantum theory, dark matter and energy were found. Dark stuff being 95% of our world - and we have no real idea what it is.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
To be fair that is a very localised case in a very atypical location though. It's probebly the one place in the country where that really is the situation.
But it is felt across the country - one rule for us, another for them. More and more people feel they do not have a stake in the society in which they live. It has delivered Brexit. It may next deliver Corbyn.
I said yesterday the fire could have lasting consequences for polotics. The continued delay in restarting parliament due to May dithering is adding to the clamour about having questions asked in the house but being unable to do so and letting speculation run wild and further delay to the brexit talks.
IF it is true she is not meeting them then it's poor. Even if by talking with them you are going to take a hammering and people are looking for someone to bash or criticize you still do it.
But it might not be true, social media so far says she hasn't and some of the young people who clearly support a different party (judging from their tweeting history) are those that are the ones tweeting it.
Surely the lessons of the last year or so show there are no certainties any more and that historical precedents give precious few clues either. The only certainty I can see looking at the UK from afar is that the country's mess is only exceeded by the lamentable quality of its politicians.
Yep, dreadful. While these twerps squabble and pontificate 99% of us get on with our lives.
Its why there won't be an election in years, its one big yawn to the electorate.
Turnout was up nationally.
... and apparently another election in the Autumn would be popular.
Britain Elects @britainelects Jun 13 On another general election this autumn:
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
You seem much exercised with the supposed bigotry of others. You support a party which has much answer concerning anti-semitic bigotry.
Moats and beams.
Indeed. I can't be bothered to do it myself, but it would be interesting to look at geographical distribution of Jewish voters to see how many it takes per constituency for the seat to become unwinnable for Labour.
How true is any of this? Ilford North is Labour; Mrs Thatcher's old seat is Conservative. Anecdote alert: I asked some small-c conservative jews about Ken Livingstone earlier this year; they were not bothered about his views on Hitler but had been incandescent when Livingstone wrote off jews as a Tory bloc a couple of years back.
How true is any of what? I merely wondered what percentage of Jewish voters it takes to make a constituency unwinnable for Labour.
Your anecdote is just an anecdote. I have others. We have it from Labour MPs and other party officials that Labour tolerates anti-Semitism. When Emma Barnett twitted Corbyn on the radio, it took minutes for his supporters to point out that she is a Jew. In my previous post above I provided a few verbatim Livingstone quotes.
Which other party's supporters do this? About which other ethnicity would this be tolerated?
You beg the question; or rather two separate questions. Why should any percentage of any religion make a seat unwinnable for any party?
What would you have us do? Handover to a party with 800,000 votes less than us, who claim say they would do "no deals with anyone else". In 2 years we would be back anyway because the UK would be totally bankrupt and PM Boris and chancellor Davies would be cutting and slashing on a scale that would break liberal hearts.
Yep - and this is just one example. Pharma exports is another. Then there air travel. And so much more. All those talking as if it is just a matter of tariffs have absolutely no idea about the scale of difficulty a No Deal delivers. And it is not a balanced thing - we get absolutely hammered, the EU27 don't. Their negotiators know this; the increasing worry is that our side genuinely does not.
IF it is true she is not meeting them then it's poor. Even if by talking with them you are going to take a hammering and people are looking for someone to bash or criticize you still do it.
But it might not be true, social media so far says she hasn't and some of the young people who clearly support a different party (judging from their tweeting history) are those that are the ones tweeting it.
the guardian have mentioned it in their liveblog, which indicates some form of fact checking (it would be highly irresponsible of them to post it without confirming) even if they make reference to the initial tweets
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
Is STV a price worth paying for the Tories ?
No. That would give us a coalition of chaos every election.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
The thing is, I feel that way when I read that millions in the third world die because they cook indoors with smokey fuel because western liberals' preoccupation with global warming has made clean fuel like LPG too expensive. I feel that way when there are food shortages because food crops are being bought up by the highest bidder and turned into car fuel.
What if the fire was caused by flammable building materials, used to meet green energy efficiency targets?
