You'd also think MI5 would cross-check their list of people of interest - which we all understand is too many to actively monitor - with passenger lists from places where ISIS has a strong presence, like Libya. There some obvious lines of enquiry that I'd expect various journalists soon to start digging into here?
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Those who did not vote Corbyn but did not vote for May, on the other hand, will merely be placed on a list of national deviants.
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Those who did not vote Corbyn but did not vote for May, on the other hand, will merely be placed on a list of national deviants.
Ah, I must find that old facebook post from a mad corbynista about making Tory voters identifiable so cuts only apply to them.
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Those who did not vote Corbyn but did not vote for May, on the other hand, will merely be placed on a list of national deviants.
Or if you voted for Farron or Nuttall sent to your local mental institution
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
I'm sure the US is doing its own investigation, but I would guess the names are first coming from the UK as we're the ones on the ground, and within hours some berks are telling the press.
Trump should fire a few more people when he gets back.
Just when you thought Milo couldn't be an even bigger dick
Sadly, Ariana Grande is too stupid to wise up and warn her European fans about the real threats to their freedom and their lives. She will remain ferociously pro-immigrant, pro-Islam and anti-America. Makes you wonder whether they bombed to attack her or in solidarity.
When Trump moans about FBI and CIA leaking, he's got a point, they seemed to provide a running commentary for the US press.
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
She will allow the election to go ahead but all voters suspected of voting for the treacherous, terrorist supporting Corbyn will be interned shortly afterwards as threats to national security
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
I'm sure the US is doing its own investigation, but I would guess the names are first coming from the UK as we're the ones on the ground, and within hours some berks are telling the press.
Trump should fire a few more people when he gets back.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
Honestly it seems to be cultural, legally and security wise the UK and US should be on a par, but US intelligence and security people seem far more inclined to do off-the-record briefing.
There is no real need for active campaigning before then
As someone said earlier on here GE1945 was contested during a war
Only technically: VE day 8 May, GE 5 July, VJ day 14 August. My (English) mum says that VE day felt like the end of the war for practical purposes, VJ just a footnote (quite an interesting footnote if you were interested in physics).
Well the Japanese were not about to either invade the UK or drop V2s on us, so there was no practical impediment to holding an election. I suppose a Tommy sweating in the Imjin might not agree with a civvy sat at home.
When Trump moans about FBI and CIA leaking, he's got a point, they seemed to provide a running commentary for the US press.
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
You'd also think MI5 would cross-check their list of people of interest - which we all understand is too many to actively monitor - with passenger lists from places where ISIS has a strong presence, like Libya. There some obvious lines of enquiry that I'd expect various journalists soon to start digging into here?
Too busy doorstepping victims' relatives and just discharged wounded.
When Trump moans about FBI and CIA leaking, he's got a point, they seemed to provide a running commentary for the US press.
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
Baffling. Trump is right to be critical of them.
That's the thing about Trump - occasionally, he does have a point. Rarely, and it doesn't excuse all the other crap he does, but he does occasionally highlight a genuine problem.
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
Why should we not have more armed police as well as soldiers. The French have armed police, armed CRS poised in their barracks and armed soldiers on the street. You can go to nice quiet Madeira and see armed police women even. In our case military personnel are being deployed to 'key sites' rather than 'on the streets'. If you care to look we have been having armed soldiers guarding bases and dockyards and nuclear power stations for quite some time. Sorry to disappoint but still no coup. 'Coup' being a much overused word these days.
I wonder if there'll still army on the streets on polling day. Perhaps even at polling stations. Wouldn't be surprised to see them at London train stations tomorrow. Last time we had the army on the streets was London Olympics I think, but that was totally different - to cover for G4S.
When Trump moans about FBI and CIA leaking, he's got a point, they seemed to provide a running commentary for the US press.
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
Baffling. Trump is right to be critical of them.
That's the thing about Trump - occasionally, he does have a point. Rarely, and it doesn't excuse all the other crap he does, but he does occasionally highlight a genuine problem.
He highlighted problems all through his campaign. It is why he won. Hilary's untrustworthiness, the failure of neo-Liberalism to deal with te GFC, immigrants depressing wages, etc. His solutions, however, are invariably batshit crazy!
