Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
I was phoning for Andy Street last night, his business experience made the difference for waverers over Simon, I think he will just take it
I do hope so. He does appear the stronger candidate and I expect him to win. The timing of the general election and a backlash against Birmingham Council should work in his favour.
If Street wins mostly because of his business experience then presumably the Conservatives will not do as well in the GE when those are not present ?
Hmm I think the Tories will do relatively better in the West Mids in the GE. Working backwards it is one of the reasons I tipped Simon. The base ground is astronomically difficult for Street.
This is one market where the odds didn't make sense at all. There's no way Street should be such a short favourite when most of the West Mids area is solid red. Street is 1.3 on Betfair right now, in a very thin market.
But is the West Mids actually solid red? It certainly was solid red in 2015 but if we are lead to believe the national polls and indeed the subsamples it's probably true that 50% of the constituencies in Birmingham, Dudley, Wolverhampton, Sandwell, Coventry Solihull and Walsall will be blue in a few weeks time.
It was reasonably solid red in the 2016 locals.
Birmingham City Council election, Labour 113,018 Tories 50,828
Coventry was pretty red too as was Wolverhampton. I think Dudley was more or less a wash, but no areas except the population tiny Meriden were true blue in any sense of the word.
For some reason Labour has a tendency to underperform at Birmingham local elections relative to parliamentary elections held at the same time.
This is the most partisan thread I've seen in all my time here. Quite impressive
I'm not sure about that. There's a fairly strong cross party majority consensus that OGH does a pretty good job.
There is no author on the thread listed. I am criticising the contents of the piece not its origin, which I do not know for certain.
Oh, it's the thread header that's got you so riled.
And there was I thinking that no one read them.
That was my initial reaction to Pauly's posts. I was thinking his comment was about the comments! There have been plenty of threads where the comments have been way more partisan! Bring back tim, ben, IoS etc ...
Look at that video of Ed. He looks erm -- like a bloke eating a bacon sarnie. We would all look weird if we were subject to a tabloid art director choosing the least flattering image in a reel of 100 shots. The whole thing is puerile.
OK. But if we just confine it to tories, Dave looks as if he drinks a pint about once per decade, and Zac as if he never previously knew that the common people got their beer in such large mugs. Tessa looks at home with chips.
Mr. Bobajob, some time ago, but I forced myself to smile for a library ID card at university. The girl taking the picture (behind a computer) asked me to come over, and literally said I looked like a serial killer.
Which is of course, nonsense.
Contracts only.
How charming of her...
Indeed. I do hope Mr Dancer realized that was a chat up line?
The best I've ever had was "Tim, dance with me. I've never danced with a spy before." I guess I looked like a spy.
It is just as impossible to join the elite as it always was. You can get some money, get patronised by them, go to some of their parties, you might even be able to marry them, but you can't join them.
There are more class divisions than just the "elite", but I agree with your overall point about joining the "elite". Personally I do not give a monkeys what the "elite" do, they are irrelevant to my life and I would not want to live their lives
I agree that there are far more class divisions in Britain than just between the elite and everyone else. But I was very surprised when someone wrote here that going to grammar school was a way into the elite. I wondered whether he had ever met anyone from the elite and experienced just what an extreme hatred they have for the lower orders, whom they hardly consider to be human. Similar attitudes towards those who are "beneath" them are evident in some social strata who are far lower down the pecking order, among people who - surprise surprise! - are usually the most slurpily deferential to those they consider to be socially above them. Many features of the way class works are extreme in Britain in comparison to other countries. All the stuff about "inclusion" is hypocritical cack.
The same hypocrisy is also evident when terms such as "members of the public" and "public transport" are used.
Even Hitler - even Hitler for goodness sake! - never clearly and unambiguously advocated in writing the scale of mass murder that H G Wells called for in his bestselling book "Anticipations". The idiotic belief that some people are born clever and others are born stupid - often sugarcoated with the mealymouthed idea that people are born with different "potential" - is very widely believed in Britain among, say, not just the top 0.01% but the top 30%.