I had this debate, inconclusively, with Rochdale Pioneers a few weeks ago. He like you was adamant that the answer to some unforgivable social evil was to vote Labour. But the example he chose - people dying in filthy hospitals - was one that began and became commonplace under Labour at a time when money was being firehosed at hospitals.
Likewise you would like, it appears, to seize on this fire as evidence of the deep injustice of society. But the block has just had millions spent on it and the people who lived there are covered by the same regulations as those that govern all such buildings, including those built in Docklands or Paddington Basin and sold to private buyers. Do you think those developers build them any better?
There are areas of differentiation between parties but the quality of the NHS and building safety aren't among them.
One of the reasons the UK electorate might eventually reject Corbyn's Labour (in its entirety) is because of nasty little plays like this, blaming any and every tragedy on the Conservatives.
All true, but don't forget that it works equally the other way, and the EU exports more food to us than we do to them. No deal is a bad deal for them as well as for us. That's no guarantee that it will all be sorted out, of course - unfortunately the great British public have just made it incomparably harder to get a deal.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
Poor. Very poor.
Some say May is fundamentally a shy person but if she really wants to hang on as PM she has got to overcome this reticence and that's being ultra charitable. Others will rightly interpret it less favourably.
All true, but don't forget that it works equally the other way, and the EU exports more food to us than we do to them. No deal is a bad deal for them as well as for us. That's no guarantee that it will all be sorted out, of course - unfortunately the great British public have just made it incomparably harder to get a deal.
No. it doesn't work "equally". That's the point.
Unless you are really claiming we will only import food into the UK through Rosyth
All true, but don't forget that it works equally the other way, and the EU exports more food to us than we do to them. No deal is a bad deal for them as well as for us. That's no guarantee that it will all be sorted out, of course - unfortunately the great British public have just made it incomparably harder to get a deal.
How long before the clamour to hold a 2nd referendum grows?
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
Poor. Very poor.
Some say May is fundamentally a shy person but if she really wants to hang on as PM she has got to overcome this reticence and that's being ultra charitable. Others will rightly interpret it less favourably.
The only way for May to meet those residents is in a private closed session, once she has people around her who are able to give answers and reassurances to their specific questions, and possibly some initial understanding from the fire services as to what went wrong - and how it might be prevented in the future.
But if she is going to do that, she needs to get that message out pronto.
There are truly appalling political games being played over this tragedy. Everyone involved should take a moment and respect the suffering of so many.
In time the real reasons will be revealed and if there are politicians , local authorities, building inspectors and contractors culpable let the law deal with them and remedial action taken.
It cannot be emphasised enough that this building had millions spent on it last year and the upgrading was approved by all bodies including the fire service
Surely the lessons of the last year or so show there are no certainties any more and that historical precedents give precious few clues either. The only certainty I can see looking at the UK from afar is that the country's mess is only exceeded by the lamentable quality of its politicians.
Yep, dreadful. While these twerps squabble and pontificate 99% of us get on with our lives.
Its why there won't be an election in years, its one big yawn to the electorate.
Turnout was up nationally.
... and apparently another election in the Autumn would be popular.
Britain Elects @britainelects Jun 13 On another general election this autumn:
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
You seem much exercised with the supposed bigotry of others. You support a party which has much answer concerning anti-semitic bigotry.
Moats and beams.
Indeed. I can't be bothered to do it myself, but it would be interesting to look at geographical distribution of Jewish voters to see how many it takes per constituency for the seat to become unwinnable for Labour.
How true is any of this? Ilford North is Labour; Mrs Thatcher's old seat is Conservative. Anecdote alert: I asked some small-c conservative jews about Ken Livingstone earlier this year; they were not bothered about his views on Hitler but had been incandescent when Livingstone wrote off jews as a Tory bloc a couple of years back.
There is no Jewish bloc vote. As a social group, I should say they are more difficult to pin down in their voting habits than most.
The DUP, as a minor partly normally irrelevant to parliamentary proceedings, are potentially the swing voters that would decide many of the votes that come before the Commons. That gives them great influence, which I think they would enjoy. In their position I would need to be offered a lot to sell that influence by agreeing in advance to provide the government with ongoing support.
