Twitter Victoria Freeman @make_trouble 11m "We're gonna tell Barack Obama on you" makes Labour look so weak. Beseeching a leader far away for help gives impression you lack a leader.
I just find it really rather sad and pathetic. Labour could've recruited him - and they didn't. So now he wasn't worth having at all. But let's intimidate him on Twitter.
Newsnight are having a bit of breakdown over Mr Messina.
"It does not compute"
Newsnight perhaps then have not worked out that the Tories are closer ideologically to the Democrats than the Republicans, and closer than Labour are to the Democrats. Not too surprised.
This has perplexed me for a very long time. Labour love to say that the Tories are like the GOP - but they're clearly much closer to and sometimes to the left of the Dems on issues like gay marriage and state healthcare.
Maybe Messina has some idea on how a party in the centre (RINO) can avoid being pulled to the right by nutty fundamentalists (Tea Party)? Or how an opposing party might try to exploit that dynamic?
Can anyone tell me why Castro the kidnapper should not hang?
He spent a decade torturing and raping his hostages, and killing their babies.
He shows not an iota of remorse. He admits guilt. He blames his behaviour on 'addiction'. He is clearly sane. Also evil.
What does it benefit the world that he moulders away in jail? Kill him.
If there is someone who refuses to abide by the rules of our society, we have the right to exclude him from our society. This can be done internally (through life in jail) or externally (through exile).
We do not have the right to decide that he is worthless as an individual and therefore has no right to live. However despicable we may believe his actions to be.
No, I do think we have the right to decide that. I'm just not convinced that we would get it right often enough to follow through on the implications of that decision.
You are then arguing for moral absolutism by extension.
Our ways are the only right ways.
The reason why genocide (Nuremberg etc) are an exception is because they are "crimes against humanity" not just breaches of the laws of one nation.
Sky news suggesting that the Tories "Dont want to be to the right of UKIP" Why not, Lynton Crosby could then relax that he'd only be losing support to the EDL and most Tory members are a bit too old for that. Although some of them may have original Fred Perry shirts I guess
If they found out that Fred Perry was the son of a Labour MP, they would shred those T-shirts !
But Perry was not the right class, and the class system mattered in those days. He was a Northerner, he had not been to public school
Oh how different it is today with George Osborne's father in law on the North and David Cameron dealing with Peter Cruddas. Any regional or class snobbery has been expunged completely
Is that because they don't have a clue about which regions they are talking about? ;^ )
I well remember the Tory embrace of the Obama stimulus, on here and more generally. And their consistent support for Obama's foreign policy. During the 80s they rooted for Reagan's opponents, during the 90s Bill Clinton was their man. Or could it be that Messina is his own man?
Over the stop-and-searches, I'm actually quite pleased. Why? Well, because it went like this:
a) Someone identifies potential infringement of law b) Minister suggests that actions were within law, proposes new explanation c) If it isn't compliant, we'll here about it.
That is a proper system, not any wide sweeping powers that nobody could ever show the police (or similar force) were in defiance of. Similarly the Minister feels the need to show that the government is acting within the law, not merely to justify the force's actions ab initio.
Truth is all mainstream UK parties are closer to the Democrats than the GOP because the GOP in its current guise could not exist in the UK as a mainstream party.
Peers who have been jailed or who fail to attend Parliament for long periods will be expelled from the House of Lords under watered-down plans to reform Britain’s second chamber.
In what has been dubbed “House of Lords reform lite”, Coalition ministers have agreed to support legislation that would also allow peers to voluntarily retire if they feel they can no longer contribute effectively.
However there will be no move to get rid of 92 hereditary peers who still sit in the Lords as such a move was considered “too difficult” to get through Parliament.
The changes, to be unveiled in the autumn, will be seen as a tacit admission by the Liberal Democrats that more fundamental Lords reform is unlikely to happen even if they play a part in the next Government.
In principle Labour still favours a mainly elected second chamber, but there are splits on the issue within the party – especially in the Lords itself.
I well remember the Tory embrace of the Obama stimulus, on here and more generally. And their consistent support for Obama's foreign policy. During the 80s they rooted for Reagan's opponents, during the 90s Bill Clinton was their man.
