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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The size of her majority will determine the sort of PM Theresa

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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:


    New Scotland poll ?

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/

    NAT SINKING FEELING Shock poll shows SNP at three-year low with 32 MPs ‘at risk’ as General Election race tightens

    It's part of the Survey Monkey poll.

    I'm not going to read too much into it.

    17 Scottish Tory MPs, 12 SLab MPs, SNP down to 24 MPs.

    I'm filing that in the Angus Reid folder.
    Me, I'm not greedy, I'd be happy if the snp reduced to the 40s, very happy if it was mid 40s, and if they dipped into the thirties? Wonderful times.

    Would help Corbyn get close to 200 seats or above though.

    32 seats at risk though, I cannot credit that.
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk, May could fail to make a net gain of more than 10 Labour seats in England and Wales and still have a majority comfortably over 50 thanks to Scotland
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk then my seriously dodgy 10/1 on them missing out on a seat majority might come off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking. Still, a man can dream.
    Certainly and Davidson has Sturgeon on the back foot, though I can's see the SNP getting less than 45 myself, they will lose barely any seats in Glasgow and Dundee and the Central Belt, the big swings against them will be in the borders and rural Scotland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen
    Is Davidson more strong and more stable than May?
    Take a much stronger wind to blow her over versus May

    Is the wind of change blowing across Scotland?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Which is more damaging to the country - five years of Jeremy Corbyn or decades of car crash Brexit?

    The answer isn't obvious.

    Corbyn would be a disaster on so many fronts, not least for the future credibility of his own party. Car crash Brexit is equally likely under Labour as it is under the Conservatives.

    Much hilarity has been generated here by Diane Abbott, but was Sir Michael Fallon always this inept? Thinking Peston as well as Guru Murthy.
    He's been deployed as a reliable attack dog before, and is so mundane he is forgettable otherwise, so I assume he has been thought of as a steady pair of hands.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Do Labour candidates wish they had put Corbyn's picture on their leaflets after all?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Which is more damaging to the country - five years of Jeremy Corbyn or decades of car crash Brexit?

    The answer isn't obvious.

    Not sure, but five years of Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit is the fast track to Venezuela.
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    oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    Charles said:

    Corporate debt is priced at a premium to sovereign debt but the sovereign debt premium vs T-bonds will go up (so our debt is more expensive) - this is over all UK government debt so in absolute terms even more. Corporates will raise funds in other currencies to minimise the impact.

    I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Those corporates would be idiots. The money-printing genie is out of the bottle; the UK cannot default in sterling, it can always create more sterling.

    The risk if this is used outside of a global recession caused by a collapse in credit and demand (and one day it surely will be now the politicians and speculators know where the sweetie jar lives) is therefore not default, it's hyperinflation as people rightly view repayment with printed money as a crypto-default and treat sterling as monopoly money.

    The corporates who continued to borrow in sterling would see their debt inflated away relative to their assets. The corporates who borrowed in swiss francs would be crucified.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:


    New Scotland poll ?

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/

    NAT SINKING FEELING Shock poll shows SNP at three-year low with 32 MPs ‘at risk’ as General Election race tightens

    It's part of the Survey Monkey poll.

    I'm not going to read too much into it.

    17 Scottish Tory MPs, 12 SLab MPs, SNP down to 24 MPs.

    I'm filing that in the Angus Reid folder.
    Me, I'm not greedy, I'd be happy if the snp reduced to the 40s, very happy if it was mid 40s, and if they dipped into the thirties? Wonderful times.

    Would help Corbyn get close to 200 seats or above though.

    32 seats at risk though, I cannot credit that.
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk, May could fail to make a net gain of more than 10 Labour seats in England and Wales and still have a majority comfortably over 50 thanks to Scotland
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk then my seriously dodgy 10/1 on them missing out on a seat majority might come off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking. Still, a man can dream.
    Certainly and Davidson has Sturgeon on the back foot, though I can's see the SNP getting less than 45 myself, they will lose barely any seats in Glasgow and Dundee and the Central Belt, the big swings against them will be in the borders and rural Scotland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen
    Is Davidson more strong and more stable than May?
    Take a much stronger wind to blow her over versus May

    Is the wind of change blowing across Scotland?
    No, just the SNP gale has reduced a bit, meaning it is safe for some others to step outside.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    It's a 'clear mark'
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    The replies to that tweet are a object lesson in Corbynite delusions. Apparently the NI Peace Process happened because of 27 years of spadework being put in by Jezza.... the Nobel Peace Prize can only be days away.

    Strangely no one seems able to find a incident of him meeting with (former) loyalist terrorists under similar circumstances.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited May 2017
    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited May 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    It's a clear mark. It'll count.

    Edit: The always on-the-ball Pulpstar got there first
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    The replies to that tweet are a object lesson in Corbynite delusions. Apparently the NI Peace Process happened because of 27 years of spadework being put in by Jezza.... the Nobel Peace Prize can only be days away.

    Strangely no one seems able to find a incident of him meeting with (former) loyalist terrorists under similar circumstances.
    At its most charitable, Corbyn overplays his role in events on this issue, and his arch-supporters definitely do.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Do Labour candidates wish they had put Corbyn's picture on their leaflets after all?