Of course, the LibDems could equally gain great influence and make dependence on the DUP unnecessary. If they don't like the DUP having that influence, the remedy is in their hands.
Is STV a price worth paying for the Tories ?
The Tories would personally chauffeur Corbyn to Buckingham Palace before they agreed to STV for Westminster!
There you go. The remedy is in the Conservatives hands. As a bonus, it would make it far harder for Corbyn to get into power alone and be able to impose his policies unhampered by the need for compromise.
But it would throw away their lock on either being in power or being the next to be in power, so they'll never do it.
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
You seem much exercised with the supposed bigotry of others. You support a party which has much answer concerning anti-semitic bigotry.
Moats and beams.
Indeed. I can't be bothered to do it myself, but it would be interesting to look at geographical distribution of Jewish voters to see how many it takes per constituency for the seat to become unwinnable for Labour.
How true is any of this? Ilford North is Labour; Mrs Thatcher's old seat is Conservative. Anecdote alert: I asked some small-c conservative jews about Ken Livingstone earlier this year; they were not bothered about his views on Hitler but had been incandescent when Livingstone wrote off jews as a Tory bloc a couple of years back.
How true is any of what? I merely wondered what percentage of Jewish voters it takes to make a constituency unwinnable for Labour.
Your anecdote is just an anecdote. I have others. We have it from Labour MPs and other party officials that Labour tolerates anti-Semitism. When Emma Barnett twitted Corbyn on the radio, it took minutes for his supporters to point out that she is a Jew. In my previous post above I provided a few verbatim Livingstone quotes.
Which other party's supporters do this? About which other ethnicity would this be tolerated?
You beg the question; or rather two separate questions. Why should any percentage of any religion make a seat unwinnable for any party?
If a party is anti-Semitic then if there are more than x% of Jewish voters in any given seat that seat become unwinnable for that party.
Such is the hypothesis. The evidence from Finchley, Hendon and Barnet supports it in London. Undermining it we have only anecdote.
It's right to ask questions, but we need investigations, not lynch mobs.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
I just can't get it out of my head that while the poor and the left behind were fighting for their lives in a death trap, across Kensington & Chelsea there were countless properties lying empty bought only as investments by multi-millionaires and hedge funds who will never visit them. We do not live in a moral or a sustainable society. No wonder Corbyn struck a note with so many people.
The thing is, I feel that way when I read that millions in the third world die because they cook indoors with smokey fuel because western liberals' preoccupation with global warming has made clean fuel like LPG too expensive. I feel that way when there are food shortages because food crops are being bought up by the highest bidder and turned into car fuel.
What if the fire was caused by flammable building materials, used to meet green energy efficiency targets?
I had this debate, inconclusively, with Rochdale Pioneers a few weeks ago. He like you was adamant that the answer to some unforgivable social evil was to vote Labour. But the example he chose - people dying in filthy hospitals - was one that began and became commonplace under Labour at a time when money was being firehosed at hospitals.
Likewise you would like, it appears, to seize on this fire as evidence of the deep injustice of society. But the block has just had millions spent on it and the people who lived there are covered by the same regulations as those that govern all such buildings, including those built in Docklands or Paddington Basin and sold to private buyers. Do you think those developers build them any better?
There are areas of differentiation between parties but the quality of the NHS and building safety aren't among them.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
Poor. Very poor.
Some say May is fundamentally a shy person but if she really wants to hang on as PM she has got to overcome this reticence and that's being ultra charitable. Others will rightly interpret it less favourably.
The only way for May to meet those residents is in a private closed session, once she has people around her who are able to give answers and reassurances to their specific questions, and possibly some initial understanding from the fire services as to what went wrong - and how it might be prevented in the future.
But if she is going to do that, she needs to get that message out pronto.
A private visit to the hospitals is likely as she did following London Bridge attack
Unless you are really claiming we will only import food into the UK through Rosyth
You are right that it doesn't work equally. In the particular case of agriculture, disruption would hit the EU27 (especially France, Spain and Italy) more badly than us.