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
There are few Tory Vicars or Ministers of religion nowadays.The ultra materialistic selfishness of Thatcherism alienated many who previously had had some sympathy towards it. The callous indifference to the suffering imposed on the poor and vulnerable - whilst at he same time giving massive tax cuts to those who were already fortunate - was very difficult to reconcile with the the message of the New Testament.
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
There are few Tory Vicars or Ministers of religion nowadays.The ultra materialistic selfishness of Thatcherism alienated many who were had some sympathy towards it. The callous indifference to the suffering imposed on the poor and vulnerable - whilst at he same time giving massive tax cuts to those who were already fortunate - was very difficult to reconcile with the the message of the New Testament.
You do realise that part of the NT message is that "Thank God I am not as other men are" is an unacceptable sentiment?
1. Some healthy cynicism there 2. That's one in the eye for the "this/that/the other horrible thing was caused by thickos believing everything they read in the Daily Mail" theory
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
OK “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth” ? BTW I'm an agnostic, but I just took up the challenge as an intellectual exercise. I'm sur ethat you can find a quote in the Bible to support almost any assertion.
Positives for Chi Onwurah - she won't make the BBC news today Negatives for Chi Onwurah - Even TSE is chastising her on twitter
Yes - a rather sour taste left in the mouth - of course Labour is doing so well in the polls she can afford to piss off all the older voter.....oh...wait...sh**
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
OK “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth” ? BTW I'm an agnostic, but I just took up the challenge as an intellectual exercise. I'm sur ethat you can find a quote in the Bible to support almost any assertion.
Indeed. The Devil can cite scripture for his purpose.
I agree that there are far more class divisions in Britain than just between the elite and everyone else. But I was very surprised when someone wrote here that going to grammar school was a way into the elite. I wondered whether he had ever met anyone from the elite and experienced just what an extreme hatred they have for the lower orders, whom they hardly consider to be human. Similar attitudes towards those who are "beneath" them are evident in some social strata who are far lower down the pecking order, among people who - surprise surprise! - are usually the most slurpily deferential to those they consider to be socially above them. Many features of the way class works are extreme in Britain in comparison to other countries. All the stuff about "inclusion" is hypocritical cack.
The same hypocrisy is also evident when terms such as "members of the public" and "public transport" are used.
Even Hitler - even Hitler for goodness sake! - never clearly and unambiguously advocated in writing the scale of mass murder that H G Wells called for in his bestselling book "Anticipations". The idiotic belief that some people are born clever and others are born stupid - often sugarcoated with the mealymouthed idea that people are born with different "potential" - is very widely believed in Britain among, say, not just the top 0.01% but the top 30%.
Part of the problem of any conversation on the elite is agreeing on what the elite is. To me, from a lower middle class background, I've had a first rate education in STEM at a Red Brick, an MBA from the top business school in Europe, I've been a policy-maker at both national and international levels, my income is certainly in the top 5% and I live on a farm. By most people's standards, I am probably in the elite.
To me, I am clearly not, although I am invited to meet them if and when they need my knowledge.
My first reaction to your post is that I have not found the elite to be particularly exclusive. Then my second reaction is that, in some ways, they are like the British - everyone is tolerated, but you'll never be one of them. My third reaction is that, the elite is very much a combination of meritocracy and power/means. It is not a closed or unchanging group - indeed, Obama is clearly now in the elite but did not start out that way, in the same way that Mark Zuckerberg, Gates and the Google guys are now in the elite.
So, on your basic point, I believe very much that we grow our potential (or let it wither on the vine) by means of the work we put into challenging ourselves and stretching our abilities.
The best book I know on this is Mindset, by Carol Dweck. Mihali Csickszentmihalyi's Flow talk about happiness deriving from challenging ourselves to the maximum (and a bit more) or our current abilities.
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
But such socialists are prepared to advocate policies which are at variance with their own material interests - eg higher direct taxes on income and wealth.