    Some of them.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,338



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms. Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style. My anecdotal impression from a small number of conversations (half a dozen) is also that the intensity of the "he's a terrorist sympathiser" campaign is alienating some women voters, who think it's simply unfair on this mild old chap and the Tories are just doing a hatchet job.

    Looking at the YouGov tables, I see that although Labour has gone down 2 (almost entirely because "don't knows" have shifted by 4 in their "leaning" tendency), Corbyn's rating has improved further by net +7. Note also that YouGov does weight by stated certainty to vote - the difference from ICM is that ICM weights by whether people say they voted last time (which means that first-time voters are automatically weighted down).
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    kle4 said:

    Do Labour candidates wish they had put Corbyn's picture on their leaflets after all?

    Some of them.
    Jim Cunningham in Coventry South ought to have done so in St Michaels ward for sure.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
    I successfully argued for a vote at a borough council election where someone had written a short obscenity within the box next to my name.

    The returning officer happened to be a good friend of mine of long standing from our local cricket club and he never let me live it down.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
    All Labour voters should be encouraged to scrub out their candidate's name and write in "Not that IRA-loving Jeremy". I'm sure it will be fine....
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    calum said:
    Her voice really grates and I can't be arsed to watch it.
    Who does she pick,. please?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms.
    I'll go further - most people do not, even if they say they do.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,114
    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    kle4 said:



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms.
    I'll go further - most people do not, even if they say they do.
    I'll give that a definite AGREE
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    JonWCJonWC Posts: 285

    isam said:
    Christ almighty!!! I don't have much confidence in May/ Rudd, but I simply don't understand how anyone can countenance her as Home Secretary. For this reason, though I will probably need the requisite nose-peg and surgical gloves, at the age of 53 I will be voting Tory on June 8 for the first (and I hope only) time in my life.

    isam said:
    Christ almighty!!! I don't have much confidence in May/ Rudd, but I simply don't understand how anyone can countenance her as Home Secretary. For this reason, though I will probably need the requisite nose-peg and surgical gloves, at the age of 53 I will be voting Tory on June 8 for the first (and I hope only) time in my life.

    isam said:
    Christ almighty!!! I don't have much confidence in May/ Rudd, but I simply don't understand how anyone can countenance her as Home Secretary. For this reason, though I will probably need the requisite nose-peg and surgical gloves, at the age of 53 I will be voting Tory on June 8 for the first (and I hope only) time in my life.
    Likewise, except I am 46. Sent off my postal this morning - I was wearing gardening gloves rather than surgical gloves though as it went into the postbox.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Pulpstar said:

    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.

    As I posted last night, Sheffield Central has the largest % of 16-24 of any constituency.

    However that does not mean it is representative of anywhere other than Labour inner-city seats.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,242
    kle4 said:



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms.
    I'll go further - most people do not, even if they say they do.
    Well, some of the 8% have probably had the fear of God put into them of losing their home for social care.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    GeoffM said:

    calum said:
    Her voice really grates and I can't be arsed to watch it.
    Who does she pick,. please?
    Ducked it of course, what else could she do?

    Doesn't want Tory government which is bad for Scotland, but says Labour has to answer for putting up a leader with a credibility problem (although does phrase it as 'lacks credibility in terms of people's perception of his ability to be PM'), so the only strong voice for Scotland is SNP.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    kle4 said:



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms.
    I'll go further - most people do not, even if they say they do.
    Well, some of the 8% have probably had the fear of God put into them of losing their home for social care.
    Corbyn's Labour seems a strange harbour to head towards if they are worried about losing wealth.....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    On topic, I think to get your own Sion Simon moment you need something to stand out, and make it truly your own style of wrong prediction. Should have had a reference to Hannibal in the title (again).
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited May 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.

    As I posted last night, Sheffield Central has the largest % of 16-24 of any constituency.

    However that does not mean it is representative of anywhere other than Labour inner-city seats.
    Oh I know, seats like Sheffield Central really won't be important in the election. That's not really my point though. Due to the demographic profile, and the only seat above 30% that you posted it is the quickest method to determine whether Corbyn has got the youth to come out this time round. Last GE it was ~ 55.7% turnout, and 58% or so Labour. So plenty of scope for (Electorally useless) improvement from Labour here.
    If Blomfeld gets over 30,000 votes say then I don't think anyone will be able to accuse the young vote of not getting to the polling booths.
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017

    Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style.

    Yes, we remember his calm, polite approach on that Sky interview when asked if he was going to be leader in 2020... and his calm, polite approach to handling journalists, and not forgetting his calm, polite approach when about campaigning with Sadiq

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1304140/Angry-Corbyn-confronts-reporter-accusing-cowardice.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510555/Calm-Jeremy-Labour-leader-Corbyn-nearly-snaps-s-confronted-critics-campaigning-mayoral-hopeful-Sadiq-Khan.html
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,680

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Floater said:
    Being genuine now, apart from Abbott, I cannot think of more than the occasional poor moment during the Labour campaign. She has had several, there have been one or two other examples, and Corbyn has had a pretty decent go of it, so she is the only one really messing up their message - because even where she is on message she delivers poorly.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    edited May 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has the Tories winning 8% of 2015 Labour voters and Labour winning 8% of 2015 Tory voters. The Tories are winning 23% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Tories. Labour are winning 19% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Labour voters. 56% of 2015 UKIP voters have gone to the Tories and 15% to Labour.

