Three of the most famously recorded instances of "Loony Left" activities, "Baa Baa White Sheep", renaming manhole covers, and "black bin-liner bags" were myths, outright fabrications by the press. Others stories, such as reports that London councils had insisted that homosexuals be placed at the heads of the waiting lists for council housing and that London councils had spent £0.5millions on "24 super-loos for gypsies" were found to be highly misleading upon investigation by the Media Research Group of Goldsmiths' College, University of London.[12][13]
I think Brown's 29% was nowhere near Labour's core. He (and Mandy to be fair) frightened millions of public sector workers into believing that their jobs and fantastic benefits were at risk with a change of government. In fairness for a million that will prove to have been the case.
But next time people will ask with which government would I feel most financially secure? In the 80s the tories used to be ahead of Labour on who would best deal with unemployment. They are behind at the moment but not by much. They may well have a good story to tell by the election.
My guess is that there are a lot of 2010 Labour supporters who are gettable for the tories. Doesn't mean they will and the positioning with UKIP to the right is undoubtedly tricky but assumptions that Labour have a firm base to which the Lib Dems can be added are simplistic.
For the avoidance of doubt I would not doubt that the tory core vote has fallen too. People are just not as politically committed as they used to be and votes will be more volatile as a result.
I'm not sure "Tory cleared of corruption" is going to be your most fruitful attack line ever. You might consider rolling out one of your alternatives instead?
Sean T - If the LD vote remains around 10% the Tories can win even if Labour get 35%. In 1979 for instance Thatcher won with 43%, Labour got 36% and the LDs 13%
I recall going to an intv as a student at Goldsmiths and being seen by an enormous fat woman whose flies were down on her stretchy polyester trousers. She was wearing pink knickers and was reclining in her swivel chair and smoking a fag.
Three of the most famously recorded instances of "Loony Left" activities, "Baa Baa White Sheep", renaming manhole covers, and "black bin-liner bags" were myths, outright fabrications by the press. Others stories, such as reports that London councils had insisted that homosexuals be placed at the heads of the waiting lists for council housing and that London councils had spent £0.5millions on "24 super-loos for gypsies" were found to be highly misleading upon investigation by the Media Research Group of Goldsmiths' College, University of London.[12][13]
The four most expensive words in the English language:
This Time It's Different.
Well next time it will be. We have not had a GE after five years of coalition government since 1945.
We have never seen a party so heavily defeated in a GE rebound so quickly and so solidly as Labour did in the early summer of 2010. It's possible the 2010 LDs who have so consistently said they'll vote Labour since then may decide to stay at home or plump for UKIP on the day of the GE, but I'd argue that they are proven voters who are strongly anti-Tory and so are quite likely to be motivated to go to the polls to express their dislike. The Tories seem to have recognised this too and have given up on appealing to erstwhile LDs and Labour voters to go in search of UKIP ones instead.
Also, They Banned black coffee. "Without milk" indeed!
And do PBers remember when Stephen Hawking got put in a wheelchair for discovering the quantum radiation from Black holes?
Hee hee
What about when Labour councillors reported another party for racism because they called white people "monkeys" tim, that was made up to make the lefties look like wallys too wasn't it?!!
I'm finding this all very amusing - why any Lefty is pretending that it wasn't the party of some colossal stupidity is bizarre. Some of us who were on the ground at the time quite clearly know what was going on.
They'd be much better off just accepting it was stupid and move on than pretend it never happened
That documentary from the US is just Brass Eye on a stick!
Great to hear you're so busy - fingers crossed its happening everywhere else soon too.
I think it will, confidence is the key and it has returned, people have had 5 years of negativity and have been scared to spend money. The mood has changed, caused by a number of factors, and this confidence will breed more confidence and by election time we could be seeing annual growth approaching 3%, falling unemployment, a buoyant housing market and rising living standards. What will Labours pitch be in these circumstances.
Some of us who were on the ground at the time quite clearly know what was going on.
But did any of these things really happen or is this like the time you told us that your union in BT became more militant /uninterested in its members after it it merged with a bigger union when no such merger actually happened?
I'm finding this all very amusing - why any Lefty is pretending that it wasn't the party of some colossal stupidity is bizarre. Some of us who were on the ground at the time quite clearly know what was going on.
They'd be much better off just accepting it was stupid and move on than pretend it never happened
That documentary from the US is just Brass Eye on a stick!
I grew up in a London borough in the eighties, my Dad worked for the ILEA, my mum for Tower Hamlets council and I can guarantee it happened
"Exit checks at every port and airport to track who is leaving Britain will not be in place by 2015, Nick Clegg admitted today.
The Deputy Prime Minister revealed his growing anger at the Home Office’s failure to push set up border checks in a bid to monitor who has outstayed visas.
He admitted a key pledge made when the coalition was formed in 2010 will not be met before the next election.
Just six weeks ago the top official at the Home Office told MPs that the target would still be met.
But Mr Clegg revealed that he has had concerns about efforts made to introduce border checks ‘for some time’.
A major obstacle has been the introduction of the much-delayed £750million e-borders scheme, which will collate and story information on every passenger entering and leaving Britain on a single database.
Mr Clegg's admission came as he renewed his criticism of Home Office vans which tell people in Britain illegally to 'go home'.
A campaign group has warned the government it has until August 8 to agree to ditch the 'offensive' campaign or they will apply for a judicial review."
Seems silly to deny the loony left was alive and well in the 80s. Like others I saw it and experienced it with my own eyes, and hated it with a passion - self-indulgent, self-righteous, illiberal and an utter disgrace. Neil Kinnock's taking on of militant and his conference speech in whatever year was among the bravest and most important political acts of my lifetime (which makes his own self-indulgent self-righteousness of recent years so sad).