OT Premium bond holders can now type their holders' numbers into the NS website to be told how much they've won -- no need to log in. So much for security. It's the stupidest idea since someone asked Ed Miliband if he fancied a bacon roll.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
1. Some healthy cynicism there 2. That's one in the eye for the "this/that/the other horrible thing was caused by thickos believing everything they read in the Daily Mail" theory
I like how China is in there ... twice. Which one is the Republic of China, and which one is the People's Republic of China though.
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
Oh Carlotta! Do you think someone's skill at rational thought must be inferior when, using litotes in a most mild fashion, they write that Christianity and the Tory party "hardly go hand in hand"?
Mind you, when I look at Gothic altar screens with Jesus at the top and statues of apostles and bishops all arranged in levels below, and I think of phrases such as "Our Lord Jesus", and I see all the church memorials commemorating imperialist soldiers who died to keep China British, etc., it's not Keir Hardie who comes to mind.
For "natural order" - but property developers and other spivs welcome so long as they know their place - which party should one recommend?
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
But such socialists are prepared to advocate policies which are at variance with their own material interests - eg higher direct taxes on income and wealth.
You mean like when rich Labour MPs send their children to private schools?
1. Some healthy cynicism there 2. That's one in the eye for the "this/that/the other horrible thing was caused by thickos believing everything they read in the Daily Mail" theory
I like how China is in there ... twice. Which one is the Republic of China, and which one is the People's Republic of China though.
1. Some healthy cynicism there 2. That's one in the eye for the "this/that/the other horrible thing was caused by thickos believing everything they read in the Daily Mail" theory
I like how China is in there ... twice. Which one is the Republic of China, and which one is the People's Republic of China though.
RoC is Taiwan, isn't it?
It's the RoC on the island of Taiwan
Definitely 'Republic of China' on the passports though...
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
But such socialists are prepared to advocate policies which are at variance with their own material interests - eg higher direct taxes on income and wealth.
You mean like when rich Labour MPs send their children to private schools?
Or the north London 'state' schools for which the entry criteria is a £750k house?
OT Premium bond holders can now type their holders' numbers into the NS website to be told how much they've won -- no need to log in. So much for security. It's the stupidest idea since someone asked Ed Miliband if he fancied a bacon roll.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
Hint: browsers will auto-fill it anyway.
I receive mine online through their app which is very good
I agree that there are far more class divisions in Britain than just between the elite and everyone else. But I was very surprised when someone wrote here that going to grammar school was a way into the elite. I wondered whether he had ever met anyone from the elite and experienced just what an extreme hatred they have for the lower orders, whom they hardly consider to be human. Similar attitudes towards those who are "beneath" them are evident in some social strata who are far lower down the pecking order, among people who - surprise surprise! - are usually the most slurpily deferential to those they consider to be socially above them. Many features of the way class works are extreme in Britain in comparison to other countries. All the stuff about "inclusion" is hypocritical cack.
The same hypocrisy is also evident when terms such as "members of the public" and "public transport" are used.
Even Hitler - even Hitler for goodness sake! - never clearly and unambiguously advocated in writing the scale of mass murder that H G Wells called for in his bestselling book "Anticipations". The idiotic belief that some people are born clever and others are born stupid - often sugarcoated with the mealymouthed idea that people are born with different "potential" - is very widely believed in Britain among, say, not just the top 0.01% but the top 30%.
Part of the problem of any conversation on the elite is agreeing on what the elite is. To me, from a lower middle class background, I've had a first rate education in STEM at a Red Brick, an MBA from the top business school in Europe, I've been a policy-maker at both national and international levels, my income is certainly in the top 5% and I live on a farm. By most people's standards, I am probably in the elite.
To me, I am clearly not, although I am invited to meet them if and when they need my knowledge.
My first reaction to your post is that I have not found the elite to be particularly exclusive. Then my second reaction is that, in some ways, they are like the British - everyone is tolerated, but you'll never be one of them. My third reaction is that, the elite is very much a combination of meritocracy and power/means. It is not a closed or unchanging group - indeed, Obama is clearly now in the elite but did not start out that way, in the same way that Mark Zuckerberg, Gates and the Google guys are now in the elite.
