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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dissecting Theresa May’s popularity and you find out she has t

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dissecting Theresa May’s popularity and you find out she has the potential to be Gordon Brown Mark II

This week YouGov released some fascinating polling on Theresa May and her popularity. As we can see from the above chart it helps explains why Mrs May has such a colossal lead over Jeremy Corbyn on who would make the best Prime Minister and why if Jeremy Corbyn is Labour leader at the next general election, the 2020 general election is going to be the electoral equivalent of the Anglo-Zanzibar war.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Of course, Mrs May is gaining cos of old bonehead. That's politics.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    edited April 2017
    Second. Unlike Corbyn.

    May and her Tories can get away with being the blank canvas onto which everyone can paint their own individual vision of what Brexit looks like. That won't last; sooner or later she'll have to paint the picture, and inevitably there will be some who won't like it. That's when the local progress being made by the LibDems starts to translate into national ratings.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,133
    "So if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent coupled with a poorly handled Brexit negotiations or recession which is blamed on Mrs May and the Tories then Labour’s chances at the next election could improve significantly, after all on current boundaries, it only takes a swing of 0.88% to deny the Tories a majority."

    Three mighty "if's" in that paragraph, all evidently necessary to deny the Conservatives a majority. What is needed to provide Labour with one?
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Fishing said:

    "So if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent coupled with a poorly handled Brexit negotiations or recession which is blamed on Mrs May and the Tories then Labour’s chances at the next election could improve significantly, after all on current boundaries, it only takes a swing of 0.88% to deny the Tories a majority."

    Three mighty "if's" in that paragraph, all evidently necessary to deny the Conservatives a majority. What is needed to provide Labour with one?

    Especially when the EU is trying its hardest to make sure it carries the blame for any fiasco over the BrExit negotiations with all its talk of punishment beatings.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222
    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    Fishing said:

    "So if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent coupled with a poorly handled Brexit negotiations or recession which is blamed on Mrs May and the Tories then Labour’s chances at the next election could improve significantly, after all on current boundaries, it only takes a swing of 0.88% to deny the Tories a majority."

    Three mighty "if's" in that paragraph, all evidently necessary to deny the Conservatives a majority. What is needed to provide Labour with one?

    And assuming that the point where Miliband left off - before the Great Brexit Schism - is where Labour can skip back to in a jump. Easier said than done, particularly without any obvious talent or ideas.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If I were Theresa May I'd be very happy with this polling. She's Prime Minister, not a TV compère. She doesn't need to be laugh a minute or warm.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    I can't stand Phillips. I quite like Creasy, but as you say, she probably wouldn't be able to win a Labour leadership election.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2017
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    I can't stand Phillips. I quite like Creasy, but as you say, she probably wouldn't be able to win a Labour leadership election.
    Creasy at least has some vision for how the country should go:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/06/revitalised-labour-post-brexit-vision-homelessness-poverty-inequality

    Perhaps she also favours fluffy kittens, but the contrast in style with May would be marked.

    Philips is the genuine article, a brash working class Brummy with a waspish wit, she would be great on the front bench against some pompous stuffed shirt. A good campaigner too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    I can't stand Phillips. I quite like Creasy, but as you say, she probably wouldn't be able to win a Labour leadership election.
    Creasy at least has some vision for how the country should go:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/06/revitalised-labour-post-brexit-vision-homelessness-poverty-inequality

    Perhaps she also favours fluffy kittens, but the contrast in style with May would be marked.
    I've had money on Creasy for a while. The question is whether she really want it (or will, when the time comes).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    p.s. and Creasy's other weakness is that she has, rather unfairly given that there are others who have done more plotting, become something of a hate figure for the left, including a significant faction within her constituency.

    Of course that could end up being an advantage, depending on how things play out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    edited April 2017
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    I can't stand Phillips. I quite like Creasy, but as you say, she probably wouldn't be able to win a Labour leadership election.
    Interesting. I have Creasy down as being as much about spin as hinterland eg the use of meaningless 'interest rate' stats as a mainspring of the payday lender campaign. She will survive though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Good morning, my fellow knights of the round table.

    F1: wrote most of the pre-race article yesterday but was waiting for the markets. Will check them shortly and hopefully have it posted for your perusal today. In the meantime, there are literally some comments with betting ideas in the pre-qualifying article, and I did tip backing Vettel at 5 and hedging at evens yesterday:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/bahrain-pre-qualifying-2017.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    Dan hodges in the mail today claims tessie doesn't enjoy being PM & is going to see it through to a brexit deal and then retire.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    F1: ... there are still about 9 markets missing from Ladbrokes. Humbug!