That said, it is equally silly to deny that the press made a whole heap of stories up about what loony left councils were supposed to have done. Banning black bin bags in Haringey is a new one on me though; I spent a great deal of time there in the mid-80s and have no memory of that - probably because it did not happen.
I recall going to an intv as a student at Goldsmiths and being seen by an enormous fat woman whose flies were down on her stretchy polyester trousers. She was wearing pink knickers and was reclining in her swivel chair and smoking a fag.
I meant didnt you pick up this issue from Stormfront originally? I thought you implied as much when we last spoke about this on pbc. If that's where you got it from I would have thought a credit might have been in order.
I'm sure there will be plenty of comments on Sean T's latest article — just not on the actual page where it's officially published. Bit bizarre but that's life I suppose.
Reminds me of Irish women being allowed to have abortions as long as they don't take place in Ireland.
I'm sure there will be plenty of comments on Sean T's latest article — just not on the actual page where it's officially published. Bit bizarre but that's life I suppose.
Reminds me of Irish women being allowed to have abortions as long as they don't take place in Ireland.
I read a report saying that 4000 Irish ladies come to the UK every year for an abortion.
Are the English media anti the Scots ? It is coming up to about a month after Andy Murray won Wimbledon and apart from a couple of days press coverage about the 77 years drought being broken, there has not been much since. If Tim Henman had won Wimbledon, I think we would have had much more coverage in the media. I am glad in a way, because I want Murray to be concentrating on winning more grand slam titles and not spending too much time doing interviews for the media.
The borough and its largest conurbation take their name from the Anglo-Saxon phrase croeas deanas, and later crogdene, which, contrary to Croydon’s current appearance, meant ‘valley of the crocuses’. The valley was no doubt a centre of crocus cultivation, yielding saffron.
Ealing
Ealing was first recorded as Gillingas around 700 AD. Gillas was another of these local chieftans, and the ‘ingas’ part denotes ‘the followers of’. The spelling has since flitted among Illing, Gilling and Ylling, before finally settling on Ealing.
Why does the murder of Stephen Lawrence get more attention than the murder of Keith Blakelock? I thought we were all supposed to be equal.
I don't think you can have been around in the 80s if you seriously believe the Blakelock murder did not get huge attention over an extended period of time.. Perhaps the biggest factor in the Lawrence murder being picked up was the decision of the Mail to run with it and the finding of institutional racism in how the police conducted their initial investigation.that's no excuse for brushing other racist murders under the carpet though. What SeanT highlights in his piece is disgraceful and helps no-one.
The Conservatives are the Westminster party most regarded as Eurosceptic, and as a Coalition partner in this Government they have not been shy to wave those credentials at various EU summits. So why do you think the Tories would score as low as 19% in the Euro's this time around with only a year to go to the next GE? The last Euro elections were held in the aftermath of the Westminster expenses scandal, and there is no doubt that gave UKIP a boost as the none of that lot party. I do wonder if we are in danger of overestimating the expected performance of both Labour and UKIP in those elections?
When you previously asked what linked those victims and I responded that they all feature in Stormfront articles you said that it was a scandal that only Stormfront would cover it. That is where I got the impression that you might have learnt some of the facts the piece relies on from Stormfront. If you didnt then I can see why they dont deserve a credit.
I'm sure there will be plenty of comments on Sean T's latest article — just not on the actual page where it's officially published. Bit bizarre but that's life I suppose.
Reminds me of Irish women being allowed to have abortions as long as they don't take place in Ireland.
So, ask yourself, Neil, who is being a presumptuous bigoted moderated here, coz it isn't me.
I dont think there is anything bigoted about thinking you got a story from Stormfront after we previously spoke about the similar stories in Stormfront. It's more mistaken than bigoted, surely? So you and Stormfront developed your concerns about this independently, hardly the biggest deal in the world.
Chris Rennard @LordRennard .@ChrisBryantMP Cheap and unworthy of you. Without us there would not now be same sex marriage legislation. Without Blair, no Iraq War.
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Is it perhaps possible that the grey ones were cheaper to manufacture or to procure? You could certainly buy black bags all over Haringey and the council took them away if you put them in your bin - many of which were black themselves.
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Proving what?
Thanks for what, the banning of black bin liners,black coffee and Baa Baa black sheep in London during the eighties are urban myths. It's like people wanting to believe the stories about Seaman Stains and Roger the Cabin Boy being genuine Captain Pugwash characters.
We had one recently posted on here by the usual suspects about a St George's flag being "banned" because it might offend Muslims, one councillor expressed an opinion. Same with Sams story about Birmingham in 1999, one person said something. There were loads of Stories invented in the press
"Sams story" haha as if it were me that made it up!
I see that " urban myth" is the new " anecdote". The wiki entry under " Loony Left" relied on as evidence that these are urban myths is itself the most poorly sourced I have ever seen on wiki.
if we are going to treat wiki as authoritative, "winterval" was for real and makes the point that the loony left exists and is loony and left all by itself.
Mike, Cable as a serving Libdem MP used to have the highest profile outside the party Leader and appeared quite popular with the wider public. So its quite interesting that Alexander has scored higher in this ConHom poll, it suggests that Cable's stock has fallen along with his profile as a Minister in recent years, and this news bodes well for Alexander.
If Clegg and Vince want to hug illegal immigrants - I say let them. No one else does.
Actually, Clegg is saying that if you are serious about chasing up illegal immigrants, then the HO needs to pull its finger out and get the exit checks in place, and stop so much time being wasted looking for people who have already left the country. Of course, actually counting the people leaving would stop newspapers making up numbers, so I can see why some people would want to delay introducing the checks until after the GE.