A sore subject I know, but there were enough of the PB tories rooting for the hilarious Romney until he blew it. That you thought he would win out of a belief that Obama was hated so much, and not actual support of the amusing plutocratic bungler Romney, does however leave you with far more credit than the comedy posters. ;^ )
Can anyone tell me why Castro the kidnapper should not hang?
He spent a decade torturing and raping his hostages, and killing their babies.
He shows not an iota of remorse. He admits guilt. He blames his behaviour on 'addiction'. He is clearly sane. Also evil.
What does it benefit the world that he moulders away in jail? Kill him.
If there is someone who refuses to abide by the rules of our society, we have the right to exclude him from our society. This can be done internally (through life in jail) or externally (through exile).
We do not have the right to decide that he is worthless as an individual and therefore has no right to live. However despicable we may believe his actions to be.
No, I do think we have the right to decide that. I'm just not convinced that we would get it right often enough to follow through on the implications of that decision.
You are then arguing for moral absolutism by extension.
Our ways are the only right ways.
That's not what I'm arguing and I think I have a pretty long record, on pbc as well as elsewhere, of being tolerant towards those of other opinion who hold it in good faith.
The reason why genocide (Nuremberg etc) are an exception is because they are "crimes against humanity" not just breaches of the laws of one nation.
Genocide wasn't as such a crime of any nation prior to the concept being invented for the Nuremburg trials. Mass murder, as it otherwise would be, is.
In any case, who is to decide what a "crime against humanity" is? Either you hold a principle that life is inviolate or you don't. If you don't, then you need to decide where you put the line. But don't criticise others for their relativist stance when you also hold that same position.
Unite is poised to increase its hold over the Labour Party after it emerged that the union had successfully put forward candidates to win crucial European seats next year.
The union already says that eight out of Labour’s 13-strong contingent in the European parliament are “Unite MEPs”. In a development that prompted fresh claims that the union has too much power over the party, it was disclosed that Unite had all but guaranteed that more of its candidates would be handed £83,000-a-year jobs in Strasbourg.
The Times revealed in April that senior Labour figures were concerned that Unite was attempting to “stitch up” the election process. They said that some popular candidates had been excluded to clear the way for those supported by the party’s biggest financial backer. It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
re: populus I'd expect a small rise in labours lead during august as many torys are on holiday and on foreign shores. whereas labours army of welfare dependents are confined to the back yard to sunbathe
Doesn't work like that, as (a) welfare dependents tend not to vote at all and, more importantly (b) pollsters adjust for past voting. Thus if a sample of 1000 only finds 200 who voted Tory when it should be 360, because 160 are on holiday, the views of the 200 are given greater weight to represent the absentees. There shouldn't really be any particular August effect, unless you think that Tories on holiday are in some important way different from Tories not on holiday.
This is shocking, I thought As A Father was going to protect us all
Jimmy Wales: David Cameron's porn filter idea is ridiculous and will fail PM's high-profile adviser lambasts plans to block online porn, and says police need more resources to fight internet crime.
"When Cameron uses the example of paedophiles who are addicted to internet porn – all that these plans would do is require them to opt in," he said. "It's an absolutely ridiculous idea that won't work."
"I'd expect a small rise in labours lead during august as many torys are on holiday and on foreign shores. whereas labours army of welfare dependents are confined to the back yard to sunbathe" ...nice to see the Conservatives going back to their roots. Whatever next, "Frack the North"....oh, wait there....
I well remember the Tory embrace of the Obama stimulus, on here and more generally. And their consistent support for Obama's foreign policy. During the 80s they rooted for Reagan's opponents, during the 90s Bill Clinton was their man.
A sore subject I know, but there were enough of the PB tories rooting for the hilarious Romney until he blew it. That you thought he would win out of a belief that Obama was hated so much, and not actual support of the amusing plutocratic bungler Romney, does however leave you with far more credit than the comedy posters. ;^ )
That was one election I was glad to call wrong. What I do find amusing though are claims that the Tories and Democrats are ideological bedfellows. Constant Tory dissing of Obama's domestic and foreign affairs agenda tells a different, and more truthful, story. And surely it was just days ago that the Tory supporters on here were telling us that the story of Democrat Detroit is one of socialist failure.
The truth is that in the US political strategists are hired hands. They'll go to the highest bidder, as long as they are not ideologically out of the ballpark. To see the Messina hire as some kind of Obama endorsement/snub is absurd. And the truth is that he probably won't make much difference anyway. Labour activists, like Tory ones, are making a high mountain out of a very low molehill.