    51% of 2016 EU referendum Remain voters are voting Labour, 24% Tory and 15% LD, 64% of referendum Leave voters are voting Tory, 20% Labour and 8% UKIP
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf

    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???
    Most likely under 45 Remain voters with home owning parents (though of course Labour would reverse most of Osborne's IHT cut and the Tories will now cap care costs)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style.

    Yes, we remember his calm, polite approach on that Sky interview when asked if he was going to be leader in 2020... and his calm, polite approach to handling journalists, and not forgetting his calm, polite approach when about campaigning with Sadiq

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1304140/Angry-Corbyn-confronts-reporter-accusing-cowardice.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510555/Calm-Jeremy-Labour-leader-Corbyn-nearly-snaps-s-confronted-critics-campaigning-mayoral-hopeful-Sadiq-Khan.html
    In general, he has a calm, polite style. Certainly he has lost his cool on occasion, but when he doesn't lose it, and he has had a good campaign, he has a laid back kind of appeal which makes him seem more reasonable than may be the case.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    kle4 said:



    Who are those 8% of 2015 Tory voters going Labour??? If there is one suspect number in their findings, it has to be that one. "Yeah, I really liked that Toff Corbyn, but the vicar's daughter puts me right off, so I'm voting for the old Trot...."

    From Toff to Trot is some political journey. I can imagine a few making it. But 8%???

    Not everyone thinks in left-right terms.
    I'll go further - most people do not, even if they say they do.
    Well, some of the 8% have probably had the fear of God put into them of losing their home for social care.
    Corbyn's Labour seems a strange harbour to head towards if they are worried about losing wealth.....
    It does, but people are not always rational.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has the Tories winning 8% of 2015 Labour voters and Labour winning 8% of 2015 Tory voters. The Tories are winning 23% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Tories. Labour are winning 19% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Labour voters. 56% of 2015 UKIP voters have gone to the Tories and 15% to Labour.

    51% of 2016 EU referendum Remain voters are voting Labour, 24% Tory and 15% LD, 64% of referendum Leave voters are voting Tory, 20% Labour and 8% UKIP
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf

    Lib Dems net switching to both Conservative and Labour - means Lib Dems losing seats rather than winning seats.
    Unless tactical voting yes
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:


    New Scotland poll ?

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/

    NAT SINKING FEELING Shock poll shows SNP at three-year low with 32 MPs ‘at risk’ as General Election race tightens

    It's part of the Survey Monkey poll.

    I'm not going to read too much into it.

    17 Scottish Tory MPs, 12 SLab MPs, SNP down to 24 MPs.

    I'm filing that in the Angus Reid folder.
    Me, I'm not greedy, I'd be happy if the snp reduced to the 40s, very happy if it was mid 40s, and if they dipped into the thirties? Wonderful times.

    Would help Corbyn get close to 200 seats or above though.

    32 seats at risk though, I cannot credit that.
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk, May could fail to make a net gain of more than 10 Labour seats in England and Wales and still have a majority comfortably over 50 thanks to Scotland
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk then my seriously dodgy 10/1 on them missing out on a seat majority might come off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking. Still, a man can dream.
    Certainly and Davidson has Sturgeon on the back foot, though I can's see the SNP getting less than 45 myself, they will lose barely any seats in Glasgow and Dundee and the Central Belt, the big swings against them will be in the borders and rural Scotland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen
    Is Davidson more strong and more stable than May?
    Take a much stronger wind to blow her over versus May

    Is the wind of change blowing across Scotland?
    The SNP are still solidly over 40% - the big surprise is SLAB's resliance - they could still pip SCON for 2nd place should things deteriorate further for the Tories. I think the SNP will focus on them protecting pensioners from the ravages of the Dementia tax etc - they now have a good way of targeting their weakest demographic.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:


    New Scotland poll ?

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/

    NAT SINKING FEELING Shock poll shows SNP at three-year low with 32 MPs ‘at risk’ as General Election race tightens

    It's part of the Survey Monkey poll.

    I'm not going to read too much into it.

    17 Scottish Tory MPs, 12 SLab MPs, SNP down to 24 MPs.

    I'm filing that in the Angus Reid folder.
    Me, I'm not greedy, I'd be happy if the snp reduced to the 40s, very happy if it was mid 40s, and if they dipped into the thirties? Wonderful times.

    Would help Corbyn get close to 200 seats or above though.