For example. A council may make the democratic decision to change the colour of bin bags in order to not offend anyone. Or to refer to Xmas as Winterval etc, etc. This does not necessarily mean that a particular colour of bin bag or Xmas or whatever is now banned. Do you now see the distinction?
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Proving what?
Thanks for what, the banning of black bin liners,black coffee and Baa Baa black sheep in London during the eighties are urban myths. It's like people wanting to believe the stories about Seaman Stains and Roger the Cabin Boy being genuine Captain Pugwash characters.
We had one recently posted on here by the usual suspects about a St George's flag being "banned" because it might offend Muslims, one councillor expressed an opinion. Same with Sams story about Birmingham in 1999, one person said something. There were loads of Stories invented in the press
antifrank, I think that should be the title of the 2015 Labour manifesto for their GE campaign. Looking at NickP's potted Labour strategy for the next GE on the earlier thread, I was tempted to suggest that it risked sounding like that old boyfriend who keeps promising to change, but never does. If CCHQ are on the ball, they will already be thinking up an appropriate poster campaign.
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Is it perhaps possible that the grey ones were cheaper to manufacture or to procure? You could certainly buy black bags all over Haringey and the council took them away if you put them in your bin - many of which were black themselves.
I don't need to prove anything to you. If you are really that bothered about my anecdote, come to the next Dirty Dicks do and we can discuss it there. Although I suspect you wont.
For example. A council may make the democratic decision to change the colour of bin bags in order to not offend anyone. Or to refer to Xmas as Winterval etc, etc. This does not necessarily mean that a particular colour of bin bag or Xmas or whatever is now banned. Do you now see the distinction?
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Proving what?
Thanks for what, the banning of black bin liners,black coffee and Baa Baa black sheep in London during the eighties are urban myths. It's like people wanting to believe the stories about Seaman Stains and Roger the Cabin Boy being genuine Captain Pugwash characters.
We had one recently posted on here by the usual suspects about a St George's flag being "banned" because it might offend Muslims, one councillor expressed an opinion. Same with Sams story about Birmingham in 1999, one person said something. There were loads of Stories invented in the press
Isn't it remarkable how we are experiencing false consciousness?
Some people on here believe they actually saw the 1994 World Cup played with enlarged goals. It's still nonsense.
Is it perhaps possible that the grey ones were cheaper to manufacture or to procure? You could certainly buy black bags all over Haringey and the council took them away if you put them in your bin - many of which were black themselves.
Fair enough. But a switch from black to grey bin bags does seem a strange thing to bring up on PB a propos of nothing. Each to his own, I suppose!
@SeanT In 10,000 edits to Wikipedia I've never come across any form of systematic left-wing bias, not one that's held up across multiple articles for extended periods of time.
Charlene Downes' article was deleted in 2007. Her article read:
"Charlene Downes (March 25 1989 - on or after November 1 2003) was a teenager from [[Blackpool]], [[Great Britain]], who was allegedly murdered at age of 14. Charlene disappeared on November 1, 2003. She has never been seen since then and her body has not been found. In March 2006 two men were charged with her murder. These two men were owners of a takeaway restaurant, and a local newspaper reported that they cut up and disposed the body of their victim in the food sold at the restaurant. [[Far right]] organisations in Britain criticised the [[mainstream media]] for suppressing the information about the murder because the two accused men are foreign born (from [[Jordan]] and [[Iran]]). [[Bloggers]] [[Natalie Solent]] and [[Laban Tall]] leveled a similar accusation at Wikipedia.[http://nataliesolent.blogspot.com/] [http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2007/06/wikipedia-memory-hole.html] The trial of Iyad Albattikhi, accused of her murder, and Mohammed Reveshi, accused of helping to dispose of her body, began in May of 2007"
Still think Sean has made a valid point though. Both of these wiki articles include acknowledgements that the BBC and other media did not give the crimes and trials sufficient attention.
Still think Sean has made a valid point though. Both of these wiki articles include acknowledgements that the BBC and other media did not give the crimes and trials sufficient attention.
A brave piece.
Wasn't there a white boy killed near King's Cross? Richard Everitt?
The worry for Labour is that online polling is currently flattering them as the only main opposition. I do wonder if we might now be seeing a new phenomenon that sees Opposition party numbers being boosted by a very motivated online loud protest in much the same way that phone polling masked the 'shy Tory' vote in the past. With online polling expanding as phone polling decreases due to costs, its going to be interesting to see who comes out on top at the next GE. Just remember that last GE exit poll vs the pre GE Cleggism bounce in polling, the Cleggism bounce was more marked in online polling.
It is quite possible that, come the GE, we can knock 5% or more from whatever Labour are polling. Putting them back down around Brown's 30%.
The 5% being left-leaning, anti-Tory 2010 Lib Dems, yes?
Interesting to see how the the Tories pull that one off, even with the predictable support of most of the print media.
I don't say the Tories can't win (most seats, a majority looks hugely unlikely). I just struggle to see where the votes are for them, given the political dynamics and electoral map.
5% being: people who, in the end: don't care, won't vote, are kind of Lib Dem actually, feel a bit UKIPpy on the day, have a cold, go shopping, think that Cameron has done alright surprisingly, are really menstruating heavily, like Labour but loathe Ed Miliband, etc.
Recall this is the midterm of a very unpopular Coalition at a time of savage decline in living standards... and according to ICM the two main parties are neck-and-neck.
The idea that Labour's 35% polling is a "core vote" is FATUOUS.
Just checked out Toby Young's appearance on last nights Newsnight - #carcrash
"won".
I think this is a common fault with rightwing journos. They tend to be from a nice gentlemanly background and are easily ambushed by pushy, arriviste leftwingers with a more ruthless and combative mentality.