I've been banned from Twitter by my girlfriend. She's a fierce 21 year old Corbynista, and she hates my right wing views, even as we have lots of fun. She's told me she can't continue to go out with me, if I publicly air my vile, Thatcherite opinions, and, like the French at Dien Bien Phu, I have folded pathetically, and agreed. Because she is absurdly beautiful and sexy, and I am a sad pussywhipped middle aged man in a swoon. Oh god. And she will probably dump me in a week, anyway.
So I am afraid I might be overly vocal on here, for a while, until I find somewhere else to go. Or she chucks me.
1. Both Abedi and his brother were subject to files due to their potential sympathies and holidays.
2. On the IS claim, honestly hard to know, though viable, but its first channel of release was Nashir which historically was a known organ of record on claims to networked & remote control IS actions.
Didn't the americans hold a presidential election during the american civil war?
I've often wondered how free and fair a process it was.
They did.
We held a general election during the second world war.
When?
July 1945, WW2 did not end until August and the surrender of Japan
But the 1940 GE was cancelled.
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
Why should we not have more armed police as well as soldiers. The French have armed police, armed CRS poised in their barracks and armed soldiers on the street. You can go to nice quiet Madeira and see armed police women even. In our case military personnel are being deployed to 'key sites' rather than 'on the streets'. If you care to look we have been having armed soldiers guarding bases and dockyards and nuclear power stations for quite some time. Sorry to disappoint but still no coup. 'Coup' being a much overused word these days.
Because they cost a fortune to train, and we have been told we need to cut the Police budget. As ever it is a political choice. One made partially by TMay in her 6 years as Home Secretary and year as PM. She was deriding Labour for wanting 10000 extra officers. It is a choice.
TO go back to the previous thread I don't see how we can have many more days like today. Mrs May has been all over the news today and other party leaders nowhere - and it hardly seems possible that the party political aspects can be divorced from the governmental.
It typically will not be the bomb maker who makes the attack
Historically with the sorts of IRA, PLO, Red Brigade type of terrorist who often had nation state support that was true. With suicide bombers it ranges from total idiots, like in Glasgow, who appear to know nothing about explosives and die in their attack, to people who are carrying more sophisticated bombs made by others. That's why the forensics are so important to get ASAP, as the explosives and sophistication are a good clue as to whether it's Dave in his shed and he's now dead, or Mohammed carrying a bomb made by others.
No, look at Iraq as an example - the bomb makers are to valuable to use as expendable foot soldiers
Strange how the leaders of these terrorist organisations choose not to strap a vest on themselves and lead from the front. Even stranger that the sad oiks who are being persuaded to take one for the intifada haven't cottoned on either. ''Abdul... Unfortunately the rise of the Caliphate isn't going too well... we need a pointless sacrifice.... Abdul... I want you to grab a vest... nip across to Manchester... and don't some back... Goodbye Abdul.
Posted this way back on 25th March 2016 when there was much talk of hundreds of Jihadis returning from Syria.
This may or may not have a direct relation to this terrorist incident but its an indication that Libya was a place to be wary of:
'Ignore the Islamist component in Libya at your peril. That country has been churning out dangerous people for decades who are very prominent Jihadis for hire and is a very important link in the current IS European campaign.
People trained by a key IS sub group HQ'd in Libya are in the EU, now. I'd be as worried by those 25 or so a much as the rest of the reported 400.'
Posted this way back on 25th March 2016 when there was much talk of hundreds of Jihadis returning from Syria.
This may or may not have a direct relation to this terrorist incident but its an indication that Libya was a place to be wary of:
'Ignore the Islamist component in Libya at your peril. That country has been churning out dangerous people for decades who are very prominent Jihadis for hire and is a very important link in the current IS European campaign.
People trained by a key IS sub group HQ'd in Libya are in the EU, now. I'd be as worried by those 25 or so a much as the rest of the reported 400.'
TO go back to the previous thread I don't see how we can have many more days like today. Mrs May has been all over the news today and other party leaders nowhere - and it hardly seems possible that the party political aspects can be divorced from the governmental.
I'm thinking of starting a spoof facebook rumour that PMs should go round with a black bag over their head at times like this.
To be matched by the Leader of the Opposition walking round in his underpants.
Not the same, look at when the profile pic was last updated.
Since I don't have a Facebook account I can't that is why I wasn't sure if it was the same.
Ah, my apologies!
No worries, the only person of that name I could find does live in Dundee so it is possibly is true having now looked at the comments of the original tweet.
When Trump moans about FBI and CIA leaking, he's got a point, they seemed to provide a running commentary for the US press.