Unite backed candidates topped the newcomers ballot (reselected MEPs were automatically at the top) in London (where the exclusion of a popular candidate at longlisting stage took place), North West (Theresa Griffin who has worked very hard for over 10 years), South West (where the Mail thinks there was an AWS but it's callled zipped list with top vacant place going to a woman in all regions with a female incumbent) and North East (strong candidate). They lost South East male race and Yorkshire.
I don't know who were officially backing in the other regions.
It was a close run thing considering some of the PB tory brain trust actually thought this was a great Ad again proving their legendary political campaigning insight. ;^ )
Thinking about the Conference Ed Miliband arranged to discuss the Labour party's relationship with the Unions, McClusky might just end up demanding that Labour Unite appears on the ballot papers.
Unite is poised to increase its hold over the Labour Party after it emerged that the union had successfully put forward candidates to win crucial European seats next year.
The union already says that eight out of Labour’s 13-strong contingent in the European parliament are “Unite MEPs”. In a development that prompted fresh claims that the union has too much power over the party, it was disclosed that Unite had all but guaranteed that more of its candidates would be handed £83,000-a-year jobs in Strasbourg.
The Times revealed in April that senior Labour figures were concerned that Unite was attempting to “stitch up” the election process. They said that some popular candidates had been excluded to clear the way for those supported by the party’s biggest financial backer. It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
I well remember the Tory embrace of the Obama stimulus, on here and more generally. And their consistent support for Obama's foreign policy. During the 80s they rooted for Reagan's opponents, during the 90s Bill Clinton was their man.
A sore subject I know, but there were enough of the PB tories rooting for the hilarious Romney until he blew it. That you thought he would win out of a belief that he was hated so much, and not actual support of the amusing plutocratic bungler, does however leave with more credit than the comedy posters. ;^ )
Might as well let him have it.Although the Rick Perry fans were the funniest. Southam, you were nearly as bad at elections as the awesome fitalass in 2012.
I relied on anecdote and paid the price. I deserve all the grief I got and get. Sometimes it is good to be wrong.
Truth is all mainstream UK parties are closer to the Democrats than the GOP because the GOP in its current guise could not exist in the UK as a mainstream party.
There is a section of the Tory Party who are quite close to Republicans. However, abortion clinic bombers, hang 'em up brigades won't survive scrutiny in the UK.
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
I well remember the Tory embrace of the Obama stimulus, on here and more generally. And their consistent support for Obama's foreign policy. During the 80s they rooted for Reagan's opponents, during the 90s Bill Clinton was their man.
A sore subject I know, but there were enough of the PB tories rooting for the hilarious Romney until he blew it. That you thought he would win out of a belief that Obama was hated so much, and not actual support of the amusing plutocratic bungler Romney, does however leave you with far more credit than the comedy posters. ;^ )
That was one election I was glad to call wrong. What I do find amusing though are claims that the Tories and Democrats are ideological bedfellows. Constant Tory dissing of Obama's domestic and foreign affairs agenda tells a different, and more truthful, story. And surely it was just days ago that the Tory supporters on here were telling us that the story of Democrat Detroit is one of socialist failure.
The truth is that in the US political strategists are hired hands. They'll go to the highest bidder, as long as they are not ideologically out of the ballpark. To see the Messina hire as some kind of Obama endorsement/snub is absurd. And the truth is that he probably won't make much difference anyway. Labour activists, like Tory ones, are making a high mountain out of a very low molehill.
You are surely not saying that Dick Morris is a wh*re !
Unite backed candidates topped the newcomers ballot (reselected MEPs were automatically at the top) in London (where the exclusion of a popular candidate at longlisting stage took place), North West (Theresa Griffin who has worked very hard for over 10 years), South West (where the Mail thinks there was an AWS but it's callled zipped list with top vacant place going to a woman in all regions with a female incumbent) and North East (strong candidate). They lost South East male race and Yorkshire.
I don't know who were officially backing in the other regions.
The truth is that in the US political strategists are hired hands. They'll go to the highest bidder, as long as they are not ideologically out of the ballpark.