    32 seats at risk though, I cannot credit that.
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk, May could fail to make a net gain of more than 10 Labour seats in England and Wales and still have a majority comfortably over 50 thanks to Scotland
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk then my seriously dodgy 10/1 on them missing out on a seat majority might come off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking. Still, a man can dream.
    Certainly and Davidson has Sturgeon on the back foot, though I can's see the SNP getting less than 45 myself, they will lose barely any seats in Glasgow and Dundee and the Central Belt, the big swings against them will be in the borders and rural Scotland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen
    Is Davidson more strong and more stable than May?
    Take a much stronger wind to blow her over versus May
    Are you suggesting the Blessed Ruth is a Weeble?

    Weebles wobble - but they don't fall down. Sounds more apt for the Blessed Theresa!
    Let's just say she has a much lower centre of gravity than Theresa. Kind of shetland pony versus thoroughbred
  • Options
    JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    Charles said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Charles said:


    Except that your interest costs go up because investors will want a default risk premium because you may just unilaterally repudiate your commitments in future.

    And the cost of big investments such as the Super Sewer will be on balance sheet do over time will be skimped on

    When was the last time the UK defaulted?
    On debt I think it may be never (or at least post Parliamentary government) - but certainly a long time ago

    But "default risk" is just a term for the risk premium than investors demand over 10 year Treasuries which are officially viewed as "risk free". It isn't limited to just the risk of default.
    I don't think that is quite right.. default risk on a sterling instrument would be assessed with respect to the gilt of comparable maturity which is assumed risk free in a certain sense. You've got to take account of interest rate expectations in the issuing currency.

    That said you can buy CDS (default insurance) on both UK and US sovereign debt and the cost of doing so is definitely not zero. That is even true of triple A rated countries.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:


    New Scotland poll ?

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1069407/poll-snp-mp-at-risk-three-year-low-general-election/

    NAT SINKING FEELING Shock poll shows SNP at three-year low with 32 MPs ‘at risk’ as General Election race tightens

    It's part of the Survey Monkey poll.

    I'm not going to read too much into it.

    17 Scottish Tory MPs, 12 SLab MPs, SNP down to 24 MPs.

    I'm filing that in the Angus Reid folder.
    Me, I'm not greedy, I'd be happy if the snp reduced to the 40s, very happy if it was mid 40s, and if they dipped into the thirties? Wonderful times.

    Would help Corbyn get close to 200 seats or above though.

    32 seats at risk though, I cannot credit that.
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk, May could fail to make a net gain of more than 10 Labour seats in England and Wales and still have a majority comfortably over 50 thanks to Scotland
    If 32 SNP seats are at risk then my seriously dodgy 10/1 on them missing out on a seat majority might come off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking. Still, a man can dream.
    Certainly and Davidson has Sturgeon on the back foot, though I can's see the SNP getting less than 45 myself, they will lose barely any seats in Glasgow and Dundee and the Central Belt, the big swings against them will be in the borders and rural Scotland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen
    Is Davidson more strong and more stable than May?
    Take a much stronger wind to blow her over versus May

    Is the wind of change blowing across Scotland?
    Not a chance, a vile stench is rising more liek
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov regional subsamples now up

    London
    Con 38
    Lab 44
    LD 13
    UKIP 3

    South
    Con 50
    Lab 25
    LD 16
    UKIP 5

    Midlands and Wales
    Con 46
    Lab 42
    LD 4
    UKIP 5

    North
    Con 38
    Lab 49
    LD 7
    UKIP 5

    Scotland
    Con 30
    SNP 40
    LD 4
    UKIP 0

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf


    The Scottish subsample is almost identical to the much-derided Surveymonkey poll. #justsaying
    Yes, Davidson looks like having the best election night of all
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    LOL
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    kle4 said:

    Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style.

    Yes, we remember his calm, polite approach on that Sky interview when asked if he was going to be leader in 2020... and his calm, polite approach to handling journalists, and not forgetting his calm, polite approach when about campaigning with Sadiq

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1304140/Angry-Corbyn-confronts-reporter-accusing-cowardice.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510555/Calm-Jeremy-Labour-leader-Corbyn-nearly-snaps-s-confronted-critics-campaigning-mayoral-hopeful-Sadiq-Khan.html
    In general, he has a calm, polite style. Certainly he has lost his cool on occasion, but when he doesn't lose it, and he has had a good campaign, he has a laid back kind of appeal which makes him seem more reasonable than may be the case.
    True he was a lot calmer on Preston than Fallon was
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    Which is more damaging to the country - five years of Jeremy Corbyn or decades of car crash Brexit?

    The answer isn't obvious.

    Corbyn, as he would still do Brexit and do economic damage on top. May with a majority of 50-100 might be more likely to compromise a little with the EU
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has the Tories winning 8% of 2015 Labour voters and Labour winning 8% of 2015 Tory voters. The Tories are winning 23% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Tories. Labour are winning 19% of 2015 LDs and the LDs winning 6% of 2015 Labour voters. 56% of 2015 UKIP voters have gone to the Tories and 15% to Labour.

    51% of 2016 EU referendum Remain voters are voting Labour, 24% Tory and 15% LD, 64% of referendum Leave voters are voting Tory, 20% Labour and 8% UKIP
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf

    Lib Dems net switching to both Conservative and Labour - means Lib Dems losing seats rather than winning seats.
    Unless tactical voting yes
    Most people don't really have a clue as to the exact dynamics of their constituency. It is what wonks like us spend our time working out. The biggest tactical shift of all though will be the electorally useless UKIP votes from 2015 piling up for May though !
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style.