Always Do Your Research. Make sure you are Loaded for Bear.
The tits comment was at the end of the debate, he was road kill long before then
No, he wasn't. It was mainly dull to that point: he was essentially agreeing with her, with some caveats, yawn. He should, if anything, have been punchier. His problem is that he is hamstrung by his desire to appear totally above board - coz of his position in education.
After the "tits" thing, yes he certainly flailed.
Toby never has a problem putting the boot in in his columns. He makes things up, distorts and throws insults around with the best of them, with no thought to being above board because of education. His problems yesterday were, as you say, not being able to deal with the arguments coming back at him. Clearly, he can give but struggles to receive. Other right-wingers - Melanie Philips, Peter Hitchens, David Starkey, for example - have no such problems. Toby is just not very good.
@chrisshipitv: When in hole Lord Howell keeps digging. Tells @Telegraph he didn't mean NE. Meant NW:"unloved places that are not environmentally sensitive"
Hopefully tomorrow he'll go for the South West.Or East Anglia
Or just shut the **** up. It is an option, even for politicians.
I can assure you that the deletion of the article as it was presented at the time was not at all surprising in light of the general notability guideline and some other Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Subsequent events have made the subject more notable, but the article would be (and would have been) much better located at "Disappearance of Charlene Downes". I think the article could be recreated on that basis.
Nobody deletes an article because its existence might further the BNP. On Wikipedia we have holocausts and pogroms, genocides and mass murders, mass starvation, famine, checas and work camps. We're used to political controversy. The secret is to ensure the flag pole goes up straight - as we like to say - not by people not pushing, but from people pushing equally from both sides.
@SeanT I caught the whole Newsnight report and this debate, and your bang on the money with your analysis. I was quite impressed with the Newsnight report that preceded the Creasy/Young debate, and I also thought that Young was trying so hard to be reasonable that he came across as if he was tip toeing across the whole issue. I thought Creasy was wrong to make that cheap shot at Toby which muddied the waters of the debate, especially when she had been coming across exceptional well on the more substantive issue of the threatening abuse she had been subjected to on twitter.
I fully support Stella Creasy's campaign to outlaw the kind of online vile and violent abuse she has been on the receiving in the last few days, there is no place for this kind of behaviour when it would be a criminal offence on the street. But on the other hand, if those who are campaigning to try and outlaw this behaviour then try to conflate this kind of organised abuse with general harmless gender banter they will struggle to garner more support because you do then stray into the territory of free speech. The vile abuse Stella Creasy had to endure on twitter was a criminal offence, and it should not be confused with the issue of free speech.
Last night Toby Young ended up in a twitter spate with Penny Red, I read and followed what happened with increasing interest. Penny Red's behaviour was reprehensible and downright irresponsible. And the way she managed to hype up the spate by misquoting, and therefore misrepresenting what Toby had actually said until the point he too ended receiving some pretty ill informed abuse was very illuminating. So excuse me if I took some of the 'left leaning' gloating on here about Toby's performance with a large pinch of salt today.
No, he wasn't. It was mainly dull to that point: he was essentially agreeing with her, with some caveats, yawn. He should, if anything, have been punchier. His problem is that he is hamstrung by his desire to appear totally above board - coz of his position in education.
Where Hopi goes wrong is to ignore totally the fact that there is no precedent for the current coalition situation
My view is simple. While so many 2010 LDs stick with Labour there's no way that the Tories can win.
This gives Labour 6-7% on the 30% of last time a total that makes it enormously difficult for the Tories.
The current moves by Crosby simple reinforce the position of the 2010 LDs who've switched
I don't "totally ignore" the impact of LibDem switchers on Labour's current share: I specifically quote Andrew Harrop's work on the views of what he calls "Ed's converts" (mostly 2010 LDs). Andrew's argument is that these voter's views are to o e the left of the political spectrum, and so will be a more reliable part of Labour's electoral coalition than most mid term supporters.
However, I'm not fully convinced. There's a tendency in labour circles to treat the 2010 LD converts as if they were an army of Sunny Hundal's. But looking at the internals of yougov polls, the biggest shift in support of 2010 LD voters in last year has been away from labour and towards the LDs and UKIP: . I'll come back to this on my blog tmw as it's late.
Mike, Cable as a serving Libdem MP used to have the highest profile outside the party Leader and appeared quite popular with the wider public. So its quite interesting that Alexander has scored higher in this ConHom poll, it suggests that Cable's stock has fallen along with his profile as a Minister in recent years, and this news bodes well for Alexander.
Vince Cable lowest rating on ConHome survey but Danny A above Cameron . Conclusions ?
Conclusion - lib dems seem to like con home more than conservatives.
I can assure you that Danny Alexander's standing among Tories does not bode well for him, the fact that he is seen as Osbornes poodle by many in the party is the reason he's such long odds to be leader
Danny Alexander's standing among Tories is nothing to do with his political views or positioning, nor is it anything to do with his loyalty or otherwise to Osborne.
It is purely based on the competence with which he has carried out an extremely difficult job and the way in which he has avoided - at least in public - unnecessary and divisive intra-coalition politicking.
Bang on the money with that assessment. And that was a position that Cable used to enjoy and exploit in spades while in Opposition, much to the discomfort of his own leader Nick Clegg! If we look at the previous electorate wide personal polling that Cable used to enjoy in Opposition, and even in the early days of the Coalition in ConHom polls. We would be looking at the most coiffured and pampered lefty Libdem poodle dressed as centrist one in UK politics!
Mike, Cable as a serving Libdem MP used to have the highest profile outside the party Leader and appeared quite popular with the wider public. So its quite interesting that Alexander has scored higher in this ConHom poll, it suggests that Cable's stock has fallen along with his profile as a Minister in recent years, and this news bodes well for Alexander.
