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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory Keogh report offensive appears to have had no impact on the “best party on NHS” ratings
One of the big apparent “wins” for the Tories before they broke up for the summer recess was their response on the Keogh report on hospital failings which had happened on Labour’s watch. This it was hoped would help the party eat into the traditional LAB lead that they have on the NHS.
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Now we have the 111 shambles - made worse by the fact the previous service was working.
Crosby got it wrong here.
Sounds familiar! No wonder the Tories love it.
All the loved ones left behind by Labour would be encouraged to lay wreathes at the gates of their local hospitals.
It would be an opportunity to celebrate the legacy of the Olympic Stadium. Danny Boyle could compete with Kim Fat Wun by choreographing une grande danse macabre of mortuary porters..
That is the least of my worries, tim.
I first have to get moderator to understand the satire.
They've broken the Sacred Cow status of the NHS and that's crucial - no public service should be a religion nor its staff exempt from criticism because they're all celestial beings [managers of course are all evil heartless Tories with clipboards].
It's takes a long time to turnaround a supertanker.
"The NHS employs more than 1.7m people. Of those, just under half are clinically qualified, including, 39,780 general practitioners (GPs), 370,327 nurses, 18,687 ambulance staff and 105,711 hospital and community health service (HCHS) medical and dental staff.
Only the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, the Wal-Mart supermarket chain and the Indian Railways directly employ more people.
The NHS in England is the biggest part of the system by far, catering to a population of 53m and employing more than 1.35m people. The NHS in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland employs 153,427; 84,817 and 78,000 people respectively.
The NHS deals with over 1 million patients every 36 hours." Source - http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx
I object to being back translated as "Eberi", dugarbandier, especially when "Roger" comes out clean.
It offends my sense of decorum. Can you supply a Hiragana version?
People are becoming a bit more polarised and interested as the election creeps closer - polls on "who is best on X?" are tending to get fewer "don't knows". The nearly even split on the immigration vans is interesting. In theory there is nothing wrong with urging illegal immigrants to go back, so I'm not surprised there is a slim majority for it, but it's having the same sort of effect as Michael Howard's campaign - people agreed with much of what he said, but thought less of him all the same. I wonder if supporters would like it extended to other offences - e.g. vans going round Belgravia with the sign "Tax avoiders - pay up or go to prison".
As then, so now: the NHS will not be a key election factor in 2015
And if the NHS is a religion - it has many more followers than the Tory cult of privatisation.
Mr. Smithson, I thought there was no evidence such plain packaging had an impact, beyond assisting the black market?
Appears that many are singing from the party political hymn sheets this morning.
I am aware that the Keogh attacks led to a big internal debate at a very high level within the Tory party and that there were many concerns about moving into an area where the Tories cannot win.
Now is this because only saints and angels work/are paid for by taxpayers or because one became a religion?
"Hark the overweight angels drink tea"
There are no great surprises here either:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97cb6af2-f862-11e2-b4c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2aQDbZUD0
The day he retires on his enormous pension will be a sad day.
Didn't someone recently publish the findings of the 'who best for the NHS' polls for the last 12 months, perhaps longer. My recollection - might be wrong - is that the Tory 12% deficit is at the lower end of the range.
Complacent much?
Many of them are the same people who were trumpeting double and triple dip recession claptrap for 3 years, and that no change on Europe was possible.
It's unfair, but it seems to be politics. In the same way, EdM might be the greatest potential PM ever, but he doesn't look or sound right. That could be why Labour's ratings will rise over the summer if he stays safely out of the way.
Is mentioning Toxic Tories inversely proportionate to what the public actually say?
It appears so.
It offends my sense of decorum. Can you supply a Hiragana version?
sorry, some names are just easier than others. vs and bs are interchangeable, as are ls and rs.
I could have given you Aberi, but thought your A sounds should be a long vowel? in which case e- would be closer.
Anyway, Hiragana: えーべり
Today was supposed to be about the immigration car results from Yougov and the NHS survey which by the time people got up to work this morning was overtaken by "Nurses are being forced to “ration” care due to low staffing levels in NHS hospitals". Now the words Nurses, rationing and low staffing levels do not play well with swing voters. Someone keeps playing a dud at Conservative HQ and losing control of the headlines.
http://www.politicshome.com/
Con lead today (change vs Dec 2011)
NHS: -12 (+3)
Asylum/Immigration: +12 (-1)
Law & Order: +14 (-3)
Education: -4 (-1)
Tax: +3 (+3)
Unemployment: -6 (+5)
Economy: +5 (+1)
Voters do not pay the attention to these passing stories that we do - but the idea that Labour should have a 'free pass' on the NHS is risible - much though their supporters would prefer it that way.....
Like the Co-op puritanism, it seems that an issue gets more airtime if it's deemed to be sexist against women, even if the issue is wider than that and the other side of the coin (womens' mags having scantily clad ladies or magazines with shirtless men, or women-only golf clubs) can be entirely ignored.
It's almost hilariously ironic that people (rightly) opposed to sexism often close their eyes when it's against men.
In terms of branding - which is essentially what we're discussing, it takes a total horror story and an absence of competitors land grabbing to shift the market.