    Yes, we remember his calm, polite approach on that Sky interview when asked if he was going to be leader in 2020... and his calm, polite approach to handling journalists, and not forgetting his calm, polite approach when about campaigning with Sadiq

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1304140/Angry-Corbyn-confronts-reporter-accusing-cowardice.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510555/Calm-Jeremy-Labour-leader-Corbyn-nearly-snaps-s-confronted-critics-campaigning-mayoral-hopeful-Sadiq-Khan.html
    In general, he has a calm, polite style. Certainly he has lost his cool on occasion, but when he doesn't lose it, and he has had a good campaign, he has a laid back kind of appeal which makes him seem more reasonable than may be the case.
    True he was a lot calmer on Preston than Fallon was
    Peston this auto spell checker.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    nunu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov regional subsamples now up

    London
    Con 38
    Lab 44
    LD 13
    UKIP 3

    South
    Con 50
    Lab 25
    LD 16
    UKIP 5

    Midlands and Wales
    Con 46
    Lab 42
    LD 4
    UKIP 5

    North
    Con 38
    Lab 49
    LD 7
    UKIP 5

    Scotland
    Con 30
    SNP 40
    Lab 25
    LD 4
    UKIP 0

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf


    Labour an asterisk in Scotland now?
    Sorry, they are up 1% on 2015 to 25%
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.

    As I posted last night, Sheffield Central has the largest % of 16-24 of any constituency.

    However that does not mean it is representative of anywhere other than Labour inner-city seats.
    Oh I know, seats like Sheffield Central really won't be important in the election. That's not really my point though. Due to the demographic profile, and the only seat above 30% that you posted it is the quickest method to determine whether Corbyn has got the youth to come out this time round. Last GE it was ~ 55.7% turnout, and 58% or so Labour. So plenty of scope for (Electorally useless) improvement from Labour here.
    If Blomfeld gets over 30,000 votes say then I don't think anyone will be able to accuse the young vote of not getting to the polling booths.
    But the Youth vote is more than just places like Sheffield Central, Liverpool Riverside and Manchester Central etc. Those are simply the areas it is most concentrated. I don't doubt that it will be a good turnout for Labour in those seats, i'm just dubious that they will be representative of the Youth vote nation-wide.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    Corbyn appeals to people who are disiollusioned with the Government for some reason (there is always a chunk of 30+% who feel that way) and who like his calm, polite style.

    Yes, we remember his calm, polite approach on that Sky interview when asked if he was going to be leader in 2020... and his calm, polite approach to handling journalists, and not forgetting his calm, polite approach when about campaigning with Sadiq

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1304140/Angry-Corbyn-confronts-reporter-accusing-cowardice.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510555/Calm-Jeremy-Labour-leader-Corbyn-nearly-snaps-s-confronted-critics-campaigning-mayoral-hopeful-Sadiq-Khan.html
    In general, he has a calm, polite style. Certainly he has lost his cool on occasion, but when he doesn't lose it, and he has had a good campaign, he has a laid back kind of appeal which makes him seem more reasonable than may be the case.
    True he was a lot calmer on Preston than Fallon was
    I remember watching his victory speech when elected leader, and he was suddenly a lot more animated in manner than at any point I could recall during the campaign itself it was quite the change when he gets into 'rally the troops with fiery rhetoric' mode rather than 'soothing gentle tone' mode.

    It's a sound tactic a lot of the time - remain calm, to the point of infuriating your opponent, and observers might think by default you must be the reasonable one, even when this is not the case.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    calum said:
    Sophy announced Kezia as the "Scottish labia" leader and then hastily changed it to Labour. Strange thoughts during a political interview.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov regional subsamples now up

    London
    Con 38
    Lab 44
    LD 13
    UKIP 3

    South
    Con 50
    Lab 25
    LD 16
    UKIP 5

    Midlands and Wales
    Con 46
    Lab 42
    LD 4
    UKIP 5

    North
    Con 38
    Lab 49
    LD 7
    UKIP 5

    Scotland
    Con 30
    SNP 40
    Lab 25
    LD 4
    UKIP 0

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l2akbktir9/SundayTimesResults_170526_VI_W.pdf


    Labour an asterisk in Scotland now?
    Sorry, they are up 1% on 2015 to 25%
    Very decent, in the circumstances.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    JPJ2 said:

    HYUFD

    On Perth and North Perthshire you are missing the point that for a couple of decades natural Labour supporters have already been voting SNP to keep the Tories out.

    The Tories will be very unlikely to defeat a 10K SNP majority on a straight SNP to Tory swing (particularly as this is not a significant fishing constituency).

    On Aberdeen South (even though you don't seem to realise it, you are really agreeing with my analysis about what will decide the issue) it will indeed be decided by whether ant-SNP is a bigger motivator than ant-Tory.

    On today's polls the Tories would take Perth and North Perthshire on the SNP to Tory swing, even if Labour voters who have voted SNP before stick with the SNP.