Vince Cable lowest rating on ConHome survey but Danny A above Cameron . Conclusions ?
Conclusion - lib dems seem to like con home more than conservatives.
I can assure you that Danny Alexander's standing among Tories does not bode well for him, the fact that he is seen as Osbornes poodle by many in the party is the reason he's such long odds to be leader
Danny Alexander's standing among Tories is nothing to do with his political views or positioning, nor is it anything to do with his loyalty or otherwise to Osborne.
It is purely based on the competence with which he has carried out an extremely difficult job and the way in which he has avoided - at least in public - unnecessary and divisive intra-coalition politicking.
Nice try, the SNP administration at Holyrood have got plenty of form for being dishonest with the public at a Government level without resorting to this kind of petty campaign tactics. But it all adds grist to the mill of a party that cannot even be honest at the most basic level of campaigning, never mind in Government. Luckily you have the Scottish media rather than the British media scrutinising your behaviour, even if you do spend a far amount of time slagging them off for even daring to have the temerity to give the SNP's behaviour a passing glance.
Yes Blair told lies over Iraq. More than a decade ago. So what?
The expenses scandal was an abuse of an inadequate system. With some, largely Labour, exceptions it did not involve dishonesty no matter how immoral it was.
"So what" for the Iraq war and " it did not involve dishonesty" and it's the systems fault for the expenses scandal. You're quite sure that's what you want on record? Your choice. Your side-splittingly hilarious choice.
Even more staggering, you actually pretend to believe that a couple of photos from an event which had SNP and Labour activists campaigning together for Yes is what makes the SNP "simply the most dishonest party in the UK".
ROFL
I now realise you are a spoof poster. I admit it, despite your blatantly unhinged assertions I almost took you seriously. Well done sir. Carry on the spoofing.
I can assure you that the deletion of the article as it was presented at the time was not at all surprising in light of the general notability guideline and some other Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Subsequent events have made the subject more notable, but the article would be (and would have been) much better located at "Murder of Charlene Downes". I think the article could be recreated on that basis.
Nobody deletes an article because its existence might further the BNP. On Wikipedia we have holocausts and pogroms, genocides and mass murders, mass starvation, famine, checas and work camps. We're used to political controversy. The secret is to ensure the flag pole goes up straight - as we like to say - not by people not pushing, but from people pushing equally from both sides.
No one deletes an article because its existence might further the BNP?
Here is the debate page on the deletion of the Charlene Downes entry.
"This article and the others in the series, all written in order to promote a BNP campaign and to advance racial hatred, should (I nearly said will) be deleted. --Tony Sidaway 16:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)"
And thus it was deleted.
It was not "thus" deleted at all, Sean. At least three other reasons were given that actually relate to Wikipedia policies and guidelines on notability and the creation of articles. I can not iterate enough that people throw anything they think is relevant into discussions such as that deletion discussion, but the decision should, and normally is, made only on the valid arguments presented. Just because a line of argument has been advanced does not mean it contributes to the outcome of a discussion (nor is Wikipedia a democracy).
Nice try, the SNP administration at Holyrood have got plenty of form for being dishonest with the public at a Government level without resorting to this kind of petty campaign tactics. But it all adds grist to the mill of a party that cannot even be honest at the most basic level of campaigning, never mind in Government. Luckily you have the Scottish media rather than the British media scrutinising your behaviour, even if you do spend a far amount of time slagging them off for even daring to have the temerity to give the SNP's behaviour a passing glance.
Yes Blair told lies over Iraq. More than a decade ago. So what?
The expenses scandal was an abuse of an inadequate system. With some, largely Labour, exceptions it did not involve dishonesty no matter how immoral it was.
"So what" for the Iraq war and " it did not involve dishonesty" and it's the systems fault for the expenses scandal. You're quite sure that's what you want on record? Your choice. Your side-splittingly hilarious choice.
Even more staggering, you actually pretend to believe that a couple of photos from an event which had SNP and Labour activists campaigning together for Yes is what makes the SNP "simply the most dishonest party in the UK".
ROFL
I now realise you are a spoof poster. I admit it, despite your blatantly unhinged assertions I almost took you seriously. Well done sir. Carry on the spoofing.
Awww,, that's cute, the anti-tipster thinks she has the faintest idea about scottish politics despite being proved wrong so many times before. There was no scottish tory surge dear. It was the most stupid and hilarious prediction on PB even given Seth O Logue tipping Lansley to be PM. Annabel Goldie wasn't safe. She quit mere hours after you insisted she wasn't going anywhere. You even return to your bovine stupidity about Danny Alexander thinking that being rated well by a tory website means he must be doing great. On what planet do you live if you are so ludicrously out of touch not to realise that is pure poison and one of the reasons he is rated to lowly by his own lib dem members?
The SNP won a landslide in 2011 petal and the scottish tories are an irrelevance. Your inept tory spin and whining won't change the facts but it does at least provide some comedy relief.
Awww bless, that post I made about how dishonest the SNP are in Government must have really struck home base to warrant such a direct, personal and lengthy whinge about me. I really do hope that you keep up the anti tipster smear/theme in an attempt to try to undermine me and other posters here on the site who see through your partisan propaganda and knock it on the head.....As for whining, I think the sheer volume of your postings here means you win hands down on that front. I would love to note that you add real comedy value to this site, but then I would almost immediately be accused of being as dishonest as the SNP were when it came to their legal advice on the EU.