If we take Perrier and its benzene crisis - it was destroyed and never recovered despite the whole market exploding.
But Coke had its own similar horrors and survived unscathed.
The very peculiar behaviour on Twitter is remarkable. I'm usually polite and never ever suggest violence but have been on the wrong end of OTT abuse from Lefties - and most think I'm a bloke.
I assume they're all about 14yrs old and virgins since I can't imagine what else all their angst and hormones are playing at.
On September 13th 2010 the Tories had a 3% lead on the NHS with YouGov
ONS @statisticsONS
77% rated life satisfaction at 7 or more out of 10 in 2012/13, up 1.2% points on previous year bit.ly/14dMIWj #wellbeing #ONS
ONS @statisticsONS
21% rated anxiety at 6 or more out of 10 in 2012/13, down 0.9% points on previous year bit.ly/14dMIWj #wellbeing #ONS
As Danny Boyle so cleverly showed the NHS is close to a religion. Something most of us admire and something which makes us feel good about ourselves. Immigration by contrast is just an irritant.
How proud would we have felt if Danny Boyle had paraded the Olympic Stadium with the Tory vans saying "Immigrants go Home"? My guess is we'd all have felt a shiver of shame.
Put it another way. If Labour had screwed up immigration they might have lost a couple of pecentage points. If the Tories screw up health they lose the election big time.
Any takers?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d4ccf772-f83a-11e2-b4c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2aW59anyH
"London has not flourished because of favourable treatment by the national political class. If anything, it has been short-changed by successive administrations. The government’s alacrity in commissioning the high-speed rail extension makes its procrastination over London’s airport capacity look even more complacent."
"Politicians should be humble enough to acknowledge the limits of what they can do about ingrained regional inequalities. They should also be brave enough to scrutinise the idea of balancing from first principles. The state owes its ultimate duty to people, not places. It must provide a national framework in which economic growth can take place: security, education, tax rates, regulations, and so on. If that growth ends up occurring disproportionately in one part of the country, it is not obvious that this is inherently bad, so long as people are free to move there. Workers migrate from poor parts of the north to rich parts of the north (of which there are many, it is easy to forget) without this being lamented as something governments must fix. Why is labour mobility from north to south any worse?"
"London and the southeast is not home to a privileged few but to 16m people, more than a quarter of the British population. That’s some corner."
Labour care about the NHS workers their rights and pensions and preserving the status quo whatever the cost.
That's what it boils down to - when voters see that the status quo isn't what Labour would like them to think it is - well we'll see.
Labour did not match this pledge at the 2010 election and have not done so since.
The Health budget is by far the largest category of government spending accounting for one in seven of all pounds spent.
Cameron's ring-fencing of the health budget was brave in a climate of gobal fiscal consolidation and very few other countries have followed his path. See for example the OECD on ways in which member countries are reducing expenditure:
About 50% of participating countries identified health savings as one of the main consolidation sources. These measures constitute a major share of expenditure savings in all countries with an IMF/EU programme: Greece, Ireland and Portugal. For example, Portugal plans to reduce expenditure in the health system, especially in the areas of pharmaceuticals, user fees, public health systems and through hospital restructuring. The savings on health expenditures will amount to as much as 1% of GDP in Ireland and Portugal. Belgium and Spain also substantially increased their savings target in the health area, up to 1% and 0.7% of GDP respectively [and on an on for other countries]
If holding spending level in real terms was the top line pledge, raising productivity, retargetting resource to front line operations, improving value and putting the patient's interest first were at the core of the Lansley reforms.
The 111 events do not indicate that Lansley's chickens are coming home to roost: they are one the first of many golden eggs being laid. They demonstrate exactly how decentralisation and localisation, competition, cost engineering, patient focus and careful management of resources will improve NHS productivity and performance.
Support: +6
"Stupid & Offensive" : -8
Racist: -30
Poor taste but necessary: -11
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fjbakrwrnl/YouGov-Sun-results-130729-Immigration-Van.pdf
Only clear conclusion is that its not racist - last question poorly phrased - would have been better split as we don't know whether respondents think its poor taste or necessary.....or neither....
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/30/uk-exports-refinance-5bn_n_3671424.html?1375160555
'Touch it and you die'
Apols if this has already been answered, only dipping in for a few minutes as at work.
Has there ever been any polling to contradict that emphatic statement? Oh
Cannot win, actually means hope they won't win...
What's a lot more depressing is that in over 2000 years politicians have not learned from the Hippocratic Oath: First Do No Harm. In those circumstances, it's hardly surprising that the public is suspicious of their bright ideas.
(*) I must stop channelling Tim ;-)
Almost two-thirds of patients "extremely likely" to recommend A&E services in England to friends and relatives http://itv.co/1bDQpHs
That's another Tory anti-NHS wheeze that didn't work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23468814
The law applies to everyone. If we have lots of illegal immigrants from very sunny places is neither here nor there. They have no right to be here and plenty of opportunity to be legal [as most immigrants are] or to claim asylum.
When its not acceptable to ask illegals to go home - what is the incentive for those who want to do it legally? None.
"shall i go to A and E?"