    Aberdeen South is less likely but if the Tories do take it it will be on indyref2
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    HYUFD said:

    Which is more damaging to the country - five years of Jeremy Corbyn or decades of car crash Brexit?

    The answer isn't obvious.

    Corbyn, as he would still do Brexit and do economic damage on top. May with a majority of 50-100 might be more likely to compromise a little with the EU
    Do we have any evidence that the EU is remotely interested in a compromise.

    If we suppose for a moment that when it comes to it, only option on the table is F*ck-off-BrExit, something completely unacceptable that no leader would have chance of selling to the country, and that they are completely uninterested in having us back after all the hassles we have caused. Would you then prefer a government with a moderate majority, or one with a massive majority.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Corporate debt is priced at a premium to sovereign debt but the sovereign debt premium vs T-bonds will go up (so our debt is more expensive) - this is over all UK government debt so in absolute terms even more. Corporates will raise funds in other currencies to minimise the impact.

    I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Those corporates would be idiots. The money-printing genie is out of the bottle; the UK cannot default in sterling, it can always create more sterling.

    The risk if this is used outside of a global recession caused by a collapse in credit and demand (and one day it surely will be now the politicians and speculators know where the sweetie jar lives) is therefore not default, it's hyperinflation as people rightly view repayment with printed money as a crypto-default and treat sterling as monopoly money.

    The corporates who continued to borrow in sterling would see their debt inflated away relative to their assets. The corporates who borrowed in swiss francs would be crucified.
    No, they wouldn't. Corporates who raise money in the capital markets are usually MNCs with income and expenses outside the UK. It makes sense to match assets and liabilities and income/expenses. They should take the cost of financing into account bug should not be spectulating on future macro economic movements
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    kle4 said:

    GeoffM said:

    calum said:
    Her voice really grates and I can't be arsed to watch it.
    Who does she pick,. please?
    Ducked it of course, what else could she do?

    Doesn't want Tory government which is bad for Scotland, but says Labour has to answer for putting up a leader with a credibility problem (although does phrase it as 'lacks credibility in terms of people's perception of his ability to be PM'), so the only strong voice for Scotland is SNP.
    So she told teh truth , both options are just cheeks of the same arse, ducked nothing and highlighted that there is no good option for Scotland , even if SNP have 59 seats, England rules.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,242

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.

    As I posted last night, Sheffield Central has the largest % of 16-24 of any constituency.

    However that does not mean it is representative of anywhere other than Labour inner-city seats.
    Oh I know, seats like Sheffield Central really won't be important in the election. That's not really my point though. Due to the demographic profile, and the only seat above 30% that you posted it is the quickest method to determine whether Corbyn has got the youth to come out this time round. Last GE it was ~ 55.7% turnout, and 58% or so Labour. So plenty of scope for (Electorally useless) improvement from Labour here.
    If Blomfeld gets over 30,000 votes say then I don't think anyone will be able to accuse the young vote of not getting to the polling booths.
    But the Youth vote is more than just places like Sheffield Central, Liverpool Riverside and Manchester Central etc. Those are simply the areas it is most concentrated. I don't doubt that it will be a good turnout for Labour in those seats, i'm just dubious that they will be representative of the Youth vote nation-wide.
    The youth in Sheffield might be turning out for the Green.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:
    Being genuine now, apart from Abbott, I cannot think of more than the occasional poor moment during the Labour campaign. She has had several, there have been one or two other examples, and Corbyn has had a pretty decent go of it, so she is the only one really messing up their message - because even where she is on message she delivers poorly.
    True they should use Emily Thornberry more.Dianne Abbot is very poor even with all that media experience with Andrew Neil on this week .In contrast John McDonnell is good in interviews whatever you think of his views.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited May 2017
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    GeoffM said:

    calum said:
    Her voice really grates and I can't be arsed to watch it.
    Who does she pick,. please?
    Ducked it of course, what else could she do?

    Doesn't want Tory government which is bad for Scotland, but says Labour has to answer for putting up a leader with a credibility problem (although does phrase it as 'lacks credibility in terms of people's perception of his ability to be PM'), so the only strong voice for Scotland is SNP.
    So she told teh truth , both options are just cheeks of the same arse, ducked nothing and highlighted that there is no good option for Scotland , even if SNP have 59 seats, England rules.
    It wasn't a criticism - she doesn't want either to be PM, nor does she want the PM to have control over Scotland in the first place, so she refused to answer the basic premise of the question.

    It may be true both are bad for Scotland, but she could have answered which would be the most bad if she wanted, but what benefit would there be to doing that? No one is going to be surprised and change their vote because she might in theory prefer Corbyn over May or vice-versa and refused to confirm that.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quickest way to gauge whether or not the "youth" has turned out (For Corbyn) will be to look at the Sheffield Central turnout, and see how much Paul Blomfeld is up by.

    As I posted last night, Sheffield Central has the largest % of 16-24 of any constituency.