    Also, Happy Zombie Jesus Day, everyone.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Urquhart, post-election, presumably?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Happy Easter one and all!

    Nice of Mr Eagles to write a fantasy paean to the Posh Boys.

    I'd exchange a handful of ex LD seats for the swathes of Midland and elsewhere Labour/Tory marginals that are going to fall at the next election anyday.....
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited April 2017

    Dan hodges in the mail today claims tessie doesn't enjoy being PM & is going to see it through to a brexit deal and then retire.

    Dan Hodges, former GMB official, communications director for TfL under Ken, pro-immigration activist and general tribune of the people, has an inside track on the inner thinkings of the Tory leadership, who knew it ;) (Mind you, he has been strongly anti-whistleblower, and anti-freespeech at times, so maybe he and Tessie do get along!)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636
    Mortimer said:

    Happy Easter one and all!

    Nice of Mr Eagles to write a fantasy paean to the Posh Boys.

    I'd exchange a handful of ex LD seats for the swathes of Midland and elsewhere Labour/Tory marginals that are going to fall at the next election anyday.....

    I think the problem is that the Tory MPs for Twickenham, Kingston, and Bath probably don't agree.
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    She has done nothing ever , an invisible politician who has reached the top by just being least bad of a buch of turkeys. She will be classed amongst the duffers when comparisons are done, more IDS or Hague than maggie.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915
    edited April 2017
    Happy Easter Malc.

    That was a very strange set of policies in the FPT polling.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/853292286804983808

    Will any of those actually raise any cash?

    1 is "ono we gotta position ourselves beyond the Tories", placing us pretty much at the top of the European minimum wage table. Effect on youth unemployment?
    2 might raise a couple of hundred million. Maybe.
    3 is an attack on aspiration / diversity, and if it forces some pupils out of the indy school sector will cost an nideterminate amount of money.
    4 looks set to catch higher interest rates.

    Strange man. Lots of signalling and no one watching.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited April 2017
    F1: doubt this applies to anyone, but if you're recording the Channel 4 coverage, just seen on Twitter it's no longer one big show but split into a preview, race itself, and review format.

    I remain perplexed by why the markets aren't up yet.

    Edited extra bit: on the other hand, I'm still quite sleepy, so perhaps it isn't an entirely bad thing.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    F1: doubt this applies to anyone, but if you're recording the Channel 4 coverage, just seen on Twitter it's no longer one big show but split into a preview, race itself, and review format.

    I remain perplexed by why the markets aren't up yet.

    Edited extra bit: on the other hand, I'm still quite sleepy, so perhaps it isn't an entirely bad thing.

    The markets are up, aren't they?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    MattW said:

    Happy Easter Malc.

    That was a very strange set of policies in the FPT polling.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/853292286804983808

    Will any of those actually raise any cash?

    1 is "ono we gotta position ourselves beyond the Tories", placing us pretty much at the top of the European minimum wage table. Effect on youth unemployment?
    2 might raise a couple of hundred million. Maybe.
    3 is an attack on aspiration / diversity, and if it forces some pupils out of the indy school sector will cost an nideterminate amount of money.
    4 looks set to catch higher interest rates.

    Strange man. Lots of signalling and no one watching.

    Same to you Matt hope you have a good one. It si indeed strange , Labour just seem to have lost the plot everywhere. Looks like next UK election will be to see who can promise the biggest bribes to the electorate.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. L, on Ladbrokes, 17 are. Normally there's around 26. Some (first lap leader springs to mind) aren't there yet. I'll wait a bit longer, but it annoys me to post a pre-race blog then find value has emerged.

    Especially when the race is very hard to predict.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,755
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    Happy Easter Malc.

    That was a very strange set of policies in the FPT polling.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/853292286804983808

    Will any of those actually raise any cash?

    1 is "ono we gotta position ourselves beyond the Tories", placing us pretty much at the top of the European minimum wage table. Effect on youth unemployment?
    2 might raise a couple of hundred million. Maybe.
    3 is an attack on aspiration / diversity, and if it forces some pupils out of the indy school sector will cost an nideterminate amount of money.
    4 looks set to catch higher interest rates.

    Strange man. Lots of signalling and no one watching.