Yes. Every step of this investigations has been leaked by them, and Trump is safely away in the mid-east.
The question is then why they are doing it and what do they think that they'll gain by it. There a few lines here but none paint the leakers in particularly attractive light.
Baffling. Trump is right to be critical of them.
That's the thing about Trump - occasionally, he does have a point. Rarely, and it doesn't excuse all the other crap he does, but he does occasionally highlight a genuine problem.
He highlighted problems all through his campaign. It is why he won. Hilary's untrustworthiness, the failure of neo-Liberalism to deal with te GFC, immigrants depressing wages, etc. His solutions, however, are invariably batshit crazy!
I think that is fair comment. But to set against it there is all this Russian business and his administration choices are hardly inspiring.
I've voted Labour at every GE since 1983, but the prospect of Diane Abbot being in charge of the security services is in itself reason enough to vote Tory this time round - and I suspect after last night I won't be the only one who thinks that way.
You can still vote labour safely in the knowledge that they have no chance whatsoever of winning, the issue is how big (and undeserved) the tory majority is. Its a toss up between wanting to make sure that there is an opposition, and wanting not to prolong the misery of having Corbyn and Abbot etc and the naive hard left controlling the main opposition party. Quite a difficult decision. I don't know if I can bring myself to endorse Corbyn for the reasons you describe.
Yes, took me a lot of agonising, but I finally decided this weekend I will have to vote Tory - and that is my settled decision. I've been posting here off and on since 2005, and I never thought I'd live to become a PB Tory! But there we are.
You have decided to throw in your lot with the 'lower form of life' .
He couldn't resist the power of the dark side.
Well I have a niece in her mid-20s who works for the NHS and lives in Gower the most marginal seat in the country. Three weeks back she was talking in terms of voting for May -over Brexit in essence. I have no idea as to her present intentions but if I subsequently discover that she has voted Tory , she will cease to be a beneficiary of my estate. It would effectively cost her circa £75,000 - though she will never know that because I am saying nothing.
Is there some insane pb competition to construct the looniest post?
Mark Senior's was good, but this is better.
It is just a clear statement of my intentions!
If she reads PB, does that constitute an electoral offense ?
It does
But she would have to recognise me on here for that to be so! I could always deny any intent to bequeath her anything!
I've voted Labour at every GE since 1983, but the prospect of Diane Abbot being in charge of the security services is in itself reason enough to vote Tory this time round - and I suspect after last night I won't be the only one who thinks that way.
You can still vote labour safely in the knowledge that they have no chance whatsoever of winning, the issue is how big (and undeserved) the tory majority is. Its a toss up between wanting to make sure that there is an opposition, and wanting not to prolong the misery of having Corbyn and Abbot etc and the naive hard left controlling the main opposition party. Quite a difficult decision. I don't know if I can bring myself to endorse Corbyn for the reasons you describe.
Yes, took me a lot of agonising, but I finally decided this weekend I will have to vote Tory - and that is my settled decision. I've been posting here off and on since 2005, and I never thought I'd live to become a PB Tory! But there we are.
You have decided to throw in your lot with the 'lower form of life' .
He couldn't resist the power of the dark side.
Well I have a niece in her mid-20s who works for the NHS and lives in Gower the most marginal seat in the country. Three weeks back she was talking in terms of voting for May -over Brexit in essence. I have no idea as to her present intentions but if I subsequently discover that she has voted Tory , she will cease to be a beneficiary of my estate. It would effectively cost her circa £75,000 - though she will never know that because I am saying nothing.
Would that also be the case if she gave birth to a "bastard"?
I have previously removed another niece from my estate for that reason.
The PB Tories, and Sean, and - bizarrely - Cyclefree seem to have take leave of their senses today.
Corbyn is shite. He is a deluded old trot. But he has sod all to do with Manchester. Linking him with it because of the pro-IRA comments he has made in the distant past is utterly stupid, either from the media, or the Tory party itself.
May is going to win big anyway. Don't worry.
I have not linked Corbyn with Manchester.
I do question - and did so long before yesterday's tragedy - his judgment and, in particular, his judgment in thinking Abbott is fit to be Home Secretary.
I have said ever since he was a candidate for the Labour leadership that he lacks a moral compass. My views on him have not changed because of Manchester.
It is entirely legitimate to ask of a candidate for PM whether his previously expressed views and actions and failures to act - especially for someone whose USP is meant to be his consistently held principles - show him to have the right character and judgment for PM, especially with regard to security issues.