    However that does not mean it is representative of anywhere other than Labour inner-city seats.
    Oh I know, seats like Sheffield Central really won't be important in the election. That's not really my point though. Due to the demographic profile, and the only seat above 30% that you posted it is the quickest method to determine whether Corbyn has got the youth to come out this time round. Last GE it was ~ 55.7% turnout, and 58% or so Labour. So plenty of scope for (Electorally useless) improvement from Labour here.
    If Blomfeld gets over 30,000 votes say then I don't think anyone will be able to accuse the young vote of not getting to the polling booths.
    But the Youth vote is more than just places like Sheffield Central, Liverpool Riverside and Manchester Central etc. Those are simply the areas it is most concentrated. I don't doubt that it will be a good turnout for Labour in those seats, i'm just dubious that they will be representative of the Youth vote nation-wide.
    The youth in Sheffield might be turning out for the Green.
    Corbyn will get alot this time round. Alot of young people believe in his message, they're just going to get seriously outnumbered by pensioners.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @carldinnen: Serious question @HackneyAbbott - Did you support the IRA when you were a trainee at the Home Office?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,114
    Something to give those hoping for a Scottish labia surge pause for thought.

    'Scottish Labour accused of 'giving up' in General Election contests after internal leak

    SCOTTISH Labour has been accused of “giving up” in General Election contests after leaked data revealed the number of voters contacted by the party has plummeted by over 80 per cent.
    ...In total, the number of contacts fell from 71,179 in the equivalent week at the 2015 general election, to 12,155.'

    http://tinyurl.com/y7hzoh57
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,680
    If only the old bigots were more like the young:

    Election Data @election_data
    ·ICM have 65% of voters approving of the death penalty for acts of terrorism, including 60% of 18-24 yr olds.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    If only the old bigots were more like the young:

    Election Data @election_data
    ·ICM have 65% of voters approving of the death penalty for acts of terrorism, including 60% of 18-24 yr olds.

    Yes, people tend to overdo the 'it's the old people' criticism of that particular issue, I have little doubt.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,455

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    Current relations with world sponsor of terror Saudi Arabia are a far more fruitful seam of hypocrisy, and one that Labour would do well to remind people of.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,567
    edited May 2017

    Something to give those hoping for a Scottish labia surge pause for thought.

    Calling Mr T, Scotland has need of your stimulations..
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,680

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
    Or by losing the military campaign?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    Any news on Survation?

    Good question. The previous one had figures of Con 43, Lab 34, LD 8, UKIP 4, Green 2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017#2017
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    HYUFD said:

    Which is more damaging to the country - five years of Jeremy Corbyn or decades of car crash Brexit?

    The answer isn't obvious.

    Corbyn, as he would still do Brexit and do economic damage on top. May with a majority of 50-100 might be more likely to compromise a little with the EU
    Do we have any evidence that the EU is remotely interested in a compromise.

    If we suppose for a moment that when it comes to it, only option on the table is F*ck-off-BrExit, something completely unacceptable that no leader would have chance of selling to the country, and that they are completely uninterested in having us back after all the hassles we have caused. Would you then prefer a government with a moderate majority, or one with a massive majority.
    If the EU refuses to budge on 100 billion Euros for any form of trade deal or trade agreements then clearly no deal at all will be done. However if they are willing to meet May halfway on payments then some agreements may be possible, if May is also perhaps willing to agree some form of job offer requirement to come to the UK. It will not be soft Brexit and single market as May will end free movement and not pay all the EU demands, however it might not be full, hard Brexit either, even if no full FTA is likely within 2 years
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,114

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    Current relations with world sponsor of terror Saudi Arabia are a far more fruitful seam of hypocrisy, and one that Labour would do well to remind people of.
    I agree absolutely.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
    Or by losing the military campaign?
    Oh did we win then? I must have missed the victory celebrations.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,127
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
    Please reassure me that by writing "None of them" diagonally across all the candidates' names I have safely spoiled my ballot!
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
    Please reassure me that by writing "None of them" diagonally across all the candidates' names I have safely spoiled my ballot!
    Yes!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,680

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
    Or by losing the military campaign?
    Oh did we win then? I must have missed the victory celebrations.
    Is Ireland united? I must have missed the lowering of the Union flag.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    For what it's worth, Electoral Calculus translate those Surveymonkey poll ratings into:

    SNP 41
    Con 15
    Lab 3

    I expect the SNP total would be closer to 41 than 24 on a 39% poll share.

    LDs would also probably have 3 seats there.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?
    Corbyn wasn't the one involved in the secret dialogue between both sides that led to peace, which needed to involve both sides realising the situation could not be won as they had been aiming for.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,945
    edited May 2017

    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?

    Can you let me know a) what compromises you think Corbyn should make to ISIS and b) how he practically ought to start dialogue? Thanks.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Most Watched

    1 'I don't have same hair, I don't have same views'
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Something to give those hoping for a Scottish labia surge pause for thought.

    'Scottish Labour accused of 'giving up' in General Election contests after internal leak

    SCOTTISH Labour has been accused of “giving up” in General Election contests after leaked data revealed the number of voters contacted by the party has plummeted by over 80 per cent.
    ...In total, the number of contacts fell from 71,179 in the equivalent week at the 2015 general election, to 12,155.'

    http://tinyurl.com/y7hzoh57

    The bigger question is what the Hell were those 71,179 saying in 2015?