    Same to you Matt hope you have a good one. It si indeed strange , Labour just seem to have lost the plot everywhere. Looks like next UK election will be to see who can promise the biggest bribes to the electorate.
    A reversion to the norm of every election since 1931 after the aberration of 2010 and to a lesser extent 2015?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    careful now, you will upset Jonathan.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    there is no current Messiah for Labour, the best they can hope for is to deny the Tories a majority, and that's going to be a very hard road. With Corbyn as leader, its impossible
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    careful now, you will upset Jonathan.
    Not at all. It's a beautiful Easter Sunday. Tories venting their spleen about Brown is hardly news, nor capable of spoiling that. If anything it's quite sweet how riled up they still get..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Jonathan, not just Evil Tories. Remember the 2015 mauling of Miliband in Leeds over the economy?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    Mr. Jonathan, not just Evil Tories. Remember the 2015 mauling of Miliband in Leeds over the economy?

    If I get what you're referring to. That was easily avoided. More Edms inability to think on his feet.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    She has done nothing ever , an invisible politician who has reached the top by just being least bad of a buch of turkeys. She will be classed amongst the duffers when comparisons are done, more IDS or Hague than maggie.

    Huge failure on immigration at the Home Office.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Interesting set of data. If the tide starts going out it could go out a long way as May's popularity is a mile wide and a centimetre deep.

    What surprised me is the stat on decisiveness as I'd say she's anything but.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited April 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    careful now, you will upset Jonathan.
    Not at all. It's a beautiful Easter Sunday. Tories venting their spleen about Brown is hardly news, nor capable of spoiling that. If anything it's quite sweet how riled up they still get..
    its because we are paying for his incompetence and will be for the nest 50yrs or so, everyone's standard of living and expectations in retirement have been screwed, especially pensions, his delusion in telling everyone he had abolished boom and bust, and emptying the coffers to make it as difficult as possible for the incoming PM. the list of his other mistakes are endless

    Brown is a shit of epic proportions, your belief in him is delusional.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    The battle with the Trots will have to be over before Creasy gets anywhere in the Labour party.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154

    there is no current Messiah for Labour, the best they can hope for is to deny the Tories a majority, and that's going to be a very hard road. With Corbyn as leader, its impossible

    Corbyn at least offers the prospect of their being crucified?

    Sorry.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited April 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    careful now, you will upset Jonathan.
    Not at all. It's a beautiful Easter Sunday. Tories venting their spleen about Brown is hardly news, nor capable of spoiling that. If anything it's quite sweet how riled up they still get..
    Unlike some poor north Korean engineers who will be lucky if they see another easter after the failed missile launch!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,296
    Chuka does some useful opposition research:

    https://twitter.com/chukaumunna/status/853518558877425665
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    malcolmg said:

    She has done nothing ever , an invisible politician who has reached the top by just being least bad of a buch of turkeys. She will be classed amongst the duffers when comparisons are done, more IDS or Hague than maggie.

    At least when Home Sec she had non-EU immigration under control:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    The battle with the Trots will have to be over before Creasy gets anywhere in the Labour party.

    What Trots.

    Do you mean lifelong Socialists who were marginalised by Labours drift right from its roots.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited April 2017
    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    "So if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent coupled with a poorly handled Brexit negotiations or recession which is blamed on Mrs May and the Tories then Labour’s chances at the next election could improve significantly, after all on current boundaries, it only takes a swing of 0.88% to deny the Tories a majority."

    Three mighty "if's" in that paragraph, all evidently necessary to deny the Conservatives a majority. What is needed to provide Labour with one?

    And assuming that the point where Miliband left off - before the Great Brexit Schism - is where Labour can skip back to in a jump. Easier said than done, particularly without any obvious talent or ideas.

    Theresa May is the living proof that talent and ideas are not pre-requisites for high office, as is almost the entire cabinet. All you have to be is better than the alternative.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited April 2017
    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    The battle with the Trots will have to be over before Creasy gets anywhere in the Labour party.

    What Trots.

    Do you mean lifelong Socialists who were marginalised by Labours drift right from its roots.

    Nah - I mean Trots. The kind that have spent Labour's entire existence trying to turn it into something it was never meant to be.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    It's far from impossible.
    It is quite conceivable (though clearly not inevitable) that the Brexit negotiations go all scorched earth on both sides, to everyone's disbenefit. A similar legacy to the Brownian decade's misery would leave her regarded somewhere around Brown levels.
    Your views of Brown's character, with which I have some sympathy, are irrelevant to this and its effect on her reputation. After all, she is something of a blank slate still, on which it would be easy to paint an ugly picture.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,960

    Interesting set of data. If the tide starts going out it could go out a long way as May's popularity is a mile wide and a centimetre deep.

    What surprised me is the stat on decisiveness as I'd say she's anything but.