Actually that's been pretty much true of most political strategists for a while now and not just U.S. ones. It's how you get someone as absurd as John "no-brainer" McTernan running off from the SLAB mess and proceeding to put his own special brand of inept hilarity onto the likes of Gillard.
The crucial thing to remember with all of them is that they are primarily loyal to themselves and getting their next paycheck. That is their overarching strategy and if they leave a pile of rubble behind, well, they are spinners so they will always spin it otherwise.
Not that it did the likes of Karl Rove much good after his disasterous 2012 but they can always find a job as a media pundit with a friendly outlet. Many political media pundits also not so secretly hold ambitions to be the next big political strategist, regardless of how unsuited they may well be.
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
Nick - do you really think the Labour-haters on here are interested in the reality??!!
Unite backed candidates topped the newcomers ballot (reselected MEPs were automatically at the top) in London (where the exclusion of a popular candidate at longlisting stage took place), North West (Theresa Griffin who has worked very hard for over 10 years), South West (where the Mail thinks there was an AWS but it's callled zipped list with top vacant place going to a woman in all regions with a female incumbent) and North East (strong candidate). They lost South East male race and Yorkshire.
I don't know who were officially backing in the other regions.
What makes me laugh about all this Unite paranoia is the fact that all of the people that were selected were not just backed by just Unite, there were other unions, the Co-op and a vast array of local parties. But hey, that doesn't make a story, lets just concentrate on Unite.
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
Newsnight are having a bit of breakdown over Mr Messina.
"It does not compute"
Newsnight perhaps then have not worked out that the Tories are closer ideologically to the Democrats than the Republicans, and closer than Labour are to the Democrats. Not too surprised.
This has perplexed me for a very long time. Labour love to say that the Tories are like the GOP - but they're clearly much closer to and sometimes to the left of the Dems on issues like gay marriage and state healthcare.
Maybe Messina has some idea on how a party in the centre (RINO) can avoid being pulled to the right by nutty fundamentalists (Tea Party)? Or how an opposing party might try to exploit that dynamic?
Appointing someone to work alongside Lynton Crosby to prevent the Tory Party being pulled to the right?
Or to predict how Labour might try to exploit that & to plan how to defend against it.
I am sure Messina had a lot of fun attacking the GOP for moving rightwards, so he probably knows a lot of tricks
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
Nick - do you really think the Labour-haters on here are interested in the reality??
While Tory haters are models of objective rationality.....
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
Nick - do you really think the Labour-haters on here are interested in the reality??
While Tory haters are models of objective rationality.....
I rightly predicted Rory Palmer in East Midlands. I had Anderson or Bartoletti in London. Anderson took it. Got Moody in SW and Alex Mayer in East right. I didn't have a clue on SE. Got Griffin and Afzal Khan right in NW. And Corbett in Yorkshire. Bryant in Wales too I was sure about Kirton-Darling in NE but I got the male ballot wrong (I thought Wallis instead of Brannen). Sion Simon as predicted in WM male race, but I got the female race wrong (I thought former MP Waltho over former MEP Gill).
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
I'm about 20 miles away and its getting coverage but no huge fuss - Balcombe residents in my experience are stalwart types who really do not like newbies on their lawns. I imagine the Occupy sorts have annoyed them more than the fracking.
A very good friend had two Labs called Monty and Rommel - that sums the place up.
'Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.'
Did you think it was pretty racist when New Labour were doing exactly the same thing on the Tube as Neal pointed out last night and again this morning?
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
Are there any national sub-sets? I recall someone saying that Sikhs and East-African Asians are more inclined to vote Tory. For the Ugandans I could see residual gratitude to Heath for doing the right thing in the 70s - don't know why for the Sikhs specifically.
If Labour is perceived as being more willing to allow more extended families, for instance, to move to the UK then it could be rational (regardless of economic or other issues) for Pakistani-origin voters to support them disproportionately.
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
Are there any national sub-sets? I recall someone saying that Sikhs and East-African Asians are more inclined to vote Tory. For the Ugandans I could see residual gratitude to Heath for doing the right thing in the 70s - don't know why for the Sikhs specifically.
If Labour is perceived as being more willing to allow more extended families, for instance, to move to the UK then it could be rational (regardless of economic or other issues) for Pakistani-origin voters to support them disproportionately.
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
And IIRC Cliff Richard is Indian - and Dan Hannan Peruvian - they are clearly exceptions which is why I know them. The nitpicking here really does nothing for Labour's immigration PR problem.