Nice try, the SNP administration at Holyrood have got plenty of form for being dishonest with the public at a Government level without resorting to this kind of petty campaign tactics. But it all adds grist to the mill of a party that cannot even be honest at the most basic level of campaigning, never mind in Government. Luckily you have the Scottish media rather than the British media scrutinising your behaviour, even if you do spend a far amount of time slagging them off for even daring to have the temerity to give the SNP's behaviour a passing glance.
Awww,, that's cute, the anti-tipster thinks she has the faintest idea about scottish politics despite being proved wrong so many times before. There was no scottish tory surge dear. It was the most stupid and hilarious prediction on PB even given Seth O Logue tipping Lansley to be PM. Annabel Goldie wasn't safe. She quit mere hours after you insisted she wasn't going anywhere. You even return to your bovine stupidity about Danny Alexander thinking that being rated well by a tory website means he must be doing great. On what planet do you live if you are so ludicrously out of touch not to realise that is pure poison and one of the reasons he is rated to lowly by his own lib dem members?
The SNP won a landslide in 2011 petal and the scottish tories are an irrelevance. Your inept tory spin and whining won't change the facts but it does at least provide some comedy relief.
Awww bless, that post I made about how dishonest the SNP are in Government
By "post" you mean baseless whining with no proof other than your typically out of touch and bonkers assertion that the SNP were somehow not being scrutinised by the scottish media. Only a scottish tory could possibly think that given the daily barrage against the SNP by the likes of the Scotsman, the Daily Record and so many other tame newspapers shilling for the unionist parties.
You were the one claiming there would be a scottish tory surge so unless you are so far gone you think you are smearing yourself then maybe not making comically stupid predictions is the best solution instead of petulantly shrieking "smear" at the top of your voice anytime you are called out for basic political incompetence and inept partisan tory spin.
I'm more than happy to let you keep the comedy coming with pure unadulterated partisan gibberish like this as a delightful example of comedy gold.
"Bang on the money with that assessment. And that was a position that Cable used to enjoy and exploit in spades while in Opposition, much to the discomfort of his own leader Nick Clegg! If we look at the previous electorate wide personal polling that Cable used to enjoy in Opposition, and even in the early days of the Coalition in ConHom polls. We would be looking at the most coiffured and pampered lefty Libdem poodle dressed as centrist one in UK politics! "
Careful, you may get the unspoofable badge of honour
Back her up then Rob. Do you think there will be a scottish tory surge or that Danny Alexander being rated highly by tories on conhome is somehow good for his standing either in scottish politics or with his own lib dem members? Don't be shy.
The borough and its largest conurbation take their name from the Anglo-Saxon phrase croeas deanas, and later crogdene, which, contrary to Croydon’s current appearance, meant ‘valley of the crocuses’. The valley was no doubt a centre of crocus cultivation, yielding saffron.
In the 1980s, the Croydon Advertiser had an April Fool's story saying that Croydon was going to change its name to Crogdene. The next week there were letters of complaint from a few gormless booliaks who had written the new name on their telephone directories, diaries, maps etc.
Back her up then Rob. Do you think there will be a scottish tory surge or that Danny Alexander being rated highly by tories on conhome is somehow good for his standing either in scottish politics or with his own lib dem members? Don't be shy.
Back her up then Rob. Do you think there will be a scottish tory surge or that Danny Alexander being rated highly by tories on conhome is somehow good for his standing either in scottish politics or with his own lib dem members? Don't be shy.
Just being a non member of the SNP gets you an 'unspoofable' Badge on honour from Mick on PB. Although he may want want to revisit that policy when it comes to the SNP record on legal advice.
Just being a non member of the SNP gets you an 'unspoofable' Badge on honour from Mick on PB.
I hear they are now masquerading as Labour members... titter.
I hear that pitiful and desperate stupidity was debunked and it was rehashed from that far right bastion of truth Paul Staines in the first place. *titter ye not* as Toby Young might say.
I hear that pitiful and desperate stupidity was debunked and it was rehashed from that far right bastion of truth Paul Staines in the first place. *titter ye not* as Toby Young might say.
Aww Mick, you're spoiling my fun with your 'facts'...
"Titter ye not". lol. I think we should use that more often in these parts!
I hear that pitiful and desperate stupidity was debunked and it was rehashed from that far right bastion of truth Paul Staines in the first place. *titter ye not* as Toby Young might say.
Aww Mick, you're spoiling my fun with your 'facts'...
"Titter ye not". lol. I think we should use that more often in these parts!
Edited for my pitiful grammar.
Well to be fair it is silly season and apart from the falling kipper share going back to the tories nothing much is happening. It's falling a wee bit faster than I had though it might after May but falling it most definitely is.
What will be intriguing will be to see if it can be maintained because there is absolutely a correlation between the closeness of the two big parties in VI polling and voters being far less willing to lend a party their protest vote. Put simply if tories think there's a chance they can get a hung parliament again or even win then a protest vote with the kippers looks far less 'safe' and disposeable than when the polls show they are getting beaten by some 10 points or so as they used to be.
That's what little Ed has to fear the most. The very impression that this is a two horse race again with everything to play for. Despite all the talk of core votes or 2010 lib dems the coalition is unprecedented in (recent) modern politics so the sheer amount of uncertainty and possible voter churn makes it perilous to call a core vote or high watermark number for any party.
We also have more than enough "events" to look forward to that will prove troubling for the coalition and indeed labour if Falkirk is any guide.
Comments
Enough said.
But next time people will ask with which government would I feel most financially secure? In the 80s the tories used to be ahead of Labour on who would best deal with unemployment. They are behind at the moment but not by much. They may well have a good story to tell by the election.
My guess is that there are a lot of 2010 Labour supporters who are gettable for the tories. Doesn't mean they will and the positioning with UKIP to the right is undoubtedly tricky but assumptions that Labour have a firm base to which the Lib Dems can be added are simplistic.