All true, but don't forget that it works equally the other way, and the EU exports more food to us than we do to them. No deal is a bad deal for them as well as for us. That's no guarantee that it will all be sorted out, of course - unfortunately the great British public have just made it incomparably harder to get a deal.
It doesn't work equally the other way. The EU want an orderly exit. God knows what our lot want - probably for the whole mess to disappear of its own accord ... Back to the EU: they will take the exit over the orderly if it stops the uncertainty dragging on. A car crash is at least a clear outcome and they won't be in the car.
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
Theresa May just doesn't "do" people... And in this modern day a leader can't be successful without being able to "emote" with their citizens.
I'm sure she's a very nice person but she's got to go. This can't go on much longer.
"[Brexit] certainly cannot it be done if the nation is frightened, and frightened it will be if Brexit ultras push through a scorched-earth withdrawal from the EU in an economic downturn."
Surely the lessons of the last year or so show there are no certainties any more and that historical precedents give precious few clues either. The only certainty I can see looking at the UK from afar is that the country's mess is only exceeded by the lamentable quality of its politicians.
Yep, dreadful. While these twerps squabble and pontificate 99% of us get on with our lives.
Its why there won't be an election in years, its one big yawn to the electorate.
Turnout was up nationally.
... and apparently another election in the Autumn would be popular.
Britain Elects @britainelects Jun 13 On another general election this autumn:
Survation had voters opposing another general election this autumn by 49% to 40% and Survation were closest to the final election result
Old poll. Much chaos and backroom bargaining with a bunch of regionalist bigots has ensued since then.
Call it.
No that poll was taken after the election result and it showed voters were just as opposed to a Labour SNP deal as a Tory DUP deal
Assuming the QS i passed, what would be the reason advanced for an October election?
Labour want one the Tories don't and as the Tories have more seats there won't be one
True. There is no defensible case for an October election.
The Tories have a negligible majority, they have a leader which most of the PCP/Party members and supporters despise, the House of Lords does not have a Tory Majority - everything sent to it will be sent back - And whatever you may think about him, Corbyn has been in the house for 30 odd years and is well aware of all the techniques to screw a Government party. All he was able to do previously was protest, now that he has his hands on the levers....And the Men in Grey Suits are aware of all this!
Comments
I found lectures on concrete to be much more interesting than the geology ones. I'm unsure quite how sad this makes me ...
Just as he is free to hold those beliefs, others are free to criticise him for them.
Take out the religion aspect - if Tim had said something along the lines of "I believe that black people are inferior to white people, but of course I would never dream of imposing those views on others" - I think people would have a right to feel that he is a racist who has no place leading a liberal party, regardless of whether he intends to impose apartheid or not. I am of course taking an extreme example but the principle remains the same - his viewpoints clearly indicate some degree of issue around homosexuality - homosexuals should feel within their right to dislike him because of it.
May and Gove managed to give straight answers on these issues, so there is clearly something stronger in Farron's beliefs on this subject.
I am an atheist but recognise that that religious conviction was and is the root of many politicians' desire to tackle injustice sand inequality.
I expect we will get a full blown 'judge-led' inquiry into this affair.
Typing with one finger on an iPad.
One of the attractive things about Judaism (let's forget about the ethno-mystical land grabbing for a moment) is an almost total absence of a need to convert.
As is the aristrocracy !
All those churches and castles...
Celeste Thomas (@mamapie)
But she is refusing to meet residents. #GrenfellTower #LondonFire https://t.co/OT1mOhXhRp
June 15, 2017
Before the visit Downing Street said the prime minister was planning to talk to the emergency services to ensure that they have the resources they need to deal with the situation.
You are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you? A huge fuss over nothing.
Rich Jews don't vote Labour. It seems to me I’m still carrying the burden of being ahead of my time. I’m always ahead of my time. Jewish property developers should go back to Iran.
It does us no favours.
Does anybody think Mrs May`s government would be that sensible?