So, on your basic point, I believe very much that we grow our potential (or let it wither on the vine) by means of the work we put into challenging ourselves and stretching our abilities.
The best book I know on this is Mindset, by Carol Dweck. Mihali Csickszentmihalyi's Flow talk about happiness deriving from challenging ourselves to the maximum (and a bit more) or our current abilities.
What has living on a farm got to do with the price of biscuits?
Speaking to friends voting in the West Midlands today, one has voted Tory for the first time. Another whose mum is a Labour member and has put in the miles on the campaign trail before might vote Andy Street too. With his business experience and Christianity he seems a decent sort, a gateway Tory if you will. I think his odds are great value and expect him to win. I also expect he'll have the ear of Theresa too for a bit of central government help, which will only enhance the West Midland's standing and is something neither Burnham or Rotherham cannot offer.
I'll also take a bit of pleasure in Sion Simon losing, after all his Web Cameron spoof all those years ago was a real nadir for political comedy. Given he's spent the last few years campaigning for this Mayoral role it would be amusing if it were snatched away from him at the last.
Christianity and the Tory party hardly go hand in hand.
And your basis for that sweeping assertion is?
How about: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
But not all Tories are rich. And some socialists are. So that won't do.
Given Labour's propensity to raise taxes, it's a good thing Jesus was so forgiving of tax collectors..
There doesn't appear to be, at first glance, much correlation between trust levels and press freedom levels?
Seems to me the greatest correlation there is on the axis authoritarian/communitarian societies vs egalitarian/individualistic societies, rather than integrity or freedom of the press with some obvious exceptions, such as Iraq and Iraq, where distrust of the press is earned honestly.
I agree that there are far more class divisions in Britain than just between the elite and everyone else. But I was very surprised when someone wrote here that going to grammar school was a way into the elite. I wondered whether he had ever met anyone from the elite and experienced just what an extreme hatred they have for the lower orders, whom they hardly consider to be human. Similar attitudes towards those who are "beneath" them are evident in some social strata who are far lower down the pecking order, among people who - surprise surprise! - are usually the most slurpily deferential to those they consider to be socially above them. Many features of the way class works are extreme in Britain in comparison to other countries. All the stuff about "inclusion" is hypocritical cack.
Part of the problem of any conversation on the elite is agreeing on what the elite is. To me, from a lower middle class background, I've had a first rate education in STEM at a Red Brick, an MBA from the top business school in Europe, I've been a policy-maker at both national and international levels, my income is certainly in the top 5% and I live on a farm. By most people's standards, I am probably in the elite.
To me, I am clearly not, although I am invited to meet them if and when they need my knowledge.
My first reaction to your post is that I have not found the elite to be particularly exclusive. Then my second reaction is that, in some ways, they are like the British - everyone is tolerated, but you'll never be one of them. My third reaction is that, the elite is very much a combination of meritocracy and power/means. It is not a closed or unchanging group - indeed, Obama is clearly now in the elite but did not start out that way, in the same way that Mark Zuckerberg, Gates and the Google guys are now in the elite.
So, on your basic point, I believe very much that we grow our potential (or let it wither on the vine) by means of the work we put into challenging ourselves and stretching our abilities.
The best book I know on this is Mindset, by Carol Dweck. Mihali Csickszentmihalyi's Flow talk about happiness deriving from challenging ourselves to the maximum (and a bit more) or our current abilities.
If there's one thing that the Who Do You Think You Are series have shown, it's that the British class system is a remarkably dynamic thing and that families can rise and fall with surprising speed. Granted that the producers no doubt choose the most interesting stories but even so, the notion that we have some kind of immutable caste system is ludicrously far from the truth.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Indeed. And up until now, unless they've openly disavowed him like woodcock, they have implicitly been saying they want him to prime minister. Junking him now is too late, it's not credible and the Tories would hit them just as hard. They have to wait it once more.