    I used to think she was decisive, now I'm not so sure.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Morning and a happy Easter to all.

    Lots of ifs, buts and maybes in that article. On balance I say there’s more potential for TSE to become Don Brind Mark II. :lol:
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    The battle with the Trots will have to be over before Creasy gets anywhere in the Labour party.

    What Trots.

    Do you mean lifelong Socialists who were marginalised by Labours drift right from its roots.

    Nah - I mean Trots. The kind that have spent Labour's entire existence trying to turn it into something it was never meant to be.

    Agreed.

    The Labour of Clem wouldn't have had any truck with Trots. Not least because they were much brighter and sharper...
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,960

    Morning and a happy Easter to all.

    Lots of ifs, buts and maybes in that article. On balance I say there’s more potential for TSE to become Don Brind Mark II. :lol:

    The conclusions are essentially:
    - If Theresa May does well/badly as PM, she'll be remembered as a good/bad PM.
    - Her chances of success are contingent on Labour's leader.
    Which is not to say there isn't some interesting stuff in there anyway.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.

    "Computer technology likely to be susceptible to malicious attacks" is not a claim which rocks my world view to its foundations. Where there's malware there is as a rule antimalware.

    The real nonsense about AIs is talked by that ineffably silly Bostrom man who thinks the universe is going to be destroyed by AIs in the grip of "perverse instantiation": you have a paperclip factory, you buy an AI and make it CEO, it oversteps its brief and transforms all the matter in the universe into paperclips. This looks like a realistic idea for about 3 seconds till you realise the number of reasons why it won't happen. For starters, the thing is by definition intelligent, so you give it the instruction "don't do any of that perverse instantiation shit" and it understands because it's intelligent, and obeys because it's a computer. And you write its objectives a bit more intelligently than "make paperclips" to say e.g. maximise happiness for the employees and shareholders of Paperclipco, and being as how it's intelligent it realises that paperclips need customers for whom someone has to make paper for paperclips to be useful, and shareholders won't be happy if they themselves have been paperclipized. Plus if you read enough science fiction in your teenage years you know to program it at an unhackable level with the 3 Laws of Robotics. Silly man.

    Happy Easter.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,155
    Not often the staunch Yoonetariat has a go at the TRuthy party.

    https://twitter.com/Theuniondivvie/status/853512154279968768
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    edited April 2017
    Mrs May still has a comfortable lead 10 months into her premiership unlike Brown and she represents the views of the public on the key issue of the day, Brexit. A poll last month also had 47% of voters comparing her most closely to Thatcher of former recent PMs and just 11% to Brown.
    Of course had Brown taken over 6 years into a Labour government and replaced Blair over Iraq as May replaced Cameron 6 years into a Tory government over Brexit he would have comfortably led IDS and beaten Howard in 2005 and probably had a better reputation, much as May comfortably leads Corbyn and will almost certainly beat Labour in 2020 whoever leads them
    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/852055843164082176
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212

    Mr. L, on Ladbrokes, 17 are. Normally there's around 26. Some (first lap leader springs to mind) aren't there yet. I'll wait a bit longer, but it annoys me to post a pre-race blog then find value has emerged.

    Especially when the race is very hard to predict.

    Morning, Mr.D.
    Agree that it's not an easy call, as making a good start (which is something of a lottery at the best of times) is of oversized importance here. A long run to the first turn means a bad start can get you swallowed by the following pack.
    While it's quite possible to overtake, it's not the easiest track to do so, and tyre wear might be critical, as Pirelli say a one-stop race is marginal.
    All this gives Bottas an excellent chance for his first win IF he starts well.

    Like you, I'll look for value, as a lot of different outcomes are possible.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,296
    RoyalBlue said:
    ORB had 55-45 before the referendum and they don't seem to have published the tables yet. The more interesting thing is their finding that people are more worried about the economy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    HYUFD said:

    Mrs May still has a comfortable lead 10 months into her premiership unlike Brown and she represents the views of the public on the key issue of the day, Brexit. A poll last month also had 47% of voters comparing her most closely to Thatcher of former recent PMs and just 11% to Brown.
    Of course had Brown taken over 6 years into a Labour government and replaced Blair over Iraq as May replaced Cameron 6 years into a Tory government over Brexit he would have comfortably led IDS and beaten Howard in 2005 and probably had a better reputation, much as May comfortably leads Corbyn and will almost certainly beat Labour in 2020 whoever leads them
    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/852055843164082176

    My thoughts exactly. Blair held on so long that when he finally stepped down and handed over, Brown had got a bit bitter and twisted.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,848
    Happy chocolate-egg don't mention Jesus day all!
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    edited April 2017
    I always sigh when I hear posters describe politicians as talented, musicians and sportsmen are talented, not politicians.