Or maybe I'm just a little oversensitive, having seen that building at 7.00 am yesterday, still spewing out smoke.
There is a more subtle political argument that universal benefits give everyone in a stake in the system, but regardless of that, sometimes it is just more efficient.
Softly, softly Brexit will still wipe billions off the balance sheet. As will Corbyn, but the Tories can't then claim to be the ones to fix it.
Boris has destroyed the Tories more thoroughly than his own leadership chances
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/moped-muggers-spray-acid-in-face-of-trainee-doctor-outside-hospital-a3565571.html
Your anecdote is just an anecdote. I have others. We have it from Labour MPs and other party officials that Labour tolerates anti-Semitism. When Emma Barnett twitted Corbyn on the radio, it took minutes for his supporters to point out that she is a Jew. In my previous post above I provided a few verbatim Livingstone quotes.
Which other party's supporters do this? About which other ethnicity would this be tolerated?
This means they tend to look down on others when perhaps they shouldn't. That's a problem for politicians and political geeks too. Hence the nonsense about I've never kissed a Tory t-shirts, and that the other side is both wrong AND malevolent.
Christianity teaches that we're all pretty useless on our own. This is anathema (!) to those who have a an elevated opinion of themselves. They may be right, there may be no God, but it's not a very scientific view. You can never bank on proving a negative.
In 1900, we believed that all that was needed in physics then was to tweak the decimal places. Now we know that we know a lot less. Relativity, quantum theory, dark matter and energy were found. Dark stuff being 95% of our world - and we have no real idea what it is.
We always know a lot less than we think we do.
I'll get back to you when I've worked how much your oversensitivity figures in the scheme of things.
But it might not be true, social media so far says she hasn't and some of the young people who clearly support a different party (judging from their tweeting history) are those that are the ones tweeting it.
https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/875275682384924672
What if the fire was caused by flammable building materials, used to meet green energy efficiency targets?
I had this debate, inconclusively, with Rochdale Pioneers a few weeks ago. He like you was adamant that the answer to some unforgivable social evil was to vote Labour. But the example he chose - people dying in filthy hospitals - was one that began and became commonplace under Labour at a time when money was being firehosed at hospitals.
Likewise you would like, it appears, to seize on this fire as evidence of the deep injustice of society. But the block has just had millions spent on it and the people who lived there are covered by the same regulations as those that govern all such buildings, including those built in Docklands or Paddington Basin and sold to private buyers. Do you think those developers build them any better?
There are areas of differentiation between parties but the quality of the NHS and building safety aren't among them.
I have little sympathy for him.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/whats-tim-farrons-track-record-on-lgbt-rights
Especially when ordinary people have voted LD in the past, expecting liberalism, and ended up getting this;
https://cvcomment.org/2013/02/05/sarah-teathers-statement-why-i-voted-against-gay-marriage/
His victimhood speech yesterday lacked self awareness.
The LD's are not in a good place.
Wonder whether these could be related? Maybe they're going to try and present QS without DUP support and see if Parlaiment votes it down?
That "joke" you have posted is despicable.
Unless you are really claiming we will only import food into the UK through Rosyth
But if she is going to do that, she needs to get that message out pronto.
In time the real reasons will be revealed and if there are politicians , local authorities, building inspectors and contractors culpable let the law deal with them and remedial action taken.
It cannot be emphasised enough that this building had millions spent on it last year and the upgrading was approved by all bodies including the fire service
The remedy is in the Conservatives hands.
As a bonus, it would make it far harder for Corbyn to get into power alone and be able to impose his policies unhampered by the need for compromise.
But it would throw away their lock on either being in power or being the next to be in power, so they'll never do it.
Such is the hypothesis. The evidence from Finchley, Hendon and Barnet supports it in London. Undermining it we have only anecdote.
I'm sure she's a very nice person but she's got to go. This can't go on much longer.
Come back Andrea Leadsom.
"[Brexit] certainly cannot it be done if the nation is frightened, and frightened it will be if Brexit ultras push through a scorched-earth withdrawal from the EU in an economic downturn."