Short of losing Liverpool, expectations have once again been managed so anybother result will feel normal for labour, and 'only' losing net 50 in England seem decent.
OT Premium bond holders can now type their holders' numbers into the NS website to be told how much they've won -- no need to log in. So much for security. It's the stupidest idea since someone asked Ed Miliband if he fancied a bacon roll.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
Hint: browsers will auto-fill it anyway.
I receive mine online through their app which is very good
you've been able to do this for many years? I check circa a dozen of my relatives holdings each month.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Not a fan of Tom Watson, but right now Peter Sutcliffe would be a improvement on Jeremy Corbyn!
Anywhere I can bet on the Scottish Council elections? I've just realised that Ruth Davidson lead the SCons to just 13% of the vote last time out, I thought they had got 16%. They must have huge upside potential in terms of seats won.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Not a fan of Tom Watson, but right now Peter Sutclifre would be a improvement on Jeremy Corbyn.
Imagine an election campaign in which Labour has Watson as interim leader but Diane Abbott has already thrown her hat in the ring as a leadership contender.
I think they could give Peter Sutcliffe a run for his money.
OT Premium bond holders can now type their holders' numbers into the NS website to be told how much they've won -- no need to log in. So much for security. It's the stupidest idea since someone asked Ed Miliband if he fancied a bacon roll.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
Hint: browsers will auto-fill it anyway.
I receive mine online through their app which is very good
you've been able to do this for many years? I check circa a dozen of my relatives holdings each month.
On the android app it looks as if you can add additional holders. Alternatively the app certainly works flawlessly for a single holder so if they have android phones you could set them up and leave them to it.
OT Premium bond holders can now type their holders' numbers into the NS website to be told how much they've won -- no need to log in. So much for security. It's the stupidest idea since someone asked Ed Miliband if he fancied a bacon roll.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
Hint: browsers will auto-fill it anyway.
I receive mine online through their app which is very good
you've been able to do this for many years? I check circa a dozen of my relatives holdings each month.
On the android app it looks as if you can add additional holders. Alternatively the app certainly works flawlessly for a single holder so if they have android phones you could set them up and leave them to it.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
I read (through a link on here which I've forgotten, sorry) of one Labour MP who was telling his constituents that they could safely vote for him because he wouldn't vote for Mr Corbyn to be PM.
That sounded to me as though the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, which I never heard of before.
FPT For our PB "we are really sovereign" Remoaners.
Imagine you're sitting in a room, and you want to leave. The door is ajar. The 27 other guys in the room tell you that "you're free to leave at any time".
But then they add, "by the way, if you do try and leave, there is a ravenous Doberman right outside, who will probably bite off your penis. We've deliberately kept him hungry for a week, though we used your money to feed him in the past. And if you get beyond the dog, we've built a moat full of angry crocodiles. Good luck!"
Are you, in fact, "free to leave the room"? Legalistically, maybe yes, but in actuality, in the real world? No. Not at all.
If Brexit is as bad as Remoaners say, then we were and are no longer sovereign in the EU. And this implicit imprisonment was only going to get worse, given the plans to widen the moat and buy another Doberman.
We have to make a run for it.
You are sitting in a nice warm club with 27 other folk, having a great time.
Then a spiv in Union Flag shoes shows up and whispers in your ear, "This club sucks. And a swarthy looking gentleman of the WOG persuasion is about to come in, sit in your chair, steal your drink and rape your wife. Best get out of here. And I know there is a Doberman outside, but he won't bite you, because you are special"
AND YOU BELIEVED HIM!
ROFLMAO
Trouble is, we really are gonna make a run for it, WE HAD A VOTE ON IT, and YOU LOST.
And worst of all, you poor saps are shackled to us, so you have to come with us even as we bolt, even as you scream NO NO NO THIS IS INSANE - and even better than that - the Doberman will probably bite off your penis, not mine, coz I'm a millionaire thriller writer in Primrose Hill, and I've got a private helicopter waiting in the yard, with room for one.