For crying out loud. I am on here dissing the boring, entitled, anti-meritocratic monarchy as "Britain's richest welfare recipients", from time to time. I guess you want to strap on the jack boots Rob and march me to the scaffold (at the Tower, naturally) ?
That's fine, but Abbott is in the record wishing for the defeat of the British, and victory for the IRA.
FFS Does anyone take Abbott seriously? She's significantly out of her depth. Can't stand that woman!
She is the official Opposition's candidate for Home Secretary, the person who would be in charge of those services charged with protecting us from events such as Manchester and Westminster and 7/7, agencies she has publicly sneered at.
I am not as sanguine as you are at that prospect, even if she is an idiot.
And it worries me that so many want to go soft on a party and its leader who think that this is at all acceptable. All this talk of good taste is cover for fear that the frankly childish and morally repulsive decisions made by the Labour party are going to have some light shed on them, not before time.
On the restart of the campaign Theresa May is due to attend the NATO meeting in Brussels with Trump on Thursday and then the G7 meeting in Italy at the weekend.
The news media here in Canada are highlighting Trudeau leaving for both meetings and saying that the Manchester attack will be central to both meetings and that Theresa May is chairing the G7 meeting on security.
I think any hope of the parties for focus on the GE is going to be crowded out by the media coverage of both these events.
Comments
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3624815/manchester-bombing-suspect-salman-abedi-pictured-terror-threat-level/
Putting my tinfoil hat on for a second, with no MPs and soldiers on the street, isn't this the perfect environment to launch a coup? Could we see Generalissimo May suspending democracy to keep us all safe?
If I am getting that pedantic, def time for bed.
Anyway Australia has more camels than any other country.
Trump should fire a few more people when he gets back.
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/867038674806091777
In our case military personnel are being deployed to 'key sites' rather than 'on the streets'.
If you care to look we have been having armed soldiers guarding bases and dockyards and nuclear power stations for quite some time.
Sorry to disappoint but still no coup. 'Coup' being a much overused word these days.
His solutions, however, are invariably batshit crazy!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber-know/
Oliver Cromwell, Henry Ireton and John Bradshaw will do.
1. Both Abedi and his brother were subject to files due to their potential sympathies and holidays.
2. On the IS claim, honestly hard to know, though viable, but its first channel of release was Nashir which historically was a known organ of record on claims to networked & remote control IS actions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/23/sam-allardyce-quits-crystal-palace-manager/
Even stranger that the sad oiks who are being persuaded to take one for the intifada haven't cottoned on either.
''Abdul... Unfortunately the rise of the Caliphate isn't going too well... we need a pointless sacrifice.... Abdul... I want you to grab a vest... nip across to Manchester... and don't some back... Goodbye Abdul.
This may or may not have a direct relation to this terrorist incident but its an indication that Libya was a place to be wary of:
'Ignore the Islamist component in Libya at your peril. That country has been churning out dangerous people for decades who are very prominent Jihadis for hire and is a very important link in the current IS European campaign.
People trained by a key IS sub group HQ'd in Libya are in the EU, now. I'd be as worried by those 25 or so a much as the rest of the reported 400.'
https://en-gb.facebook.com/alisteralbert.craigie
To be matched by the Leader of the Opposition walking round in his underpants.
But to set against it there is all this Russian business and his administration choices are hardly inspiring.
I do question - and did so long before yesterday's tragedy - his judgment and, in particular, his judgment in thinking Abbott is fit to be Home Secretary.
I have said ever since he was a candidate for the Labour leadership that he lacks a moral compass. My views on him have not changed because of Manchester.
It is entirely legitimate to ask of a candidate for PM whether his previously expressed views and actions and failures to act - especially for someone whose USP is meant to be his consistently held principles - show him to have the right character and judgment for PM, especially with regard to security issues.
I am not as sanguine as you are at that prospect, even if she is an idiot.
And it worries me that so many want to go soft on a party and its leader who think that this is at all acceptable. All this talk of good taste is cover for fear that the frankly childish and morally repulsive decisions made by the Labour party are going to have some light shed on them, not before time.
The news media here in Canada are highlighting Trudeau leaving for both meetings and saying that the Manchester attack will be central to both meetings and that Theresa May is chairing the G7 meeting on security.
I think any hope of the parties for focus on the GE is going to be crowded out by the media coverage of both these events.