For the avoidance of doubt I would not doubt that the tory core vote has fallen too. People are just not as politically committed as they used to be and votes will be more volatile as a result.
I'm not sure "Tory cleared of corruption" is going to be your most fruitful attack line ever. You might consider rolling out one of your alternatives instead?
Great to hear you're so busy - fingers crossed its happening everywhere else soon too.
I recall going to an intv as a student at Goldsmiths and being seen by an enormous fat woman whose flies were down on her stretchy polyester trousers. She was wearing pink knickers and was reclining in her swivel chair and smoking a fag.
I declined the offer I was made.
We have never seen a party so heavily defeated in a GE rebound so quickly and so solidly as Labour did in the early summer of 2010. It's possible the 2010 LDs who have so consistently said they'll vote Labour since then may decide to stay at home or plump for UKIP on the day of the GE, but I'd argue that they are proven voters who are strongly anti-Tory and so are quite likely to be motivated to go to the polls to express their dislike. The Tories seem to have recognised this too and have given up on appealing to erstwhile LDs and Labour voters to go in search of UKIP ones instead.
Yes! Any of those are better than your crocodile tears for poor Mr Cruddas!
What about when Labour councillors reported another party for racism because they called white people "monkeys" tim, that was made up to make the lefties look like wallys too wasn't it?!!
I'm finding this all very amusing - why any Lefty is pretending that it wasn't the party of some colossal stupidity is bizarre. Some of us who were on the ground at the time quite clearly know what was going on.
They'd be much better off just accepting it was stupid and move on than pretend it never happened
That documentary from the US is just Brass Eye on a stick!
Oops those would be anecdotes
No credit for Stormfront?
Daily Mail - Home Office go-slow means exit checks at borders will NOT be re-introduced by 2015 amid legal challenge to 'go home' ad vans
"Exit checks at every port and airport to track who is leaving Britain will not be in place by 2015, Nick Clegg admitted today.
The Deputy Prime Minister revealed his growing anger at the Home Office’s failure to push set up border checks in a bid to monitor who has outstayed visas.
He admitted a key pledge made when the coalition was formed in 2010 will not be met before the next election.
Just six weeks ago the top official at the Home Office told MPs that the target would still be met.
But Mr Clegg revealed that he has had concerns about efforts made to introduce border checks ‘for some time’.
A major obstacle has been the introduction of the much-delayed £750million e-borders scheme, which will collate and story information on every passenger entering and leaving Britain on a single database.
Mr Clegg's admission came as he renewed his criticism of Home Office vans which tell people in Britain illegally to 'go home'.
A campaign group has warned the government it has until August 8 to agree to ditch the 'offensive' campaign or they will apply for a judicial review."
That said, it is equally silly to deny that the press made a whole heap of stories up about what loony left councils were supposed to have done. Banning black bin bags in Haringey is a new one on me though; I spent a great deal of time there in the mid-80s and have no memory of that - probably because it did not happen.
If Clegg and Vince want to hug illegal immigrants - I say let them. No one else does.
I meant didnt you pick up this issue from Stormfront originally? I thought you implied as much when we last spoke about this on pbc. If that's where you got it from I would have thought a credit might have been in order.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/600470.stm
Coffee without milk anyone?
Reminds me of Irish women being allowed to have abortions as long as they don't take place in Ireland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-23515152
Is the phrase 'playing like a girl' offensive?
Here are two
Croydon
The borough and its largest conurbation take their name from the Anglo-Saxon phrase croeas deanas, and later crogdene, which, contrary to Croydon’s current appearance, meant ‘valley of the crocuses’. The valley was no doubt a centre of crocus cultivation, yielding saffron.
Ealing
Ealing was first recorded as Gillingas around 700 AD. Gillas was another of these local chieftans, and the ‘ingas’ part denotes ‘the followers of’. The spelling has since flitted among Illing, Gilling and Ylling, before finally settling on Ealing.
When you previously asked what linked those victims and I responded that they all feature in Stormfront articles you said that it was a scandal that only Stormfront would cover it. That is where I got the impression that you might have learnt some of the facts the piece relies on from Stormfront. If you didnt then I can see why they dont deserve a credit.
http://www.zec.gov.zw/
In the post galavnized dustbin era, they started out black and were then changed to grey.
Chris Rennard @LordRennard
.@ChrisBryantMP Cheap and unworthy of you. Without us there would not now be same sex marriage legislation. Without Blair, no Iraq War.
Addicted to propaganda is old timbo
http://youtu.be/COt65HZCJaA
if we are going to treat wiki as authoritative, "winterval" was for real and makes the point that the loony left exists and is loony and left all by itself.
Of course, actually counting the people leaving would stop newspapers making up numbers, so I can see why some people would want to delay introducing the checks until after the GE.
Or to refer to Xmas as Winterval etc, etc.
This does not necessarily mean that a particular colour of bin bag or Xmas or whatever is now banned.
Do you now see the distinction?
Gradually he has been raising the level of seriousness.
Tonight, he has written what might be a journalistic classic.
It will make or break his reputation.
If you are really that bothered about my anecdote, come to the next Dirty Dicks do and we can discuss it there.