CHORTLE
So you're comparing Brexit to the Vietnam War?
The less technically advanced side won?
Scott_P in the aptly named movie aliens: Hey, maybe you haven’t been keeping up with current events, but we just got our asses kicked pal!
Hey, Scott_P, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate PB Tories will protect you! Check it out. Independently targeting particle-beam phalanx. WHAP! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase plasma pulse rifles, RPGs. We got sonic, electronic ball-breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
I read (through a link on here which I've forgotten, sorry) of one Labour MP who was telling his constituents that they could safely vote for him because he wouldn't vote for Mt Corbyn to be PM.
That sounded to me as though the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, which I never heard of before.
Anybody else notice this?
The PM has to command a majority of the House. So I suppose if enough of the PLP failed to support him on a confidence issue he wouldn't be PM, or not for very long.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
I read (through a link on here which I've forgotten, sorry) of one Labour MP who was telling his constituents that they could safely vote for him because he wouldn't vote for Mr Corbyn to be PM.
That sounded to me as though the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, which I never heard of before.
Anybody else notice this?
(edited for typo)
I presume that was JOhn Woodcock, who has says he cannot support Corbyn as PM, but I presume that does not mean the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, just that he personally will not back the man in such a role generally?
But at least he is honest, even if his position is a bit odd.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Indeed. And up until now, unless they've openly disavowed him like woodcock, they have implicitly been saying they want him to prime minister. Junking him now is too late, it's not credible and the Tories would hit them just as hard. They have to wait it once more.
It's not too late....it would completely change the momentum of the election into something completely unpredictable. It would have to be a coronation for Starmer or Watson; Starmer by virtue that he is leading Brexit/ a two year timetable with a backhand deal that the 5% change gets passed through the NEC. It is the only way IMO to avoid a terrible, acrimonious, destructive battle for the heart of the party after a Corbyn landslide defeat.
Voted LibDem today even though the very nice secretary of our CLP is standing in my ward. Can't see myself voting for them at the GE, though, so it may be a spoiled ballot paper for me. There were a fair few people voting at the same time as me and I think close to 1,000 had been through the doors by 3.30 pm when I was there, which seems quite high for a local election.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
I read (through a link on here which I've forgotten, sorry) of one Labour MP who was telling his constituents that they could safely vote for him because he wouldn't vote for Mr Corbyn to be PM.
That sounded to me as though the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, which I never heard of before.
Anybody else notice this?
The PM has to command a majority of the House. So I suppose if enough of the PLP failed to support him on a confidence issue he wouldn't be PM, or not for very long.
Many thanks. So (some) Labour MPs hope to win the GE, vote down PM Corbyn's first measure, and install A. N. Other as PM within the first few weeks? The mind boggles.
Could you imagine if Corbyn stepped down after today's results and Tom Watson or Starmer took over for the election? I think we would see just how flakey the Tories lead actually is.
It's not going to happen of course.......
Could Labour fill a vacancy that quickly?
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
Indeed. And up until now, unless they've openly disavowed him like woodcock, they have implicitly been saying they want him to prime minister. Junking him now is too late, it's not credible and the Tories would hit them just as hard. They have to wait it once more.
It's not too late....it would completely change the momentum of the election into something completely unpredictable. It would have to be a coronation for Starmer or Watson; Starmer by virtue that he is leading Brexit/ a two year timetable with a backhand deal that the 5% change gets passed through the NEC. It is the only way IMO to avoid a terrible, acrimonious, battle for the heart of the party after a Corbyn landslide defeat.
But Starmer is, implicitly or explicitly, at the moment saying 'vote for Corbyn for PM', so even if a coronation the Tory argument that a vote for Labour is for Corbyn style policies works, with the added chaos of a sudden change in leader which would not be universally accepted by members even if Corbyn said it was of his volition - there would be disruption and infighting, even more chaos for the Tories topoint to.
Give Corbyn's had an ok start, it might even make things worse, and surely not that much better.