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
And IIRC Cliff Richard is Indian - and Dan Hannan Peruvian - they are clearly exceptions which is why I know them. The nitpicking here really does nothing for Labour's immigration PR problem.
Maybe if they read the selection rules before writing, they would produce better materials
"She is backed by six separate unions and has been selected ahead of Glyn Ford, a popular Labour figure who was MEP for a decade until 1999"
South West don't have any Labour incumbent. So the top vacant spot (in this case first position) must go to a woman. So 2 ballots were run: one for female candidates and one for male candidates.
So Moody isn't ranked over Ford because she's Unite but because she is a woman.
Maybe if they read the selection rules before writing, they would produce better materials
"She is backed by six separate unions and has been selected ahead of Glyn Ford, a popular Labour figure who was MEP for a decade until 1999"
South West don't have any incumbent. So the top vacant spot (in this case first position) must go to a woman. So 2 ballots were run: one for female candidates and one for male candidates.
So Moody isn't ranked over Ford because she's Unite but because she is a woman.
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
Nick - do you really think the Labour-haters on here are interested in the reality??
While Tory haters are models of objective rationality.....
Nick has explained very patiently a few times on here the relationship Labour MPs and candidates have with unions that nominate them. It is clear that some people are not interested in understanding the reality. It's hard to think of an equivalent involving a Tory providing such detailed inside information to PB readers, but maybe you can help us all out and say when it happened, as well as which posters systematically ignored/rubbished what he/she had to say.
It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
Pshaw. Unite can help get people nominations and give them money to send out leaflets, and er that's it in most cases. A non-UNITE non-left-winger got nominated by Unite for Broxtowe over 4 UNITE applicants, for that matter. I'm not complaining - they've a right to nominate whoever they like.
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
Nick - do you really think the Labour-haters on here are interested in the reality??
While Tory haters are models of objective rationality.....
Nick has explained very patiently a few times on here the relationship Labour MPs and candidates have with unions that nominate them. It is clear that some people are not interested in understanding the reality. It's hard to think of an equivalent involving a Tory providing such detailed inside information to PB readers, but maybe you can help us all out and say when it happened, as well as which posters systematically ignored/rubbished what he/she had to say.
If Lord Ashcroft cannot get the figures for the number of people who actually voted in the Conservative MEP elections....what chance has a mere PB Tory top get any inside information.
BBC DUP councillor Ruth Patterson is charged with sending a 'grossly offensive communication' after she made comments on Facebook about a planned republican parade in County Tyrone.
Facebook and Twitter are more like gossip in a pub than serious communications IMO. It still seems weird to me that people can get into trouble as a result of messages posted on those types of website.
Facebook and Twitter are more like gossip in a pub than serious communications IMO. It still seems weird to me that people can get into trouble as a result of messages posted on those types of website.
Yes it's the digital equivalent of scrawling on the public bog door...
More bad news for the Tories.Party membership figures have gone down by 50% and could keep drifting below 100,000.The average age is also very much in the pensioner category too.Elections are won on the ground. In tight Tory marginals a poor Tory ground-game could help tip the balance.Parties still need supporters on the knocker and on the trumpets to do all the spadework and the leg work. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/how-tory-membership-has-collapsed-under-cameron The employment of foreigners in Lynton Crosby and the new Obama "gun for hire" is unlikely to chime with citizens of the UK.It is simply not British and Australians and Americans really ought to concentrate on solving their own country's problems rather than imposing them on us.
Facebook and Twitter are more like gossip in a pub than serious communications IMO. It still seems weird to me that people can get into trouble as a result of messages posted on those types of website.
Yes it's the digital equivalent of scrawling on the public bog door...
It's a high barrier of offence, more than just 'banter'*.
*Approximately the most oft used badly word in the English language today
Facebook and Twitter are more like gossip in a pub than serious communications IMO. It still seems weird to me that people can get into trouble as a result of messages posted on those types of website.
I quite agree - as I sign off - if you still use your account try following @allanholloway He is Mr Pub Quiz on political trivia.
'The employment of foreigners in Lynton Crosby and the new Obama "gun for hire" is unlikely to chime with citizens of the UK.It is simply not British and Australians and Americans really ought to concentrate on solving their own country's problems rather than imposing them on us.'