    I suspect when somebody says x or y is talented they really mean they agree with them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. B, varying tyre strategies may mix things up.

    A few more markets (not all) are up on Ladbrokes. Betfair's 3.6 on Hamilton to lead lap 1 is something I'm considering.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514

    Happy chocolate-egg don't mention Jesus day all!

    And don't advertise beer offers otherwise the vicar of springtival will be outraged.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. Urquhart, that was some bloody weird doublethink from the priest (Coles?). Mocking those annoyed by Easter being removed from mention of an egg hunt, then getting upset at a Good Friday advert from Tesco. Silly sausage.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,848
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    43 dead in Syria today. But no posts here on PB. The "wrong" people died. And Jabhat-Al-Nusra are now our allies !

    50 people die in Syria every day, don't they? Every one a horror, every one a sadness. But it's a civil war. They are notoriously nasty. What should we do? Bomb them like Trump?

    I say: Leave Well Alone, and maybe hope Assad wins. As the least worst of several deeply evil options.
    President Assad is actually the only secular leader left.
    I hope Assad wins, even though he is an evil c*nt. The alternatives, for us, and the Syrians, are still worse, remarkably.

    Trump is a twat. Putin is shrewd.

    I don't think the Optometrist and his fragrant wife are evil. Certainly he had nothing to do with the latest chemical attack, just like the others - there hasn't even been a pretense of an enquiry for that reason.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Ishmael_Z said:

    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.

    "Computer technology likely to be susceptible to malicious attacks" is not a claim which rocks my world view to its foundations. Where there's malware there is as a rule antimalware.

    The real nonsense about AIs is talked by that ineffably silly Bostrom man who thinks the universe is going to be destroyed by AIs in the grip of "perverse instantiation": you have a paperclip factory, you buy an AI and make it CEO, it oversteps its brief and transforms all the matter in the universe into paperclips. This looks like a realistic idea for about 3 seconds till you realise the number of reasons why it won't happen. For starters, the thing is by definition intelligent, so you give it the instruction "don't do any of that perverse instantiation shit" and it understands because it's intelligent, and obeys because it's a computer. And you write its objectives a bit more intelligently than "make paperclips" to say e.g. maximise happiness for the employees and shareholders of Paperclipco, and being as how it's intelligent it realises that paperclips need customers for whom someone has to make paper for paperclips to be useful, and shareholders won't be happy if they themselves have been paperclipized. Plus if you read enough science fiction in your teenage years you know to program it at an unhackable level with the 3 Laws of Robotics. Silly man.

    Happy Easter.
    But what if it starts thinking for itself, like Skynet, or the computer in I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. F, as I wrote in my blog on the Fermi Paradox/Great Filter, it's a very human thing to develop AI and autonomous killer robots at the same time :p
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.

    "Computer technology likely to be susceptible to malicious attacks" is not a claim which rocks my world view to its foundations. Where there's malware there is as a rule antimalware.

    The real nonsense about AIs is talked by that ineffably silly Bostrom man who thinks the universe is going to be destroyed by AIs in the grip of "perverse instantiation": you have a paperclip factory, you buy an AI and make it CEO, it oversteps its brief and transforms all the matter in the universe into paperclips. This looks like a realistic idea for about 3 seconds till you realise the number of reasons why it won't happen. For starters, the thing is by definition intelligent, so you give it the instruction "don't do any of that perverse instantiation shit" and it understands because it's intelligent, and obeys because it's a computer. And you write its objectives a bit more intelligently than "make paperclips" to say e.g. maximise happiness for the employees and shareholders of Paperclipco, and being as how it's intelligent it realises that paperclips need customers for whom someone has to make paper for paperclips to be useful, and shareholders won't be happy if they themselves have been paperclipized. Plus if you read enough science fiction in your teenage years you know to program it at an unhackable level with the 3 Laws of Robotics. Silly man.

    Happy Easter.
    But what if it starts thinking for itself, like Skynet, or the computer in I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream.
    It is already thinking for itself, that being the I part of AI. Skynet resulted from inept programming; it interpreted a non-hostile attempt to shut part of it down as hostile, because no one told its antimalware that attempts to shut it down by party X should be regarded as non-hostile (party X identifying itself by adequately secure password etc). I know notheeng of I have no mouth etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212

    Mr. B, varying tyre strategies may mix things up.