"nah, you'd be better stitching that y'self"
"ah, right you are.."
They Called Them Angels: American Military Nurses of World War II [Paperback]
So the nurses as angels metaphor is not confined to here, and has nothing to do with the NHS becoming a religion. It is possible that it has more to do with the origins of nursing in religion -- "sisters" would originally have been nuns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Housing_Allowance
Who'd believe a word you say on health after that?
Besides, I'm not sure I'm a Tory. It's just that I side with them when I care about the wellbeing of patients in the NHS first, and the NHS itself second.
So instead of deflecting, what do you think of the situation in NHS Wales?
We don't have the same issues at the DVLA or HMRC or IPA or anywhere else. It's a nonsense.
Well, both sides of this question are wrong.
Let us first establish the what the best part of the NHS is:
Health Care that is free and available pretty much on demand at the time of need. When waiting lists go sky rocketing upwards, it is failing. When the quality of the care is poor, it is failing. This leads to the following questions:
Why do we need a NHS to perform this service? Is there any part of this remit that can not be provided by a combination of other providers or by other means? Should the NHS be constrained by cost or have free reign regardless of cost?
In order to provide the treatments that are available in an increasingly technological industry (medicine), new facilities, training, techniques and equipment are constantly required. Best practice and evolution into new methodologies is a constant process. Is the NHS the best structure to provide this?
Are the core concepts on which the NHS is founded either applicable or relevant to the needs of patients and society today? Is the traditional GP with their surgery which is never open, available or bookable the best pathway into the system.
Should we still have our 'own' GP? Why aren't GP surgeries held in local health centres? Why are bookings required?
Why are A&E dealing with severe trauma and life threatening conditions as well as minor issues? Is that a good use of resources of space, staff, and equipment to combine these two areas requiring different skills and resources?
The NHS is in many ways trying to convert a system that was applicable to the life style, life expectancy, medical knowledge and expectations of the 1950s and 1960s into a 21st century operation.
Sometimes conversion is comfortable but inefficient where as a new model can fit the new needs far more fully in the long run. Be that run by HMG (ie NHS) or others (ie Private) is, to me irrelevant, so long as health care is free, available when required and high(er) quality.
As a nation, we have to agree the cost we are willing to pay for our healthcare, then the rest can fall into place.
'Put it another way. If Labour had screwed up immigration they might have lost a couple of pecentage points. If the Tories screw up health they lose the election big time.'
It's the economy stupid.
At least Labour has a lead on the no 4 issue for most voters,unlike the economy,immigration & race relations and unemployment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23501423
The following table from this month's Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2013 (PESA 2013) sets out the figures.
The data are £ bn in real terms (fixed at June 2013 values).
They show unequivocably that the 'ring fence' on health spending has been and is continuing to be maintained. [AME and TME not available for 2015-16 plans]
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-european-tide-has-turned-but-can-we-be-honest-about-it-8736596.html
It should read "Labour's attacks on the Tories over the NHS have had no effect".
I've heard it all now...
https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson/status/362138207221084160/photo/1
Is it cheaper to let people smoke, collect the taxes and pay for their lung cancer treatment or to let them live on costing the state more perhaps in the future.
Which option is best for the national accounts ?
Edit: I know that sounds very 'Yes Minister' but maybe it is time to check stuff such as this !
@itvnews
Almost two-thirds of patients "extremely likely" to recommend A&E services in England to friends and relatives http://itv.co/1bDQpHs
That's another Tory anti-NHS wheeze that didn't work.'
It's amazing when you get input from patients and not public sector unions.
I thought A&E was meant to be collapsing.
But on both I think even if you take a short-term polling hit by increasing the salience of an area where you're weak, it's worth getting the punches in when the opportunity arises. Parties don't need to be careful which issues get discussed until closer to the election. They'll all get an airing at some point.
Count me shocked, Nick.
Health spending as originally defined in 2010 is being maintained in real terms.
The change is to improve the management of care services not to save on spending. There is much greater churn within the health budgets which is more likely to alter the headline outcomes.
An additional employed carer needs a separate bedroom.
A member of a family who cares for a handicapped child already has a bedroom.
@TomBlenkinsop I'll eat my shorts if it is not declared illegal in its present form..... #NoBrainer.
Get out the salt n pepper 'Dr'.
The bigger issue is that medical technology is producing increasingly awesome, but expensive, ways to make people healthier who would otherwise have died or stayed sick. I'd generally be in favour of spending a bit more to pay for that stuff, but it would be an option to stick with the status quo.
Huzzah - it's like the Arab spring
Parliament can pretty much do what it likes.
Iain @Iain_33
@bernerlap @PlatoSays @YouGov @ICMResearch at the height of the poll tax Labour were 27 points clear but still managed to lose
Amazingly I think the immigration "go home" posters are working in the government's favour. A lot of people at work who have seen them think they are useful as they feel it makes being an illegal immigrant more difficult. I don't agree with this view personally, I think they make no difference, but the politics of them are sound.
It's an open goal unless you think the NHS is the property of Labour where they can call Tories all sorts of vile name with impunity.
Don't worry tim - test match starts Thursday - you can chillax a bit then.