Southam Observer - UKIP is the UK's GOP, anti-gay marriage, suspicious of climate change, wants even further spending and tax cuts, EU withdrawal, stricter border controls etc
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
And IIRC Cliff Richard is Indian - and Dan Hannan Peruvian - they are clearly exceptions which is why I know them. The nitpicking here really does nothing for Labour's immigration PR problem.
Labour does not have an Immigration PR problem. Tories have. In fact, they are obsessed about it !
The average age of Tory members has been about 65 for as long as I can remember, but in an odd way that's good news for the party because it shows they're renewing their members on a regular basis.
'Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.'
Did you think it was pretty racist when New Labour were doing exactly the same thing on the Tube as Neal pointed out last night and again this morning?
Gradually getting the hang of the online dating game.
Rod's rules.
1. Don't ever message them first (unless you already know they've come back to look at your profile half a dozen times). Let them do the work.
2. Have a totally bonkers profile, full of ambiguity, sarcasm and big, rarely used, words. Tell them it'll cost them £20.39 to go on a date with you, and they won't get a receipt.
3. Have a bonkers photo.
4. When they respond, act disinterested. Find something negative about them, but ask them playful, suggestive questions like "Tell me something interesting about yourself: for example, have you ever swam in the nude?"
...results in about 50 looks per day and about 2 or 3 "come-ons" per day...
I've just thought of a whole new level of political obsessiveness:
Someone who actually moves house in order to be able to vote for or against a particular candidate.
It must have happened.
Reminds me of the situation in Baarle-Nassau. The country in which a house is located is defined by the position of the front door. People have sometimes moved from one country to another by moving their front door.
Southam Observer - UKIP is the UK's GOP, anti-gay marriage, suspicious of climate change, wants even further spending and tax cuts, EU withdrawal, stricter border controls etc
All sounds remarkably sensible to me. Actually, I might even pinch that sentence in case I ever need to write a 20 word political self-description.
You are then arguing for moral absolutism by extension.
Our ways are the only right ways.
That's not what I'm arguing and I think I have a pretty long record, on pbc as well as elsewhere, of being tolerant towards those of other opinion who hold it in good faith.
The reason why genocide (Nuremberg etc) are an exception is because they are "crimes against humanity" not just breaches of the laws of one nation.
Genocide wasn't as such a crime of any nation prior to the concept being invented for the Nuremburg trials. Mass murder, as it otherwise would be, is.
In any case, who is to decide what a "crime against humanity" is? Either you hold a principle that life is inviolate or you don't. If you don't, then you need to decide where you put the line. But don't criticise others for their relativist stance when you also hold that same position.
It's a very short list. I'd put genocide on it. Happy to hear arguments for others, but not sure there are many. Genocide to be strictly defined - so none of these attempts to accuse Blair of it, for instance. To my mind, Rwanda potentially (don't know much about it though so could be persuaded otherwise), Bosnia, Nazi Germany, etc. are all applicable cases. Sure there are others, but they should be few and far between. For example, Pinochet in Chile or Saddam in Iraq seems to me to be something that should be dealt with by the nation state as it was an attempt to murder political opponents *within* a country rather than to eliminate a racial group (possibly a case could be made against Saddam with the Kurds, but again lack sufficient knowledge to make a firm call)
It's a bit ridiculous the Tories are still thought of as the racist party since the last time anyone in the party actually said anything racist was in about 1968.
Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
Are there any national sub-sets? I recall someone saying that Sikhs and East-African Asians are more inclined to vote Tory. For the Ugandans I could see residual gratitude to Heath for doing the right thing in the 70s - don't know why for the Sikhs specifically.
If Labour is perceived as being more willing to allow more extended families, for instance, to move to the UK then it could be rational (regardless of economic or other issues) for Pakistani-origin voters to support them disproportionately.
Question: who on earth thought it was money well spent to order an opinion poll on whether or not people have a negative opinion of men who wear red trousers?
Comments
Victoria Freeman @make_trouble 11m
"We're gonna tell Barack Obama on you" makes Labour look so weak. Beseeching a leader far away for help gives impression you lack a leader.
Our ways are the only right ways.
The reason why genocide (Nuremberg etc) are an exception is because they are "crimes against humanity" not just breaches of the laws of one nation.