    A few more markets (not all) are up on Ladbrokes. Betfair's 3.6 on Hamilton to lead lap 1 is something I'm considering.

    Sounds about right, as who gets the best start is around 50/50 - and you then have to factor in the real possibility of Hamilton having an aggressive go at the first corner (as he previously did with Rosberg), Bottas, unlike Rosberg, holding his ground, and resultant collision.

    Also a Vettel blinder is not impossible, though Mercedes seem less prone to poor getaways this year.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    malcolmg said:

    She has done nothing ever , an invisible politician who has reached the top by just being least bad of a buch of turkeys. She will be classed amongst the duffers when comparisons are done, more IDS or Hague than maggie.

    Unlike you? Somebody that's barely recognised in their own living room.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited April 2017
    Mr. B, yeah, the Mercedes has been starting well, the Ferraris very slightly worse. And we can't rule out the possibility of Red Bull doing well in the race.

    It's really well set up for the race but damned hard to try and bet on. I may well end up sticking with the one tip.

    Not to mention Sainz's car looks very fast but also fragile.

    I think the best result would be if Ladbrokes actually paid out on the Giovinazzi not to be classified bet, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it happens :p

    Edited extra bit: weirdly, that's still available at evens. 99% to be rendered null and void, of course.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.

    "Computer technology likely to be susceptible to malicious attacks" is not a claim which rocks my world view to its foundations. Where there's malware there is as a rule antimalware.

    The real nonsense about AIs is talked by that ineffably silly Bostrom man who thinks the universe is going to be destroyed by AIs in the grip of "perverse instantiation": you have a paperclip factory, you buy an AI and make it CEO, it oversteps its brief and transforms all the matter in the universe into paperclips. This looks like a realistic idea for about 3 seconds till you realise the number of reasons why it won't happen. For starters, the thing is by definition intelligent, so you give it the instruction "don't do any of that perverse instantiation shit" and it understands because it's intelligent, and obeys because it's a computer. And you write its objectives a bit more intelligently than "make paperclips" to say e.g. maximise happiness for the employees and shareholders of Paperclipco, and being as how it's intelligent it realises that paperclips need customers for whom someone has to make paper for paperclips to be useful, and shareholders won't be happy if they themselves have been paperclipized. Plus if you read enough science fiction in your teenage years you know to program it at an unhackable level with the 3 Laws of Robotics. Silly man.

    Happy Easter.
    But what if it starts thinking for itself, like Skynet, or the computer in I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream.
    It is already thinking for itself, that being the I part of AI. Skynet resulted from inept programming; it interpreted a non-hostile attempt to shut part of it down as hostile, because no one told its antimalware that attempts to shut it down by party X should be regarded as non-hostile (party X identifying itself by adequately secure password etc). I know notheeng of I have no mouth etc.
    The latter enjoyed torturing people.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    edited April 2017
    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    saddened said:

    malcolmg said:

    She has done nothing ever , an invisible politician who has reached the top by just being least bad of a buch of turkeys. She will be classed amongst the duffers when comparisons are done, more IDS or Hague than maggie.

    Unlike you? Somebody that's barely recognised in their own living room.
    For better or worse, malcolm is pretty recognisable. For instance, were he to post under another handle, I doubt he'd fool many of us.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Amazingly though the rich elite prosper regardless
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    "I don't think the Optometrist and his fragrant wife are evil. Certainly he had nothing to do with the latest chemical attack, just like the others - there hasn't even been a pretense of an enquiry for that reason. "

    Surprisingly, Jabhat Al Nusra, son of Al Qaeda, gets a pass every time.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    For those like seanT who think AI is going to take all the jobs in the very near future....

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170410-how-to-fool-artificial-intelligence

    It is why the term machine learning is a more accurate terminology for a lot of this tech as there is very little of what most people would think of as intelligence.

    "Computer technology likely to be susceptible to malicious attacks" is not a claim which rocks my world view to its foundations. Where there's malware there is as a rule antimalware.

    The real nonsense about AIs is talked by that ineffably silly Bostrom man who thinks the universe is going to be destroyed by AIs in the grip of "perverse instantiation": you have a paperclip factory, you buy an AI and make it CEO, it oversteps its brief and transforms all the matter in the universe into paperclips. This looks like a realistic idea for about 3 seconds till you realise the number of reasons why it won't happen. For starters, the thing is by definition intelligent, so you give it the instruction "don't do any of that perverse instantiation shit" and it understands because it's intelligent, and obeys because it's a computer. And you write its objectives a bit more intelligently than "make paperclips" to say e.g. maximise happiness for the employees and shareholders of Paperclipco, and being as how it's intelligent it realises that paperclips need customers for whom someone has to make paper for paperclips to be useful, and shareholders won't be happy if they themselves have been paperclipized. Plus if you read enough science fiction in your teenage years you know to program it at an unhackable level with the 3 Laws of Robotics. Silly man.