Comments
Did anyone else just get this as a BBC Breaking News alert and push notification on their phone?
https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/860099434905980928
@Douglas Carswell Looks like 3.8 million other voters also think it's a case of "job done - make sure May gets on with it" https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/860115850577289217 …
Tweet unavailable......
The best I've ever had was "Tim, dance with me. I've never danced with a spy before." I guess I looked like a spy.
Negatives for Chi Onwurah - Even TSE is chastising her on twitter
Or if Chinese, Ms Ling.
The same hypocrisy is also evident when terms such as "members of the public" and "public transport" are used.
Even Hitler - even Hitler for goodness sake! - never clearly and unambiguously advocated in writing the scale of mass murder that H G Wells called for in his bestselling book "Anticipations". The idiotic belief that some people are born clever and others are born stupid - often sugarcoated with the mealymouthed idea that people are born with different "potential" - is very widely believed in Britain among, say, not just the top 0.01% but the top 30%.
But auto correct did its magic and produced a typo that would lead a black eye for me from Sean
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Star by Kiki Dee?
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/860120325715091457
1. Some healthy cynicism there
2. That's one in the eye for the "this/that/the other horrible thing was caused by thickos believing everything they read in the Daily Mail" theory
“Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth” ?
BTW I'm an agnostic, but I just took up the challenge as an intellectual exercise. I'm sur ethat you can find a quote in the Bible to support almost any assertion.
To me, I am clearly not, although I am invited to meet them if and when they need my knowledge.
My first reaction to your post is that I have not found the elite to be particularly exclusive. Then my second reaction is that, in some ways, they are like the British - everyone is tolerated, but you'll never be one of them. My third reaction is that, the elite is very much a combination of meritocracy and power/means. It is not a closed or unchanging group - indeed, Obama is clearly now in the elite but did not start out that way, in the same way that Mark Zuckerberg, Gates and the Google guys are now in the elite.
So, on your basic point, I believe very much that we grow our potential (or let it wither on the vine) by means of the work we put into challenging ourselves and stretching our abilities.
The best book I know on this is Mindset, by Carol Dweck. Mihali Csickszentmihalyi's Flow talk about happiness deriving from challenging ourselves to the maximum (and a bit more) or our current abilities.
How hard would it be for you to find out your partner's number?
Hint: browsers will auto-fill it anyway.
Mind you, when I look at Gothic altar screens with Jesus at the top and statues of apostles and bishops all arranged in levels below, and I think of phrases such as "Our Lord Jesus", and I see all the church memorials commemorating imperialist soldiers who died to keep China British, etc., it's not Keir Hardie who comes to mind.
For "natural order" - but property developers and other spivs welcome so long as they know their place - which party should one recommend? Love it! You said it! High five!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk
Definitely 'Republic of China' on the passports though...
Is @SeanT dating... Ms Skynhutch?
Vation?
Ofdavid?
Tyourengines?
In freer societies, you're more likely to find out when the media's full of shit.
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/860142387519254529
https://youtu.be/iudmMgbAAmI
Given Labour's propensity to raise taxes, it's a good thing Jesus was so forgiving of tax collectors..
Tories still 20 points ahead.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
It's not going to happen of course.......
If not then they go into an election with a deputy leader and no real indication of who will take over afterwards. I can't see how that improves their prospects.
I think they could give Peter Sutcliffe a run for his money.
2 x 25 for me this month. meh.
That sounded to me as though the PLP votes for PM candidates after a GE, which I never heard of before.
Anybody else notice this?
(edited for typo)
I'm investing in Macron shares right now
But at least he is honest, even if his position is a bit odd.
It's not too late....it would completely change the momentum of the election into something completely unpredictable. It would have to be a coronation for Starmer or Watson; Starmer by virtue that he is leading Brexit/ a two year timetable with a backhand deal that the 5% change gets passed through the NEC. It is the only way IMO to avoid a terrible, acrimonious, destructive battle for the heart of the party after a Corbyn landslide defeat.
Give Corbyn's had an ok start, it might even make things worse, and surely not that much better.