"We're gonna tell Barack Obama on you"
Brilliant
a) Someone identifies potential infringement of law
b) Minister suggests that actions were within law, proposes new explanation
c) If it isn't compliant, we'll here about it.
That is a proper system, not any wide sweeping powers that nobody could ever show the police (or similar force) were in defiance of. Similarly the Minister feels the need to show that the government is acting within the law, not merely to justify the force's actions ab initio.
No wonder Labour are spitting their dummies out.
Peers who have been jailed or who fail to attend Parliament for long periods will be expelled from the House of Lords under watered-down plans to reform Britain’s second chamber.
In what has been dubbed “House of Lords reform lite”, Coalition ministers have agreed to support legislation that would also allow peers to voluntarily retire if they feel they can no longer contribute effectively.
However there will be no move to get rid of 92 hereditary peers who still sit in the Lords as such a move was considered “too difficult” to get through Parliament.
The changes, to be unveiled in the autumn, will be seen as a tacit admission by the Liberal Democrats that more fundamental Lords reform is unlikely to happen even if they play a part in the next Government.
In principle Labour still favours a mainly elected second chamber, but there are splits on the issue within the party – especially in the Lords itself.
In any case, who is to decide what a "crime against humanity" is? Either you hold a principle that life is inviolate or you don't. If you don't, then you need to decide where you put the line. But don't criticise others for their relativist stance when you also hold that same position.
Unite is poised to increase its hold over the Labour Party after it emerged that the union had successfully put forward candidates to win crucial European seats next year.
The union already says that eight out of Labour’s 13-strong contingent in the European parliament are “Unite MEPs”. In a development that prompted fresh claims that the union has too much power over the party, it was disclosed that Unite had all but guaranteed that more of its candidates would be handed £83,000-a-year jobs in Strasbourg.
The Times revealed in April that senior Labour figures were concerned that Unite was attempting to “stitch up” the election process. They said that some popular candidates had been excluded to clear the way for those supported by the party’s biggest financial backer. It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust.
'"We're gonna tell Barack Obama on you"
Hilarious seeing the reaction of lefties.
Maybe Ed will go for Hollande's election guru, sounds like Arnie Graf needs some help.
The truth is that in the US political strategists are hired hands. They'll go to the highest bidder, as long as they are not ideologically out of the ballpark. To see the Messina hire as some kind of Obama endorsement/snub is absurd. And the truth is that he probably won't make much difference anyway. Labour activists, like Tory ones, are making a high mountain out of a very low molehill.
Unite backed candidates topped the newcomers ballot (reselected MEPs were automatically at the top) in London (where the exclusion of a popular candidate at longlisting stage took place), North West (Theresa Griffin who has worked very hard for over 10 years), South West (where the Mail thinks there was an AWS but it's callled zipped list with top vacant place going to a woman in all regions with a female incumbent) and North East (strong candidate).
They lost South East male race and Yorkshire.
I don't know who were officially backing in the other regions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkijDR_roTs
Though to be fair it's certainly an Ad Crosby would be delighted with.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10579773.Tory_leaders_in_Crawley_in_UKIP_defection/
It's members who decide, and even if they managed to sign up hundreds, getting them all to vote the same way would be an interesting challenge. I've never even been able to get all my family to vote the same way...
The crucial thing to remember with all of them is that they are primarily loyal to themselves and getting their next paycheck. That is their overarching strategy and if they leave a pile of rubble behind, well, they are spinners so they will always spin it otherwise.
Not that it did the likes of Karl Rove much good after his disasterous 2012 but they can always find a job as a media pundit with a friendly outlet. Many political media pundits also not so secretly hold ambitions to be the next big political strategist, regardless of how unsuited they may well be.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23547861
Thanks.
Another part of the scenario is that many hopefuls were Unite members but not all were the Unite backed candidate....just to increase confusion!
Why do two-thirds of Asians vote Labour ? Including many thousands of small businessmen/women who would normally be horrified of Labour's tax policies.
I am sure Messina had a lot of fun attacking the GOP for moving rightwards, so he probably knows a lot of tricks
I had Anderson or Bartoletti in London. Anderson took it.
Got Moody in SW and Alex Mayer in East right.
I didn't have a clue on SE.
Got Griffin and Afzal Khan right in NW. And Corbett in Yorkshire. Bryant in Wales too
I was sure about Kirton-Darling in NE but I got the male ballot wrong (I thought Wallis instead of Brannen).