    Happy Easter.
    But what if it starts thinking for itself, like Skynet, or the computer in I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream.
    It is already thinking for itself, that being the I part of AI. Skynet resulted from inept programming; it interpreted a non-hostile attempt to shut part of it down as hostile, because no one told its antimalware that attempts to shut it down by party X should be regarded as non-hostile (party X identifying itself by adequately secure password etc). I know notheeng of I have no mouth etc.
    The latter enjoyed torturing people.
    Attributing enjoyment to a computer is very, very problematic.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    Yes but mainly for bankers and rich people
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Depends what you mean by socialism ? All the Labour governments we have had in this country have been Social democratic from the Social reformism tradition of thought.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    surbiton said:

    "I don't think the Optometrist and his fragrant wife are evil. Certainly he had nothing to do with the latest chemical attack, just like the others - there hasn't even been a pretense of an enquiry for that reason. "

    Surprisingly, Jabhat Al Nusra, son of Al Qaeda, gets a pass every time.

    What a terrible place to be for an ordinary citizen.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    ...if Labour do come to their senses and replace the electoral liability that is Jeremy Corbyn with someone more popular & competent...

    Who is this person? Don't forget, before Corbynism swept the nation the Labour Party, the other contenders for the leadership weren't exactly stellar performers.

    Likeable Labour MP's are not very thick on the ground, and likeability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Jess Phillips is great (I really enjoyed her recent book) but I can see why others do not. Stella Creasy has real human warmth that would contrast well with Theresa May. Stella also has a very safe seat, which with the polling may be essential for any replacement. She did good work over payday lenders too. She may be a bit too soft for the nessecary battle with the Trots though.

    I can't stand Phillips. I quite like Creasy, but as you say, she probably wouldn't be able to win a Labour leadership election.
    Creasy at least has some vision for how the country should go:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/06/revitalised-labour-post-brexit-vision-homelessness-poverty-inequality

    Perhaps she also favours fluffy kittens, but the contrast in style with May would be marked.

    Philips is the genuine article, a brash working class Brummy with a waspish wit, she would be great on the front bench against some pompous stuffed shirt. A good campaigner too.
    Phillips is an unapologetic misandryst.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Mr. F, as I wrote in my blog on the Fermi Paradox/Great Filter, it's a very human thing to develop AI and autonomous killer robots at the same time :p

    I suppose we should be grateful that computers just stop functioning from time to time.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,960
    Yorkcity said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Depends what you mean by socialism ? All the Labour governments we have had in this country have been Social democratic from the Social reformism tradition of thought.
    The major commanding heights of the economy were nationalised by Attlee.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    Mr. F, "Kill all humans! Kill all- error. Murderware 1.5 requires a Windows update. Would you like to install now?"
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Most of Western Europe.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    tlg86 said:

    But is her popularity down to Mrs May not being Jeremy Corbyn?

    No, I think her popularity is down to not being David Cameron or George Osborne.

    This.

    And that is what the Osborne cheerleaders are bitter about.

    It should be remembered that Cameron and Osborne lost the 2016 local elections to Corbyn:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2016

    Beaten by Jeremy Corbyn - how crap is that !!!


  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Most of Western Europe.
    Hilarious
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Lehmann Brothers collapsed, AIG had to be bailed out. General Motors got help from TARP, a $700bn help program, the Irish banks had to be bailed out with a €76bn rescue package. UBS, the Post Office bank in Germany and many, many others across the OECD. 22 out of 24 countries suffered recession.

    It was all the fault of the Labour Party !
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Not often the staunch Yoonetariat has a go at the TRuthy party.

    https://twitter.com/Theuniondivvie/status/853512154279968768

    As the saying goes ones getting one racist candidate advocating the kid napping of the first minister is unfortunate, to get 7 is a narrative the papers can sink their teeth into.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    ' With Sir Lynton Crosby’s polling indicating Mrs May would undo David Cameron’s hard work in obliterating the Liberal Democrats in the South West '

    Has anyone seen this mystery polling which is contradicted by the opinion polls ?