Although I suspect you wont.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kriss_Donald
Charlene Downes' article was deleted in 2007. Her article read:
"Charlene Downes (March 25 1989 - on or after November 1 2003) was a teenager from [[Blackpool]], [[Great Britain]], who was allegedly murdered at age of 14. Charlene disappeared on November 1, 2003. She has never been seen since then and her body has not been found. In March 2006 two men were charged with her murder. These two men were owners of a takeaway restaurant, and a local newspaper reported that they cut up and disposed the body of their victim in the food sold at the restaurant. [[Far right]] organisations in Britain criticised the [[mainstream media]] for suppressing the information about the murder because the two accused men are foreign born (from [[Jordan]] and [[Iran]]). [[Bloggers]] [[Natalie Solent]] and [[Laban Tall]] leveled a similar accusation at Wikipedia.[http://nataliesolent.blogspot.com/] [http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2007/06/wikipedia-memory-hole.html] The trial of Iyad Albattikhi, accused of her murder, and Mohammed Reveshi, accused of helping to dispose of her body, began in May of 2007"
The discussion that lead to its deletion is here.
That deletion discussion reads exactly as I would expect, having read perhaps 100 or more such discussions in my time.
Juries (a jury?) failed to reach verdict(s) on Iyad Albattikhi and Mohammed Reveshi.
Still think Sean has made a valid point though. Both of these wiki articles include acknowledgements that the BBC and other media did not give the crimes and trials sufficient attention.
A brave piece.
I can assure you that the deletion of the article as it was presented at the time was not at all surprising in light of the general notability guideline and some other Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Subsequent events have made the subject more notable, but the article would be (and would have been) much better located at "Disappearance of Charlene Downes". I think the article could be recreated on that basis.
Nobody deletes an article because its existence might further the BNP. On Wikipedia we have holocausts and pogroms, genocides and mass murders, mass starvation, famine, checas and work camps. We're used to political controversy. The secret is to ensure the flag pole goes up straight - as we like to say - not by people not pushing, but from people pushing equally from both sides.
Sean's article was both brave and wise, with well judged restraint.
Also fun, on PB, was the display of Neil's forensic cross-examination skills. Neil would make a great barrister.
Sean though should have answered that even if he had sourced material from Stormfront never in a million articles would he ever give them credit.
I fully support Stella Creasy's campaign to outlaw the kind of online vile and violent abuse she has been on the receiving in the last few days, there is no place for this kind of behaviour when it would be a criminal offence on the street. But on the other hand, if those who are campaigning to try and outlaw this behaviour then try to conflate this kind of organised abuse with general harmless gender banter they will struggle to garner more support because you do then stray into the territory of free speech. The vile abuse Stella Creasy had to endure on twitter was a criminal offence, and it should not be confused with the issue of free speech.
Last night Toby Young ended up in a twitter spate with Penny Red, I read and followed what happened with increasing interest. Penny Red's behaviour was reprehensible and downright irresponsible. And the way she managed to hype up the spate by misquoting, and therefore misrepresenting what Toby had actually said until the point he too ended receiving some pretty ill informed abuse was very illuminating. So excuse me if I took some of the 'left leaning' gloating on here about Toby's performance with a large pinch of salt today.
However, I'm not fully convinced. There's a tendency in labour circles to treat the 2010 LD converts as if they were an army of Sunny Hundal's. But looking at the internals of yougov polls, the biggest shift in support of 2010 LD voters in last year has been away from labour and towards the LDs and UKIP: . I'll come back to this on my blog tmw as it's late.
It is purely based on the competence with which he has carried out an extremely difficult job and the way in which he has avoided - at least in public - unnecessary and divisive intra-coalition politicking.
I have created a new article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Charlene_Downes
Toby Young article on the Newsnight interview with himself and Stella Creasy:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100228904/twitter-abuse-stella-creasy-has-over-stepped-the-mark/
The SNP won a landslide in 2011 petal and the scottish tories are an irrelevance.
Your inept tory spin and whining won't change the facts but it does at least provide some comedy relief.
You were the one claiming there would be a scottish tory surge so unless you are so far gone you think you are smearing yourself then maybe not making comically stupid predictions is the best solution instead of petulantly shrieking "smear" at the top of your voice anytime you are called out for basic political incompetence and inept partisan tory spin.
I'm more than happy to let you keep the comedy coming with pure unadulterated partisan gibberish like this as a delightful example of comedy gold.
"Bang on the money with that assessment. And that was a position that Cable used to enjoy and exploit in spades while in Opposition, much to the discomfort of his own leader Nick Clegg! If we look at the previous electorate wide personal polling that Cable used to enjoy in Opposition, and even in the early days of the Coalition in ConHom polls. We would be looking at the most coiffured and pampered lefty Libdem poodle dressed as centrist one in UK politics! "
LOL
"Titter ye not". lol. I think we should use that more often in these parts!
Edited for my pitiful grammar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
What will be intriguing will be to see if it can be maintained because there is absolutely a correlation between the closeness of the two big parties in VI polling and voters being far less willing to lend a party their protest vote. Put simply if tories think there's a chance they can get a hung parliament again or even win then a protest vote with the kippers looks far less 'safe' and disposeable than when the polls show they are getting beaten by some 10 points or so as they used to be.
That's what little Ed has to fear the most. The very impression that this is a two horse race again with everything to play for. Despite all the talk of core votes or 2010 lib dems the coalition is unprecedented in (recent) modern politics so the sheer amount of uncertainty and possible voter churn makes it perilous to call a core vote or high watermark number for any party.
We also have more than enough "events" to look forward to that will prove troubling for the coalition and indeed labour if Falkirk is any guide.
Mind you, I'm not sure whether they understand what "coffee" is...
Just digging a bigger hole.
Which of these would make the best Prime
Minister?
DC: 36(+3)
EdM: 19(-1)
NC: 6(-1)
DK: 39(-1)
NB; DC is favoured by every GB region over EdM
If you had to choose, which of the following
options would be best for Britain?
A majority Conservative government: 31(0)
Con/LD coalition: 7(0)
Lab/LD coalition: 12(0)
Majority Labour government: 28(-1)
DK: 21(0)