Sion Simon as predicted in WM male race, but I got the female race wrong (I thought former MP Waltho over former MEP Gill).
A very good friend had two Labs called Monty and Rommel - that sums the place up.
'Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.'
Did you think it was pretty racist when New Labour were doing exactly the same thing on the Tube as Neal pointed out last night and again this morning?
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/life-black-ukrainian-how-some-natives-are-treated-foreigners
If Labour is perceived as being more willing to allow more extended families, for instance, to move to the UK then it could be rational (regardless of economic or other issues) for Pakistani-origin voters to support them disproportionately.
These chaps may be able to help you:
http://www.broxtowelabour.com/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-doreen-lawrence-pledges-to-condemn-racial-profiling-spot-checks-in-the-house-of-lords-8742754.html
There are black Ukranians:
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/life-black-ukrainian-how-some-natives-are-treated-foreigners
"The Home Office said a Ukrainian woman aged 33, an Indian man aged 44 and a 59-year-old Brazilian woman had been detained as part of the checks at Kensal Green."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-doreen-lawrence-pledges-to-condemn-racial-profiling-spot-checks-in-the-house-of-lords-8742754.html
Maybe they looked like illegal immigrants(whatever they look like) eh?
some interesting graphs:
http://t.co/VIluaaHWQN
http://t.co/rURkWBal4B
http://t.co/T3RsRfo64i
http://t.co/pCLnYtaY4U
MODERATED
"She is backed by six separate unions and has been selected ahead of Glyn Ford, a popular Labour figure who was MEP for a decade until 1999"
South West don't have any Labour incumbent. So the top vacant spot (in this case first position) must go to a woman. So 2 ballots were run: one for female candidates and one for male candidates.
So Moody isn't ranked over Ford because she's Unite but because she is a woman.
Weekly Prison Watch, latest population figures:
http://www.howardleague.org/weekly-prison-watch/
BBC
DUP councillor Ruth Patterson is charged with sending a 'grossly offensive communication' after she made comments on Facebook about a planned republican parade in County Tyrone.
65.4% Catholic
32.2% Protestant and other Christian denominations
0.5% other faiths
1.9% none/not stated
calculated from following council areas:
Omagh
Strabane
Dungannon
All but the two northeastern wards of Cookstown
In tight Tory marginals a poor Tory ground-game could help tip the balance.Parties still need supporters on the knocker and on the trumpets to do all the spadework and the leg work.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/how-tory-membership-has-collapsed-under-cameron
The employment of foreigners in Lynton Crosby and the new Obama "gun for hire" is unlikely to chime with citizens of the UK.It is simply not British and Australians and Americans really ought to concentrate on solving their own country's problems rather than imposing them on us.
*Approximately the most oft used badly word in the English language today
'The employment of foreigners in Lynton Crosby and the new Obama "gun for hire" is unlikely to chime with citizens of the UK.It is simply not British and Australians and Americans really ought to concentrate on solving their own country's problems rather than imposing them on us.'
Does that also apply to Arnie Graf?
'Supporting two burly officers standing at the exit door of tube and railway stations and asking only Black and Asian people about their identities sounds pretty racist to me.'
Did you think it was pretty racist when New Labour were doing exactly the same thing on the Tube as Neal pointed out last night and again this morning?
Someone who actually moves house in order to be able to vote for or against a particular candidate.
It must have happened.
Rod's rules.
1. Don't ever message them first (unless you already know they've come back to look at your profile half a dozen times). Let them do the work.
2. Have a totally bonkers profile, full of ambiguity, sarcasm and big, rarely used, words. Tell them it'll cost them £20.39 to go on a date with you, and they won't get a receipt.
3. Have a bonkers photo.
4. When they respond, act disinterested. Find something negative about them, but ask them playful, suggestive questions like "Tell me something interesting about yourself: for example, have you ever swam in the nude?"
...results in about 50 looks per day and about 2 or 3 "come-ons" per day...
Interesting that r2 is so much higher in West Mids though
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10216389/Red-trousers-are-nothing-for-posh-chaps-to-blush-about.html
22 degrees, sunshine and showers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2656014
Quite the cock-up though. Can you imagine what you would have made of it if it had been Lansley's fault?