    Of course there's no reason why a LibDem revival wouldn't have occurred if Cameron was still PM - in fact judging by the 2016 local elections it had already happened while Cameron was PM.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Mr. F, "Kill all humans! Kill all- error. Murderware 1.5 requires a Windows update. Would you like to install now?"

    Or else you'd see that bloody wheel turning endlessly, followed by "Sorry. That page is not recognised."
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Amongst the happiest and most prosperous countries in the world are the Scandinavian countries where the tax take is about 45% of the GDP.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    surbiton said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Lehmann Brothers collapsed, AIG had to be bailed out. General Motors got help from TARP, a $700bn help program, the Irish banks had to be bailed out with a €76bn rescue package. UBS, the Post Office bank in Germany and many, many others across the OECD. 22 out of 24 countries suffered recession.

    It was all the fault of the Labour Party !
    Let's never forget that the bloke who ended boom and bust never saw the iceberg ahead of him. You could argue that Brown killed the Labour Party, Corbyn is just the funeral director.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712

    surbiton said:

    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    It also occurred at a time a socialist pronounced he had ended boom and bust.

    Most socialists are young and ideological, as they get older they change their minds.

    Of course I'm happy to hear examples of a prosperous, peaceful, happy socialist state.
    Lehmann Brothers collapsed, AIG had to be bailed out. General Motors got help from TARP, a $700bn help program, the Irish banks had to be bailed out with a €76bn rescue package. UBS, the Post Office bank in Germany and many, many others across the OECD. 22 out of 24 countries suffered recession.

    It was all the fault of the Labour Party !
    Let's never forget that the bloke who ended boom and bust never saw the iceberg ahead of him. You could argue that Brown killed the Labour Party, Corbyn is just the funeral director.
    The chap who did see it lost his seat a couple of elections later.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803

    HYUFD said:

    Mrs May still has a comfortable lead 10 months into her premiership unlike Brown and she represents the views of the public on the key issue of the day, Brexit. A poll last month also had 47% of voters comparing her most closely to Thatcher of former recent PMs and just 11% to Brown.
    Of course had Brown taken over 6 years into a Labour government and replaced Blair over Iraq as May replaced Cameron 6 years into a Tory government over Brexit he would have comfortably led IDS and beaten Howard in 2005 and probably had a better reputation, much as May comfortably leads Corbyn and will almost certainly beat Labour in 2020 whoever leads them
    https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/852055843164082176

    My thoughts exactly. Blair held on so long that when he finally stepped down and handed over, Brown had got a bit bitter and twisted.
    Indeed.

    Though I suspect Brown was already bitter and twisted with Blair for getting the leadership in 1995.

    I wonder how history would have been different if Brown had challenged John Smith for the leadership in 1992. He would have lost but would have been confirmed as the natural successor to John Smith and would have had a good chance of becoming leader upon his death.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Jonathan said:

    BigRich said:

    All the talk about Corbyn is irrelevant, after decades of experimenting with socialism in its various guises around the world its been proven not to work - the money always runs out.

    Only the young and impressionable are left clinging to the raft.

    Absolutely, but each time its different, each time we are tolled that socialism done this new way, which normally means with a new 'leader' will be different. but it never is.
    Hmmm. Let's not forget that last time the money ran out it was due to casino capitalism. And government intervention saved the economy.

    Is that a jock? Gordon Brown re-wrote the roles under which banks operate and created the FSA, all these regulations became an ideal breeding ground for crony capitalism, limited competition and massive profits and bonuses for the banksters.

    For a while this was fine for the government as the profits pushed up the tax take allowing brown to spend even more.

    But these distortions can last long term, and it didn't, the man who clamed to have abolished 'boom and bust' brought started the biggest bust in 80 years.

    And government don't 'save the economy', the next generation of taxpayers, have been en-debt, to cover up the mistakes of the past.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Jonathan said:

    Fat_Steve said:

    Morning
    I think the "May could be the next Gordon Brown" comparison ignores the specifics of the one-off awfulness of Gordon Brown. The sociopathic quality of his narcissism, deceit, and self-delusion.

    May will be "found out" in various ways in the years to come. Any PM is, as there is no hiding place. She may possibly end her political career with a poor reputation. But she will not be the next Gordon Brown.

    careful now, you will upset Jonathan.
    Not at all. It's a beautiful Easter Sunday. Tories venting their spleen about Brown is hardly news, nor capable of spoiling that. If anything it's quite sweet how riled up they still get..
    We get riled at Brown because he fucked the country over. If you can't get riled at that as a reason....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    And we get riled at people who are apologists for people who fucked the country over. The Labour Party.
This discussion has been closed.