    At least now they are admitting they have nothing to say.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
    Or by losing the military campaign?
    Oh did we win then? I must have missed the victory celebrations.
    "This is not a day for soundbites"...
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    But it is a very safe seat, South West Wiltshire - over 50% Tory, UKIP second last time but not standing this time, LDs pushed to fourth last time.

    Well seeing as the seat is very very safe Tory, go with your "heart"; the calculation would be different if you were in a marginal.
    My heart is like my gut - unreliable and vacillating.
    Write "Farron out" in the Lib Dem box. Keep it entirely within the box.
    Writing Farron out within the box will be regarded as a spolit vote since it is not a vote in favour of anyone.
    I've seen votes accepted where there was a mark in the Labour box, but the voter had crossed out the candidates name and written 'Aneurin Bevan'.
    Please reassure me that by writing "None of them" diagonally across all the candidates' names I have safely spoiled my ballot!
    I wouldn't risk doing it that way. The best way to spoil your ballot paper is by putting a cross in the box for every candidate. If you leave it blank there's always a risk someone at the count will sneakily put a mark in the box for one of the candidates while everyone is distracted by something else.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    If the utility companies were nationalised I think you could pretty much guarantee that within a very few years they would be making a loss rather than a profit with their services being subsidised out of the public purse which would still be straining to find the service charge of those bonds. It is a ridiculous idea.

    But British Gas was very profitable as a nationalised industry - as was Electricity and the Post Office.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?
    You beat them or they beat you.

    We know which option Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott wanted.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    I'm guessing Marty was definitely, definitely NOT a terrorist at this point.

    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/868620250664890368

    Given that's a Boris Bus (built in NI) in the background, which makes the photo 2013 or so, then that is a picture of the Mayor of London, Transport Secretary and NI Deputy First Minister.
    How many people did the IRA murder in 2013 - compared with 1983?
    And did McGuinness metamorphose from the commander of the Derry IRA to NI Deputy First Minister through dialogue or by banning his voice and having his words spoken by an actor?
    Or by losing the military campaign?
    Oh did we win then? I must have missed the victory celebrations.
    Is Ireland united? I must have missed the lowering of the Union flag.
    Perhaps it was a score draw after extra time.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Pulpstar said:

    Most Watched

    1 'I don't have same hair, I don't have same views'

    As John Maynard Keynes famously said "When my hair changes, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Mortimer said:

    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?

    Can you let me know a) what compromises you think Corbyn should make to ISIS and b) how he practically ought to start dialogue? Thanks.
    Who's talking about ISIS?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    isam said:

    Marvellous to see various PB Tories accept the power of redemption as embodied in late period Martin McGuinness. I'm sure they'll join with me in deploring the various goons on here hoping that he'd burn in hell after his recent shuffling off the stage.

    I won't although I'm not a PB Tory

    There is a difference though between actively supporting terrorists while they're killing people, and meeting them after a peace deal has been made.

    How do you move from one to the other except through dialogue?
    Dialogue doesn't have to be cheerleading
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Something to give those hoping for a Scottish labia surge pause for thought.

    'Scottish Labour accused of 'giving up' in General Election contests after internal leak

    SCOTTISH Labour has been accused of “giving up” in General Election contests after leaked data revealed the number of voters contacted by the party has plummeted by over 80 per cent.
    ...In total, the number of contacts fell from 71,179 in the equivalent week at the 2015 general election, to 12,155.'

    http://tinyurl.com/y7hzoh57

    The bigger question is what the Hell were those 71,179 saying in 2015?

    At least now they are admitting they have nothing to say.
    Not what SLAB wanted to hear !
  • Options
    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Just watching Ruth Davidson being quizzed by Gordon Brewer. If she is the answer to the Tory campaign problems then it must be a very silly question.

    This lady has been shown as comprehensively incoherent. Compared to this interview Theresa May was a model of clarity with Andrew Neil.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,242
    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    Any news on Survation?

    Good question. The previous one had figures of Con 43, Lab 34, LD 8, UKIP 4, Green 2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017#2017
    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/868778678485995521
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    Davidson lying profusely on Daily Politics. Said "I do not accepot " that SNP won last election and that there is "NO" support for independce. What a pompous bag of wind. Nothing but lying and evasion.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,197


    Do we have any evidence that the EU is remotely interested in a compromise.

    If we suppose for a moment that when it comes to it, only option on the table is F*ck-off-BrExit, something completely unacceptable that no leader would have chance of selling to the country, and that they are completely uninterested in having us back after all the hassles we have caused. Would you then prefer a government with a moderate majority, or one with a massive majority.


    The whole notion of 'I need an enormous majority to strengthen my hand for Brexit' was disingenuous to say the least. 'I need a big majority to look like the mega-star I am and to repeal The Countryside Act' would have been more truthful!

    I suspect that most centre-lefties would be more than happy with a Tory majority of not much different to 2015. Better than anything that puts Corbyn anywhere near the levers of government and the Conservatives short of a number with which they can do lasting damage!
This discussion has been closed.